IRC Logs for #crux Tuesday, 2007-11-06

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treachno idea.07:49
Romsteryes means i will be :)07:49
Romsternew version is out and he arn't seen nor updated kde, it's like 3 weeks approx now since a new version came out.07:49
treachI suppose he's busy.07:50
Romsteri guess so i botched up my own ports
treachwell, I'm not bothering with kde3. ;)07:51
Romsteri didn't even bother todo it the right way so footprint mismatch will be big but i've been on it for a while now.07:51
Romsterwell i got qt4 ready to go for kde4 :P07:51
treachI was just curious about it, and though about making a few ports for it.07:52
treachthen it struck me that you might already have done that.07:52
treachfor normal stuff I've already got dwm etc working. :D07:52
Romsterah if oyu hold off i'll throw some together tomorrow.07:52
treachNo need, unless you too want to play with it. :)07:53
Romsteri tyed to get used to icewm but the try icons keept getting hidden.07:53
Romsteroh i may play with kde407:53
treach*tray* I guess you mean. :)07:53
Romsteri've been on kde3 since i started using crux.07:53
Romstereh tray07:54
treachwhat did you use for tray?07:54
Romsteryeah but i wasn't game to try the beta i should i guess.07:54
treachicewm has it built in?07:54
Romsterjust what was there, built in07:54
treachok, I used "trayer" when I was using fvwm07:54
Romsterlook at my icewm port in my repo maybe you'll have more luck, the only icon that worked was xchat07:54
treachworked pretty well.07:54
Romsterpidgin and skype icons just disapeared.07:55
treachtrayer+fvwm works very well.07:55
Romsterah got fvwm stuff too maybe i'll give that a go again.07:55
thrice`nothing and fvwm workw ell :)07:55
Romsteri jsut want someting lighter than kde but ya know the gui feel to it.07:56
treachif you like that kind of window management fvwm works excellently.07:56
Romsteri'll hit fvwm later.. tomorrow or the day later.07:56
treachit's light, and faster than a bat out of hell..07:56
Romsterbut i'm keen on trying kde4.07:56
treachRomster: ok, maybe I get around making some ports for it.07:57
Romsteranother reason i wanna go lighter i hate built in crud that slows my pc down.07:57
Romsterya know the stuff you never use and wish it wasn't there.07:57
treachwell, I don't think kde is that bad in that respect.07:57
Romsterits quite minimal but some inboult things like the file manager i'd like to be smaller.07:58
Romsteri might like kde4, so i'm gonna give that a go later..07:58
Romsterand i'll have a mess with beta icewm and fvwm07:59
treachmmh. I doubt it takes that much resources, considering the componentization (is that a word..? =) ) in kde. (speaking of filemanager)07:59
treachkde is crazy really. You can have it running in 70 MB of ram, and it still does *more* than gnome does at 140..08:01
Romsterwhen i came to crux gnome was broken so i tryed kde thank god i stuck to kde and not gnome, gnome is like more modular xorg now.08:02
treachI think I've harpered enough about gnome, but basically it's a damned mess.08:02
Romsterbut i'm sure gnome is good too since jaeger likes it.08:02
treachwell, different people have different definitions of "good".08:03
treachif you like the look and feel of gnome, and value that higher than functionality and resource useage, I suppose gnome can be good.08:04
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Romsteri prefer useability over bells and whisles.08:05
Romsterbut i won't go as far as evilwm08:06
jaegersaying it's good is a bit too general... it's certainly not for everyone08:06
treachRomster: that's what those gnomeites keeps harpering about all the time.08:06
jaegergnome doesn't ever feel like a hog to me, for what that's worth, even on slower hardware08:07
treachwell, I'd say gnome hogs more ram than kde, and kde uses more cpu than gnome, for some reason.08:07
Romsterjaeger, can ya do a few screen shots of your desktop?08:08
jaegerI have no idea since I haven't used KDE in a long time08:08
treachjaeger: I played around a bit with it on my laptop when I had debian on it.08:08
Romsteri can handle ram hogs but cpu useage is a big thing for me.08:08
