IRC Logs for #crux Saturday, 2007-10-06

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prologicYes my Xorg/Xfce is still locking up00:13
prologiceven after the gtk and xfce rebuild00:13
prologicquite annoying :/00:14
prologicI leave myself logged into a console now and use startx &> log00:14
prologicnow since running slim and killing X and restarting slim is just way too annoying :/00:14
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rxiprologic: did you manage to fix xorg 7.3 or did you revert?00:42
prologicI haven't :/00:46
prologicI'm just putting up with it atm :/00:46
rxiim gunna revert when i get the energy00:50
rxivista is just easier at this point00:52
prologicreverting isn't hard00:53
prologicjust do a checkout of the xorg repo00:53
prologicbefore tilman updated it all :)00:53
rxii was just gunna do a pkgadd -u on xorg dir on the cd00:53
prologicor that :)00:54
rxiill just stick with xorg 7.2 . should have known better than try to fix something that isnt broken00:57
prologictbh I don't know why we as crux users and developers are so eager to update00:58
prologicupdating can tend to break too many things than it's worth00:58
rxithe only good reasons for updating is security and stability01:01
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teKhi there01:45
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tilmanprologic: which bug report is your problem?02:26
tilmanprologic: and (ffs) is it the xfce-vs-gtk bug, or an entirely unrelated xorg bug?02:31
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teKWhere is the  repo for the (C) prt-get rewrite? The git version I found seems quite old.02:48
tilmanthere's no prt-get rewrite02:48
predatorfreakWhy would you rewrite prt-get ANYWAY?02:53
predatorfreakIt works fine o.O02:53
teKthis guy on the ML mentioned it. I wanted to have a look02:54
onestepBTW, I have a proposition about pkgmk03:06
onestepwhat about usage of sources cache?03:06
onestepI have lots of X sources in one directory, but after a fresh install I need to copy them to ports/xorg/<xxx> :(03:07
tilmanonestep: PKGMK_SOURCE_DIR in /etc/pkgmk.conf03:07
onesteptilman, nice!03:07
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prologictilman, xfce vs gtk afaik03:20
prologictilman, keyboard/mouse keeps locking up03:20
prologictilman, pointer still works and is movable, can not click anything03:20
prologictilman, all keyboard inputs except CTRL+ALT+BKSPC are non-functional03:21
bjohanpredatorfreak, does that only happen when you close a window, or a menu or something?03:40
predatorfreakbjohan: Dowhatnow?03:40
bjohanpredatorfreak, i have yet to have my morning coffee so i might be a bit incoherrent, but i had that problem in gnome03:41
bjohansometimes it locked like that, but only when something was closed03:41
tilmanbjohan: maybe you mean prologic? :p03:41
bjohanyeah )03:41
predatorfreakbjohan: :)03:42
predatorfreakbjohan: I != prologic :)03:42
bjohanpredatorfreak, i know but the keys are like next to each other! :)03:42
predatorfreakO on my keyboard is way to the RIGHT of e :)03:43
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prologicgrr fuck'n hell03:50
prologicI've now downgraded to xorg 7.1 from the cd03:50
prologicsick of it locking up :/03:50
prologicrxi, the downgrde works just fine btw03:50
prologiccd /mnt/cdrom/crux/xorg/03:50
prologicfor i in *; do pkgadd -u $i; done03:50
prologicthen start X03:50
bjohanprologic, does it only lock when windows/menus are closed?03:52
bjohanpredatorfreak, see, the coffee is working!03:52
rxiprologic: cool man03:52
predatorfreakbjohan: Drink less :P03:52
predatorfreakSo you mistab prologic instead.03:53
prologicbjohan, I'm not entirely sure03:53
predatorfreakFor equality sake.03:53
prologicit seems to lock up when you switch windows03:53
rxiprologic: pretty sure you can just do pkgadd -u *03:53
bjohanprologic, ok, i had a problem with locking when closing a window or when a menu closed03:53
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teKis there a need for a -dl (download only) option for prt-get?04:42
teKI do know -margs= ..04:43
tilmani have no idea, is there a need for it?04:45
teKIf you're a Dialup user: maybe04:45
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teKI'd love to have the option to ``depbuild'' packages.. i.e. aargs="--noinstall"04:46
teKalthough -dl and buildonly are not directly realted04:46
teK< weird.04:47
treachdl and above all, background downloading would be nice.04:49
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teK--margs="-do" doesn't work as prt-get stops after the first failed installation.04:52
teK% prt-get depinst --margs="-do" xorg for example04:53
prologicI had to downgrade gtk too04:53
