IRC Logs for #crux Saturday, 2008-02-16

Romsterwell being more better as you say with new stuff itwould be good for the masses to use it.00:00
predatorfreakRomster: I don't maintain libvorbis, I can't rightly touch that in opt.00:01
predatorfreakand it's the only sane place to put it00:01
predatorfreakExcept contrib as "libvorbis_autov"00:01
Romstersounds good enough to me.00:03
Romsterif your happy todo that.00:03
cruxbotcontrib.git: libvorbis_autov: New port.00:04
Romsteractually i've been thining of the names that have the this-filename-1.2.3 names should really be this_filename-1.2.300:05
predatorfreakRomster: :)00:05
Romsterwould make it easyer to parse the verion string out.00:05
predatorfreakRomster: Probably, don't ask me though :P00:05
Romsterok and i'm not gonna attempt to fix my spelling errors i need more coffee <<00:05
predatorfreakRomster: You mean human blood?00:06
Romsterwas just a thought i had yesterday. personal opinion good/bad/notworth it?00:06
predatorfreakRomster: I dunno.00:06
predatorfreakAsk someone not-me.00:06
Romsterhmm and i just decide to check up on the sox site and my ck4up missed the change...00:15
Romsteronly problem with ck4up it is not fool proof.00:15
predatorfreakRomster: Nothing is :P00:18
predatorfreakRomster: Especially not humans though00:18
Romsteri don't get it my ck4up line is correct...00:22
Romsterunexplained mistery.00:22
Romsteri guess i arn't as out of date as some though <<00:23
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clickonceJesus, $136 for 100M cat6 ftp cable..00:31
clickonceFoiled Twisted Pair00:34
Romsteri've seen it for like $85aud for a 305M spool.00:35
clickonceutp is cheaper00:35
Romsterthat be why it's shilded.00:35
clickonceunshielded twisted pair00:35
clickonceyeah, exactly.00:35
Romsterwhy can't they just call it shileded tp00:35
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clickonceWell, there is STP as well.00:36
clickonceSTP, UTP, FTP, S/STP, S/UTP00:36
clickonceS/UTP is the same as FTP though. :)00:37
cruxbotcontrib.git: sox: 14.0.0 -> 14.0.100:39
RomsterS/UTP dosn't make sense..00:39
Romstershilded/unshilded twisted pair...00:40
clickonceScreened unshielded twisted pair00:40
Romsteri'd go with a fibire optic <<00:40
clickonceThe 4 twisted pairs are surrounded by an outer metal shield in S/UTP.00:41
Romsterscreened ah the one with many small strands of a shield.00:41
predatorfreakclickonce: STP? Shit Twisted Pair?00:41
clickonceIn S/STP each pair is shielded as well as all pairs.00:41
Romsterthat isn't 100% coverage.00:41
clickonceSTP, Shielded Twisted Pair00:41
Romsterthat would be to minimise crosstalk.00:42
clickonceS/STP would be the best. :)00:42
clickonceEach pair is shielded as well as all pairs together. :)00:42
Romsterbut it's ballanced 110ohm cable really dosn't need a shield.00:42
predatorfreakclickonce: Actually I was joking00:42
Romsterrejaction ratio to noise is very high in balanced.00:43
Romsterbeen wondering about gigabit does that use all 4 pairs?00:43
clickonceGigabit uses 2 pairs, just like 10/10000:43
Romsterwhat do they use the other 2 pairs for i know there is PoE00:44
clickonceUnused otherwise, cat5,5e,6/rj45 wasn't specifically made for ethernet.00:44
RomsterPower over Eathernet.00:44
Romsterthen there is this 10,000 ones i see in the kernel config now...00:45
Romsterso 10gigabit i bet that would have to be fibire optic.00:46
Romsteralthough i could be wrong i never did look it up.00:46
clickonceThough I'd use fibre for cross-floor traffic, Cat6 S/STP for infrastructure traffic and UTP for regular network traffic.00:46
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clickonceGod damn screen session to die00:50
clickonceDamn, I want money now... so I can get a T61 :)00:54
clickonceA T61 14.1" 1440x900... I saw one live the other day, I fell in love. :)00:54
clickonceI've considered an X61 since I've had one X** before... but after seeing the T61... it's not doubt about it.00:55
