IRC Logs for #crux Wednesday, 2008-02-06

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pitillogood morning01:13
SiFuhgood evening01:15
pitillo:)01:15
SiFuh(:01:16
SiFuh01:17
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sepenheyo02:19
SiFuhyo hey!02:29
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sepen_http://www.t-shirtsthatsuck.com/04:10
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treachhttp://maxiq.ovh.org/CRUX/porty/openoffice/Pkgfile <- crazy bastard..04:28
Rotwangtreach: <<04:28
treachyeah? Got a beowolf cluster to keep busy, or what? ;)04:29
Rotwang?? i was bored :[04:29
treachhow long did that take!?04:30
Rotwangweek04:30
Rotwangcompilation broke few times04:30
treachx_X04:31
Rotwangonce compiled with wrong option04:31
treachBonus for tenaciousness, though. ;D04:31
Rotwangand once i didnt apply some essential patch for writer, so i had to recompile04:32
Rotwangthanks :D04:32
treachbtw, you're missing libconfuse04:33
Rotwangok, thanks04:33
Rotwangand when i used build --all build function was looping :/04:36
Rotwangdonno why04:36
Rotwangi mean configure was looping04:36
treachbuilding ooo is black magic as it is. I doubt I'd bother even if I had a quad. :>04:37
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Romsteri thought some of my ports were madness... i was so wrong. man that's the bigist port ever.05:18
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jaegervery odd... still can't compile nvidia on the desktop here at work... works fine everywhere else08:33
Romsterstrange.08:34
Romsterstock kernel?08:34
jaegerpatched for squashfs, otherwise stock08:35
jaeger2.6.23.1408:35
Romstercan't see that being a problem.08:35
thrice`tried an older version than in ports?08:35
jaegerit's not the problem, same kernel and nvidia work great on 2 of my other machines08:35
jaegerif I build nvidia on one of them and copy the package over it also works fine08:35
jaegerjust can't build08:35
jaegerthrice`: yeah, something about this particular machine, same results with 2 older versions08:36
Romsterhmm08:36
pitillojaeger, do you have the error? to take a look over it?08:36
Romstersame gcc version glibc etc?08:36
jaegerof course08:37
Romsterseems odd.08:37
jaegerhttp://rafb.net/p/k5peZM63.html08:37
Romstersomething hardware detected wrongly maybe.08:37
jaegercould be. this is the only machine I have access to with a pentium D08:38
jaegerthe other 2 boxes are core 2 duo08:38
okiasjaeger: try Nouveau nvidia drivers ;-)08:39
thrice`jaeger: can you scp the package and pkgadd it?08:40
jaegerthrice`: yeah, I said above that works fine08:40
thrice`oh, sorry08:40
jaegerI just want to figure out why it won't build there :)08:40
jaegerokias: are those worth anything yet?08:40
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jaegernm, I see from their page they still aren't08:41
Romsterhmm missing autoconf.h ?08:43
jaegerme? no08:43
pitillojaeger, may be a shit Q, have you tried to download again the source?08:44
Romsterseems strange is there even a config guess fine or something you can compare to a good one?08:44
Romsterpitillo, jaeger would of seen a md5sum mismatch if it wasn't right.08:45
pitillohas no sense, I think it check the integrity08:45
pitilloRomster, yes, sorry08:45
Romsterbut that is a valid point.08:45
pitillothe installer checks its integrity, I think it´s a valid point to confuse, sorry08:46
jaegerpitillo: yeah, no problems with md5sum or the installer's check08:46
Romsterjaeger, CFLAGS and MAKEFLAGS differ?08:47
jaegernope08:47
Romsterdamn..08:47
jaegergonna try a different cpu type in the kernel config, see if it makes any difference08:48
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jaegerwhich doesn't change anything08:50
thrice`odd; not all nvidia are made equally? :-)08:50
predatorfreakjaeger: Looks to me like PCI might be fucked up.08:51
predatorfreakSince it's fucking up on a PCI function08:51
predatorfreakjaeger: Tried an old fashion cp .config config; make clean; make mrproper; mv config .config; make prepare?08:53
pitillojaeger, wich card?08:56
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jaegerpredatorfreak: more or less. I've tried multiple kernel versions from new tarballs09:02
jaegerpitillo: 8600gt09:02
predatorfreakjaeger: hmm.09:03
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predatorfreakMind providing me with the config?09:03