prologicso I just pkgadd -u all of opt on the 2.3 cd :/04:53
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mike_kteK: yep, background downloading would be nice. Imagine a relatively small channel and CPU: background downloads will speed up sysup significantly.05:11
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treachbackground downloading would help even on a fat pipe, since *all* time spent *only* downloading is essentially wasted.05:18
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teKdownload-only for prt-get works already.. how you define background?05:19
treachalso, alas the fact that you've got a fat pipe doesn't translate to instantaneous downloads. :)05:19
teKdownloadin... <TIME>.... done. ?05:19
teK^- stdout05:20
treachteK: while (compile_package1){download_src(package2);}05:21
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treach( if(src_package2==true) package_src++;05:23
treachor something ;)05:23
treachteK: does it make sense, or do I have to get more elaborate? =)05:24
teKmom, telephone ;)05:25
mike_kteK: you cant just run:  prt-get depinst foobar --margs="-do"05:25
mike_kwould be nice: prt-get depinst foobar --fetch-deps05:26
mike_kor something like that05:26
teKmike_k: _now_ I can :)05:26
teK-> prt-get depinst -dl foobar05:26
tilmanprt-get depfetch foobar05:26
teK<20 lines ;)05:26
treachteK: don't forget to take the --ignore switch into account05:27
tilmanteK: does that download *all* dependencies?05:27
teKtilman: yes05:27
mike_kand the target package itself?05:27
teKjust one moment, gotta end this phonecall05:27
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treach"STFU mofo, I'm on IRC!"05:28
tilmanjust pretend the connection's breaking up, jeez05:28
teKit was my girlfriend and the conversation was about _her_ breaking food with her to _me_05:30
teKnot breaking :D05:30
tilmanok then food is important ;)05:31
* treach upgrades co-inhabitant's system to osuse 10.3.05:33
teK--ignore: have to test it but should work.05:34
teKtilman: it does all packages that would be installed with, e.g. depinst so it downloads "all" sources05:34
teK(== not the ones for packages already installed)05:34
teKtreach: I'd suggest using prt-get deinst -dl foobar and on another terminal sleep 5m; prt-get depinst foobar05:37
teKdepending on available bandwidth and package size05:38
teKtilman: using prt-get command -dl in favour of prt-get depfetch has the advantage that you can do prt-get {install,update,sysup} -dl, too05:39
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teK(as pkgmk already knows -do I simply used it)05:39
teKeven remove -dl, if you like *g*05:40
mike_kcan you make a nice patch with manpage update, so cptn can review it, please?05:43
teKI will very happily do that05:44
teKbut not before I implemented a --buildonly for prt-get, too. :)05:45
mike_kgood luck05:46
teKluck won't be required hopefully05:46
teKbut thx .)05:46
treachteK: I guess that would work as well. It's just that I don't really see why prt-get shouldn't proceed with downloading the next "source file" by default as soon as it's done with the first one.05:49
treach(presumeably you could parallelize that a bit as well, but.. :o) )05:50
treachIn fact this entire downloading business is entirely unrelated to the build process. Ideally it would download all the files in the que independently from the build crap, just put a stop in that prevents the build process to go forward until the next source is fully downloaded (ie. md5sum)05:54
treach*prevents the build process from going forward*05:55
mike_kand what task should stop, when you hit ^C? how it's gonna look? downloading in silent background?05:57
mike_klaunching two instances with different flags will eleminate that complicity05:58
treachthat's true, but it's not like the former is unsolveable05:58
treachfirst kill the build, then the download, I'd say. But that's open for discussion I presume05:59
tilman>: >: >:06:00
treachDid I say something stupid?06:00
tilmanno, but the ott guy did06:00
tilmanmy bp's rising already06:01
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treachjeez. 9 mails in one hour..06:01
treachhi cptn06:01
cptnhi to the dying crowd06:01
mike_ksave our souls!06:02
treach"tales from the crypt"06:02
tilmancptn: nice mails06:02
cptnI was so tempted to add a signature like this:06:04
cptn"Pass the toke, you've been hogging the drugs for way too long."06:04
cptn  -- Linus Torwalds to M.-C. Ott06:05
tilmancptn: made my day :D06:05
tilmancptn: i'm sooo going to quote that if he replies to my replies ;)06:05
tilmanoh my god that git thread is priceless06:06
tilmanadding 'register' type annoations, whah the hell!?06:06
teKeach time Matthias-Christian Ott posts on a ML, god kills distro06:07
