IRC Logs for #crux Wednesday, 2007-11-21

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pitill0good morning01:29
jaegerand it's past time for me to go to bed. good night01:34
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mxq"crux penguins" XD02:31
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DarkNekroshi you all ;)04:58
Romsterhi DarkNekros05:01
Romsterinteresting nickname.05:01
DarkNekrosthanks Romster ;)05:02
Romsteryour welcome. so what can we do for you? are you a crux user?05:02
DarkNekrosRomster, sepen knows me, you can ask him05:03
DarkNekrosthanks Romster05:04
Romsterah i see.05:04
Romsterso just a friend then :)05:04
Romstertrying to brag you into trying crux or something :P05:04
DarkNekrosyes, sepen wants me to try crux05:06
DarkNekrosI did, but I am not as good as him xDD05:07
DarkNekrosand I don't have enough time to spare in :S05:07
Romsterah i wasn't good when i fist got into linux desktops but that's changed now :)05:07
Romsterso you are sick of windows too05:08
DarkNekroswell, I can do somethings, but crux it's a little hard to use05:08
DarkNekrosyes, but unfortunately in my university I have (must, sometimes) to use it05:08
Romsterit is at first.05:09
DarkNekrosthat's not good for health xDDD05:09
Romsterwell crux is a kiss disto and not gonna be hand holding, hope sepen knows what he is doing <_< and i hope you've had linux expeareance too.05:10
DarkNekrosI have some GNU/Linux experience, but sometimes crux it's harder that I thought05:11
DarkNekrosI have the theory, but not the practise and when you are hurry you can't spend time on how it works :S05:11
RedShiftDarkNekros: what's your previous linux experience?05:16
DarkNekrosdebian, ubuntu (my desktop distro), red hat and I think that's all05:17
DarkNekrosand a little of centOS on servers05:18
tilmanare you happy with ubuntu?05:19
DarkNekrostilman, it's not as bad as you think (if you are lucky with xDD)05:20
DarkNekrosand it's easy and faster to use05:20
DarkNekrosbut not as accuracy as I thougth05:20
RedShiftDarkNekros: yeah well those are pretty "hey lets hide everything!" distros05:20
DarkNekrosRedShift, I think so05:21
RedShiftbut in essence crux is so so simple05:21
RedShiftit made me laugh the first time I checked out something like the initscripts05:21
RedShiftI said, that's all?05:21
RedShiftand I saw the light05:21
DarkNekrosyeah, crux it's made simple05:22
DarkNekrosdo you think that you can make some scripts to make it more simple?05:22
RedShiftDarkNekros: why should I?05:23
RedShiftDarkNekros: what exactly don't you understand that needs a script?05:23
DarkNekrosI mean, on network configuration or something like that05:23
DarkNekrosRedShift, well, in fact, when you have to make 1000 times the same thing, it would be esaier to make a simple script to make it for you?05:24
RedShiftman ifconfig and editting the rc.d/network is about as easy as it gets05:25
RedShiftway less complex than for example the debian interfaces file05:25
RedShiftI had to read the manpage ten times before I figured out how to add multiple IP addresses to the same interface05:25
DarkNekrosRedShift, you're right, but that's for experienced people, not for everybody ;)05:27
Romstercrux isn't ment for the average joe blow.05:28
Romsterit's ment for users that got sick of other distros and want KISS05:28
DarkNekrossorry, guys, it's lunch time!!05:29
DarkNekroswe continue later ;)05:29
Romsterand build what they want into there computer, making there own packages if need be.05:29
Romsterand if ya need todo 100 computers you use DHCP <_< can always find ways to minimise the work.05:32
RedShifteverybody wants kung fu fighting!05:32
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nipuLsimple != easy06:28
nipuLas one of my math lecturers always liked to point out06:28
DarkNekrosI'm back :D06:33
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Lancs-cccIs there a hostserv?06:57
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Lancs-cccBah, k07:02
RyoSnuff' said.07:05
Lancs-cccthe big writing?07:06
tilmanmaybe we should take the discussion elsewhere07:06