predatorfreakI've got the same card09:03
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pitillostrange, that card is well supported...09:03
jaegerit is, and like I said earlier, it works if I install the package built on the same kernel elsewhere09:04
jaegerI just can't actually *compile* it on that machine09:04
Romsteri'd try bypassing each sanity check one at a time09:04
jaegerpredatorfreak: http://rafb.net/p/kfeG0I88.html09:04
Romstermodule: cc-version-check xen-sanity-check rivafb-sanity-check nvidiafb-sanity-check09:04
jaegerdon't think it's related to sanity checks... the impression I get is that my hardware is being incorrectly detected09:05
Romsterk09:05
predatorfreakjaeger: The impression I'm getting is some kind of whacky header fuckup.09:06
Romsteryeah autoconf tools or something.09:06
Romsterpicking wrong hardware info maybe.09:06
predatorfreakRomster: Actually I mean kernel headers09:06
Romsterah09:06
predatorfreakautotools doesn't really factor into building a kernel module.09:06
predatorfreakFirst I've gotta patch 23.14 with squashfs though XD09:07
predatorfreakI don't keep many squashfs kernels around..09:07
Romstercheck out a fresh kernel source maybe that one is messed up. in /usr/src/linux-...09:07
Romsterah.09:07
predatorfreakRomster: doing cp .config config; make clean; make mrproper; mv config .config; make prepare is practically the same thing09:08
jaegersame results without the squashfs patch for what that's worth09:08
predatorfreakjaeger: Well, you can blame me, since I maintain nvidia in opt now :P09:09
Romsteri keep my configs in /boot/ for safe keeping with a few diferent kernel versions.09:09
Romsterheh09:09
jaegerpredatorfreak: it started before you :) with 100.14.19 or whatever that version was, at least09:09
jaegerand still only on this one machine09:09
predatorfreakjaeger: Aww, I can't even get proper blame!09:09
jaegerheh09:09
predatorfreakAh well, I'll have to work on breaking things09:09
Romsterjaeger, have you sent info off to nvidia devs?09:10
predatorfreakRomster: Ha.09:10
predatorfreakLike they'll do anything.09:10
Romsteri even got predatorfreak to try and break gpgme but predatorfreak failed at that <<09:10
predatorfreakRomster: Hehehe09:10
jaegernot yet, wanted to try to figure out the problem first... if I can't, may submit it anyway09:10
predatorfreakWhat can I say?09:10
Romsterwell if they get enough reports they might track the cause down.09:10
predatorfreakMy box magically fixes everything09:10
jaegerthey likely aren't getting any on this one... nvnews and google turn up jack shit on this with any version more recent than like 1.0-44xx09:11
Romsterya know when i got something that won't work i'll get predatorfreak to test then <<09:11
Romsters/got/get09:11
predatorfreakRomster: 20 bucks says it works anyway09:11
Romsterheh09:11
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predatorfreakjaeger: Have you tried just building the module outside of pkgmk?09:13
jaegeryeah, same result09:13
predatorfreakWelp, let's see if I can break it.09:16
jaegeras far me, will have to mess with it another time, got work to do now09:16
predatorfreakjaeger: Nope, can't break it :(09:17
predatorfreakWorks here using that config.09:17
jaegerno surprise to me09:17
predatorfreakjaeger: My suggestion: Beat it with a stick, then burn it with a flame thrower.09:18
predatorfreakjaeger: Other than that, I got nothing :)09:18
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jaegerheh09:18
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Romsteri bet jaeger could build it in qemu even.09:23
predatorfreakRomster: Hehe, maybe you should tell the guy who has magical gpgme breakage to try qemu? :P09:25
Romsterthat's an idea.09:25
Romsterhay that could be it..09:25
Romsterhardware issue for them.09:25
Romsterbut what though..09:26
predatorfreakRomster: Actually I meant that more as total isolation.09:28
predatorfreakClean CRUX install in qemu.09:28
predatorfreakTo see if it's their software :P09:28
pitillojaeger, can you try adding a symlink from your kernel source headers to /usr/src/linux ? (not used, but readed something at google related to arch and nvidia)09:30
jaegernot at the moment, rebooted that box to windows. also, you should never need to do that09:31
Romsteryeah that's bad practice.09:31
