IRC Logs for #crux Monday, 2008-01-28

ryuoWhat is this joke you speak of?00:01
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pitillogood morning01:22
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ryuoRomster: find any good window decor lately?02:54
ryuoi found e16's 23oz glass stuff02:58
ryuoseems pretty decent...02:58
ryuobut imho, most of the e16/17 themes suck balls02:58
ryuoRomster: you tried out the xdesktopwaves program?02:59
ryuomaybe you should sometime. it creates the illusion of water on your root window.03:05
ryuoman this CD is a pain.03:06
ryuoit has 75 tracks >_<03:06
Romsterah yeah i read about that but not tryed it.03:13
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DarkNekroshi everybody ;)04:22
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SiFuh_la la la12:45
SiFuh_good morning @crux12:45
Rotwangpom pom pom good evening SiFuh_12:46
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tilmanpom pom pom?13:07
treach :>13:08
Rotwangla la la pom pom pom we are singing a song with SiFuh_13:08
tilmanare you a cheerleader Rotwang? ;)13:09
treachsing song sing along, tilman. :)13:09
tilmanyes, i got it13:09
tilmanthrice`: wanna maintain gnome?13:10
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thrice`tilman: kicked the gnome habit awhile ago =)13:31
thrice`I forgot about the gnome repo, too =|  that one could be tough.  is maro still on crux?13:31
tilmanwho knows13:33
tilmanhe announced his leave many moons ago fwiw13:33
tilmani should probably issue a call for adoption on the crux list13:33
tilmanroliveira: thanks for your offer. we'll have a look at your ports to sanity-check them and get back to you then13:34
thrice`is jaeger going to give them up, even?13:35
tilmani understood he didn't want to continue to maintain it13:35
tilmanthough he didn't say explicitly13:35
jaegerhaven't really decided on the gnome repo... it's not official13:35
tilmansorry for jumping the gun13:36
jaegerno worries13:36
jaegerif someone REALLY wants it I would be surprised :)13:36
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tilmanme too13:37
mwalling_thrice` just said in another channel that he would be more then happy to maintain GNOME13:37
* mwalling_ runs13:37
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tilmanwhat was that13:38
thrice`if crux sponsors me a quad-core, I will take the offer13:39
tilmanlet me check the CRUX linux organization bank account13:40
tilmanoh wait13:40
thrice`or, I can maintain my new desktop choice, of fluxbox :-)13:40
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Auge^stupid question: does a nfs-client need the portmap?14:27
treachor, not strictly, but it works very badly without it, IME14:28
Auge^ok, than i know where my problems belong...14:28
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Auge^nfs sucks. client and server crashed at the same time... :(14:40
RedShiftAuge^: are you using nfs over gigabit?14:42
Auge^the icybox has a gbit interface... and i looked at it and the lamps were on, all the time.14:47
Auge^what??? now i can't login as root anymore... just as user.14:49
Auge^icybox is a small raid-capable nas box.14:49
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Auge^oh no... i got a discussion thread about problems of this icybox with the Samsung HD501LJ  - i have this combination :(14:52
Auge^ok, i have to change the samsungs :/14:58
rehabdollany suggestions on what to use instead of nfs? samba?15:00
Auge^ok, i have to copy back data... and change the samsung disks... :(( damn!!15:02
RedShiftrehabdoll: what's wrong with nfs?15:03
rehabdollnothing, just open to other suggestions :)15:04
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RedShiftok people, small question for all of you15:43
RedShiftI don't want you to look this up, just answer straight away what you think15:43
RedShiftif you've got 250 euro, that's taxed at 20%, how do you get the amount without tax?15:43
thrice`250/1.20 ?15:44
RedShiftthis is the right channel for me15:45
thrice`wait, don't you use arch ?15:45
RedShiftugh yes15:45
* RedShift ducks15:45
RomsterRemote filesystem in userspace using SSH15:46
RedShiftsome other channel I was selling a server, some guys were calculating the price without taxes15:46
RedShiftone did * 0.80, some other dude went (totalamount - 20% of that amount), etc...15:47
RedShiftand the worst part was, they thought they were right...15:47
