IRC Logs for #crux Thursday, 2008-02-21

*** jaeger has quit IRC00:06
*** pitillo has joined #crux00:08
haoleim trying to port a program that defaults it's install to /opt00:11
haolewhat is the use of opt? is it right to use it?00:11
Romsteropt is optional stuff i guess stuff that's not packaged opt is also used to install other tool chains00:20
Romsterdepends what the program does you can hack at it to change paths and such00:21
Romsterhaole, you got alot to learn..00:21
haoleit suggests me to do this: ./configure --prefix=/opt/alliance00:22
Romsterwhat is the program?00:22
Romsterwhat does it do?00:22
haoleit does some vhdl stuff.. i wanted to try it :)00:23
haolenothing important, though00:23
Romsteri'd try using --prefix=/usr00:23
haoleyeah, let's see... :)00:23
haoletrying is always the best way to learn00:24
haoleand screw things over00:24
haoleoh my god this shit uses motif00:24
haolewhy do they do this? why do they use motif????00:24
RomsterAlliance is a complete set of free CAD tools and portable libraries for VLSI design. It includes a VHDL compiler and simulator00:25
Romsterok it has a compiler..00:25
Romsterit might need --prefix=/usr/share00:25
Romsterdepends how it works..00:25
haoleis there a port for motif library?00:26
haoleit needs this00:26
Romsteri've screwed alot of things over before i've learned.00:26
Romsterlook on the portdb00:26
Romsteror prt-get search|dsearch|fsearch00:26
Romsterand theres always grep00:26
Romsterportdb is in the topic ^00:27
Romsteri've had to port other shit just to get one program i wanted to try..00:28
haoleyeah, i have done it a couple of times00:28
haolei managed to install emesene, wich worked and scribes, wich didn't00:28
Romsterstill didn't get scribes to work..00:28
Romsterddi you get all the ?00:29
haolei wanted to stop using vim and use a python extensible editor to learn more about python00:29
Romsterall the modules.00:29
haoleyes, but it is not compatible with gtksourceview200:29
Romsterthere are other python editors..00:29
haoleso, i made a port to gtksourceview-1.000:29
haoleand it gave me some bizarre CORBA errors on startup and i gave up00:29
haoleim using gedit :D00:29
Romsteri tryed to patch it for v2 and i got no where.00:29
Romsteri'm using gvim.00:30
haolevim is great... it's the best for me00:30
haoleyeah, no motif for crux... let's make some motif :D00:31
haoleThe Motif 2.1 window manager offers a standard interface for moving, resizing or iconifying application windows00:32
haoleso resourcefull!!!!00:32
*** maxus has quit IRC00:42
Romsterfun burning a shit load of dvd's <<00:45
haoleaw... openmotif won't compile cause i don't have a X11/extensions/print.h00:46
haolegonna give up :(00:46
Romsterand no it's not piriting i'm backing up my system it's due for a major backup.00:46
haolebacking up through dvd is a pain00:46
Romsterlibxprint that's depreciated.00:46
Romsteryeah i know..00:46
haoleyeah... this program must be some dinoussaur00:46
Romsteri dont' have alot of options00:46
haolei'll keep freehdl, ghdl and all of those00:47
Romsteryou might find a use << after you deleate them.00:47
Romsterso i throw my junk into a attic directory just in case.00:47
haolei heard that there is a good program to make backups00:48
haolebacola, i think00:48
Romstergrep it for a file in the .footprints <<00:48
Romsteri'm using dar.00:48
haolehow do i do that? grep -r *.footprint Print.h?00:49
haoleim really confused about using grep00:49
haoleBacula is a set of computer programs that permit you (or the system administrator) to manage backup, recovery, and verification of computer data across a network of computers of different kinds.00:49
Romstergrep -r foo */.footprint00:49
Romstergrep -r --color=auto foo */.footprint00:50
Romsteri got a setup in my profile to do grep in colour.00:50
haolegrep: */.footprint: No such file or directory00:50
Romsteryou have to be down one level in /usr/ports/00:50
Romsteror say a full path00:51
Romstergrep -r --color=auto foo /usr/ports/contrib/*/.footprint00:51
SiFuhthis is weird..  systat ifstat   and everything stays as 000:51
SiFuheven in full network load00:51
haolegot it00:51
haolefirefox, firefox, gambas-help and k3d... :(00:52
Romsterhaole, in my /etc/profile i have00:52
Romsterexport GREP_OPTIONS='--color=auto'00:52
Romsteralias grep='grep $GREP_OPTIONS'00:52
Romstercan do the same to ls if your keen on colour.00:52
Romsterexport LS_OPTIONS='--color=auto'00:53
Romsteralias ls='ls $LS_OPTIONS'00:53
Romsteralias ll='ls $LS_OPTIONS -l'00:53
Romsteralias l='ls $LS_OPTIONS -lA'00:53
Romsterlinux customise it to how you want <<00:54
*** namenlos has joined #crux00:54
RomsterSiFuh, what command did oyu get that from?00:55
Romsterah not even crux..00:56
haoleim browsing through some cad tools00:56
haolei found one really recent: it's proud to be compatible with the new linux 2.2 kernel :|00:56
SiFuhRomster: pktstat is nice..00:57
SiFuhreminds me of the old ntop and trafshow00:57
SiFuhand there is also an ifstat  for linux00:57
haoledo u play wesnoth, romster?00:59
Romsterthat reminds me i gotta update the last dev version.01:00
Romsteri haven't got that far with wesnoth though.01:01
haoleit's really nice... let's play sometime01:03
haolei just defeated my brother twice :D01:03
haolegot the undead at random twice, and did a walking corpse rush twice :D01:03
Romsterlolz so you use that port too <<01:06
