IRC Logs for #crux Friday, 2007-08-24

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sepenmooOorning01:15
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namenloshi, i wanted to update dhcpcd, but somehow it wont work (seems that it can't find the function 'clock_gettime', but that's afaik a standart c-function). the output is here: http://sial.org/pbot/2705102:01
namenlosat my crux maching at home everything worked fine, but i don't know what should be the difference between them...02:02
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DarkNekroshi you all & good morning ;)02:02
tilmanmorning guys02:11
tilmannamenlos: mmh, it's definitely not a stdlib functin02:13
tilmannamenlos: man clock_gettime -- "most systems require the program be linked with the librt library to use these functions."02:14
tilmannamenlos: it's like that on this laptop (crux 2.3)02:15
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namenlostilman: and why did it work on my machine at home?02:22
tilmandunno02:22
namenlosLIBRT != ldd /bin/date 2>/dev/null | grep -q /librt.so && echo "-lrt" || exit 002:26
namenlosLIBRT ?= $(shell ldd /bin/date 2>/dev/null | grep -q /librt.so && echo "-lrt")02:26
namenlosthis might be the answer, because it doesn't print anything...02:27
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namenlosis it possible, that my ldd is broken? ldd `which vim` or ldd `which php` doesn't print anything04:01
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tilmannamenlos: step1: find out whether which is strange or whether ldd is strange ;p04:02
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namenlostilman: which works ;)04:05
tilmannamenlos: try ldd -v /usr/bin/vim04:06
tilmanand echo $? afterwards04:06
namenlostilman: was successfull (0)04:07
tilmano_O04:07
tilmannamenlos: that's weird04:07
namenlosah, you mean after the ldd?04:07
namenlosthen it is 2... got to research on that...04:07
namenlossorry for confusing you...04:07
tilmannp04:11
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Romsterhttp://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/08/24/0434259&from=rss06:28
tilmantreach: \o/06:34
Romsterwhen Windows 3.11 came out i still used MS-DOS alot more.06:38
treachDOS at was at least stable. :/06:42
Romsteryeah06:45
Romsterthen Winblows recked the stableness.06:45
treachnot to be an ass, but is "stableness" a real word? Sounds more like something connected to "stables" than stability..06:47
rxi_what about are you talking about .. vista is as stable as the rock of gibraltor :P06:47
treachnot..06:47
treachat least not from what I've seen.06:47
rxi_should be good once sp1 comes out06:47
treachha ha ha06:48
rxi_which is soon06:48
treach"It will be fixed in the next version"...06:48
rxi_works pretty reasonable for me06:48
treachthey've been pulling that bullshit since forever.06:48
rxi_most issues are 3rd party problems06:48
Romster'stable', eh i just added the 'ness', guess it arn't a word but your last sentance didn't sound right as in grammer06:49
treachrxi_: but actually we're talking about win3.11 and the stuff available at that time.06:49
treachand belive me, windows at that time was bad, incredibly bad.06:50
treacheven worse than today, and that says something..06:50
rxi_ahh06:50
Romster<treach> DOS at was at least stable. :/ <-> DOS was at least stable...06:50
rxi_i skipped most of 3.X06:50
treachall of us weren't so lucky.06:50
Romsteri got 3.11 for workgroups still :P06:51
treachso do I..06:51
treachwouldn't dream of putting it on something though.06:51
rxi_i had to work on a 3.1 box a while back .. took some memory jolting and googling to do it tho06:51
treachheh06:52
rxi_silly old people06:52
treach?06:52
rxi_old people not wanting to buy a new pc06:52
Romstertreach, i got a old 486 with MS-DOS 6.22 and Win3.11 on it :P06:52
treachah06:52
Romsteri havent' got it setup though, mainly DOS games.06:53
treachheh, I've thrown away my 486, bios died.06:53
rxi_Romster: i did that a while back but the gams done have the same shine as they used to :(06:53
treachIt was running slackware though. :)06:53
treach4.3 or so. :P06:54
Romsterrxi_, i like doing the ester egg thing i think it was the about help and hold down ctrl + shift + alt and double click on the window icon then ok then repeat that 3 times while keeping the keys pressed then you get the real credist of names of who programed it.06:54
treachno, wait. 3.4, I mean06:54
Romsterrxi_, ah06:54
RomsterVista is a joke needs at least 2GB of ram to run without swapinging too much.06:56
Romstereven win XP with 2GNB of ram had a page file and i'm like wtf.06:56
treachand a 1GHz cpu, just to idle without lagging. :P06:56
Romster2GB*06:56
treachwell, windows needs it's swapfile.06:57
Romsteryeah really.06:57
Romsterthats so fucked up.06:57
Romsterall the encryption has done that, encrypted memory video DRM bullshit.06:57
treachfor various stuff, not only swapping as such.06:57
Romsteroh and data mining i bet the NTFS has so many hidden areas that store crap that ya do and send it off to MS06:58
treachI bet you got a 2GB+ swapfile with XP because you hadn't turned off hibernation.06:58
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rxi_Romster: 1gb is enough06:58
Romsterrxi_, not for Vista it arn't is ok for win xp06:59
treach*isn't* ;)06:59
rxi_well depends on how much shit you put on06:59
rxi_i run 1gb on my notebook fine07:00
