IRC Logs for #crux Monday, 2007-11-26

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pitillogood morning01:26
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tilmanmorning02:03
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DarkNekroshi you all ;)04:32
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RedShiftaaah yes, the joy of compiling kernels05:47
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namenlosjust a short question: if you would install a kernel package (not the one from the install iso), would you expect /usr/src/linux to be updated, too?06:36
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clarehi tilman07:02
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Romsternamenlos, nope07:13
namenlosRomster: just for my understanding: why not?07:15
Romsterno need unless you got some programs that need the running kernel and not the kernel headers that were used to compile glibc07:16
namenlosmhm... was only a thought. because when i used my linux kernel package i had problems installing the propetary nvidia driver...07:18
tilmanclb: HI07:18
tilmanoops07:18
tilmaneh07:18
tilmano_O07:18
Romsternamenlos, ah..07:19
Romsterlol tilman07:21
namenlosRomster: it needed the kernel sources, but those where linked somewhere to $PKGMK_WORK directory :(. i should fix that...07:22
Romsteryeah you should :P07:23
Romsteri can't see much point in a pkgfile of the kernel..07:23
Romster$ ls /usr/src/07:24
Romsterlinux-2.6.17.14  linux-2.6.2307:24
Romsteri just keep 2 the older one becasue of some drivers that don't work and as a fall back driver when i break the later one07:24
Romsteri dont' use a symlink to /usr/src/linux07:24
Romsternamenlos, i guess you could do $PKG//usr/src/linux-`uname -r`/...07:26
Romsterfor *.h files.07:26
Romsteri haven't tryed but i'm expecting it's onl after header files and it could work ok if pointed to /usr/include/linux maybe...07:27
namenlosRomster: the problem was, that it was following the /lib/modules/`uname -r`/build link to get the kernel sources...07:27
namenloswhich pointed to somewhere in $SRC ..07:28
Romsterrun sed over it..07:28
namenlosi would have to change the nvidia port, which i do not want to do...07:30
Romstereh then ditch messing with a packaged kernel then...07:30
Romsterthought the nvidia port uses /usr/include/linux anyways?07:31
namenlosdoesn't seem so.,07:32
Romsterhmm KBUILD_SRC=/usr/src/linux-2.6.17.1407:34
Romstermaybe it might work if pointed to /usr/include/linux ?07:35
Romsterworth a try07:35
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namenlosin the kernel Make file?07:42
namenlosyes, i guess i will have to mess with those variables...07:43
Romsterah how about a symlink lndir /usr/include/linux $PKG/usr/src/linux ?07:45
Romsterno idea if it would work...07:45
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namenlosyes, i also thought about changing the symlinks afterwards07:47
namenlosbut you would never know, whether you changed everything..07:47
Romsterthat way it's less effort.07:47
Romsterif that does indeed work,07:47
namenloswill have to experiment a little bit with that...07:48
namenlosbut thx for your advices.07:48
Romsteryeah worth a try.07:48
Romsternamenlos, do let me know what you find, i'd like to know too.07:48
namenlosk07:49
Romsterfor rights programs should link to the glibc kernel headers.07:53
Romsterisn't that right tilman?07:54
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tilmanRomster?10:44
tilmanrights programs? i don't understand10:44
Romsterkernel headers all programs should use the ones in /usr/include/linux right?10:48
Romsterbut nvidia dosn't.10:48
Romsternor do some other programs.10:48
tilmannvidia probably uses whatever is in /lib/modules/`uname -r`/source10:50
tilmanbut that should be fine, too10:50
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Romstergrr i hate this pkgmk issue... i set a working dir and i can't build more than one program at a time now10:52
Romsterstupid thing don't prefix the portname as a directory10:52
tilman...10:53
Romsterit picks up KBUILD_SRC=/usr/src/linux-2.6.17.1410:53
tilmanPKGMK_WORK_DIR="/dev/shm/pkgmk-work-$name"10:53
tilmanis what i use10:53
Romsterthe pkgmk might be my misconfig..10:53
Romsterah i didn't add a $name...10:54
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tilmantreach: btw, new board is working like a charm. this bios also exports the temperature data properly \o11:35
tilmantreach: and interesting enough, i *have* to use sata_ahci even though abit says they don't support ahci... sata_nv doesn't work. didn't investigate yet though11:36
