IRC Logs for #crux Saturday, 2007-10-13

RaizenI converted a bunch of my builtin stuff to modules to see which I don't use.00:00
mwansafor your second kernel just point image=/ to it00:00
Raizenshould I overwrite with what my 2nd kernel generated?00:04
Raizenor just move the kernel to /boot?00:04 is just a file with some debug symbols i believe. just move the kernel image to boot. dw bout System.map00:06
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prologicmake install ftw00:10
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Raizenoh boy00:15
RaizenI compiled the kernel and it paniced during boot :/00:15
Raizenunable to access root I guess00:15
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Romsterwhat on earth is up with Raizen dosn't know how todo kernel stuff...03:13
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Raizen /join #archlinux04:50
RyoS_traitor! :O04:51
RaizenI hang out in the channel at tiems04:51
Raizenthats all -.-04:51
Raizenany idea what the difference between the -ng and -dfs madwifi snapshots is?04:51
RyoS_dont take me seriously pal ;)04:51
RyoS_i dont use wifi04:51
tilmani don't use madwifi04:52
* tilman uses sanewifi04:52
Raizenyou fail, hard.04:52
tilmanhello surrounder04:53
Raizennow I need to decide upon a window manager to use with xorg04:53
tilmanopenbox rox04:53
RaizenI've finished compiling everything else I need for now04:53
tilmanand that rhymes, so it must be true!04:53
RyoS_tilman: ack04:53
surrounderheya tilman04:53
Raizenaudacious, irssi, xorg, nvidia, firefox, pidgin, wine, a bunch of fonts, alsa-utils and audacious04:54
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RaizenI'm leaning towards sawfish...04:55
RaizenI don't like the themes openbox has04:55
surrounderfvwm \o/04:55
RyoS_make your own04:55
RaizenI couldn't find any good ones04:55
Raizenits like all the openbox themes are freakin squares04:55
aonthe default is good04:56
tilmanits theming engine is cute like that04:56
tilmanit only uses bitmaps04:56
RyoS_tilman: why istn https running on
tilmanwhich are then colored04:56
RyoS_just curious :)04:56
tilmanie no pixmaps04:56
tilmanRyoS_: dunno04:56
tilmanich bin nur hilfsadmin ;)04:57
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RyoS_okok ;)04:57
Raizenicewm is like the oldest WM that is still in highly active development04:57
aonit's newer than fvwm04:57
RyoS_i used icewm on ubuntu way back when i switched from windows XD04:57
tilmani'd almost guess that enlightenment is older04:57
Raizenits still very old04:57
aonand twm is still in active development04:57
aonwell, yeah, that too :)04:57
RaizenI thought twm was dead.04:57
tilmannot sure twm counts04:58
tilmanjust because some loonie submitted some patches lately04:58
aonwhy not?04:58
aonof course it does :)04:58
Raizenbut few people use twm04:58
Raizendoes CRUX not feature the xorg runlevel?04:58
tilmani thought it was about development status04:58
Raizenfor a constantly running xdm?04:59
tilmanRaizen: just put xdm in SERVICES in /etc/rc.conf04:59
RaizenI've always wondered what the difference is between single and multi mode04:59
tilmani just remembered i got a big pudding in the kitchen!05:01
aoni wonder if i should publish the ports i had to make to make crux usable on my laptop05:02
tilmanprobably ;)05:02
Raizenany idea why prt-get seems to ignore the contrib and any httpup ports I have installed?05:04
aon'cuz you haven't added them to the config05:04
RaizenI thought it automatically got updated when I added repos05:04
aonyeah, but no05:05
tilmanthat might not be desirable in all cases05:05
tilmanit just wouldn't work ;p05:05
Raizenin case of overlaping packages?05:05
tilmanRaizen: yeah, you need to define which repo has a higher precedence than others etc05:05
Raizenis there a way to check with prt-get if theres any package conflicts?05:06
Raizenamong the ports05:06
Raizenwelp I managed to shave off an extra 100 KB off my kernel image :>05:07
Raizen1.5 MBs now with built-in stuff05:07
Raizenprobably as low as I'm going to get it05:07
Raizenwithout running into problems05:07
aonbamboo[~]$ ls -lh /boot/vmlinuz05:09
aon-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.1M Oct  7 01:38 /boot/vmlinuz05:09
aonbamboo[~]$ ssh beech ls -lh /boot/vmlinuz05:09
aonaon@beech's password:05:09
aon-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.1M Aug 31 22:35 /boot/vmlinuz05:09
aonthe sizes differ by 32k05:09
Raizen-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1511896 Oct 13 03:05 /boot/vmlinuz05:09
Raizenhey aon's kernel, those extra modules DO make you look fat05:10
aonyou don't call them modules when they are compiled in05:16
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bjohanwhere are the xorg input drivers located? in /usr/lib/xorg/modules/input?11:31
