IRC Logs for #crux Thursday, 2007-09-06

pitillogood morning00:41
nipuLhttp://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/09/06/2025910.htm00:52
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thowewhat wiki is crux.nu running?01:35
mike_kpmwiki01:43
thowecool01:49
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rehabdollhttp://lwn.net/Articles/248227/04:48
rehabdollawesome04:48
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sepenhi hi05:26
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thrice`hi sepen07:49
tilmanthrice`: guess what's out07:58
thrice`tilman: I saw :)07:58
rxitilman's homosexuality? :P07:59
tilmanrxi unfunnyness?08:00
rxii know your laughing on the inside08:00
tilmanyou're08:01
thrice`looks like the xorg site is getting hit a little bit08:03
rxishotdown by the spelling police08:03
tilmanD08:03
tilman:D08:03
jjpkDetective Tilman on duty.08:04
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tilmanwoo08:04
cptnhey08:04
thrice`hi cptn08:04
tilmanhey cptn08:05
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rugektilman: will the new xf86-video-ati driver provide tv-out support?08:31
tilmanrugek: tv=out support is in the randr-1.2 branch only08:31
tilmanwhich hasn't been released yet08:31
rugekgrml08:31
tilmanthat branch works nicely already btw08:31
tilmanfeel free to give it a try :)08:31
tilmanthough i didn't test tv-out support myself08:32
thrice`yeah, I saw no updated ati driver in general :(08:32
thrice`appears to still be at 6.6.308:32
tilmanactually, seems randr-1.2 has been merged into master08:33
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cptnrugek: did you manage to get httpup ports working?10:05
rugeknot yet10:33
cptnokay10:34
cptnhttp://crux.nu/files/core.httpup10:34
cptnjust adjust the version from 2.1 to 2.310:35
cptnworks for opt and contrib as well10:35
cptnand xorg10:35
cptnthe repositories are browsable at http://crux.nu/ports/crux-2.3/10:35
cptnthere are just no httpup files10:36
tilmanfdo is pretty unresponsive today :p10:37
jaegeryeah, I was trying to get hal tarballs warlier10:38
sepencptn, hi10:42
sepencptn, do you remember our conversation about qt4?10:42
sepenmay be qt4 should appear on the new release for the opt repo (imo)10:46
tilmansimone might be a better person to talk to :D10:46
sepenohh10:47
thrice`KDE can't compile against qt4, can it ?10:50
thrice`(KDE 3)10:50
tilmanno idea, but i think that opt/qt3 would stay10:52
jaegerman, bnbt's ugly10:58
jaegerbut I can probably make a style sheet for it10:58
jaegermuch better11:03
tilmanugh11:08
tilmani think i cannot push xorg-server 1.411:08
tilmanfake transparency is broken :(11:09
thrice`that seems like that'd be a weird one to screw up11:09
tilmanyeah11:10
tilmanreally strange11:10
tilmanit's working in aterm...11:20
thrice`but not in, urxvt?11:21
tilmanyep11:21
thrice`my psuedo trans has always been laggy with urxvt11:21
tilmanurxvt just gets the top-left most pixels11:21
tilmaninstead of the actual position11:21
cptnsepen: I remember it, yeah11:22
cptnsepen: I've already talked to Simone, and offered to lend a hand if he wants to add it to opt11:23
cptnsepen: so I assume it's only a matter of time11:23
sepenof course11:23
sepenif not we can put on it in the contrib repo11:24
tilmanthrice`: it's related to exa11:24
tilmanpushed11:27
sepencptn, another question,  imo I think useful to have your prt-get manual on crux.nu (Package management)11:31
sepenIm talking about http://jw.tks6.net/files/crux/prt-get_manual.html11:31
cptnsepen: no objections here11:32
cptnI'm happy to relicense it if needed11:33
sepenI'll happy if all ''core'' manuals appears like the openbsd faq http://openbsd.org/faq/index.html11:35
sepenI think their have a good centralized faq to starting learn about it11:35
sepenour documentation page also its good but I think the other is better (imho)ç11:36
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cptnthe same it probably true for the httpup manual11:38
sepenyeah Im surfing now your webspace11:39
sepenxD11:39
sepencptn, Im also a question about httpup11:41
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tilmanyou *have* a question11:45
jaegerok, the updated iso now works from a usb cdrom11:46
thrice`oops, almost missed a new xorg dep11:46
tilmanheh, i wanted to mention it11:46
tilmanyou'll need to install xorg-libpixman11:46
tilman:p11:46
thrice`you wanted me to fail :(11:46
tilmannooo11:47
thrice`everything seems to be going smoothly, with the exception of waiting in line for source11:47
tilmanmake sure you update inputproto before xorg-server11:51
tilmanalso before input-keyboard/mouse11:51
tilmanand remember to rebuild your video driver after everything's updated11:52