Romstershould be using the headers that glibc was compiled agenst.09:31
jaegeron a different subject, what's the preferred anti-spam chain these days? something out there better than the flakshak anti-spam wiki setup?09:31
predatorfreakjaeger: I'm old school, I just hit the delete button really fast.09:32
jaegerheh09:32
Romsterpredatorfreak, ya mean you don't beat it with a stick? <<09:33
predatorfreakRomster: My delete button is a stick.09:33
Romsterheh09:33
predatorfreakI have a wooden keyboard :P09:33
Romsterman my exaile wn't bloody play any songs now...09:34
pitilloyeah, that is a bad practice, but seems to fix some nvidia problems on arch. I thought can be good to try. Forget it if sounds really bad.09:34
Romsterand i tryed to recompile it hmmz.09:34
predatorfreakRomster: mmm mpd.09:34
Romsterworth a try but i'd say it's frowned upon.09:34
Romstereh i've tryed like 10 diferent players...09:34
predatorfreakpitillo: The Arch folks do a lot of backwards shit09:35
Romsteri can never find one i like09:35
predatorfreakRomster: MPD works for me.09:35
predatorfreakIt plays music, I can run it via runit.09:35
pitillopredatorfreak, I see09:35
predatorfreakand that's all that matters.09:35
predatorfreakpitillo: Someday, since I got unbanned from #archlinux, I'll have to go back in and be like "What the shit? Why don't you fix this idiotic bug that's been in this package since forever?"09:37
predatorfreakpitillo: 'course, I'd need to reinstall Arch.09:37
predatorfreakand I don't see that happening :P09:37
pitilloxD09:37
pitillopredatorfreak, and you will be banned fast again...09:38
predatorfreakpitillo: Yep.09:38
pitillo:)09:38
predatorfreakpitillo: But, I feel superior when I get banned like that.09:39
predatorfreakIt's their fault for being dolts and not fixing shit :)09:39
pitillonot much info to look for about this problem. I can´t help too much09:39
predatorfreakPlus, I tend to report problems that are blatantly obvious packager fuckups09:39
predatorfreakand other things I work out myself :P09:39
pitillopredatorfreak, ummm then they lose more banning you09:39
predatorfreakpitillo: I stopped using Arch, so they lost me entirely.09:40
predatorfreakI had a solid amount of decent work sitting around to fix some stupid problems with Arch packages.09:40
pitillothat is why I said they are losing more09:40
sepenpredatorfreak, please can you take a look of my lastest log reports for repo collections? http://mikeux.dyndns.org/crux/logs/09:40
thrice`i didn't like arch.  they tended to push updates, and fix problems with them much later09:40
predatorfreakBut even simple freaking bug reports I did sat forever.09:41
sepenpredatorfreak, Redundant deps for grub are: ncurse09:41
sepenRedundant deps for firefox are: libjpeg libpng zlib09:41
sepenetc etc09:41
predatorfreaksepen: redundent deps aren't a big deal09:41
predatorfreakredundant*09:41
sepen8(09:41
predatorfreakand right now, I believe the policy is: If it's required to build this app, list it.09:41
predatorfreak:)09:42
sepenpffff09:42
pitilloummm core dependencies too?09:42
predatorfreakpitillo: No.09:42
sepenRedundant deps for hal are: dbus09:43
predatorfreakpitillo: well, maybe, I dunno.09:43
sepenxDDDDD09:43
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sepenpredatorfreak, ERROR  opt/rar .................. file conflict found: opt/unrar -> usr/bin/unrar09:43
sepenaren't a deal too?09:43
predatorfreaksepen: Blame jaeger for that one :P09:43
sepenpredatorfreak, you are the maintainer09:43
predatorfreakand rar isn't supposed to be used with unrar.09:44
sepenan this moment I notified you09:44
predatorfreakThey're mutually exclusive.09:44
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sepenIm only checking opt repository with some tools provided by the system team09:44
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predatorfreaksepen: Deleting unrar from rar isn't a big deal, plus it would mean that rar would have to depend on unrar to have an unraring prog :)09:45
sepenyeah09:45
predatorfreaksepen: I'd say tetex and xemacs need a mass README purge with find.09:45
sepen+109:46
predatorfreakp5-xml-blah needs a purge of junk too.09:46
predatorfreakxpdf needs the patch to make it use poppler XD09:47
sepenwell, there are a lot of ports that need to be reviewed, thats all09:47
predatorfreaksepen: I'd say redundant deps are the least of the concerns for opt :P09:47
