IRC Logs for #crux Sunday, 2008-01-06

ryuoso i added the right arguments to disable it00:00
ryuoto the pkgfile00:00
ryuoif whoever uses it wants dbus that bad00:00
ryuothey can edit the Pkgfile00:00
Romstershouldn't it be like optional by default?00:00
ryuoits not00:00
Romsterand have a --with-dbus ?00:00
ryuoI have to manually add the arguments to disable it00:00
Romsteror pick up on it if it is present.00:01
Romsterthat's lame...00:01
ryuoonly in the plugins00:01
Romsterwhat if the person wants to use it with dbus.00:01
ryuoThey can just edit the pkgfile00:01
Romsterif pkginfo -i |grep '^dbus '; then....00:01
Romsteror add in a check duh <<00:01
Romsterlike qt has for mysql.00:02
ryuowell i didnt write the freakin source00:02
ryuothese pkgfiles are mostly for myself...00:02
Romsterbut you can write osmething in the pkgfile for users that use dbus if it's on there system.00:02
Romsterhm k00:02
ryuoi will put them online and00:03
ryuoif they have a problem with it that isnt associated with a missing dependency or typo, something like that00:03
ryuotough shit. :p00:03
ryuoyou can modify it if its not to your needs sheesh00:04
ryuoall i plan to do to maintain it is update for versions and00:04
ryuodependency changes00:04
ryuoi'll add a README to explain this for "special" ports00:04
ryuotime to check for audacious's plugins00:04
Romsterheh k00:06
Romstersounds like more for yourself than to be whatif siturations for other users.00:06
ryuoi know but00:06
ryuoi dont have feel like supporting a lot of situations00:07
ryuoif people run into issues, they can just modify it00:07
ryuoi wish their site listed all the freakin deps you need for the plugins00:14
Romstersome sites do or look for the INSTALL or README files in the src/00:19
Romstersome programs provide them.00:19
ryuokinda funny00:30
ryuoaudacious now requires libcddb i think00:30
Romstersee ldd won't always find everything.00:33
ryuoits only if you want00:33
ryuocd playback00:33
Romsterwich imo most want <<00:34
Romsterhmm ok now how do i add in a shutdown button to xdm lol..00:34
ryuoheres an idea00:35
ryuodownload the source for the arch linux package00:35
ryuoand check that out :p00:35
ryuoi sometimes download rpms/debs from other distros to get stuff00:35
ryuoi've documented all the optional deps for input/output in the core/opt/contrib/xorg ports01:02
ryuothat are in the*01:02
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ryuoabiword? a gnome-turd? hahah13:16
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bjohanhow do i select a network to connect to when using wpa_supplicant?13:45
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Romstertimezones ftw16:45
Romsterman email spam is geting worse...16:47
Romsterall i get anymore is dating, enlarge your penis, loose weight, free credit, and poker crap..16:47
Romsterwhen will htey implamnet hashcahs..16:48
RotwangRomster: you was interested in OOo from source Pkgfile16:48
RomsterRotwang, yeah but i never got around to messing with it.16:49
RotwangRotwang: i'm making one, and im half way through16:49
Rotwangbut im not much into OOo, so i do it mainly for educational purposes16:49
Romsterah i was just gonna do it for the hell of it, i only use OOo ocasionaly i just hate having binary crap where i could compile from source.16:53
treachRomster: did you recently upgrade your hardware? =P16:56
treachbecause if you're planning on building that on your athlon xp, it'll probably take a week, and I don't think the build system works very well with distcc. :>16:57
Romsterhmm i'm gonna edit qt4 for this other pc so it's the only qt i got installed that has qt3 support then i'll try kde on it.17:02
Romstermaybe i should get that dual/quadcore am2/am3 board that i've been wanting.17:06
Romsterthat i'm saving up for after i get everyting else sorted first.17:07
ryuoi'm planning to invest in a VIA system once their new core comes up :>17:07
ryuoman thats gay. i hate it when news sites try to force you to register/pay to view their crummy news17:08
Romsterthat's when you go elseware.17:08
ryuoone place was chargin $370 for a year17:08
ryuoa bit much for a news, eh?17:08
ryuoisnt it sad how... the newpapers you BUY have advertising in them?17:09
ryuoeven subscription stuff has commercials17:09
ryuogets old17:09
ryuoi rarely buy advertised goods, they always pass their freakin advertising costs on to the consumer17:10