tilmanlike #debian07:06
tilmanthey probably know about hostserv07:07
Lancs-cccHostserv allows to set vhosts etc07:07
Lancs-ccc[13:07:36] • Whois report for (Lancs-ccc) (
RyoSpretty leet :D07:08
Lancs-cccWhat is crux? xD07:09
RyoSsome really leet linux distro07:11
RyoSdont know exactly either, its pretty unknown like area-5107:11
tilmanas in they keep aliens in crux? :O07:11
RyoSthey even hatch them in crux :O07:12
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namenlosman, why doesn't verisign offer all of their certificates in one zip bundle...07:24
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RedShiftnothing better than a freshly dusted out computer07:40
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RomsterRedShift, a new one maybe better :P but i agree i dusted mine out a few months ago, i walys have to clean the heatsinks out and fans.14:39
RedShifttrue true :D14:39
RedShiftbut this workstation has held up pretty well14:39
RedShiftI think I'll be contuining to use it a long time14:40
Romsterminor issues with this desktop box it's quite old but just keeps going and going.14:42
RedShiftdefine minor issues?14:42
Romsterdefently be a backup when i get a new computer later14:42
Romsterah me puting the video card and hdd on the same power cable making the hdd spin down because it got less than 5 volts was sitting on 4.514:43
Romsteragp slot was dirty froze on 3d graphics, contact cleaner fixed that14:43
Romsterorigional lg dvd burner went bad at reading so i got a new one.14:43
Romsterstuff like that.14:43
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RedShiftwhoah that is of age15:05
Romsteri even have a sata pci card in this pc lol..15:07
Romster<nipuL> simple != easy < hmm i guess 'simple' is only simple to the person that understands something and is easy to them. but not simple to someone that dosn't understand.15:12
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MNKyDethI don't come in here much, but I've been using Crux since it's 2.0 release and I just wanted to say thanks to all the devs and everyone that keeps this distro moving along15:31
jaegerthanks for the feedback, glad to hear it =)15:33
MNKyDethI tried your updated iso this past week and I loved that you had the fb options readily available on it15:34
RomsterMNKyDeth, should drop on more oftern and share your expeareance.15:34
jaegerthe 2.4 iso has been merged with mine recently15:35
MNKyDethCrux was the first distro that just clicked with me, although I have tried many others...... to many to count, sure it's not for the timid or those that can't figure stuff out on their own but for a light fast distro, it rocks :D15:37
Romsterjaeger, i thought it was the other way around?15:38
RomsterMNKyDeth, yeah some learning curve but ya so learn more than the hide it from the user distros.15:38
MNKyDethI remember when I started linux, back on RH8 and 9 uhg horrible experience but I was bound and determined to get full time on linux15:39
tilmanRomster: we imported jaeger's iso into the crux repository, changed a few things here and there, and called it 2.4-test1 :p15:40
MNKyDeththen I found Arch and I liked it but it left me lacking, wanting to do some stuff on my own, and then I saw that Arch was based on Crux at the time and I was like hmm, lets try it out, and it was so much easier to build up the Pkgfile than the way Arch did it back then15:40
jaegerI suppose if you want to nitpick there was no actual MERGING done15:41
jaegeras tilman said15:41
Romstertilman, yeah, i didn't realise jaeger actually used the 2.4 merged to his iso.15:41
Romsteranyways small point.15:42
MNKyDetheverytime I try a different distro now I just wanna kick myself for even thinking about it lol15:42
RomsterMNKyDeth, do you have your ports on the portdb?15:42
MNKyDethno, the few that I build on my own are not stripped down, they add stuff......     like mplayer, I use the frontend on it instead of just cli15:43
MNKyDethfigured since the few that I did deviated from the keep it simple, it wasn't really worth to put them out there15:44
