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| pitillo | good morning | 01:02 |
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| pitillo | Romster, I made a step ahead about port develop enviroment. I like the idea of safe-build script but I was thinking in using a VM instead of a chroot. | 01:06 |
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| Romster | pitillo, whice VM do you prefer to use? | 01:26 |
| Romster | i have qemu here i've not tryed virtualbox and i don't have vmware. | 01:26 |
| pitillo | I have only tried qemu once in windows to run puppy, here I always use virtualbox. About vmware I never used it. | 01:30 |
| pitillo | I am trying to make a little script to keep a base system clean. The idea born from cptn's dep-remove script. Now I am trying to do an idea told by cptn. | 01:31 |
| Romster | i see. | 01:32 |
| Romster | any reason to prefer a VM over a chroot? | 01:32 |
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| pitillo | well, my first thought was using a develop machine to keep it always clean and with an updated base (core). I prefer to don't mix my system with a chroot and test my ports under this base. (with chroot can be done too, but with good computers I prefer to use a clean and minimal VM to do this) | 01:34 |
| pitillo | I think this is another way to go, another choice | 01:35 |
| pitillo | personally I feel more confortable under a fresh install over a chroot enviroment | 01:35 |
| pitillo | I was asking my self how maintainers build/package/test ports | 01:36 |
| pitillo | and I only saw 3 ways to go: 1 VM with a fresh install, 2 chroot, 3 dedicated computer | 01:37 |
| Romster | a chroot is a fresh install. | 01:37 |
| pitillo | yeah, it can be more that a fresh install too | 01:37 |
| Romster | how i was doing it and safe-build has a backup and restore of ports. | 01:37 |
| Romster | it didn't rely on anything of the existing system. | 01:37 |
| pitillo | looking to your script you give choices to the user to use or don't their ports | 01:37 |
| Romster | think of chroot for VM | 01:37 |
| pitillo | yes, that was what sepen told me yesterday | 01:38 |
| Romster | yeah i did that for a reason. | 01:38 |
| Romster | VM just adds more abstraction i don't think is needed in this case. | 01:38 |
| Romster | not like we are cross compiling for another machine type. | 01:39 |
| pitillo | that's tru | 01:39 |
| pitillo | *true | 01:39 |
| Romster | a VM might be a bit more secure too. | 01:39 |
| Romster | but building ports is pretty safe IMO. | 01:40 |
| pitillo | I think in a VM you are sure that you will not go out of it , btwthe little script I am doing can be used in a chroot enviroment too, | 01:40 |
| Romster | i need to incorperate fakeroot into dafe-build too. | 01:40 |
| Romster | safe-build* | 01:40 |
| pitillo | yeah, in a chroot enviroment there is no problem "a priori" to go out of it, but really I feel more confortable under a VM enviroment | 01:41 |
| Romster | that script can be sued anywhere really. | 01:41 |
| Romster | hmmz | 01:41 |
| Romster | should i make a option to use a chroot or VM? | 01:41 |
| pitillo | (if I had another computer I would use it to develop there, this is the best choice IMO) | 01:41 |
| Romster | a chroot does what i want though. | 01:42 |
| pitillo | ummm I think you are "making a little VM" with your script, I this it isn't needed IMO | 01:42 |
| Romster | think of it as chroot jails there is a kernel side way of doing that to run as many virtual machines on the one system too. | 01:44 |
| Romster | i've jsut done it as user side. | 01:44 |
| Romster | i haven't tryed virtual box, wonder if it is any better than qemu. | 01:45 |
| pitillo | yes, and I think it's a good job, growing bit by bit. | 01:45 |
| pitillo | I tell you this because I know you were working on this kind of idea and I think sharing opinions about them, can be a good way to learn (for me) | 01:46 |
| Romster | it is. | 01:46 |
| pitillo | well, for me it's very easy to use, graphical interface and good support (I only had problems trying to virtualize *bsd) | 01:47 |
| pitillo | btw, I want to know how people (and more core devs) how do their job, to make minimal and clean ports | 01:48 |
| Romster | i actually think they use a VM or they don't at all. | 01:48 |
| pitillo | I am not sure about | 01:48 |
| pitillo | for me seems that there isn't a standard way to test ports under a fresh and minimal crux install, that is why I want to know about | 01:49 |
| Romster | there isn't any procedure. | 02:09 |
| Romster | as far as i know but i plan to move all my port building to a chroot or maybe a VM if i see a need too. | 02:09 |
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| DarkNekros | hi everybody ;) | 02:12 |
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| Romster | hi DarkNekros | 02:14 |
| pitillo | Romster, that is my point, I think packaging in a clean and minimal enviroment is the way to go to build good ports (we have good tools provided by prt-utils and system to make sure about this), but that is only my opinion (I am not a developer and I haven't too much knowledge) | 02:14 |
| pitillo | lo DarkNekros | 02:14 |
| Romster | well i'd like to build ports confinded to core and depends on line. | 02:19 |
| Romster | anything aditional would use the warn on new files footprint missmatch if it gets accepted. | 02:20 |
| Romster | so all ports would be minimal dependencys but would use other ports if present at build time. | 02:20 |
| Romster | so a port should never have a missing file ever in it's footprint only new files if there is aditional ports installed. | 02:21 |
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| pitillo | Romster, I am looking for that too. | 02:51 |
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| pitillo | Romster, I don't know if you can see this usefull, if you can, take a look to it and I hope you can give me a opinion or comments http://lokalix.dyndns.org/crux/files/clean-system | 03:54 |
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| cruxbot | contrib.git: lm_sensors: updated to 3.0.1 | 04:04 |
| cruxbot | contrib.git: i2c-tools: initial import | 04:04 |
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| cruxbot | contrib.git: net-snmp: updated to 5.4.1-2 (added patch for lm_sensors v3, removed sendmail MIB) | 04:29 |
| mike_k | cruxbot: nice boy | 04:33 |
| treach | cruxbot++ | 04:34 |
| treach | :p | 04:34 |
| sepen | mike_k, nice! lm_sensors | 04:34 |
| cruxbot | contrib.git: jnettop: Added missing dependency 'glib'. Thanks pitillo. | 04:43 |
| sepen | pitillo, xD | 04:43 |
| pitillo | xD | 04:43 |
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| cruxbot | core.git: xfsprogs: update to 2.9.6 | 06:46 |
| RedShift | supermicro++ | 06:47 |
| RedShift | awesome brand | 06:47 |
| RedShift | I should work at that company | 06:47 |
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| treach | or they should pay you for your constant advertising. | 06:48 |
| cruxbot | opt.git: vsftpd: update to 2.0.6 | 06:49 |
| RedShift | treach: yes, they should | 06:49 |
| RedShift | but I mean come on, their hardware is great, the BIOSes are perfect, support is great | 06:49 |
| RedShift | "the best a man can get" | 06:49 |
| treach | you got that wrong I think. :> | 06:50 |
| RedShift | that's why I quoted it | 06:50 |
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| Romster | cat RedShift > /dev/null :P | 07:33 |
| Romster | RedShift, is it me or do you advertise alot.. | 07:33 |
| RedShift | I do? | 07:34 |
| Romster | it's either some great web hosting server or something. | 07:36 |
| Romster | and you don't even use crux. *shrugs* | 07:37 |
| cruxbot | core.git: findutils: updated to 4.2.33. | 07:37 |
| Romster | hmm more updates i thnk i'll hold off untill later to update.. | 07:37 |
| tri | moin | 07:38 |
| Romster | hi tri | 07:40 |
| tilman | Romster: was that a guess, or do you know some german? :] | 07:43 |
| Romster | a guess. | 07:44 |
| tri | :-) | 07:44 |
| Romster | moin looks close enough to morning. | 07:45 |
| Romster | and 'good morning' is common, so it's a greeting. | 07:46 |
| Romster | i only know a few words of german. | 07:46 |
| treach | Lingustic RE. :p | 07:46 |
| Romster | mainly from listening to german metal bands. | 07:46 |
| treach | Linguistic* dammit.. | 07:47 |
| Romster | lol. | 07:47 |
| treach | I've put my glasses somewhere. :/ | 07:47 |
| Romster | treach, for someone that isn't a native english speaker, you sure are picky on spelling. | 07:47 |
| Romster | treach, ah that's not good. | 07:48 |