tilmanmaybe i should mail teh list11:52
thrice`:)11:52
tilmanthrice`: do you have dbus and hal installed?11:59
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thrice`no to both.  I was, however, considering building both with xfce12:01
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mxqhello13:01
mxqI've got one simple question.13:01
cptnshoot13:01
tilmanmxq: shoot13:01
tilmaneh.13:01
mxqis 25 crossover cable not too long to connect 2 pcs13:02
mxq?13:02
RedShift25 what?13:02
RedShift25 potatoes?13:02
mxqsorry 25 m13:02
mxqmeters13:02
RedShiftunless you are not using ethernet, then 25 will do just fine13:03
RedShiftethernet supports up to 100 meters13:03
RedShift(over copper)13:03
mxqto be sure: it means that if i have 25 m cable and stick it that to 2 network cards it will be just fine?13:05
RedShiftif it's crossover, yes13:05
mxqheh, thanx13:06
mxqthats good news, i thought that i bought too long cable13:06
mxqand sorry for my english13:07
treachwhy? we understood you, which is more than I can say sometimes for the native speakers.. :p13:09
mxqtreach: thanks, it is hard to write in english when you are thinking in your native language13:10
mxqbut im glad that you can understand me13:11
treachwell, as the germans say "übnung macht den Meister", so just keep it up. Looks good so far. ;)13:13
blerdeven if you spoke machine code, im pretty sure treach would still understand you ;)13:13
treachno way, it's waaay too long since I did any assembler... E713:13
treachnot to be mean, but.. "I am a question"... ;D13:15
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n0yd_Is there no possible way to install crux via chroot?16:06
treachare you kidding?16:07
n0yd_treach: I just took a look at the hadnbook, its not a listed method of install.16:07
n0yd_So no, I am not kidding.16:07
treachit pretty much *is* the install method..16:08
n0yd_Ok, so I can follow the install procedure basically, without the Crux install cd, using another live/cd etc?16:08
treachpretty much.16:09
n0yd_Basically, I wanted to install on a remote machine about 1500 miles away, it has a LFS live cd its boot up to atm.16:09
treachah.16:09
treachyou should probably have a look at the pkgadd man page16:10
n0yd_I was building a T2 system on it up til right now, but T2 has officially pissed me off, do to the idiocy of their system...16:10
treachMhh, I guess you're not refering to terminator 2..16:11
n0yd_http://www.t2-project.org16:11
treachah,16:11
treach"common linux distribution"..16:11
treachright.16:11
treachnever heard of it.16:11
n0yd_Their "handbook" is pretty useless, considering it doesn't mention any of it's actual features, as far as customization of your own distro.16:12
n0yd_By default it downloads and installs all possible packages, but it doesnt state that, and there is no way to easily select packages...16:12
treachwell, our handbook doesn't have much of that either16:12
treacha16:12
treachwell, we're a bit saner about that. :)16:13
n0yd_Yes, but I'm not looking to build a distro with crux.16:13
n0yd_aha16:13
n0yd_I already know what to expect of crux.16:13
treachgood.16:13
treachjust make sure you read the man page for prt-get, it's a tremendous help.16:13
n0yd_And the words "keep it simple" stood out as the best thing, considering I primarily use Arch. :)16:14
treachk.16:14
treachNever bothered with arch, I've used crux since 0.93 or something, never saw any reason to change that.16:14
n0yd_Does crux modify the kernel sources at all? Or are they vanilla?16:15
treachplain vanilla sauce. :)16:15
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n0yd_Ok good to know, cause I'll need to roll my own.  This box appears to have a Raid5 with murd... er I mean reiser4. :-P16:15
treachreiser is supported on the iso16:16
n0yd_Probably not reiser416:16
n0yd_It's not in the stock kernel src16:16
treach...probably not..16:16
n0yd_not a problem though, i can patch it easy enough16:17
treachn0yd_: btw, I suggest you get jaeger's updated iso.16:24
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treach-> http://jaeger.morpheus.net/linux/crux/files/updated-crux-iso/crux-2.3-latest.iso16:26
treachit's a bit different, but it saves you a bunch of updates16:26
n0yd_So i'd need the files from iso to install  regardless?16:31
treachwell, that would be the simplest way, right?16:32
n0yd_Remember, I'm not local.16:32
treachyou could loopback mount it16:33
n0yd_true16:33
n0yd_treach: Does crux make use of a make.conf in anyway, to adjust how my packages are compiled? ie, cflags and compiler options (-jX etc)16:34
treachyou're looking for pkgmk.conf16:35
n0yd_Ah, ok.16:35
predatorfreakn0yd_: We don't filter CFLAGS or make options.16:35
predatorfreakSo don't get too carried away.16:35