Romsterah i see, well a private ports repo ya can do whatever you like anyways..15:45
Romsteri've recently sepearated my ports so i get less duplicated ones listed. and soem ports i override with my own.15:46
RomsterMNKyDeth, so what do you do on your desktop? anything fancy?15:47
MNKyDethhonestly, I am a Linux gamer15:47
MNKyDethbut I use Crux on my work computer and my home computer15:47
MNKyDethuse debian on my server as the other linux person here just had to have it, but debian is nice for a server15:48
MNKyDethI use kde and/or gnome flip back and forth, I was sad the day E16 left the repo's, maybe I should do that lol. I know E17 is hopefully around the corner but I have a soft spot for e1615:49
Romsterah i see..15:51
Romsterlinux gamer hmm i'm into some games myself15:51
Romstermaybe you got some i haven't heard of yet <_<15:52
Romsteri'm big on music varity too.15:52
MNKyDethwell, games was the biggest hangup when I first came linux. So I bought over half of all the commercial games on and all the ones on and I have other various commercial games that don't get sold on those sites like krabbits world15:53
Romsterah. you use wine by any chance?15:53
MNKyDethI still have a cedega subscription wich gets used like maybe once a year and I have tried wine with a few games15:54
MNKyDethI prefer not to use wine or cedega though15:54
Romsterah i see15:54
jaegerI just started using wine with world of warcraft a few days ago, runs better than with cedega now :P15:55
Romsteri'm gonna use ReactOS if it works good with games.15:55
tilmanwine has come a loooong way15:55
jaegerindeed it has15:55
Romsterjaeger, lol neat.15:55
tilmanin 2001 i tried to get half life/counter strike working15:55
tilmanomg, that was fun15:55
MNKyDethyeah, I actually just started playing wow...... my clan members all left Savage: The battle for newerth for it and well I moved with them, started playing about a month ago15:55
MNKyDethI found that if using DX cedega was better but if using opengl wine was better for the emulation15:56
Romsteri get stuff loading up slow but works once loaded. and i got no composite so i dunno my issue there.15:56
Romsterisn't a emulater :P15:56
MNKyDethwell.... lol15:56
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MNKyDethyou know what I meant15:56
jaegermust figure out how to fix this delete key isusue on the macbook15:57
Romsterbut yeah translating DX to opengl.15:57
MNKyDethi try not to buy any games unless they are linux commercial native15:57
jaegerMNKyDeth: I used to hate opengl mode with wow, now that's how I run it with wine since it's much faster currently15:58
Romsteri had a url someware of a project that would covert binare exe's to native linux code as a compiler, but i lost the url or it's buryied someware in my bookmarks.15:58
tilmanRomster: that's the "new" project with the strange name, right?15:58
Romsterhoping wine will run all the games i used to do on windows.15:59
Romstertilman, i think so.15:59
MNKyDethI would think you were a gamer jaeger a you have the most of the game related ports in contrib, right?15:59
Romsterit wasn't very far into the project.15:59
MNKyDethteamspeak and quake4 and such15:59
jaegerI have a few, yeah15:59
* Romster has a few in contrib too15:59
Romsterbrb food, tilman be great to know the url of that site. if it is the one i'm thinking of.16:00
tilmanRomster: i foud it quite rtarded that they wanted to start from scratch again16:00
MNKyDethoh btw, please never go to that bastardized version of Firefox all the other distro's seem to be going to, iceweasel, it's so hard to use for plugins and everything, keep it the way it is :)16:01
tilmandepends on whether they sue us16:02
MNKyDethbut you have opera in the repo too lol, I figured they would have come already if it was an issue16:03
MNKyDethI don't know if the ports repo server is in the US anyways, most of that stuff in null if hosted outside the US16:05
tilmanthey are hosted in sweden16:07
MNKyDethwell... no worries then16:07
MNKyDethmay I make one suggestion, you guys prolly really hate that though :/ for the 2.4 iso, a feature request, wpa_supplicant would be sweet, I wouldn't have to keep a pre-built package on another cd16:10