Romstertilman, glad it works. so scratch that other board as a upgrade option <_<11:39
tilmanRomster: also, i did _not_ damage the cpu when i ripped it out of the other board :D11:41
Romsterdidn't think so, i did say i've done that a few times and not damaged any.11:41
Romsternot to say it's a wise thing todo.11:42
RedShifttilman: you can usually configure that in the BIOS11:44
RedShiftbah11:44
RedShiftmy cellphone is broken11:45
RedShiftone of the keys doesn't work anymore11:45
RomsterRedShift, damn11:50
Romsteri'll be on later11:50
RedShiftI hate the whole produce to break economy11:50
RedShiftI'm willing to pay, give me a decent cellphone :X11:50
Romsteri'm sick of shit that isn't worth fixing.11:51
Romstersomethings are a few bucks to  a few hundered and ya can buy a new one for less than it would to buy all the parts or even some of... how does that work?11:52
Romsterot6her than the bulk buy factor.11:52
Romsteranyways later..11:53
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treachtilman: nice, which board did you get in the end?12:48
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tilmantreach: abit an5212:49
treachah.12:49
treachlet's hope it works longer for you than my abit did for me. :S12:50
tilmanomg, i don't want to know!! :D12:50
treachhehe12:50
treachhopefully they are using better components now.12:51
treachlooks pretty clean at least12:52
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tilmanfwiw the slot layout seems very sane12:53
treachyeah.12:53
treachnot a lot of huge caps sitting near the cpu either.12:53
treachwhich cooler did you get btw?12:54
tilmannoctua uhf-9 or something12:54
treachah12:54
treachk, I've been looking at that one as well.12:54
tilmantakes some time to assemble it/attach it to the board12:55
tilmanbut it's awesome12:55
tilmandon't hear the fan at all12:55
treachabout the only one without stupid leds it seems. :P12:55
tilmanunfortunately my radeon's fan sucks. i *have* to replace it eventually12:55
tilmanmaybe for christmas ;)12:55
treachheh12:55
treachI actually decided to get a fanless nv that hopefully will last until the radeon drivers are ready.12:56
tilmanthere's fanless nvidia cards? :o12:57
treachyup12:57
treachsome asus 8500.12:57
tilmansounds expensive :D12:57
treachnah.12:58
treachabout 60 euro.12:58
tilman:)12:59
tilmanseems the used x800 that i bought has a buggy video bios12:59
treachhehe12:59
tilmanthe 2nd output isn't initialized correctly often. and the current driver seems to rely on the vbios to do it...12:59
treachnice13:00
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treach"julpyssel"13:00
tilmanthat's what i thought ;)13:00
treach:p13:00
treachNot sure how to translate that, but I guess you got the geist of it.13:01
treach;)13:01
tilmanno, and i'm too lazy to ask the swedish schoolnet right now13:02
tilman:>13:02
treachseems to be down ftm.13:02
* tilman hytter med naven13:02
tilmanbtw, the sound chip on the AN52 seems to not be supported in 2.6.23 yet13:03
tilmanbut my sb live works \o13:03
treachbasically, it's stuff you sit down and do for christmas, like making stuff to hang in the christmas tree, etc.13:03
treachwhee.13:03
tilmantreach: what does that have to do with buggy video bioses?13:04
tilmani won't replace it for christmas :p13:04
tilman"christmas preparations"13:04
treachnot quite. pyssla -> "herumpusslen".13:06
treachpusseln, even13:07
treachand I was thinking about fixing the driver. ;)13:07
tilmanmaybe13:07
treachjust kidding. :)13:08
tilmani've had enough messing-with-hardware for a while13:08
treachI can sympathize with that. :)13:08
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claretilman: Hi, my problem fixed by a line 'DefaultDepth 16' in Section Screen13:30
clarebut i have 2 errors in /usr/share/vim/vimrc  is that only for me?13:32
tilmanwhat errors? :p13:32
tilmani didn't see anything fwiw13:32
treachheh, special delivery vimrc. :p13:33
claretilman: http://paste.lisp.org/display/5141413:43
claretreach: hi, thanks; but too true, I have special silliness in yapo too13:45
treachheh13:45
tilmanthe reason i didn't see that is that i never un "vi" -- only "vim :D13:45
tilmanerr, run13:45
treachclare: I think it might be that you're calling "vi"13:46
treachafaik, that means vim goes in vi comp mode13:46
tilmanyup13:47
clarewell vim is saying Press ENTER or type command to continue just like vi13:49
treach:/13:49
clareAND that file /usr/share/vim/vimrc doesn't give a choice it sets nocompatible, why is it called anyway?13:51
treachyou've got to have the defaults somewhere..13:51