treachof course, who else?17:10
Romstereven my 'silicon chip' electronics magazine has advertising..17:11
treachbesides, it's always a game, how much can you screw your customers in order to maximize profit.17:11
Romsterand i buy that...17:12
ryuohrm my window manager has support for window maker's dockapps17:12
treachads + subscription fee = win win17:12
ryuodo i really need that feature?17:12
* ryuo ponders.17:12
Romstertreach, yeah for them.17:12
ryuodoesnt it seem ironic that you pay to view ads?17:13
treachRomster: of course, who do you think they care about?17:13
* ryuo faints.17:13
Romsterbut int he case of this 'silicon chip' the adds are related to the content so i don't mind.17:13
ryuoat least with google, you dont have to pay to get access to the content :p17:13
ryuoit has advertising, but, eh, thats what adblock is for :p17:14
Romsterbut as for newspapers who wants to read about some fair going on or some xxx hot sex phone number crap you get in the melbourne news paper.17:14
Romsterryuo, yet <<17:14
ryuoadblock plus is the only real extension i use17:14
treach"hot sex phone number" = some granny sitting and knitting while trying to keep you hooked for as long as possible :p17:15
ryuothat reminds me of a website that suggested ways to have fun with telemarketers :p17:15
Romsteri was using a service called mytv and what do they do limit how many entrys i could store in my tv guide and then go you wanna store signup for a member ship and at the start the entire site was all free, the bustareds.17:15
treachadblock + privoxy ftw17:15
ryuolemme dig it up brb17:15
Romsterah that would be cool17:16
Romstertreach, likewise.17:16
treachI don't get any telemarketing anymore, since my phone is in the "no call" register.17:16
ryuomy bad17:17
treachI was thinking about getting a whistle before that though. :)17:17
treach"Hello, I'm calling on the behalf of <company>" "PFUUUUUIIIIIIIIIII!!" :)17:18
ryuooh yea i remember17:19
ryuosome guy made a "game" when it comes to handling telemarketers :p17:19
ryuo50 points - posting their 800 number to a phone sex site17:20
ryuo5000 - finding the number disconnected or busy a week later17:20
Romstertreach, yeah we did that recently and finally no more telemarketing anymore too.17:22
treachhehe >:)17:23
ryuotelemarketing, welcome to resting place for retired practices no one really liked.17:23
ryuoits funny... adblock plus even kills google text ads XD17:24
Romsteranoyed me early morning clals and i'm like 'fuck off i was trying to sleep in'17:24
Romsterryuo, <<17:24
Romstertoo bad google preview hardly ever works anymore.17:24
treachI think the entire idea is suspect. You're supposed to agree/disagree with something right off the bat with out any preparations or previous knowledge.17:25
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treachThat pretty much reeks of deceptive practices to me.17:25
ryuoWow, they have ddr4 memory already?17:25
ddr4yeah im way ahead of everyone :D17:26
* ryuo sticks ddr4 into his motherboard.17:26
ryuomotherboard: hey baby, you new here?17:26
treachsorry, I don't think your mb has the right interface. :P17:26
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ryuoi've been writing some ports but no idea where to put them17:27
ryuoi dont have a compatible webhost17:27
Romsterwtf DDR4 O_o17:27
Romsterwhen will it end lol..17:28
treachryuo: you only need that if you want to publish them.17:28
ryuoDDR65464567645 baby!17:28
Romsterryuo, contact prologic or i can upload them tempery untill then.17:28
ddr4yea... having a connection problem. prt-get or pkgmk on a package results in a connection time out17:28
ddr4so does irc17:28
ddr4but firefox works okay17:28
ryuois it with sourceforge?17:29
ddr4ummm no fresh install17:29
ryuois your internet working?17:29
treachwell, it should work then, unless you've got some nasty isp17:29
ddr4mm yea17:29
ryuomaybe one of us can try ssh and see if we can help that way?17:30
* ryuo shrugs.17:30
Romstercan you resolve ?17:30
treachRomster: he said ff works..17:30
ryuoare you connecting through another device, say a router?17:30
RedShift[glenn@polaris ~]$ ping crux.nu17:31
RedShiftPING ( 56(84) bytes of data.17:31
RedShift64 bytes from ( icmp_seq=1 ttl=51 time=97.4 ms17:31
ryuomy hostname is noentry :p17:31
