IRC Logs for #crux Friday, 2008-02-15

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pitillogood morning01:02
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pitilloRomster, I made a step ahead about port develop enviroment. I like the idea of safe-build script but I was thinking in using a VM instead of a chroot.01:06
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Romsterpitillo, whice VM do you prefer to use?01:26
Romsteri have qemu here i've not tryed virtualbox and i don't have vmware.01:26
pitilloI have only tried qemu once in windows to run puppy, here I always use virtualbox. About vmware I never used it.01:30
pitilloI am trying to make a little script to keep a base system clean. The idea born from cptn's dep-remove script. Now I am trying to do an idea told by cptn.01:31
Romsteri see.01:32
Romsterany reason to prefer a VM over a chroot?01:32
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pitillowell, my first thought was using a develop machine to keep it always clean and with an updated base (core). I prefer to don't mix my system with a chroot and test my ports under this base. (with chroot can be done too, but with good computers I prefer to use a clean and minimal VM to do this)01:34
pitilloI think this is another way to go, another choice01:35
pitillopersonally I feel more confortable under a fresh install over a chroot enviroment01:35
pitilloI was asking my self how maintainers build/package/test ports01:36
pitilloand I only saw 3 ways to go: 1 VM with a fresh install, 2 chroot, 3 dedicated computer01:37
Romstera chroot is a fresh install.01:37
pitilloyeah, it can be more that a fresh install too01:37
Romsterhow i was doing it and safe-build has a backup and restore of ports.01:37
Romsterit didn't rely on anything of the existing system.01:37
pitillolooking to your script you give choices to the user to use or don't their ports01:37
Romsterthink of chroot for VM01:37
pitilloyes, that was what sepen told me yesterday01:38
Romsteryeah i did that for a reason.01:38
RomsterVM just adds more abstraction i don't think is needed in this case.01:38
Romsternot like we are cross compiling for another machine type.01:39
pitillothat's tru01:39
pitillo*true01:39
Romstera VM might be a bit more secure too.01:39
Romsterbut building ports is pretty safe IMO.01:40
pitilloI think in a VM you are sure that you will not go out of it , btwthe little script I am doing can be used in a chroot enviroment too,01:40
Romsteri need to incorperate fakeroot into dafe-build too.01:40
Romstersafe-build*01:40
pitilloyeah, in a chroot enviroment there is no problem "a priori" to go out of it, but really I feel more confortable under a VM enviroment01:41
Romsterthat script can be sued anywhere really.01:41
Romsterhmmz01:41
Romstershould i make a option to use a chroot or VM?01:41
pitillo(if I had another computer I would use it to develop there, this is the best choice IMO)01:41
Romstera chroot does what i want though.01:42
pitilloummm I think you are "making a little VM" with your script, I this it isn't needed IMO01:42
Romsterthink of it as chroot jails there is a kernel side way of doing that to run as many virtual machines on the one system too.01:44
Romsteri've jsut done it as user side.01:44
Romsteri haven't tryed virtual box, wonder if it is any better than qemu.01:45
pitilloyes, and I think it's a good job, growing bit by bit.01:45
pitilloI tell you this because I know you were working on this kind of idea and I think sharing opinions about them, can be a good way to learn (for me)01:46
Romsterit is.01:46
pitillowell, for me it's very easy to use, graphical interface and good support (I only had problems trying to virtualize *bsd)01:47
pitillobtw, I want to know how people (and more core devs) how do their job, to make minimal and clean ports01:48
Romsteri actually think they use a VM or they don't at all.01:48
pitilloI am not sure about01:48
pitillofor me seems that there isn't a standard way to test ports under a fresh and minimal crux install, that is why I want to know about01:49
Romsterthere isn't any procedure.02:09
Romsteras far as i know but i plan to move all my port building to a chroot or maybe a VM if i see a need too.02:09
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DarkNekroshi everybody ;)02:12
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Romsterhi DarkNekros02:14
pitilloRomster, that is my point, I think packaging in a clean and minimal enviroment is the way to go to build good ports (we have good tools provided by prt-utils and system to make sure about this), but that is only my opinion (I am not a developer and I haven't too much knowledge)02:14
pitillolo DarkNekros02:14
Romsterwell i'd like to build ports confinded to core and depends on line.02:19
Romsteranything aditional would use the warn on new files footprint missmatch if it gets accepted.02:20
Romsterso all ports would be minimal dependencys but would use other ports if present at build time.02:20
Romsterso a port should never have a missing file ever in it's footprint only new files if there is aditional ports installed.02:21
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pitilloRomster, I am looking for that too.02:51
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pitilloRomster, I don't know if you can see this usefull, if you can, take a look to it and I hope you can give me a opinion or comments http://lokalix.dyndns.org/crux/files/clean-system03:54
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cruxbotcontrib.git: lm_sensors: updated to 3.0.104:04
cruxbotcontrib.git: i2c-tools: initial import04:04
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cruxbotcontrib.git: net-snmp: updated to 5.4.1-2 (added patch for lm_sensors v3, removed sendmail MIB)04:29
mike_kcruxbot: nice boy04:33
treachcruxbot++04:34
treach:p04:34
sepenmike_k, nice! lm_sensors04:34
cruxbotcontrib.git: jnettop: Added missing dependency 'glib'. Thanks pitillo.04:43
sepenpitillo, xD04:43
pitilloxD04:43
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cruxbotcore.git: xfsprogs: update to 2.9.606:46
RedShiftsupermicro++06:47
RedShiftawesome brand06:47
RedShiftI should work at that company06:47
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treachor they should pay you for your constant advertising.06:48
cruxbotopt.git: vsftpd: update to 2.0.606:49
RedShifttreach: yes, they should06:49
RedShiftbut I mean come on, their hardware is great, the BIOSes are perfect, support is great06:49
RedShift"the best a man can get"06:49
treachyou got that wrong I think. :>06:50
RedShiftthat's why I quoted it06:50
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Romstercat RedShift > /dev/null :P07:33
RomsterRedShift, is it me or do you advertise alot..07:33
RedShiftI do?07:34
Romsterit's either some great web hosting server or something.07:36
Romsterand you don't even use crux. *shrugs*07:37
cruxbotcore.git: findutils: updated to 4.2.33.07:37
Romsterhmm more updates i thnk i'll hold off untill later to update..07:37
trimoin07:38
Romsterhi tri07:40
tilmanRomster: was that a guess, or do you know some german? :]07:43
Romstera guess.07:44
tri:-)07:44
Romstermoin looks close enough to morning.07:45
Romsterand 'good morning' is common, so it's a greeting.07:46
Romsteri only know a few words of german.07:46
treachLingustic RE. :p07:46
Romstermainly from listening to german metal bands.07:46