predatorfreakclickonce: Personally, I want a small army.01:00
predatorfreakclickonce: We don't all get what we want :(01:00
clickonceNo one else to blame than myself. I've already had one X40, one X41 and one X60 as well as a HP NC6220 somewhere in between... I've always lost them somehow...01:01
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clickonceIt's said that manufacturing widescreen LCDs/TFTs is cheaper than 4:3 ones, does anyone know why?01:04
Romsterno idea i'd of thought more screen area would be more expense.01:06
clickonceSweet jesus, all I need is ~$900 and I've got myself a T61.01:10
Romsterlol start saving.01:10
clickonceSure as hell will. :)01:10
clickonceGod fucking damnit.01:13
clickonceI had a discussion about opensource software vs. commercial software in ##csharp a few weeks ago.01:13
prologicand ?01:13
clickonceThey all said that open source software is better than commercial and that contributing to opensource software can be good for your career.01:14
prologicThey would be very correct in saying that.01:15
clickonceI told them to fuck off since I do not give away anything that I make for free. Anyway, looking at's "Work For Us" page I see the following sentence: "At Loopia we are proud to both use and support OpenSource software and we use it as far as we can".01:15
clickonceWho got buttfucked completely this time? Me...01:15
clickonceNow it kinda sucks I've abandonned every OSS project I've ever started...01:16
clickonceI've worked on tons of projects... KStorm (released, cancelled due to loss of interest), Cmixer (never released due to hd crash), KDevelop (bored), Kopete (bored), FVWM (got bored)...01:17
prologicever tried sticking to one or two things ?01:18
prologicinstead of putting your fingers in everything and never having enough time for it all ?01:18
clickonceWell, I never do more than one or two things at any given time, I just get bored very easily and I spawn new ideas frequently that I want to tryout.01:19
Romsterprologic, *gags*01:19
prologicI find way too many people in the OSS community get their fingers stuck in too many things01:19
prologicthen you're probably not very well suited to a project :)01:19
prologicmore research (r&d)01:19
prologictinkering :)01:19
clickonceThough I must admit I have a shitload of active projects now...01:20
prologicdefine "shitload" ?01:20
clickonce~10 :)01:20
prologicgood god01:20
prologicdo you do anything else ?01:20
prologicyou must have no gf/wife or life outside of computing :)01:21
clickonceWhere 3 is the same program but different versions... (One being C/C++, one being C#, etc)01:21
clickonceAnd I can't decide which one to continue on...01:21
prologicthe world needs people like you :)01:21
prologickeep up the good work01:21
clickoncenor can I decide whether to make it a commercial application, open source or mixed.. (oss for non-profit, etc)01:21
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clickonceprologic: Which one would you pick? The C# one or the C/C++? (In the C/C++ one I'm also developing my very own cross-platform library since I'm too cheap to buy Qt and too NIHolistic to use anything else)01:26
prologicI can't answer that. I don't have enough information to make an informed decision. Besides this is your project work. Own it :)01:28
clickoncebah :P01:29
prologicMy only advice, is make an informed decision based on quantifiable choices and design processes01:29
clickonceWell, what do you think corporates want within 1 to 3 years? Native cross-platform application written in C/C++ or managed Windows based .NET?01:30
prologiccorporates wants:01:30
prologica) to work yesterday01:30
clickonceThat's my biggest concern, if the corporates will demand managed code... if that's the future, I'm fucked.01:30
prologicb) to be cost effective01:30
prologicc0 enable them to generate more revenue01:30
prologiccorporates want it cheap, built quickly and good quality01:31