| treach | Romster: I'm a germanic person. We're all pedantic, militaristic, stiff bastards ;) | 07:48 |
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| Romster | ah. | 07:50 |
| Rotwang | ;] | 07:51 |
| tri | yes, thats true :-) | 07:55 |
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| tilman | Romster: what bands? rammstein? | 07:59 |
| Romster | tilman, yeah rammstein and a few others that i've recently found out there german. | 08:00 |
| Romster | i don't know of many and i'd like to find more. i barely understand the lyrics of the songs but there cool music. | 08:00 |
| Rotwang | tokio hotel! | 08:01 |
| sepen | tilman, waken openair fest? | 08:01 |
| tilman | what about it? :p | 08:02 |
| Romster | Iron Savior is german too. | 08:02 |
| sepen | tilman, nope this year I want to goç | 08:02 |
| sepen | *go | 08:02 |
| Romster | and so is 666 but that's dance/techno | 08:02 |
| sepen | nice copyleft site too http://www.electrobel.be | 08:03 |
| sepen | and many downloads | 08:03 |
| tilman | Romster: bah, power metal ;D | 08:04 |
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| Romster | tilman, yes << | 08:07 |
| Romster | power, speed, thrash, christen metal i'm really into. | 08:08 |
| Romster | probbably other styles too many to think of. | 08:08 |
| * treach puts on Violin concerto in D major by Johannes Brahms | 08:11 | |
| Romster | heh | 08:12 |
| Romster | actually i like some clasical too. | 08:12 |
| tilman | sleepwalk - hackerstate (dos-attack remix by sitd) | 08:12 |
| Romster | rofl. | 08:13 |
| tilman | w/ a ._o quote from 'hackers' ._o | 08:13 |
| Romster | i've oftern wondered what happend to *.com files being like *.exe's | 08:14 |
| tilman | they aren't, they never were | 08:14 |
| Romster | command.com | 08:14 |
| tilman | command.com isn't a com, it's an exe | 08:14 |
| Romster | hmm | 08:14 |
| Romster | i'll yank out my dos disks one day.. | 08:15 |
| tilman | PE assumably | 08:15 |
| tilman | presumably | 08:15 |
| Romster | i'm sure it's .com | 08:15 |
| treach | comfiles are only similar to exe files in that they are executeable | 08:15 |
| Romster | yes | 08:15 |
| Romster | i'm guessing .com is some type of old 286/386 memory mode runing or something. | 08:16 |
| treach | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COM_files | 08:16 |
| Romster | a older format that got phased out. | 08:16 |
| tilman | com: exactly one segment, so <= 64 kb of code | 08:16 |
| tilman | you just execute it (jmp teh_code). i think | 08:17 |
| treach | "it contains no metadata, only code and data, and is loaded at offset 0x0100 of some segment and executed. Because of how the segmentation model works, there is no need for relocation. " | 08:17 |
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| Romster | ah right and lol at the fact windows will prefer a com file over a exe | 08:21 |
| Romster | wonder if vista still does too. | 08:22 |
| tilman | i think i've read that vista doesn't support COM files anymore | 08:22 |
| treach | is that possible? | 08:22 |
| tilman | blogs.msdn.com/oldnewthing had an article on com/exe crap | 08:22 |
| Romster | i'm gonan have to test that on my brother vista box one day. | 08:22 |
| Romster | gonna* | 08:23 |
| Romster | only thing is all my .com files eb too old.. | 08:23 |
| tilman | explaining why 'mv crap.whatever crap.exe && crap.exe' gives 'ziomg cannot run executable' | 08:23 |
| treach | sounds unlikely actually, since backwards compatibility basically is the only thing MS got going for them at this point.. | 08:23 |
| Romster | i'm sure i could still drop into dos mode on vista and still do a few tricks with commands. | 08:24 |
| Romster | although dos never had the power of bash. | 08:24 |
| tilman | Romster: you know Kreator, right? | 08:25 |
| Romster | tilman, yes | 08:25 |
| tilman | good :D | 08:25 |
| sepen | and tankard | 08:25 |
| sepen | hehe | 08:25 |
| Romster | Bringer Of Torture << | 08:25 |
| treach | Helloween! | 08:26 |
| * treach takes cover | 08:26 | |
| sepen | my favourity band on these years ----> carcass | 08:26 |
| sepen | keep on rothing on the free world | 08:26 |
| sepen | xD | 08:26 |
| tilman | rotting ;) | 08:26 |
| sepen | yea | 08:26 |
| Romster | lmao | 08:26 |
| tilman | i actually don't know their final album... except black star | 08:26 |
| tilman | heartwork ftw of course :D | 08:27 |
| Romster | hardly got any of kreator actually. | 08:27 |
| Romster | its' my type of style of metal. | 08:27 |
| tilman | Romster: their 2003 album 'live kreation' might be a good start | 08:28 |
| sepen | heartwork really rokcs | 08:28 |
| sepen | *rocks | 08:28 |
| Romster | tilman, ah k | 08:29 |
| sepen | ManOwaR -:- Kings of Metal | 08:29 |
| treach | rofl. | 08:29 |
| Romster | sepen, << | 08:29 |
| sepen | ajja | 08:29 |
| tilman | /ignore sepen | 08:29 |
| tilman | \o | 08:29 |
| sepen | \/o | 08:29 |
| Romster | tilman, Voices Of The Dead i love that song. | 08:29 |
| tilman | yeah, it's nice | 08:30 |
| Romster | now the guirtars and and everything is ideal metal. | 08:30 |
| Romster | not like some of the crap they make thesedays. | 08:30 |
| Romster | tilman, actaully i'm looking up more kreator that song rocks,. | 08:31 |
| tilman | 'coma of souls' (1990) is a classic. their 2001 come back album 'violent revolution' is great, too | 08:32 |
| tilman | between 90 and 2001 they mostly released mediocre stuff i think | 08:33 |
| Romster | i got some mixtapes of some awesome stuff i should throw on my pc, jsut wish i knew the artists. | 08:36 |
| Romster | insansely fast guitars. | 08:36 |
| Romster | doign the clasical scale. | 08:37 |
| Romster | doing* | 08:37 |
| Romster | not all of it is heavy singing. | 08:37 |
| sepen | guys, did you have 'fretsonfire' on your boxes? | 08:37 |
| Romster | some was more iron maden,saxton, metal church style. | 08:37 |
| Romster | nope. | 08:37 |
| sepen | did you read about how its? | 08:38 |
| sepen | opensource guitar-hero like | 08:38 |
| treach | Romster: that should be "saxon" | 08:39 |
| Romster | ah sorry my typo. | 08:39 |
| tilman | i only know panzerchrist's cover of metal church :D | 08:39 |
| Romster | heh | 08:39 |
| Romster | blind gurdian << | 08:40 |
| treach | >.< | 08:40 |
| tilman | blind gordian knot? | 08:40 |
| Romster | knot? | 08:40 |
| tilman | n/m | 08:41 |
| Romster | i don't mind "Enter Shikari" | 08:43 |
| Romster | takes a little geting used too though. | 08:43 |
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| * Romster plays in flames - bullet ride | 08:46 | |
| Romster | oh yeah and "Nevermore" rule too. wish i could find out what them artists are on these mix tapes i recorded off the air many years ago. | 08:49 |
| tilman | tried googling the lyrics? | 08:57 |
| Romster | thats a thought some but not all i shoudl try doing that again. | 08:58 |
| Romster | should* | 08:58 |
| Romster | hell where is that tape i'm gonna go looking now << | 09:03 |
| Romster | suprised my tape player even works i've nto used it in years lol... | 09:05 |
| Romster | not* | 09:05 |
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| Romster | now this song is odd metal and rap combined. | 09:06 |
| Romster | in a punk style. | 09:06 |
| tilman | limp bizkit? :p | 09:07 |
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| Romster | hell no.. | 09:17 |
| Romster | i did identify one song Mortification | 09:17 |
| Romster | maybe if i look in the same era.. | 09:17 |
| Romster | wtf Australian band too.. | 09:18 |
| Romster | that i didn't know. | 09:18 |
| treach | "99 (empty) bottles of beer"? :p | 09:18 |
| treach | s/bottles/cans/ I guess. :> | 09:19 |
| tilman | hehe | 09:19 |
| Romster | holly fuck i found another of the songs. | 09:39 |
| Romster | galactic cowboys | 09:39 |
| treach | "holly fuck"? Is that some pr0n actress? | 09:39 |
| Romster | O_o | 09:40 |
| treach | Afaik, "Holly" is a name. | 09:40 |
| Romster | it's a slang saying. | 09:40 |
| Romster | as in red dwarf's computer holly | 09:41 |
| tilman | treach: ;)) | 09:41 |
| Romster | mayeb i was ment to say holely | 09:41 |
| Romster | maybe* | 09:41 |
| treach | x_x | 09:41 |
| Romster | anyways my english is shit ya know that. | 09:42 |
| treach | the word is "Holy" | 09:42 |
| Romster | ah. | 09:42 |
| Romster | Galactic Cowboys was a christian heavy metal band based in Houston, Texas. They combined progressive metal with a style of vocals influenced by The Beatles and the heavy playing style of thrash bands such as Anthrax. They have been described as "possibly the most melodic metal band ever to exist in Christian or general markets | 09:44 |
