IRC Logs for #crux Saturday, 2008-01-19

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pedjatilman: Why are two versions of mesa3d in xorg repo?7.0.2 as a port, and 7.0.1 is used in xorg-server build.04:03
tilmanpedja: oops. i forgot to bump the version in xorg-server :(04:03
tilmanthanks, i'll fix it now04:04
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tilmanyeah, it's pretty annoying04:06
tilmanxorg-server needs mesa to build libGLcore04:06
Romsterhmm there should be a way to get the version from the other or something..04:06
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Romsteri've saw that before but yeah i didn't think much about that.04:06
Romsterwell xorg-server requires mesa3d so do a mesa_version=`pkginfo -i |grep '^mesa3d ' |awk '{print $2}' |sed -e 's/-[0-9]$//'`04:10
Romsteror something then it'll always use the mesa3d ports version <<04:11
Romstermight be a messy idea? but it'll avoid having to worry about it again.04:14
Romsteryou'd think xorg-server could jsut work off the header in /usr/include for mesa3d/04:15
Romsterheader files*04:15
tilmanit needs the source04:16
Romsterfigured that.04:17
Romsteralthough it won't bother me being on the nvidia binary driver.04:19
pedjanote to self:rerun gl-select after updating xorg-server...04:19
Romsterah yes..04:20
Romsteri hit that snag too.04:20
Romstermaybe that should be in a readme04:20
Romstergotta love them misterys.04:21
pedjait was the WTF moment ( as in "why the fsck is everything so slow now?") :D04:23
pedjareadme is a good idea, preferably with the note in *large* font :)04:25
Romsterfor me it was why did my xorg keep freezing.04:25
pedjasepen: morning04:26
sepenalso new ati driver released04:27
sepenso Ill try to update04:28
tilmangood luck!04:29
sepenwell Im doing a sysup of my xorg first04:30
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Romsterwtf is going on with this xhtml validator grr.. i got a error here that isn't a error i've looked at it a dozen times.04:39
Romsterthink i need a break.04:39
* Romster goes to make coffee04:39
sepenRomster, seems more easy mesa_version=`pkginfo -i |grep '^mesa3d ' | cut -d' ' -f2`04:40
Romsteryou gotta remove the -2 on the end too sepen ...04:41
sepenohh sorry x)04:42
Romsterso it's left with 7.0.204:42
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Romsterbut if you got a better way i'll use it04:42
tilmanfeel free to continue to discuss this04:42
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sepenRomster, awk '{print $2}' ~= cut -d' ' -f2 thats the only different04:44
sepenor maybe $ pkginfo -i |grep '^mesa3d ' | cut -d' ' -f2 | sed s/-.*$//04:45
sepenbut release is always numeric   xP04:46
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sepenRomster, $ awk '/mesa3d/ {getline; print}' /var/lib/pkg/db | sed s/-[0-9]*//04:52
Romsteroh that's silly using the database directly when ya can use pkginfo04:59
Romsterin actaul fact pkgmk needs a patch for a argument todo this.05:00
sepenfor me would be perfect something like pkginfo -i mesa3d = pkginfo -i | grep ^mesa3d05:02
sepenand then pkginfo -iv mesa3d = 7.0.2-105:03
Romsterhmm yeah -i could kage a optional argument to only list that port insread of going though the lot.05:03
Romsterv is taken for version..05:03
sepenor whatever similar, in both cases will be fine imo05:04
Romster pkginfo -i mesa3d, returns version,  pkginfo -i --all mesa3d, returns version-build. maybe that?05:05
Romsteras build wouldn't be used that much imo.05:06
sepen-iv for = version installed05:06
Romsterwanna avoid doing 2 letters as it's convention todo -x or --xx...05:07
Romster-iv would be just -i -v05:07
sepen$ pkginfo -h | grep version05:08
sepen  -v, --version               print version and exit05:08
sepennot at this moment05:08
sepen--installed-version -iv for me05:09
Romsterthe version of pkginfo itself.05:09
sepenyeah that the problem05:09
Romstersomeone might mistake -iv for -i -v.05:09
Romsterwould like to avoid that.05:09
sepenwell core devels should give their opinions05:10
sepenfirst of all their should want to adopt this idea05:10
Romsteri'd say pkginfo -i [optional package name to return only]05:10
sepen+ 105:10
Romsteror maybe even a grep mask05:10
Romsterpkginfo -i [grep mask]05:11
sepenRomster, could you write a mail to ML, my english its really poor05:11
Romsteryeah sure.05:12
sepenand another question, someone has experimented problems trying to send a mail to jue?05:12
Romsterthe devel one you think?05:12
sepen@seen jue05:12
clbsepen: jue was last seen in #crux 38 weeks, 4 days, 18 hours, 54 minutes, and 59 seconds ago: <jue> np05:12
sepenRomster, yeah05:12
sepenIve problems sending mails to jue.li05:13
Romsterironic only recently i'm able to use the ML05:13
sepenno idea what has happened, I tried from two differents smtp servers05:13
Romsterand you can't send to jue.05:13
Romstertryed telnet to the host/port?05:14
Romstersee if you get anything05:14