RomsterRedShift, yeah but ddr4 might have dodgy dns servers.17:31
RedShiftssh isn't working?17:31
ryuomaybe he could try a hosts override?17:31
treachssh? damn, I wouldn't allow that if I had problems, and I sure as hell wouldn't do it if someone asked me to.17:32
treach*bad* *bad* idea17:32
Romstervery bad.17:33
Romstersaying that i have vnced into a few computers that have had problems and fixed them for them.17:33
Romsterapparently teling them instructions is pointless, and it's faster todo it myself anyways.17:34
treach*ONLY* if you know the owner *extremely* well.17:34
Romsterheres a thought maybe ddr4 has a ip block to <<17:35
treachLike, you're sleeping with them. :p17:35
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Romstertreach, lol17:35
RedShiftor we talking about sex or about computers now?17:35
RedShiftor both? (nothing's too strange these days :\)17:35
Romsteroff cgi O_o i didn't think freenode had CHI support.17:35
ryuoi wish freenode had hostmask support :(17:35
treachRedShift: we're discussing when it would be a good idea to remote some persons system.17:36
Romsteryeah me too, ya have todo something to get a hostmask but i dunno what.17:36
RedShifttreach: I liked the sleeping part more...17:36
treachI guess.17:36
treachBut it's the same.17:36
RedShiftwell where I used to work we used VNC to take over customer's computers all the time17:36
RedShiftwhen they can't find the address bar, you know what time it is...17:36
treachRedShift: Root some unknown system and you never know what might happen. ;)17:37
RomsterRedShift, i agree it's easer todo than to try and expalin and get frustrated and waste time.17:37
ryuossh has other uses17:37
RedShiftRomster: hell yeah17:38
treachRedShift: not the same at all. they had a contract with you, etc.17:38
ryuoetc, for businesses that host servers17:38
treachsome random person over irc, freaking huge difference17:38
ryuolet people alter their account but deny them read access to other peoples files17:38
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Romstertreach, true..17:38
ryuolinux, the most versatile OS on the planet :)17:39
Romsterwhat i know of.17:39
RedShifttreach: yes ofcourse, totally17:39
ryuo1) fits into all sorts of embedded stuff17:39
RedShiftI was just making conversation17:39
ryuo2) can easily be both a server and desktop PC17:39
treach3) runs on a good part of the most powerfull "supercomputers"17:40
Romster4) alot of open source projects17:41
Romsteryet there is still lacking in areas..17:41
ryuo5) with the right hardware, you can have 100% FOSS drivers17:41
treachgood part = 76.2% according to top500.org17:42
Romsteryeah again video cards in full 3d aceration in opensource drivers... forget it.17:42
treachthat's only true for recent cards.17:43
Romstername one that dosn't cost $2000 for the video card <<17:43
treachnot "forget it"17:43
RedShiftI agree, with the right hardware linux is wonderfull17:43
treachRomster: older radeons works pretty well.17:43
Romsterhmm never tryed.17:43
RedShiftI just reinstalled my old pentium 3 500 Mhz with 256 MB RAM, running KDE17:43
RedShiftwork flawlessly, can even watch TV17:43
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RedShiftand HP servers + linux = drewl17:44
Romsterso there is full 3d but only older cards.17:44
treachRomster: I mananaged to play enemy territory just fine on my old 900017:44
Romsterhi concorr17:44
Romsterah ok..17:44
RedShiftin the end it all comes down to the right distribution17:44
treachRomster: ut too, iirc17:44
RedShiftusing a distro like crux just brings out the best in linux, it's so elegant and it just works17:44
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treach....said the arch user.. :>17:45
RomsterRedShift, messing with my old k6-2 here i got 256MB of ram i can't find my other 128Mb ram module i got somewere here.17:45
Romstertreach, good one.17:45
RedShifttreach: yeah not trying to get the whole channel on my back...17:45
RedShiftI really like crux, but I really hate compiling too...17:45
treachwell. IMO it's not that much compiling17:46
RedShiftdepends on what you do with it17:46
treachotoh, I'm not using any major packages, except ff.17:46
RedShiftI can't imagine using crux on my current desktop...17:46
RomsterRedShift, would you like crux mroe if you had the option to install precompiled packages?17:46
treachyeah, it's different if you're using kde for instance17:46