sepenIm according to09:48
sepenpredatorfreak, are you disagree with my report¿?09:48
Romsterredudent deps are only a warning not a fatial error, but nice to fix.09:48
predatorfreaksepen: I think the junk files need a purge.09:48
predatorfreaksepen: and that xpdf needs to have the poppler patch applied :P09:49
predatorfreakor at least the conflicting binaries removed09:49
predatorfreakBut I suppose I can quickly clean the redundant deps09:49
sepenhmmm09:50
sepenRomster, I like the WARN idea09:51
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predatorfreaksepen: I suppose I could mod rar to remove /usr/bin/unrar and depend on unrar too.09:52
sepenwell, I use my crontab for daily reports, please tell me if someone is interesting09:52
predatorfreakSince unrar is preferred.09:52
sepenpredatorfreak, don't worry about that09:52
sepenpredatorfreak, I wouldn't bind you to doing now09:53
predatorfreaksepen: I've got nothing better to do than clean up the ports I'm supposed to maintain :P09:54
sepenxDD too fast guy09:55
predatorfreaksepen: Hehe09:55
sepenmany thanks predatorfreak10:00
predatorfreaksepen: No problem, cleanliness is good :P10:00
sepenhehe10:00
sepenso, do you like my report?10:00
predatorfreaksepen: Sure.10:01
predatorfreaksepen: Now tell everyone else to clean up their ports :)10:01
sepenimo we should recive something similar in ML's10:01
sepenpredatorfreak, xDDD10:01
sepens/recive/receive10:01
predatorfreaksepen: Propose it on the ml then :)10:02
Romsteri should look over my ports again but i don't think i got many warnings10:06
predatorfreakhttp://mikeux.dyndns.org/crux/logs/repoverify-romster.log10:06
predatorfreakHehehehehe10:06
predatorfreaksepen: What script are you using to do that? :)10:07
sepenhmm10:09
sepenmy own script, repoverify10:09
predatorfreaksepen: Gimme! :D10:09
predatorfreakI wanna see how F'd up my personal repo is.10:09
sepenin my repository it appears inside crux-scripts-sepen port10:09
sepenor try directly from here http://mikeux.dyndns.org:8000/crux/browser/trunk/tools/repoverify10:10
sepensurely you should need some extra adjusts if your private repo has some different repodeps10:11
sepensee lines 13 to 20 as examples of repodeps10:11
predatorfreakError: predatorfreak is not a directory o.O10:12
predatorfreaksepen: Everything in either my repo, core or contrib10:12
predatorfreakor opt XD10:12
sepenhmmm what are you doing?10:12
sepenyour repo must be listed in prt-get.conf file10:13
predatorfreaksepen: repoverify predatorfreak10:13
predatorfreakOh it is10:13
predatorfreakIt runs10:13
sepenhmmmmm no idea whats happened10:13
predatorfreakit just prints that a lot10:13
sepenahhh yeah10:13
sepenps aux to checkit10:13
sepenthat line should get all your ports     ports=$(find $prtdir -maxdepth 2 -name 'Pkgfile' -exec dirname {} \;)10:14
Romsterhmm my private repo is messy as hell...10:14
sepenajaj10:14
sepenmy private repo now sucks10:14
sepenxD10:14
Romsterall my good stuff is in contrib <<10:15
predatorfreakWow, for once fortune said something relevant to the current political landscape...10:15
Romsterbut i'll get to clean my private repo that's jsut messy atm.10:15
namenloshttp://www.xkcd.org/378/10:49
Rotwangwe saw it :D10:49
namenlos:D i never managed to use emacs (it seems to komplicated to me ...)10:51
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predatorfreaknamenlos: EMACS is an okay OS, just a crappy editor.10:52
namenlostrue. with emacs you can do nearly everything with it...10:53
namenlosperhaps one day you can boot it10:53
predatorfreakRomster: I found your problem <_<10:55
predatorfreakRomster: Latest gcrypt and/or libgpg error busts gpg2.10:56
predatorfreakBut not gpg1.10:56
predatorfreakWho's in charge of libgpg-error/gcrypt? :P10:57
Romsterlol, lovely.11:00
Romsterand i looked at cruxbot spit that update out and i so had a feeling i bet they break it.11:01
predatorfreakIt's libgcrypt...11:01
tilmangrep Maintainer /usr/ports/opt/libgcrypt/Pkgfile11:02
predatorfreakYeah I already know who to bitch at :)11:02
tilmanhe's viper_ on irc, but he's not on that often11:02
tilmanprobably best to shoot him an emial11:02
tilmanemail*11:02
predatorfreak"Mr. Gloßner, please stop breaking gpg, srsly, cut it out!"11:03
sepen@seen _Viper11:03
clbsepen: I have not seen _Viper.11:03
sepensurely in devel channels11:03