treachLinguistic* dammit..07:47
Romsterlol.07:47
treachI've put my glasses somewhere. :/07:47
Romstertreach, for someone that isn't a native english speaker, you sure are picky on spelling.07:47
Romstertreach, ah that's not good.07:48
treachRomster: I'm a germanic person. We're all pedantic, militaristic, stiff bastards ;)07:48
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Romsterah.07:50
Rotwang;]07:51
triyes, thats true :-)07:55
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tilmanRomster: what bands? rammstein?07:59
Romstertilman, yeah rammstein and a few others that i've recently found out there german.08:00
Romsteri don't know of many and i'd like to find more. i barely understand the lyrics of the songs but there cool music.08:00
Rotwangtokio hotel!08:01
sepentilman, waken openair fest?08:01
tilmanwhat about it? :p08:02
RomsterIron Savior is german too.08:02
sepentilman, nope this year I want to goƧ08:02
sepen*go08:02
Romsterand so is 666 but that's dance/techno08:02
sepennice copyleft site too http://www.electrobel.be08:03
sepenand many downloads08:03
tilmanRomster: bah, power metal ;D08:04
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Romstertilman,  yes <<08:07
Romsterpower, speed, thrash, christen metal i'm really into.08:08
Romsterprobbably other styles too many to think of.08:08
* treach puts on Violin concerto in D major by Johannes Brahms08:11
Romsterheh08:12
Romsteractually i like some clasical too.08:12
tilmansleepwalk - hackerstate (dos-attack remix by sitd)08:12
Romsterrofl.08:13
tilmanw/ a ._o quote from 'hackers' ._o08:13
Romsteri've oftern wondered what happend to *.com files being like *.exe's08:14
tilmanthey aren't, they never were08:14
Romstercommand.com08:14
tilmancommand.com isn't a com, it's an exe08:14
Romsterhmm08:14
Romsteri'll yank out my dos disks one day..08:15
tilmanPE assumably08:15
tilmanpresumably08:15
Romsteri'm sure it's .com08:15
treachcomfiles are only similar to exe files in that they are executeable08:15
Romsteryes08:15
Romsteri'm guessing .com is some type of old 286/386 memory mode runing or something.08:16
treachhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COM_files08:16
Romstera older format that got phased out.08:16
tilmancom: exactly one segment, so <= 64 kb of code08:16
tilmanyou just execute it (jmp teh_code). i think08:17
treach"it contains no metadata, only code and data, and is loaded at offset 0x0100 of some segment and executed. Because of how the segmentation model works, there is no need for relocation. "08:17
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Romsterah right and lol at the fact windows will prefer a com file over a exe08:21
Romsterwonder if vista still does too.08:22
tilmani think i've read that vista doesn't support COM files anymore08:22
treachis that possible?08:22
tilmanblogs.msdn.com/oldnewthing had an article on com/exe crap08:22
Romsteri'm gonan have to test that on my brother vista box one day.08:22
Romstergonna*08:23
Romsteronly thing is all my .com files eb too old..08:23
tilmanexplaining why 'mv crap.whatever crap.exe && crap.exe' gives 'ziomg cannot run executable'08:23
treachsounds unlikely actually, since backwards compatibility basically is the only thing MS got going for them at this point..08:23
Romsteri'm sure i could still drop into dos mode on vista and still do a few tricks with commands.08:24
Romsteralthough dos never had the power of bash.08:24
tilmanRomster: you know Kreator, right?08:25
Romstertilman, yes08:25
tilmangood :D08:25
sepenand tankard08:25
sepenhehe08:25
RomsterBringer Of Torture <<08:25
treachHelloween!08:26
* treach takes cover08:26
sepenmy favourity band on these years ----> carcass08:26
sepenkeep on rothing on the free world08:26
sepenxD08:26
tilmanrotting ;)08:26
sepenyea08:26
Romsterlmao08:26
tilmani actually don't know their final album... except black star08:26
tilmanheartwork ftw of course :D08:27
Romsterhardly got any of kreator actually.08:27
Romsterits' my type of style of metal.08:27
tilmanRomster: their 2003 album 'live kreation' might be a good start08:28
sepenheartwork really rokcs08:28
sepen*rocks08:28
Romstertilman, ah k08:29
sepenManOwaR -:- Kings of Metal08:29
treachrofl.08:29
Romstersepen, <<08:29
sepenajja08:29
tilman/ignore sepen08:29
tilman\o08:29
sepen\/o08:29
Romstertilman, Voices Of The Dead i love that song.08:29
tilmanyeah, it's nice08:30
Romsternow the guirtars and and everything is ideal metal.08:30
Romsternot like some of the crap they make thesedays.08:30
Romstertilman, actaully i'm looking up more kreator that song rocks,.08:31
tilman'coma of souls' (1990) is a classic. their 2001 come back album 'violent revolution' is great, too08:32
tilmanbetween 90 and 2001 they mostly released mediocre stuff i think08:33
Romsteri got some mixtapes of some awesome stuff i should throw on my pc, jsut wish i knew the artists.08:36
Romsterinsansely fast guitars.08:36
Romsterdoign the clasical scale.08:37
Romsterdoing*08:37
Romsternot all of it is heavy singing.08:37
sepenguys, did you have 'fretsonfire' on your boxes?08:37
Romstersome was more iron maden,saxton, metal church style.08:37
Romsternope.08:37
sependid you read about how its?08:38
sepenopensource guitar-hero like08:38
treachRomster: that should be "saxon"08:39
Romsterah sorry my typo.08:39
tilmani only know panzerchrist's cover of metal church :D08:39
Romsterheh08:39
Romsterblind gurdian <<08:40
treach>.<08:40
tilmanblind gordian knot?08:40
Romsterknot?08:40
tilmann/m08:41
Romsteri don't mind "Enter Shikari"08:43
Romstertakes a little geting used too though.08:43
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* Romster plays in flames - bullet ride08:46
Romsteroh yeah and "Nevermore" rule too. wish i could find out what them artists are on these mix tapes i recorded off the air many years ago.08:49
tilmantried googling the lyrics?08:57
Romsterthats a thought some but not all i shoudl try doing that again.08:58
Romstershould*08:58
Romsterhell where is that tape i'm gonna go looking now <<09:03
Romstersuprised my tape player even works i've nto used it in years lol...09:05
Romsternot*09:05
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Romsternow this song is odd metal and rap combined.09:06
Romsterin a punk style.09:06
tilmanlimp bizkit? :p09:07
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Romsterhell no..09:17
Romsteri did identify one song Mortification09:17
Romstermaybe if i look in the same era..09:17
Romsterwtf Australian band too..09:18
Romsterthat i didn't know.09:18
treach"99 (empty) bottles of beer"? :p09:18
treachs/bottles/cans/ I guess. :>09:19
tilmanhehe09:19
Romsterholly fuck i found another of the songs.09:39
Romstergalactic cowboys09:39
treach"holly fuck"? Is that some pr0n actress?09:39
RomsterO_o09:40
treachAfaik, "Holly" is a name.09:40
Romsterit's a slang saying.09:40
Romsteras in red dwarf's computer holly09:41
tilmantreach: ;))09:41
Romstermayeb i was ment to say holely09:41
Romstermaybe*09:41
treachx_x09:41
Romsteranyways my english is shit ya know that.09:42
treachthe word is "Holy"09:42
Romsterah.09:42
RomsterGalactic Cowboys was a christian heavy metal band based in Houston, Texas. They combined progressive metal with a style of vocals influenced by The Beatles and the heavy playing style of thrash bands such as Anthrax. They have been described as "possibly the most melodic metal band ever to exist in Christian or general markets09:44