Romsteri ought to play it more.01:07
*** mike_k has joined #crux01:09
haoleits nice because it is so simple that u don't get lazy to play :D01:09
haolethose walking corpses are very nice... when u kill something with they, the thing u killed become an undead version of it01:12
haoleand they have graphics for this undead version of each character in the game... great game!01:13
haolewell, gonna sleep...01:15
Romsteryeah it's got alot in it.01:16
Romsterok g'night.01:16
pitilloRomster, can you check in a clean enviroment 1 test? try to build with depinst gftp if you can (Seems it has the same problem like gimp with gtk, but I am not sure)02:01
pitillofor gimp there is a missing dep (p5-xml-parser) but the problem with gtk+ libs I don't know how to solve it02:02
Romsterhmm k02:04
Romsteri need to test some changes i've done recently are you on safe-build version a37?02:05
Romsteri'd like reports of what's messed up.02:05
pitilloummm I am using a VM by now, but working in something else02:07
Romsterk :/02:07
Romstermaybe my clean() function would do what you wanted the other day.02:07
pitillothat is one reason I ask you to build in your safe enviroment (it's another way to check and verify)02:07
pitilloI think I miss some deps and may be the problem is there, and it's my fault instead of port's fault, checking it again02:08
pitilloRomster, I must review it to be sure of that, btw, I have a nasty solution to make a ports clean up and put the enviroment in a stable base/core state02:09
Romsterwell what i do is save a list sed out any ports not in core plus a few others then pkgrm them.02:10
pitilloyes, that is what I did with a little script, but I can store a base list and then compare with the current state, then you can take "photos" when you want (here using the first shot of a fresh installation's core)02:11
pitilloif you want to take a look to it, I can point you to the url02:11
pitilloall comments are welcome like I say always02:11
pitilloI think I missed 1 port to build gftp and gimp... testing again02:12
pitilloI think it's easier my clean function, it was reviewed by cptn and here is working fine02:15
Romster scroll down to clean()02:15
pitilloyeah I have it02:15
Romsteri've edited it recently unless your on a37 now.02:16
pitillo(installed and reviewed that is why I said mine seems easier)02:16
pitilloRomster, updated it a few minutes ago02:16
Romsterjsut wait untill i've ironed the bugs out of it <<02:16
Romsteri'm inspired to work on it more.02:16
Romsterso you have been keeping track.02:16
pitilloRomster, we are working on something too02:16
*** sepen has joined #crux02:17
pitilloRomster, yeah, I started with mine I left it to follow yours, in the beggining I followed it more (I don't know if you remember my comments about it)02:17
pitillotake a look to this if you have time
pitillomay be it can gives you clues or some kind of hint, and I repeat again, if you find it unusefull, wrong or something else, I hope you can tell me your opinion02:18
pitilloI think the problem about gtk was related to glitz and its its deps, I didn't install it, waiting to finish the build. Sorry about this report Romster and thank you a lot for waste your time testing my little reports.02:24
pitillogftp seems to build fine, I will test gimp to confirm its missing dep.02:28
Romsterif you want me to test something make sure you check for the somple things first.02:29
Romsteri know ya can sometime forget.02:29
pitilloyes, I don't want you to waste time, I miss things sometimes that is why I am sorry Romster.02:30
Romsterit's ok.02:30
pitilloI am trying to check all opt ports to look for at least missing deps02:31
pitillothat is my little work, I am trying to do my best and I am trying to don't report false positives.02:31
*** RedShift has joined #crux02:36
*** treach has joined #crux03:09
*** lasso|qt_ has joined #crux03:11
*** f1y has joined #crux03:14
*** Rotwang has joined #crux03:25
*** lasso|qt has quit IRC03:29
*** lucifer4u has joined #crux03:50
lucifer4uHello all03:51
f1yhi ho03:52
SiFuhlucifer4u: how did you go?04:01
Romsterpitillo, i've been thinking of a system wide snapshot program to tell me what's changed as in a hash and list of files, and then to exclude files from the packages and maybe /home /tmp etc.04:02
Romsterand show the rest.04:02
lucifer4uEverything is fine. Examining port system right now :)04:02
treachRomster: sounds like tripwire.. :p04:03
treachor maybe something zfs/btrfs could do.04:04
*** errdil has joined #crux04:06
Romsteri'd like ot use btrfs or something like that but it's no where ready yet..04:13
treachof course not.04:13
treachI was just trying to show different approaches currently being worked on.04:14
SiFuhdon't worry i will join the btrfs development team and make it perfect04:16
Romsteri'd join but i can't code that good.04:19
Romsteri do know hdd layout on heads platters etc. the basics.04:20
*** f1y has quit IRC04:20
SiFuhi was kidding by the way04:20
SiFuhi don't see the need to making new filesystems unless they want to implement maximum disk utilization. Allowing more data to be stored on less space04:21
Romsteri like the multiple virtual file system idea.04:22
SiFuhwhich i only see happening, if they decide to write data at the atomic level. Which would mean hardware modifications04:22
Romsterauto adjsut and span disks.04:22