tilmanhe needs to write a response NOW so i can quote linus06:08
tilman"people who think CRUX needs something like USE flags are ugly and stupid" ;))06:08
cptnmaybe we could give him a Jörg Schilling award for communcation skills06:09
tilmanor a "merkbefreiung"06:09
prologicwho wants USE flags ?06:10
prologiclemme at em! lemme at em!06:10
cptnprologic: crux ML06:10
prologicthat thing I can't respond to :/06:10
tilmanah, the drug mail is from 200506:10
* prologic kicks maverick06:10
tilmani guess he got scared away from git development quickly06:10
cptntilman: regarding the .au ML problem:06:10
cptntilman: it's possible to allow people to post through gmane.prg06:10
cptnerr, .org06:11
cptnI didn't configure it that way, but it should be possible to change easily06:11
tilmani hate to have to deal with this06:11
tilmancan't be so damn hard to fix properly >:06:11
cptnI agree, it would be just a work around06:12
tilmani'll talk to jaeger about this, thanks for the hint06:12
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tilman> Yeah, "register" is what you use after 21 days of programming06:12
tilman> pracitce...06:12
tilmanactually it is introduced on day 2.06:12
tilmanthere it is06:13
cptnI like that part too :-)06:13
cptnway to support your point, quoting a "learning XY in 21 days" book06:14
tilmanerik de castro lopo co-authored it :/06:14
cptnit's almost as funny as arnuld posting the weekly FAQ to the C++ newsgroup06:14
tilmanthat's the soundfile guy, isn't he?06:14
tilmancptn: he does?06:14
tilmanthe only way to make this day even cooler is to have a new posting on mycrazyroommate.com06:15
treachmmh, I wonder how firmly people are connected to reality..06:15
cptnhe just took it over from another member06:15
cptnbut it contains so many tips arnuld never followed on our lists that it made me laugh. hard06:16
tilmanthe guy's sending his replies to my address and lists@.. -- i'm only getting one copy that was *not* sent by mailman06:17
tilmandoes that make sense?06:17
cptnI saw that too06:17
cptnit seems if both the list and you are in the To: field, you only get one06:17
cptnnot sure why06:17
tilmani'm filtering on the mailman headers -> chaos06:17
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teKmycrazyroommate rocks, tilmann!06:23
cptnteK: maybe this is of interest for you :-)06:23
tilman Edit: jw/prt-get/prt-get-5.15-install_path.diff06:25
tilmanFailed to download The requested URL returned error: 40306:25
tilmancptn: can you fix that please? :p06:25
cptnhehe, sure06:26
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tilmancouldn't apply linus' quote this time06:28
teKcptn: does this obsolete a -dl option for prt-get?06:28
cptnnot really obsolete but provide a similar functionality06:29
teKwould you - an appropriate patch proveded - reject merging this option? ;-)06:30
cptnprobably :-)06:31
cptnI think if anything it should be a command06:31
cptnnot an option do *inst*06:31
teKhow far have you followed my conversation with tilman?06:33
teK12:39 < teK> tilman: using prt-get command -dl in favour of prt-get depfetch has the advantage that you can do prt-get {install,update,sysup} -dl, too06:34
tilmanoh, arlnuds blog moved to
cptnan, I see your point06:34
tilmanmike_k: you had a point last night when you mentioned the 'works for me' attitude -- cf your latest thread on crux-devel :\06:36
mike_ktilman: sorry, I can't understand the 'cf your latest thread' part.06:40
tilmanmike_k: that thread shows that we're lazy bitches often06:40
mike_kI know =)06:41
tilmancause nobody except nipuL cared to asnwer06:41
tilmani need a better todo list06:41
tilmanor i need to flag mails as "need to handle" or something06:41
mike_kdo you feel responsible? if you don't care - just ignore it. I am ok with that...06:42
tilmani really think that's the most retarded patch ever06:42
tilmanmike_k: yes, i think one of the crux maintainers should have replied to it06:42
tilmancptn: mmh, imagine i gave him commit access. he'd probably totally mess up prt-get and pkgutils :D06:43
cptnwell, he'd "redesign prt-get"06:43
cptnsounds good to me ;-)06:44
tilmanor maybe the c++ standard doesn't know about 'register'06:44
cptnmmmh, I'm too lazy to send another reply06:45
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cptnbut if you look back, so many things were developed outside the official repository06:45
cptnmost ports in opt and contrib, CRUX PPC, prt-utils, prt-get & httpup, the ports DB...06:46
cptnno one had to take over the project for that06:46
cptnno one ever said "if I had a dev account and (most important) a e-mail, I'd make the world a better place"06:46
teKcptn: so this is a final 'no'? If so I will spare (us) details ;)06:52
cptnteK: well no, I think it's a pretty good argument (sysup etc)06:53