RomsterO_o09:44
RomsterThe Beatles...09:44
treachthe beatless?09:45
treach:p09:45
Romsternah09:45
Romsterlol..09:45
treachI always thoght that would be a great name for a satire band or something. :P09:46
sepenhttp://www.hs-guitarshop.de/09:48
sepencustom guitars09:48
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Romsterhmm i think i found another band "Living Sacrifice"09:57
sepenRomster, I have a new repoverify version with some new features09:57
sepenhttp://rafb.net/p/X976yt10.html09:59
Romsteri'm having fun finding some artists off lyrics off this tape i got.09:59
Romstertilman, "Living Sacrifice (1991) - Internal Unrest" is one of them songs i've been looking for...10:01
Romsternow it might be easier to find that really long solo song i got.10:01
tilman:)10:01
tilmannp: edguy - sacrifice10:01
Romsterman i'm so gonna go hit the music shop sometime and order some cd's10:01
tilmanthat's another german power metal band btw10:01
Romstersweet i'll check that out.10:02
tilmannot "true" shit like helloween etc though10:02
tilman:D10:02
Romsterhehe10:03
* treach hums "some people are much to smart, they know everything before it starts"10:03
treachs/to/too10:03
Romsterman this song is a slower and screaming type voice i dunno how people can understand the lyrics.10:05
Romsterit's like mild black metal singing in a lower key.10:05
Romsteraha now this is that long song... i must find10:06
Romstercrap this is a tough one...10:09
Romsterhmm i should record it and see if tilman might have an idea <<10:15
Romsterthis one song has wicked guitar solos..10:15
tilmanif it's obscure bands from the early 90s i dunno whether i can help much :P10:18
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Romsterthis looks close http://www.lyricstime.com/virgin-steele-a-cry-in-the-night-lyrics.html10:21
Romsterbut isn't the song..10:21
Romstersome where in 89-92 or something i'd say.10:24
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Romsterdang it's still eluding me.10:32
Romsteri don't think it's that obscure.10:32
tilmanoggenc -q 3 and upload it10:33
tilmani'll give it a listening10:33
Romsterk10:33
Romsteri'll throw it though my tascam tape player to my pc <<10:33
Romsterproblem is i need to move the darn thing..10:34
Romsterfinally got sound on line in.. now to record.10:43
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sepenjaeger, did you known http://www.gnome.org/projects/brasero/10:51
jaegersepen: I've heard of it, haven't tried it yet10:52
sepenok, it seems that uses the same libraries that xfburn10:52
sepenand also this, (if you're interested) http://mikeux.dyndns.org/crux/logs/old/repoverify-gnome.log10:54
jaegeryeah, I know it's fairly messy10:56
sepenthereis the old report10:56
sepenthe new ones don't can be filtered by log level10:56
sepenalso I think Ill need a blacklist for mirrors (download.gnome.org included)10:57
mike_kRomster: real Tascam thing?11:10
* mike_k goes and shoots himself11:10
Romsteryes i haev a tascam model 102 tape player <<11:11
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tilmanhahah11:11
Romsteruploading now.11:11
Romsteryeah it's a ripepr of a player shame it's the old days of tapes now.11:12
tilmanhttp://www.phantomprod.com/vinTascamBR20Tb.jpg ?11:12
Romsterwish i had got myself a 4 track rel to reel.11:12
Romsternah not that.. wish i had something like that though.11:13
tilmanwhy? :p11:13
* sepen Playing fear_factory/transgression/01 - 540,000 Degrees Fahrenheit.mp311:14
Romsterbecause they have a awesome sound.11:14
tilmanmmhk11:16
tilmanwhen i was a kid we had a track thing like that standing in the living room11:16
tilmanofc it was never used ;)11:16
Romsteri can't beleave i can't find a picture of this model...11:18
Romsterdang.11:18
Romsterhttp://romster.shortcircuit.net.au/tmp/what_artist_and_song_is_this.ogg11:19
Romsterif anyone can find me that i'd be grateful.11:19
tilmanq3? ;)11:19
Romsteryes11:19
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tilmanstill 5 mb ._,11:20
Romsteris that what you encode all your songs at?11:20
tilmanofc not11:20
Romsterit's a long song.11:20
tilmanbut it should do for a radio capture ;)11:20
Romsterradio to tape to pc.11:20
Romsterso it's not perfect i'd love to get the albums but if i only knew.11:21
tilmannp: edguy - return to the tribe11:21
tilmanapart from the guitar solo that's actually *sung* it's a cool song11:21
Romsterah.11:21
tilmanhehe11:21
Romsteryou might think wtf at that song but *shrugs*11:22
tilmani crowd surfed when that band played at a festival in ... 06. i was a bit drunk ;)11:22
Romsterlol11:22
Romsteri'm glad i found some of the other songs so i'll go and visit the music shop with a order and hope i can get them albums in.11:25
Romsterall the bands i've seen have nearly all been covers.11:27
Romstersome i've worked with airbourne, john butler trio, shane out of the band goanna11:27
Romsterah yes and the origional dadid edings that sang school girl in acdc, he toured with a acdc cover band for a few shows.11:28
Romsterand i saw queen.11:28
Romstercan't think of much else...11:28
Romsteral the rest cover bands.11:28
Romsterpresst sad arn't it.11:29
Romsteroh yeah i met rose tatoo in person and stewie wood otu of the giants.11:29
tilman"worked with?"11:29
Romsterout*11:29
Romsteryes worked with sound and lighting professional audio11:29
Romsteri used todo sound mixing but i gave it up the boss was a arsehole.11:30
Romsterpubs and out doors some halls.11:30
tilmani see11:30
Romsternot a over big rig about 6000watts rms11:30
Romsterof front of house speakers 20,000watts of lighting.11:31
sepen#crux-live today11:31
Romsterbetween that and being a electronics tech i ended up fising things when needed11:31
Romstersepen, heh11:31
sepen:)11:32
Romsteri'd probabbly be rust at sound mixing now :/11:32
Romstermaybe one day i'll get back into it.11:32
Romsterwould love todo a huge production.11:32
Romsterbig day out or something.11:33
Romsterno idea if i'll ever.11:33
Romster12 years expeareance in that field.11:33
Romsterand more with music itself.11:33
Romsteri was better at that than i am at comptuer programming <<11:34
Romstercomputer*11:34
Romsterjsut everything about sound and lighting and not to overload all the circuits with too many items.11:35
Romstersome shows we had like 4 or so cables to run everything.11:36
Romstermost of the bands where good too.11:36
Romstergot a few crappy ones out of key here and there, i can so pick that stuff.11:36
Romsterknow about harmonics, phase distortion speed of sound, refelections in rooms, you name it, all the stuff msot text books don't tell you.11:38
Romsterand if they do there vauge on the topics.11:38
Romsteri think i bored the channel now lol.11:38
Romsterok coffee time so i shutup <<11:39
tilmanRomster: no, i was afk ;)11:40
Romsterah that's ok <<11:40
tilmanRomster: how's your hearing? :)11:40
Romsteramazingly very good despite very loud noise levels.11:40
* tilman messed up his left ear at some festival :x11:40
tilmanmmh11:40
Romsteri can here frequencys that a teenanger can hear11:41
Romsterdamn11:41
Romstereven that ring tone that adults shouldn't be able to hear it i can hear it easily and i'm 30yo...11:41
Romsteri can't explain it.11:41
Romsteri can easily pick when a tv is on for it 15.625KHz tone they emit.11:42
tilmano_O11:42
Romsterfor PAL tv's here anyways.11:42
