IRC Logs for #crux Sunday, 2007-11-18

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rBUGBusy place this :(13:11
tilmantreach: remember my thermal_zone issue? might be a bios bug, too :>13:13
treachoh, joy. :/13:13
rBUGAre the forums dead for anyone else ?13:13
tilmanthere are no forums :D13:14
treachtilman: I've got a nice problem here too.. the radeon driver crashes constantly, so I'm currently stuck with vesa... :(13:14
tilmantreach: my hard disk is broken again, too13:14
treachyikes. again?13:14
tilmanso the shiny new computer is back to sitting in the corner. ffs :(13:14
treachthis one at least works, but I'm seriously in a bind what to get as an replacement for the 9250 PCI I'm currently using.. ;/13:16
sepen9250 sucks13:16
tilmantreach: do you know what exactly makes it crash?13:16
treachsepen: it *does* work, to some extent.13:16
sepensee max vertices in glxinfo -l13:16
tilmanxv, dri, ...?13:16
treachtilman: unfortunately it seems it's nothing in particular.13:17
sepentreach, yeah! I've  9600 and I think is too diferent13:17
sepen*too much13:17
treachjust after a few moments of useage and then boom, screen black and the system stops responding to input13:18
treachtilman: if the system is loaded it gets worse13:18
tilmantreach: does the card hang, or does it fuck up the whole system?13:18
tilmanie can you still ping it?13:18
tilmanor does the magic sys req key still work?13:18
treachwell, it's just X that goes to hell.13:18
treachI haven't tried that sys rq magic. (yet)13:19
treachbut even if it helps it's no remedy. The periods between the crashes are too short.13:20
tilmanit can help in pinpointing the problem13:20
tilmantreach: do you use any driver options, or the defaults?13:20
treachtrue. Anyway, I'm aiming to get a new card. ;)13:20
tilmanyou could try disabling ColorTiling maybe13:21
treachI've tried the defaults, as well as with some options, neither worked13:21
tilmanand DynamicClocks13:21
treachis that enabled by default?13:21
tilmancolortiling is enabled by default now, yes13:21
treachaah, ok. didn't know that13:21
treachI'll try taking that out.13:21
treachok, brb, hopefully13:22
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surelyok, whatever the problem is, it's not colortiling... :/13:27
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tilmantreach: well, as i'm saying all the time, file a bug ._.13:31
treachhehe, right.13:31
treachI wish I could say anything more than "it doesn't work".13:31
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tilmantreach: oh, try disabling the hardware cursor13:32
tilmanit's a driver option, too13:32
treachyeah, I've seen that..13:32
treachk.. *crosses fingers*13:34
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treachmmmh, so far so good..13:37
treachcould it be something as trivial as this??13:37
treachok, I'm waiting this one out for a while, but so far it seems like you've earned another beer tilman ;)13:41
tilmanwhich versin of the driver do you run, btw?13:48
tilmanand it's a r200ish card, right?13:48
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tilmanoh well13:50
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tilmanso much for the theory ;)13:50
tilmanwhich versin of the driver do you run, btw?13:50
treachI think I know how to trigger it now.13:50
treachBasically, all I have to do is open firefox and scroll with any reasonable speed.13:51
tilmanbtw, enable the sysrq stuff *now*13:51
tilmanyou might be able to safely unmount your filesystems that way13:51
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treachok, taking notes ;)13:52
tilmanhit alt-print-s a couple of times to sync pending changes13:52
tilmanalt-print-u to unmount stuff13:52
tilmanalt-print-b to reboot13:52
treachk, thanks. I'll give that a try next time. :p13:53
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tilmantreach: is DRI enabled at all?13:54
tilmanyou could try: Option "DRI" "Off"13:54
treachdoesn't matter.13:54
treachI've tried both without it and not.13:55
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DarkNekroshi you all ;)13:58
DarkNekroshi sepen :D13:58
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tilmandoes it happen when you just run "X"14:03
tilmanwithout attaching any x clients14:03
tilmanand just letting it sit there14:03
treachhaven't tried that.14:03
treachlet me bounce out again.. :/14:04
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Romstertilman, sounds like you'll need to flash your bios on that new board if there is any new bios updates for it?14:05
tilmanRomster: i've put in the latest bios some days ago14:06