SiFuhthe only virtual filesystems i like are the encrypted kind ;-)04:23
SiFuh /dev/svnd0a on /admin/SiFuh  /dev/svnd1a on /admin/SiFuh/lsf04:24
SiFuh4.6G and 9.8G04:24
*** surround1r has joined #crux04:26
*** surrounder has quit IRC04:26
Romsterheh a few of them too.04:26
Romsterkeep your pron in them eh <<04:26
Romsterliar <<04:27
SiFuhi got shit loads of data i don't want Ayzeooh finding out about ;-)04:27
Romsterso we using 2048 bit keys or stronger.04:27
SiFuhobviously i know how to spell it ;-)04:27
Romsteroftern wonder if a huge cluster would crak that stuff.04:28
SiFuhhaha notebook can't even boot without a usb flash drive, concealed partitions, key file, looped, and yeah 2048 bit blowfish04:28
SiFuhand that's just the start04:28
Romsteromg someone is parranoid <<04:28
SiFuhi have dummy home accounts also, and everything under the sun, for distration.. to make it more difficult to find out the real way to use it04:28
Rotwangnice :}04:29
Romsterneat idea.04:29
Romsterso they may think you got clean boring data.04:29
Romsterwhat ever happens if the usb drive dies <<04:30
SiFuhexactly, all disks brand new. zero'd 12 times. Random 3th, zerod again. Then once the system is cleanly installed. It is copied direct to the clean drive, so no dummy or temp files left laying around. Tmpfs is mfs and encrypted swapfs is also encrypted04:30
Romsteror you got yourself covered there too.04:30
SiFuhi know the key..  its a passage (paragrapgh) from a certain book, certain page.. certain number of lines down..04:31
RotwangSiFuh: what kind of data do ypu have?04:31
Romsterah if you got that book handy or can remember it.04:31
SiFuhin that paragrapgh is also a number. That number corresponds to how many loops to run the key04:31
Romstermaybe the bible <<04:31
Rotwanghyperspace prototipe drive plans or sth?04:32
SiFuhi can remember the book, and page info because of a number code..04:32
SiFuhexample  48 94 2 could mean page 48 line 94 2 paragraghs04:32
SiFuhbible, kuran, torah are good books actually.04:32
SiFuhbut most people assume them first.04:33
treachSiFuh: you should have a look at btrfs, it's not "just another filesystem".04:33
SiFuhI'd rather do something like  lasts month underwear specials from myers catalogue04:33
SiFuhor a newspaper04:33
SiFuhtreach i am in #brtfs :-)04:33
treachbut if you're a nerd, they'd assume the hitchhikers guide to the galaxy first. :)04:33
SiFuhshit.. unfortunately, i have the radio version, 6 epeisode bbc version and the shit movie :-P04:34
SiFuhi'd rather use Mossad's Explosivfe Handbook04:34
SiFuhor a book on anarchy04:34
lucifer4ulast one is better :)04:35
SiFuhanother good book,  "Every woman" haha04:35
treach"Crux handbook". ;)04:35
treachshould be inconspicious enough. :D04:35
SiFuhhaha kind of like Japanese Cyphers using english instead of japanese then coded04:36
SiFuhtook poor edgar alan poe to figure that out04:36
SiFuhInternational Hacking Laws would be a good choice04:37
SiFuhor the GNU or BSD licence04:37
*** Orby has joined #crux04:37
SiFuhto store your mp3s encrypted04:37
Orbyhello :)04:37
SiFuhhhi Orby04:37
SiFuhactually the bible could be considered a good choice Romster since the book will never die.. But it doesn't work well, if you didn't decide which version :-P04:38
SiFuhSun Tsu's art of war would be a great choice04:39
SiFuhSomething illuminati, that way if the government gfigures it out.. They will consider you a friend04:39
treachwell, it would still be a bad choice, since it's a pretty obvious one, and there are only a limited number of editions.04:39
SiFuhbook of mormon :-)04:40
RomsterSiFuh, yeah too many revisions.04:40
SiFuhchoose the Brethen one, it's non computer related. It won't make sense04:40
Romsterheck if it's anyone that dosn't make sense it's me <<04:41
SiFuhthat's ok, treach can't spell either04:41
SiFuh[20ú35 46]ø treach> should be inconspicious enough. :D04:41
*** Rotwang has quit IRC04:41
treachpardon me for not bothering with the dictionary. :/04:42
SiFuhRomster:  I assume you would have to concentrate very hard typing with 1 finger, to make sure you manage to type every character, case, punctuation and space exactly as the book has :-)04:43
SiFuhI have been thinking of typing up a script for Romsters' xchat so that it will auto spell his words for us..04:43
SiFuhprobably call it "Romsters Dictionary - Translater"04:44
treachSiFuh: btw, romsters poor spelling isn't the biggest problem imo, it's his disregard of grammar.04:44
Romsterhah how can you know it's the right word for the grammar.04:44
treachit sometimes really throws me off.04:44
SiFuhactually, most western people never really learn grammar.04:44
Romstersome of my spellingis my crap typing04:44
SiFuhit comes automatically as they grow up. Sometimes is works, sometimes it doesn't your brain chooses as you grow older.04:45
Romsterthere i go missing a space.04:45
SiFuhRomster: you typing with the mouse?04:45
treachRomster: minor problem, but confusing "anything" and "something" for instance, sometimes gets really confusing04:45
SiFuh.. or anything04:46
SiFuhsometimes, something, someone types is something someone can't type because something, is wrong with someones typing.04:46
SiFuhjust chuck all the punctuation at the end..()"$04:47
* Romster boggles at the sentance.04:47
SiFuhi put those commas in Romster just to confuse you :-)04:48