sepenI found a curious thing in ocaml port05:15
sepenit depends of some various x ports but I compiled it without theirs and now running ocaml and mldonkey (which depends of ocaml) running fine05:16
Romsteryeah i read on the pastebin.05:18
Romsteri'm starting to think we need to use # Optional:05:18
Romsterand only list required to build on depends on line.05:19
sepenyeah thats the point05:19
Romsterand have a option in prt-get to warn of optional ports that oculd be used if installed05:19
sepenprt-get install --optional  port05:20
sepensomething like that05:20
sepenor in prt-get.conf05:20
Romsterhadn't figured that far05:20
sepenin another words please?05:20
Romsteri hadn't figured how prt-get should handle it, i'd leave it to just warn, about optional ports that could be used and it's upto the user to add them to the depinst line to add them.05:22
Romsterand prt-get can sort them in order if one port uses that package05:22
ryuoyea, it would be nice if prt-get could handle optional dependencies05:23
sepenwe should comment this idea to cptn05:23
sepen@seen cptn05:23
clbsepen: cptn was last seen in #crux 14 weeks, 6 days, 22 hours, 54 minutes, and 45 seconds ago: <cptn> ;-)05:23
ryuobut that would require a complete rebuild of all Pkgfiles05:23
Romsterthe drawback is, listing all the optional packages a port uses, more work for packagers.05:23
sepenhmm true05:24
ryuoit could just be left as an optional feature :p05:24
Romsterit would require testing a port for each optional port it can use and some guess work.05:24
ryuoRomster: for that, i usually check arch :p05:24
ryuoif they have the same package05:24
Romsterslack,arch etc.05:24
sepenRomster, imo just optional deps shouldn't be appear on the .footprint file05:25
Romsterand the docs on the program most say what it can use the output of configure and --help05:25
sepenand never as a real dependencies05:25
Romsteryeah i've had an idea on that too..05:25
ryuosepen: thats hard to implement05:25
ryuo.footprint has about only one use i can see05:25
ryuoprt-get fsearch05:26
Romstereach optional port that does add extra files should have some prefix in the .footprint that prt-get will ignore by default unless that port is installed.05:26
ryuoRomster: way to make prt-get 10x more complicated :>05:26
Romsterthat's the disadvanage but it solves footprint mismatches completely.05:27
sepennot as complicated as its05:27
Romsterproviding the package is built corectly.05:27
sepenyeah, with the minimal deps05:27
sepensometime the same ./configure could recognize if some dep is installd or not05:28
Romsterthen with each optional dep so there footprint options for that port is added too.05:28
ryuoRomster: one problem. not all ./configure are the same.05:28
Romsterbut that messes with KISS..05:28
ryuo.footprint can kiss my ass for all i care :>05:29
Romsterthis avoids the configure issue. providing there set to use if found.05:29
ryuoi usually end up having to ignore it with some packages05:29
ryuo.footprint serves little purpose for package authentication... .md5sum takes care of that05:30
Romsterand for configure scripts that don't use if present by default wlel it arn't ahrd to add a option todo that see nvidia and mysql if found for th qt3/qt4 package as a example of that.05:30
sepenwell a nice post for the ML too heheh05:30
Romster.footprint is a indercation of something missing when it was compiled.05:30
ryuoor Extra.05:31
Romstersadly i think my idea is not KISS and will get thrown out.05:31
ryuobasic optional dependencies'll probably work05:31
ryuobut this goes too far05:31
ryuothat is a feature i'd like to see in 2.5 or something05:32
ryuomy idea? just add one extra header line: # Optional:05:32
Romsteri'd like to see Depends on be renamed to Depends:05:32
ryuoand its structure is the same as the depends haeader05:33
ryuoits just handled differently05:33
Romsteractaully i wanan go a step more Required, Optional, not sure about Recomended.05:33
Romsterrequired for what is needed to build.05:34
sepen+1 for # Optional:05:34
Romsteroptional would be good.05:34
ryuoif optional became and official header, i think it would be a KISS way to handle it05:34
Romsterok how about Depends On is renamed to Required and optional is added?05:34
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Romsterrequired to build and run, optional for everything else.05:35
ryuoif we submit this to jaeger, we should try to make it as KISS as possible.05:35
sepenhey Man0l005:35
sepentilman, ping?05:35
Romsterryuo, can't get easier than that no need to guess what should ya add in and what to keep out.05:35
tilmanwe use # Nice to have for optional dependencies atm05:36
ryuoi think # Depends On: should be left alone05:36
tilmanbut prt-get ignores it05:36
Romsteryeah but prt-get dosn't honor it.05:36
ryuoor changed and left in for...05:36
ryuodeprecated uses05:36
Romsteri've already started to use Optional:05:36
sepentilman, did you read this example?