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tilmani dunno14:07
tilmani wonder whether it *is* a driver issue after all14:07
Romsterwrong driver? or some conflict.14:07
tilmandoes windows xp support sata?14:08
Romstergah /usr/include/python2.5/frameobject.h isn't the same as the one on python 2.3 and google isn't being helpful as top what names they changed too.14:08
Romsterthe xp pro at least i know.14:08
Romsteras i still have it on a 20gig hdd here.14:09
Romsterbut i had my sata as storage and it worked fine.14:09
Romsteras D drive.14:09
Romsterjust gotta have the bios set to SCSI for first HDD14:10
Romsterif you plan to install to sata.14:10
tilmansata is from 2003, xp is from 200114:11
RyoStilman: it does14:11
Romsterwell i've had it work.14:11
RyoSyou need drivers for it14:11
Romsteralthough i used sp214:11
Romsterso that could be why.14:12
tilmani don't want to create my own xp cd though14:12
RyoSyour motherboard driver packages should have them14:12
tilmani think i'll just assume that the drive is dead14:12
Romsterwhat was the term slipstreamed sp2 + updates into the install cd ona image on the hdd then copyed the boot loader off the cd then made a new cd.14:13
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RyoSgoogle nlite14:14
RyoSi love this tool.14:14
tilmanRomster: yeah, slipstream14:16
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treachhm.. just leaving X alone seemed to make it happy, lazy POS. ;)14:18
Romsterdon't sound good.14:19
treachtrying with a simpler session now.14:19
Romstertreach, even tryed a older driver?14:19
Romsterincase the lateist one is buggy?14:19
treachIm not going to screw around forever for this old POS card.14:20
Romstersounds like it's time to buy a new vid card then.14:20
treachindeed. I just need to get the cash for it -- and decide what to get. :/14:20
Romsteris this a ati youa re messing with?14:22
treach9250, pci. No agp port in this fancy schmanzy system.14:22
Romsteri've always been with nvidia, you need a PCIe video card? or you got no PCIe slot either?14:23
treachhaha, it's a NEW system. Not some old 386 ;D14:23
Romsteri might try ATI when they release then open drivers.14:23
treachof course there is a pcie14:23
RomsterVISA slot :P14:24
treach"Show us the money"?14:24
Romsteryeah extension of ISA14:24
treachpay to play14:24
treachthat would be VESA, right?14:24
Romsterbefore PCI came out.14:24
Romsteroops yeah..14:24
treachVESA local bus. :D14:24
treachnot VISA. :D14:24
Romsteri get my vowels mixed up14:24
rehabdollstill a looooooooong way to go though14:25
treachrehabdoll: indeed. which is why I'm hesitating a bit.14:25
treachlooks like I'm picking up a cheap nvidia until further notice.14:26
Romsteri'd stick to Nvidia although there driver sucks when new kernels come out.. like it won't work with 2.6.23.x yet.14:27
treachRomster: suck? I've noticed ati seems to be even worse at those occasions..14:28
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Romsterso neather is any good then.14:33
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Romsterhmm maybe Nvidia is better currently.14:33
treachdamned, if you do, damned if you don't.. :(14:33
jaegerI'm still having zero trouble with nvidia and 2.6.23.x14:33
treachor maybe I should say "between a rock and a hard place"14:33
treachjaeger: not running X? :p14:34
Romsterjaeger, binary driver on 2.6.23.x ?14:34
jaegerRomster: yes14:35
jaeger3 different machines with different cards, no trouble14:35
Romsteri've had no screens for x when i tryed 2.6.23.x14:36
Romsterand i did use gl-select!14:36
jaegerthis laptop runs the legacy 96xx driver but the other 2 machines use plain nvidia14:38
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treachthis officially sucks.14:38
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tilmani'm now trying sata in ide mode, instead of ahci14:47
treachhoping the disk isn't dead after all?14:47
treachat least I have no such problems. :)14:48
* treach crosses fingers and knocks on wood.14:48
tilmantreach: it decided to die just when i had all of the system set up14:48
tilmanand after i copied gigabytes of music over14:48
tilmanie i wasted days14:49
treachat least you copied it. :)14:49
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tilmantreach: i copied from my old pc to the new one14:51
tilmanalso, IDE mode doesn't help14:52
tilmanthat's it14:52
tilmanRMA here i come14:52
treachnice. :/14:52
treachtilman: I was just hinting at that if you had *moved* the stuff you'd be even less happy, I recon. ;)14:53
treachahem, *reckon*14:54