bjohantilman, any reason why xorg cant find the driver when it is in that directory?11:33
tilmandoes the Xorg.log have any details?11:33
bjohanit just says (EE) no input driver named fujitsu11:34
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tilmanand the file is called
tilmanno idea then11:35
bjohankn, thanks anyway!11:35
bjohanok i meant11:36
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mxqone question: what are the generic cflags?14:21
treach-march=i686 -pipe14:21
mxqtreach: thx14:22
Raizenyou forget14:24
Raizenfor the defaults14:24
mxqim havins some problems with cflags from gentoo wiki so im forced to use the defaults + -fomit-frame-pointer14:31
Raizenaren't you going overboard?14:31
mxqwhat do you mean?14:32
RaizenI mean excessive with too many optimizations14:32
mxq-march-k8 -msse3 -02 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer14:32
RaizenThe safest would probably just be -O2,Os,or O3 -mtune=(your arch) -march=(your arch) -pipe14:33
Raizenif your using a 64 bit processor i'd stick to i686 or your highest line for 32 bit amd/intel14:34
tilmanusing i686 on a modern processor sounds stupid14:35
tilmanthere's no harm in telling gcc what arch you're running on14:35
Raizenso if I use -march=athlon64, wouldn't I get a 64 bit output?14:35
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Raizenyou don't?14:35
Raizenthen how do you compile a 64 bit?14:36
rehabdollyou need to bootstrap with 64bit binaries14:36
RaizenI remember now... its based off your environment right?14:36
rehabdollthough, life would be simple if all you needed to do was to tell gcc you were using a 64bit arch :)14:36
Raizenwhats the difference between march and mtune?14:37
tilman"work on everything's that's compatible to $march, but work a bit better on $mtune"14:37
tilmanso mtune doesn't make that much sense for a compile-it-yourself distro usually14:37
treachRaizen: you could try hannes mayer's crux64.14:38
RaizenI want the best 32 bit I can get on 64 bit processor :/14:38
treachalso iirc you have to add -m64 or something if you want 64bit binaries.14:38
treachICBW ofc.14:39
tilmani think i'll build a athlon64 box soon14:39
Raizenis athlon64 even a acceptable input?14:39
tilmanwonder what i'll end up using there14:39
treachMine should ship on monday, :P14:39
tilmantreach: they say the phenom chip will be released in november. i'll probably wiat for that to get my cpu cheaper14:39
Raizenwould assigning --mtune and --march to the processor value do any good?14:40
treachtilman: Yeah, I thougth about that too, but then otoh, it's not really expensive now either..14:40
rehabdolldear god, treach on new hardware?! my world is falling apart! :)14:40
tilmanRaizen: please read the gcc man page14:40
tilmanwe've had this discussion 5 times with romster already14:40
tilmanand by now i'm fed up14:40
treachrehabdoll: I finally got tired of waiting for stuff, and upgrades currently are a steal :P14:41
treachI gave like 1700 SEK for a 20" widescreen monitor. :D14:42
rehabdolli just bought a samsung 960bf14:42
tilmanhow much is that in euro?14:42
rehabdollpretty much14:42
rehabdolli was a bit surprised to notice the samsung 960bf has *NO* buttons other than power14:43
treachaon: google ftw. :P14:43
rehabdollthank god i discovered ddccontrol14:43
rehabdollrunning with 100% contrast sucked :)14:44
treach@google "1729 SEK in Euro"14:44
clbtreach: Search took 0.21 seconds: FXsve0412: <>; Maximum fee vs child benefit: A welfare analysis of Swedish child ...: <>; • Net sales increased by13per cent to SEK 81682 million ( SEK 72241m): (1 more message)14:44
tilman@googlecalc "1729 SEK in Euro"14:44
tilman@calc "1729 SEK in Euro"14:44
clbtilman: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.14:44
treach@google -calc "1729 SEK in Euro"14:44
clbtreach: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.14:44
tilmanso much for google ftw :>14:44
aon@google -calc 1729 sek in eur14:44
clbaon: Google's calculator didn't come up with anything.14:44
jjpkgoogle calc ftl!14:45
treachtilman: it's more clb ftl..14:45
treachworks otherwise14:45
rehabdollbtw i have a spare p4 3.06ghz with em64t support if any crux-dev needs one14:45
rehabdolljust the cpu though :)14:45
treachanyone who needs a toaster?14:46
rehabdolltreach, did you buy amd?14:46
rehabdollis the am2 socket the one to go for still?14:47
Raizenoh i get it14:47
Raizen-march also set -mtune14:47
Raizenmaking -mtune redundant14:47
tilmanrehabdoll: i think. those new cores are for "am2+", but most/all(?) am2 boards can support am2+ cpus14:48
tilmanthat's what wikipedia says anyway14:48
tilmanand i'm totally not a hardware expert14:48
treachrehabdoll: yeah, it is, unless you want an opteron. :P14:48
treach(or a turion, but those boards are even harder to find )14:49