RedShiftMNKyDeth: you can always remaster the install ISO yourself to include whatever you need16:12
RedShifteasy as pie16:12
Romstertilman, yeah when there is ReactOS and Wine code about...16:13
MNKyDethRedShift, I must have missed those instructions... are they on the website RedShift ?16:13
RomsterMNKyDeth, it's easay to not use something and use something else, but hmm iceweasel... is that the firefox2?16:13
Romstererr firefox3*16:14
tilmanwe're already shipping wireless-tools16:14
MNKyDethiceweasel is firefox with all the stuff removed and changed just enough where they can't call it firefox anymore, they took all the proprietary stuff out16:14
RedShiftMNKyDeth: dunno :)16:14
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MNKyDethtilman, yes, and it's much appreciated :D but if using encryption wireless-tools is not enough to establish a wireless connection16:15
RedShiftyou can always just hook up an ethernet cable for the install...16:15
MNKyDethyeah, that's what I did te first time, then I just kept the other package I needed pre-made on a seperate cd for those install occasions16:16
tilmanjaeger: objections re. wpa_supplicant?16:16
RomsterMNKyDeth, oh...16:17
MNKyDethlucky I work in IT and we had a 1000ft spool I could make a 200ft cable from :D16:17
tilmanwhat's the max. length for ethernet cable?16:18
RedShifttilman: 100 meters16:18
tilmanthought so :D16:18
Romster90meters solid core +10 meters of stranded.16:18
RedShiftmetric system ftw16:19
tilmandamn technobabble16:19
Romstermight work longer but i wouldn't recomend it without a repeater.16:19
tilmanrofl, xkcd is just too good16:19
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tilmancreating a blogosphere just above the tag clouds :D16:20
tilman345 ftw <3 <3 <316:21
MNKyDethwell guys, it was nice chatting with you, I must take my leave though as it's time for me to leave work :D and again, I appreciate everyone keeping this distro alive and well, it pwns >.<16:22
Romsterso far i'm not liking the apng crap there doing to firefox316:22
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Romsterlol thats wicked, must link to xkcd16:25
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Toshithat's just called studying16:59
Toshisorry, I have problems17:00
Romsterwrong window?17:08
Toshiyeah, I look at one window and type thinking my computer will just know what I want it to do17:09
treachheh, one window / viritual desktop?17:10
ToshiI just haven't figured out how to use my computer, don't mind me17:12
ToshiI ran rejmerge the other day and locked myself out of my computer via ssh the other day17:15
ToshiIt was funny17:15
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treachnew variant, usually that happens when you screw up your iptables. :/17:19
Romsterdon't remind me the number of times i've done that.17:20
Romsternwo i run a command to revert a change after a minute or so before i make a change perminate.17:21
ToshiAnd it's always so confusing...  Why isn't my password working damnit?17:21
treachyou updated your /etc/passwd file?17:21
treach(wich means you overwrote your old, working file..)17:21
Toshilesson learned17:22
treachmystery solved. that's why there is a "merge" function.17:22
ToshiI love crux17:24
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ToshiI wasn't so bad because I had just wiped out my computer to do a clean upgrade to 2.317:28
rehabdolluh, why wipe?17:29
Toshibecause i didn't know how to manage my ports before17:29
rehabdollone of my crux-boxes still has traces of slackware in it :)17:30
ToshiI think that'd get to me17:30
Romsteri'm sure i got traces of crux 2.1 on my boxes.17:30
rehabdollthat box started out with slackware and later ports and the pkgtools17:31
rehabdollonly moving from slackwares glibc to crux's gave a slight headache :)17:32
ToshiAre you guys all in Europe?17:36
treachmost of us, yes17:36
ToshiDo you get funny looks when you say you use Crux out there?17:37
rehabdolli just say i use gnu :)17:38
