IRC Logs for #crux Monday, 2007-12-03

brian|lfsthe nvidia driver compiles now00:00
brian|lfsjust can't see my console lol00:01
Romsterso you need to fix the console driver setting then..00:04
Romsterso nvidia didn't like that older kernel?00:04
brian|lfsI have to recompile anyhow00:05
Romsteri have nvidia on here..00:05
brian|lfsI had forgetten to install my modules00:05
mwansaproblem isnt with old kernal00:05
mwansapossibly your old config00:05
Romsteri guess it was..00:05
brian|lfswill anyhow the nvidia driver worked until I realized I didn't install my other moudles and after I installed them it messed them up00:08
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treachyay, back in Crux. :)00:11
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brian|lfswhy did you have to leave Crux00:13
brian|lfsthis sucks I can't figure out what option is making my monitor not display nothign00:14
brian|lfsand I used my old config00:14
treachNvidia drivers?00:15
Romsterbrian|lfs, reinstall the nvidia driver and sue gl-select again i guess.00:17
treachthat's a bit of an overkill, isn't it? :P00:17
Romstertreach, why would you wanna leave crux <<00:17
Romsteri like overkill <<00:17
treachRomster: dude, I don't think it'll work any better if you try *suing* your drivers..00:18
Romsterinstead of pussy footing aorund.00:18
brian|lfsI didn't have any display before I installed the nvidia driver00:18
brian|lfswill I did before I messed with my kernel lol00:18
treachyeah, that's when you lose your nvidia drivers.00:19
brian|lfsI know that00:19
brian|lfsI meant normal consoel display my screen is blank I'm sshed in that box right now00:19
treachhm, that doesn't sound normal..00:20
treachblank screen -> normal console after reboot?00:20
Romsterno idea i've nto had that happen, although brian|lfs can't use VESA it messes up the screen form working?00:20
brian|lfsat least I thought it was vesa not I'm starting to wonder if its a differen't option now00:21
brian|lfsno clue when I can get my screen to come back up then I can probably do more testing00:21
* treach goes back to trying to get his farking rodent working..00:22
Romsterlol your mouse arn't working?00:22
treachI get a mousepointer when i start X, but that's all. :S00:22
brian|lfswhat kind of mouse00:22
Romsterlol dang00:22
Romsteri got a usb mouse works ok here.00:23
brian|lfsdid it work before00:23
treach3 buttons+scrollwheel.00:23
treachYeah, but under suse, I had to pull the plug and put it back in before it started.00:23
Romsterlogitech M-UV9600:23
Romsterhmm dbus00:23
Romsteror hal i get mised on them too.00:24
treachmmh, but I'm not using that now.00:24
brian|lfsfind a usb to ps2 adaptor00:24
treachahahahaha... I whish I could.00:24
treachdamned mess. I've moved since the last time I used one of those. :/00:25
mwansatreach, are you using gnome00:26
treachno way. :)00:26
mwansatreach, ah nice. fucking 2.20 is a mess00:26
treachGnome has *always* been a mess.00:27
treachat least post 1.4 :/00:27
brian|lfsya it is00:29
brian|lfsgood old gtk lol00:29
treachwell, what do you expect from something that is made up of 2 million packages that are interdependent in weird ways, and yet totally fails to create any *real* integration?00:29
brian|lfshey Romster I said fuck this shit and I'm comping again00:30
brian|lfsthere is obviously a bug with 23 whcih is making my monitor not display becuase my monitor stopped displaying when I compiled 2.6.2300:30
treachhmm.. anyone who knows wether there's a firefox coming shortly.....? :/00:32
brian|lfs11 just came out why00:33
treachwell, that doesn't say much. :s00:33
mwansaha ha00:33
brian|lfswhats wrong treach00:33
treachlook at the release dates lately00:33
treachlike the 3 latest.00:33
Romsterbrian|lfs, oh00:39
Romstertry 2.6.2200:39
Romsterif it works on 2000:39
Romster23 has major changes.00:39
treachfwiw, I have absolutely no problems with 23.9 and nvidia here00:40
Romstertreach, oh. i'll have to try last time i tryed nvidia wasn't compatable.00:40
brian|lfs20.21 worked lol00:41
brian|lfsso I'm compiling 23 and also keeping 20.21 this time00:41
treachmake oldconfig ftw00:42
brian|lfsold config is what messed up 23 before00:42
brian|lfsI'm just guessing00:42
treachor did *you* mess up? ;)00:42
brian|lfstried everything else00:42
brian|lfsI compared files00:43
brian|lfsthey looked the same even recopied my old config00:43
treachsince I know nothing about you, you did run "make oldconfig" and didn't just copy your old .config?00:43
brian|lfshow does lilo handle multiple kernels have used lilo in years do I need multiple system maps?00:43
brian|lfsorigionally yes00:44
treachmultiple image= lines etc. it's in the manpage00:44
brian|lfsI'll just point it to the new image then00:45
treachman (5) lilo.conf00:45
brian|lfsdon't mention system map00:50
brian|lfsI'm thinking just do my root device globaly instead of for each image and then add my other imagee00:51
treachtilman: prt-get install firefox  1351.70s user 103.18s system 162% cpu 14:54.86 total00:51
brian|lfsstill a black screen with kernel 23 lol00:54
brian|lfsI'll try 22 tomorrow00:54
treachmmh, time to sleep.00:54
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brian|lfshey Romster there is no gnome-audio package lol01:02
brian|lfsso I can't install the gnome sounds01:02
brian|lfsbut gnome finished compiling01:02
mwansabrian|lfs, are you in gnome now ?01:04
Romsteryou'd have to speak to jaeger about that he maintains gnome.01:04
brian|lfsya I got in gnome fine01:04
brian|lfsbut I jsut rebooted into windows01:04
mwansaah. can you run 'alacarte' in gnome01:05
brian|lfsthat was to much trouble just to install gnome01:05
brian|lfsto late rebooted into windows01:05
brian|lfsit was 2 days to get gnome to compile01:05
brian|lfsbecuase of gtk01:05
mwansawould have been faster if you used jaegers updated iso01:06
brian|lfswhats jaegers iso?01:06
mwansaan update version of the crux-2.3 iso01:07
Romsterjaeger's stuff is merged into the crux 2.4 test 1 iso01:08
Romsterbut i wouldn't use that yet unless oyu are game and expect things to break.01:08
brian|lfswill it breaks good with 2.3 lol01:09
Romsterhaving said that i think i'll try it soemtime soon on my firewall.01:09
Romsterlol 2.3 isn't broken <_<01:09