Man0l0morning sepen05:37
ryuoif someone updated prt-get to handle this, i wonder if the crux team would consider the patch for inclusion05:37
Romster# Nice to have:, is too long imo.05:37
ryuoit would be a nice improvement for 2.505:37
ryuoif done in a KISS enough way05:38
tilmanwhat would prt-get do if it encountered # Optional packages?05:38
ryuo.footprint is helpful, but on some packages its downright broken to heck05:38
ryuotilman: be able to optionally install all of them if its commanded to?05:38
tilmantbh this looks like a typical thing a new crux user would suggest05:38
* tilman ducks05:38
Romsterfootprint should only list what is on the epends on line05:38
Romstertoo gentooish?05:39
ryuoWhats wrong with trying to improve the system but try to still keep it KISS?05:39
Romsteri'd say prt-get would give a nice INFO: optional packages you can use with this port.....05:40
tilmanfeel free to suggest it05:40
ryuo... hrm05:40
ryuoheres an idea, tilman.05:40
Romsterand let the user do ctrl-c and add them to the system.05:40
tilmansepen: maybe the server doesn't like that you put your sourceforge address in the From header05:40
ryuoafter prt-get installs, prt-get could report to the user what packages were installed that have optional dependencies05:40
sepentilman, hmm05:40
tilmansince sourceforge doesn't belong to (your isp?)05:40
sepenat office05:40
Romsterryuo, it would heva to be before if youw atned to compile in optional support.05:41
Romsteryou wanted*05:41
ryuobetter for before yes05:41
ryuoto prevent recompilation05:41
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sepentilman, that would be the problem. thnx05:41
Romsterlike a few second pause witha  warn option packages can be used: list05:41
sepenbut did you read the same problem I've with not required deps?05:42
sepenis the same point we discuss here05:42
Romsterand if no interention continue.05:42
tilmansepen: i agree ocaml shouldn't depend on x05:42
Romstersepen, yes05:42
Romstersame thing as pinenty05:42
sepentilman, what x port should appear in optional metar05:42
Romsterthat askes for xorg stuff too.05:42
Romsterbut i haven't reported that yet.05:43
Romstersepen, yeah them 2 ports should be listed in Optional:05:43
tilmansepen: xorg-libx11, and whatever other libraries it uses05:43
sepenpfff *poor english**05:43
Romstersepen, same idea as you :)05:43
Romsterxorg isn't required but is optional.05:44
sepenIll try to play with optional deps and pkgmk.conf, not sure05:45
sepenohh mistake prt-get.conf05:45
ryuoKISS me :>05:46
sepenimo something similar to --install-scripts05:46
ryuobetter yet.05:48
Romsteri'd not even use that useflags idea someone here came up with.05:48
Romsteri'd jsut give a notice of option ports that can be used.05:48
ryuoprt-get warns you if anything your trying to install has optional dependencies05:48
Romsterand let the user decide what todo.05:48
ryuoand asks if you wish to proceed05:48
Rotwangwhy not useflags are not stupid05:48
ryuo--optional would override this and install ALL optional dependencies related to what your installing05:49
sepenprt-get should doing tasks automatically05:49
ryuoor it could just inform you about their existance05:49
ryuothat would be simple enough05:49
ryuoso you can abort and install them manually if you want05:49
Romsterwhy when you can go "prt-get depinst xine-ui" oh i can add x264 ctrl+c add "prt-get depinst x264 xine-ui"05:50
Romsterand it's off.05:50
Romsterhow simpler could that be05:50
Romsterand no useflags05:50
ryuoyou sayin my ideas dumb? :(05:50
Romsteri jsut don't really likeit i didn't say it was dumb...05:51
RotwangRomster: for crux use flags we need only one more variable in pkgmk.conf05:51
Romsterwhy this useflags.. ti's a gentoo feature not a crux feature.05:51
Romsterif ya want it goto gentoo imo.05:52
tilmanyou could have a variable in prt-get.conf that says whether you always want to install *all* optional deps or not05:52
Romsterpeople in crux oved to get away from that...05:52
tilmanbut i'm not sure how much sense it would make to enable that :P05:52
sepen+1 prt-get.conf idea05:52
RotwangRomster: but you trying to do something similar05:53
ryuotilman: i think a better approach would be to simply tell the user all optional dependencies related to what he wants to install with depinst and ask if they wish to proceed anyway05:53
Romstercommand line option or prt-get.conf option todo install all optional packages.05:53
ryuo      used: list05:54
RomsterRotwang, my idea is to inform of optional ports it can use that arn't installed and give the user the option to install them. at that time.05:54
Romsteronce a optional package is installed it'll act as the useflag says to use it.05:54
ryuohow hard would it be to allow crux to inform the user of optional dependencies they can make use of by manual installation?05:55
Romsterso the installed packge is the useflag.05:55
Romsteri doubt it would be hard at all.05:55