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Romsteri was talking to viper_ a couple of days ago in #crux_devel11:06
predatorfreakWelp e-mail0r'd.11:06
predatorfreakNow he's just gotta fix it XD11:07
Romsterupdating anything gpg related is like trying to difuse a bomb11:07
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predatorfreakhttps://bugs.g10code.com/gnupg/issue87411:08
predatorfreakDamn it they just closed that... that's a repeatable bug <_<11:09
RomsterStatus  resolved11:11
Romster?11:11
predatorfreakRomster: err.11:11
Romsterhmm maybe i'll see if it breaks for me?11:11
predatorfreakAccording to Gentoo.11:12
predatorfreak--disable-padlock-support needs to be added11:12
predatorfreakor GPG busts11:12
predatorfreaktrying to use hardware features that don't exist11:12
Romsterah11:12
Romsteris that for gpgme or gnupg11:12
predatorfreakgnupg.11:12
predatorfreakBut gpgme test failures are a result of gpg2 crashing11:13
predatorfreakand burning11:13
predatorfreakSo, they're linked.11:13
Romsterah but not my fault, so viper has to revert.11:13
predatorfreakGuess I'll e-mail viper.11:13
predatorfreakagain..11:13
Romsteror that --disable-padlock-support might fix it..?11:13
predatorfreakRomster: I'll tell viper to add --disable-padlock-support to libgcrypt as a temp workaround11:13
Romsterbetter test first.11:14
predatorfreakThere's a legitimate bug in gpg with libgcrypt 1.4 and padlock support11:14
predatorfreakBut according to the Gentoo bugzilla11:14
predatorfreakdisabling it is a proper workaround for now11:14
predatorfreakRomster: Just did :)11:14
predatorfreakIt works11:14
Romsterk11:14
Romsterso it's trying to use hardware that dosn't exist when it should fall back to software.11:17
predatorfreakYeah.11:17
predatorfreakor something like that.11:17
predatorfreakNot quite sure what, but there's a legitimate bug under the hood.11:18
Romsteryeah some hardware detection bug i bet <<11:18
Romsteris this find bugs day...11:18
predatorfreakRomster: Must be.11:19
predatorfreakRomster: We even found one my box can't magically fix :P11:19
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Romsterheh11:22
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tilmananyone around who can read russian?11:30
boe/4/11:31
tilman?11:31
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teKtilman: /4 == change to window 411:32
teKhappens to me all the time, too11:32
tilmanoh11:33
thrice`huh?11:33
predatorfreaktilman: Nope, I've got a friend who can though11:33
teKin irssi11:33
thrice`Irssi: Unknown command: 211:33
* tilman uses alt-4 etc11:33
predatorfreakHe won't be online for another 2ish hours though11:33
teK18:33 2          window 211:33
teKetc.11:33
thrice`odd =|11:33
teKas alt + Number does not work all over the place :)11:33
namenlos/4/11:35
namenlosteK: yes, e.g. alt+number are used in dwm to switch tags :(11:36
teK±²³11:36
teKthat's ALT + {1..3} for me11:36
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tilman"Basically HIEW (Hacker`s view) is a hex viewer [...]"11:48
tilman"Im Allgemeinen ist HIEW ein Hexagonprojektor [...]"11:48
tilmanhexagonprojektor, aha11:48
teK:p11:49
teK'oh the bell rings' - 'oh, der hund ringt'11:49
tilman;p11:49
teKOto Walkes this insance clown :>11:51
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* tilman is installing windows xp in qemu11:56
tilman:o11:56
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Man0l0hi11:58
predatorfreakHahahahaha12:00
predatorfreak3D Realms expect us to believe Duke Nukem Forever will be released this year...12:00
predatorfreakI'll believe it when I see it12:00
RomsterO_o12:03
Romsteri got the ms-dos version of that12:03
predatorfreakRomster: If they ever actually release that game.12:05
predatorfreakRomster: It will have officially arrived before Guns 'N' Roses Chinese Democracy :P12:05
Romsterlol.12:06
Romsteri thought that bad split up <<12:06
Romsterband*12:06
Romsterwhy i can only remember slash and axel and none of the other dudes names.12:06
predatorfreakRomster: Nah.12:07
predatorfreakAxel is still trying to call it Guns 'N' Roses.12:07
predatorfreakAlthough.12:07
Romsteroh.12:07
predatorfreakIt's more "Axel Rose solo with these other guys"12:07
tilmanRomster: duff and izzy are rememberable, not sure about their drummers (steven and matt) :P12:08
Romsterah12:09
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tilmanSetup is starting Windows12:11