RedShiftRomster: yes, but that's not crux's nature17:47
treachRomster: "precompiled packages" pretty much ruins the idea with crux17:47
Romstertrue but anyone could build packages and upload them..17:47
treachbut few would be able to use them.17:47
Romsterhmm so does the idea of having opt and xorg on the install cd <<17:47
RedShiftbut then you would need some kind of repository management system to keep all of that in line...17:48
mwansaprecompiled packages carry more bloat aswell, arent optimised for your box etc..17:48
concorrI just installed crux, and start asking me for the number of runlevel init, and to give one is blocked17:48
RedShiftsomething like... pacman... for instance...17:48
treachRedShift: dependency galore17:48
RomsterRedShift, a force recompile in a chroot would do it. and upload the diffs.17:48
RedShifttreach: dependencies are handled very well with archlinux/pacman17:49
RedShiftI can't remember the last time I had dependencyproblems17:49
treachRedShift: maybe, never used it, just meant that you get that with a binary dist.17:49
Romsterconcorr, you don't have to mess with runlevel.. have you read the manual?17:49
RedShiftpacman does a way better job than dpkg (and apt-get) and rpm (and yum)17:49
RedShifttreach: not with archlinux17:49
treachof course you do.17:50
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treachthere aren't two ways about it.17:50
RedShifttreach: have you ever used archlinux?17:50
treachEither you get a ton of deps and all functionality, or you get packages with minimal deps, and run the risk of missing functionality you need.17:51
RedShiftoh like that17:51
concorryes, all instalation ok, boot with grub and my compiled kernel17:51
RedShiftI thought you were talking about binary packages linking against older libraries etc...17:51
treachno, just that the number of deps swells dramatically.17:52
Romstertreach, then the risk of having to force recompile packages after adding in something else that you need to compile in support for.17:52
RedShifttreach: well in that regard your system can be <bloated>, but at least it's managable17:52
RedShiftpopular distros like fedora are waaaaaaaaaaay worse17:52
Romstercontain everyting you'd not likely use?17:52
treachRomster: I'd take a simple recompile over a million packages I have no need for any day17:53
Romstertreach, so would i.17:53
concorrRomster, i dont have /etc/inittab file, after installation17:53
treachI mean, at least in suse, kdevelop is hideous.17:53
Romsterbesides can do huge compiles at night timewhen ya sleep.17:53
RedShiftIMHO the dependency set for any given package in archlinux is relatively slow compared to other distros17:53
treachpulls in all kinds of crappy stuff in you don't need.17:54
Romsterconcorr, strange run rejmerge.17:54
treachlike cvs/svn etc.17:54
RedShiftofcourse you can never reach the same level as full from source distro like crux17:54
RedShiftbut it's less than other distros17:54
Romsteri think the souce distros are better int hat you can have only what you need.17:55
concorrRomster, rejmerge means?17:55
Romsterand if you need less or more you just install or remove and recompile anything that needs to be.17:55
Romsterman rejmerge17:55
Romsteryou really do need to read the instalation guide.17:55
ryuoRomster: unless your computer sucks :p17:55
RedShiftRomster: are you talking to me?17:55
Romsterconcorr, ..17:55
Romsterand the rest was to just anyone that's reading.17:56
treachryuo: unless you're using kde/gnome compiling rarely is a problem17:56
Romstertreach, RedShift ryuo mainly.17:56
treacheven on "sucky computers"17:56
RedShiftRomster: I've have used crux on occasion, I know how it works...17:56
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concorrRomster, rejmerge: /var/lib/pkg/rejected not found17:57
Romsteri have a sucky 1.4GHz yet i manage with qt4 gcc-fortran, bost, kde, firefox, takes awhile but it gets there.17:57
concorr/var/lib/pkg directory yes17:57
Romsterconcorr, ok you got nothing to merge then, you must be missing some core package.17:57
treachmmh, wonder what would happen if I put the i586 version on that old p166/32MB ...17:57
treachit did work once, but that was a few versions ago. :P17:58
RedShiftcrux is great, but I take the small overhead from archlinux by using binary packages and I have no problem with that17:58