Romstertoo bad it wasn't a raid and that only one drive decided to foobar15:03
treachI'm pretty sure our friend already thought the same. ;>15:04
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Romstertilman, should charge them for the wasted time on faulty hardware.15:06
Romsterguess i'll mess with a newer kernel later.15:09
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rehabdollRomster: why dhcp 3.0.6rc2 ?15:31
rehabdoll3.0.6 final is out15:32
rehabdolloh, sorry.. wrong maintainer15:32
* rehabdoll slaps prologic 15:33
tilmani wish i had graphics card lockups15:34
thrice`why's that?15:35
treachyou pay for shipping, and I'll send you the card. :P15:35
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tilmanthrice`: cause everything else is fucked up here15:36
treach"everything"? :/15:37
Romsterrehabdoll, that's prologic's <_<15:37
treachtilman: tell us your sad story, so we know what hardware to avoid. ;)15:38
treachsamsung hdd's == bad, so far15:38
Romstershould submit it to the linux hardware database.15:39
thrice`probably not a linux deal15:39
treachno. samsung has had a lot of dodgy disks in the past as well.15:39
Romsterafter reading that i'd avoid samsung.15:40
Romsteri stick to WD15:40
treachWD is probably one of the worst manufacturers from a historical pov. :p15:41
Romsteri've had a good run..15:41
treachwell, so had I with Quantums..15:42
Romsteri think there was one model to avoid though.15:42
thrice`all of my WD are perfect15:43
rehabdollive never had any problems with samsung drives15:45
treachwe sent back about 10% of them I think.15:46
tilmanmy sad story:15:46
tilmanga-m56s-s3 is batshit insane and uses unusable default clock settings15:46
tilmansamsung 500gb is batshit insane resp broken15:47
tilman50% of the ram i bought is broken15:47
tilmanend of sad story15:47
* treach sends tilman a virtual beer.15:47
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tilmanthanks treach15:55
tilmantreach: how much is shipping, btw?15:55
treachmmh, I'll have to look it up15:55
jaegerwell, if it makes you feel any better, my hardware has been working great since I upgraded :)15:56
jaeger</feel good story>15:56
Romsterjaeger, <_<15:56
treachjaeger: I think that counts as a "putting-salt-in-the-wounds" story. :p15:57
treachtilman: I suppose it would be ~23âE15:58
treachheh, right. :p15:59
tilmantreach: that guy sent me a card from frigging north dacota for 8 us$15:59
tilmandakota even15:59
treachwell, I suppose it didn't have to pass through the swedish royal postal service..15:59
treachor nowadays, Posten, Inc.16:00
treachI guess he sent it as a letter, then it would be something like 7 E.16:01
tilmannah, it was a real package/packet16:01
treachdoesn't surprise me..16:02
treachour monopoly companies are nothing short of robbers..16:02
tilmanthere's no way to see RAM voltage in linux, or is there?16:38
treachI suppose gkrellm is your best shot (or lmsensors)16:39
tilmanah, of course16:39
tilmani remember hwmon exporting various voltages, too16:40
treachmight be.16:40
treachI always thought lmsensors provided more info than I knew what to do with. ;)16:40
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Romstertalking about voltages i think i solved my random hdd spin down issue. i got anoyed and thought my psu might be faulty and so i grabed my DWM and measured the rails on the plug, 12.1v, 4.5v, 5 volt rail was so low. my fault for sharing the same lead between my video card and hdd. <_<16:48
Romsterswaped things around and now it's at 4.8 volts.16:49
Romsterthem wires are much too thin for my liking to be droping upto 0.5 of a volt.16:50
tilmanfuck this16:50
tilmani think i'll send the fucking board in, too16:50
Romstersend the entire thing in or did you build it yourself?16:50
treachsounds like a good idea16:50
tilmanRomster: built it myself16:52
tilmani suspect i'm currently running the ddr2-800 ram at 200 mhz16:52
tilmanor maybe 400 mhz16:53
tilman(it will freeze immediately with higher settings)16:53
treachugh ugh ugh16:53
Romsterhow many ram chips tryed with one at a time?16:53
tilmanwikipedia says ddr2-800 should do ~7000 mb/s16:54
Romstersounds to me the mobo is to blame the hdd might be fine..16:54
tilmanmemtest tells me i'm at 2500 mhz or so16:54
tilmanoops, right16:55
tilmanRomster: i think if the sata controller would be broken i should see more random failures16:55
Romsterwrong ddr2 voltage/wait states?16:55
tilmani think they are at 1.8 v by default16:56
treachRomster: if your about to correct someone, do it right.. MB/s16:56
tilmanand the modules want 2.0-2.1 v16:56
tilmanbut i tried that already :(16:56