tilmanmmmmh it just sits there12:11
predatorfreaktilman: Welcome to Windows!12:12
tilman;)12:12
Romsterlol12:16
Romsterit'll take a good hour or so *runs*12:16
tilmanaha. i had to disable kqemu *completely*12:17
RomsterO_o12:22
Romsterwhat the..12:22
Romsterkqemu is ment to speed up not slow down..12:22
tilmankqemu is known to cause problems with the windows installation12:23
Romsterah.12:23
Romsteri still had't found the win98se 100%cpu fix yet either.. i haven't look alot though.12:24
tilmanhttp://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/qemu/qemu-doc.html#SEC5112:27
Romsterbeen there "Not Found"12:34
Romsterah found it12:38
Romsteri should of looked harder http://toogam.com/software/archive/drivers/cpu/cpuidle/cpuidle.htm12:38
tilmanHAVE12:39
Romsterlol have then.12:39
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tilmanSaving settings13:08
tilmanwho knew saving the motherfucking settings could take ages13:09
treachanyone even remotely familiar with windows? :>13:11
treach(yeah, it's insane.)13:11
tilmanit finished \o13:12
tilmanso "soon" i can enable kqemu and it will fly13:12
tilmanPlease wait...13:13
treachtilman: why not give kvm a shot?13:13
thrice`because it needs gcc3413:15
thrice`reason enough =)13:15
Romsterand that is in contrib13:15
Romsterhttp://romster.shortcircuit.net.au/tmp/kvm%2359-1.pkg.tar.gz13:16
treachmmh? kvm needs gcc 3.4? I thought it was qemu that did.13:16
Romsterboth13:16
tilmani actually have gcc3413:17
tilmantreach: mostly lazyness i guess ;o13:17
Romsterah13:17
treachheh13:17
predatorfreakWhy can't they just fix the qemu code to work with 4.X? o.O13:18
tilmanbecause it's not that easy, duh13:18
predatorfreaktilman: I say write a new dang thing using the KVM shit the kernel provides and move on so stuff doesn't need gcc 3.4 anymore on a modern distro.13:19
predatorfreakor fix qemu <_<13:20
tilmanisn't qemu used for kvm anyway13:20
tilmanalso: wtf blabla13:20
tilmankvm is only available on ziomg-modern cpus13:20
tilmanso qemu is perfectly fine13:20
thrice`qemu works well for me, actually :-)13:21
tilmanalso it's great to be able to run a sparc system :P13:21
predatorfreaktilman: KVM's userspace shit is based off qemu.13:21
tilmanyes13:21
predatorfreakFix qemu, fix the qemu parts of KVM's userspace utils13:21
tilmangood13:21
tilmango ahead and fix qemu for gcc413:21
predatorfreaktilman: Too lazy :P13:22
tilmanand probably not competent enough? :P13:23
tilmanapparently even the codesourcery guy (brook?) cannot do it13:23
tilmanor at least he couldn't convince bellard to merge his earlier gcc4 patches13:23
predatorfreaktilman: I'm not a C coder by nature, let alone one who knows shit about virtualisation :)13:24
treachtilman: I'm sure qemu is good enough, I only suggested kvm since I know you can pull that one off. :)13:25
tilmansure, my ranting wasn't targeted at kvm13:26
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tilmandid the core/opt separation exist in the per-days?13:58
treachyeah14:00
treachcore wasn't called core, but the divide existed.14:00
tilmanwas it called "base"?14:01
treachmight have been. basically there was "base" and opt which was per's domain, and then there was contrib, which was everyone else14:01
tilmanyeah14:02
treachthis is why I'm questioning the opt/contrib separation in its current form.14:02
treachbecause there doesn't really seem to be any rule what decides who and what goes into opt and who doesn't.14:03
treach*but* there seem to be some rather inconvinient rule that contrib stuff doesn't go on the iso. :/14:03
* sepen ..14:03
predatorfreaktreach: People who get approved go into opt and packages that go in opt tend to be very minimal, it's not every-program-and-your-brother.14:04
predatorfreaktreach: As far as I see it at least.14:04
treachpredatorfreak: wrong.14:04
predatorfreaktreach: How so?14:04
treachlook at the stuff in opt.14:04
thrice`there is a ton of stuff not in opt14:04
thrice`keeping a small base is ideal, imo14:05
predatorfreaktreach: It's kept mostly to useful things.14:05
treachfarvourite in replay, amule is in opt.14:05
treachwhile lvm2 is in contrib14:05
predatorfreakYeah, amule could move to contrib.14:05
predatorfreakand lvm2 could be moved to core, tbh.14:05
treachI'm sure there are other examples14:05
thrice`why core?14:05