treachtry overriding it in your local ~/.vimrc instead13:52
clarebut vim comes up colored and vi doesn't so it behaves as I expect that way13:52
clarewhich is good becasue those colors are incredibly hard to read on mos t of my machines13:53
tilmanit seems a bit strange that "vi" evaluates vimrc13:54
claretreach: I am incurably lazy,13:54
treach:)13:55
treachclare: see the colorscheme command if the colours are hard to see13:55
claretilman: not only that it is an "example" file13:55
treachit even works with tab completition iirc13:55
claretreach: thanks I did think one day I must find how to fix it13:55
treachjust put it in your .vimrc13:56
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treach"colorscheme koehler" for instance13:56
* treach uses clmar256-dark. :)13:56
treach*calmar13:56
tilmanzenburn ftw (gui at least)13:57
treachugh. gvim..13:57
treach*pukes*13:58
claretreach: I tried that and it said Canot find color scheme calmar256-dark14:05
treachof course not14:06
treachhttp://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=180714:06
clareNever mind I can use vi..14:06
treachthe .vim file goes in ~/.vim/colors14:07
tilmanwhoa, that's pretty green14:09
claretreach: thank you I will take some time later to read it carefully14:11
treachnp14:11
claredoes anyone else use yapo?14:12
treachIt suits me, but everyone has their own taste, after all.14:12
tilmanwhat's wrong with yapo?14:13
treachdepends on ruby, it's not prt-get. Anything else? ;)14:15
clarehttp://paste.lisp.org/display/51414#1    (re yapo)14:18
treachyapo doesn't look in MPART2/* ?14:19
clareyapo problem is not new it was like that in 2.3 but not 2.214:19
claretreach: it plainly know where it is, just doesnt tell pkgadd14:19
treachaye14:20
treachlooks like a bug to me. have you asked jue about it?14:20
clarenot recently, cant remember earlier..14:21
treachok14:21
clarebut it is OK for you?14:22
treachI don't use yapo. :)14:22
tilmanuh14:23
clareSorry, I thought you said you did; (surprised me)14:23
tilmanyapo just calls prt-get install foo14:23
clareIf only - so why doesn't it happen?14:24
tilmanyou tried to install python in yapo?14:25
RedShiftlol at be.comp.networking: "Why do we call Frames as Frames in Data link layer?"14:27
clareyes, just now. it came back and said already installed, which was confusing, but I thoguht i must have done it twice.14:27
clareis python on the CD?14:27
claretilman: i just used that as an example, yapo always behaves the same,14:28
tilmanclare: then try whether "prt-get install blah" works or whether it errors out like yapo14:29
treachbbbbbbaaaaaaaaaaaaaattttttttteeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeeessssssssssssss   ddddddddddddddyyyyyyyyyyyyyyiiiiiiiiiing ggggrrr14:29
tilmanhohoho14:31
claretiman: prt-get     http://paste.lisp.org/display/51414#214:39
claretilman: sorry14:40
tilmanti<tab> ;)14:41
tilmanor t<tab><tab>14:41
tilmanclare: does the file exist!? :)14:42
claretilman,  I carefully just made it with pkgmk you can see the  line in the paste "=======> Buildin ......succeeded"14:44
clareand my normalk approach is to highlight that location from that line and write pkgadd then the location14:45
tilmanthat's what the stupid software is claiming! but does the file *really* exist?14:45
pitilloclare, pkgadd pkg or prt-get install $name?14:47
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claretilman,   as real as I can get:    http://paste.lisp.org/display/51414#314:51
tilmanmmh, what next14:54
clarepitillo,  i use pkgadd14:55
claretilman,  I have to go outside and clean horseyard, more another day..,, cheers, clare14:55
tilmanclare: i'll see whether i can find something in yapo14:56
claretilman,  thanks, if not here i am  clare.at.perth.dialix.com.au14:57
tilmanok14:57
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tilmanoh doh15:05
tilman"prt-get install /blah/blah#blabla.tar.gz"15:05
tilmanhow very unsurprising that that doesn't work15:06
thrice`oh?15:11
tilmanthrice`: you cannotuse prt-get install with a package *file* name15:12
thrice`ooh, right15:13
pitillothat was my point with my question.... xD15:17
tilman:>15:18
tilmanif you're bored: there's some flaming going on at planet.gnome.org15:18
morlenxustilman: Is there a patch for xorg numlock led bug?15:34
thrice`it's on the ML somewhere15:35
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tilmanyou would have found it sooner with google than by asking me15:36
tilmangitweb.freedesktop.org xserver .. server-1.4-branch has it15:36
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clarehi tilman?16:44