Romsterrehabdoll, ^15:47
RedShifthi Romster, is prologic awake?15:48
thrice`nope, it's X + 0.2*X = 25015:48
thrice`now, if you' been through algebra, X + 0.2X gives 1.2X15:48
RomsterRedShift, ih, he be at work but he should be able to read though his bnc pl_work15:48
rehabdollRomster: thanks but im looking for a quicker alternative :)15:49
Romsterthrice`, if X = 1, yes15:49
thrice`(1)X+0.2(X) ?15:50
Romsterit is quick install run sshfs name@server:/path mountpoint15:50
Romsterhow much faster cna ya get....15:50
Romsteri was looking at your X + 0.2*X = 25015:51
RedShiftRomster: I got a great dedicated server offer for him but it's very limited time only15:51
RedShiftonly lasts untill the end of this month15:51
Romsterthrice`, if X =1, that would be '1 + 0,2 * 1 = 0.2' ?15:52
RomsterRedShift, ah k you got his phone number?15:52
thrice`Romster: sorry, consult school notes, or just trust me :-)15:52
RedShiftwhat? I'm not gonna call him for that :D15:52
RedShiftI'm not a salesman15:52
RedShiftI'm so annoyed with telemarketeers, why would I do that to someone else15:53
Romsteri'll send him a quick sms to tell him to read in #lab15:53
RedShiftRomster: it's in #se15:53
Romsteroh is too that be why he never saw it.15:54
RedShiftI'll c/p it into #lab15:54
Romsterhe is at work so only pl_work would work.. and he arn't in #se so he would only see it when he got home.15:54
Romsterthrice`, ? are you stuck to using nfs for some project/assignment?15:55
thrice`nope - I don't work with IT15:55
RedShiftyou don't?15:56
thrice`nope :-)15:56
RedShiftyou don't have a job in IT?15:56
thrice`no, i'm a mechanical engineer15:56
RedShiftomg /me bows15:56
thrice`haha, does that make me lucky? :P15:56
rehabdollRomster: the datarate isnt very high compared to other alternatives16:13
Romsteris that a issue?16:13
Romstercould maybe try smb16:13
Romsteror a ftpfs16:14
rehabdollthis is on my lan btw16:14
rehabdollgbit network16:14
Romsterso it's protected behind a firewall.16:14
RedShiftwhy not just use sftp?16:15
rehabdollsmb/nfs seems like the big two16:15
RedShift(ftp via ssh)16:15
RedShiftrehabdoll: there are a bunch of other network filesystems, but I'd just use NFS16:15
Romsteryou'd never use the full capacity of gigabit unless you used raid hdd setup.16:15
RedShiftRomster: there are harddrives that can reach 125 MB/s these days16:15
RedShiftso no raid needed anymore :D16:15
treachrsync is a better option than plain sftp/scp16:16
treachand raid still have advantages. ;)16:16
Romsterdata redundency.16:16
rehabdolltrue but 40-80 megabytes/sec is a lot quicker than ~10 with 100mbit :)16:16
RedShiftRomster: no, not data redundancy, hardware redundancy16:18
RedShiftraid is not a replacement for a backup16:18
treachno, not a replacement, but a compliment.16:19
RedShiftno not really16:19
RedShiftraid is for performance/being online when a component fails16:19
RedShiftbackups are for restoring data16:19
treachif you're using raid{1,5,6,10} chances are pretty good you don't have to dig out your backups if something happens.16:20
RedShiftbut raid is not a replacement for backups16:21
RedShiftyou should still make backups16:21
treachdid I say so?16:21
RedShift(btw raid 6 rocks)16:21
RedShiftraid works great on linux16:21
Romsterraid reduces the chances of having to use your backups, i never said you don't need to still backup.16:23
treachRedShift: raid still blows a single disk way for sustained throughput, and also, the disks in a raid array are probably likley to last a fair bit longer than if you constantly max out a single one.. :>16:23
RedShiftyes, ofcourse16:23
RedShiftRAID implemented properly is awesome16:24
RedShiftstay away from adaptec16:24
treachI'd hate to see what happens with multiple client accessing that single disk. :P16:24
Romsterwithout disk caching16:24
RedShiftprocs_blocked = 100 <- oops!16:25
Romsterbe fighting i want this sector no this one first.16:25
RedShiftoh well, if you really want to get to hang with the cool kids, get a big-ass SAN16:27
treachnah, all you've gotta do is join the solaris crowd and start dissing linux.16:28
treachthe'll take you in right away. :>16:28
treachand you get to feel in, and important right away. :>16:29
RedShiftthey wish they could get someone as valuable as me...16:29
RedShiftI'm in the linux camp right now, nobody's getting in my tux fortress16:31