treachkde did shorten the battery life quite a bit on it.08:09
treachRomster: you only notice it on a laptop..08:09
RedShiftI'm a big KDE fan08:09
RedShiftI like a fully fledged desktop08:09
jaegerRomster: I've got a few in my images gallery, looking for something specific?08:09
RomsterRedShift, 3.5.8 or you still on 3.5.7 or the new kde4?08:09
RedShiftgnome is a crappy desktop08:10
RedShiftbarely use-able for me08:10
treachRomster: I'd say it's not a DE, really.08:10
RedShiftthe keyboardability sucks, the file open/save dialogs are hell (they gave me chestpains)08:10
Romstergenearl gui decoerations task bar and start menu mainly.08:10
treachops, that should be RedShift08:10
RomsterRedShift, did oyu bump them yourself?08:10
* treach spanks tab-comp..08:11
RedShiftRomster: I'm not using crux O:-)08:11
RomsterRedShift, ....08:11
treachhe's one of those banned arch users. :p08:11
RedShifttreach: what would you call it then?08:11
jaegerI'm actually booted into windows at the moment :) but I'll switch and take a shot or two08:11
RedShifttreach: I'm not banned anymore08:11
RedShiftI licked some serious butt :)08:11
tilmanwhy were you banned?08:11
treachRedShift: assorted gtk apps that pretends to be part of something bigger08:12
RedShifttreach: ah I thought you were talking about kde08:12
Romsterjaeger, can wait for later :)08:12
Romsteri'm about to head to bed.08:12
RedShiftone thing gnome certainly lacks is consistancy08:12
jaegerno worries, I need to reboot to update this box anyway08:12
Romsterjaeger, in windows O_o08:12
RedShifttilman: something I said I presume, can't remember what anymore08:12
RedShiftmost have lost my cool when some newbie refused to read the docs08:13
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RomsterRedShift, why arn't you using crux and why are you in here? if you arn't?08:14
Romsteryou gonna return to the good side?08:14
RedShiftI like the folks here :-)08:14
RedShiftI like crux, but I'm no compilerjunkie08:14
Romsterso it's hell in arch?08:14
Romsterah you a lazy binary distro person...08:14
RedShiftwell I wouldn't say it's hell08:15
RedShiftbut it's becoming hell08:15
Romsteri prefer stuff compiled on my spefic hardware.08:15
RedShiftthey moved the loopback interface configuration to a static configuration in rc.sysinit08:15
Romsteris it like debian in the chat channel?08:15
RedShiftbecause to many newbies were removing lo from rc.conf because they didn't know what it was08:15
treach /o\08:15
Romstergawd even when i was in windows i kneow about localhost.08:16
RedShiftnow when you do rc.d/network stop, you're network is still up a bit (the loopback interface is still there)08:16
RedShiftgoddamn spellingmistakes08:16
RedShiftand they are starting branding some more stuff08:16
treachlocalhost is a real killer if you don't know what you're doing..08:16
RedShiftand I really hate branding08:17
Romsterwhy would you want to take down localhost?08:17
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treachthere are reasons to block it, like security08:17
RedShifttreach: three years ago people joining the archlinux community were knowledgable enough to know that08:17
treachbut you have to open up for some stuff.08:18
RedShiftnow the past year alot of newbies have joined and the bugtracker is filling with newbie stuff08:18
RomsterRedShift, why not a big fat warning of do not remove lo it is required!08:18
RedShiftRomster: they did that at first but then decided to put ifconfig lo in rc.sysinit anyway08:18
Romsterhiding it is jsut going the M$ way.08:19
RedShiftand now with that branding they are aiming on more publicity08:19
treachhow about those people break their computers and get left to stew?08:19
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RedShiftbefore we know it I'll be running something similar like ubuntu08:19
Romsterubuntu, a system that has all defaults and dosnt' give you a shocie what to install.08:20
RedShiftthey just do what the community asks them to do, instead of laying out clear goals themselves08:20
Romstereh a choice...08:20
Romsterman my typing is very slack.08:20
treachpeople these days doesn't think, and will do anything to avoid it. :/08:20