Romsteryou forgot to capatalise the first letter of each sentance!04:48
SiFuhI. Am. Sorry. I. Will. Try. Harder. Next. Time.04:48
RomsterHah now you have fragments of a sentance.04:49
SiFuhHey Romster, remember the old days of typing? You had to put 2 spaces at the end of every sentence.04:49
treachSiFuh: he won't get that, you should say "I. Are". ;)04:49
RomsterAnd this is now losing the wow factory.04:49
Romsterah no..04:50
treach"The wow starts now". :P04:50
Romstereh ."04:50
*** surround1r has quit IRC04:50
treachnever understood why you'd need vista for that though. :D04:50
SiFuhand you had special quotes. One upside down, the other right way up. Kind of like Spanish with an upside down question mark at the start of a question and a right way one up at the end.04:50
treachWho, I?04:51
treachah, nm04:51
SiFuhhaha I am so lazy, if I want ascii characters, I still do  'head -n 1000 /dev/wd0c |more04:52
*** surrounder has joined #crux04:52
SiFuh¨Who, I?04:52
SiFuh`La la la '04:53
*** RedShift has quit IRC04:53
treachwell, if I put funky text on your screen it might be because this is irssi.. on windows. :p04:54
SiFuh¨Windows, has a random funky text feature?04:54
treachanything about it that isn't random?04:55
SiFuhCrashing ;-)04:55
SiFuhIt Crashes like a clock ticks04:55
treachhasn't crashed yet here04:55
SiFuhyoufrr not using it properly then. :-P04:55
treachprobably not.04:56
SiFuhprobably running nothing but putty04:56
RomsterHeh, Vista is only OK for text. Never any good for graphics.04:57
SiFuhon the desktop of my friends windows xp pc I have a small script that runs the command  'shutdown /a'04:57
SiFuhjust incase the computer decides to power off randomly04:57
SiFuhi can abort it04:57
RomsterUou mean the RPC worm <<04:57
Romstercrap i always do a key typo.04:57
*** vico has joined #crux04:57
Romsteryo vico04:57
SiFuhbut i learned this, when the rpc worm was out.04:57
vicoRomster: moring :-)04:58
SiFuhvico: afternoon04:58
Romsterturn the rpc service off simple as that.04:58
Romsterevening <<04:58
SiFuhand then the computer will never run04:58
Romsterit's a unneeded service.04:58
Romsterin most cases.04:58
SiFuhYou have performed an illegal operation. You modified windows services. Bam! Bluescreen04:58
treachtry turn it off Romster and you'll see how unneeded it is..04:59
SiFuhif i disable rpc, it won't start, the computer that is.04:59
treachit used to do that when I tried it a few years ago. but shitloads of programs won't work05:00
Romsteractually it was the remote indexing..05:00
SiFuhRomster has quit.. (connection reset by queer)05:00
Romsteri'll show you queer but i'd disgust the entire channel so i'll pass on that <<05:00 ?05:01
Romsterthat's been around and tubgirl.05:01
SiFuhin my old script kiddie days and sub 7. I use to always launch the browser with
SiFuhdisgust them so much that they would offline. ANd I could use their dial up account with out being disconnceted by them trying to dial in.05:02
SiFuhI didn't say that out loud did i?05:02
treachYou cannot turn off RPC and expect a Windows system to work. Despite05:04
treachbeing called "Remote Procedure Call", many local functions depend on RPC05:04
treachto work (minor things like event logging, registry access, file property05:04
treachreading, and authentication).05:04
RomsterSiFuh, hah.05:04
Romstertreach, hrmm dunno whati did then but it blocked the worm.05:05
SiFuhshould change the name to  LPC Local Procedure Call05:05
SiFuhRomster: i just installed the patch :-P05:05
Romsteryeah i did that when i had windows.05:05
Romsterbut to stay on long enough to get the patch.05:06
treachmore like fucking "Deal with with stuff I don't know what to with Call"05:06
SiFuhsomething windows is good at, is providing fast patches. Just once you install it, you will have a new vulnerability.05:06
SiFuhRomster: just put the firewall up, and download the patch :-P05:06
*** lasso|qt_ is now known as lasso|qt05:07
SiFuhhaha, i had to do that with the window machines in Khon Kaen University. All techies had to go to all departments and do it. Pissed me off, since I was the Unix Admin.05:07
Romsterheh install patches for even shit ya don't even use.05:07
SiFuhEver seen the Itunes user aggremanet?05:07
treachhaha "agreement" :p05:08
SiFuhwait i will find it05:08
treachepic fail, SiFuh ;)05:08
SiFuh" You also agree that you will not use these products for ...  the development, design, manufacture or production of missiles, or nuclear, chemical or biological weapons."05:09
SiFuhiTunes User License Agreement.05:09
treachah, the "write any stupid shit you can come up with license"05:10
SiFuhCustomer support. "Hello, I can't figure out how to launch this ICBM from my copy of itunes.."05:10
SiFuhhonestly, i don't think a nuclear scientist with evil ideas in his mind, is going to read that and decide otherwise.05:11
treachEULAs are the epithome of stupidity.05:11
*** sepen has quit IRC05:11
SiFuhkind of like confiscating guns. Only the law abiding citizens will give them up.05:11
treachno, not if you give anyone found with a gun a mandantory hanging.05:12
SiFuhalthough i do beleive, that the amount of stupid people in Australia, should not be carrying guns. :-)05:12
* SiFuh goes to find the anarchists handbook :-P05:13
SiFuhstill remember my highschool days, and tim running over to show gif porn images in dos05:14