brian|lfsyou update and pkgutils can't even compile along with openssh and something else01:09
brian|lfscan't remember the third package01:09
brian|lfsopenssh is a dead url01:10
Romsterthen manually find a working url...01:10
Romsterand submit a bug01:10
brian|lfsoh ya I forgot to ask when I do a ports -u01:10
brian|lfsdoes it break the footpritns I manually had to update01:10
Romsteryes they get reverted.01:11
brian|lfsthats what I figured I didn't think you fixed them lol01:11
brian|lfsI did a prots -u and saw it revert them01:11
Romsternah you just bypassed them.01:11
brian|lfsis it going to harm anything I install01:11
Romsterpreaty much01:11
Romsterthey just say what's missing or new files when the maintainer made or updated the port01:12
brian|lfsjust don't reinstall gtk or that other package lol01:12
Romsterit'll be diferent on some systems from extra or missing ports01:12
Romsterproviding everything that's liksed in depends on line is installed you shouldbe ok01:12
brian|lfsto me CRUX is basically LFS with scripts01:13
Romsterpreaty much01:13
Romsterglorified LFS01:13
brian|lfsdifferent init system01:13
RomsterBSD init01:13
Romsteralot neater imo01:13
brian|lfsand a rc.conf for laoding the services like arch01:14
brian|lfsso you think I will have luck with kenrel 2.6.2201:14
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Romsteri'm sure worth a shot.01:14
brian|lfsgetting my display to come on and my nvidia driver to compile01:14
Romstermake a new directory and use ketch up <_<01:14
Romsterdid you get xorg.conf set right?01:14
brian|lfsxorg works fine01:15
brian|lfsI haven't made a config file yet lol01:15
brian|lfshow do I fix the ugly fonts01:15
Romsterdefine ugly?01:16
brian|lfsthey don't look right the character spacing is messed up or something01:16
mwansabrian|lfs, back in gnome yet ?01:16
Romsteryou may want to mess with a xrog.conf first01:16
brian|lfsno why mansa01:16
Romsterand maybe install aditional fonts.01:17
brian|lfsthats what I was jsut going to say I probably don't have true type fonts01:17
Romstertake note of the post-install with xorg fonts.01:17
mwansaohk, just need to test your gnome ;). brian|lfs install xorg-font-msttcorefonts01:17
Romsteryeah most likely you haven't installed ttf fonts.01:17
brian|lfswhats the post-install a rreadme01:17
Romstercommands that need to be ran after a port is installed.01:18
Romsterif one exists.01:18
Romster--install-scripts runs it.01:18
Romsterbbs ordering a pizza <<01:18
brian|lfsI have some other here01:19
brian|lfsI used those options when I installed xorg01:19
pitillogood morning01:19
mwansamorning pitillo01:20
pitillohello mwansa :)01:21
brian|lfsalacare started for me mwansa01:24
brian|lfsno problem01:24
mwansabrian|lfs, no errors ?01:24
brian|lfsno errors01:24
mwansammm ohk, must be a breakage in one of my packages. possibly pygtk..01:24
Romstermwansa, run revdep?01:25
brian|lfshuh this isn't gentoo01:25
mwansaRomster, no ?01:26
Romstermwansa, RD_VERBOSE=2 revdep | tee revdeplist.txt01:28
Romstersee what's broken and recompile them.01:28
mwansaah wil give it a go later on. off to work now. cya01:29
Romsterbrian|lfs, once ya in a desktop i prefer to use make xconfig and use that to set the kernel then use lilo -R label-of-new-kernel01:30
Romsterso if i bork it i can just reboot and be back in the  system01:30
brian|lfswhat does the R switch do01:33
brian|lfsdoes R automatically add all the options for the kernl into lilo01:34
brian|lfsnevermind I'm ok01:35
Romsterman lilo01:36
Romsterit runs a command line option once only..01:36
Romsteronce you got the new kernal iamge listed in the kernel you can do lilo -R newkernel01:36
Romsterand not edit the default= untill you know it's ok01:37
brian|lfsdoes that avoid the system map until you know it works01:37
brian|lfsthen when it works you can switch over01:38
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Romstersee what you learn runnign them other distrobutions <_<01:41
Romsterno you can have both system maps.01:42
brian|lfsI haven't used lilo in years01:42
brian|lfshow do you use both I read the man page earlier didn't see anything about system maps01:42 vmlinuz- kconfig-
brian|lfsso do you just write lines in your lilo.conf that says
Romsterjust ah i'll pate mine..01:43
Romsterpaste good time to try out that proggie again.01:44
brian|lfsit works good lol01:44
brian|lfsI finally made a normal user for my crux install lol01:45
Romsteryeah glad i ported it <<01:45
brian|lfsit was on contrib right away over here no sysnc lag time01:45
Romsterya it takes a couple of minutes sometimes..01:46
Romsteryou'll find alot of ports i've made and i got my own private colection too.01:47
Romsteralot of others have good stuff too.01:47
Romsterbut use private repos with caution <_<01:47
Romsterspecasily don't touch anything with libicvonv!!01:47
brian|lfsso it jsut knows if as long as the label hass the kernel version along with the system map names?01:48
Romsterit's in  glibc but soem repos mainly yahri use that.01:48
brian|lfsthats weird01:48
Romsterlabel can be anything..01:48
Romsteri jsut chose to do that.01:48
brian|lfsis it a script build into lilo01:48
brian|lfswhat does the system map actaully do anyhow01:49
Romsterdon't even need to list the it knows how to find that..01:49
Romsterjust work off my lilo01:49
Romsteryou won't need all of it, and i dont' clam to be a expert but it works.01:50
brian|lfsI'm installing the kernle your running
brian|lfs6 I mean01:51
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brian|lfsthen I'll leave it compiling and go to bed01:52
Romsteri'm mainly on becasue of some drivers i gotta sort out sometime.01:53
Romsterbrian|lfs, you can also use tab upon booting a kernel to select another kernel to boot too.01:54
Romsteror was it caps lock i forget now...01:55
brian|lfsits probably tab01:55
brian|lfsany particular reason why lilo is still the default bootloader in CRUX01:56
Romsterno idea i like it never used grub.01:56
brian|lfsGrub is easy once you get the hang of it people probably say the same about lilo01:56
Romsteri find lilo easy just fon't forget to run lilo after editing <<01:57
brian|lfshow do I do an away message like sleeping on irc I forget01:57
Romsteror you gotta boot off the cd mount chroot then lilo and reboot.01:57