treachFew people knows there's anything but windows. So in generla I just say I don't use windows.17:39
rehabdollwich probably results in more wierld looks :(17:39
treach"What, you don't use windows? Your computer works without it?"17:40
treachLikewise, writing documents without using Word is a complete enigma.17:41
ToshiOne of my friends was puzzled and asked me, "Why don't you use Ubuntu?"17:44
RedShiftToshi: you punched him right?17:48
ToshiI should have17:48
RedShiftI always give people my weird stare when they ask questions like that17:48
RedShiftone of my school teachers asked the class how they backup their outlook17:49
RedShiftI gave my weird stare and he changed his question, how do you backup your email17:49
RedShiftmy stare actually works17:50
RedShiftbut I can only do it when I get asked a question like that17:50
RedShiftotherwise I can't reproduce it17:50
* treach presses the submit button with weird stare.17:50
ToshiI was at a linux user group meeting the other day and one of the speakers couldn't believe that my firefox doesn't crash randomly.17:51
RedShiftmost of them assume when you use linux, you use firefox17:51
RedShiftI tell them I use opera, "oh ok..."17:51
treachhe's probably using some dodgy extension, or his .mozilla dir contains some crap.17:52
ToshiI like to think it's Ubuntu17:52
treachRedShift: midori looks interesting.17:52
RedShiftbut for the time I use it, I haven't got any stability issues with firefox too17:52
* RedShift looks up17:52
RedShiftlooks nice17:53
treachat least hope for something useable that isn't firefox.17:53
RedShifttreach: epiphany? *evil*17:53
treachthat's gnome17:54
treachand gnome sucks.17:54
RedShifttreach: our thoughts were one at 00:5417:54
ToshiI just installed gnome, it locks up my keyboard occasionally17:54
RedShiftToshi: and you have to click somewhere and then it works again?17:55
ToshiIt's weird, I have to hold down the key for about a second then it will work17:56
Toshiuntil I log out17:56
RedShiftmeh I never liked gnome/gtk17:56
ToshiI'll probably just switch back to bb17:57
treachI don't mind gtk per se, but gnome is a mess.17:57
RedShiftI switched to kde and I almost cried that there *does* exist decent software17:57
RedShiftI like a fully fledged desktop17:57
treachmmh, kopete could use a ton of bug-fixes, or two.17:58
RedShiftI need it because I use alot of the functionality17:58
Toshiwhat does "fully fledged" mean?17:58
RedShiftthat's why I hate gnome, always hiding stuff, have to click too much to get somewhere17:58
RedShiftToshi: fully equipped17:58
treachFully integrated applications in a defined framework. ;)17:58
Toshiah ok17:58
RedShiftand kde and apps are consistent17:59
treachand extremely integrated.17:59
RedShiftgnome and gtk apps are a mess at that17:59
RedShiftin the days I used gnome I had to remember keyboard shortcuts for like... 10 "do you want to save?" dialogues17:59
Toshionly thing from gnome I'll miss is run app dialog, is there a standalone software that does that?17:59
RedShiftToshi: are you using kde now?17:59
treachgnome is so bad they actually have to put claims on applications that are in no way associated with it just to make it look like something. :D18:00
RedShiftgnome has a launcher thing18:00
RedShiftctrl+f2 IIRC18:00
RedShiftor alt+f2 could be too18:00
ToshiI know, I like that, I want something like that for bb18:00
treachthere are standalone gtk stuff for that too.18:00
RedShifthey you know what's fun with gnome? try launching a program with a keyboard shortcut18:00
treachgtkrun I think.18:01
RedShiftthere's no way you can do that18:01
Toshitreach: thanks18:01
RedShifttreach: kioslaves are so ftw18:01
RedShiftonce you go kioslave, you never go back18:01
treachwell, I did.. :p18:02
treachbut I'm currently back in kde again.18:02
RedShiftgnome has gnome-vfs but it's nowhere near as good as kioslave18:02
treachnot sure when I'll let go of it again18:02
Toshiokay, so I need to try out kde18:02
treachif you want a full desktop that actually works, yeah.18:03