| Romster | O_o | 09:44 |
| Romster | The Beatles... | 09:44 |
| treach | the beatless? | 09:45 |
| treach | :p | 09:45 |
| Romster | nah | 09:45 |
| Romster | lol.. | 09:45 |
| treach | I always thoght that would be a great name for a satire band or something. :P | 09:46 |
| sepen | http://www.hs-guitarshop.de/ | 09:48 |
| sepen | custom guitars | 09:48 |
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| Romster | hmm i think i found another band "Living Sacrifice" | 09:57 |
| sepen | Romster, I have a new repoverify version with some new features | 09:57 |
| sepen | http://rafb.net/p/X976yt10.html | 09:59 |
| Romster | i'm having fun finding some artists off lyrics off this tape i got. | 09:59 |
| Romster | tilman, "Living Sacrifice (1991) - Internal Unrest" is one of them songs i've been looking for... | 10:01 |
| Romster | now it might be easier to find that really long solo song i got. | 10:01 |
| tilman | :) | 10:01 |
| tilman | np: edguy - sacrifice | 10:01 |
| Romster | man i'm so gonna go hit the music shop sometime and order some cd's | 10:01 |
| tilman | that's another german power metal band btw | 10:01 |
| Romster | sweet i'll check that out. | 10:02 |
| tilman | not "true" shit like helloween etc though | 10:02 |
| tilman | :D | 10:02 |
| Romster | hehe | 10:03 |
| * treach hums "some people are much to smart, they know everything before it starts" | 10:03 | |
| treach | s/to/too | 10:03 |
| Romster | man this song is a slower and screaming type voice i dunno how people can understand the lyrics. | 10:05 |
| Romster | it's like mild black metal singing in a lower key. | 10:05 |
| Romster | aha now this is that long song... i must find | 10:06 |
| Romster | crap this is a tough one... | 10:09 |
| Romster | hmm i should record it and see if tilman might have an idea << | 10:15 |
| Romster | this one song has wicked guitar solos.. | 10:15 |
| tilman | if it's obscure bands from the early 90s i dunno whether i can help much :P | 10:18 |
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| Romster | this looks close http://www.lyricstime.com/virgin-steele-a-cry-in-the-night-lyrics.html | 10:21 |
| Romster | but isn't the song.. | 10:21 |
| Romster | some where in 89-92 or something i'd say. | 10:24 |
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| Romster | dang it's still eluding me. | 10:32 |
| Romster | i don't think it's that obscure. | 10:32 |
| tilman | oggenc -q 3 and upload it | 10:33 |
| tilman | i'll give it a listening | 10:33 |
| Romster | k | 10:33 |
| Romster | i'll throw it though my tascam tape player to my pc << | 10:33 |
| Romster | problem is i need to move the darn thing.. | 10:34 |
| Romster | finally got sound on line in.. now to record. | 10:43 |
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| sepen | jaeger, did you known http://www.gnome.org/projects/brasero/ | 10:51 |
| jaeger | sepen: I've heard of it, haven't tried it yet | 10:52 |
| sepen | ok, it seems that uses the same libraries that xfburn | 10:52 |
| sepen | and also this, (if you're interested) http://mikeux.dyndns.org/crux/logs/old/repoverify-gnome.log | 10:54 |
| jaeger | yeah, I know it's fairly messy | 10:56 |
| sepen | thereis the old report | 10:56 |
| sepen | the new ones don't can be filtered by log level | 10:56 |
| sepen | also I think Ill need a blacklist for mirrors (download.gnome.org included) | 10:57 |
| mike_k | Romster: real Tascam thing? | 11:10 |
| * mike_k goes and shoots himself | 11:10 | |
| Romster | yes i haev a tascam model 102 tape player << | 11:11 |
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| tilman | hahah | 11:11 |
| Romster | uploading now. | 11:11 |
| Romster | yeah it's a ripepr of a player shame it's the old days of tapes now. | 11:12 |
| tilman | http://www.phantomprod.com/vinTascamBR20Tb.jpg ? | 11:12 |
| Romster | wish i had got myself a 4 track rel to reel. | 11:12 |
| Romster | nah not that.. wish i had something like that though. | 11:13 |
| tilman | why? :p | 11:13 |
| * sepen Playing fear_factory/transgression/01 - 540,000 Degrees Fahrenheit.mp3 | 11:14 | |
| Romster | because they have a awesome sound. | 11:14 |
| tilman | mmhk | 11:16 |
| tilman | when i was a kid we had a track thing like that standing in the living room | 11:16 |
| tilman | ofc it was never used ;) | 11:16 |
| Romster | i can't beleave i can't find a picture of this model... | 11:18 |
| Romster | dang. | 11:18 |
| Romster | http://romster.shortcircuit.net.au/tmp/what_artist_and_song_is_this.ogg | 11:19 |
| Romster | if anyone can find me that i'd be grateful. | 11:19 |
| tilman | q3? ;) | 11:19 |
| Romster | yes | 11:19 |
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| tilman | still 5 mb ._, | 11:20 |
| Romster | is that what you encode all your songs at? | 11:20 |
| tilman | ofc not | 11:20 |
| Romster | it's a long song. | 11:20 |
| tilman | but it should do for a radio capture ;) | 11:20 |
| Romster | radio to tape to pc. | 11:20 |
| Romster | so it's not perfect i'd love to get the albums but if i only knew. | 11:21 |
| tilman | np: edguy - return to the tribe | 11:21 |
| tilman | apart from the guitar solo that's actually *sung* it's a cool song | 11:21 |
| Romster | ah. | 11:21 |
| tilman | hehe | 11:21 |
| Romster | you might think wtf at that song but *shrugs* | 11:22 |
| tilman | i crowd surfed when that band played at a festival in ... 06. i was a bit drunk ;) | 11:22 |
| Romster | lol | 11:22 |
| Romster | i'm glad i found some of the other songs so i'll go and visit the music shop with a order and hope i can get them albums in. | 11:25 |
| Romster | all the bands i've seen have nearly all been covers. | 11:27 |
| Romster | some i've worked with airbourne, john butler trio, shane out of the band goanna | 11:27 |
| Romster | ah yes and the origional dadid edings that sang school girl in acdc, he toured with a acdc cover band for a few shows. | 11:28 |
| Romster | and i saw queen. | 11:28 |
| Romster | can't think of much else... | 11:28 |
| Romster | al the rest cover bands. | 11:28 |
| Romster | presst sad arn't it. | 11:29 |
| Romster | oh yeah i met rose tatoo in person and stewie wood otu of the giants. | 11:29 |
| tilman | "worked with?" | 11:29 |
| Romster | out* | 11:29 |
| Romster | yes worked with sound and lighting professional audio | 11:29 |
| Romster | i used todo sound mixing but i gave it up the boss was a arsehole. | 11:30 |
| Romster | pubs and out doors some halls. | 11:30 |
| tilman | i see | 11:30 |
| Romster | not a over big rig about 6000watts rms | 11:30 |
| Romster | of front of house speakers 20,000watts of lighting. | 11:31 |
| sepen | #crux-live today | 11:31 |
| Romster | between that and being a electronics tech i ended up fising things when needed | 11:31 |
| Romster | sepen, heh | 11:31 |
| sepen | :) | 11:32 |
| Romster | i'd probabbly be rust at sound mixing now :/ | 11:32 |
| Romster | maybe one day i'll get back into it. | 11:32 |
| Romster | would love todo a huge production. | 11:32 |
| Romster | big day out or something. | 11:33 |
| Romster | no idea if i'll ever. | 11:33 |
| Romster | 12 years expeareance in that field. | 11:33 |
| Romster | and more with music itself. | 11:33 |
| Romster | i was better at that than i am at comptuer programming << | 11:34 |
| Romster | computer* | 11:34 |
| Romster | jsut everything about sound and lighting and not to overload all the circuits with too many items. | 11:35 |
| Romster | some shows we had like 4 or so cables to run everything. | 11:36 |
| Romster | most of the bands where good too. | 11:36 |
| Romster | got a few crappy ones out of key here and there, i can so pick that stuff. | 11:36 |
| Romster | know about harmonics, phase distortion speed of sound, refelections in rooms, you name it, all the stuff msot text books don't tell you. | 11:38 |
| Romster | and if they do there vauge on the topics. | 11:38 |
| Romster | i think i bored the channel now lol. | 11:38 |
| Romster | ok coffee time so i shutup << | 11:39 |
| tilman | Romster: no, i was afk ;) | 11:40 |
| Romster | ah that's ok << | 11:40 |
| tilman | Romster: how's your hearing? :) | 11:40 |
| Romster | amazingly very good despite very loud noise levels. | 11:40 |
| * tilman messed up his left ear at some festival :x | 11:40 | |
| tilman | mmh | 11:40 |
| Romster | i can here frequencys that a teenanger can hear | 11:41 |
| Romster | damn | 11:41 |
| Romster | even that ring tone that adults shouldn't be able to hear it i can hear it easily and i'm 30yo... | 11:41 |
| Romster | i can't explain it. | 11:41 |
| Romster | i can easily pick when a tv is on for it 15.625KHz tone they emit. | 11:42 |