brian|lfsthat I know01:57
Romsterbeen there done that <<01:57
brian|lfsjust pass your root device from the CD01:57
brian|lfsit works witht he CRUX cd I did it earlier01:58
Romsteri heard soem people having grub issues too so i really don't know what is better but lilo does it for me so i haven't changed.01:58
Romsteryou can if you like chage to grub.01:58
brian|lfsthere is an issue with it with 64 bit01:58
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brian|lfsit came with gnome or something its on my system01:59
Romstergrub on 64bit?01:59
brian|lfsya can't reemmber what the bug was but you have to use a newer version of grub and apply some patches and stuff01:59
Romsteri plan to get to 64 bit crux later when i got the hardware.01:59
brian|lfs64 bit seems to work jsut as good as 32 bit but its not any faster or anything02:00
brian|lfsthe latest 64 bit of crux I saw was 2.202:00
Romsterthere is 2 happening a pure 64 bit and a multilib one02:03
Romsteron the links page of crux.nu02:03
brian|lfspure 64 sucks02:04
brian|lfsbecuase of web browser plugins like flash02:04
brian|lfsand vmware won't work on a non multi lib02:04
Romster64 bit is only faster for alot of math stuff i think and big transfers.02:06
Romsterjava yeah is still stuck in 32 bit.02:06
Romsteri don't use vmware02:06
Romsterbut yeah i'm gonan go with multilib so i got support for 32 bit only apps but will use 64bit where pssable.02:06
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brian|lfsthe driver builds with kernel fine02:10
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Romsterhi sepen02:12
Romsterbrian|lfs, so jsut a 23 issue then as i suspected dunno how trench got around it.02:13
brian|lfsdriver isn't working right02:14
brian|lfsglxgears don't work02:14
brian|lfsall will good night02:17
brian|lfsahh wasn't using the driver lol02:19
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brian|lfshad to create a xorg.conf file lol02:19
Romsteryeah you gotta use nv02:26
Romstermmm pizza02:26
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tilmantreach: you bastard (wrt teh 15 minutes) :D03:25
treachI was pretty spot on too. :P03:26
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rxihow is 2.4 going?04:21
treachgood :)04:22
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namenlosprt-get fsearch reveals, that /usr/include/attr/xattr.h is in contrib/libattr04:33
namenlosis this correct? but why is libattr then in contrib?04:33
treachahem. I'm not sure what you asked prt-get...04:37
treachbecause that doesn't match at all what I get.04:37
treachxattr.h is part of glibc or dietlibc, according to prt-get04:38
namenlostreach: prt-get fsearch xattr.h04:38
treachyep, that's what I did.04:39
namenlosglibc has: /usr/include/linux/xattr.h and /usr/include/sys/xattr.h04:39
namenloslibattr has /usr/include/attr/xattr.h04:39
treachwell, I don't have libattr, so that helps I guess. :)04:40
treachnot sure if it's different because I'm on 2.4, or if you've got a stale port04:41
namenlosi don't have it installed either, this is imho the reason, why i get this message04:41
treachnono. I don't have the port at *all*04:42
namenlosok, i think, then it is a 2.4 issure / nonissue ;)04:42
treachI guess you have a stale port, happens some time, dunno why. :/04:43
treachif you remove the port and the update your porttree, does it reappear?04:43
treachs the/then04:43
namenlosyou mean make a ports -u?04:45
namenlosyes, i did 10 mins ago04:45
namenlosand i need libcap for cdrkit...04:45
treachlook at a gentoo mirror near you ;)04:46
namenlostreach: for what reason?04:46
treachah. I thought you couldn't get the source for some reason04:47
namenloslibattr is a dependency of libcap, but sysup doesn't seem to recognize dependencies...04:47
rxitreach: cool .. no eta then i guess huh04:48
treachnamenlos: It's *not* a dep..04:48
treachrxi: no, but I heard rumours about an official test release next week or so.04:49
rxibeen hanging for it so i can format04:50
treach-- dependencies ([i] = installed)04:50
treach[i] ncurses04:50
treach[i] libcap04:50
treach[ ] cmake04:50
treach[ ] cdrkit04:50
namenlostreach: maybe because you are on 2.404:51
pitillonamenlos, here I haven't libattr like libpcap's dependencie04:52
pitillonamenlos, wich port are you using for libpcap?04:53
treach*libcap* :p04:53
namenlospitillo: the one from contrib04:53
treachit's above kids, no reason to get it wrong ;)04:53
pitillobrbrbrbr :X sorry04:53
treachrxi: got enough of vista already? =)05:17
Romsternamenlos, it's not the same dierectory s it isn't a file conflict.05:35
rxitreach: lol thats all ive been using since xorg screwed me over05:37
treachscrewed over by xorg? But not windows? hmmm...05:38
rxiyeah doing the xorg update killed it and i cbf fixing it so im waiting for 2.4 to come out so i can wipe the hdd and start fresh05:39
Romsterno idea why libattr isn't using the glibc lib and not it's own version.05:39
Romsteri guess it's an extension of glibc's xattr05:40
Romsternot using cdrkit dunno why the need too when there is cdtools05:41
treachya, I wonder why.... I bet it has nothing to do with debian or jörg schily..05:44
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* Romster shrugs05:49
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rehabdolllibattr failed to build for me btw06:32
rehabdollon my 2.4 desktop that is, built fine on the other 2.3 box06:32
tilmandid viper announce that i created a 2.4 branch for contrib?06:40
tilmanbleh, he did not06:40
tilmanwtf is with the spam on that ml anyway06:40
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rehabdollwill there be a 2.4 branch for xorg?07:13
tilmanthere has been a 2.4 branch for months07:16
thrice`tilman: did you see my note about the xorg package?07:19
tilmanthrice`: oh, yes.07:19
tilmanthrice`: i have sucessfuly ignored it so far though ;D07:20
thrice`i figured it was release-halting07:26
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tilmanthrice`: you just selected everything, without (un)selecting individual packages?07:29
tilmanthrice`: i'll try to reproduce it in qemu07:29
thrice`tilman: I unselected all input and all video, except for mouse, keyboard, ati, and vesa07:30
thrice`I don't see it listed in packages.xorg of new_iso - should it be?07:32