Romsteri could be in another room and provind it's not too much background noise i can hear a tv whissle in another room.11:43
Romsterprovided*11:43
joacimso can i11:43
joacimbut im 22 =)11:43
tilmanwhat's the threshold for the (adult) human ear again? ~30 khz?11:43
Romsterand this is after i've been around lound music...11:44
Romsterhighist frequency for a adouly be like 16KHz11:44
Romsteradult*11:44
tilmanlol, i was slightly off11:44
Romsterbut i can hear i think nearly to 20-21KHz11:44
joacimhttp://www.roger-russell.com/hearing/hearing.htm11:44
Romsterbats emit 40KHz not sure what dogs can hear upto.11:45
Romsterbut them woofer stopers use piezos and they work upto 38KHz11:45
tilmanhehe, edguy is so cheesy on the later albums11:47
Romsterheh11:47
Romsterso tilman any idea of that artist/song?11:50
tilmanlistening to11:51
tilmanit now11:51
Romsterthreshold you'd be thinking of the db scale as in intensity?11:51
Romsterk11:51
tilmani meant the max. freq that an adult can hear11:51
Romsterah11:52
tilmanlol you SUCK at googling lyrics11:52
tilmanfirst try, first hit, *match*11:52
Romsteri wasn't sure if you confused your terms.11:52
Romsterwhat... i typed in a shit load of keywords..11:52
tilmani typed in the first words i understood :P11:53
tilmanhttp://www.google.com/search?q=%22the%20devil%20she%20will%20hold%2211:53
tilmanfugly vocals imo :D11:54
Romsterlol.11:54
Romsteryeah it's diferent note that's not wha ti always listen too.11:55
treachhuman hearing is usually rated between 2Hz to ~23kHz, iirc.11:55
Romsterjustone of then naging songs i've been trying to find and man if i typed the frist line on it's own i might of got that...11:55
Romstersomething like that treach11:55
Romsterbut at 2Hz you feel it more than hear it.11:56
treachftr, I can hear the tv too, god damned annoying.11:56
Romsteryeah they are11:56
Romsteri can't belave it tilman gts it in one sentance and i've tryed countless lines grr <<11:57
tilman:D :D11:57
Romstermaybe my problem was lack of quotes.11:58
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Romsterthanks for that tilman11:58
tilmanyw11:58
Romsterlearned to use quotes more oftern.12:01
Romsteri've found other bands around that era too so i can probbably find that other style of music that isn't like that song <<12:02
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tilmanhehe, this RE business is fun12:12
Romstermessing with RE's now <<12:13
tilmanit's great to look up certain opcodes that they use, and finding that 'the art of asm programming' says the are "ancient" or somesuch12:13
tilmanor rarely used or something12:13
Romsterisn't * ment to match everything i've had todo [a-zA-Z0-9-._]*12:13
tilman"archaic" was the term they used :D12:14
Romsterah12:14
tilman* means zero or more times12:14
tilman. matches any single character12:14
Romsterah so [.]*12:15
Romsteror just .*12:15
tilman:D12:15
Romsterhmm12:15
treachwildcards are fun. :/12:15
Romsteri thought . was a single space match and a \. to match a dot ah well... i'll edit my RE's again and test.12:16
Romsterisnt there also [:alpha:] etc for sed too?12:16
Romsteri never did find that stuff.12:16
Romsterman page is huge.12:16
treachsometimes a single char is $, and sometimes * is any char, but only matches the next five chars..12:16
tilmanwell, there's a bunch of different RE standards12:16
tilman[:alpha:] might be posix RE12:17
Romster$ is end of line though.12:17
treachRomster: depends on which system you're on..12:17
tilmaneg: \d only works in perl (and similiar implementations), in gnu you have to use [:digit:]12:17
Romsterdang how many RE variations are there.12:17
tilman^$ work everywhere (even on .net :D)12:17
Romsteri've greped out lines out of http <<12:18
tilmantreach: what weird system uses $ for a single char? ._O12:18
Romsteralthough i need a safer way with htmltidy or something.12:18
tilmanmaybe you should just use perl or ruby or python12:18
treachtilman: it's not RE as such, but iirc DOS does that12:18
tilmandos... ;)12:19
treachindeed12:19
treach_always_ assbackwards..12:19
tilmanmov ah, 0xdead12:19
tilmanint 2112:19
treach0xbeef12:19
tilmansanity check passed12:20
* jjpk fires up grill12:20
jjpkBBQ time.12:20
tilmanmmh, that reminds me i need to do mov mouth, food12:21
tilmana steak would be nice now ;)12:21
Romsterhehe12:22
Romsterso int 21h, time <<12:22
Romsterdos did things oddly.12:22
Romsterwhat amazes me is the dll files from one compiler can work with a program compiled from a diferent compiler12:23
tilmanofc it does12:24
tilmanbecause both compilers implement the ABI for the system12:24
treachmv me, 0xtable ;)12:25
Romsterah.12:25
tilmanbase 36?12:25
Romsterthat's it they maintian the ABI while linux dosn't?12:26
Romsteror something.12:26
Romsteri reas reading in reactos about some chat awhile ago.12:26
Romsterstill wondering what ever uses octal anymore.12:26
tilmanRomster: you're thinking of the internal kernel api12:26
Romsterah yes.12:26
tilmanapi = app programming interface12:26
tilmanabi = app binary interface12:26
tilmanabi includes things like how function arguments are passed, whether the caller or the callee clean up the stack on return etc12:27
Romsterah.12:27
Romsterso the api can difer but the abi must remain the same.12:27
Romsteror something like that of course the lib and program need matching api functionally too, but added api calls don't interfear with a program that dosn't call them.12:28
tilmansomething like that, yeah12:28
Romsterright i really had myself confused.12:29
Romsteri did know the terms but i wasn't sure what exactly abi did. other than it was important with the compiler.12:30
Romsteri'm gonna get me some food <<12:30
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clickonceGuys, in my lspci output I have one nVidia card at 01:00.0 but I know I have two cards in my machine. (Onboard and AGP). In BIOS I have the option to set which one is used for booting, the two options are: "PCI" or "Onboard/AGP", does that mean the onboard card is a AGP card and that it is disabled completely when another AGP card is inserted? In other words, I'm screwed getting two monitors if I don't get a PCI card?12:54
treachI'd guess they mean Onboard OR agp with that.12:55
treachbut who knows12:56
clickonceOkay, though I wonder where my onboard card is in the lspci output.12:58
Romsteri'd say on board agp is disabled with a add on agp card.12:58
clickonceIt's an i810 Intel onboard crap thing.12:58
treachif it's disabled in bios it shouldn't show up.12:58
Romsteryou can get a dual output agp card anyways12:58
clickoncetreach: I haven't disabled anything in BIOS, I can't even find anything about disabling cards either.12:59
treachugh12:59
treachclickonce: ok, sorry for wasting your bandwidth. :)12:59
Romsterthis nvidia 760gs has 2 outputs plus rgb/svhs/composate.12:59
clickoncetreach: whoa?13:00
treachI generally try to stay as far away from built in crap as possible.13:00
clickonceWell, I wouldn't like to buy a new card for this machine.13:00
Romsterclickonce, as soon as you plug in a video card in the agp slot it'll disable on board, unless it has a funky bios.13:00
treachclickonce: don't worry about that13:00
clickonceI've gotten it to work dual-head with a PCI card though.13:00
Romsteryeah as that dosn't disable the on board video as your not using the agp slot..13:01
clickonceDamn cheap crap thing.13:01
Romstermakes perfect sense.13:01