RedShiftfor example, someone had to screw with the easy pkgrel release numbering08:21
RedShiftit used to be -1, -2, -3 (like in crux), etc...08:21
RedShiftbut now hear this, they added a "subnumber" indicating a change to only one architecture08:21
RedShiftso you can now have pkgrel's with 1.1 as version number08:21
Romsteroh gawd, that sounds confusing..08:22
RedShiftthat's just plain stupid, if it's a change it should just bump to 208:22
RedShiftwhat the hell does the architecture have to do with anything08:22
RedShiftnew package is a new package, not a 0,1 package08:22
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Romsterso there version-release.arch ?08:23
treachjaeger: got the wrong window? :P08:23
RedShiftRomster: no not really08:23
Romsteror version-arch.release08:23
RedShiftno it's like this08:23
treachk. just a stab in the dark ;)08:23
RedShiftI'm talking about the pkgrel08:24
teK< treach> there are reasons to block it, like security  ... I recently got hacked by!08:24
RedShifthell you should see the number of users that ask why their sound is not working because they are too stupid to look at the goddamn volumes08:24
RomsterteK, lol08:24
treachteK: it's not good if someone manages to get routing going via it..08:25
RedShift99% of all sound problems are solved by "hey, try using alsamixer"...08:25
jaegeryou can imagine firefox or whatever open as well but this is basically what I look at08:25
Romstermuted or master and pcm is on infinity.08:25
RedShiftsome even complain that gnome comes ugly by default08:25
jaegerpeople will complain about anything08:26
RedShiftthe purity of arch has been broken08:27
RedShiftI've been considering more and more to fork it and twist it my way08:27
RomsterRedShift, totally.08:27
RedShiftyou should see the number of kernel patches they apply08:27
RedShiftit's sickening08:27
RedShiftif your device doesn't work take it upstream goddammed, it's their fault08:28
Romsterwhat on earth for?08:28
Romsterjaeger, nice background08:28
RedShiftmostly broken hardware that sometimes doesn't work with the vanilla kernel08:28
RedShiftthat's about 20 patches08:29
Romsterjaeger, any sots of beryl or is that not used much?08:29
jaegerhaven't taken any recently... I mess with compiz fusion occasionally but don't use it all the time08:30
Romstercpu hungery?08:30
RedShiftif I were to create a distribution it wouldn't have any branding of my own08:30
RedShiftsoftware should be supplied as the author intended. pure, default08:31
jaegerit's not hard on CPU, the problem is it doesn't play well with other 3d apps most of the time08:31
RedShiftyou'd have know you've installed the distro to know that you are running it08:31
treachRomster: btw, your qt4 port seems to be disfunctional atm.08:31
Romsteri like the fact crux is a d it yourself system, don't need any more spefic distros there's plenty of them now.08:32
Romstertreach, it's working fine for skype..08:32
treachwell, the url doesn't work08:32
Romsterbut i guess there could be a problem i haven't found08:32
treachI'm not sure it's your fault btw. I just had a look, it says "error in server response"08:33
Romsterit worked for me..08:33
Romsterunless they changed verisons..08:33
Romsterthere site is slow... hasn't even loaded yet08:35
treachI got a mirror.08:35
treachjeez.. 1708.8kb/s. :P08:35
Romsterwhat mirror?08:36
Romsteri should add it as a comment to the port.08:36
thrice`i like that wallpaper jaeger08:36
Romstertreach, gee you got a fast connection.08:36
treachdang, I closed the window..08:36
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jaegerthrice`: it came from; I'd link it but can't reach it right now08:37
treachRomster: yeah, it's pretty decent. ;)08:37
Romsterthere ftp is not reachable.. not really my problem..08:38
treachRomster: I think I used this one, might be a bit far for you though.. :P ->
treachbtw, in the name of busy screenshots; :D08:41
thrice`jaeger: ah...same.  i'll check it out later08:42
jaegertreach: all that junk in the lower right is a real eyesore :)08:42
pitillotreach, xD08:43
Romstertreach, addedit to the Pkgfile anyways is nice for soemone to view it and try another mirror.08:43