SiFuhthat was a classic05:14
SiFuhBy accepting this brick through your window, you accept it as is and agree to my disclaimer or all warranties, express or implied, as well as disclaimers of all liability, direct, indirect, consequential or incidental, that may arise from t05:24
SiFuhhe installation of this brick into your building.05:25
*** sepen has joined #crux05:29
*** RedShift has joined #crux05:33
lucifer4uSo as i understood i can mkdir /ports; echo "prtdir /ports" >> /etc/prt-get.conf; and if i will do prt-get search portname it will look at my /ports too?05:34
treachas long as your ports isn't duplicates of other ports already available.05:39
lucifer4uit is not05:40
namenlosfirst attempt do visualize crux port dependencies with graphviz:
pitilloRomster, I don't understand it very well05:56
Romsterpretty much what treach pointed out that tripwire does, monitor files for change.05:59
lucifer4unamenlos: on my system it prints only digraph dependenies { label="CRUX port dependencies"; }06:00
pitilloRomster, ummm in a safe enviroment? (I will take a look to tripwire)06:01
Romsteron the whole system i was thinking.06:01
namenloslucifer4u: " core opt contrib" will print the dependency graph for core, opt and contrib.06:02
lucifer4uoh. i got it06:02
pitilloRomster, ah ok, I was mixing concepts06:02
Romsterya how how the pre/post scripts do extra stuff you then do a pkgrm and it says can't remove directory.06:03
Romsterso then the system is dirty..06:03
namenlosbut the resulting png is very messy (confusing, and so on), because there are so many dependencies.06:03
pitillowell, may be it's used by another port too06:03
Romsterthat's the other issue.06:04
pitillo(not all cases and you can be right telling that can be dirty)06:04
Romsterbut snap shot it before and after ports are installed.06:04
namenloslucifer4u: it would be neat to have something like:
pitilloRomster, interesting06:04
Romsterand count what ports modify a file.06:04
namenloslucifer4u: but i got no idea, how to achieve this...06:04
Romsterand if all them ports are removed then that file goes too.06:05
Romsteri've been seeing it in my chroot.06:05
pitilloyeah, I see your point, try to keep track of all files installed by a port, taking snapshots before and after a build06:05
Romsterafter installing and then pkgrm still leaves files behind.06:05
Romsterand removing the ones in the footprint as there already tracked.06:06
*** mrks has joined #crux06:06
pitilloRomster, yeah, me too under the VM and that is one reason why I am doubting about my reports06:06
clickonceDo you get footprint mismatches when you prt-get depinst iproute2?06:06
Romsterbut never remove the other found files untill all affected ports that touched that file are removed.06:06
Romsterhmm i'll check06:06
pitilloclickonce, I can verify it06:06
clickonceIt says sbin/{ifcfg,ip,routef,routel,rtmon,rtpr,tc} is missing..06:06
lucifer4unamenlos: bash contrib | grep //06:07
lucifer4unamenlos:  is it normal?06:07
Romsterpitillo, i have a idea i'll test out.06:08
lucifer4unamenlos: and also this: bash contrib | grep "{$version}"06:09
Romsteriproute2#2.6.22-070710-1.pkg.tar.gz built fine on a core only system.06:09
namenloslucifer4u: what do you want to grep? i would use core opt > /tmp/deps.dot06:09
pitilloRomster, feel free to comment me whatever and if I can help in something, I will try06:09
clickonceThis is strange...06:09
clickonceWhat iproute2 version?06:10
Romsterclickonce, sure you arn't missing something and check with revdep for broken links to librarys?06:10
Romsterclickonce, the version is above06:10
Romsteror is there a new version out?06:10
clickonce2.6.19 is what I have.06:10
clickonceLatest Crux2.306:10
lucifer4unamenlos: your scipt produced line: //${version}.tar.gz) -> p5_extutils_depends;06:11
Romstergawd i'm on 2.406:11
clickonceIt's my firewall, I'd rather not sysup it too often. :)06:11
lucifer4unamenlos:  i thought it is not right output.. that is why i asked you06:11
Romstermy firewall is on 2.4 too <<06:11
namenloslucifer4u: for which repository?06:12
namenloslucifer4u: no, this is not intented...06:12
Romsteri could tst in 2.3 but i haven't added a easy command line option for that to my safe-build script yet.06:12
clickonceIt says "TC schedulers \n ATM no" in the beginning/06:12
clickonceand I really need this now since my GF doesn't understand the meaning of "conserving bandwidth for VoIP" :)06:13
clickonceI'll give her 1kbit/s while my Linksys phones get the rest of the 100mbit/s total :P06:13
pitilloclickonce, , here was built fine too06:13
Romsteri'll try a 2.3 system not sure how broken my script will get06:14
clickoncePerhaps I need something in-kernel.06:15
pitilloummm clickonce are you using 2.4 branches in a 2.3 system?06:15
clickonceports -u says crux-2.306:16
namenlosthis are the dependencies for core and opt: ;)06:16
*** f1y has joined #crux06:16
Romsterok starting a crux-2.3 system.06:16
clickonceThanks! :)06:16
pitilloclickonce, ok, I have no clue about, sorry.06:16
Romsternamenlos, nice but could it be made to fit the screen a bit better.06:17
Romsterhrmm installing ports tree i better check that stage that i'm on 2.3 then ports -u06:18
namenlosRomster: sure, but i am sure, you then couldn't read anything.06:18
Romsterwell it's very spaced out now i didn't mean hugely compress it but looks like some slack.06:19