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treachhmm, I wonder who much a dual core with 2x1 MB cache will cut down the build time for ff. :D14:52
thrice`heh - what was this an upgrade from ?14:55
treachathlon xp 250014:55
tilmantreach: ditto!14:56
tilmanomg omg14:56
treachto athlon x2 5600 :D14:56
treachI wanted a 5200 @65 W, but they dawdled to much.14:56
Raizenshould I use -march=k8 -O2 and -pipe?14:56
RaizenI think thats the most I can use safely14:57
rehabdoll4mb cache ftw14:57
thrice`@google gentoo safe cflags14:57
clbthrice`: Search took 0.27 seconds: Safe Cflags - Gentoo Linux Wiki: <>; Talk: Safe Cflags - Gentoo Linux Wiki: <>; Safe flags to use for gentoo -1.4: <>; Safe flags to use for gentoo -1.2: <>; - Gentoo / Sabayon Safe (1 more message)14:57
tilmantreach: 65W are the EEs?14:57
treachI was thinking about gettin the "black box edition" but I thought 700 SEK extra was too much.14:58
treach(manufactured at 65nm)14:58
Raizenhow do I pass flags to make?15:03
Raizenso I can for example run multiple jobs at once15:03
Raizenfor multiple processers15:03
Raizenetc cores15:03
treach"make -j X"15:03
RaizenI mean15:03
Raizenset it as default so15:03
Raizenpkgmk does it too15:03
Raizenunless thats impossible?15:04
rehabdollexport MAKEFLAGS=15:08
Raizenhow would I make that permanent?15:08
Raizenadd it to root's .bashrc?15:09
rehabdolladd to pkgmk.conf15:09
tilmanugh, need... to close... this window15:09
treachHow do you export CFLAGS?15:09
Raizenfrom pkgmk.confg15:09
treachtilman: speaking this, would it be unwise to put that in pkgmk.conf by default?15:09
thrice`a spot for make_opts?15:10
treachand make ports that doesn't like it use their own settings?15:10
tilmantreach: w/ -j1?15:10
Raizenso ppl know its available15:10
tilmanyeah, sounds good15:10
thrice`iirc, that's how gentoo does it too (in their make.conf)15:10
treachtilman: well, most uni procs gains from -j2 or so as well.15:10
rehabdollthere are a few ports with make -j1 in the Pkgfile15:11
RaizenI have a dual core processor though15:11
tilmantreach: how so?15:11
rehabdollopenssl also comes with a patch to force -j1 since it breaks with -j5 for example15:11
Raizenhyperthreading, tilman15:11
Raizenrehabdoll, do you mean during compile or when its run?15:12
Raizenah okay15:12
rehabdollthe make flags have nothing to do with the resulting binary15:12
treachtilman: I'm just wondering, since dual cores etc is getting pretty common, and freebsd iirc recommends using -jX+1 where X is the number of cores you have, even if you have a single core, iirc.15:12
tilmantreach: i meant how do single core cpus benefit from j2?15:12
treachit makes the build go faster15:13
treachwell, multitasking, rather15:13
treachtilman: ie, single core cpus doesn't benefit from it, obviously, but the builds run on them do.15:14
treachsorry for expressing myself so backwards.15:14
Raizenthe most it'll do is speed up compilation15:15
Raizenit won't effect the results usually15:15
Raizensome packages break though15:15
tilmantreach: yeah, i don't get how it can help though ;)15:15
treachit shortens the build time.15:16
Raizenit might be handy if pkgmk had a flag to overwrite the default makeflags15:16
treachit's called "editing the port"15:16
thrice`we should call them use flags15:16
Raizenif you run make with no arguments15:16
Raizenit'll automatically take the Makeflags?15:16
Raizenexport variable?15:16
tilmantreach: i don't get how it can run faster i mean!!15:16
tilmanwe're totally missing each other's points :D15:17
thrice`nothing can make my 2100 xp run faster :(15:17
treachwell, it does, since parts of the build can proceed in parallell.15:17
treachI've done "rebuild world" on freebsd both ways, and using -j3 shortens the total build time significantly, even on an UP.15:18
tilmantreach: two half cakes are still one cake instead of 1 and a bit15:18
tilmanall i want is a technical explanation for that ;)15:18
treachThink like this.15:18
RaizenI think its time I recompiled my toolchains and system :)15:19
tilmanRaizen: i don't think so ;)15:19
treachIf you use -j1 the cook has to complete every stage in turn when making the cate.15:19
Raizenwhys that?15:19
tilmanRaizen: doesn't help that much, plus there's a chance you'll break everything15:20
treachtilman: however if you use -j3 the cook can spend idle time doing other tasks, rather than just wait.15:20
treachlike for instance whipping cream while the cake is in the oven.15:20
tilmantreach: the cake thing is a bad example i think :]15:20
tilmanthere should be no idle time15:20
treachwell, there is, and you know that. :P15:20
tilmani think there should be so little idle time that it doesn't matter15:21
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tilmanmmh :/15:21
treachyou're free to give it a try, if you don't trust me.15:21
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