Romsteri'd not use C# but it is portable..01:31
prologichowever you can't have all 3, only 2, so design carefully.01:31
clickonceC/C++ then, Cheap and Good Quality :)01:31
aonsepen: pong, btw01:31
* prologic sighs01:32
clickonceI've even found a company who wants people to suggest new ideas and applications, etc... :)01:32
Romsterah neat i'd be good at that <<01:32
clickonceBtw, is there any noticeable performance difference between C# / C/C++? I've been in ##csharp to long so I've been brainwashed.01:35
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clickonceWelcome RedShift !02:18
RedShiftehlo clickonce02:18
RedShiftyou got your vlans working?02:18
clickonceI'm getting there :)02:18
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clickonceRedShift: Do you think C/C++ will become a less dominant programming language used in 1 to 4 years and will managed language like C# increase in popularity?03:20
clickonceRedShift: I.e. when starting a new project, would you choose C/C++ or C#?03:21
Romsteri'd choose D03:23
Romsterif it takes off or not is another thing.03:23
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tilmanfrom the looks of the url: OOOOOOLD05:15
Romsteroh crap it is too..05:16
treachtilman: lag to .au must be horrible. :P05:16
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tilmanmmh, installing sp2 on windows xp in qemu/kvm takes ages05:32
tilmanseems slower than on a 'real' system05:33
treachthat's what you get for being a deviant. ;)05:34
Romsterhaven't heard of slipstreaming tilman <<05:36
tilmansounds dirty05:36
Romsteri have a xp cd i've made with sp2 plus updates on it.05:36
tilmanjk. i have05:36
tilmani'm not really a windows person...05:37
Romstersaves alot of time.05:37
treachslipstreaming tilman? Mh.. Romster don't you think he's fast enough?05:37
tilmani guess i would have used windows to create the slipstreamed cd05:37
tilmanreading about slipstreaming always makes me think of quake1 :D05:37
tilmani already thought noone understood that05:47
Romsterslipstreaming is quite easy i found.05:48
tilmangah, windows' ftp client sucks05:52
tilmani'm sending a literal "PASV" to enter passive mode05:52
tilmanwhen i then send 'ls' it tries to set up a data connection again...05:53
Romstertilman, what interest have you got in dos and now windows.05:53
tilmani'm using windows for RE'ing05:54
Romsterare you trying to learn something?05:54
tilmanrunning ida in wine sucks05:54
tilmanalso windows is good at running crap old dos exes :P05:54
tilmanor win32 console applications05:54
Romsterbe intersting how to use a vnc to qemu05:56
tilmancan anyone recommend a small ftp client for windows that can do passive mode?05:56
aoni use filezilla05:56
tilmangpl, nice05:57
Romsteri used to use fireftp in firefox.05:57
Romsterbut before that hmm.05:57
tilmandon't have bloatedfox on the system anyway05:57
Romsterputty site?05:57
Romsterhmm maybe not..05:58
tilmanjust wanted to make a quick backup to the host  system before the sp2 update finished06:00
Romster maybe06:01
treachncftp is nice06:02
tilmani used to use ncftp on my boxes, but eventually switched to lftp06:02
tilmani don't remember what bugged me about ncftp06:03
tilmanbut something about it was retarded ;p06:03
Romstermaybe you'll remember.06:03
treachmaybe it's because it's not gpl. :p06:04
prologicclickonce, first of all... What the hell is  "managed language" ?06:06
prologicclickonce, second of all, C/C++ is far from a dominant language06:06
tilmanmanaged code. code executed by a vm. duh.06:07
prologichow is that "managed code" ? :)06:08
prologicanother marketing "bs" term :)06:09
* prologic reads anyway06:09
prologicoh pardon me06:09
prologicit's a MS term even better06:09
prologiccode managed by MS's clr06:10
tilmanmaybe you should read all of it instead of the first few words06:10
prologicexcuse my "lack of enthusiasm" tilman :) I'm an engineer and this term is a useless pile of meaningless crap :)06:11