treachRomster: nice.08:43
* jaeger hugs his distfile repos08:43
treachI suppose it's just a temporary error though08:44
Romsterbut who knows how oftern it'll happen.08:44
Romsterqt4 takes some time to compile too!08:45
treachmmh, I guess I'll notice when it's done.08:45
treachI suppose the cpu fan will slow down a bit then. :)08:46
treachupdated screenie, at screen2.png ;)08:46
Romsterit takes way longer than boost/firefox does to compile. for me anyways.08:48
Romsteri got thermal fan control to.08:48
treachI have to fix my chassi fans, other than them, I usually hear nothing but the drag noise, :)08:50
Romsterah yeah my case fans jsut both run flat out.08:50
Romsterthe spu fan does too but that's quiet.08:50
Romstermy next pc is eihter gonna be a decent ram tunnel fan path for better cooling of the hdd's and stuff or i'll build my own case.08:51
Romstersheet metal working skills <_<08:51
teKno fans for me (AMD k6-3 400) :>08:52
treachheh, I've got an antec phantom PSU, one 80mm in the front and one 120mm in the back.08:52
treachthe chassi is basically *cold*. :D08:52
Romsterah sounds good i've looked at a new psu with a 120mm fan in it..08:52
treachthe phantom is passive. :)08:53
treach(with an "emergency fan")08:53
Romsteri'm not sure if i wanna go fanless or go full thermally controled fans.08:53
Romsterah fan assist if it needs it then.08:54
treachbut the load is so low on it, I've never heard it yet08:54
Romsternot even on a hot summers day with 100% cpu and hdd activity for hours on end compiling?08:55
treachI haven't had the system that long.. and I compile on a tmpfs. :P08:55
treach2GB of ram is enough for that. :D08:56
Romsterthis cpu cooler is awesome, it's got a max speed of 6000rpm and i've never had it past 4200rpm in 40+C summer heat and the inside temp was quite high too.08:56
treachwe'll see what happens when I put in some more disks in it.08:56
Romsterand under full cpu load.08:57
RedShiftthermally controlled fans is the best option imo08:57
treachthankfully we don't get 40 degrees here.08:57
Romsterhmm interesting, qt4 should build quick for you then.08:57
RedShiftif you order a computer with me you are certain it will be very silent08:58
treachI'll tell you when I'm done08:58
RedShiftthey are always thermally controlled08:58
Romsterit's not every day but yeah 30's and 35+ isn't uncommin in summer.08:58
treach30-35 is very hot here.08:58
Romsteronly thermally controled fan is the cpu one i installed the origioanl fan ran flat out quite noisy.08:59
treach40 is abnormal, but have happened08:59
RedShiftRomster: can you rephrase that?08:59
* thrice` thinks treach just posted his wallpaper08:59
Romsterah the origional fan was not thermally controled and the noise got to me.09:00
treachthrice`: heh, the difference between that and dwm with no windows open isn't that big :P09:00
Romsterso i yanked it out got a decent thermal take used the thermal option and it's alot better,09:00
RedShiftthermal control ftw09:00
Romsterand this one is a solid coper cpu cooler.09:01
Romsterlast one was aluminum.09:01
Romsterquite heavy actually.09:01
RedShiftin a few years that'll be worth quite a lot09:01
RedShiftpeople would start stealing computers for the copper *g*09:01
Romsterbut my pc don't get moved around.09:01
treachI think it's pretty cool that I'm using the stock amd cooler, and in normal conditions it's not audible over the drag noise. :P09:02
RedShiftyeah depends with AMD09:02
RedShiftsome come with good fans, other with bad fans09:02
RedShiftyou have to be lucky09:02
treachor "not unlucky"09:02
Romsteri stick with trusted brands like thermal take.09:02
Romsterwon't use small crappy heatsinks.09:03
treachI would have changed it if it was bad, I just see no point in doing so when it actually works well.09:03
RedShiftif you really want a decent fan, get a PAPST09:03
treachpabst? I haven't seen them for years..09:03
RedShiftthey balance their fans, the only thing you hear is the actual airflow09:04
Romsterand i use artic silver on them not them crap pads, or the white compound that's ok for electronics but need that bit more on a small die.09:04
RedShiftartic silver sucks, it's messy and it's not that good either09:04