predatorfreakIt might break things.16:35
predatorfreakCRUX is not Gentoo :)16:36
n0yd_predatorfreak: I'm not a ricer16:36
predatorfreakIt's for sane people who like building from source.16:36
predatorfreakn0yd_: Good, good.16:36
n0yd_But this system is a quad opteron16:36
n0yd_So i might as well make some use of it16:36
predatorfreakn0yd_: Jesus Christ!16:36
predatorfreakn0yd_: Hand it over! :P16:37
n0yd_hehe16:37
treachn0yd_: considering you're not local you should be ultra careful and really look at all the relevant manpages :)16:37
treachtraveling 1500 miles because you screwed up a oneliner would suck, I imagine. ;D16:38
n0yd_Well if something goes wrong, I have someone who can mess with stuff locally if needs be. :)16:38
treachwell, that's a relif. :)16:38
n0yd_Basically, I set this box up in my friends closet in his Condo is washington,dc.16:39
n0yd_He has better bandwidth options, and I use it mainly as a server16:39
treachah, and you trust your friend I gather. :D16:39
n0yd_Yes, he is a lifelong friend.16:39
n0yd_He doesn't mind that his bandwidth gets eaten up either, thankfully.16:40
n0yd_hmm. Lets see.  I guess I'm going to have to save the iso on the drive I'm installing to I guess...16:41
treachas long as it's acessible. *shrug*16:41
n0yd_The lfs livecd supports reiser416:42
n0yd_Although it doesnt support the raid card, which sucks.16:42
n0yd_It has support in the kernel though16:42
predatorfreakYou need reiser4 support?16:42
predatorfreako.O16:42
treachhm. are you married to the stuff on the disk you're installing to?16:43
n0yd_No, not at all16:43
n0yd_It's already wiped16:43
n0yd_shit, it apparently decided to pickup my raid card...16:43
n0yd_and i just mounted it, and almost rm'd it :-/16:44
n0yd_woops16:44
treachif you can make your friend burn a copy of the iso above, it supports ssh etc iirc.16:44
treachnot sure how it works exactly though, never used that feature.16:44
n0yd_ssh most likely starts by default16:44
n0yd_you just need to make a root passwd16:45
treachwell, I meant wrt network configuration etc.16:45
n0yd_predatorfreak: I remember you for some reason...16:46
jjpkcrux is not in the automation business you see. ;)16:46
n0yd_Did you get banned from #archlinux at one time? ;)16:46
predatorfreakn0yd_: Yes.16:46
predatorfreakMy claim to fame.16:46
treachI'd get that iso and try to figure out how remote installation works with it, and go that route instead.16:46
n0yd_heh16:46
predatorfreakBanned from #archlinux for eternity.16:47
treachooh, how do you survive? ;D16:47
n0yd_predatorfreak: You still are? That was aeons ago, and that person is no longer an op.16:47
predatorfreaktreach: I troll #crux :P16:47
predatorfreakn0yd_: Eh, I don't really care about #archlinux anymore.16:47
predatorfreakI'm now back to CRUX full-time.16:47
jjpktreach: the 'Han' of #archlinux struck? :>16:48
treachhe's grown up, and returned from his folliness. :P16:48
treachno idea, I'm not in #archlinux.16:48
treachpractically never was16:49
predatorfreakWait, is Han banned here or did he just disappear?16:49
n0yd_I suppose downloading the iso and mounting it from the drive I intend to install to would still work...16:49
treachn0yd_: sure.16:49
treachjust don't wipe it. :P16:49
jjpkpredatorfreak: he left.16:49
predatorfreakjjpk: Aww, but he was always such an awesome crackpot crazyman :(16:50
treachhan wasn't too bad, but waaaay to choleric.16:50
predatorfreaktreach: I think I was just way too knowledgeable for #archlinux, kind of like how you can't go into #gentoo without CFLAGS that are -O3 -ffast-math -omg-optimized16:51
treach.. s /to/too16:51
predatorfreakApparently, knowing the way cdparanoia works is way above most Arch users or even Arch developers :\16:51
treachI don't know gentoo enough to validate that claim.16:52
predatorfreaktreach: Gentoo is about how big your e-penis is :P16:52
treachbut stuffed up people who can't get over their overinflated sense of pride is rampant16:52
predatorfreaktreach: Of course! It16:53
predatorfreakIt's open-source*16:53
treachI fail to see the relevance of that. Sorry16:53
jjpkYou could find that anywhere, it is not bound to open source.16:54
treachyeah, even though theo probably is the worst case in the world. :P16:54
jjpkOne of the more prominent types without a doubt.16:55
predatorfreakjjpk: There's a lot of ego-maniacs in open-source.16:55
predatorfreakEven Ingo Molnar and Linus Torvalds are ego-maniacs, to a certain degree.16:55
treachpredatorfreak: there are lots of such people in other places as well.16:55
treachlots of burocrats, teachers etc.16:56
predatorfreaktreach: Yeah, but I notice a lot of them in open-source, in places where they don't need to stroke their ego every damn minute.16:56