| tilman | o_O | 11:42 |
| Romster | for PAL tv's here anyways. | 11:42 |
| Romster | i could be in another room and provind it's not too much background noise i can hear a tv whissle in another room. | 11:43 |
| Romster | provided* | 11:43 |
| joacim | so can i | 11:43 |
| joacim | but im 22 =) | 11:43 |
| tilman | what's the threshold for the (adult) human ear again? ~30 khz? | 11:43 |
| Romster | and this is after i've been around lound music... | 11:44 |
| Romster | highist frequency for a adouly be like 16KHz | 11:44 |
| Romster | adult* | 11:44 |
| tilman | lol, i was slightly off | 11:44 |
| Romster | but i can hear i think nearly to 20-21KHz | 11:44 |
| joacim | http://www.roger-russell.com/hearing/hearing.htm | 11:44 |
| Romster | bats emit 40KHz not sure what dogs can hear upto. | 11:45 |
| Romster | but them woofer stopers use piezos and they work upto 38KHz | 11:45 |
| tilman | hehe, edguy is so cheesy on the later albums | 11:47 |
| Romster | heh | 11:47 |
| Romster | so tilman any idea of that artist/song? | 11:50 |
| tilman | listening to | 11:51 |
| tilman | it now | 11:51 |
| Romster | threshold you'd be thinking of the db scale as in intensity? | 11:51 |
| Romster | k | 11:51 |
| tilman | i meant the max. freq that an adult can hear | 11:51 |
| Romster | ah | 11:52 |
| tilman | lol you SUCK at googling lyrics | 11:52 |
| tilman | first try, first hit, *match* | 11:52 |
| Romster | i wasn't sure if you confused your terms. | 11:52 |
| Romster | what... i typed in a shit load of keywords.. | 11:52 |
| tilman | i typed in the first words i understood :P | 11:53 |
| tilman | http://www.google.com/search?q=%22the%20devil%20she%20will%20hold%22 | 11:53 |
| tilman | fugly vocals imo :D | 11:54 |
| Romster | lol. | 11:54 |
| Romster | yeah it's diferent note that's not wha ti always listen too. | 11:55 |
| treach | human hearing is usually rated between 2Hz to ~23kHz, iirc. | 11:55 |
| Romster | justone of then naging songs i've been trying to find and man if i typed the frist line on it's own i might of got that... | 11:55 |
| Romster | something like that treach | 11:55 |
| Romster | but at 2Hz you feel it more than hear it. | 11:56 |
| treach | ftr, I can hear the tv too, god damned annoying. | 11:56 |
| Romster | yeah they are | 11:56 |
| Romster | i can't belave it tilman gts it in one sentance and i've tryed countless lines grr << | 11:57 |
| tilman | :D :D | 11:57 |
| Romster | maybe my problem was lack of quotes. | 11:58 |
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| Romster | thanks for that tilman | 11:58 |
| tilman | yw | 11:58 |
| Romster | learned to use quotes more oftern. | 12:01 |
| Romster | i've found other bands around that era too so i can probbably find that other style of music that isn't like that song << | 12:02 |
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| tilman | hehe, this RE business is fun | 12:12 |
| Romster | messing with RE's now << | 12:13 |
| tilman | it's great to look up certain opcodes that they use, and finding that 'the art of asm programming' says the are "ancient" or somesuch | 12:13 |
| tilman | or rarely used or something | 12:13 |
| Romster | isn't * ment to match everything i've had todo [a-zA-Z0-9-._]* | 12:13 |
| tilman | "archaic" was the term they used :D | 12:14 |
| Romster | ah | 12:14 |
| tilman | * means zero or more times | 12:14 |
| tilman | . matches any single character | 12:14 |
| Romster | ah so [.]* | 12:15 |
| Romster | or just .* | 12:15 |
| tilman | :D | 12:15 |
| Romster | hmm | 12:15 |
| treach | wildcards are fun. :/ | 12:15 |
| Romster | i thought . was a single space match and a \. to match a dot ah well... i'll edit my RE's again and test. | 12:16 |
| Romster | isnt there also [:alpha:] etc for sed too? | 12:16 |
| Romster | i never did find that stuff. | 12:16 |
| Romster | man page is huge. | 12:16 |
| treach | sometimes a single char is $, and sometimes * is any char, but only matches the next five chars.. | 12:16 |
| tilman | well, there's a bunch of different RE standards | 12:16 |
| tilman | [:alpha:] might be posix RE | 12:17 |
| Romster | $ is end of line though. | 12:17 |
| treach | Romster: depends on which system you're on.. | 12:17 |
| tilman | eg: \d only works in perl (and similiar implementations), in gnu you have to use [:digit:] | 12:17 |
| Romster | dang how many RE variations are there. | 12:17 |
| tilman | ^$ work everywhere (even on .net :D) | 12:17 |
| Romster | i've greped out lines out of http << | 12:18 |
| tilman | treach: what weird system uses $ for a single char? ._O | 12:18 |
| Romster | although i need a safer way with htmltidy or something. | 12:18 |
| tilman | maybe you should just use perl or ruby or python | 12:18 |
| treach | tilman: it's not RE as such, but iirc DOS does that | 12:18 |
| tilman | dos... ;) | 12:19 |
| treach | indeed | 12:19 |
| treach | _always_ assbackwards.. | 12:19 |
| tilman | mov ah, 0xdead | 12:19 |
| tilman | int 21 | 12:19 |
| treach | 0xbeef | 12:19 |
| tilman | sanity check passed | 12:20 |
| * jjpk fires up grill | 12:20 | |
| jjpk | BBQ time. | 12:20 |
| tilman | mmh, that reminds me i need to do mov mouth, food | 12:21 |
| tilman | a steak would be nice now ;) | 12:21 |
| Romster | hehe | 12:22 |
| Romster | so int 21h, time << | 12:22 |
| Romster | dos did things oddly. | 12:22 |
| Romster | what amazes me is the dll files from one compiler can work with a program compiled from a diferent compiler | 12:23 |
| tilman | ofc it does | 12:24 |
| tilman | because both compilers implement the ABI for the system | 12:24 |
| treach | mv me, 0xtable ;) | 12:25 |
| Romster | ah. | 12:25 |
| tilman | base 36? | 12:25 |
| Romster | that's it they maintian the ABI while linux dosn't? | 12:26 |
| Romster | or something. | 12:26 |
| Romster | i reas reading in reactos about some chat awhile ago. | 12:26 |
| Romster | still wondering what ever uses octal anymore. | 12:26 |
| tilman | Romster: you're thinking of the internal kernel api | 12:26 |
| Romster | ah yes. | 12:26 |
| tilman | api = app programming interface | 12:26 |
| tilman | abi = app binary interface | 12:26 |
| tilman | abi includes things like how function arguments are passed, whether the caller or the callee clean up the stack on return etc | 12:27 |
| Romster | ah. | 12:27 |
| Romster | so the api can difer but the abi must remain the same. | 12:27 |
| Romster | or something like that of course the lib and program need matching api functionally too, but added api calls don't interfear with a program that dosn't call them. | 12:28 |
| tilman | something like that, yeah | 12:28 |
| Romster | right i really had myself confused. | 12:29 |
| Romster | i did know the terms but i wasn't sure what exactly abi did. other than it was important with the compiler. | 12:30 |
| Romster | i'm gonna get me some food << | 12:30 |
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| clickonce | Guys, in my lspci output I have one nVidia card at 01:00.0 but I know I have two cards in my machine. (Onboard and AGP). In BIOS I have the option to set which one is used for booting, the two options are: "PCI" or "Onboard/AGP", does that mean the onboard card is a AGP card and that it is disabled completely when another AGP card is inserted? In other words, I'm screwed getting two monitors if I don't get a PCI card? | 12:54 |
| treach | I'd guess they mean Onboard OR agp with that. | 12:55 |
| treach | but who knows | 12:56 |
| clickonce | Okay, though I wonder where my onboard card is in the lspci output. | 12:58 |
| Romster | i'd say on board agp is disabled with a add on agp card. | 12:58 |
| clickonce | It's an i810 Intel onboard crap thing. | 12:58 |
| treach | if it's disabled in bios it shouldn't show up. | 12:58 |
| Romster | you can get a dual output agp card anyways | 12:58 |
| clickonce | treach: I haven't disabled anything in BIOS, I can't even find anything about disabling cards either. | 12:59 |
| treach | ugh | 12:59 |
| treach | clickonce: ok, sorry for wasting your bandwidth. :) | 12:59 |
| Romster | this nvidia 760gs has 2 outputs plus rgb/svhs/composate. | 12:59 |
| clickonce | treach: whoa? | 13:00 |
| treach | I generally try to stay as far away from built in crap as possible. | 13:00 |
| clickonce | Well, I wouldn't like to buy a new card for this machine. | 13:00 |
| Romster | clickonce, as soon as you plug in a video card in the agp slot it'll disable on board, unless it has a funky bios. | 13:00 |
| treach | clickonce: don't worry about that | 13:00 |
| clickonce | I've gotten it to work dual-head with a PCI card though. | 13:00 |