prologicI did :)06:11
prologicI contrast it with terms like "Web 2.0"06:11
treachin truth though, it's mostly ms-fanboys who talk about "managed code" ime.06:11
prologicit seems that marketers and/or ms have tried or have already replaced the more familiar terms we all know: virtual machines, interpreters, etc06:12
prologicmaybe "interpreted" langauges have copped bad rap over the years06:13
prologicand intermediate langauges (such as those run on vms like clr, python's vm)06:13
tilmani don't think it's a meaningless... but i have no interest in argueing with you06:13
prologic:) it's just a thought06:13
tilmanhah, installing sp2 reset my activation period to 30 days06:14
prologicI must try an iMac one of these days :)06:15
treachyou should have used vista, they might have given you an activation code from pure gratefulness that someone actually installed it volontarily. ;D06:16
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treach... now, that's a change of nickname worth the effort. :D06:17
Zlowercase users in linux:p06:18
Zi have a small problem with the install of kde06:18
ZDon't know if anyone can help me out06:18
treachdoesn't look promising so far.06:19
Zapparently, the system is unable to fetch the package pinentry because the connection is refused06:19
tilmanhehe, those automatically translated knowledge base articles at ms are so worthless (at least the german ones)06:19
Zstrangly enough I can download the tar.gz manually06:19
tilmanZ: is fucked i think06:20
treachZ: so put it in $SRC dir06:20
prologicZ, stick the file in the port's dir then06:20
tilmanlook for a mirror06:20
prologicZ, and manually pkgmk -d -i06:20
ZGreat, i'll try that, thanks06:20
treachZ: better yet. edit /etc/pkgmk.conf and set the $SRC dir to something sane.06:20
treachthen just put stuff there.06:20
treachstuff=source packages06:21
prologicI agree with treach06:21
ZThe system checks there first?06:21
prologicI use a central $SRC dir (mounted remotely on my data box006:21
treachZ: I have this ; PKGMK_SOURCE_DIR="/var/ports/distfiles"06:21
treachwhere /var/build is a tmpfs. ;D06:22
prologicI'd do that but I need more ram :)06:22
prologic2GB isn't enough :)06:22
treachit is.06:22
treachat least for me..06:23
prologicnot with my desktop06:23
prologic$ free -m06:23
prologic             total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached06:23
prologicMem:          2027       1972         55          0         11       165006:23
tilman756 mb was enough for me for every package but firefox06:23
treachoo sucks too. :/06:23
tilmandon't remember how large the tmpfs was though06:23
treachand jdk06:23
tilmannever built ooo06:23
treachtilman: did you see that mainiac who made a ooo source port? =)06:24
Romsteri got 2GB assigned if it gets over my ram amount it goes to swap, and that rarely happens anyways.06:24
prologicswap sucks :)06:25
Romsterlol i looked it's worse than nss port.06:25
tilmantreach: don't think so06:25
Zthere, that worked :)06:25
Romsteri know.06:25
tilmanlol, qemu only has 128 mb ram assigned06:26
tilmantreach: o_O06:26
treachthat might explain why the service pack was so slow..06:26
Romsteroh wow firefox crashed, why am i not suprised.06:27
tilmanah, it's Rotwang06:27
tilmantreach: indeed!06:27
Romsteryeah the one with the USE flags idea...06:27
treachRomster: want to try ff3?06:27
Romsteri guess i could.06:28
treachsee the ports in my repo06:28
Romsteri did try out the binary of ff3 i failed to build a nightly snapshot.06:28
Romsteryeah i saw you added them.06:28
Romsterdunno if i like the patched libpng though.06:28
tilman# 235 lines, nice! (with that one down there) I'm proud of myself ;) (I know that this port is far from perfect)06:29
tilmanRotwang: you're insane, but that was a good job with the ooo port :D06:29
Romstermakes my ports look sane.06:29
tilmanRotwang: zlib isn't really optional on a crux system. you could unconditionally use --with-system-zlib :)06:30