treachwell, I presume that's because thats the main scene you're watching.16:56
predatorfreake.g. A lot of Gentoo developers have serious ego issues which cause enough shit for them.16:57
treachyour sample is biased. :P16:57
predatorfreaktreach: Everyone is biased.16:57
treachof course16:57
predatorfreakI like technology, the rest of the world isn't important :P16:57
treachI'm just saying that I doubt that gentoo devs are more inclined to ego-related pissing contests than microsoft managers etc.16:57
treachit's just more public16:58
predatorfreaktreach: True.16:58
predatorfreakIt is fun to see them flinging poo at each other :P16:58
jjpkpredatorfreak: yeah linus and ingo really showed their colors with the SD and CFS scheduler "debates".16:58
treachI think it's sad.16:58
predatorfreakI mean, their debates over stupid freaking shit is insane.16:58
predatorfreakjjpk: Oh you mean.16:58
predatorfreakCon's sick.16:58
predatorfreakSo let's just ignore his scheduler and later if we get questioned.16:59
predatorfreakBlame it on him being a bad maintainer?16:59
predatorfreakDespite the fact Con was been maintaining a stable, very low-problem patchset for over 4 years?16:59
jjpkTo me the situation seemed like an "us against them" because Con was not one of the kernel wiseguys so-to-speak.16:59
treachyeah. linus had some very disingenous arguments..17:00
predatorfreakTo me it seemed like Ingo and his giant Ego.17:00
predatorfreakand there were times when I SWORE Mike Gibwhateverthefuckhisnamewas had to be a clone of Ingo.17:00
predatorfreakBecause he'd show up at the best times to attack SD.17:00
treachI mean, come on, was linus trying to make us belive that he never heard of CK until a few months ago?17:01
predatorfreakCon's been contributing to the kernel FOREVER now.17:01
treachI don't buy that, not for a second.17:01
treachyeah.17:01
predatorfreakHe freaking tuned the O(1) scheduler when it went into 2.5.17:01
jjpktreach: it could be possible linus lives in a bubble world, isolated.17:01
predatorfreakand he's contributed numerous different patches over time.17:01
jjpktreach: but very, very unlikely.17:02
treachjjpk: hermetically then..17:02
treachpredatorfreak: exactly my point17:02
predatorfreakPlus I never quite understood Linus's argument on the "problems" with SD.17:03
predatorfreakIt was like "Ingo thinks the interactivity isn't like O(1)"17:03
predatorfreak"PROBLEM!"17:03
treachI mean, maybe the SD scheduler wasn't optimal, maybe it was, but the whole deal was handled in a way that stinks to high heaven..17:03
predatorfreakand Con REPEATEDLY told them that was the intended behaviour.17:03
predatorfreaktreach: To be honest, on my systems.17:04
jjpkStubborn devs, what else is left to say.17:04
predatorfreakI still can't tell the difference.17:04
predatorfreakAll the dang microbenchmarks and corner-case testing apps they can throw at me don't mean shit for real world usage.17:04
predatorfreakIn the real world, both SD and CFS "feel" about equal.17:04
RedShiftSD, CFS?17:05
treachI never cared about SD, since I have no problems with "interactivity".. but they should have been honest with Con, that's all I say.17:05
RedShiftyou brought that up earlier17:05
RedShiftstill don't know what SD and CFS mean17:05
jjpkTime to start doing a bit of research.17:05
predatorfreakRedShift: SD = Staircase Deadline17:05
jjpkGoogle it.17:05
predatorfreakCFS = Completely Fair Scheduler17:05
RedShiftooooh17:05
RedShiftI know those17:06
RedShiftdidn't know you were talking about schedulers17:06
RedShift(just dropped in)17:06
predatorfreakBasically different implementations of the same concept.17:06
jjpkpredatorfreak: I suppose you can say Ingo cherrypicked this and that from SD.17:06
treachbut one has one tuneable, and the other one has 2 dozen and still adding..17:06
predatorfreaktreach: I've had problems with the O(1) scheduler under pretty common workloads.17:07
treachheh17:07
predatorfreake.g. encoding a DVD to H264 and playing music while browsing would produce slow load times and stuttering.17:07
predatorfreakbut the encoding would go smooth as butter.17:07
treachI'm from a differnent age, I don't have such *problems* :D17:07
treach*different*17:08
predatorfreakOn SD or CFS they all get a cut of the CPU and all are doing their dang work.17:08
predatorfreakNo stuttering or horrible load times.17:08
predatorfreakJust some lost performance in DVD encoding or whatever.17:08
treachI was brought up on DOS, and win3.11, so I tend not to care about crap like that.17:08
predatorfreaktreach: Bah! Terminal junkie! :P17:08
treachif my system has a lot of work to do, I just leave it alone.17:09
RedShiftaaah yes17:09
predatorfreakIf my system has to do a lot of wokr.17:09
RedShiftwindows 317:09