| Romster | yeah as that dosn't disable the on board video as your not using the agp slot.. | 13:01 |
| clickonce | Damn cheap crap thing. | 13:01 |
| Romster | makes perfect sense. | 13:01 |
| RedShift | treach: Intel's G33 is certainly not bad :-) | 13:01 |
| Romster | avoid onboard video at all costs. | 13:02 |
| treach | RedShift: built in stuff is crap by definition | 13:02 |
| clickonce | Romster: Kinda sucks of the manufacturer to not let the user configure it. | 13:02 |
| RedShift | unless you're going for gaming, onboard video cards are just fine | 13:02 |
| Romster | clickonce, yeah cheaply done using the agp socket. | 13:02 |
| treach | until they break, or you get some other problems from it | 13:02 |
| RedShift | these days they even come with DVI or even HDMI | 13:02 |
| clickonce | treach: OnBoard ethernet as well? | 13:02 |
| treach | clickonce: heh, hard to avoid these days. :/ | 13:02 |
| clickonce | Yeah. | 13:03 |
| Romster | on board eithernet is fine | 13:03 |
| tilman | my builtin nic works great | 13:03 |
| tilman | (sky2 on a nforce 5) | 13:03 |
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| RedShift | onboard ethernet is fine but onboard video is not? :\ | 13:03 |
| Romster | just video i'd avoid unless you don't need a high powered gpu | 13:03 |
| tilman | s/great/good enough/ | 13:03 |
| treach | tilman: I would still prefer my intel pro 100.. :D | 13:03 |
| Romster | next ya will say on board sata isn't fine.. | 13:03 |
| clickonce | Too bad I've thrown away all old PCI cards I've had lying around. | 13:03 |
| tilman | treach: i realy meant: it suffices for my lowly needs | 13:03 |
| tilman | i mainly talk to my router ;) | 13:04 |
| RedShift | treach: I've tested both the forcedeth and sky2, and performance is nearly identical on my e1000 card | 13:04 |
| RedShift | the forcedeth showed a bit higher CPU usage, but that was fixed by a module argument | 13:04 |
| treach | RedShift: sure, but I'd trust the drivers for the intel card more than the reverse engineered stuff for the forcedeth.. | 13:04 |
| tilman | these days nvidia folks contribute to forcedeth | 13:05 |
| tilman | so i doubt it's that bad a hackjob :) | 13:05 |
| RedShift | ugh I've seen complaints about the e1000 being one piece of crap | 13:05 |
| tilman | s/folks/one guy/ maybe, but who cares | 13:05 |
| RedShift | intel was affraid releasing the specs because then the world would really see how bad they are | 13:06 |
| RedShift | sure the e100 chipset is great | 13:06 |
| RedShift | the e1000 is another story | 13:06 |
| clickonce | I got an onboard e1000. | 13:06 |
| treach | RedShift: also, to go back to the point wrt built in graphics/ethernet; built in ethernet usually IME is much easier to disable and completly forget about than built in graphics. | 13:08 |
| RedShift | ugh the motherboards I use have a jumper to disable the onboard graphics | 13:08 |
| RedShift | I'm not going to name the brand I use or Romster will start complaining again :D | 13:09 |
| Romster | i don't agree with built in sound but most inboult sound these days is reasonable. | 13:09 |
| treach | yeah, guess what, not everyone have the same mainboards.. | 13:09 |
| tilman | the ones which cost 1337% more than consumer hardware? | 13:09 |
| Romster | lol.. | 13:09 |
| RedShift | tilman: only 50% more than the average high end consumer hardware | 13:09 |
| * clickonce needs two quad PCIe ethernet cards | 13:09 | |
| clickonce | I'm a subnet freak :) | 13:09 |
| Romster | O_o | 13:09 |
| Romster | gawd... | 13:09 |
| Romster | i was gonna say what's wrong with a switch.. | 13:10 |
| treach | virtual interfaces. ;) | 13:10 |
| clickonce | My soon to be router/firewall has 3 ports... and it isn't possible to expand it. | 13:10 |
| RedShift | clickonce: that's why they invented VLANs so you don't need that many ethernet ports... | 13:10 |
| Romster | mine only has 2. | 13:10 |
| clickonce | treach: I've been thinking about that, but, would it be possible to configure a L2/L3 manageable switch to include one particular port in more than one VLAN? | 13:11 |
| RedShift | if that port is tagged ofcourse | 13:11 |
| RedShift | you can send multiple tagged VLANs over a port | 13:11 |
| RedShift | but you can have only one untagged VLAN on a port | 13:11 |
| clickonce | But, traffic from one VLAN wouldn't jump to another VLAN without going through the router then? | 13:11 |
| RedShift | yes | 13:12 |
| RedShift | that's kinda the point of VLANs :D | 13:12 |
| RedShift | use vconfig to configure VLANs on an interface | 13:12 |
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| clickonce | So if port 0 is connected to the router, port 1-5 is one VLAN and port 6-10 is one, if a computer on say port 3 sends a packet to a computer on another vlan it woull first go to the switch, out on port 0 to the router, back to the switch and out on the other vlan? | 13:14 |
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| treach | "router on a stick" | 13:14 |
| clickonce | ? | 13:15 |
| treach | google it | 13:15 |
| RedShift | clickonce: kind of, but the router will map the packet to the right vlan | 13:15 |
| RedShift | the switch won't | 13:15 |
| clickonce | RedShift: Which is what I want, so if I disconnect the router the packets won't reach the destination vlan. | 13:16 |
| RedShift | yes | 13:16 |
| clickonce | Apparently I need a switch that supports it as well. | 13:16 |
| RedShift | have you worked with 802.1q VLANs before? | 13:16 |
| RedShift | they can be confusing at first | 13:17 |
| clickonce | I haven't worked with VLANs at all before. I have a managed layer 2 switch, but it's broken somehow. I've tried creating a few VLANs on it and connected a router, etc, etc. Thing is, a computer on one vlan can talk to another computer on another vlan just by going through the switch (with the router disconnected). | 13:18 |
| RedShift | how old is the switch? | 13:18 |
| clickonce | 1.5U 3Com SuperStack II 3300 | 13:18 |
| RedShift | there's generally two types of VLANs, private VLANs and 802.1q VLANs | 13:18 |
| RedShift | they are both different | 13:19 |
| clickonce | Makes the noise of a Boeing 747 when connected to the wall. | 13:19 |
| RedShift | hmm that's quite an old switch | 13:19 |
| RedShift | I don't think those have support for 802.1q VLANs | 13:19 |
| RedShift | let me look, I have a switch from that eara | 13:20 |
| clickonce | Okay.. | 13:20 |
| RedShift | ugh the fans are broken | 13:25 |
| clickonce | Btw, what is the mknod parameters for /dev/eth0? I can't find the info on google. | 13:25 |
| RedShift | what? | 13:25 |
| RedShift | /dev/eth0?? | 13:25 |
| RedShift | that shouldn't exist | 13:26 |
| RedShift | why would you need that anyway? | 13:26 |
| SiFuh_ | Romster: my condolences | 13:26 |
| clickonce | Network access? | 13:26 |
| treach | /dev/eth0 ceased to exist may years ago.. | 13:26 |
| treach | clickonce: there haven't been a /dev/eth0 since 2.2.x, possibly even 2.0.x | 13:27 |
| clickonce | Hmm, okay, I recall having it quite recently.. | 13:27 |
| luxh | :D | 13:27 |
| RedShift | ugh what's this things IP address again | 13:28 |
| RedShift | got it | 13:28 |
| RedShift | it only has private VLANs | 13:29 |
| clickonce | RedShift: What is a private VLAN compared to 802.1q? | 13:29 |
| RedShift | private VLANs is like chopping up your switch in different switches | 13:30 |
| RedShift | one ports in the same VLAN can exchange frames | 13:30 |
| RedShift | *only ports... | 13:30 |
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| RedShift | if you want inter-vlan communication you have to make a bridge between them | 13:30 |
| clickonce | Yeah, well, that's how I have setup this switch... but computers can still talk to each other even though they are in different PVLANs.. | 13:31 |
| RedShift | while 802.1q VLANs use tagging | 13:31 |
| RedShift | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VLAN | 13:31 |
| RedShift | ugh that's not good | 13:31 |
| clickonce | But, with private vlans (if they had been working on this one) I would have to connect the router to each vlan? | 13:32 |
| RedShift | yes | 13:32 |
| RedShift | there's no such thing as tagging or untagging with private VLANs | 13:32 |
| clickonce | Now I just need to figure out the IP of this switch as well :) | 13:34 |
| RedShift | IIRC those switches have console access :-) | 13:34 |
| clickonce | It does have web as well :) | 13:35 |
| clickonce | I know it has web since that's what I used when I played with it. :) | 13:35 |
| clickonce | I just need to figure out the IP. | 13:35 |