RedShifttreach: Intel's G33 is certainly not bad :-)13:01
Romsteravoid onboard video at all costs.13:02
treachRedShift: built in stuff is crap by definition13:02
clickonceRomster: Kinda sucks of the manufacturer to not let the user configure it.13:02
RedShiftunless you're going for gaming, onboard video cards are just fine13:02
Romsterclickonce, yeah cheaply done using the agp socket.13:02
treachuntil they break, or you get some other problems from it13:02
RedShiftthese days they even come with DVI or even HDMI13:02
clickoncetreach: OnBoard ethernet as well?13:02
treachclickonce: heh, hard to avoid these days. :/13:02
clickonceYeah.13:03
Romsteron board eithernet is fine13:03
tilmanmy builtin nic works great13:03
tilman(sky2 on a nforce 5)13:03
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RedShiftonboard ethernet is fine but onboard video is not? :\13:03
Romsterjust video i'd avoid unless you don't need a high powered gpu13:03
tilmans/great/good enough/13:03
treachtilman: I would still prefer my intel pro 100.. :D13:03
Romsternext ya will say on board sata isn't fine..13:03
clickonceToo bad I've thrown away all old PCI cards I've had lying around.13:03
tilmantreach: i realy meant: it suffices for my lowly needs13:03
tilmani mainly talk to my router ;)13:04
RedShifttreach: I've tested both the forcedeth and sky2, and performance is nearly identical on my e1000 card13:04
RedShiftthe forcedeth showed a bit higher CPU usage, but that was fixed by a module argument13:04
treachRedShift: sure, but I'd trust the drivers for the intel card more than the reverse engineered stuff for the forcedeth..13:04
tilmanthese days nvidia folks contribute to forcedeth13:05
tilmanso i doubt it's that bad a hackjob :)13:05
RedShiftugh I've seen complaints about the e1000 being one piece of crap13:05
tilmans/folks/one guy/ maybe, but who cares13:05
RedShiftintel was affraid releasing the specs because then the world would really see how bad they are13:06
RedShiftsure the e100 chipset is great13:06
RedShiftthe e1000 is another story13:06
clickonceI got an onboard e1000.13:06
treachRedShift: also, to go back to the point wrt built in graphics/ethernet; built in ethernet usually IME is much easier to disable and completly forget about than built in graphics.13:08
RedShiftugh the motherboards I use have a jumper to disable the onboard graphics13:08
RedShiftI'm not going to name the brand I use or Romster will start complaining again :D13:09
Romsteri don't agree with built in sound but most inboult sound these days is reasonable.13:09
treachyeah, guess what, not everyone have the same mainboards..13:09
tilmanthe ones which cost 1337% more than consumer hardware?13:09
Romsterlol..13:09
RedShifttilman: only 50% more than the average high end consumer hardware13:09
* clickonce needs two quad PCIe ethernet cards13:09
clickonceI'm a subnet freak :)13:09
RomsterO_o13:09
Romstergawd...13:09
Romsteri was gonna say what's wrong with a switch..13:10
treachvirtual interfaces. ;)13:10
clickonceMy soon to be router/firewall has 3 ports... and it isn't possible to expand it.13:10
RedShiftclickonce: that's why they invented VLANs so you don't need that many ethernet ports...13:10
Romstermine only has 2.13:10
clickoncetreach: I've been thinking about that, but, would it be possible to configure a L2/L3 manageable switch to include one particular port in more than one VLAN?13:11
RedShiftif that port is tagged ofcourse13:11
RedShiftyou can send multiple tagged VLANs over a port13:11
RedShiftbut you can have only one untagged VLAN on a port13:11
clickonceBut, traffic from one VLAN wouldn't jump to another VLAN without going through the router then?13:11
RedShiftyes13:12
RedShiftthat's kinda the point of VLANs :D13:12
RedShiftuse vconfig to configure VLANs on an interface13:12
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clickonceSo if port 0 is connected to the router, port 1-5 is one VLAN and port 6-10 is one, if a computer on say port 3 sends a packet to a computer on another vlan it woull first go to the switch, out on port 0 to the router, back to the switch and out on the other vlan?13:14
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treach"router on a stick"13:14
clickonce?13:15
treachgoogle it13:15
RedShiftclickonce: kind of, but the router will map the packet to the right vlan13:15
RedShiftthe switch won't13:15
clickonceRedShift: Which is what I want, so if I disconnect the router the packets won't reach the destination vlan.13:16
RedShiftyes13:16
clickonceApparently I need a switch that supports it as well.13:16
RedShifthave you worked with 802.1q VLANs before?13:16
RedShiftthey can be confusing at first13:17
clickonceI haven't worked with VLANs at all before. I have a managed layer 2 switch, but it's broken somehow. I've tried creating a few VLANs on it and connected a router, etc, etc. Thing is, a computer on one vlan can talk to another computer on another vlan just by going through the switch (with the router disconnected).13:18
RedShifthow old is the switch?13:18
clickonce1.5U 3Com SuperStack II 330013:18
RedShiftthere's generally two types of VLANs, private VLANs and 802.1q VLANs13:18
RedShiftthey are both different13:19
clickonceMakes the noise of a Boeing 747 when connected to the wall.13:19
RedShifthmm that's quite an old switch13:19
RedShiftI don't think those have support for 802.1q VLANs13:19
RedShiftlet me look, I have a switch from that eara13:20
clickonceOkay..13:20
RedShiftugh the fans are broken13:25
clickonceBtw, what is the mknod parameters for /dev/eth0? I can't find the info on google.13:25
RedShiftwhat?13:25
RedShift /dev/eth0??13:25
RedShiftthat shouldn't exist13:26
RedShiftwhy would you need that anyway?13:26
SiFuh_Romster: my condolences13:26
clickonceNetwork access?13:26
treach /dev/eth0 ceased to exist may years ago..13:26
treachclickonce: there haven't been a /dev/eth0 since 2.2.x, possibly even 2.0.x13:27
clickonceHmm, okay, I recall having it quite recently..13:27
luxh:D13:27
RedShiftugh what's this things IP address again13:28
RedShiftgot it13:28
RedShiftit only has private VLANs13:29
clickonceRedShift: What is a private VLAN compared to 802.1q?13:29
RedShiftprivate VLANs is like chopping up your switch in different switches13:30
RedShiftone ports in the same VLAN can exchange frames13:30
RedShift*only ports...13:30
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RedShiftif you want inter-vlan communication you have to make a bridge between them13:30
clickonceYeah, well, that's how I have setup this switch... but computers can still talk to each other even though they are in different PVLANs..13:31
RedShiftwhile 802.1q VLANs use tagging13:31
RedShifthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VLAN13:31
RedShiftugh that's not good13:31
clickonceBut, with private vlans (if they had been working on this one) I would have to connect the router to each vlan?13:32
RedShiftyes13:32
RedShiftthere's no such thing as tagging or untagging with private VLANs13:32
clickonceNow I just need to figure out the IP of this switch as well :)13:34
RedShiftIIRC those switches have console access :-)13:34
clickonceIt does have web as well :)13:35
clickonceI know it has web since that's what I used when I played with it. :)13:35
clickonceI just need to figure out the IP.13:35
RedShiftwell time to put this baby back to rest, the noise is killing me13:35