rxi_if you go and stick norton 360 and other such software you should expect you will need more07:00
Romsternorton ewww07:03
treach-/+ buffers/cache:         54        95707:03
treach:p07:03
treachyep, that's with X running. :)07:04
rxi_shame sophos end point is so expensive or id run it at home07:05
jjpkIn many ways Vista is a godsend for hardware manufacturers because you need to upgrade.07:17
jjpkWho knows, it is entirely possible they've settled this behind closed doors. ;)07:18
jjpkBig biz is capable of a lot.07:19
treachthe problem with that line of thought though, is that most doesn't need to upgrade, really - which Vistas abysmal salesfigures shows. :P07:21
treachVista is a turkey, and everyone knows it.07:22
rxi_we sell 1 xp to every 20 vista machines07:23
rxi_turkey being bad?07:23
treachyeah. I guess that's not an international expression. :)07:26
treachand, yeah, you might sell 20 new vista boxes on every xp, that still bad.07:27
treachbecause viritually NOBODY "upgrades".07:27
rxi_that was the same before vista came along07:28
Romsterwoot http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=67007:28
treachrxi_: mmh?07:28
rxi_people still bought new machines to replace their older boxes even before vista came out07:29
Romsterrxi_, when will you be shiping ReactOS ;P07:29
treachso?07:29
rxi_Romster: anytime you wanna place an order :P07:30
treachXP and especially win2000 was seen as progress, something you wanted to use, and lots of people/organizations upgraded to it from 9x/NT4.07:30
treachNot going to happen for Vista, and that's an god awful lot of boxes.07:31
rxi_it will happen just not tomorrow07:31
Romsterrxi_, hehe07:31
Romsterrxi_, seriously once ReactOS is stable i'm sure it'll replace Windows for the masses.07:31
treachno, it won't happen at all.07:31
Romsteri'l sure be doing it for clients.07:32
Romsteri'll*07:32
treachbusinesses will fight tooth and nail to keep their XP systems running, since Vista is so incompatible.07:32
jjpkI would be surprised IF M$ would only sit on its hands and do nothing.07:32
rxi_treach: so incompatible? i think you'd be suprised07:32
treachno.07:32
rxi_and xp was the same when it came out07:32
rxi_give it 12months and business uptake with pickup07:33
treachI have an example right here, we're running a program to manage electronic keys.07:33
treach-> does not work with vista.07:33
treachlot's and lots of stuff like that out there.07:33
rxi_sure not everything works but id say atleast 70% ive tried works07:34
rxi_either out of the box or with an update07:34
treachnot good enough for business.07:34
Romstertreach, yet, all the big software titles will alter for vista leaving the obsolete crap not compatable.07:34
rxi_treach: thats for each business to work out07:34
treachespecially when there's no real upside with using vista.07:34
treachrxi_: of course.07:35
rxi_besides its not microsofts fault things arent compatible07:35
treachare you kidding+07:35
treach?07:35
RomsterO_o07:35
rxi_betas and rtm's have been out for 12months now07:35
treachso?07:35
Romsterwhy couldn't MS keep windows on top of dos.07:35
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rxi_so its up to the 3rd parties to make their shit work07:35
treachthat has nothing to do with compatibility.07:35
Romsterinstead of intergratng it as one.07:35
treachyou've got compatibility backwards.07:36
jjpkThere was an article on Vista on the Finnish business magazine Kauppalehti stating that it was delayed mostly due to compatibility chaos.07:37
treachI've I've got an application running on your system, and you change it so my app no longer works, YOU broke compatibility.07:37
rxi_if some software breaks when you compile it with a new gcc version do you blame gcc?07:37
treachthat depends.07:37
jjpkSure you can blame gcc, THEY changed something. :D07:37
jjpkThe blame also falls on the devs of a certain piece of software for not keeping up.07:37
treachif it breaks because they decided to not follow the C standard, sure I can blame them.07:38
rxi_pricisly07:38
rxi_precisily*07:38
treachIf I coded like an idiot, it's my fault07:38
rxi_bah07:38
Romsterrxi_, nope ya jsut use a older gcc or patch it.07:38
jjpkIt cuts both ways.07:38
rxi_jjpk: to a degree .. if had been given the new version 6 months before it goes public its less on gcc07:39
treachanyway, gotta run, cya.07:39
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jjpkBeta software makes everyone uneasy because they are beta.07:39
jjpkSomething could change before it is finalized, etc etc etc.07:39
jjpkThe more complex something is, the higher the chances are of failure due to change.07:40
jjpkEven more so when it is not coordinated and communicated to everyone involved.07:40
rxi_sure07:40
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DarkNekrosgood weekend you all ;)10:15
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pedjahttp://www.thelocal.se/7869/20070712/17:39
pedja"The most difficult part of the whole project was installing Windows on Sigbritt's PC," said Jonsson."17:39
pedjaHeh17:39
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blerdanyone seen this error wiith nvidia before, http://rafb.net/p/iwdhgH55.html21:48
jaegerlooks like MTRR support is missing from the kernel21:49
blerdnah i have compiled mttr in with the kernel, but maybe i should just recompile and hope for the best21:50
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