treachgcc4 on that setup woudl probably kill it. :>17:58
RedShiftit's not as if your computer will get 50% faster because you have 2 libraries less installed...17:58
Romstertreach, lol..17:58
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concorrRomster, I have not installed all packages, remove any. Which contains /etc/inittab?17:59
RedShiftand diskspace is cheap these days (on my server I use a 5 GB root partition, and usage is usually below 50%)17:59
Romsteri had a 266MHz p2 runnign at one stage and i was insane enough todo a 2.1. -> 2.2 upgrade of the tool chain it went for like 3 days.17:59
Romsterconcorr, i'd install all of the core packages.17:59
RedShiftand archlinux is optimized for i686 like crux is, so speed will be pratically the same17:59
treachRedShift: that might be true, but you constantly have to update stuff you don't need.18:00
Romsterfrom the install cd.18:00
RedShiftbut I'm not here to advocate archlinux over crux, crux is fine just the way it is18:00
treachand unwanted functionality might pose security holes, etc.18:00
concorrok thans18:00
RedShifttreach: I consider debian starting daemons automatically at startup a much greater risk than 2 or 3 extra libraries...18:01
Romsterconcorr, your missing core/rc18:01
concorrups, yes18:01
concorri remove core/rc18:01
treachRedShift: still. you're basically taking chances you don't need18:01
Romsteryou should have all of core installed.18:01
ryuohey romster18:01
Romsteryou could get away without nfs-utils etc.18:01
Romsterbut not without rc..18:02
ryuoI made another port18:02
treachrisk B > risk A doesn't mean it's ok to run risk A..18:02
RedShifttreach: the chance of that happening is *very slim*18:02
Romsterryuo, heh cool.18:02
ryuoi wonder if i should make an fvwm version thats patched18:02
Romsterhave to get you a site for them to be listed on the portsdb, are they unique?18:02
RedShifttreach: in order for an exploit to work you'd probably have to use the functionality in that program provided by that library as well18:02
Romsterryuo, hmm i've been thinking of that i got a clean version.18:03
ryuoRomster: I doubt they are "unique" there are older ports that arent maintained18:03
Romsterwas thinking of a patched version too.18:03
treachwell, it's not as remote as you might think.18:03
ryuoof them18:03
treachall it takes is a daemon linking to some optional stuff with a hole.18:03
ryuofigured if they WERE maintained, they would be kept up to date18:03
treachpatched fvwm?18:04
RedShifttreach: that's true, but still, the overhead on that in archlinux is pretty low compared to any other binary distro18:04
treachI'm not discussing arch.18:04
treachjust the principle18:04
ryuotreach: fvwm Pkgfile with some unofficial patches that add functionality18:04
RedShiftyou should keep your system updated at all times18:04
treachryuo: ah, k18:04
treachyeah, but fewer packages -> less updates18:05
treachand for people dealing with bw caps that's nice. :)18:05
treachnot that I have that particular problem, but still18:05
ryuowell i plan to fill my repo with software i either use myself that isnt in the official ports or18:05
ryuoseems useful to include18:06
RedShiftthat's true, but this is a never ending circle we can discuss... there's no winning or losing in this18:06
ryuoheres my current index... (locally)18:06
treachRedShift: true, which was my point.18:06
ryuototal 8018:06
ryuodrwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  6 02:25 Eterm18:06
ryuodrwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  6 02:38 Eterm-bg18:06
ryuodrwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  6 03:15 audacious18:06
ryuodrwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  6 01:23 audacious-plugins18:06
ryuodrwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  6 03:11 karmen18:06
ryuodrwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  6 02:47 libast18:06
treachryuo: stop18:06
ryuodrwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  5 23:34 libmcs18:06
ryuodrwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  5 23:25 libmowgli18:06
ryuodrwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  6 15:21 oroborus18:06
ryuodrwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan  6 17:49 pekwm18:06
ryuothats all there is...18:06