ryuoheck, archs packaging system makes crux's look infantile...05:55
ryuobut do we really need that level of features?05:56
Romsteractually seting a use flag in my opinion is useless when a installed package can be the used this package that is installed.05:56
ryuoyou suggest packagin a USEFILE into each port that is then ignored upon installation?05:57
Romsteri'm sugesting prt-get informs the user of optional packages that it can use if installed, it's upto the user to break prt-get and add on the line what the person wants to install.05:59
Romsteronce a optional package is installed it dosn't inform of that optional package it gets used as per normal05:59
Romsterbasic and to the point.06:00
ryuoRomster: shouldn't there be a prompt so it doesnt go zooming by?06:00
Romsteri'd recon a short pause.06:00
ryuohow about the pause is set in prt-get.conf?06:01
Romsterand continue after that without any optional ports.06:01
ryuoso users can specify longer pauses06:01
Romsterthat's an idea pase time set in prt-get.conf.06:01
Romsterit's KISS and lets the user choose what they want todo manually.06:01
ryuoalso, disabling or enabling the notification by default is a good idea06:01
ryuoin prt-get.conf06:01
Romsterset it to 0 or commented otu to be no pause.06:02
Romsterpause=0 to disable and not wait.06:02
ryuoi can hardly wait for the day when great 3D drivers are available for xorg that are not proprietary06:03
Romsterand pause=<seconds> to wait and show optional packages that arn't installed.06:03
Romsterryuo, i wait every day for that.06:03
ryuowe'll see in about a year if the ATI thing goes anywhere06:03
Romsterso ryuo you agree to that low level of leting the user decide what they want.06:04
ryuoon prt-get?06:04
ryuoi think the simplest way is to just06:04
ryuoinform them06:04
ryuoits better than having no idea about optional depends you could be enjoying06:05
Romsterand takes the guess work out of the package on what to include and what not too.06:05
ryuoit should also be included in prt-get info06:06
Romsterheck if it dosn't happen to prt-get i might jsut go to hell with it and do my own prt-get in bash or something as a proof of concept.06:06
ryuosubmit it to crux as a feature request and see what they say?06:07
Romsterprt-get info lists all the meta tags now so it should.06:07
Romsteryeah will do.06:07
ryuoif its simple enough they may include it06:07
Romstercant do any harm.06:07
ryuoif not, you could fork crux ;)06:07
Romsteralot simpler than my other ideas i've thought of.06:08
ryuobut the fact that crux hasn't been forked at all06:08
Romsterheh i suck at programing.06:08
ryuolead me to believe people are satisfied with it as it is06:08
Romstereh i have a few dislikes but alot of likes.06:08
Romsteri liek the having control over what is installed how it works what it does etc.06:09
ryuomy "programming" skills is just handling basic shell scripts :P06:09
Romsterdon't like something change it.06:09
tilmanryuo: arch was inspired more than a bit by crux iirc06:09
ryuobut its not a fork, tilman.06:09
ryuoi got tired of the arch community constant "I can't shut the hell up" syndrome...06:10
Romsterso they all bitch?06:10
ryuosee for yourself some time06:10
ryuothere always seems to be someone whos spammin06:11
Romsterlol maybe i should idle in there.06:11
Romstersuprised we haven't had a spammer in here in ages.06:11
ryuoits hard to take it seriously when 90% of the chat is offtopic06:11
Romsterjust that anoyting troll that got a like for pissing me off.06:11
ryuoRomster: not your version of spamming. theres just a constant flow of chat06:12
ryuogets kinda old... you idle for awhile and come back to more crap than you want to read06:12
Romsterwell we tend to talk about anything we like in here.06:12
Romsteruseally msot of it's either interesting or good humor/news06:13
Romsteri liek the relaxed atmosphere, not like the, that's off topic take it else where.06:13
* ryuo starts a #crux-en channel.06:13
Romsterwe have a $crux-ot06:13
ryuothat would be redundant since06:14
ryuo#crux is already english =p06:14
Romsterenglish is default i guess06:14
ryuo"Sorry, I don't speak British."06:14
sepenalan cox speaks walesh too06:15
ryuoWhats happened to innocent until proven guilty?06:17
ryuonowadays its "Guilty until proven innocent"06:17
Romsterseems to be shoot first ask later.06:17
sepenati updated! x)06:17
Romsteri'd say cool sepen if i had a ati card <<06:18
ryuo      used: list06:18
ryuoi have an ATI x1600 somewhere06:18
ryuobut it just collects dust :p06:18
sepenI need a reboot06:18
* ryuo handles sepen as reboot.06:18
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ryuokernel: error: user too smart.06:19
ryuo      used: list06:20
ryuowhy does xorg keep doing that when i switch back06:21
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sepenwell running fine06:21
sepen$ glxinfo | grep -i render06:22