treachRotwang: don't forget to rebuild afterwards. ;D06:30
Romsterdunno why he chose to use cat the database than to use pkginfo.06:32
treachprt-cache listinst06:34
treachunfortunately not everyone use that cache, I know06:35
Romsteri actually use prt-cache alot.06:35
Romsterit's alot faster than prt-get.06:35
tilmanwhy the fuck does that page not have a "download source" link?06:35
Romsterit's a wiki edit it <<06:37
treachthere are the links you need, I guess06:37
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tilmanmmh, yeah06:42
tilmanpredatorfreak said they had a <= 20mb source tarball somewhere06:42
tilmanbut all i see is the 260 mb mammoth you talked about earlier06:42
Romster8MB i heard?06:42
treachthat's still <=20. :p06:42
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treachk, call the fbi someone06:43
Romsterdamn you treach06:43
treachwhy now?06:43
Romsteralways correct <<06:44
Rotwangnew OOo is coming, so ill correct my port then06:45
tilmanhow large is the source tarball for ooo, btw?06:46
treach"Freaking huge"?06:47
treachRotwang: what kind of computer do you have, really? An Altix?06:48
Rotwangcore duo 2160 (1,8 GHz per core) 1 GB RAM06:48
Rotwang6 h to compile OOo06:48
treachok, interesting.06:48
treachI thought it would take longer actually06:49
treachI'm *almost* tempted to try it, as a benchmark. :p06:49
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RotwangRomster: i know use flags are evil :P06:51
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Romstertreach, lol.06:53
treachit should be done quite a bit faster than 6h at least.06:54
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RedShiftclickonce: I dunno, I'm not a programmer06:56
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Z /topic08:42
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Pabl0Escobarhello, could someone web paste their grub menu.lst part concerning crux kernel. I seem to have a problem with either grub or kernel configuration08:49
Pabl0Escobarthnx, but it seems to be a kernel problem, it keeps telling Unable to mount root, but I have even all options for SATA and PATA built in08:52
Zcheck the (hd0,0) part08:53
tilmanPabl0Escobar: did you enable support for the file system you use on the root partition?08:53
Pabl0EscobarZ: it's ok, (0,2) and crux is on my sda3 partition08:53
Pabl0Escobartilman: ext3, yup08:53
Pabl0Escobarthe kernel boots up, it runs for a while and then spits out Unable to mount root .......08:54
tilmanso you're line is: kernel(hd0,2)/boot/whatever root=/dev/sda3 ?08:54
Pabl0Escobartilman: yup08:54
tilmanwhen i had that problem before, i was missing one driver needed for sata08:55
tilmanwhat chipset does your motherboard use?08:56
Pabl0Escobartilman: but it's in the SATA part of menuconfig ?08:56
tilmanor in scsi08:56
tilmando you have "scsi disk support" enabled?08:56
Pabl0Escobartilman: got to check08:57
tilmani think that's CONFIG_BLK_DEV_SD08:57
Pabl0Escobartilman: enabled before :(08:58
tilmani guess you could boot from the crux cd to install the system?08:59
tilmanyou can steal the config that's used to build the kernel on the cd08:59
tilmanand diff it against your  current version08:59
tilmanthat will be quite some work though :x08:59
Pabl0Escobarok, thnx, i guess I will be back :D09:00
tilmanPabl0Escobar: you compiled everything in directly, and not as modules, right?09:01
tilmans/everything/everything needed to boot the system/09:01
tilmanie scsi/sata/root filesystem09:01
Pabl0Escobartilman: all directly09:01
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tilmanthis read-data-from-file code does:09:09
tilmanif (number_of_bytes_to_read > 65K)09:09
tilman  number_of_bytes_to_read = 65K09:09
tilmanthat's just a wrapper around the interrupt that does the actual reading, so wtf?09:09
tilmanoh d'oh09:10
tilmanthe interrupt gets the number of bytes in a 16 bit variable09:10