predatorfreakwork(17:09
RedShiftnow those were the days17:09
predatorfreakI have to be doing something else :)17:09
treach<- currently using opensuse and kde..17:09
RedShiftI was young17:09
RedShiftnothing to worry about17:09
predatorfreaktreach: Yeah, but you still use mutt :P17:09
treachindeed, and irssi17:09
predatorfreaktreach: Thus, terminal junkie!17:10
RedShiftI loved the days I ran naked on beaches without caring... a better time :(17:10
treachbah, right tool for the right job17:10
predatorfreakRedShift: I STILL do that.17:10
predatorfreakOf course... occasionally the cops arrest me.17:10
treachgraphical tools for text stuff makes as much sense as a bike to a fish.17:10
RedShiftpredatorfreak: ya, I developped something called "shame" :(17:10
predatorfreakRedShift: Well, I'm banned from a few beaches around here.17:10
RedShifttreach: they can complement each other17:11
RedShiftlol17:11
predatorfreaktreach: GUIs still feel clunky to me for file management.17:11
treachdepends on what you're doing.17:11
predatorfreakTo be honest, mv, cp, rm, etc feel better than drag-n-drop type shit.17:11
treachfor some things it helps, most of the time cli works just as well.17:12
predatorfreakand I'm faster at typing than moving a mouse.17:12
predatorfreakPlus, tab completion :317:12
predatorfreaktreach: I can type /usr/share/X11/fonts/BLAH faster than I can click to it.17:12
predatorfreakI know that much.17:12
treachI suck at regex etc, so when I'm manipulating a lot of diverse files a gui is nice.17:12
predatorfreakOf course, /usr/sh<TAB</X1<TAB>/font<TAB>/bl<TAB> is even faster :)17:13
treachbut that said, this switch is just temporary, I hope to be back in dwm soonish.17:13
RedShiftI use a mix of both17:13
predatorfreaktreach: To be honest I prefer regexes for mass renaming and shit.17:13
predatorfreakIt's faster to type out a regex and run the command for me :\17:13
RedShiftyeah regex sucks :\17:14
predatorfreakRedShift: I was stating regex rocks.17:14
treachalso, it's considerably easier to get an overview of the chaos with a gui. :)17:14
RedShifttakes me at least half an hour to come up with something usefull17:14
RedShifttreach: agreed17:14
predatorfreakFor me it's like regex-rename -e 's/\(\d\)\//g' *17:15
predatorfreakand done.17:15
predatorfreakor equivalent.17:15
predatorfreakThen again, I shell script a lot and use sed a lot.17:15
predatorfreakSo regex is kinda becoming second nature.17:15
treachI'm not saying it's an invalid approach.17:15
treachit's just that sometimes one is better, and sometimes the other, at least for me.17:15
predatorfreakIt's just a difference of how you choose to do it I guess.17:15
predatorfreakI like my terminal for file management.17:16
predatorfreakBut I like my GUIs for other things like IRC and the like.17:16
treachnot to mention using gui tools over ssh truely sucks.. :D17:16
predatorfreakBecause X-Chat feels more "intuitive" to me.17:16
treachhaha17:16
treachgui for irc, great..17:16
predatorfreakIt's one of those things :P17:16
treachthat makes about no sense at all. :D17:16
predatorfreaktreach: Feels right for me, screw your "sense"!17:16
treachheh, gui's make sense when you have a graphical content, like gimp, or looking at ps/pdf files etc.17:17
treachrarely else17:17
predatorfreaktreach: Technically file management isn't graphical :)17:18
jjpkThis is where un*x shines since you can pick and choose from at least a few options. :p17:18
treachpredatorfreak: *rarely*,..17:18
predatorfreakSo technically, you shouldn't need a GUI for any of that, nor should it make sense.17:18
predatorfreaktreach: Bah! :P17:18
RedShiftpredatorfreak: according to the movie hackers, you need a 3D filemanager to manage your files :o17:18
predatorfreakMovie hackers suck.17:18
predatorfreakThey construct viruses with freaking 3dmax :)17:19
RedShiftya, have some imagination dude (or dudette), it's a movie17:19
treachpredatorfreak: and as I said above, I'm not dead set either way on that topic.17:19
RedShiftit's not supposed to be real, it's fiction17:19
predatorfreakRedShift: It's boring for me.17:19
jjpkDistortion of reality is what movies usually depict. ;)17:19
predatorfreakjjpk: I like "good" distortion of reality.17:20
predatorfreakand most hacker-movies these days are "bad" distortions of reality.17:20
treachthen you should use a mac. ;)17:20
predatorfreaktreach: Steve Jobs is evil.17:20
predatorfreakI know it.17:20
treachheh17:20
predatorfreakHe's just waiting on the Kool-Aid.17:20
RedShiftjjpk: obviously the people that can't seperate the real world from fiction aren't educated well enough17:20
RedShifthowever, people are easily influenced17:20
RedShift(take a look at the newsreports these days)17:21