sependirect rendering: Yes06:22
sepenOpenGL renderer string: ATI RADEON 9600 Series06:22
ryuoATI sux :(06:22
ryuoright now :p06:22
Romsteryeah i'm on xchat you could of asked..06:22
Romsterand no i'm not laging i'm jsut on and off chat.06:22
ryuoeply from Romster:06:22
ryuoman that gets old06:22
sepenyeah ati sucks but its the only card I've on this box06:22
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Romstercool i hope i don't see them being used for critical aplications <_<06:31
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ryuo"DRM: Consumers rights? **** that. My owner's rights are all that matter. MUAHAAHAHA!"07:51
discomaxushow can i rebuild all packages with prt-get? or i have to do it for each port?07:54
sepenprt-get update -fr `prt-get quickdep port`07:54
ryuoyou want a quick way to do it?07:54
ryuothat works...07:55
ryuoif your changing optimizations or gcc07:55
ryuoyou recompile the tool chain a few times07:55
ryuopersonally i think if your changing optimizations, it should be done soon after initial installation...07:56
tilmanif i decide to use -Os in the future you recommend i recompile the build chain?08:07
ryuofine, its your system.08:16
ryuoif it screws up, its your own fault :>08:16
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tilmangah, i just punched in a reply08:19
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ciit's been a while since my last join09:50
Romsterthen alot woulld of changed then.09:57
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cicrux however likes handworking as before10:02
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mike_k"crux: handmade in Sweden"10:15
cikinda masterpiece )10:15
cihi, mike_k10:15
cikak ono? )10:16
mike_kci: hi10:35
mike_kas usual10:35
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triis pam support for crux planned ?14:24
treachNot afaik14:33
triI have created a new shadow package and a new linux-pam package to get pam support but it still needs testing14:37
triif somebody is interested I might put it online somewhere14:37
triI also have found this thread
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yyzhi. could anyone help me compile the latest Firefox? I took firefox-source from Han, changed the version to 3.0b2, pointed it to use cairo-gtk2 in the included mozconfig file, and disabled dbus (should I?). It compiles ok until a part near the end of the port that looks like some sort of firefox-config fix. "pkgconfig" install build/unix/*.pc. These files/directories do not exist, apparently.16:18
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ryuoHey Romster16:50
ryuoI've found myself using some of the Apps made for ROX desktop, so I'm writing ports for the ones I use :>16:50
ryuoto complement the ones already in opt16:51
ryuorox apps are working better in crux than any other distro i've tried16:53
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discomaxusCaptain_Hruk> ))17:07
Captain_HrukHi, I'm trying to boot CRUX livecd from usb stick. I've copied everything to the stick, installed syslinux, modified conf. file. Kernel and initramfs are in the root directory and paths to them are correct. System boots kernel and then complains that initramfs cannot be found. Any idea ? (p.s. I've done similar procedure many times before with various distros and had no problems). Thanks for your help.17:08
ryuoWish I could help you, but I have no experience with USB booting.17:16
ryuoWhy can't you just use the CD method?17:16
ryuo(burn iso, insert CD, etc)17:17
Captain_HrukInteresting - I´ve  just renamed initramfs to initrd and it works fine now. Could be because initramfs is londer than 8 characters, FAT/syslinux limitation ?17:18
jaegerseems likely17:18
ryuowelp, whatever floats your boat.17:20
ryuoi'm guessing you don't have a cd drive on the computer in question17:20
Captain_Hrukjust playing with USB booting :)17:20
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ryuoanyone here have some web space i can use for a httpup ports repo?18:18
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Rotwangryuo: find some free hosting :P18:36
ryuokinda hard to find a place that won't pull the plug on you unexpectedly18:36
ryuoAND is free18:36
ryuonot to mention reliable18:36
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KozakCannot convert message: Convertion from character set `UTF-8` to `ru_RU.KOI8-R` is not supported18:50
Kozakwhat wrong ?18:50
Kozakvte-warning **: Unable to convert character from ru_RU.KOI8-R to X-VTE-GUNICHAR18:53
Kozaksegmentation fault18:54
Kozakwhen running Terminal (xfce)18:54
RotwangKOI8-R try this one18:54
Kozakbingo !18:56
Kozakwhat wrong ?18:56
Rotwangwrong variable value i suppose18:56
Rotwangi had the same problem with pl_PL..UTF-818:57
Kozakbig thanks...18:58
Rotwangits good to feel useful ;)18:59
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Romsterafternoon all.19:43
ryuohey Romster19:45