cptnTBH, I don't work a lot on prt-get these days06:53
teKso I will send possible patches to..?06:54
cptnwell, it's probably best to send them to me anyway06:55
cptnI'll definitely review it, and if you don't here back, please follow up06:55
teKok, thx06:56
teKoh and what about a prt-get [command] --buildonly option?06:56
cptnwell, that doesn't make sense for depinst or sysup06:57
cptnerr, it will for sysup06:57
cptnbut it's probably a bad idea06:57
cptnsince you'll link against outdated libs06:57
teKpossibly. darn.06:58
cptnbut you can add it06:59
cptnif you add hooks for the download only stuff, it's probably similar to add another hook to return after build06:59
teKI think so, too06:59
cptnbut cd `prt-get path curl`/curl; pkgmk is probably as easy :-)06:59
teKgood. let's see and you'll hear from me06:59
cptnerr, cd `prt-get path curl` && pkgmk -d07:00
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cptntilman: okay :-)07:03
cptnteK: okay :-)07:04
tilmano noes, we are terrorized by an oligarchy07:04
cptnI get the feeling it's pointless with him :-)07:06
tilmanmaybe he should ask linus for write access to the master copy of git.git07:07
tilmanin the same tone that he used to ask us07:07
tilmanwhat would linus say...07:07
teK"of course you can if you pass me your crops"07:08
tilmanjust how many emails more is he going to send?07:11
tilman> OK, if that is the CRUX philosophy, than the philosophy has to be07:12
tilmanchanged also.07:12
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tilmanWe could have an universal distribution that is modular and flexible07:24
tilmanand thus fits for everyone.07:24
tilmanTHAT calls for the drug quote07:24
tilman_debian_ already is the universal distribution07:24
cptnhe called gentoo bloaded07:25
tilmanit's modular (packages) and flexible (mmh)07:25
tilmanwhy did he mention that stallman said that cars aren't software?07:25
tilmani mean, who would have thunk?07:26
tilmanwe need per back07:27
tilmanalternatively, we need cptn back, who can act as the benevolent dictator07:27
tilmansticks and stones!07:27
tilmanthe handbook needs to extended by a paragraph like this: former arch or gentoo developers are frowned upon ;)07:28
cptnheh, I kinda like bashing newbies without having to think how it reflects on the project07:28
tilmannot a problem :]07:29
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rehabdollwow what a useless thread..07:41
tilmanif i had known from the beginning that he's insane i wouldn't have bothered to reply :\07:42
rehabdolljust the fact that he wants nls support really kills all his other arguments07:45
rehabdollfull stop07:45
treachrehabdoll: it would also help if he had coherent and congruent arguments. :s07:45
tilmanrehabdoll: most german translations suck imho, i don't know how anyone can stand them :>07:46
treachtilman: swedish ones are usually not much better..07:46
rehabdolli wouldnt know.. i dont think ive ever used a translated operatingsystem07:46
treachtranslating "hiding" to "gömmning" like one older kde version I saw di is just hideous.07:47
rehabdollworkbench, english windows and english distributions07:47
tilmanthe xchat default quit message is "quit" in the original07:47
tilmanno, wait07:47
* tilman thnks07:47
treach"Abruch" :P07:47
tilmannot sure i remember it07:47
tilmanthe german translation was very confusing at least ;)07:48
treach<- used a german speaking atari once. :P07:48
tilmani wanted to get stuff done today07:48
tilmanso far i failed07:48
tilmandamn you, dying crux distro07:48
rehabdollofcourse, nls has their uses. I installed ubuntu in swedish for my dad :)07:51
tilmanyes, it might be useful for people who don't know english (well enough)07:52
tilmanprologic: try to revert gtk back to 2.10, rebuild xfce. if that fixes it, go file a bug in xfce's bug tracker and link to the patch that we applied to fix the problem07:54
tilmanit would help to have someone back up your case07:54
tilmanprologic: maybe you can try to reproduce the problem without xfce to make sure it's the wm...07:55
treachotoh, if you don't know english very well, I'd say your chances of keeping the system maintained are ~ 0.07:55
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teKthe only OS with quite good Translation english->german is Windows09:04
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prologictilman, I reverted Xorg back to 7.1 and gtk to 2.1009:10
prologictilman, I did not rebuild xfce though and the problem has gone away09:10
prologicwhich leads me to believe it's a bug with either gtk or xorg or both09:10
prologicalso the switching of workspaces slowness has gone too09:10
thrice`xorg 7.1?09:11
prologicwell whatever is on the cd09:11
prologic7.2 rather09:11