tilmanclare: can you change line 784 of /usr/bin/yapo to this:16:47
tilmansystem("strace -eopen #{command}")16:47
tilmanthis will give lots of output16:47
tilmancan you log and paste it somewhere?16:47
clarewill do in a minutee, but remember asking me about prt-get and that shows same problem; I suspect jue may have said something like thaqt months back.16:48
tilmanah, godo16:48
tilmangood16:48
tilmanmmmmhhmh16:48
tilmanclare: so "prt-get install python" errors out, too?16:48
tilmanand if you run "pkgadd path/to/the/file" afterwards, it's working?16:49
clareyes http://paste.lisp.org/display/51414#216:49
clarenot python, but any file is the same16:49
tilmanwell16:50
tilmanin that paste, you ran prt-get install foo.pkg.tar.gz16:50
tilmanthat won't work16:50
clarewhy16:51
tilmanprt-get install works with a package *name* ;P16:51
tilmannot a package *file*16:51
tilmanie this would work: prt-get install antiword16:51
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claretilman,   this one shows same failure   http://paste.lisp.org/display/51414#417:02
tilmanclare: okay. does the same thing happen when you type "prt-get install aterm"?17:04
claretilman,  I said:   prt-get install aterm | tee prtgetaterm    u.e. thaqt is what I did17:05
tilmanah, okay17:05
tilmanthought that paste was from yapo17:06
tilmanclare: can you paste your prt-get.conf?17:06
tilmani don't really get that error17:07
claretilman,   http://paste.lisp.org/display/51414#5   I told you I attract errors..  if everyon got this it would havwe been fixed.  is ther a log for prt-get?17:08
tilmanclare: i mean, can you paste /etc/prt-get.conf? %)17:10
tilmanbut yeah17:10
tilmanplease run:17:10
claretilman,  http://paste.lisp.org/display/51414#617:11
tilmanstrace -- prt-get install aterm17:11
tilmanactually17:11
tilmanstrace -o strace.output -- prt-get install aterm17:11
tilmanand then paste strace.output17:11
claretilman,  115K of it?17:14
tilmanyeah17:14
claretilman,  I am not sure how to do that,  just occasionally as I highlight something and drag down I get it all but utually I have to do it a page at a time17:17
tilmanclare: you can send the file to tilman@crux.nu, too17:17
claretilman,  I have sent it from work machine, dialix didnt accept it17:26
claretilman,  this time I had better quit and go to work,  hope you find somehting17:26
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morlenxustilman: Question about the numlock led was more targeting why it isn't applied to the port?17:35
tilmanmorlenxus: the voices of the suffering were too silent until now. 1.4.1 is going to be released this or next week, which will fix the issue17:38
tilmannight17:38
tilmannow, bed.17:38
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Romsteri compalined when i first found it.... <_<17:39
morlenxusHave a good sleep.17:39
treachhaha17:39
Romstermorlenxus, i've made a patched port in my xorg directory http://romster.shortcircuit.net.au/crux/17:40
Romsterquite awhile ago.17:40
treachthat entire numerical part of the keyboard could be entirely eliminated, it's just waste of space.17:40
Romstertilman, could of patched it and jsut not uped the revision number imo.17:41
Romstertreach, i find it quite handy...17:41
morlenxusRomster: Thanks, but i was only interesting why it wasn't applied. :)17:41
Romsterwhat i hate is the insert key being so bloody close to the backspace key.17:42
Romstermorlenxus, yeah what tilman said about that.17:42
treachRomster: I recently switched keyboard, the keys were worn blank everywhere -- except for the numerical and the edit keys. They were as new. ;D17:42
Romsteranyone made an attempt at new kde yet? treach?17:43
Romsterlol17:43
treachInsert...? hm ' is a bigger problem17:43
Romsterhrmm edit keys..17:43
Romsterthen group of 6 of home end page up/down ... ?17:43
treach(it's above rshift just right of the enter key. :/ )17:43
treachyeah17:44
Romsteryeah insert on this keyboard is very close to backspace and i hit it sometimes, also there is no darn led for it.17:44
RomsterO_o17:44
treachI hate the guy who stuck ' so close to enter. :S17:44
Romsteri never use scroll lock so maybe there could be a way to patch it to the insert key.17:45
Romsteryeah17:45
Romstersave plastic and money i guess17:45
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treachI have no idea why. Damned stupid17:45
Romsteri'm seriosuly looking for a more spaced out keyboard for my next one when ever i see one i like.17:45
treachImo they could have put ยง or some other rarely used char there17:46
Romsterand without the windoze keys <_<17:46
treachindeed17:46