Man0l0or to a new repo called xstuff14:05
predatorfreakthrice`: I've seen people who won't boot a system without lvm2.14:06
thrice`really?  weird14:06
sepenirc meetingggggggggggggggggg14:06
thrice`heh14:06
thrice`I like the current iso, personally.  gets a X, window manager, etc. out of the box on a tiny iso :-)14:06
predatorfreakthrice`: Mostly bigger iron server people who are too cheap to get a proper hardware RAID controller.14:07
predatorfreakand want a cheap alternative in software.14:07
predatorfreak(LVM comes in handy there)14:07
sepeniron servers don't need x related stuff in opt14:07
treachlet's not get stuck too much in the details.14:08
Man0l0iron server almost never need xcrap14:08
predatorfreaksepen: Yeah, but I'm saying lvm2 has a lot more uses than just being in opt.14:08
treachthe point is that currently there doesn't really seem to be any rules about who/how and why stuff go where they go.14:08
sepencore should be as generic as possible imo14:09
sepenand then use opt as another system devel collection for that kind of ports14:09
treachsepen: I think this would be good thing to discuss on next meeting.14:09
predatorfreaktreach: Well, you guys debate it out, I'm gonna go watch a film about Miyamoto Musashi :P14:09
sepenand the rest stuff to another repo14:09
Man0l0treach, opt is a big big bag14:09
sepentreach, sure14:09
treachthis little micro discussion is rather pointless14:09
Man0l0whitout any rules about how to manage it14:10
treachMan0l0: well there used to be.14:10
treachthe rule being "per's stuff"14:10
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sepen+114:10
Man0l0you are rigth, per's stuff and other mainteners crap not included in core, so it think is the moment to evolve the port hierarchy to something more usefull14:12
tilmani don't see the problem with opt containing graphical ports14:12
treachtilman: that's not the problem14:12
Man0l0tilman, it not only about graphical ports14:13
sepentilman, was only my imho as user14:13
treachfirefox is graphical, I haven't seen any objections to that14:13
tilmanyou keep raving about "xopt"14:13
tilmanwhich i guess means opt-ports-that-require-x1114:13
pitilloyes14:13
sepenyeah tilman what is another and personal question14:13
pitillowhat do you see simplier? distributed ports on that kind of repos or add all them to opt?14:14
thrice`then maybe we can go net-im/, net-www/, net-hax/,14:14
sepenor in another words more levels of system and contrib collections14:14
thrice`and use USE flags zomg14:14
Man0l0imho we need to re-think how we could organize port more logicaly14:14
rehabdolldont forget about dependencies spanning multiple repos.. fragmenting core/opt would be _painful_14:14
treachthrice`: cptn planned to implement that via metadata14:14
sepenand how many collections are maintained by system devels14:15
treachnet-www etc, not useflags. :p14:15
sepenimho core/opt14:15
pitillothrice`, you see distributed ports something bad?14:15
sepenand xorg too14:15
sepenxD14:15
tilmancore and xorg are maintained by "system devels"14:15
tilmanwith xorg it's a coincidence14:15
tilman;p14:15
treachguys, PLEASE try not to get hung up on specifics.14:15
pitilloxD14:15
thrice`I like the approach currently; core for required stuff, opt for useful to most everyone (though yes, some stragglers are let in), contrib for other stuff people might want to contribute that not enough man-power exists to stick in opt14:16
tilmani find the discussion a bit annoying tbh14:16
pitillothrice`, nice to know that14:16
sepenhmm14:17
pitillotilman, all discussions are good while were between polite people. I think see others point of view can be a good point.14:17
rehabdolli find it pointless :)14:17
treachtilman: I'm not sure what the others are arguing, my point is that the separation is somewhat arbitrary, and unecessarily restricting.14:17
tilmantreach: yeah, i got your point14:17
tilmanbut i'm not sure tthat the others are talkinga bout the same problem14:17
treachgood. I'll shut up now then. :)14:17
thrice`haha, probably not14:17
thrice`anyways, weather bad, so i'm skipping out at work :-)14:18
thrice`12" on the forecast for the next 3 hours :-|14:18
tilmanpitillo: i don't really understand what you dislike about the current situation14:18
pitillotilman, I think distribution can be good. I am fine with the current situation but I want to know what do you think about that14:19