Romsterhi ryuo19:47
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ryuoi'm porting some of the ROX apps :)19:48
ryuothe only ones that seem functional right now are some of the panel applets though19:49
Romsterread that earlier, wonder if there should be a dedecated rox tree.19:49
Romsterhow many packages would there be if all of rox was done?19:49
ryuoa lot...19:50
ryuoabout 20 or so19:50
ryuosome of them i couldn't get to work at all19:50
ryuoso i didnt bother porting them19:50
ryuothe ones i have gotten to work are the19:50
Romsterkeep the pkgfiles for the? to try later.19:50
ryuoRomster, their method of packagin this stuff is unusual19:51
ryuosome of it is entirely python script19:51
Romstersounds like a plan to put them in a rox repo.19:51
ryuoand it crashes when i try to run them19:51
Romsterpython setuptools?19:51
ryuotheir method of execution is to run the programs19:51
ryuoits compatible with rox-filer19:52
ryuoif i can't get it to even run19:52
ryuothe panel apps seem functional so19:52
ryuoits mostly the regular apps that won't work19:52
Romstertar it up and send me the stuff even the broken ones i'll have a dig at them sometime.19:53
ryuoall i'm porting are the parts that extend rox's functionality19:53
ryuoi deleted the broken ports :o19:53
Romstergah silly..19:53
ryuoso far all i've completely ported is the functional system tray19:53
Romsteri keep them in attic or testing and when i get bored i useally try again.19:53
ryuoworks fairly well19:53
ryuoworking on the tasklist and clock now19:54
Romsterhmm i'm not happy with pypannel maybe that might be what i'm after.19:54
ryuoit requires some python bindings.19:54
ryuoyou up to that?19:54
ryuopygtk mainly19:54
Romsterfor one the systemtray dosn't work right, and the items don't group on the taskbar.19:54
ryuoi noticed no one has really ported much of rox19:54
Romsterah there is a pygtk port already somewhere/19:55
ryuoin opt19:55
Romsterryuo, well lets start a rox porttree :)19:55
ryuorox, rox-lib and rox-archive are already in it19:55
ryuoopt that is19:55
Romsterand see how we go.19:55
ryuoi'm writing ports to supplement it19:55
ryuothe only part of my ports that are bad is19:55
ryuosince i'm not sure their exact depends19:56
ryuosome of them i added a line to run it through its own compile script19:56
Romsterah i can sort that out with my safe-build package unles you wanna try that out.19:56
ryuoi'll let you have a look when i finish these last few19:56
ryuorox also has a session manager19:56
ryuolight weight i hear...19:57
ryuonot sure if it works though19:57
ryuoproblem is, their recommended installation method is entirely in userspace19:57
ryuoor rather19:57
ryuonot in the system files19:57
ryuotheir tasklist/pager require an obscure gnome library to function19:58
ryuookay... tasklist is functional19:59
ryuothese apps also work if run as regular programs, but work best if integrated into a ROX panel19:59
ryuoi love this window list better than any of the others i've used20:01
ryuo2 more ports to finish20:01
ryuomaybe in time ede will be worth porting too20:01
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ryuoPanelClock is working...20:12
ryuowith no fuss20:12
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Romsterhi aon20:17
Romsterryuo, if i setup a mercurial repo for rox and give you access and list it on portdb. would you be interested?20:25
Romsterhmm in that ox with openbox screen shot, i see that cool face like on doom wonder what plugin that is. and i notice the cpu temp 74C and it's only under 4% load O_o20:26
RyoSRomster: i am pro mercurial for crux ports :o20:29
Romsterryuo, i use mercurial for all my stuff now except contrib i'm stuck to using git.20:29
RyoS <- this repo runs mercurial and you just need to install that hg driver from it and then you can access it perfectly like contrib etc20:30
ryuoi'd prefer sticking to rsync20:30
ryuoor httpup20:30
ryuounless this is compatible20:30
ryuowith those20:30
RyoSrsync is fine too, but httpup is pretty slwo20:30
Romsterhgup O_o20:31
ryuoi'll finish this pager port20:31
ryuoin a moment20:31
Romsteri have rsync and httpup on my private repo, hmm debated about geting my file changed to rsync but then the P F M links disapear.20:32
ryuobad thing about rsync is20:33
ryuoyou can't review individual pkgfiles, etc over the net20:33
ryuoweb browser20:33
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haolei forgot wich option in the kernel i need to compile to get the /dev/dsp false device... does any of u know?20:34
Romsterryuo, yeah that part sucks..20:35
Romsterdisable OSS audio20:36
Romsterhaole, ^20:36
ryuoALSA > OSS20:36
Romsterand remove alsa-oss20:36
Romsterfrom ports.20:36
ryuostill dont understand why gnome/kde insist on reinventing the wheel...20:36
ryuowith their own sound systems20:37
ryuowhen alsa works just fine20:37
haoleim setting this for xmame20:37