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Romsterhrmm i'm tempted to downgrade my nvidia again..16:55
Romstercan't get glx to work.16:55
nipuLyou're just not trying hard enough16:59
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andariusgreetings and salutations17:00
nipuLlive long and prosper17:00
andariusi hope to ;)17:01
nipuLanyhoo, speaking of raid, I just had a disk failure. now waiting for the new drive to sync...17:07
nipuLwaiting, waiting, waiting17:07
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Romsterhow ironic.17:28
Romsteri've tryed everything short of a reboot.17:28
Romster 10:28:54 up 22 days, 21:34,  1 user,  load average: 0.30, 0.68, 0.7017:28
rehabdollwhats wrong?17:29
Romsterno glx on the new nvidia binary driver.17:29
Romsteri've recompiled all of xorg to make sure i hadn't had linking issues.17:29
nipuL 15:30:52 up 288 days, 18:51,  1 user,  load average: 0.22, 0.12, 0.0417:30
Romsterheh this is my desktop though not a server.17:31
nipuLwell if it's a desktop, reboot the sucka17:31
Romsterguess i will and do a kernel upgrade.17:32
Romsterafter i see if a reboot fixes this glx.17:32
Romsteri would of thought a rmmod nvidia would of been enougth.17:32
nipuLwhat are your symptoms?17:33
Romster$ glxgears17:33
RomsterIllegal instruction17:33
nipuLwhat about glixinfo?17:33
nipuLbah, you know what i mean17:33
Romster$ glxinfo17:34
Romstername of display: :0.017:34
RomsterIllegal instruction17:34
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Romsterno errors in dmesg17:35
Romsternothing in /var/log/message17:35
Romsterand nothng in Xorg.log.*17:37
Romsteri shouldn't have to reboot to get a new video driver to work...17:38
andariusi upgrade my X server and glxinfo would crash on me. had to reinstall my x driver (nvidia) and restart the X server to square it up17:45
andariusthis was just a few days ago :(17:48
Romsterhmmz i'll restart my xorg soonish after i finish messing with updates.17:51
Romsterandarius, what version are you on? nvidia.17:56
Romsternvidia 169.09-117:56
andariusdue to the issues after i upgrade the X server i am now on 169.0917:56
Romsteryou had issues with the old nvidia driver?17:57
Romsterwith new xorg.17:57
andariusOpenGL version string: 2.1.2 NVIDIA 169.0917:57
andariusum, not that i recall17:57
Romsteri hadn't had any issues i jsut updated for the sake of being upto date.17:57
andariuswhen i upgrade the x server i had no apparent issues. i of course expected some to appear since the nvidia module is pretty picky17:58
Romsteryeah i have noticed it's very fussy.17:58
andariusso i test a few things (glxinfo and such) which had issues. the reinstall/upgrade squared me right up17:58
andariusit is because it builds based on system (kernel and X version)17:58
andariuschange one and it chokes :(17:59
Romsteri've rebuilt and gl-select xorg; gl-select nvidia17:59
andariusmm, i use the nvidia installer deal17:59
Romsterand rmmod nvidia17:59
Romsterthen started xorg again.17:59
Romsterdon't you use a Package?17:59
andariusnot for that18:00
andariusthere are some things i simply prefer the direct method ;)18:00
Romstereh i prefer to keep track of everything.18:01
Romsteronly thing i don't is the kernel.18:01
andariusi keep the kernel like things in the same boat as the kernel. done by me :)18:02
Romsterdo you happen to boot a few diferent kernels?18:03
andariuswhy would i?18:03
Romsterthen i don't see no reason not to use the package manager.18:03
Romsterbecause the pkgutils only allows the programt o be in one kernel tree not all.18:04
andariuseven when i did i dont use packages for them.18:04
* Romster shrugs18:04
andariusi dont see any reason to use packages for them18:04
Romsterair enough..18:04
Romstermy opinion differs <<18:05
andariusthat is the beauty of linux, you get to make it fit you ;)18:05
Romstervery true.18:05
Romsteri like the fact that linux can be customised to how you like.18:06
Romsteri used to try the same tatic with windows, but being quite limited.18:06
Romsteri did however goto the registery and hack that alot etc, i've probbably forgoten alot of that now.18:07
andariusthe fact you can make linux fit you is why i use it. if you dont like something change it. if their is no solution for you, make one ....18:07
Romsterdefault settings in windoze suck.18:07
Romsterlike tcp window size is 576 or something that's for dialup... and msot people on dsl and stuff, guess what still on 57618:08