tilmanerr, bs09:11
tilmanit says: if(blabla)  number_of_bytes_to_read = 0x0f00;09:12
Romstermaving fun are we.09:13
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tilmanit's a shitload of work, but it's kind of fun10:46
tilmani think i'll have to hack dosbox a bit10:46
tilmani tried to: strace -eopen,close,read dosbox so i can see when it's reading data off the files10:47
tilmanit's stupid, and it doesn't work anyway ;)10:47
SiFuh_trunking wireless is stupid also doesn't seem to work10:55
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Pabl0Escobarhello again (sigh), I have one more question to ask, to enable compiling with dual core, i put EXPORT MAKEOPTS="-j3" in /etc/pkgmake.conf right ? or wrong :)11:11
Rotwangmakeopts is gentoo thing i think11:14
Pabl0Escobari thought so :)11:14
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Pabl0Escobarnow google responds, thanks, Rotwang11:15
tilmanPabl0Escobar: -j4 is more appropriate i think11:16
Pabl0Escobari always thought it's cpus + 111:17
tilmancpus * 211:18
Rotwangi dont use it at all, makeflags tend to break some builds11:18
tilmanRotwang: there shouldn't be. many people use -j > 1 these days, and i don't think i've seen any port breakage due to that (i have a dual core cpu since the end of last year only though)11:21
Rotwangi had some problems with it, i.e. thunderbird11:22
tilmancare to write the maintainers about that?11:23
Rotwangit was some time ago, as i remember they didnt have problems with that (it was jaeger iirc)11:25
tilmanyeah, he maintained it before11:25
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ximondaHi there!11:38
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Pabl0Escobaris there any reported bug in nss, it just spits out errors, and no go no matter what I try12:21
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rehabdollim currently using windows vista. i feel all dirty :(14:16
aoni replaced vista with xp recently14:16
aonit got so fucked up14:16
Pabl0Escobarok, I've tried everything, why does nss fail to build while building gnome ?14:22
RotwangPabl0Escobar: what error ?14:23
Pabl0Escobar../../../dist/public/dbm/mcom_db.h:239: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or '__attribute__' before 'pgno_t'14:24
Pabl0Escobarsorry, this is the one ../../../dist/public/dbm/mcom_db.h:46:21: error: prtypes.h: No such file or directory14:25
Rotwangtry disabling makeflags14:25
Pabl0EscobarRotwang: done that14:25
Pabl0Escobarno go14:25
Rotwangbuilts fine here14:26
Pabl0Escobarthanks :P14:26
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ryuoman this new laptop does not like crux.15:11
tilmanwhat's up?15:12
ryuofirst i had to turn off ACPI then i boot up and get "unknown bus type 6" errors15:12
ryuoi wonder if manufacturers are making it harder to install linux on purpose15:13
ryuothis laptop is new even15:14
tilmanlaptop manufacturers maybe don't test their hardware with linux as well (or they don't care)15:14
ryuoit runs a C7-M15:14
ryuoaka VIA15:14
tilmanmaybe the bios is just broken15:15
ryuoubuntu managed to boot up just fine15:15
ryuoto xorg15:15
ryuoso i doubt that15:15
ryuoso i need to figure out what the problem is so i can correct it15:15
tilmansteal their kernel config and build a custom kernel15:15
ryuowhats unknown bus type even mean15:16
ryuoits not even an error i've encountered before15:16
tilmanif google doesn't help there, i'd grep the kernel headers ;)15:18
tilmangrepping the kernel _src_ for 'unknown bus type' might be a better idea15:18
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ryuowow its working15:25
ryuoi had to disable acpi and smp15:25
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SiFuh_that's cool18:27
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RomsterSiFuh_, O_o intersting proxy list. just what we need more proxys for script kiddies.21:58
jdolannew screens
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