haoleis there an equivalent device for alsa in /dev?20:37
haoleone device that does it all?20:37
ryuoi don't know?20:37
ryuoall i know is alsa output can be mixed20:37
ryuoso one device doesnt hog the sound output20:38
ryuoso my music can play and i can still hear pidgins sound effects20:38
ryuofor example20:38
Romsterarts is to lattency.20:39
ryuoi dont even use any of the optional sound daemons20:39
ryuoi just use alsa output20:39
ryuoi dont even has a /dev/dsp20:39
haoleryuo, i don't have an /dev/dsp too, but then i can't get sound on my MAME games :(20:40
ryuoyour emulator doesnt' work with alsa?20:41
haoleim using xmame... when i start the game, it tells me that it can't find /dev/dsp20:41
haoleand, in the configuration file, it asks for the sound device20:42
haolethe default is /dev/dsp20:42
ryuoyou could try another mame emulator20:42
haoleis there any?20:42
ryuolemme show up20:43
Romsterhaole, try /dev/audio20:43
haoleok20:43 is a great place to find emulators :)20:43
haoleRomster, i don't have a /dev/audio too20:43
ryuo(has been an emulator user for 10 years+)20:44
ryuomy first emulator was probably zsnes for dos20:44
haoleand i have sound in everything!! :D20:44
Romster$ ls -l /dev/audio*20:44
Romstercrw-rw---- 1 root audio 14,  4 2008-01-06 12:55 /dev/audio20:44
Romstercrw-rw---- 1 root audio 14, 20 2008-01-06 12:55 /dev/audio120:44
haoleryuo, for me also! :D20:44
Romsteri have 2 sound cards.20:44
ryuo/bin/sh: /dev/audio: No such file or directory20:44
haole/bin/sh: /dev/audio: No such file or directory20:45
ryuotheres only 2 good snes emulators now20:45
ryuosnes9x and zsnes20:45
ryuozsnes > snes9x on x86 if you ask me20:45
ryuosnes9x is for those wierd archs20:45
haolezsnes rocks... it is ugly, but it is the best20:45
ryuolike arm20:45
ryuoi like my emulators with their own GUI personally20:46
ryuobut most of them are CLI invoked20:46
ryuofor example, the only good GBA emulator for linux, vga20:46
ryuoodd thing is, on default settings it runs at 2x normal speed20:47
ryuoif i try to throttle it to normal speed20:47
ryuoit sounds really wierd20:47
Romsterif you add in your card for default in /etc/asound.conf you can sue 'default' in all your programs.20:47
haoledont have a /etc/asound.conf yet...20:49
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ryuookay romster20:57
ryuoi've finished the ports for now20:57
Romsterhaole, heres mine as a guide
Romsterimo haveing a default is handy then all programs can use that20:58
Romsterand it's easy to change sound device later on in one swoop if need be.20:59
Romsterremove the headphone one if oyu like i got on board sound for that and a soundblaster for my hifi music.20:59
ryuowhat shall i do with the ports now?20:59
Romsterryuo, k i'll check them out on my desktop.20:59
ryuoall my ports are these21:00
ryuodir /usr/ports/local21:00
ryuo/bin/sh: /usr/ports/local: is a directory21:00
ryuoPanelClock  PyPanel  ROX-CLib  SystemTrayN  Tasklist  idesk  pager  powwow21:00
Romsteri'll setup a rox repo and have us as able to edit though mercurial21:00
ryuotake a look. i haven't set Maintainer tags yet though21:01
ryuodependencies need to be reviewed though21:01
Romsterk that's not a biggie.21:01
Romsterjsut set the packager filed as yurself.21:01
Romsterand tar it up and i'll have a look at them. i might like it on my desktop too.21:02
Romsterryuo, why not setup a dynamic ip services and host the files on your pc?21:03
Romsterand add your repo to the portdb21:03
ryuonot sure if i should right now21:04
Romsterta i'll look over them later i've got more html to edit.21:05
Romsterand i'm redoing my iptables firewall script too.21:05
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ryuothats really wierd21:25
ryuorox panel's window list shows... the panel in its own window list...21:26
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LinRevHey...I've been using Arch for awhile and was curious about Crux22:17
LinRevIs Crux as long a process to set up as Arch?  Or is the installer simpler?22:19
ryuoi'm here?22:29
ryuoLinRev: Its more complicated, mainly in the realm of kernels. you have to compile your own.22:30
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ryuohey Romster.22:33
ryuoI'm making use of pekwm's autogrouping :). so far i've set leafpad, aterm, and rox-filer windows to autogroup with their own kind22:34
Romsterlol you scared LinRev away.22:35
ryuoif kernel compilation scares him, hes not ready for crux :p22:35
Romsterah i've wondered if i'd like that feature.22:35
Romster1038 line firewall script ugh... so taking ages to sort this mess out.22:37
Romsteryeah the title bar seems to be alot of wasted space.22:37
ryuoautogrouping i set for use in apps i have a lot of instances open of22:37
Romstervim, term, firefox would be my main ones.22:38
Romsterwhy can't pypanel have grouping too..22:38
ryuomy irssi, etc, instances pair with aterm...22:38
ryuowell Romster22:38