RedShiftthis year is his 10th birthday I think13:36
clickonceNice :)13:36
RedShifthttp://www.novotec.uk.com/images/ibm/8275-324.jpg13:37
clickonceThat's a cute one :)13:38
clickoncehttp://www.3com.de/presse/fotos/assets/lanswitches/ss3switch3300.jpg13:38
clickonceThat's mine.13:38
clickonceThat's a SuperStack 3 though, mine is SS213:38
RedShiftyes I've worked with those switches before13:39
RedShifton my IBM I replaced the power supply twice13:39
RedShifthttp://users.opengate.be/~glenn/album/index.php?folder=/Misc/IBM%20Switch%20repair%201/13:39
clickonceCrap :)13:39
RedShiftand the second time: http://users.opengate.be/~glenn/album/index.php?folder=/Misc/IBM%20Switch%20repair%202/13:40
clickonceWoah, same connector as computer PSU?13:40
RedShiftno13:40
RedShiftI cut off the original connector and use a bridge (or whatever you call it in english, don't know the name) to wire the cables13:41
clickonceah, okay :)13:41
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RedShiftit's mounted a bit primitive (notice the cable straps used)13:41
RedShiftbut it's quite solid, works perfectly13:41
RedShifttook some time to find a PSU that fitted13:42
RedShiftboth come from PC power supplies13:42
clickonceFound it! :) 192.168.1.5713:42
RedShiftthe processor is an AMD 486 or something :D13:42
clickonceNice :D haha13:43
RedShiftyou can't see it, it's on the other side of the top PCB13:43
RedShiftthat 3com probably has something similar13:43
clickonceHmm, I have this option on one page: 802.1Q VLAN Learning: :)13:43
clickonceSo it does have 802.1Q support :D13:43
RedShift:O13:43
RedShiftnice13:43
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RedShiftcan you set tagged and untagged for certain ports?13:44
RedShiftwhen creating a VLAN?13:44
clickonceToo bad it makes the noise of a Boeing 747 :()13:44
RedShiftor on the port properties page, can you selected to accept tagged frames?13:44
RedShiftclickonce: why you think I turned mine off :D13:44
RedShiftthe fans are kaputt13:44
RedShiftthey work but the bearings are more square than Romster13:45
clickonceIt does have buttons on the VLANs page for (Add to VLAN using 802.1Q tagging) and (Remove from VLAN 802.1Q tagged ports only)13:45
RedShiftnice :O13:45
clickonceJesus, it has this "Getting Started" wizard, it has the same colors and appearance like the Windows 95 wizards. :)13:47
RedShiftdo you know the difference between tagged and untagged?13:49
clickonceRedShift: Do you recall the factory default IP for the SS2 3300 Switch?13:49
RedShifthell no :D13:49
clickonceOkay :P13:49
RedShiftI think it even uses DHCP by default13:49
RedShiftnot sure13:49
RedShifttoo vague to remember13:49
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RedShiftI usually just manage them with the console port13:50
clickonceWell, I don't have such a cable.. and I'm too cheap to buy one.13:50
RedShiftlooks more "he's the real deal" to the other people *g*13:50
clickonce=)13:51
Romsterahem.13:52
clickonce"VLAN Setup Error! Cannot Delete VLAN"13:53
* Romster gives up flood the channel with advertising.13:53
RedShiftyou sure that's a superstack 2?13:53
RedShiftah wait13:53
RedShiftfound it :)13:53
Romsteri'll just stick RedShift on ignore if it bothers me.13:53
clickonceThe front of it says "SuperStack II" on the front :)13:54
clickonceNice, it has port trunking :)13:55
RedShiftwhat software version have you got?13:56
clickonce2.413:56
RedShifthttp://www.3com.com/products/en_US/result.jsp?selected=2&sort=effdt&order=desc&sku=3C16982-US13:57
clickonceI wonder if I can update the software.13:58
RedShiftit does have 802.1q13:58
RedShiftawesome :)13:58
RedShiftwouldn't have expected that on a switch that old13:58
clickonceWell, I got it from a hosting company when I worked there. :)13:59
RedShiftthe docs don't say what the default IP address is14:01
RedShiftonly for slip14:01
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RedShiftit may be the same though, 192.168.101.114:01
RedShiftor 192.168.100.114:01
clickonceOkay :)14:02
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clickonceLast software update is from 10 Sep 200414:03
RedShiftwell once you've resetted the switch, assign your interface an address in the 192.168.100.0/24 and use nmap to scan the network for port 80, it should turn up14:04
clickonceNice, I'll do that :)14:04
RedShiftif the default address is in the 192.168.100.0/24 range ofcourse14:05
clickonceI could just make my computer be in 192.168.0.0/16 and nmap everything :)14:06
RedShiftuh14:07
RedShiftI don't think it'll respond, you're in a different subnet then14:07
clickonceYAY! Prince and The Village People are suing The Pirate Bay. Finally.14:08
clickonceRedShift: I'll make a script going through .0.1 to .255.254 then :)14:09
treachgood luck with that.14:09
RedShiftoh well, happy networking :-)14:09
* RedShift food14:09
treachclickonce: biggest hole in the air I've ever seen. :D14:09
clickoncetreach: haha14:11
treachclickonce: It won't fly, since this isn't the US14:13
clickonceThey're going to pursue it both in Sweden and in the US14:14
treachso?14:14
clickonceI hope they win somewhere, for all I care the people behing TPB should be put away for life.14:14
luxhhaha14:14
treach"worst" case; these people will not be able to go to the us.14:14
clickonceAnd I hope to god that more artists and companies sue them as well.14:14
treachnot that I can think of a single reason to want to go there14:14
treachrofl.14:15
clickonceI do honestly hate illegal downloading. To me it's as bad as stealing.14:15
treach"think of the children!"14:15
clickonceEh?14:15
treachWhy won't anyone think of the children!"14:15
clickonceThe poor children who can't afford buying the music?14:16
jjpkZOMG. save the children!14:16
treachooooh,  the pooor, poor starving artists!14:16
treachcry me a river14:16
clickonceIt's not about the god damn money damnit. It's about the illegal downloading.14:16
tilmanthe poor poor huge record companies (which only sell crappy pop music)14:16
clickonceIt's not right to steal Coca Cola either, even if you can't afford it.14:16
treachtilman: indeed.14:16
tilmanwho says it's illegal? it's legal in sweden :)14:17
treachclickonce: get a fucking clue.14:17
sepennow its the music day14:17
clickonceWhat is legal?14:17
treachcopying is NOT stealing.14:17
tilmanfile sharing is legal in sweden (where TPB is hosted)14:17
clickoncetreach: It's still illegal and as bad as stealing.14:17
treachtilman: no, but linking is14:17
clickoncetilman: Linking is, file sharing is not.14:17
clickonceTPB only links to content, it doesn't host any.14:17
treachclickonce: well. there it is.14:17
treachthey are clear14:18
joacimcan nike sue you for giving away 1:1 copies of their shoes?14:18
jjpkfile sharing per se is not illegal anywhere: COPYRIGHTED file sharing however is ;)14:18
tilmanoh? so tpb users could be successfully sued in .se?14:18
sepenhi! Im a crux's newbie, is that distro for musicians?14:18
treachtilman: no, but prosecuted14:18
sepens/that/this14:18
tilmansepen: no, but there's some music enthusiasts maybe!14:18
clickoncejoacim: That's not the same as violating software/game licenses or violating copyright laws.14:18
tilmantreach: k14:18
sepenhehehe14:18
tilmantreach: one of the xmms2 guys told me it was perfectly legal. mmh.14:18
sepenwacken wacken wacken crux14:18
sepenxD14:18
treachtilman: it used to be.14:19