treachRedShift: I didn't think they were still around09:04
RedShifttreach: they sure are ;-)09:04
treachRomster: lol, I need to readjust my settings I think. I just ran out of "diskspace"09:05
Romsterjaeger, that so looks cool09:07
jaegerit's extremely cool :) it's just that only about 2 of its features are really useful09:08
Romstertreach, haha i was so wondering if that would happen.. qt4 takes up alot of space <_<09:08
jaegerbut I'm fine with useless eye candy, got the power to run it09:08
Romsterthat would beat vista though <_<09:08
treachRomster: I had forgotten to give tmpfs more than 1/2 the ram.09:09
RedShiftespecially the ones which contain silver, they are quite a mess to clean up09:10
RedShiftyou need something like label-off to get it entirely proper09:10
RedShiftall that misery for just 2°c less :\09:11
RomsterRedShift, this one contains silver!09:11
RedShiftadvantages of the heatpads are that they last longer09:11
treachjaeger: I'd probably get motion-sick if that was my desktop. :D09:11
RedShiftso for servers and such, heatpads are better09:11
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jaegertreach: well, it isn't moving all the time09:12
RedShiftRomster: yes, that's why I said it sucked :p09:12
RomsterRedShift, ah ok well this has been on for 2 years and still counting.09:12
treachthank god. :)09:12
jaegeronly when you tell it to09:12
Romsterspinning cube?09:12
treachno, windows doing all kinds of goofy tricks..09:12
jaegerit spins when you hold down some keys and drag the mouse09:13
jaegerthose screenshots all required some user initiation09:13
jaegersuper+tab for the window ring, alt+tab for the middle switcher, etc.09:13
treachimagine alt tab-ing though a bunch of windows a couple of times.09:13
Romsterand having them spin around :P09:14
RedShiftI tried those effects one time09:14
RedShiftthey are fun for a while09:14
RedShiftthen I just turned them off09:14
RedShiftI want things to appear instantly09:14
Romsterjaeger, i'm impressed. i wanan compile that for my desktop :P but this pc is a bit slowish..09:15
jaegerthey're fun to show off but like I already said, most aren't useful09:15
thrice`pretty slick jaeger09:15
treachyeah, it looks cool.09:15
jaegerI'll go ahead and put the ports up in my repo, not like anyone who doesn't want to use them has to :)09:16
thrice`appreciated ;)09:16
Romsterjaeger, this is looking promising
Romsterjaeger, sweet i'd like to hhave a mess around with them.09:17
Romster now using cmake instead of autohell < lol09:17
jaegerI haven't sorted deps yet09:21
thrice`how many ports is it?09:25
jaeger9 if you include a meta-port09:25
Romsteri'm gonan update s3d later i was looking and looking for a update and finally there is one.09:26
Romsteri'm off to bed, nice chatting to you all, and catch ya later. :)09:27
jaegerok, they're committed to my repo, will show up at the next sync09:32
treachprt-get install qt4  1685.88s user 91.90s system 103% cpu 28:45.07 total09:55
treachRomster: btw, qt4 doesn't list dbus as a dep, but the footprint won't match without it.09:57
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treachRomster: this might be an issue just because I'm on 2.4 pre-test, but I just got "+ ../jam/src/bin.linuxx86/bjam --toolset=gcc debug-symbols=off11:00
treachPkgfile: line 12: 30445 Segmentation fault"11:00
treachRomster: with boost.11:00
tilmannot segmentirengsfel? ;)11:01
treach"segmenteringsfel" in that case :)11:01
treach"Progman.exe har utfört en förbjuden åtgjärd, och kommer nu att avslutas. OK, Avbryt, Ignorera" will probably be my favourite for ever. :>11:03
tilmanis that translation particularly retarded?11:03
thrice`ah, I forgot to install 2.4test11:03
treachwell, not really. the entire message is though.11:04
thrice`downloaded it last week and forgot about it :-(11:04
* tilman will install it as soon as his new hardware arrives \o11:04
thrice`mm...anything good?11:04
treachtilman: but the option "gömning" i found in some swedish translation of kde put me off that kind of stuff permanently. :>11:05
tilmanthrice`: nah ;D11:05
treach(gömma -> hide, but hide in this case should be "dölj")11:05