ryuoi think the best tabs are integrated into the WM itslef22:39
Romsterlike how the windows xp panel works.22:39
ryuowindows list on rox panel can group the same windows22:39
Romsterah neat.22:39
ryuoauto and always22:39
ryuoare the main types22:39
ryuoauto groups after a certain number is reached22:39
ryuoalways is obvious22:39
Romsteri only want to group when i got to many open and it gets clutered.22:39
ryuoi prefer the WM way though22:40
Romsterauto sounds like it.22:40
ryuoits kinda neater22:40
Romsteri could do both <_<22:40
ryuoi don't use it for firefox22:40
ryuoi just use tabbed browsing22:40
Romsteryeah sometimes i have a few firefoxes open for difernt groups.22:41
Romster2-3 sometimes.22:41
ryuoi've ditched the pinboard and just use a panel now :o22:41
ryuoi still use the rox filer though :)22:41
Romsteri never bothered with the pinboard.22:41
ryuopinboards okay22:42
ryuomain reason i switched is cause22:42
ryuoconky kept showing up in the freakin window list22:42
ryuowhat a nuisance22:42
ryuoi fixed the issue with the panel appearing in the window list by22:42
ryuosetting it as a dock22:42
ryuothink i'm gonna switch from irssi to xchat when in xorg now22:44
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Romsteri've been on xchat when in xorg, but i used to use mIRC22:54
Romsterin windows.22:54
Romsterxchat has a nice python plugin system but it's GUI layout if fuggly.22:54
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prologichmm bit late now23:22
prologicbut that guy earlier23:22
prologiccrux is actually eaiser than most distros :)23:22
prologicinstall core system in <10mins23:22
prologicprt-get depinst xfce423:22
prologicgo have lucnh :)23:23
Romsterheh yeah23:29
Romsteroh prologic ya should be able to mail the mailing list now if you haven't noticed.23:29
ryuohey romster23:33
ryuowhats the best time you've managed on compiling gcc before?23:33
ryuothis PC has done it in about 36 minutes before i think23:33
Romsteri haven't measured and which gcc version and type there is a few. and if that included bootstraping too. and -O2 etc.23:39
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prologicryuo, what specs ?23:43
Romsteryeah and that too.23:44
ryuo2.4 ghz and 1 GB of ram thats probably all that is essential23:44
Romstercompile in a ramfs?23:45
ryuono i compiled on the regular file system23:45
ryuothis was when i used lunar linux23:45
ryuoit told me how much time it took23:45
ryuoi'd probably be using lunar if it was still barebones23:46
Romsteri thought you were a arch person?23:47
ryuoso did you look at the the ports yet?23:47
ryuoi used lunar too before23:47
ryuoi was jumpin from various distros23:47
Romsterah not yet messign with html and my firewall script doing a bit of both.23:47
ryuoubuntu, mandriva, pclinuxos, arch, crux, gentoo, lunar23:48
ryuofrugalware, zenwalk23:48
ryuothats all i can remember23:48
Romsterah k23:48
ryuolunars pretty decent... heh23:48
ryuobut eh23:48
ryuothey don't release updated ISOs very often23:49
Romsterah the 1-10 scale on updates for stable why update to lets keep it bleeding edge stable and maybe break something.23:49
ryuolunar was usin the unstable gtk2 in its repos23:50
Romsteri prefer to keep it near bleeding edge23:50
ryuoand it ****ed up xfce23:50
Romsterah that's a bugger.23:50
ryuostuff crashed unexpectedly23:50
Romstershould only be used for testing23:50
ryuokinda made me think they were nuts :p23:50
Romsterlol unstable gtk yet low frequency on releases...23:51
Romsterthat is nuts23:51
ryuoi wonder if musepack'll catch on like vorbis has23:51
Romsteri don't mind unstable if it is stable enough.23:52
ryuoi didnt use it in the past because of its previous state23:52
ryuobut its now improved...23:52
Romsterpreditorfreak has a updated forked version that has more current stuff in it.23:52
Romsterin his repo23:52
ryuoRomster, check the rox software page if you wanna see everything that is available for porting.23:53
Romsterthe origional programer dosn't update it much except for bug fixes.23:53
ryuothe stuff thats already ported should be left alone (the ones in opt)23:53
Romsteri looked didn't see the page i was looking for.23:53
ryuookay lemme show you then23:54
ryuoif you think about it...23:54
ryuocygwin is like wine except its used on windows for a unix API23:55
Romsterah i was looking on the downloads page as that usealy tells ya what there is.23:55
ryuorox used to be just a file manager23:55
Romsterthe puzzling thing is the xorg for windows.23:56
Romstercould windoze users replace explorer O_o23:56
ryuoi've seen people using linux window managers on windows23:56
ryuoi assume through cygwin23:56
Romsteri never got into that stuff but if i was still a windows person i'd of tryed.23:57
ryuoits a way of enjoying linux software and enjoying full windows API23:57
ryuo*imagines a memory bathroom* "Don't forget to flush!"23:59

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