tilmanprobably, let me check07:33
tilmanthrice`: thanks, that's the problem most likely07:40
thrice`ok.  obviously not a big one - just found it a bit strange07:41
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jjpkprt-get sysup does not do dependencies, but why even bother mentioning it since namenlos already quit. :p12:46
tilmanthank god that this retarded problem will soon be solved12:46
tilmanmaybe we should link pkgutils dynamically in the near future, too12:47
jjpktilman: on the iso you say?12:47
tilmani think this requires more thought12:47
tilmanprobably won't go into 2.4 right away12:47
jjpkIt is better to test it out before hand.12:50
jjpkIt would not look very good to release a dud.12:50
jjpkNot that I am overly worried about that happening, but still. :p12:52
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thrice`it will be solved?  ie, prt-get sysup will pick up new deps?13:26
thrice`that would be nice, I suppose13:26
tilmanthrice`: it will be solved because 2.4 will ship with libarchive13:26
thrice`ah...I forgot 2.3 didn't13:26
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jjpkWhy is it needed now? The "problem" of prt-get not picking up new dependencies has never been a biggie.13:53
jjpkOf course, you get the question every now and then, but it is not a daily WTF as far as I'm concerned.13:54
treachNo, but IMHO, introducing new deps that migth break the package system for the unwary shouldn't be done mid-release. :s13:55
treachEven if it's easily fixable.13:55
tilmanyesyes, it wasn't the smartest idea ever13:56
treachhey, no harm done. ;)13:56
jjpkAt least not for those who tend to follow what is happening. :p13:57
treachhavn't heard of any nuclear powerplants blowing up from it, so I guess it went okish. :)13:57
jjpktreach: not blowing up, but I thought there were two nuclear plants that did have fires. :p13:58
jjpkWonder if those were directly related. ;)13:58
jjpkEh well, no harm done ;)13:58
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treach"minor hiccups" :p13:58
jjpkIt could not have been very long ago that a plant in Germany and another one in Sweden had those issues.14:00
jaegeraon: you here?14:00
jaegeraon: nm, figred it out14:00
jjpkThe German plant received more attention because they had tried to cover up a few things from what I heard.14:00
jjpkoops. ;)14:00
treachjjpk: I totally managed to miss that one14:00
tilmani only remember the vattenfall one in sweden14:00
tilmanthere was incident in the infamous Biblis plant in .de, but i don't think it was that bad :p14:01
treachover here it was all about our little accident. :p14:01
treachhere they did what they could to invoke the doomsday scenario.14:01
tilmanthis system is fast enough to run a comosited desktop with exa without having render accel14:01
tilmanpretty impressive14:02
jjpktreach: good ole' populism in action.14:02
treach"composited desktop"? Menaing what, kde, gnome? :P14:02
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treachjjpk: indeed14:02
tilmanmy employer's products are used in nuclear power plants, too14:02
tilmani hope they don't perform really important duties %)14:03
jjpkThey still have the shadow of Chernobyl hanging over their heads.14:03
tilmanas in boom-prevention or so14:03
tilmantreach: composited desktop means i have a compositor running, duh ;p14:03
jjpkThat plant had serious problems to begin with, it was made cheaply and quickly without proper security measures etc etc etc.14:03
tilmanthe only eye candy i have is a bunch of translucent terminals though14:03
tilmani think i'll try compiz soon!14:03
tilmanwobbly expose-ripoff here i come!14:03
jjpkHopefully your new, shiny desktop does not explode due to compiz. :D14:04
treachtilman: I jused to work in a factory that made welding electrodes over the summers when I was a young student.14:04
treachpart of those went to nuclear plants etc. :o14:04
tilmani blame you for that accident!14:05
treachnah, it was years ago14:05
tilmanyou never know!14:05
jjpkBad day, he was hungover and pissed off at the world. ;)14:05
treachunless someone found some crap in the basement..14:05
jjpk"I'll show you all!"14:05
treachjjpk: I'm never hung over. Pissed of... who knows. :P14:06
jjpkI also doubt they would put part-time workers' doings into critical use.14:07
jjpkAlthough, these days you can never be sure.14:07
jjpkSome are willing to do anything to cut costs. :p14:08
jjpkAll in the name of a quick buck in the bank.14:09
treachwell. I wasn't a complete noob.14:09
tilmannoobish enough to blow up a nuclear power plant apparently14:10
tilmanadmit it already :p14:10
treachbesides, I was mostly doing visual inspection of them.14:10
jjpktilman: ever thought about becoming a prosecutor? :D14:10
tilmanjjpk: yes. but in england only14:10
tilmanso i can wear false hair14:11
treachjjpk: all germans are born prosecutors. -(:|14:11
tilmanhint: it's a bad idea to ignore wine's dependency on fontforge14:11
treachwhig + picklehaube. ;D14:11
jjpk"but but but, you have not heard any statments!"14:12
jjpk"He looks guilty, good enough for me!" Off you go.14:12
tilmanhe's even still holding the welding electrode!14:12
treachno, it's a cup of coffe actually, brb14:13
tilmani meant your former self anyway14:13
tilmanyoung student treach14:14
jjpkWhichever jurisdiction you enter, you probably could make it freakishly efficient. :D14:14
jjpkMostly because everyone is guilty of something. :D :D14:14
tilmanlaw people are madmen14:15
jjpkBusiness people must be fools. Why? They follow everything the law people say.14:16
jjpkEspecially the lazier individuals who have not bothered reading up on some basic applicable legislation.14:16
jjpkThey are a necessary evil, but you should not rely on them for everything imho.14:17
jjpkHmm, on second thought in especially insane jurisdictions, I wouldn't even take a shit without lawyer approval. :D14:20
treachjjpk: you should see the bug entry for dht support in ktorrent for opensuse..14:22
treachtalk about brain dead lawpeople.14:23
* jjpk looks for it.14:23
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jjpktreach: "DHT is still disabled in Ktorrent"?14:25
jjpkNow if this would only load...14:28
treachah. ok. well basically novells law people won't allow it.14:28