| RedShift | well time to put this baby back to rest, the noise is killing me | 13:35 |
| RedShift | this year is his 10th birthday I think | 13:36 |
| clickonce | Nice :) | 13:36 |
| RedShift | http://www.novotec.uk.com/images/ibm/8275-324.jpg | 13:37 |
| clickonce | That's a cute one :) | 13:38 |
| clickonce | http://www.3com.de/presse/fotos/assets/lanswitches/ss3switch3300.jpg | 13:38 |
| clickonce | That's mine. | 13:38 |
| clickonce | That's a SuperStack 3 though, mine is SS2 | 13:38 |
| RedShift | yes I've worked with those switches before | 13:39 |
| RedShift | on my IBM I replaced the power supply twice | 13:39 |
| RedShift | http://users.opengate.be/~glenn/album/index.php?folder=/Misc/IBM%20Switch%20repair%201/ | 13:39 |
| clickonce | Crap :) | 13:39 |
| RedShift | and the second time: http://users.opengate.be/~glenn/album/index.php?folder=/Misc/IBM%20Switch%20repair%202/ | 13:40 |
| clickonce | Woah, same connector as computer PSU? | 13:40 |
| RedShift | no | 13:40 |
| RedShift | I cut off the original connector and use a bridge (or whatever you call it in english, don't know the name) to wire the cables | 13:41 |
| clickonce | ah, okay :) | 13:41 |
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| RedShift | it's mounted a bit primitive (notice the cable straps used) | 13:41 |
| RedShift | but it's quite solid, works perfectly | 13:41 |
| RedShift | took some time to find a PSU that fitted | 13:42 |
| RedShift | both come from PC power supplies | 13:42 |
| clickonce | Found it! :) 192.168.1.57 | 13:42 |
| RedShift | the processor is an AMD 486 or something :D | 13:42 |
| clickonce | Nice :D haha | 13:43 |
| RedShift | you can't see it, it's on the other side of the top PCB | 13:43 |
| RedShift | that 3com probably has something similar | 13:43 |
| clickonce | Hmm, I have this option on one page: 802.1Q VLAN Learning: :) | 13:43 |
| clickonce | So it does have 802.1Q support :D | 13:43 |
| RedShift | :O | 13:43 |
| RedShift | nice | 13:43 |
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| RedShift | can you set tagged and untagged for certain ports? | 13:44 |
| RedShift | when creating a VLAN? | 13:44 |
| clickonce | Too bad it makes the noise of a Boeing 747 :() | 13:44 |
| RedShift | or on the port properties page, can you selected to accept tagged frames? | 13:44 |
| RedShift | clickonce: why you think I turned mine off :D | 13:44 |
| RedShift | the fans are kaputt | 13:44 |
| RedShift | they work but the bearings are more square than Romster | 13:45 |
| clickonce | It does have buttons on the VLANs page for (Add to VLAN using 802.1Q tagging) and (Remove from VLAN 802.1Q tagged ports only) | 13:45 |
| RedShift | nice :O | 13:45 |
| clickonce | Jesus, it has this "Getting Started" wizard, it has the same colors and appearance like the Windows 95 wizards. :) | 13:47 |
| RedShift | do you know the difference between tagged and untagged? | 13:49 |
| clickonce | RedShift: Do you recall the factory default IP for the SS2 3300 Switch? | 13:49 |
| RedShift | hell no :D | 13:49 |
| clickonce | Okay :P | 13:49 |
| RedShift | I think it even uses DHCP by default | 13:49 |
| RedShift | not sure | 13:49 |
| RedShift | too vague to remember | 13:49 |
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| RedShift | I usually just manage them with the console port | 13:50 |
| clickonce | Well, I don't have such a cable.. and I'm too cheap to buy one. | 13:50 |
| RedShift | looks more "he's the real deal" to the other people *g* | 13:50 |
| clickonce | =) | 13:51 |
| Romster | ahem. | 13:52 |
| clickonce | "VLAN Setup Error! Cannot Delete VLAN" | 13:53 |
| * Romster gives up flood the channel with advertising. | 13:53 | |
| RedShift | you sure that's a superstack 2? | 13:53 |
| RedShift | ah wait | 13:53 |
| RedShift | found it :) | 13:53 |
| Romster | i'll just stick RedShift on ignore if it bothers me. | 13:53 |
| clickonce | The front of it says "SuperStack II" on the front :) | 13:54 |
| clickonce | Nice, it has port trunking :) | 13:55 |
| RedShift | what software version have you got? | 13:56 |
| clickonce | 2.4 | 13:56 |
| RedShift | http://www.3com.com/products/en_US/result.jsp?selected=2&sort=effdt&order=desc&sku=3C16982-US | 13:57 |
| clickonce | I wonder if I can update the software. | 13:58 |
| RedShift | it does have 802.1q | 13:58 |
| RedShift | awesome :) | 13:58 |
| RedShift | wouldn't have expected that on a switch that old | 13:58 |
| clickonce | Well, I got it from a hosting company when I worked there. :) | 13:59 |
| RedShift | the docs don't say what the default IP address is | 14:01 |
| RedShift | only for slip | 14:01 |
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| RedShift | it may be the same though, 192.168.101.1 | 14:01 |
| RedShift | or 192.168.100.1 | 14:01 |
| clickonce | Okay :) | 14:02 |
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| clickonce | Last software update is from 10 Sep 2004 | 14:03 |
| RedShift | well once you've resetted the switch, assign your interface an address in the 192.168.100.0/24 and use nmap to scan the network for port 80, it should turn up | 14:04 |
| clickonce | Nice, I'll do that :) | 14:04 |
| RedShift | if the default address is in the 192.168.100.0/24 range ofcourse | 14:05 |
| clickonce | I could just make my computer be in 192.168.0.0/16 and nmap everything :) | 14:06 |
| RedShift | uh | 14:07 |
| RedShift | I don't think it'll respond, you're in a different subnet then | 14:07 |
| clickonce | YAY! Prince and The Village People are suing The Pirate Bay. Finally. | 14:08 |
| clickonce | RedShift: I'll make a script going through .0.1 to .255.254 then :) | 14:09 |
| treach | good luck with that. | 14:09 |
| RedShift | oh well, happy networking :-) | 14:09 |
| * RedShift food | 14:09 | |
| treach | clickonce: biggest hole in the air I've ever seen. :D | 14:09 |
| clickonce | treach: haha | 14:11 |
| treach | clickonce: It won't fly, since this isn't the US | 14:13 |
| clickonce | They're going to pursue it both in Sweden and in the US | 14:14 |
| treach | so? | 14:14 |
| clickonce | I hope they win somewhere, for all I care the people behing TPB should be put away for life. | 14:14 |
| luxh | haha | 14:14 |
| treach | "worst" case; these people will not be able to go to the us. | 14:14 |
| clickonce | And I hope to god that more artists and companies sue them as well. | 14:14 |
| treach | not that I can think of a single reason to want to go there | 14:14 |
| treach | rofl. | 14:15 |
| clickonce | I do honestly hate illegal downloading. To me it's as bad as stealing. | 14:15 |
| treach | "think of the children!" | 14:15 |
| clickonce | Eh? | 14:15 |
| treach | Why won't anyone think of the children!" | 14:15 |
| clickonce | The poor children who can't afford buying the music? | 14:16 |
| jjpk | ZOMG. save the children! | 14:16 |
| treach | ooooh, the pooor, poor starving artists! | 14:16 |
| treach | cry me a river | 14:16 |
| clickonce | It's not about the god damn money damnit. It's about the illegal downloading. | 14:16 |
| tilman | the poor poor huge record companies (which only sell crappy pop music) | 14:16 |
| clickonce | It's not right to steal Coca Cola either, even if you can't afford it. | 14:16 |
| treach | tilman: indeed. | 14:16 |
| tilman | who says it's illegal? it's legal in sweden :) | 14:17 |
| treach | clickonce: get a fucking clue. | 14:17 |
| sepen | now its the music day | 14:17 |
| clickonce | What is legal? | 14:17 |
| treach | copying is NOT stealing. | 14:17 |
| tilman | file sharing is legal in sweden (where TPB is hosted) | 14:17 |
| clickonce | treach: It's still illegal and as bad as stealing. | 14:17 |
| treach | tilman: no, but linking is | 14:17 |
| clickonce | tilman: Linking is, file sharing is not. | 14:17 |
| clickonce | TPB only links to content, it doesn't host any. | 14:17 |
| treach | clickonce: well. there it is. | 14:17 |
| treach | they are clear | 14:18 |
| joacim | can nike sue you for giving away 1:1 copies of their shoes? | 14:18 |
| jjpk | file sharing per se is not illegal anywhere: COPYRIGHTED file sharing however is ;) | 14:18 |
| tilman | oh? so tpb users could be successfully sued in .se? | 14:18 |
| sepen | hi! Im a crux's newbie, is that distro for musicians? | 14:18 |
| treach | tilman: no, but prosecuted | 14:18 |
| sepen | s/that/this | 14:18 |
| tilman | sepen: no, but there's some music enthusiasts maybe! | 14:18 |
| clickonce | joacim: That's not the same as violating software/game licenses or violating copyright laws. | 14:18 |
| tilman | treach: k | 14:18 |
| sepen | hehehe | 14:18 |
| tilman | treach: one of the xmms2 guys told me it was perfectly legal. mmh. | 14:18 |