RedShiftToshi: don't be affraid the first time. everything looks so big and all. Just open up kcontrol and start modifying18:03
Romsterwhat on earth bmp was using so much ram like 300MB or so...18:03
Romstermsut have a memory leak..18:03
roliveiramy sister likes kde :P18:03
Romsteryeah beep-media-player18:04
RedShiftIMHO that's a pretty clean desktop18:04
Romsteri'm runing kde but i dabble with other WM's too.18:04
ToshiI have kde at work, but I haven't taken to it.  I'll give it a shot18:04
RedShiftso I'm going to bed18:07
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Toshiwish I would have had this conversation before I took a day to compile gnome18:09
Romsterkde takes some time to compile too.18:11
Romsterthat pointing pkgmk work directory to a tempfs was a sweet idea only anoyance is it's not in the same directory as the Pkgfile when ya bulid a port be nice if pkgmk would add a symlink..18:11
ToshiThanksgiving weekend over here!18:11
treachThurday over here!18:12
treachman, I'm getting pissed off by this.18:13
treachevery time I move a fricking window, the cpu fan spins up. :/18:13
RomsterGPU arn't doing its job ?18:13
treachno, bad drivers18:13
treachhopefully I'll get another adapter soon.18:14
treachI've ordered a 8500.18:14
Romstershould do the trick.18:18
treachhopefully yes.18:18
treachI figured it would be worth a 100 of your dollars. ;)18:18
Romstermoving a window shouldn't use that much cpu lol18:19
Romsteri'd hae to see a movie play18:19
treachactually, that works.18:19
treachXV works.18:19
Romstercost me $149 for a7600gs agp18:19
Romsterthat's even more crazy of a driver18:19
ToshiI bought a little tablet pc the other day that had vista on it, poor little guy18:20
treachcomputers clearly need their version of the PETA18:20
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treach"People for Ethical Treatment of Computers" (in lieu of Animals)18:45
nipuLi know18:49
nipuL"Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair"18:49
treachI know ;)18:50
nipuLbut i'm all for unethical treatment of computers18:50
nipuLjust don't let the morons touch them18:50
treachdamn, putting vista on a poor tablet? Have you no heart?18:50
ToshiIt's pretty sad when you have to wait 15 seconds for notepad to open18:54
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jaegersepen: are you here?21:58
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jaegeranyone know what undefined reference to `cfg_free' might mean? I'm having trouble finding anything useful via google22:37
jaegernot sure what library/package cfg_free would require22:37
mwansato use cfg_free you need libConfuse22:43
mwansa <_<22:44
jaegerwhich I have installsed22:44
jaegerI thought at first maybe the 2.x version was not backwards-compatible with the 1.x but the requirements list 2.522:45
jaegerah ha! I think it's because libconfuse was not building a shared lib22:49
Romsterlol that could be it22:52
jaegeryeah, pretty slick22:52
Romsteror the *.la file is missing22:53
Romsterwith anyluck it's --enable-shared22:53
mwansajaeger did ya pass the --enable-shared flag22:53
Romsterunless there are bigger issues, i haven't seen anything that disables dynamic libs except for some program22:54
jaegermwansa: yes22:55
jaegerRomster: libconfuse only builds static by default22:55
Romsterlol thats great..22:56
Romsteri prefer todisable static and use only dynamic22:56
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jaegerpommed doesn't want to run anyway... "E: No suitable event devices found"22:59
jaegernot sure if that means acpi, input, etc.22:59
Romsterhmm maybe dbus?23:00
jaegerdunno, that's all the output I get23:00
Romstergoogle return anything?23:00
jaegernot exactly what I want... a bug report that only applies to macbooks, not macbook pros23:00
Romsternot handy at all.23:01
jaegerthat does remind me that I need to move dbus' config stuffs at some point23:02
jaegerah, it looks like evdev23:03
Romsterusr/etc/ yeah should be in /etc23:04
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Romsteralthough all stuff not in core should use /usr/etc ?23:10
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