treachbillys ego keys17:46
Romsteri poped them off my keyboard <_<17:46
Romsteryeah17:46
Romsterhell the menu key near alt i don't even use i should pop that off too.17:47
Romsteri was hapy with just alt ctl and space bar on the last line.17:47
Romsterhappy*17:48
treachpopping them is of little use unless you can replace them with properly sized replacements17:48
Romsteroh yeah and my functions keys are so close to the number keys on the top row.17:48
Romsteryeah true..17:48
treachI'd love to get a hhkb, but alas they only come with english layout17:49
Romsterhmm i wonder it would be expensive but ya can get plastic parts made...17:49
Romsterah17:49
treachdid you consider getting one of those "das keyboard"s? :p17:49
treachafaik, no windows keys there. :p17:50
Romsteri had a keyboard i worn the letters off, only reason i replaced it was my 2 brothers didn't know where the keys were17:50
treachthat's no reason to replace it!17:50
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treachthat's an excellent reason to keep it. :D17:51
Romsterhehe17:51
Romsterit was just as bad as this one for layout..17:51
Romsteractually i thought of that blank keyboard.17:51
Romsterdosn't suffer the function keys being too close problem.. but insert still seems close to backspace and needless keys on bottom row.17:53
Romsteri've even looked at egonomic keyboards can't see anything i fancy17:53
treachwell, hitting insert accidentally...17:53
treachI think there are worse scenarios17:53
Romstertrue it's an anoyance factor.17:54
treachI liked my logitech desktop comfort, until the keyboard rather abruptly died17:54
Romsterminor but it anoyed me.17:54
Romsterand them keyboards that had 9 keys or a larger delete key bugd me too as i'm used to a set layout without looking17:55
Romsterdamn.17:55
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treachhaha, "Logictech Classic Keyboard 200" "Focus on: Spill safety" :D18:02
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treach /bye ZzzZzz18:07
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capkhello quick question ,i have been looking search ,googling ,foruming ,browsing ftp/http servsr for the best solution for a g3 300 mghz and i still have hard time to guess what would be the easiest distribution to use. Note i already tried unbuntu ppc and it faile during the boot time with some sort of memory thing.i didn't want to look futher into it guessing i might fine a more suitable Distrib.Any idea ?19:17
capkand if possible could you point to the iso file thank you19:18
jaegerI would have tried ubuntu first but since that didn't work, perhaps yellow dog?19:18
jaegerhttp://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/products/ydl/19:19
jaegerI don't have a ppc, though, so I don't know if it's good these days19:20
treachyellow dog, debian and fedora would be my bets.19:20
Romsterthee is crux ppc but no ideahow maintained it is and it'll be slow to compile on that.19:34
thrice`source based distros on a 300 mhz might not be "easy" too :)19:41
Romsteri've had crux on a 266MHz pc :P19:50
treachthe crux-ppc people seem to be oddballs. :/20:00
treachI don't even know where they are nowadays, apparently their site is a bit unreliable as well. :/20:01
Romsterah noticed a few asked about crux-ppc iso being hard to get.20:02
treachmmh, and where do you get hold of these guys?20:03
treachacrux is the only one I know who usually pops in here now and then20:03
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nipuLhas #crux-ppc died?20:22
treachnobody there last time I checked.20:25
treachmigth have been a coincidence though20:26
nipuLpop quiz, what size is a socket a fan?20:26
Romsterno one sits in #crux64 even...20:26
treachdepends on what cooler you're using, I presume. :p20:27
nipuLRomster: lol oops20:27
nipuLoem20:27
nipuLi ithnk it's 60mm but not 100% sure20:27
treachmmh. got one to measure?20:28
jaegerhttp://www.directron.com/foxconn370a.html <-- 60mm for this one20:28
Romstermost cpu fans thesedays are 80mm20:28
Romsterwell i got a 80mm on a k720:29
treachI'm trying to find a good one for my athlon x2. Not that easy20:29
treachstupid LED's and whatever. :/20:29
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* treach eyes an noctua, but damn, 87/103 USD for a cpu cooler is expensive. :/20:37
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nipuLwhat does it do?20:40
treachIt's silent. And supposedly the fan is of good quality as well.20:41
nipuLis it made of 24ct gold?20:42
treachOne might think so. :/20:43
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