prologic$ prt-get listinst xorg -v09:11
prologicxorg 7.2-109:11
prologicxorg 7.3 + gtk 2.12 == really bad :/09:12
tilmandoesn't really help09:14
tilmanrevert just *one* of them09:14
thrice`that's so strange, as you're the only one, it seems09:14
prologicwell I shall try to upgrade xorg again09:14
prologicand lock gtk09:15
prologicI have a funny feeling gtk is b0rked09:15
prologic2.12 anyway09:15
prologicbecause xfce is purely gtk-only09:15
prologicdo you think I'd need to lock gtk and it's deps down ?09:16
prologicor just lock gtk from being updated09:16
tilmanjust gtk09:16
* prologic does a sysup (again) :)09:16
teKprologic: btw, getmail-4.7.6 is _available*09:20
teKopt/getmail is at 4.7.209:20
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thrice`Re: die happy crux (25) o.O09:49
tilmani think it's over now though09:52
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thrice`sort of appears so...funny read :)09:57
thrice`hm, is hotplug still needed with new udev, or is that obselete ?09:59
tilmanwait, i'll ask the current udev master10:00
tilmanthrice`: is hotplug still needed with new udev?10:00
thrice`(thinking for the 2.4 iso)10:01
onesteparch works just fine without hotplug10:20
onestep[onestep@onestep-box ~]$ pacman -Q hotplug10:20
onesteperror: package "hotplug" not found10:20
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RedShifthotplug is old10:38
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RedShifthey, does there something exist that can extract .bix files?10:54
onestepthere's some java unpacker...10:57
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RedShiftnever mind, I don't think it's a bix archive at all11:01
RedShiftstupid properitairy firmware images11:02
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schniggi1hi aöö12:42
schniggi1all ;)12:42
schniggi1are there any known bugs with newest xorg update and mouse freezing ? i cannot find a error in the Xorg.log mouse is correct detected, but it's dead :-|12:43
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rehabdollnot as far as i know, check with the xorg folks12:49
thrice`schniggie: you rebuild the mouse input, correct ?12:50
schniggierebuilt it 10 mins ago ;)12:52
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tilmanschniggie: do you run xfce?13:18
tilmanschniggie: are you sure it's just the mouse?13:20
tilmanwhat input driver are you using?13:20
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bjohanRyoS, where do i get one? :)13:34
RyoSyou can order them at my email adress.. $29,99 each13:35
bjohanRyoS, i found one for irc as well
RyoSbjohan: hehe13:35
bjohanRyoS, could you email something that i can print and cut it my self? :)13:35
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RyoSbjohan: i do not really have that kind of picture..13:49
schniggietilman: yes only the mouse, keyboard works13:53
schniggiei only use keyboard and mouse as input13:53
schniggieand another problem, that i found at the moment on my laptop is much more critical for me ;)13:54
schniggie this happens when i try to open an attachment in thunderbird, exactly when clicking on the browse button to choose a application to open with13:56
schniggieand when trying to start sancho, a gui client for mlnet i get the following error13:56
treachyour computer is trying to tell you you shouldn't use such bloated crap as thunderbird.14:32
ssimonRyoS: you really need such kind of pictures!14:33
RyoSoh mr simon14:34
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prologicteK, thank you17:31
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prologictilman, the slowness of switching workspaces (which redraws the entire screen obviously) is definately due to Xorg 7.317:33
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prologictilman, so far hwoever I still believe the locking up is becuase of gtk17:34
prologicso far so good here17:34
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predatorfreakprologic: I know they changed something related to rendering stuff that's composited with 7.3 that causes massive slowdowns wih compositing in certain cases, maybe that's what you're seeing?17:52
prologicI'm not using compositing afaik18:11
prologictilman, that bug with the keyboard/mouse locking up is definately due to gtk 2.1218:12
treachthat's what you get from using fancy desktops. :>18:12
prologicwhat ?18:13
prologicit's gtk for christ's sake!18:13
treachproblems. :)18:13
prologicdon't tell me you don't have or use gtk ?18:13
treachand gtk is just problems spelled with three letters. :p18:13
treachI try to avoid it, tbh.18:13
prologicI thought it was gnome tool kit :)18:13
treach"Gimp Tool Kit"18:14
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