treachpredatorfreak: you can't complain about the quality of the reality distortion though. :D17:21
jjpkEspecially those who accept authority and lack resolve of their own.17:21
predatorfreaktreach: Bah! good reality distortion has lots of death.17:21
predatorfreakBad reality distortion has 3dmax viruses :)17:21
treachjjpk: that's why we are all rebels. if we were sheep we had been happy with windows. :P17:22
RedShiftwhen I really got hypocritical about everything was when my history teacher explained something17:22
RedShifthe showed video footages from the first world war17:22
RedShiftand he tells, this isn't real footage, this is fake. They shot this a few kilometers behind the front17:22
predatorfreakoh and treach, my real point on GUIs is they feel "right" for each person.17:22
predatorfreakIt's one of those human things.17:22
RedShiftthe tought of faking such footage never occured to me17:22
RedShiftthat was a real shock17:22
jjpktreach: well you don't necessarily have to be a rebel.17:23
predatorfreakRedShift: War footage from the front lines?17:23
predatorfreakAre you an idiot? o.O17:23
jjpkBesides, sometimes you are forced to use windows, situations you can't control.17:23
RedShiftpredatorfreak: obviously I was, but I got educated :-)17:23
predatorfreakThe people recording the shit are cowards.17:23
treachRedShift: it's obvious, you don't want to get the propaganda personell shot.17:23
predatorfreakThey don't want to die.17:23
predatorfreaktreach: Exactly! :P17:23
RedShifttreach: the thought never occured to me17:23
treachRedShift: besides, you rarely see anything at the front, you're too damned busy keeping your head down..17:24
RedShiftyes, I know that now17:24
treachbecause if you don't you'll lose it17:24
predatorfreakRedShift: I have this approach to everything.17:24
jjpkRedShift: why would you show weakness? I doubt it would do much to show your soldiers slaughtered by the dozen on the fields. :p17:24
RedShiftsince then I don't trust the media17:24
predatorfreakBe sceptical.17:24
predatorfreakSince anything can potentially be false.17:24
RedShiftpredatorfreak: skeptical? I became a goddamn hypocrit17:25
treachhypocrit?17:25
treachyou don't mean a cynic?17:25
predatorfreakRedShift: I went insane and became sceptical.17:25
jjpkpredatorfreak: yes and no. Universal truth does not exist, instead you have different interpretations.17:25
predatorfreakjjpk: That's my point.17:25
RedShiftI can't look at the news anymore without thinking "What angle was this shot, what were the conditions, what did the reporter left out, etc..."17:25
jjpkThe trouble with this is determining whether news has been deliberately inflated.17:26
predatorfreakjjpk: Be sceptical of everything because one interpretation isn't always right ;)17:26
RedShifttake a look at shows like "cops" and other american bullshit17:26
jjpkpredatorfreak: yep, it's good to hear and dig up alternative points of view.17:26
RedShiftpay attention to the effects and music they use to blow up the whole story17:26
predatorfreakRedShift: I don't watch the news.17:26
treachpredatorfreak: it's not news.17:26
predatorfreakUnless it's on youtube for funny.17:26
predatorfreakLike FOX news attacking "Anonymous".17:27
RedShiftI don't even trust my government anymore :\17:27
predatorfreakGod I laughed my ass off at that "serious reporting".17:27
treachit's filming drug users getting busted for entertainment.17:27
predatorfreakRedShift: Anyone trusts the US government?17:27
treachFOX AND "serious reporting"17:27
rehabdollI DO!!!!!!!!!17:27
predatorfreakrehabdoll: You're insane.17:27
RedShiftpredatorfreak: I'm not from the US (fortunatly)17:27
predatorfreakYou don't count.17:27
jjpktreach: fair and balanced news!!! the tube said so!!17:27
treachERROR: CONTRADICTIONAL TERMS17:28
predatorfreaktreach: That's my point ;)17:28
predatorfreakThey don't report shit.17:28
predatorfreakSo much as take something true.17:28
treachof course they do.17:28
predatorfreakand lie about it.17:28
RedShiftcables anyone? http://hercules.cedex.es/IngSis/images/comuni.jpg17:28
treachthey ONLY report shit17:28
jjpk"if you disagree, you are an unpatriotic commie"17:28
predatorfreakjjpk: I'm moving to Soviet Russia!17:29
treach"liberal bias", that has to be one of the biggest jokes in the world.17:29
predatorfreakOh wait.17:29
predatorfreakThat's in the past.17:29
predatorfreakFuck it, I'm moving to the past!17:29
jjpkToo late. ;)17:29
* predatorfreak invents time machine17:29
treachkill yourself, that way you can at least say you lived in the past.17:30
jjpktreach: every side has their own variant of that.17:30
treachthe return of facism.17:30
predatorfreaktreach: I'd rather torture humanity with my existance.17:31
treachwell, I was just trying to be helpful.17:31