jjpkI can imagine it is something similar as when at least fedora shipped without mp3 support.14:29
treachwhich is like a store refusing to sell shovels because you might kill someone with it, and bury the corpse with it..14:29
jjpkThat's law for ya. :D14:29
treachfedora and mp3 isn't quite in the same league14:30
treachthere is a real problem, if you're shipping in the us.14:30
treachthis is just... retarded14:30
treacha firm non-grip on technology14:30
jjpkYeah, you are right. The main idea of interest being how silly many laws are, and what they force people and organizations through.14:31
treachor how totally over-catious it makes some spineless people.14:31
jjpkIf crux were a formal organization, we would probably see many of those problems as well.14:32
jjpkAlthough not necessarily since very little is distributed.14:33
thrice`that's half the fun :)14:33
jjpktreach: a loud NO by the lawyers indeed. :D14:34
jjpk"zomg you will distribute W4R3Z1111!!!1twelve"14:34
treachjjpk: well, we've got an interesting trial comming up here soon.14:36
tilmanwhat is DHT?14:36
treachIt's going to be interesting.14:36
tilmandistributed hash table14:37
jjpktreach: who what where why?14:37
treachA watershed wether our courts are completely corrupt, or wheter the prosecuter will be laughed out of court.14:37
treachOur genius prosecuter Roswall vs the people at pirate bay.14:38
treach"assisting with preparations to committing copyright infringement", no less. ;D14:38
treachit's a riot. ;D14:38
jjpkWell, it's not entirely wrong because most of the stuff they have is copyrighted. ;)14:39
treachYou can't be sentenced for helping someone committing a crime, unless the person you're assisting gets two years in the slammer.14:40
treachand so far that has happened to nobody.14:40
treachand you can't be sentenced for a hypothetical crime either14:40
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treachalso, pirate bay doesn't have any copyrighted stuff, unless someone is trying to claim copyright on the torrent files.14:41
treachbut I guess that would be a pretty "creative" interpretation of "derivative work".14:42
jjpkSure, they'll get thousands upon thousands to testify that pirate bay is infringing their rights by publishing their torrents. :D14:43
treachunless they can claim copyright on the torrentfiles, they can take a hike.14:43
jjpkSeems a very, very slim line of prosecution.14:44
jjpkEspecially if whoever is judging sees it how you stated the situation.14:45
treachso, basically this should be laughed out of court, and the prosecuter should be fined.14:45
treachbut this country being what it is, I'm still worried.14:45
jjpkAs I was writing right when the local network burped, the prosecution still must think this is a napster type system. :p14:46
treachThe problem is probably a bit deeper14:46
jjpkYou know how legal systems work. People with connections and those part of the system usually are protected.14:46
treachthe jucidal system here is supposed to be separated from the political, but increasingly it seems the wall is *very* thin.14:47
jjpkThat ideal is nothing more than a dream. Of course it is political.14:47
jjpk"you do this and that, I will put the right people in charge"14:48
treachyeah. but this case is interesting.14:48
treachbecause if they do that, it makes it totally obvious the whole thing is a farce.14:48
jjpkRIAA/MPAA probably have their hand in the game as well.14:49
treachof course14:49
jjpkNot to mention their lobbies.14:49
treachthe whole raid on pirate bay was initiated after riaa etc had a little chat with our crypto-nazi minister of "justice" bodström.14:50
jjpkRIAA/MPAA & associates are just pissed off because they are unable to adapt to the present.14:50
treachof course he claimed to have nothing to do with it. :>14:50
jjpk...aaaand since laws protect business, not people... You get the idea :)14:50
treach(Politicians meddling in the business of authorites is a big nono, for those not familiar with how things work here)14:51
jjpkThere's reality, then there's how they present it.14:51
jjpkThey present it as being independent and uncorrupt. Wipe the paint away and you might surprise yourself.14:52
jjpkNo system is completely clean or how they want you to see it as.14:53
jjpkSome go through great lengths to cover it up, while others could care less, depends on the country.14:53
jjpkIt is lamentably naive to believe nordic or scandinavians have completely pure governments and politics.14:55
jjpkThey could be far worse, I will admit that much.14:56
treachthat's presumeably why Persson got the boot, and I guess Reinfelt will get it too.14:57
jjpkI think Reinfelt & CO are getting marred very quickly.14:57
jjpkPlenty of scandals and resignations already.14:57
treachindeed. damned jokers.14:57
jjpkTax evasions, wiggling out of other duties, great. :D14:58
treachanyhow, it's 4 years. And getting rid of that smug asshole was worth it14:58
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treachhonestly; I don't think it's much better anywhere else.14:58
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jjpktreach: yeah, the same happened in Finland. Finally they got rid of a social democratic goverment, yet nothing is changing.14:59
jjpkAt least not for the better.14:59
treachno. this campain was insane.15:00
jjpkThey were talking endlessly about tax breaks among other things. They did do a few, BUT they increased them in other sectors. :D15:00
jjpkNo loss and no gain.15:00
jjpkThe status quo is still there.15:00
treachbasically *all* parties were competing about who could kick the hardest on people who are sick, unemployed or both.15:00
treachAnd cutting taxes, too.15:01
treachfor those who already have a bunch of money, that is.15:01
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jjpkThink about it, the richest ones don't even play by the same rules.15:01
jjpkThey get their money through capital gains, not through salary.15:01
jjpkCapital gains are taxed reasonably, salaries are not.15:01
treachI wonder why :>15:02
jjpkI'll take a guess: they own the "decision makers" ;)15:02
treacha winner is you! :)15:03
jjpkyay \o/15:03
jjpkFor instance, it was not too long ago that the social democratic government in Finland abolished the "wealth" tax.15:03