tilmangerman translations of foss are often terrible, too11:06
treachthrice`: considering that it actually works on this system, as opposed to 2.3, I'd say "yes" :)11:06
thrice`2.3 didn't work?11:07
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treachI guess it's something glibc related, since hannes mayers 64 bit version worked pretty well.11:09
treach...with a few, fatal exceptions. :>11:09
thrice`expected ;)11:09
treachI didn't expect sshd to have problems for instance11:10
thrice`there's always hte fatal exceptions11:10
treachalso, I wasn't prepaired for java to be as retarded as it is. :/11:11
treachie, the installer *needs* a 32bit environment, even the 64 bit version. :s11:11
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bjohani get the error "undefined reference to `clock_gettime'" when i try to update some packages, any one know how to fix this?11:27
Toshisay what?11:34
treach"Hello World".11:36
treachbjohan: I think that's related to some change in glibc. You don't say which packages causes you problem though.11:37
treachyou could perhaps try "--posix-ldflags" if that option is available.11:39
bjohantreach, i'll try, thanks11:44
treachbjohan: looks like a scope problem, clock_gettime() is defined in time.h11:44
treachmaybe they forgot to include <time.h>...?11:46
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bjohantreach, i dont think so, it is in the openssh and the sshfs-fuse packages etc.11:51
bjohanit is not defined in my time.h file11:52
treachwell, not defined. sloppy me. it's the prototype is there though.11:53
bjohanbash-3.2$ cat /usr/include/sys/time.h | grep clock_gettime11:54
bjohanthat is what i meant :)11:54
bjohanits not mentioned in the file11:54
treachhmm. I found it before..11:57
treachnow I've got something funky here,11:57
treachtank:/usr/include% grep "clock_gettime" *11:58
treachtime.h:extern int clock_gettime (clockid_t __clock_id, struct timespec *__tp) __THROW;11:58
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treachline 335, to be specific12:02
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teKwould anybody be so kind and hand me over the link to CRUX' 2.4-test.iso, please? :)13:15
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teKthx a lot13:20
treachsurrounder is gone, no THX available. ;)13:23
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teKtreach: darned..13:43
teKtilman: sudo and directfb's sources are broken (they are old versions which got removed)13:44
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Romstertreach, hmm that don't look promising you can comment otu bcp and see if the rest compiles in boost?15:53
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treachRomster: that didn't change much16:01
Romsterglibc issue?16:03
treachno idea16:03
Romsteror maybe that compiler..16:04
Romsterany chance on trying on a older compiler version?16:04
Romsteron 2.4test116:04
treachwell. If I dig out my laptop, but I don't feel like that currently16:05
Romsterguess i'll have to get someone else or i mess with a chroot and see if i can find the issue.16:05
treachmaybe it's time to do some testing on 2.4? ;)16:06
Romsterqt4 updated with missing dep too, i thought i got all the deps listed.16:06
Romsteryeah maybe so..16:06
Romstersome of them ports are a royal pain already as in time to compile.16:06
treachIt recently got a lot better here. :)16:07
Romstercompile breaks test compile.16:07
Romstercan spend days sometimes on geting something right.16:07
Romstereven with ccache.16:07
Romsterlucky i need a new computer.16:08
treachgotta love it when stuff breaks at the end of a firefox build, or something kde related. :>16:08
Romsterlol yeah, that reminds me kde4 testing :P16:09
Romsterbut first messing with s3d16:09
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nipuLthat's one of the things i like about freebsd ports17:33
nipuLwell make base ports in general i guess17:33
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nipuLman i wish ntfsclone could restore to smaller drives17:42
nipuLor you could resize it's special image format17:43
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