treachbtw, copyright law is so fucked up it has lost all meaning.14:19
treachit's just a way for corporations to use laws to perpetualize their own existence and incomes.14:20
tilmanthe record companies are fucked up, that's what i care about14:20
tilmanalbums are too damn expensive these days, at least here14:20
treachtilman: disney is probably the biggest hypocrites in the universe..14:21
clickonceBuy it from iTunes, all the stuff on iTunes is cheap IMO and I'm not rich.14:21
tilmanand i really don't care whether the huge companies make less money from their cheap pop crap14:21
tilmani wouldn't buy DRM'd music14:21
clickonceiTunes Plus is not DRMd14:21
clickonceIt's 256kbit/s non-drm stuff.14:22
treachclickonce: it's not about money, it's about principles too.14:22
jjpkThe major labels are just pissed because they cannot compete and instead of adapting to the conditions they want governments to do their bidding for them.14:22
clickonceAt the same price as the DRMd stuff.14:22
tilmananyway, i don't "steal" much music, i've got a clean conscience ;p14:22
clickoncetreach: Principles?14:22
clickoncetreach: What principles?14:22
treachthese fucking asshats use the copyright laws to ripp off artists as well as the general public14:22
clickoncetreach: If someone make something and they want money for it then it's up to them, not you to grab it anyway.14:22
treachwell, if you buy politicians to make laws that only makes sense to you, it does.14:23
clickonceSo, according to you, I have no right to demand $X for my music or $XX for my piece of software?14:23
treachnot really.14:24
clickonceWhy not?14:24
treachyou have no right to make money from what you do. You have a righ to TRY to make money from it.14:24
treachIf everyone had a right to make money from what they do, we'd still be riding stagecoaches.14:24
clickonceWell, I have the right not to give it away if someone doesn't want to pay me, AND I have the right to require them to sign a contract/license if they choose to buy it.14:24
treachbut your rights aren't prepetual, or at least shouldn't be.14:25
clickonceAnd if they DO sign the contract/license I have the right to sue them if they violate it.14:25
treachremember, copyright is something society has given you in order to make you produce more, to the benefit of society.14:25
clickonceOh, jesus, socialistic crap.14:26
treachbut if you get a garanteed income for all eternety from what you do, the incentitive is *gone*14:26
treachIt has NOTHING to do with socialism14:26
tilmantreach: mmhmmhmhmh. i don't think they have that in german copyright law :P14:26
tilman(produce more -> benefit of society)14:26
treachwell, essentially.14:26
clickoncetreach: If you have signed the contract it is final, you can't copy it unless the contract/license permits it.14:27
treachwell, I haven't signed anything..14:27
clickoncetreach: By breaking the seal of a cd, by installing/using the software, etc you DO accept to those terms.14:27
treachbullshit14:27
clickonceIt's not.14:27
treachshrinkwrap licenses are not valid.14:27
joacima license you havent read isnt legal14:28
clickonceSoftware licenses are not shrinkwrap licenses.14:28
treachclickonce: this is different in different countries.14:28
treacha contract is supposed to be a "meeting of minds"14:28
clickonceThe license of software is displayed on screen before you accept it.14:28
treacha shrinkwrap or boiler plate licence is not a meeting of minds.14:28
treachit's totallty one sided, and thus void14:29
clickonceIt's not void if you accept it, which you do by clicking accept.14:29
treachit's void because it's forced.14:29
clickonceIt's not, you have to option not to accept it/14:29
clickonceBut then you don't have the right to use the software.14:29
clickonceWhich is fair.14:29
treachI can't get my money back if I disagree, and thus I have no choice14:29
clickonceOf course you can, the MS EULA, for instance,  does say you can get a refund if you don't accept the software.14:30
treachrofl14:30
treachhave you tried14:30
treach?14:30
clickonceActually not since I don't have any need to.14:31
tilmantreach: that has worked in .de before :p14:31
treachYou should, just so you know what you're talking about..14:31
treachtilman: this isn't .de14:31
tilman:x14:31
treachthe so called jucidal system here is quite corporate friendly. :/14:32
clickonceI do defend the corporates and the copyright laws where ever I go, and I'm not even related to any of them.14:32
treachquite the indoctrinate, huh.14:33
clickonceNope.14:33
treachyou're getting screwed, and you're asking for more.14:33
clickonceI'm a proprietary software developer ;)14:33
treachwell, there were once a lot of people who lived on making weels, and buggywhips etc..14:34
joacimgb2windows14:34
treachs/weels/wheels14:34
SiFuh_http://youtube.com/watch?v=JhzBVBZKte414:38
SiFuh_always a classic14:38
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treachtilman: btw, if society didn't grant you copyright in order for you to produce more, *why* should it give this privilege in the first place..? =)14:45
tilmanso i can't rip off your work14:46
treachwhat's in that for the society?14:46
clickonceJust mentioning the word "society" proofs it's all about socialistic crap. Anyway, movie time. Bleh.14:47
jjpkFor the benefit of society? Gah. They have us all fooled.14:47
treachclickonce: you're a big fool14:47
jjpkMaybe 50-100 years ago it was true, today it certainly is not.14:47
treachjjpk: indeed.14:47
tilmantreach: wouldn't you be pissed if i got filthy rich because i took and sold your work, and you got nothing in return for that work? :p14:47
treachwell, *I* would.14:48
clickoncetreach: Bah, I don't like neither the society nor socialistic fucktards. Capitalism is the only way to go.14:48
treachtilman: but I doubt the society would care14:48
treachclickonce: you're an even bigger fool than I thougt14:48
treachthought14:48
clickonceSo be it.14:48
clickonceGo to go now.14:48
tilmantreach: i hope (and think) they do14:49
treach"society" has nothing to do with "socialism".14:50
treachsociety is just the entity that defines the rules.14:50
DaViruzeverything beginning with "soci" is communist propaganda, everyone knows that14:50
treachand if *it* doesn't gain from them, they are not going to be created.14:50
treachDaViruz: haha, right. :D14:51
* jjpk summons good ole Joe McCarthy14:52
treach"I don't live in a society, I live in capitalism"14:52
treachrofl14:52
jjpkAnything deviant HAS to be communist.14:52
jjpkWe shall persecute every communist.14:53
jjpkreal or perceived14:53
jjpkRegardless of the political and social order, society still exists. ;)14:54
treachindeed...14:55
jjpk"for the benefit of society" if that part of copyright ever even existed, then copyright would differ quite radically.14:58
jjpkPerhaps you can claim you invented it, but anyone would use it.14:58
jjpkSomething more along the lines of open source licenses.14:59
jjpkI doubt it would work well too long before people would be killing one another :D15:00
jjpkYou can't separate greed and lust from humanity.15:00
jjpkA good and proper genetic rewiring could come handy to reduce and remove those traits ;)15:02
treachit's what copyright is about, originally. As I said, if I for instance ripp off tilman's work, then maybe I could create something from that that benefited societey even more.15:02