jjpkNot very socialist in nature, now was it? ;)15:03
treachwell, depends on how you look at it.15:04
treachsocialism is not necessarily the same as theft.15:04
jjpkIf it is state socialism, then it tends to be.15:04
treachand if you invest your already taxed money in something it's pretty damn bad form to tax that too, IMO.15:05
jjpktreach: no, the wealth tax that was abolished meant your total worth.15:05
treachyeah, I know.15:05
treachyour life savings, which might be your house for instance.15:06
treachor like here, people who bought their house 40 years ago, and suddenly found themselves living in an insanely attractive area..15:07
treach"get rich so you can pay your taxes, or move."15:07
jjpkTo me that is a clear backstab of your supposed "values" ;)15:08
jjpk"oops" ;)15:09
treachalso, not to mention it's completely silly to pay taxes every year on an "income" you didn't have, and only *might* get at some time in the future.15:11
jjpkYeah, the tax authorities are hog wild in that department.15:11
treachyep. I don't think they grasp the difference between solid and liquid assets. :/15:12
jjpkSometimes I get the mental picture about a smoky room, with pissed off assholes thinking "how do we squeeze a little more out of everyone"15:12
jjpkThe way I see it, in Finland they have lost their common sense a long time ago.15:16
jjpkInstead of taxing the living shit out of everything imaginable, they should have a much more progressive outlook in creating more employment among other things.15:17
jjpkNowadays everything has been effectively outsourced to the private sector.15:17
jjpkVoter ignorance, politicians and members of parliament appear to just line their own damn pockets. :D15:18
jjpkIf this is not the beginning of decay in the system, I don't know what is.15:20
treachit's already rotten. I'm going for a purge every 4th year. :/15:21
jjpkWhat does that help? The faces change, but it still is nothing more than a popularity contest and how many bullshit promises you can load on the campaign.15:23
treachwell, there's change at least15:24
treachyou know, better light a candle etc.15:24
treachI suppose that's the best - legal - option there is.15:25
jjpkThere's the other part of the problem: they make the rules and the rules favor them. ;)15:27
treachof course.15:27
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treachjeeez, the cups guys really should have a look at their code..,15:46
jjpkI wonder why this still has not kicked the bucket and disconnected...15:46
jjpkwe really must be connected at the hip.15:47
treach"going to the same party"? :p15:47
treachcool, rtorrent now supports dht, apparently15:52
treachdidn't know that15:52
jjpk"we can't package it!"15:52
jjpkThe legal team says NO15:53
tilmanmicrosoft 'advised' them not to do it15:53
treachhehe, I'm actually amazed that they  said "yes" to realese an OS at all.15:53
treachnot to mention, how they could allow the distribution of a telnet client.15:54
treachH4XoR tool #115:54
treach"Idiot; n; A member of a large and powerful tribe..."15:55
treachmmmh, converting string constants to char* seems like a difficult one..15:57
treachheaps and heaps of warnings about that.15:58
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brian|lfsRomster:  I'm going to log into irc on my crux machine I just got home from work16:10
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Romsterjjpk, hmm i seem to have the latist version of them all.. of ktorrent.16:25
treachGoddag yxskaft?16:27
Romstertreach, speak english <<16:27
Romsteri interpret that ia god damn microsoft?16:28
treachIt doesn't translate, sorry. ;)16:28
Romsterlol damn..16:29
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treachhi root17:02
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brian|lfsoh woops my bad didn't realize I was root lol17:03
brian|lfsI actually made a username jsut forgot I was root17:03
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tilmanphew, i might /ignore that guy17:03
jjpkHe'll be back.17:04
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brian|lfswhat is everyone sleeping17:05
Romsterhi brian|lfs17:05
brian|lfshey Romster do you know of a good repo for compiz fusion or should I jsut get it by git or something17:06
tilmanuse the port database17:07
tilmanwhich is linkd in /topic17:07
brian|lfsyou mean the one on the one of the website right17:08
Romsterthere is no other..17:08
tilmanbrian|lfs: punch in /topic17:09
brian|lfsI see17:09
rehabdollim bored :(17:14
Romsterbrian|lfs, jaeger has that stuff. compiz beryl17:18
Romsterin his repo.17:18
Romsterrehabdoll, try out some ranom ports maybe <<17:18
tilmanomfg, heanet totally sucks today17:18
brian|lfsis httpup similar work the same way as rsync or is it different17:19
treachnice. :D17:21
jjpkThey are different protocols, but they accomplish the same.17:22
brian|lfsthats what I figured17:22
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* Romster remebers the days we had a cvs driver too.17:23
* treach remembers the days we hadn't Romster 17:23
tilmanand the short-lived svn up17:24
Romsterthat's a low shot..17:24
jjpkMinor indecision at the crux camp ;)17:24
Romsteroh i could just pull all my ports out of contrib and everyone would bitch then <<17:24
jjpkcvs, hmm maybe it is time for a change. svn... yep definitely time for a change :D17:24
jjpkGood bye svn, hello git.17:25
Romsterthat reminds me i got that damn gst to update that won't compile the new version for me..17:25
treachRomster: nah, it's cool, just don't try to sound like such a relic. ;)17:25
treach"In my day we had.." etc. :p17:27
Romsterah i was just grossing over some old stuff.17:28
Romsteractualyl i'd like to see a bit tottent driver.17:28
Romsterand have host the files on it's tracker.17:29
treachvim core.torrent ;)17:29
Romsteryeah i may do that sometime.17:29
Romsterit's on my list todo.17:29
tilmanRomster: for dist files?17:30
treachheh, if it's so easy, I wonder why gentoo doesn't have that functionality.. ;>17:30
Romsterand have the souce line contain the torrent file.17:30
jjpkBittorrent does not seem very flexible to me in this regard.17:30
Romsterif no one is serving torrent of it it'll still fall back to for them.17:30
Romsterbut i for one would be happy to share my distfiles.17:31