predatorfreaktreach: Besides, screw death :P17:32
predatorfreakI'm going to live forever.17:32
predatorfreakEven if I have to resort to making my body a machine.17:32
jjpkA brave statement. :p17:32
predatorfreakIn fact, ESPECIALLY if I have to become a robot.17:32
treachmmh, too much strange anime, I'd say.17:32
jjpkAnime, or too much robocop.17:33
treachwell, he's at least part biological17:33
predatorfreaktreach: Yes, as far as I know.17:33
predatorfreakBut robocop will have nothing on me.17:34
predatorfreakI'll be a giant freaking tank or something :317:34
treachwalkers seems to be the rage these days.17:34
predatorfreakScrew walkers.17:35
predatorfreakThem and their feet.17:35
treachnot sure why though, since it's probably the worst configuration possible.17:35
predatorfreakI'll crush them under my treads.17:35
predatorfreakHuh, it figures I'm talking about being a robot while listing to Black Sabbath's Iron Man o.O17:36
predatorfreaklistening*17:36
treachiron-ic17:36
rehabdolldoes anybody recognize this compile error? new xorg-server with dbus:17:41
rehabdollhttp://paste.lisp.org/display/4733717:41
RedShiftrehabdoll: probably needs hal and dbus :-)17:42
rehabdollboth are installed17:42
treachlooks like a missing dep17:42
RedShifthmm17:42
treachRedShift: look at what he said.. *with* dbus17:43
predatorfreakit needs to freaking link shit right.17:43
predatorfreakIt's not actually LINKING dbus or hal17:43
RedShifttreach: yeah I thought about missing dep, but he also said dbus and hal are installed17:43
predatorfreakBusted makefile probably.17:43
RedShiftwell, /me zzz17:43
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predatorfreakAw shit.17:45
predatorfreakthe "klogd 1.5 segfaults" has returned.17:45
predatorfreakGod damn it klogd.17:45
jjpkYou must have some seriously bad karma, or sysklogd holds a grudge against you. :p17:48
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jjpkSuppose it could be triggered by a combination of gcc and glibc and you did claim to have rebuilt your system a few days ago.17:51
treachfwiw, I think I had the same problem, and I had done none of those things17:52
predatorfreakHuh.17:52
predatorfreakJust before dying.17:52
predatorfreakit tries to write something.17:52
predatorfreakBut then flat-out dies.17:52
treachHelp, SOS!17:52
treach*klogd dies*17:53
jjpk:D17:55
predatorfreakHuh.17:58
predatorfreakThis is interesting.17:58
predatorfreakFrom the changelog for 1.5.17:58
predatorfreak"   - Ensure that "len" is not placed in a register, and that the17:58
predatorfreak     endtty() signal handler is not installed too early which could17:58
predatorfreak     cause a segmentation fault or worse. "17:58
predatorfreakI wonder....17:58
treachmh that sounds really reassuring..17:59
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jaegerwoot, new hardware is here18:08
treachanother quad opteron? :p18:09
jjpk\o/18:09
* predatorfreak reverses.18:09
predatorfreakthis better work :(18:10
* treach makes a left trun and honks at predatorfreak 18:10
treachs/trun/turn18:10
jaegernothing so big this time, just the new video card and PSU18:10
treachah, psu's are underrated..18:10
jaegernice to have18:11
treachwell, I was just thinking about a lot of people spend quite some time and money on getting their system quiet, only to top it off with some crappy cheap noisy standard POS psu.18:12
treach(yeah, I don't like them. ;p )18:12
jaegerI'm more concerned with stability and performance than noise18:12
treachmmh, but usually you get both better than that crap that you usually get.18:13
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predatorfreakoh fuck it.18:14
predatorfreakI'm sick of playing magical sysklogd.18:15
predatorfreakBack to 1.4.1 <_<18:15
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jaegerport syslog-ng and forget about it :)18:17
predatorfreakjaeger: syslog-ng isn't anywhere near viable for core.18:23
predatorfreakjaeger: Unless you guys are willing to merge glib2 into core...18:24
thrice`hrm, apparently rebuilding mouse is necessary too after upgrade :)18:25
treach...rebuilding mouse?18:25
thrice`xorg-xf86-input-mouse18:25
treachthat sounds a b i t ambitious, even for an engineer. ;)18:25
thrice`:)18:26
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predatorfreakWoah!18:32
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jaegertime to bootstrap a new image18:58
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predatorfreakmmm rsyslog works beautifully, nice replacement for sysklogd.20:01
jaegergood deal20:03
predatorfreakjaeger: Heck, it's practically drop-in, except that the init scripts will need to be modified to run /usr/sbin/rklogd/rsyslogd instead :)20:05