treachcopyright is the way of the society to award the original author for a limited time, so he can continue and create something new, rather than being put out of business by copycats15:03
treachiow, it's a way to say, "Hey, good work, as a thank you for this, we'll abstain from replicating your stuff for X years."15:06
treachbut not having people replicating what you've done isn't some god given right, just like being able to sell it also isn't.15:07
tilmantreach: bleh, that's what i said earlier, isn't it?15:13
treachnot sure, maybe I got you wrong.15:14
treachmy point is that copyright is just a way of society to be "nice".15:14
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treachit's a privilege, granted to you as an award, not some perpetual god given right as some seem to think.15:15
tilmansure, i agree15:16
trire15:16
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telitiHello everyone. I'm on Crux-2.4 (i686) with the following firefox startup problem:   /usr/lib/firefox/run-mozilla.sh: line 131: 16343 Segmentation fault      "$prog" ${1+"$@"}15:17
telitiIs there a way to fix this?15:17
treachugh, not that again..15:18
teliti*g*, I finished compiling some minutes ago ... do you know a solution?15:18
treachteliti: I had that problem a while back.. I don't remember how I fixed it though.15:19
Romsteri thought we got rid of that issue.15:19
treachtried as a different user?15:19
treachor just moving your .mozilla dir to something else?15:20
telititreach: as a different user? I tried it with my user-account and with root ...15:20
treachah15:20
treachk..15:20
treachfancy c/cxx flags?15:21
telitino ...15:21
Romsterpkgadd -u firefox off the 2.4 cd and see if that works if that works you compiled firefox badly somehow.15:21
telitino, its no working ... the same massage15:23
Romsterhmp..15:23
tilmanteliti: get a debug build (CFLAGS="$CFLAGS -g") pkgmk -ns -kw15:23
tilmanand debug the mofo15:23
tilman:D15:23
teliti*g* this evening? oh dear  ...15:24
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treachteliti: did you rebuild any other critical stuff?15:24
tilmanteliti: don't listen to me15:24
Romstermove your .mozilla directory like mv ~/.mozilla ~/.mozilla.bak15:24
telititilman: well, I updated the basesystems where it came out of date15:24
Romsterand try then and if that don't work you should try revdep to see if you got any broken librarys.15:25
treachargh. I hate this problem.15:25
telitime too :-)15:25
treachI never fully understood what was the cause when I was hit by it15:25
Romsteri dunno what exactly casues it either..15:25
Romsterall i did was recompile crap i think.15:26
Romsteri'd say it might be todo with the gtk update?15:26
treachno.15:27
telitino, thats not possible15:27
Romsteri'm stumped on ideas then..15:27
Romsterif i remember something it couldn't execute the firefox binary in the /usr/share/firefox/ or somethng but why i dunno.15:29
treachas far as I can find out, your firefox isn't executeable15:29
Romstermight have something todo with runing it as root messing up some permissions i think.. i relaly can't remember.15:30
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treachso either something broke during compilation, or you've got permissions problems15:30
teliti-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 5286 Feb 15 22:22 firefox15:30
Romsterthat looks right...15:31
treachteliti: can you build a working helloworld?15:31
telitiwith c?15:31
treachI'd presume it should be c++15:31
joacimI had a similar error on gentoo once, I "fixed" by restarting X1115:32
telitiyes15:32
telititreach! *g*15:32
telitiok, ill restart it ...15:33
teliticu15:33
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telitino, thats not the problem15:33
treachteliti: have you edited your c/cxx flags at all? (I'm aware you said you didn't use any fancy stuff)15:35
telitino, I didnt ...15:36
treachok15:36
treachhmm. path problem maybe?15:38
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telitiwell, at least the executable is found, and I dont have any strange settings15:39
treachteliti: if you have a look at line 131 in /usr/lib/firefox/run-mozilla.sh, it would indicate something like that15:39
treachdoh.. if it segfaults, it's found.15:40
treachforget I said anything15:40
telitiyeah: # firefox15:41
teliti/usr/lib/firefox/firefox-bin15:41
telitiit segfaults after this in the same function15:41
teliti/usr/lib/firefox/firefox-bin: error while loading shared libraries: libmozjs.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory     aha!15:42
treachthat's just java15:42
telititreach: I need some hope! :-)15:43
treachhehe, ok.15:43
treachwell, it should be there..15:43
treachdoes it exist?15:44
telitiyes: /usr/lib/firefox/libmozjs.so15:45
treachok, then there's something worth looking into15:45
pedjadoes FF still need /usr/lib/firefox added to /etc/ld.so.conf?15:47
treachno15:47
telitino, ive already checked ...15:47
telititheres not much hope left - I'll better have a beer!15:47
teliticheers!15:47
rehabdollnow thats how you deal with problems!15:48
rehabdolli would too, but im out of beer and got work tomorrow :(15:48
telitiits friday evening and ... well, I also have to work tomorrow, but in the afternoon *g*15:48
telitiI give up for this evening! thx for your help all, see ya next time! and have a nice weekend15:51
treachhm.. apparently it could be some permission problem in /dev/.15:51
telitihmmm15:51
teliti?15:51
treachTrying to find out more. You don't happen to have a screwed up /dev/null btw?15:52
telitiwell, its still there: crw-rw-rw- 1 root root 1, 3 Feb 15 20:23 /dev/null15:52
treachok, just wondering, since some ports tend to change it to a file. :)15:53
telitiI will try to find the problem tomorrow, this evening is to nice to spend more time in firefox *g*15:54
telitisee ya!15:54
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treachsee you15:54
treachdamn that error bothers me. :/15:54
* RedShift zzz16:04
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SiFuh_so freaking hard to get a ticket to bolivia19:44
SiFuh_from south east asia19:44
cruxbotxfce.git: xfce4-mailwatch-plugin: New port.19:48
cruxbotxfce.git: xfce4-mailwatch-plugin: Added meta Group.19:54
cruxbotxfce.git: xfce4-clipman-plugin: New port.19:56
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cruxbotxfce.git: xfce4-artwork: New port.20:11
cruxbotxfce.git: libmpd: New port.20:22
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cruxbotxfce.git: xfmpc: New port.20:51
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cruxbotxfce.git: ristretto: Updated 0.0.15 -> 0.0.1621:08
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prologicnipuL, thanks for the patch22:35
prologicteK, today :)22:36
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Romsterevening all.23:54
predatorfreakRomster: Damn it! You're back from eating people already?23:55
Romsterhehe23:55
Romsteri was asleep <<23:55
Romstergeting ready for the night <<23:55
predatorfreakRomster: Riiiight23:55
Romsteri really did my neck the other day on my pillow somehow and it's really sore..23:56
predatorfreakRomster: It's okay, we all know your secret :P23:56
Romsterlol23:56
Romsterhmm predatorfreak since your in ipt maybe you can throw your oggvorbis port in there?23:58
Romsteropt*23:58
predatorfreakRomster: Don't maintain vorbis.23:59
predatorfreakRomster: I can throw it in contrib23:59

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