Romsterryuo, ah, i'm thinking of throwing fvwm in contrib, but i still need to figure out the config file for the rechered menu google hasn't helped much.18:06
Romsterryuo, pastebin...18:07
RedShiftand ofcourse, most linux distros beat windows for sure...18:07
treach"libmowgli", rofl18:07
RedShiftif it's only for the software upgrades... I can't remember how many times I've seen windows botch up an upgrade...18:08
treachkballo, anyone?18:08
RomsterRedShift, defently. except for things like photoshop.18:08
RedShiftbut do note the "most linux distros" part... distros like fedora officially don't support upgrading using the package management tools provided18:09
Romsterthey provide the tool and don't support it...18:09
Romsterthat's screwy..18:09
treachI don't like the "this sucks but X is worse" argument.18:09
RedShiftyou should drive to the datacenter, insert the dvd (if you're out of luck you can play disc jockey with 6 cd's), and do an offline upgrade18:09
treachit doesn't make "this" suck any less at all18:10
Romstereach has there good and bad points.18:10
treachyes. pick your poison.18:10
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Romsterusealyl say that when ya go drinking <<18:11
treachbut trying to cover flaws by pointing to others who are worse is so childish18:11
treachRomster: usually. :p18:11
Romsteri hate english.18:11
treachok, vi kan ta det på svenska istället. ;D18:11
RedShifttreach: I was comparing. You can say linux is much better at software upgrades, but that's not the entire truth: that's not true for all distros.18:12
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RedShiftso when I say windows sucks at upgrading, I have to mention that there's other software out there that's equally worse...18:13
concorrRomster, Solved, I unpacked rc#2.18-1.pkg.tar.gz, I will restart. Thank you!18:13
Romstersome distros don't upgrade witout breaking x or y and not realisng it untill you go to use x or y18:13
treachRedShift: well, it's because you think about it a bit backwards.18:14
Romsterconcorr, that should of been on the system in the first place and you'd use pkgadd18:14
Romstersomehow i think he uncompressed it himself..18:14
treachbecause linux systems isn't built around *binary* compatibility18:14
RomsterRedShift, jsut hates compiling and linux is opensouce not compiling is for wimps <<18:15
treachsome distros are, but that's a totally different thing18:15
Romsterembeded is about all you don't wanna be compiling, but you do cross compile for it.18:16
RedShiftRomster: I'd like to see you say that again when you have a bunch of servers to manage18:16
mwansaRomster, lol18:16
RomsterRedShift, compile once install to all.18:16
treachnfs ftw. ;)18:16
RedShiftnow there's the difference between something like archlinux and crux18:16
RedShiftarchlinux is supposed to be general purpose18:16
RedShiftcrux is supposed to be molded into a purpose, providing a generic base18:17
concorrRomster, When i start the system, make rc reinstalation with pkgadd18:17
Romsteri sware i'll run archlinux in qemu jsut to see what the big fuss is about.18:17
treachRedShift: doesn't that make crux pretty ideal for server use..?18:17
RedShiftwhat if I install, say, postfix without mysql on server A (because it only sends mail), and postfix with mysql on server B (because it needs to receive mail too)18:17
Romsterconcorr, follow the guide/manual and you should be ok.18:17
RedShiftso the compile once install to all doesn't work anymore18:17
concorrok ;)18:18
RomsterRedShift, smartarse <<18:18
treachwell, put mysql on both then. that's no worse than you get with a binary dist anyway..18:18
RedShiftso that's one of the reasons I use a binary distro18:19
treachso, you gained nothing by using the binary dist in your elaborate example. :P18:19
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Romsterhaha good one treach18:19
treach(ok, you saved some time on compiling, but that's pretty marginal :p )18:19
RedShifthow do you mean I gained nothing? I gained the possibility to install software and it immediatly works, and I don't have to worry about upgrades18:20
treachwell, you could do the same with crux18:20
Romstercompile for the hardware also optomises it more too. than for being so genetic.18:20
RedShiftbut I'd still have to do the compiling18:20
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treachjust build the farking package with mysql and distribute it18:20