Romstereh yeah i get mbps and MB/s and stuff mixed..16:56
treachat least wouldn't I enjoy millibits/s..16:56
Romsteri knwo the diference between bits and bytes though.16:57
treachm = milli, M = Mega16:57
treachsmall, but essential difference. :)16:58
Romstereven tryed the hdd in your current pc? to see if it was a stat controler that's bung too.16:58
Romsterah yes very :P16:58
tilmanthe stupid clicking16:59
tilmanthe endless errors16:59
tilmanthe bad blocks16:59
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tilmanquite unlikely that it's all due to a confused sata controller17:00
tilmani was able to run the system just fine for days17:00
Romsterugh better change that to dead hdd.17:00
treachNooo, it's fine. He should put all his essential data on it..17:00
Romstermore like the arm for the heads got misaligned or something for that to happen.17:01
Romsterno idea about the clicking..17:01
Romsterheads parking maybe.17:01
tilmani don't have another PC that's sata capable around17:01
tilmani'm not going to open  my laptop17:01
treachthat clicking sound is harddrivish for "I'm dying"17:01
Romsterbut a new hdd...17:02
treachinfant deaths is nothing new17:02
Romsteri got hdd's here that are years old and still going strong.17:02
treachRomster: meditate on the meaning of "MTBF".. kthx17:03
Romsterhaving said that i bet one will fail now <_<17:03
Romsteri know what mean time before falure means...17:03
Romsterand that is a approximation.17:04
Romsterdepends what temp they sit at and how much work they do too.17:04
Romsterwhich i'm sure you already knew.17:04
tilmanwell, it's possible that the fucking retarded piece of steaming shit killed it17:05
tilmanbut i don't really care anymore17:05
treachindeed. stiiiiiill. your disks surviving for years aren't all that relevant.17:05
Romstertilman, jsut get the shit replaced and be done with it.17:05
treachtilman: with the possibility of getting k/b for ever.. did you try the system that mustn't be mentioned?17:06
tilmantreach: but i thought about it.17:07
tilmanalso it's probably much easier to get ram voltage and shit in windows than with lm sensors17:07
treachI usually do that when I have strange hardware problems..17:07
treachafter all the fucking crap is *designed* to run windows.17:07
treachie, if it doesn't it's *definitely* broken.17:08
tilmani'm mostly curious about the ram settings17:08
tilmantoo bad that i didn't realize earlier that i'm probably underclocking this thing17:08
treachfeels strange not to have an fsb to adjust your ram to. :)17:09
tilmani think wrt ram the 200 mhz system is kind of an equivalent to the fsb17:10
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treachwell, mine is running att 533Mhz..17:11
treachbut that setting was dictated by the ram, and not the cpu17:11
tilman<3 gigabyte17:13
tilman"what does blabla means?"17:13
tilmansomewhere else they sounded like lolcat, too17:13
tilman"i can use DDR2 ram blabla...?"17:13
treachlike the firmware upgrade program that came with my samsung dvd.. ;D17:13
treach"OMG somone set us up the bomb"17:13
tilmantreach: isn't 533 mhz a pretty odd value?17:13
treachnot really.17:14
tilmanthought 400 mhz was the maximum, if you don't overclock it17:14
tilmanfor ddr2-800 i mean17:14
treachmixing up with intel crap17:14
treachjesus, I can get another 2 gig for ~45 Euro..17:16
treachtemptations, begone17:17
* treach resolutly closes firefox17:17
Romsterheck i rarely use all my ram and i onyl have 1,280MB in this pc.17:18
Romster2x 512 and 1x 25617:19
Romsterthought of geting another 512 but it's not worth it17:19
treacharen't you using a tmpfs to build on?17:19
Romsternext pc i get i will.17:19
Romstersome shit uses over 1 gig to compile.17:20
Romsteralthough it oculd goto swap if it needed too?17:20
treachsupposedly yes.17:20
Romsterwhat settings did you do?17:21
treach <- need for speed. :D17:21
treachRomster: not much17:21
RomsterPKGMK_WORK_DIR="/dev/tmpfs/work" ?17:21
treachjust mount a slab of ram som place and point the workdir there.17:21
treachroughly, yeah17:22
Romsterah k17:22
Romsteri supose that would speed up considably even though i use distcc too.17:23
treachI'd say it would do more..17:23
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Romstersupose making a new point is better than using shm17:29
treachyeah, it doesn't use any ram anyway, unless you put something there.17:30
Romsteri'm jsut hoping it goes to swap when it runs out of allocated ram?17:31
Romsterand not kill the compile.17:31
treachit's supposed to do that.17:31
Romster850MB is needed to compile qt4 <_<17:31