| sepen | wacken wacken wacken crux | 14:18 |
| sepen | xD | 14:18 |
| treach | tilman: it used to be. | 14:19 |
| treach | btw, copyright law is so fucked up it has lost all meaning. | 14:19 |
| treach | it's just a way for corporations to use laws to perpetualize their own existence and incomes. | 14:20 |
| tilman | the record companies are fucked up, that's what i care about | 14:20 |
| tilman | albums are too damn expensive these days, at least here | 14:20 |
| treach | tilman: disney is probably the biggest hypocrites in the universe.. | 14:21 |
| clickonce | Buy it from iTunes, all the stuff on iTunes is cheap IMO and I'm not rich. | 14:21 |
| tilman | and i really don't care whether the huge companies make less money from their cheap pop crap | 14:21 |
| tilman | i wouldn't buy DRM'd music | 14:21 |
| clickonce | iTunes Plus is not DRMd | 14:21 |
| clickonce | It's 256kbit/s non-drm stuff. | 14:22 |
| treach | clickonce: it's not about money, it's about principles too. | 14:22 |
| jjpk | The major labels are just pissed because they cannot compete and instead of adapting to the conditions they want governments to do their bidding for them. | 14:22 |
| clickonce | At the same price as the DRMd stuff. | 14:22 |
| tilman | anyway, i don't "steal" much music, i've got a clean conscience ;p | 14:22 |
| clickonce | treach: Principles? | 14:22 |
| clickonce | treach: What principles? | 14:22 |
| treach | these fucking asshats use the copyright laws to ripp off artists as well as the general public | 14:22 |
| clickonce | treach: If someone make something and they want money for it then it's up to them, not you to grab it anyway. | 14:22 |
| treach | well, if you buy politicians to make laws that only makes sense to you, it does. | 14:23 |
| clickonce | So, according to you, I have no right to demand $X for my music or $XX for my piece of software? | 14:23 |
| treach | not really. | 14:24 |
| clickonce | Why not? | 14:24 |
| treach | you have no right to make money from what you do. You have a righ to TRY to make money from it. | 14:24 |
| treach | If everyone had a right to make money from what they do, we'd still be riding stagecoaches. | 14:24 |
| clickonce | Well, I have the right not to give it away if someone doesn't want to pay me, AND I have the right to require them to sign a contract/license if they choose to buy it. | 14:24 |
| treach | but your rights aren't prepetual, or at least shouldn't be. | 14:25 |
| clickonce | And if they DO sign the contract/license I have the right to sue them if they violate it. | 14:25 |
| treach | remember, copyright is something society has given you in order to make you produce more, to the benefit of society. | 14:25 |
| clickonce | Oh, jesus, socialistic crap. | 14:26 |
| treach | but if you get a garanteed income for all eternety from what you do, the incentitive is *gone* | 14:26 |
| treach | It has NOTHING to do with socialism | 14:26 |
| tilman | treach: mmhmmhmhmh. i don't think they have that in german copyright law :P | 14:26 |
| tilman | (produce more -> benefit of society) | 14:26 |
| treach | well, essentially. | 14:26 |
| clickonce | treach: If you have signed the contract it is final, you can't copy it unless the contract/license permits it. | 14:27 |
| treach | well, I haven't signed anything.. | 14:27 |
| clickonce | treach: By breaking the seal of a cd, by installing/using the software, etc you DO accept to those terms. | 14:27 |
| treach | bullshit | 14:27 |
| clickonce | It's not. | 14:27 |
| treach | shrinkwrap licenses are not valid. | 14:27 |
| joacim | a license you havent read isnt legal | 14:28 |
| clickonce | Software licenses are not shrinkwrap licenses. | 14:28 |
| treach | clickonce: this is different in different countries. | 14:28 |
| treach | a contract is supposed to be a "meeting of minds" | 14:28 |
| clickonce | The license of software is displayed on screen before you accept it. | 14:28 |
| treach | a shrinkwrap or boiler plate licence is not a meeting of minds. | 14:28 |
| treach | it's totallty one sided, and thus void | 14:29 |
| clickonce | It's not void if you accept it, which you do by clicking accept. | 14:29 |
| treach | it's void because it's forced. | 14:29 |
| clickonce | It's not, you have to option not to accept it/ | 14:29 |
| clickonce | But then you don't have the right to use the software. | 14:29 |
| clickonce | Which is fair. | 14:29 |
| treach | I can't get my money back if I disagree, and thus I have no choice | 14:29 |
| clickonce | Of course you can, the MS EULA, for instance, does say you can get a refund if you don't accept the software. | 14:30 |
| treach | rofl | 14:30 |
| treach | have you tried | 14:30 |
| treach | ? | 14:30 |
| clickonce | Actually not since I don't have any need to. | 14:31 |
| tilman | treach: that has worked in .de before :p | 14:31 |
| treach | You should, just so you know what you're talking about.. | 14:31 |
| treach | tilman: this isn't .de | 14:31 |
| tilman | :x | 14:31 |
| treach | the so called jucidal system here is quite corporate friendly. :/ | 14:32 |
| clickonce | I do defend the corporates and the copyright laws where ever I go, and I'm not even related to any of them. | 14:32 |
| treach | quite the indoctrinate, huh. | 14:33 |
| clickonce | Nope. | 14:33 |
| treach | you're getting screwed, and you're asking for more. | 14:33 |
| clickonce | I'm a proprietary software developer ;) | 14:33 |
| treach | well, there were once a lot of people who lived on making weels, and buggywhips etc.. | 14:34 |
| joacim | gb2windows | 14:34 |
| treach | s/weels/wheels | 14:34 |
| SiFuh_ | http://youtube.com/watch?v=JhzBVBZKte4 | 14:38 |
| SiFuh_ | always a classic | 14:38 |
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| treach | tilman: btw, if society didn't grant you copyright in order for you to produce more, *why* should it give this privilege in the first place..? =) | 14:45 |
| tilman | so i can't rip off your work | 14:46 |
| treach | what's in that for the society? | 14:46 |
| clickonce | Just mentioning the word "society" proofs it's all about socialistic crap. Anyway, movie time. Bleh. | 14:47 |
| jjpk | For the benefit of society? Gah. They have us all fooled. | 14:47 |
| treach | clickonce: you're a big fool | 14:47 |
| jjpk | Maybe 50-100 years ago it was true, today it certainly is not. | 14:47 |
| treach | jjpk: indeed. | 14:47 |
| tilman | treach: wouldn't you be pissed if i got filthy rich because i took and sold your work, and you got nothing in return for that work? :p | 14:47 |
| treach | well, *I* would. | 14:48 |
| clickonce | treach: Bah, I don't like neither the society nor socialistic fucktards. Capitalism is the only way to go. | 14:48 |
| treach | tilman: but I doubt the society would care | 14:48 |
| treach | clickonce: you're an even bigger fool than I thougt | 14:48 |
| treach | thought | 14:48 |
| clickonce | So be it. | 14:48 |
| clickonce | Go to go now. | 14:48 |
| tilman | treach: i hope (and think) they do | 14:49 |
| treach | "society" has nothing to do with "socialism". | 14:50 |
| treach | society is just the entity that defines the rules. | 14:50 |
| DaViruz | everything beginning with "soci" is communist propaganda, everyone knows that | 14:50 |
| treach | and if *it* doesn't gain from them, they are not going to be created. | 14:50 |
| treach | DaViruz: haha, right. :D | 14:51 |
| * jjpk summons good ole Joe McCarthy | 14:52 | |
| treach | "I don't live in a society, I live in capitalism" | 14:52 |
| treach | rofl | 14:52 |
| jjpk | Anything deviant HAS to be communist. | 14:52 |
| jjpk | We shall persecute every communist. | 14:53 |
| jjpk | real or perceived | 14:53 |
| jjpk | Regardless of the political and social order, society still exists. ;) | 14:54 |
| treach | indeed... | 14:55 |
| jjpk | "for the benefit of society" if that part of copyright ever even existed, then copyright would differ quite radically. | 14:58 |
| jjpk | Perhaps you can claim you invented it, but anyone would use it. | 14:58 |
| jjpk | Something more along the lines of open source licenses. | 14:59 |
| jjpk | I doubt it would work well too long before people would be killing one another :D | 15:00 |
| jjpk | You can't separate greed and lust from humanity. | 15:00 |
| jjpk | A good and proper genetic rewiring could come handy to reduce and remove those traits ;) | 15:02 |
| treach | it's what copyright is about, originally. As I said, if I for instance ripp off tilman's work, then maybe I could create something from that that benefited societey even more. | 15:02 |