Romsterhmm then again their is unreadability in there.06:19
Romsterfirefox flash mplayer around there it's hard to see.06:20
Romster# crux06:20
RomsterCRUX version 2.306:20
Romsterok i'm in action <<06:20
clickonceSweet ;)06:20
Romsteras i thought need todo a ports -u06:21
*** mrks_ has quit IRC06:23
lucifer4unamenlos: hm. script should produce xxx -> yyy without {$version} stuff. right?06:23
Romsterclickonce, =======> Building '/usr/ports/packages/iproute2#2.6.19-061214-1.pkg.tar.gz' succeeded.06:24
namenloslucifer4u: yes06:25
clickonceRomster: This is strange..06:25
Romsteranything else i can test?06:25
clickonceRomster: It does include some Kernel stuff, perhaps I don't have the proper modules.06:25
Romsterwhat kernel version ?06:25
lucifer4unamenlos: execute contrib | grep "{$version}"06:27
Romsterwhy arn't you on 2.6.16?06:29
namenloslucifer4u: i found the problem, thx06:29
namenlosi will post a corrected version06:29
clickonceRomster: I haven't updated the kernel :)06:30
Romsterand unpacking to 2.6.6 and i'll test.06:30
Romsteri notice.06:30
clickonceWell, I'm to get a new nano-ITX machine which I will use as firewall.06:30
clickonceI'll install 2.4 on that one instead.06:30
Romsteri'm defently adding a crux version command line option for 2.3/2.4 and later it'll work on 2.506:30
clickonceTo what? ports -u?06:31
Romsterto my safe-build script and to make it keep seperate ports trees for 2.3 and 2.406:32
Romsteratm it uses the system ports.06:32
clickonceah :)06:32
Romsterso have todo a ports -u06:32
Romsterbut i should keep them seperate.06:32
Romsterclickonce, safe-build in my romster repo it's a wrapper for chroot currently might go the VM way i know pitillo would like that <<06:33
Romsterok downloading kernel patches to get to such a old kernel.06:33
clickonceah, I see :)06:33
Romster2.6.15 was my oldist <<06:33
Romsterketchup works like a charm06:33
Romsterit's buggy but works.06:34
Romsteri got more fixes i'm doing right now infact it's a work in progress.06:34
clickonceVoIP via Belking WLAN AP doesn't work at all :P06:34
clickonceSound quality is like 1bit/s music :P06:35
Romsteri wouldn't be suprised.06:35
Romsterhope you can wait for awhile as i download these kernel patches.06:35
clickonceWell, I just grabbed it to test the system if my ISP blocked SIP. But they didn't so I'll upgrade to something better, wired SIP phones. :)06:35
clickonceNo rush. :)06:35
Romsteri plean to evently have a build bot to test all ports upon a version update.06:36
Romsterto catch most of the common problems we get.06:37
lucifer4udoes anybody change his /etc/pkgmk.conf ?06:37
clickonceYou should release that system. :)06:37
Romsterwhile sepen is on the hunt for verifying ports, and pitillo is working in a VM doing about the same as me in a chroot wrapper.06:37
f1ylucifer4u: yes, i did06:37
Romsterand now we have namenlos making a nice grapgh of dependencys :)06:38
clickonceNice :)06:38
pitilloRomster, sepen is working hard, I am trying to help in some ways. I think soon we will tell you something interesting, btw, IMO it's nice to have differents ways to do things06:38
pitillowell, I am stuck with pinentry atm... I think I will continue this afternoon06:40
Romsterah yes and prediatorfreak is trying to get sha256sum into pkgutils.06:40
Romsterand i'm geting lzma support in pkgutils and i'm working on a patch to add in xdelta support.06:41
lucifer4uRomster:  i think i have one interesting idea. i will try to implement int today06:41
clickonceBtw, I'm actually considering releaseing my Cono system as GPL or at-least semi-GPL :)06:41
Romsterwill drasicly reduce update and downlaod time.06:41
Romsterlucifer4u, what's the idea?06:41
lucifer4uRomster: hehe. you actually told it :006:41
lucifer4uhehe. i thought nobody is working in that way ..06:42
lucifer4uthat is why i was asking about /etc/pkgmk.conf06:42
Romsteri'm thinking for low bandwidth users. for xdelta and space saving.06:42
lucifer4ufor different FLAGS different packages should be created06:42
namenlosunfortunately sf doesn't have it's build farm any more, so we could have tested it there...06:42
Romstereh not  the flags idea...06:43
lucifer4uRomster:  what is the current idea?06:43
lucifer4uto create xdelta for sources?06:43
Romsterdepends what yor talking about i got a few.06:43
lucifer4uwell you told that you trying to add xdelta support .. where will you use it?06:44
Romstertry this for size wise
Romsterin pkgutils in pkgmk06:44
treachmmh, xdeltas are good, but then you'll probably end up hosting all sources too.06:44
lucifer4ui have another idea. if everybody will like it i can implement it..06:45
Romstersee the diference instead of 5.5MB every time it's a mear ~100kb per a version change. of course that varries on how big the changes are.06:45
Romstertreach, got a idea on that torrent them <<06:45
lucifer4uwe have different sources.. and different FLAGS06:45
treachI know, suse is already uses xdeltas. :)06:45
* Romster should look at suse.06:46
treachfor binary packages though.06:46
lucifer4uso we can create packages06:46
treachlucifer4u: there's already a dist for that.06:46
treachit's called arch, I think06:46
Romsterwell i'm doing it at the source level06:47
namenlosi have updated the image, but it is still juge (~4000 x ~4000 px)06:47
treachRomster: I understood that, but I'd be careful if I were you.06:47