predatorfreakor really, I could work around that with a quick symlink.20:05
predatorfreakTo be honest though, I think it'd probably be better to just make an init script for the logging daemons.20:06
treachjaeger: I guess we better switch to rsyslog with 2.4, so predatorfreak gets something useable. ;)20:06
jaegerI've been wanting to do that for 3 releases20:06
jaeger(move sys/klogd to init scripts)20:07
jaegertreach: :)20:07
predatorfreakjaeger: Well, I'll do it all.20:07
predatorfreakand submit some tarballs/patches to the mailing list.20:07
predatorfreakand we'll see where it goes :)20:07
jaegerok20:07
thrice`good idea20:07
predatorfreakThere.20:20
* predatorfreak mails off his work.20:20
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predatorfreakAll mailed.20:31
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prologic_hey all ... I'm trying to build core/patch with pkgmk on a Debian box21:06
treachheh, I have a feeling I know what's coming...21:06
prologic_lolz21:06
prologic_yeah it can't figure out the host type21:06
prologic_how do I get around that ?21:06
treachah, not the question I was awaiting.21:07
treachI don't know either right now, and I should go to bed...21:07
prologic_hmm21:08
predatorfreakprologic_: Example of error?21:11
prologic_hold on21:12
prologic_go to http://prologic.shortcircuit.net.au/wiki/Pastes21:14
prologic_last paste on that page21:14
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predatorfreakTried doing export HOSTTYPE=i686?21:16
prologic_no I'll try that21:17
thrice`echo $HOSTTYPE21:17
prologic_didn't work21:17
predatorfreakI'm out of ideas :P21:17
jaegernothing useful in the configure log?21:20
prologic_no21:21
prologic_other than stating it couldn't guess the host type21:21
predatorfreakBlarg Xorg 7.3 + NVIDIA with -ignoreABI is like using the nv driver.21:27
predatorfreak2D is fine, anything 3D is terrible.21:27
predatorfreakSomehow I bet it's going to be "No decent 3D for 6 damn months" with NVIDIA :(21:28
prologic_hmm21:35
prologic_any other ideas guys ?21:35
prologic_I can't even compile a simple hello.c21:38
prologic_I have an updated toolchain instaled in /opt/21:39
prologic_ie: binutils/gcc/glibc21:39
prologic_how do I force pkgmk to use this ?21:39
prologic_gcc tries to link again /lib/libc6... instead of /opt/lib/libc....21:40
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predatorfreakBlarg I'm gonna have to go back to Xorg 7.2 if I want something usable.22:16
predatorfreakGod-damn NVIDIA :(22:16
treachthree cheers for ati then. ;)22:17
* treach notes that everytime something like this happens even his radeon 7500 outperforms anything nvidia.. :p22:18
predatorfreaktreach: Not all of us believe in Legacy hardware :P22:19
treachworking legacy hardware >> not working top of the line hw.22:20
* treach rubs it in.22:20
predatorfreaktreach: TECHNICALLY it works.22:20
predatorfreakIt's just not usable.22:20
predatorfreakAt least, not for me.22:21
treachwell not useable amounts to not working22:21
predatorfreaktreach: X runs and for anyone who uses nothing but 2D apps, it'd be fine.22:21
predatorfreakBut I require games.22:21
treach:>22:22
predatorfreakWhy NVIDIA can't not-be-lazy and do a quick rebuild.22:23
predatorfreakand put it out.22:23
predatorfreakI don't fucking know.22:23
predatorfreakWell, time to restart X so I actually-have-freaking-3D.22:31
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Jason5876Hi.  Speaking of X, I am wondering if the Sun video drivers are meant to be in CRUX i686.  There is xorg-xf86-video-sunbw2, suncg14, suncg3, suncg6, sunffb, sunleo, suntcx.  With these installed, X -configure or xorgcfg just hangs.  With them removed, they work.  Easy enough to deal with, but I am just curious about it.22:40
treachask tilman when he wakes up. :)22:41
Jason5876ok22:41
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predatorfreakThere.22:51
predatorfreakjaeger: Just an FYI, for 7.3 you might want to extend gl-select for /usr/lib/xorg/modules/libwfb.so, which is now included in xorg-server.22:52
predatorfreakand conflicts with the NVIDIA one.22:52
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predatorfreakdamn nvidia driver, I forgot to do gl-select xorg; gl-select nvidia :(22:58
predatorfreakand it crashed :(22:58
treachaaaaah, there is no joy like a healthy dose of "schaden freude" :>22:59
predatorfreaktreach: I could always hurt you and your legacy card :>23:00
treachreally? ;>23:00
* predatorfreak gets chainsaw23:00
predatorfreaktreach: Sure :]23:00
predatorfreakAnyway, shower.23:01
treachbed..23:01
predatorfreaktreach: Sleep with a knife.23:02
predatorfreakJust incase.23:02
treachI doubt you'd transfer very well over tcp.23:03
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