| treach | copyright is the way of the society to award the original author for a limited time, so he can continue and create something new, rather than being put out of business by copycats | 15:03 |
| treach | iow, it's a way to say, "Hey, good work, as a thank you for this, we'll abstain from replicating your stuff for X years." | 15:06 |
| treach | but not having people replicating what you've done isn't some god given right, just like being able to sell it also isn't. | 15:07 |
| tilman | treach: bleh, that's what i said earlier, isn't it? | 15:13 |
| treach | not sure, maybe I got you wrong. | 15:14 |
| treach | my point is that copyright is just a way of society to be "nice". | 15:14 |
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| treach | it's a privilege, granted to you as an award, not some perpetual god given right as some seem to think. | 15:15 |
| tilman | sure, i agree | 15:16 |
| tri | re | 15:16 |
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| teliti | Hello everyone. I'm on Crux-2.4 (i686) with the following firefox startup problem: /usr/lib/firefox/run-mozilla.sh: line 131: 16343 Segmentation fault "$prog" ${1+"$@"} | 15:17 |
| teliti | Is there a way to fix this? | 15:17 |
| treach | ugh, not that again.. | 15:18 |
| teliti | *g*, I finished compiling some minutes ago ... do you know a solution? | 15:18 |
| treach | teliti: I had that problem a while back.. I don't remember how I fixed it though. | 15:19 |
| Romster | i thought we got rid of that issue. | 15:19 |
| treach | tried as a different user? | 15:19 |
| treach | or just moving your .mozilla dir to something else? | 15:20 |
| teliti | treach: as a different user? I tried it with my user-account and with root ... | 15:20 |
| treach | ah | 15:20 |
| treach | k.. | 15:20 |
| treach | fancy c/cxx flags? | 15:21 |
| teliti | no ... | 15:21 |
| Romster | pkgadd -u firefox off the 2.4 cd and see if that works if that works you compiled firefox badly somehow. | 15:21 |
| teliti | no, its no working ... the same massage | 15:23 |
| Romster | hmp.. | 15:23 |
| tilman | teliti: get a debug build (CFLAGS="$CFLAGS -g") pkgmk -ns -kw | 15:23 |
| tilman | and debug the mofo | 15:23 |
| tilman | :D | 15:23 |
| teliti | *g* this evening? oh dear ... | 15:24 |
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| treach | teliti: did you rebuild any other critical stuff? | 15:24 |
| tilman | teliti: don't listen to me | 15:24 |
| Romster | move your .mozilla directory like mv ~/.mozilla ~/.mozilla.bak | 15:24 |
| teliti | tilman: well, I updated the basesystems where it came out of date | 15:24 |
| Romster | and try then and if that don't work you should try revdep to see if you got any broken librarys. | 15:25 |
| treach | argh. I hate this problem. | 15:25 |
| teliti | me too :-) | 15:25 |
| treach | I never fully understood what was the cause when I was hit by it | 15:25 |
| Romster | i dunno what exactly casues it either.. | 15:25 |
| Romster | all i did was recompile crap i think. | 15:26 |
| Romster | i'd say it might be todo with the gtk update? | 15:26 |
| treach | no. | 15:27 |
| teliti | no, thats not possible | 15:27 |
| Romster | i'm stumped on ideas then.. | 15:27 |
| Romster | if i remember something it couldn't execute the firefox binary in the /usr/share/firefox/ or somethng but why i dunno. | 15:29 |
| treach | as far as I can find out, your firefox isn't executeable | 15:29 |
| Romster | might have something todo with runing it as root messing up some permissions i think.. i relaly can't remember. | 15:30 |
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| treach | so either something broke during compilation, or you've got permissions problems | 15:30 |
| teliti | -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 5286 Feb 15 22:22 firefox | 15:30 |
| Romster | that looks right... | 15:31 |
| treach | teliti: can you build a working helloworld? | 15:31 |
| teliti | with c? | 15:31 |
| treach | I'd presume it should be c++ | 15:31 |
| joacim | I had a similar error on gentoo once, I "fixed" by restarting X11 | 15:32 |
| teliti | yes | 15:32 |
| teliti | treach! *g* | 15:32 |
| teliti | ok, ill restart it ... | 15:33 |
| teliti | cu | 15:33 |
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| teliti | no, thats not the problem | 15:33 |
| treach | teliti: have you edited your c/cxx flags at all? (I'm aware you said you didn't use any fancy stuff) | 15:35 |
| teliti | no, I didnt ... | 15:36 |
| treach | ok | 15:36 |
| treach | hmm. path problem maybe? | 15:38 |
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| teliti | well, at least the executable is found, and I dont have any strange settings | 15:39 |
| treach | teliti: if you have a look at line 131 in /usr/lib/firefox/run-mozilla.sh, it would indicate something like that | 15:39 |
| treach | doh.. if it segfaults, it's found. | 15:40 |
| treach | forget I said anything | 15:40 |
| teliti | yeah: # firefox | 15:41 |
| teliti | /usr/lib/firefox/firefox-bin | 15:41 |
| teliti | it segfaults after this in the same function | 15:41 |
| teliti | /usr/lib/firefox/firefox-bin: error while loading shared libraries: libmozjs.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory aha! | 15:42 |
| treach | that's just java | 15:42 |
| teliti | treach: I need some hope! :-) | 15:43 |
| treach | hehe, ok. | 15:43 |
| treach | well, it should be there.. | 15:43 |
| treach | does it exist? | 15:44 |
| teliti | yes: /usr/lib/firefox/libmozjs.so | 15:45 |
| treach | ok, then there's something worth looking into | 15:45 |
| pedja | does FF still need /usr/lib/firefox added to /etc/ld.so.conf? | 15:47 |
| treach | no | 15:47 |
| teliti | no, ive already checked ... | 15:47 |
| teliti | theres not much hope left - I'll better have a beer! | 15:47 |
| teliti | cheers! | 15:47 |
| rehabdoll | now thats how you deal with problems! | 15:48 |
| rehabdoll | i would too, but im out of beer and got work tomorrow :( | 15:48 |
| teliti | its friday evening and ... well, I also have to work tomorrow, but in the afternoon *g* | 15:48 |
| teliti | I give up for this evening! thx for your help all, see ya next time! and have a nice weekend | 15:51 |
| treach | hm.. apparently it could be some permission problem in /dev/. | 15:51 |
| teliti | hmmm | 15:51 |
| teliti | ? | 15:51 |
| treach | Trying to find out more. You don't happen to have a screwed up /dev/null btw? | 15:52 |
| teliti | well, its still there: crw-rw-rw- 1 root root 1, 3 Feb 15 20:23 /dev/null | 15:52 |
| treach | ok, just wondering, since some ports tend to change it to a file. :) | 15:53 |
| teliti | I will try to find the problem tomorrow, this evening is to nice to spend more time in firefox *g* | 15:54 |
| teliti | see ya! | 15:54 |
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| treach | see you | 15:54 |
| treach | damn that error bothers me. :/ | 15:54 |
| * RedShift zzz | 16:04 | |
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| SiFuh_ | so freaking hard to get a ticket to bolivia | 19:44 |
| SiFuh_ | from south east asia | 19:44 |
| cruxbot | xfce.git: xfce4-mailwatch-plugin: New port. | 19:48 |
| cruxbot | xfce.git: xfce4-mailwatch-plugin: Added meta Group. | 19:54 |
| cruxbot | xfce.git: xfce4-clipman-plugin: New port. | 19:56 |
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| cruxbot | xfce.git: xfce4-artwork: New port. | 20:11 |
| cruxbot | xfce.git: libmpd: New port. | 20:22 |
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| cruxbot | xfce.git: xfmpc: New port. | 20:51 |
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| cruxbot | xfce.git: ristretto: Updated 0.0.15 -> 0.0.16 | 21:08 |
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| prologic | nipuL, thanks for the patch | 22:35 |
| prologic | teK, today :) | 22:36 |
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| Romster | evening all. | 23:54 |
| predatorfreak | Romster: Damn it! You're back from eating people already? | 23:55 |
| Romster | hehe | 23:55 |
| Romster | i was asleep << | 23:55 |
| Romster | geting ready for the night << | 23:55 |
| predatorfreak | Romster: Riiiight | 23:55 |
| Romster | i really did my neck the other day on my pillow somehow and it's really sore.. | 23:56 |
| predatorfreak | Romster: It's okay, we all know your secret :P | 23:56 |
| Romster | lol | 23:56 |
| Romster | hmm predatorfreak since your in ipt maybe you can throw your oggvorbis port in there? | 23:58 |
| Romster | opt* | 23:58 |
| predatorfreak | Romster: Don't maintain vorbis. | 23:59 |
| predatorfreak | Romster: I can throw it in contrib | 23:59 |
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