treachRomster: "generic" ;)18:20
treachRomster: that's *marginal*18:21
treachops RedShift I mean18:21
Romstertrue but ever percent counts in my book.18:21
RedShifttreach: I can honestly say I use *alot* of the things that come default with archlinux18:21
RedShiftbut again I'm not here to advocate why I prefer another distro above crux18:22
RedShiftcrux is fine as-is18:22
treachsure, I'm not saying it never makes sense to use a binary dist.18:22
treachjust that you don't really gain as much as a lot of people would like you to think18:22
RedShiftbut for managing multiple servers, using vendor supplied packages is "ease of mind"18:22
treachmmh, I agree with that.18:23
RedShiftsource based distros are fine if you have the time18:23
treachadding packages without having to worry about compiling problems is the biggest boon of binary dist afaic.18:23
RedShiftI have 4 servers now, they are all configured very differently18:24
treachbut the notion that source based dists take more time is balooney faic.18:24
Romsterhmm i guess there already tested as binarys.18:24
Romsterand any bugs are found and fixed.18:24
RedShiftand if I used crux I'd have to compile one program 4 times in a different way18:24
treachyou do *not* *need* to do it.18:25
RedShifttreach: but if I want to keep a clean, no unecessairy stuff, system, I would have to, right?18:25
treachtrue, but that's up to you to decide.18:25
treacheither you go for cleanness. or convinence18:26
treachcrux doesn't force your hand in either way18:26
RedShiftthat's true18:26
RedShiftcrux has its place18:27
RedShiftat least crux has the guts to say "here it is, take it or leave it"18:28
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RedShiftarchlinux tends to bend towards the demand of the community a bit too much to my liking...18:28
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RedShiftespecially since all that media attention we've received a huge load of newbies18:29
treachmmh. :/18:29
RedShiftyou know, the kind of people that delete lo from rc.conf because they don't know what it's for...18:29
RedShiftbecause of that, they put ifconfig lo in rc.sysinit18:30
RedShiftsomething they shouldn't have done18:30
RedShift(just a small example)18:30
RedShiftthey were going to put a warning in rc.conf first (which I'm perfectly fine with) but later changed it to include it in rc.sysinit18:31
treachkids these days have no respect. that's the problem.18:31
* treach waves cane in the air18:31
RedShiftalways wanting to change stuff18:31
RedShiftthat's how you end up with a distro like ubuntu18:31
treachwell, that's not really the problem.18:32
treachwanting to change stuff is ok, that's how you learn18:32
treachbut changing stuff you don't understand, and then whining when stuff breaks - that's the problem18:32
RedShiftmost of them don't even know the details of what hardware they are working on18:33
treachsad, but probably true. most of them probably doesn't even know what a driver is.18:34
RedShiftthey rely on things like hwd, and them come complaining the X config it generated didn't work...18:35
treachheh, right.18:35
treachmy personal favourite is when they hit some problem which would have forced them to reinstall windows, which they'd do without complaints.18:36
treachbut if they get tossed out in to the console there is no end to the whining. :P18:37
treachanyway, nighty guys.18:38
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RedShiftyeah I'm off too, it's 1:29 in the morning here18:38
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SiFuhI wonder why timestamp is largest to smallest, but most countries use dates as smallest to largest, with exception to america which complete mixes up the format.19:22
SiFuh<YYYY/MM/DD> <HH:MM>SS19:23
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RomsterSiFuh, yeah mysql format YYYY/MM/DD is the best imo.20:02
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Romsterusa is just backwards20:02
Romsterwhenit comes to date stamps20:02
Romsterand useally year isn't so important with most other things so it's DD/MM/YYYY20:03
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Romsteras for time i'd love to see 12h time scraped and have 24h time only.20:03
Romstertoo much confusion between am and pm20:03
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