f1ytreach: true, arch is package distro based on crux mainly06:47
Romsternamenlos, ah well it's still nice to look at.06:47
Romstertreach, reason?06:47
lucifer4utreach: hm.. so it is not good if i will add binary packages support?06:47
pitillolucifer4u, in a source based distro? IMO no, btw if you think it's important, you can spend time implementing it and using it by your own06:48
treachlucifer4u: it's kind of pointless, IMO06:48
treachif you want binaries, use arch. Or debian. Or suse. Or whatever...06:49
Romsterwhich he had not modified, hmm06:49
lucifer4uhm what is the difference between creation of package on your machine and creation of package on the farm?06:49
treachlucifer4u: build time detected deps for instance06:50
lucifer4uhehe. i forgot about build time dependencies..06:52
lucifer4uso right - idea is pointless06:52
* treach chalks up another one. :)06:53
Romstertreach, i can't se that being a big issue. to comply with.06:53
treachthat wasn't the point I tried to make.06:53
treachthe point was that there are alot of stupid traps to get caught in if you decide to do anything like that.06:54
Romsteri see.06:54
Romsterwell i'm providing all the code and i'm trying to work my idea which by the way isn't easy.06:54
Romsterthen to try and knwo every single gotchya out there.06:55
Romsterclickonce, compiling agenst kernel 2.6.6 now06:58
treachuhg? Doing archeologics?06:59
Romsterclickonce, is using a 2.3 crux system on a firewall pc role on that old kernel.06:59
Romsterleats i arn't touching 0.0.1 <<06:59
treachleast ;)07:00
Romsterand =======> Building '/usr/ports/packages/iproute2#2.6.19-061214-1.pkg.tar.gz' succeeded.07:00
lucifer4uRomster: so as i understood from your imagemagick directory example you use xdelta on sources?07:00
Romsterclickonce, you got serious issues infact i'll send you my built package?07:00
treachwell, 2.6.6 is OLD... it's even older than debian stable.. :>07:00
treachI wonder what kind of bugs hide in it. :/07:01
Romsterno idea..07:01
Romsteri hhave lateist on my firewall.07:01
* Romster pokes clickonce 07:02
treachyou should try clicking on him. ;)07:02
* Romster clicks on clickonce 07:02
Romstershould i double click <<07:02
Romsterguess he is after food or something.07:03
treachwork I guess.07:03
treachI think he was from sweden too, and time here is 14.03 atm07:04
treach...just because I said that it changed to 14.04..07:04
*** destruct_ has joined #Crux07:08
Romsterok... now i got a few updates just go though more work fo rme.07:13
*** SiFuh_ has joined #Crux07:16
*** destruct has quit IRC07:18
Romsterand the channel died heh.07:24
Romstercoffee time.07:24
*** destruct_ is now known as destruct07:24
*** SiFuh has quit IRC07:29
*** jdolan_ has joined #crux07:48
pitillohere time to start making more tests...08:02
Romsteroh nice borked Makefiles are fun.08:06
pitilloRomster, you are in other level ...08:08
Romstersay again i'm attacking a higher level than you have been too?08:09
pitilloummm I think you are in other level, may be lower one. I am with only Pkgfiles and checking deps. May be one day I will be in that level too08:11
Romsteri'm pusing my luck <<08:12
Romsterbut i wont learn if i don't try.08:12
pitilloI don't know if you are pushing it or not, I can see only that you are making a very good job...08:13
pitillogood work in all senses08:13
*** treach has quit IRC08:19
Romsterpitillo, i'm slwoly edercating /usr/X11R6 paths08:19
Romsteras they are now /usr/lib and /usr/include/X1108:19
*** treach has joined #crux08:20
pitilloummm here at letter g in opt ports... bit by bit08:20
Romsterthis is fun a conditional that makes make 'No rule to make target' really smart dev made this Makefile!08:21
namenloshi, does anyone here run a 2.6.24 kernel?08:23
Romsteri've found one bug in UDF08:24
Romsteri think it's the kernel driver.08:24
pitillonamenlos, wich release? or doesn't matter?08:24
f1yi have problems with cd/dvd support on 2.6.2408:24
namenlosyou got any problems with that?08:24
namenlospitillo: .208:24
f1ythe same kernel config and many infos that hdc drive not ready -.-08:25
pitillonamenlos, I have it here at work in a laptop, wich kind of problems?08:25
namenlospitillo: somehow /proc/sys/kernel/hotplug doesn't get created (at lesast it seems so)08:25
Romsteronly problem i have is has a bug where mounting a UDF DVD makes all directoys have no permissions set.08:25
Romsterother than saying it's a directory08:25
Romsterall files have the right permissions.08:25
namenlospitillo: but i got CONFIG_HOTPLUG=y...08:25
Romsterah you msut be missing something else too08:26
pitillonamenlos, I don't know if this makes sense for you, -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 Feb 21 15:28 /proc/sys/kernel/hotplug08:26
pitillonamenlos, checking08:26
pitillonamenlos, yes, I have it and some more08:26
Romstermy .config08:26
Romsteri updated to 24.2 but i'm stil on 24.1 untill i can be bothered to reboot.08:27
pitillogetting your usefull util wgetpaste :)08:27
pitillohere is mine, if this can help you namenlos :
Romstersomeone else wrote that and i saw it here so i ported it.08:30
Romstervery handy when stuck in console.08:31
namenlosthx for the configs08:31
Romstersuck on that Makefile i win again <<08:31
namenlosare those minimal configs or the crux one carried on?08:31
Romstercrux one highly modifyed for my system but i think it's still got some bloat.08:32