Romsterover torrents.17:31
Romsterand i'm sure alot of others too.17:31
Romstermaybe no one likes the idea but i do.17:32
jjpkI think I understand what you are after, but using torrents is not too practical for dynamic contents.17:32
treachsounds like a nightmare IMO. Lots of little caches everywhere which are totally inconsisten.. :/17:32
Romsterjjpk, got a better approch?17:33
jjpkwell, maybe several repositories synced via rsync and have some volunteers announce them on the website.17:34
jjpkA central one, then have clients fetch and update them every now and then.17:34
jjpkNot the best solution either, but rsync works well when it comes to distributing changes and keeping up-to-date.17:34
treachactually bittorrent could probably work, but I don't think it would be worth it.17:35
jjpkIt would be an interesting test though.17:35
treachif you see each repo as a distictive archive where you only get the parts that are relevant for port when you need them.17:36
Romsteri still think i should have a crack at that and get some testers?17:36
Romsteri was thinking of a torrent file for each distfile.17:36
jjpkGo for it.17:36
Romsterif it's worthwhile is the other question..17:37
Romsterbut that won't be klnown untill tested.17:37
jjpkObviously some form of peer-2-peer would be necessary to accomplish distributing and having redundant distfiles.17:39
treachas I said, one might take a clue from the fact that gentoo is sooo much bigger, with more devs and users, and still haven't gone for it.17:40
jjpkI like the idea, but it would likely need some serious redesigning to work as wanted.17:40
tilmanRomster: have you seen the SOURCE_MIRRORS thing in pkgutils 5.31?17:41
Romsterah no we have a 3.51 O_o17:41
tilmanjust put "" in there and live happily ever after17:41
Romsteri did see a patch ages ago to add a mirror thing17:41
tilmanyes, we do17:41
Romstermaybe i better do a sysup then..17:42
tilmanjaeger is going to write about it in the release notes for 2.417:42
Romsterah it's in 2.4?17:42
Romstertilman, you seen my patch in flyspray?17:42
Romsteri think youa re maintaining pkgutils now?17:42
Romsteri got a patch for a lzma decompression quite small i'd like to see it merged in.17:43
tilmanRomster: would be great if you could assign pkgutils bugs to me directly17:43
Romsteroh i couldn't assign it afaik..17:43
tilmanthat way i'd get mail if there's stuff to look at17:43
Romsterit's a feature17:43
Romsteroh i see.17:43
tilmanlzma? who uses that? :P17:44
* treach puts mirror.. :p17:44
Romsteri'm also wanting to use lzma for my packages instead of gz17:44
Romsterbut i can't get pkginfo to work with lzma yet..17:44
Romstertilman, i do as of now <<17:44
tilmanlzma == the 7zip algorith, right?17:44
Romsterand it's faster and more compression than bzip217:45
Romsterbut not exactly the same comapatability to 7zip17:45
tilmani suggest you try to add support for lzma to libarchive17:45
Romstersame alog17:45
tilmanand then use bsdtar in pkgmk17:45
tilmannot easy though17:45
Romsterlzma already works with tar17:45
tilmando you know c? :p17:45
Romsteronly enough todo simple stuff.17:46
treach"Obstacles exists to be overcome".17:46
tilmanRomster: is there a liblzma?17:46
tilmancontrib/lzma :D17:47
Romsteras far as i got hmm i'll check..17:47
Romsteryeah <<17:47
tilmanRomster: mmh, i might look at that17:47
Romsterit beats bzip and gz in speed17:47
Romsterand compresses smaller too.17:47
tilmani don't believe it :P17:47
Romstercompression time at -9 is a bit slow but at default -7 it's nto too bad.17:47
Romsteryeah try it out <<17:48
Romster-2 will be as fast as gz and compress like bzip17:48
tilmanLicense: GNU LGPL (liblzma)17:48
Romsterwhy the anoying 2 is a pain..17:48
tilmanoh wait17:48
tilman look at the "compression time" listings17:49
Romstermight be able to use that in pkgutils..17:49
Romsteryeah it's a bit slow but ya can set compression to less than 7 if need be for speed.17:50
Romstereven 2 would be better than using gz it compresses to bzip2 size.17:50
Romsterand fast at gz17:50
treachbut why? We do not distribute packages in general anyway..17:51
Romsterstorage space.17:51
tilmantired, must sleep17:52
jjpktilman: good night.17:52
Romster7.2G    /usr/ports/distfiles/17:52
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tilmanRomster: distfiles is a very different matter from crux packages17:52
tilmanto get support for lzma compressed distfiles, you just need a libarchive that can handle lzma17:52
tilmanand then use bsdtar in pkgmk17:53
Romsteroops hang on wrong directory...17:53
jjpkI use 'find' to locate files older than x days, then delete them.17:53
Romster2.2G    /usr/ports/packages/17:53
Romsterah that maybe an idea jjpk the clean something command in pkg-utils don't work says missing cvs file..17:54
jjpkThe 'c' switch in pkgmk you mean?17:55
jjpkThe problem with it is that it will remove both source and the built pkg.17:56
jjpkSlight overkill ;)17:57
Romsterah no17:57
Romsteri thnk it was prtsweep i tryed to use.17:57
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jjpkOh. I do not even have that installed :p17:58
jjpkI suppose it should be debugged and then bug the maintainer(s) to fix it.17:59
Romsterplus it owuld be nice if it kept at least one older revison too but that woudl get tricky todo.18:00
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nipuLhehe, on any of the "unlicensed" second hand computers we get I put ubuntu on them and throw them in the internet cafe18:41
nipuLtoday there was a couple of people using it18:41
nipuL"hey, this OS is nice. I wonder what it is"18:41
nipuL"I think it's vista ultimate"18:42
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RomsternipuL, rofl....19:04
RomsternipuL, should put a huge sign on it saying linux <<19:04
Romsterthen again you might scare pepole away and go nay lets use a 'windows computer'19:05
nipuLjust rename firefox to internet explorer and they're happy19:14
nipuLthere's one out there i themed to look like vista aswell19:15
nipuLconfse them even more19:16
Romsterhehe must be fun.19:47
Romstereven when i was in windows  never used IE ok rarely for them small ocasions...19:55
Romsteri sued to use mozilla suite then went to firefox.19:56