Romsterah good17:31
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treachnote that it hs a default limit of half your ram17:31
Romsterso onyl the very big stuff will slow down17:31
treachs hs/has17:31
Romsteryeah i just read that.17:32
treachso it might be a good idea to push that limit up a bit17:32
treachbecause it's a hard limit. :)17:32
Romstermount -t tmpfs tmpfs -o size=850M,nr_inodes=1M /var/tmp/work17:34
treachwhy bother with that?17:34
Romsteryeah set the number of inodes eh i'll leave that out then..17:34
treachI'd set it to 1GB as well.17:35
treach(size that is)17:35
Romsterthat's cuting it fine..17:35
Romstereven right now i have 747MB free17:35
Romsterout of 1,280MB17:36
treachhow much of that is cache..?17:36
treachwhich will be swapped out when there is no need for it..17:36
treachor rather, when the ram is more pressingly needed for something else17:36
treachffs, this isn't DOS, man..17:37
Romsterfirefox is a memory hog.17:38
treach-/+ buffers/cache:        383       163017:38
Romsteri'll use 1G17:38
treachoh, really?17:38
Romsterwhat darn command is it?17:38
Romsteryeah ff is using 15% of my ram17:39
treach5% here. :)17:39
Romstermem equiveltn command <_< i've been using ps and htop..17:39
Romsterktorrent hogs some ram too.17:41
treachdepends on how many torrents you have running. I bet most of it is SHR17:41
nipuLshared memory17:42
nipuLgtk and what not17:42
Romsterah yes it is.17:42
treachie, shared with the rest of kde..17:43
rehabdoll166mb out of 2gig :o17:43
Romsteryeah even xorg xshm17:43
nipuLmemory is cheap17:43
Romsterthis board can't take anymore than 1.5GB ram or i'd throw more in it.17:43
nipuLif you want a memory hog, run compiz17:44
treach"ram is cheaÃp" is a cheap excuse for bad codrs.17:44
nipuLi didn't write firefox17:44
treachindeed not.17:44
treachdidn't mean to imply that17:44
Romsterah found it "free"17:45
tilmanEPIC FAIL17:45
nipuLhe's finally lost it i see17:45
Romsteri hadn't used that comamnd in ages.17:45
treach[00:38] < Romster> what darn command is it?17:46
treach[00:38] < treach> "free"17:46
Romsterwhy couldin't it be named mem :P17:46
Romsteroh fuck...17:46
treach"eagle eye romster" strikes again17:46
nipuLi'd call it chazzwazzah17:46
treachor something intuitive like chkdsk17:47
tilmanhowcan you not know free?17:47
Romster686 cached.17:48
Romsteri've always used htop *gags*17:48
nipuLi'm of the opinion that unused memory is wasted memory so as long as i'm not swapping i don't really care17:49
treachproblem is when ALL coders adopt that attitude, without any regard for the accumulative effect..17:50
Romsteryeah i got 25MB unused hmm17:50
Romsteri beleave in keeping everything optomised.17:50
treachI belive in correct spelling17:50
* treach runs17:51
treachI guess I could say "I belive in spelling correctly" as well, but I can't see that I mispelled the first sentence in anyway.17:53
treachmeh, *any way*17:54
Romstertreach, ...17:56
treachyes Romster, what can I do for you?17:56
Romstereh nothing now, man you know how to be a smart arse <_<17:58
treachRomster: btw, I realize you take it personally, but actually it isn't. At least not entirely.17:59
treachI *do* belive in spelling correctly, and using proper grammar.17:59
Romsteri'm working on it but yeah it isn't my strong point.18:00
* Romster goes to get a early lunch18:01
nipuLme is learned gooder english from stevie wonders spid redding akadamy18:02
thrice`eh, I dont' think it's a huge deal with informal communication18:04
treachthrice`: bad habits tend to be hard to get rid off. Maybe it's different if it's your native language18:07
thrice`heh...don't tell me you're trying to defend the integrity of us Americans...18:07
treachIntegrity AND american = LOGIC ERROR18:08
thrice`yes...some in my country scare me18:08
thrice`I suppose it's that way everywhere, or I'm just not as aware18:09
treachanything to make a buck, or to avoid thinking.18:09
thrice`or hard work18:09
treachthrice`: yeah. those people are everywhere18:09
nipuLreminds me of this show in australia at the moment "are you smarter than a 5th grader"18:10
thrice`aye, we have that here too18:10
nipuLit's like who wants to be a millionaire but they ask questions a 10 year old can answer18:10
thrice`there are many I get stuck on, embarassingly enough :)18:11
nipuLthen they reward these people for being retarded18:11
nipuLhey your a fucking idiot, here have $50k18:11
nipuLyou're ;)18:12
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schniggiehi all19:28
schniggiesome problems known with java and ?19:34
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