Romsteri changed that to 1492 <<18:08
Romsterand other hidden settings.18:09
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Romsterlinux has saner defaults but i've edited some.18:09
Romstersysctl.conf <<18:09
predatorfreakRomster: Sysctl! The utility of the GODS!18:26
predatorfreakYes, I know I'm about 20 minutes late :P18:27
predatorfreakRomster: So, how's life in #crux?18:28
Romstergoing ok.18:29
Romsterother than concerned with as many dev's leaving crux slowly thining out.18:29
predatorfreakRomster: I figure I'll attend the meeting on the 30th.18:29
predatorfreakOffer to pick up some ports XD18:29
Romsteroh we have a meeting..18:30
predatorfreakYes, don't you read the mailing list? :P18:30
Romsteri haven't fired up my email client today yet.18:30
Romsterhacking away at some bash to revolunise how i make snapshots18:30
predatorfreakWell, I'll offer my spare time to maintain some of the things jaeger won't be anymore.18:31
predatorfreakSee how it goes XD18:31
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Romsterpredatorfreak, you should get in contrib.19:16
Romsterand stop being so lazy <<19:16
predatorfreakRomster: Too lazy to bother with contrib, nothing of value in my collection anyway.19:16
thrice`andarius: odd...shouldn't have had to w/ nvidia; did you gl-select properly?19:17
Romsterand if i did find something i'd of pinched it out of your colection <<19:17
predatorfreakRomster: See, nothing of value.19:17
Romsteror i didn't look hard enough.19:18
Romsterhmm debuging scripts is fun...19:18
andariusthrice`: never run gl-select19:19
thrice`bad andarius19:19
predatorfreakthrice`: There's why it ain't working.19:19
andariuswhat exactly is gl-select?19:20
thrice`nvidia / ati binary overwrite a couple of xorg files; gl-select, I believe, basically moves them away for updating things19:20
thrice`prt-get readme nvidia, perhaps?19:20
* Romster headdesks hard.19:21
thrice`sorry, no access to crux ATM, but i assume nvidia has one :-)19:21
andariusi did not use the package19:21
thrice`ah, ok19:21
Romstergl-select creates symlinks to point to what you say to point it to.19:21
andariuswhat are the origins of this utility?19:22
andariuslol, only works if you use the port :P19:22
* andarius says "bad thrice`" :P19:22
andariusas i did not use the port it is useless for me19:23
andariusconsidering nvidia builds with the current X version in mind i will just update/reinstall as needed. it is a wiser option in my eyes anyways19:23
thrice`yeah, just a little time saver, I suppose19:24
* andarius is not in a hurry ;)19:26
andariusfederal taxes are done so i feel better :)19:26
* thrice` is just lazy19:27
andariusX, my kernel and a few other things will never see my lazyness (which is pretty bad)19:27
Romsterthe fact xorg can run without a config file in most cases <<19:33
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nipuLRomster: i just upgraded to the 169.09 drivers, still no problems21:30
Romstereh i'll restart xorg when i feel like trying.21:30
Romsterdid you reboot?21:30
Romsteror jsut do rmmod nvidia21:30
Romsterand startx21:30
nipuLno reboot21:31
nipuLrmmod nvidia; depmod -a; modprobe nvidia; gl-select xorg; gl-select nvidia; startx; glxgears21:31
nipuLalthough i did lose about 900fps on glxgears21:31
Romsterah i didn't run depmod -a hrmmm...21:31
Romsternor modprobe it's loaded automaticly on xorg21:32
Romsternever did read what depmod -a did.21:32
Romsterhmm so worse performance...21:32
nipuLglxgears can be misleading21:33
Romsterah true, it's not a benchmarking tool so i've been informed.21:34
Romsterjsut a quick test to see if glx actually works.21:35
andariusit is really only good for gauging if you have accel. nothing more21:35
Romsteri have that on.21:44
Romsterhmm on another note seeing -I/usr/include/X11R6 should be renamed to X11 on all the packages too?21:53
RomsterX11R6 is even scatered in *.pc and *.la files when we don't even use that path.21:54
Romster-I/usr/X11R6/include sorry.. i typed it backwards.21:58
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SiFuh_la la la23:29
SiFuh_good afternoon@crux23:29
Romsterwaddup bro.23:33
Romsternot oftern i say that one.23:34
Romsterso don't think i'm someone else.23:34
treachwho would possibly mistake somone saying "oftern" for somone else than you? ;)23:44
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