pitillogood distribution and well organized14:19
tilmanpitillo: think about what? :o14:19
Man0l0I apologize for being damned annoying14:20
pitillotilman, distributing ports in more repos, spanning opt and putting xrelated stuff to another repo14:20
sepenKISS14:20
pitilloI see distribution simplier than group add ports in 1 repo. Thas is why I asked about other people opinion.14:21
pitillos/add/all14:21
tilmanMan0l0: i mostly find it annoying because i don't really understand the problem14:21
pitilloI saw thrice and treac_h point and yours of course.14:22
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pitilloand rehabdol too, missed him. Learning bit by bit14:22
sepentilman, are you using only crux on desktop boxes? I think is the best distro platform for doing server appliances, for work etc etc14:22
tilmani'm using crux on a server, too14:23
tilmanso far it hasn't bothered me that it allowed me to install x if i wanted =)14:23
sepenthen I need another idea of collections (imho)14:23
sepenonly for my needs14:23
ryuoRomster?14:24
ryuowhy are the python bindings needed for some of the rox ports not in the collections you posted?14:24
sepentilman, but this does not mean that Im disagree with crux14:24
sepenonly I want to say that expanding collections in other could be good14:25
ryuo9 days until the cloudbook is released here ;)14:25
sepen*others14:25
Man0l0tilman, really it is not a "PROBLEM", but it will be more usefull to have a well organized collections of port following clear criterions14:26
sepenmore collections and collections with ports well relationated14:27
sepensurely something similar to  # Collection: meta or # Group as now appears14:27
Man0l0sepen, I think that create to much collections is not a good idea14:28
pitilloonly getting xapps from opt and making a well maintained xrelated before contrib can be good14:29
sepenwell thats fine for me14:30
Man0l0imho we need to think about it carefully14:31
tilmani can agree with that at least :P14:31
Man0l0and try to find out how we could organize our collections14:31
pitillothat is the point tilman14:31
sepenthe port collections is growing up more and more14:32
sepensurely thats the moment to start of planning something for the future14:32
Man0l0into a more logical hierarchy if needed14:32
pitillothink about it carefully14:32
sepencarefeully +114:32
sepenheh14:33
sepenwell time to dinnerrrr14:33
Man0l0time to continue working :(14:33
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andariusgreetings and salutations16:48
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thrice`hi andarius17:28
andariusgreetings thrice`17:29
thrice`tilman: have a menu.xml I can steal?17:31
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andariusthrice`: i take it perdy menus you are wanting17:38
thrice`complete menus.  openbox generation is minimal :-)17:38
andariusroger17:38
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nipuLcrap, my vps pings but no services are responding20:24
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andariusnight all, i am out22:33
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efleming969anyone know how to set the system to use UTC instead of local time?22:44
jaegershould be pretty simple... change your timezone to UTC in /etc/rc.conf, reboot or recreate the symlink, update your clock with ntpd or rdate or something similar, and maybe run hwclock --systohc --utc22:49
jaegerer, I misread22:51
jaegeryou probably don't want UTC as your timezone22:51
jaegerjust the clock to use UTC?22:51
jaegerif that's the case, ignore the bit about rc.conf, just use the hwclock part22:51
efleming969when i set my system to UTC time (in bios), crux sets my system time to that22:58
efleming969but i want it to adjust to my set time zone22:59
jaegerI'm not familiar with the bios option for it, sorry22:59
efleming969ther is a file /etc/adjtime, but don't know what that is22:59
jaegerread the hwclock manpage, I think it has some info about adjtime22:59
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efleming969i think that's the what i need, thanks i did not read far enough in23:05
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jaegernp23:08
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rehabdollnipuL: awesome host :)23:45
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