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mwansaRomster, mmh i was expecting to find pygtk or python broken using revdep instead i found thunderbird, openoffice and firefox broken O_o20:59
jaegerthey're not really broken, most likely21:03
jaegeropenoffice you can ignore, it's binary anyway... if you want revdep to be smarter about firefox and thunderbird, try this: LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib/firefox:/usr/lib/thunderbird revdep21:04
mwansammm ohk, will give it a go later. need some sleep ;)21:05
jaegerjre and jdk will be "broken" in the same way openoffice is, for reference21:06
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Romstermwansa, there not likely broken, just there libs are in there own directory.21:22
Romsterand so is adobe stuff and anything else binary or packages it's own libs out of /usr/lib21:23
Romsterjaeger, i've tryed that LD_LIBRARY_PATH= makes no diference.21:23
jaegerit only will for firefox and thunderbird21:23
jaegerjre, jdk, and openoffice would take a bit more thought21:24
Romsteroh i didn't even get it to work for that hmm21:24
Romsterthis is what i ran21:24
RomsterLD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib/{firefox,thunderbird} RD_VERBOSE=2 revdep | tee revdeplist.txt21:25
Romsteri'm guessing using {} is fine..21:25
Romsteror maybe not hmm.21:25
Romsterit won't seperate with :21:25
Romsteri see my mistake..21:25
Romsterbeing lazy and i can't do that..21:25
jaegeryeah, can't use that trick there21:26
Romsterthat sucks..21:26
Romsterso whats the deal with openoffice etc?21:26
Romstermaybe if i did {firefox:,thunderbird}21:27
jaegeropenoffice just has its shit more spread out, I think it could be coaxed into reporting nicely but I haven't tried21:27
jaegeryou might have to install all the gnome/kde stuff it supports and I don't even know what other libs21:27
Romsterdarn it puts a space in there...21:28
Romsteri've been meaning to get crazy and compile it from souce one day <<21:28
Romsterafterall i'm crazy enough todo qt4 and boost whynot openoffice too <<21:28
jaegertoo much trouble for my tastes21:32
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Romsterah i got it might seem stupid but when you add like 10 names then again i might be able to use * and list all in /usr/share/* maybe? or that be asking for trouble?21:34
Romsterecho /usr/lib/{firefox,thunderbird,openoffice} | sed -e 's/\s/:/g'21:34
Romsterso now i have LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$(/usr/lib/{firefox,thunderbird,openoffice} | sed -e 's/\s/:/g')21:35
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Romsterjaeger, if you got some time would you ahve any idea why i get this?21:38
Romstergpg: Signature made Tue Nov 27 05:01:51 2007 EST using DSA key ID 517D0F0E21:38
Romstergpg: Can't check signature: No public key21:38
Romsterketchup: gpg returned 51221:38
Romsteri'm forever using -G to force it most of the time..21:38
jaegerwell, I don't know anything about ketchup but I'd guess there's no public key :)21:38
Romstersinc ei think your into that type of stuff?21:38
Romsterso i'd have to make my own key?21:39
jaegerit's checking for the public key of whoever signed the download, right?21:39
Romsterand it downloads the sign file ok21:39
Romsterit gets that but then it fails..21:40
Romsterhmm maybe it never used to be gunziped21:40
Romsteri better check in the souce.21:40
jaegerdid you already import the public key? I'd guess it's on the site21:42
Romsterit does that in ketchup but hmm maybe it's corupt..21:45
Romstersome reason it's not geting the public key...21:49
Romsterok stupid question where is the public key <_<21:52
Romsteri can't see it on the site.21:52
Romsteri think the .sign is the public key?21:52
jaegerdon't think so21:53
jaegerthe sign is the one to check against21:53
jaegergpg --keyserver --recv-keys 0x517D0F0E21:53
jaegerthen try gpg --verify21:55
RomsterThe previously used PGP 2.6 key has been revoked; see below for the revokation certificate.21:55
Romsterhmm i bet that is why..21:56
Romsterthanks for that jaege, leasti got a path to test now.21:56
Romsterbeen naging me just never had fixed that.21:57
Romsterjaeger, do you work or something? never did know what you did or i forgot.22:00
jaegerI work as a systems administrator for the university here22:01
jaegerlinux servers, webct/blackboard, oracle databases22:01
Romsterah at a university..22:01
Romsteroracle must be a pain?22:01
Romsterso oyu maintain and also devalop stuff too? is it all running crux?22:02
jaegeroracle's complicated but not a pain for our purposes. only using the database, not the rest of their stuff. it's pretty solid, don't have to tweak it often22:03
jaegerI don't do much development, mostly installations, maintenance, security updates, etc.22:03
Romstermore set and forget22:03
jaegerthe main servers are red hat enterprise but I have a couple crux machines for non-oracle stuff22:03
Romsterred hat *dies*22:04
nipuLconfse them even more22:04
Romsterwell i supose it beats windose still.22:04
jaegerit doesn't give me trouble :)22:04
jaegerI've used them long enough to work well with them22:04
Romsterso they got some strange quirks?22:04
Romsternow brb <<22:05
jaegera few, but nothing huge. some of them aren't even red hat things... like a pam/ssh bug that ignores limits settings22:05
Romstermain reason i don't wanna see pam stuff, nice idea but too complex major security issues.22:10
Romsteri like the modules/plug-ins idea though22:10
jaegerI don't really have a preference... most of the time it's unobtrusive22:11
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Romsterhi acrux|ppc22:14
acrux|ppcciao Romster22:16
acrux|ppcyawn... i go to sleep.. (5:16am here)22:17
Romsterlol g'night22:17
Romstersounds like up all night.22:17
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Brian|lfshello Romster23:13
Romsterhi Brian|lfs23:14
Brian|lfsI thought with compiz fusion and beryl earleir today and had no luck with either to every time I would start them both I would have no window borders lol23:17
Brian|lfsI'll figure it out eventually I'll probably have to compile the packages manually or something23:18
Brian|lfsI'm in windows right now23:18
Brian|lfswhat are you up to right now23:23
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