Romsterbut it's made for desktop low latency08:32
Romsteri have a firewall config if that would suit you better.08:32
namenloshere i am trying to start a plain 2.6.24 one, with only sata enabled.08:33
Romsterdid you enable scsi disks?08:33
Romsteryou'll need that.08:33
namenlosbut somehow it stops in /sbin/start_udev08:34
pitilloyeah Romster, I mean the port :)08:34
namenlosotherwise i cant choose my sata controler...08:34
pitillonamenlos, mine is a try to be minimal for my computer.... but I think it's only a try08:34
Romsterwell just go over your config and compare it to pitillo and mine and try one option at a time08:35
namenlossomehow, when i boot everything seems to go right, but in the udev script it claims, that there is no /proc/sys/kernel/hotplug...08:35
Romsternamenlos, you are using libata?08:35
namenlosRomster: no idea08:35
namenloshow can i check that?08:36
RomsterCONFIG_ATA=y i think.08:36
namenloswhile bootup it shows /dev/sda*08:37
Romsterthe newer libata system not the depreciated system.08:37
*** lucifer4u has quit IRC08:38
namenlosRomster: CONFIG_ATA is enabled08:38
Romsterwell thats a start08:38
namenlosRomster: i found the helper, too, but in start_udev it is reset ;)08:39
Romsterand you are sure CONFIG_SCSI=y is set.08:40
Romsteri remember having tht off or some scsi option and my pc wouldn't mount my root fs08:41
Romsterand flashed to leds on my keyboard.08:41
namenlosit is enabled. otherwise it would claim (imho), that it can't find the mount command08:43
namenlosbut it only cries about the hotplug file...08:43
namenloslater something about /dev/null, but i think this is because of the missing udev...08:44
Romsteryeah i think hotplug is udev related.08:44
Romsterjsut keep comparing the configs.08:45
Romsteryou'll find it evently.08:45
Romstermight be in with processor stuff maybe.08:45
Romsteryou do have /proc enabled?08:45
namenlosyes, /proc is enabled...08:46
namenloscan someone shoot me?08:49
namenlosIDE interface: Intel Corporation 82801FBM (ICH6M) SATA Controller (rev 03)08:49
namenlosit is ide AND scsi???08:49
pitilloit´s sata, isn't it? IDE interface: Intel Corporation 82801GBM/GHM (ICH7 Family) SATA IDE Controller (rev 01) that's mine08:52
namenlosi got no idea. atm i am trying this intel ata/ide driver...08:53
namenlosbut shouldn't it be fine, if it can find the correct sda* devices?08:54
namenlosand it also found the mount command..08:54
namenloshm, it seems, that the first gen sata controllers used this ide stuff...08:57
*** namenlos has quit IRC09:04
*** namenlos has joined #crux09:10
*** f1y has quit IRC09:14
*** Rotwang has joined #crux09:18
*** predatorfreak has joined #crux09:19
*** lucifer4u has joined #crux09:23
lucifer4uHello again :)09:23
*** RedShift has quit IRC09:26
lucifer4uprt-get search mplayer09:48
lucifer4uWho know good console music player?09:49
thrice`cmus is OK.  mpd + ncmpc is another option09:51
mrkslucifer4u: cmus, mocp09:53
lucifer4ugreat. i will try it now. thank you09:53
lucifer4u:( prt-get install cmus failed..09:57
lucifer4umissing 4 libraries09:58
predatorfreakprt-get depinst cmus09:58
predatorfreakProbably missing a dep09:58
lucifer4uprt-get deptree cmus give 0 lines09:58
lucifer4uFootprint missmatch09:58
predatorfreakWell then the packager/maintainer fucked up.09:58
predatorfreaklucifer4u: prt-get install -if cmus09:59
lucifer4uhehe. is it normal? maybe i should recreate port for it?09:59
lucifer4ui mean is it normal ingore footprint?09:59
predatorfreaklucifer4u: Stupid footprint mismatches are common10:00
pitilloI openned a ticket on flyspray about cmus, waiting for comments about10:02
*** DarkNekros has joined #crux10:02
predatorfreakThey're all nice-to-have...10:02
*** DarkNekros_ has joined #crux10:02
*** DarkNekros_ has quit IRC10:02
predatorfreakNot even at least alsa-lib is required...10:02
*** RedShift has joined #crux10:05
*** maxus has joined #crux10:07
Romster$ warsow10:08
RomsterError: Executable for system 'i386' not found10:08
Romsterhkjghla driving me nuts...10:08
Romsteri've got the same footprint of the previous version hmmz10:10
*** jaeger has joined #crux10:14
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o jaeger10:14
pitillopredatorfreak, then why not package it only with the real dep and let the footprint advise the user with NEW warnings instead of MISSING? what do you think?10:25
predatorfreakpitillo: I think "Bad Packager"10:25
pitillobad packaging in that case, not bad packager in general.10:26
Romsterheh even i'm a bad packager i need to trim depends on lines.10:26
Romsterok new error i think i'll have this sorted.10:26
predatorfreakpitillo: Don't leave out the deps on something if you build it with certain depends and expect it to be built that way.10:26
predatorfreakRomster: and we forgive you.10:27
predatorfreakRomster: You need your time to feast on human flesh :)10:27
pitillopredatorfreak, hard to understand, reading carefully10:27
predatorfreakpitillo: If the packager builds cmus with alsa support, vorbis support, etc10:28
predatorfreakList those as deps10:28
pitillopredatorfreak, I think a clean and minimal system must be used for packagin10:28
predatorfreakpitillo: If it's in the footprint it should be listed as a dep.10:28
pitillopredatorfreak, thank you, understood. That is what I want to say in the ticket, btw, IMO is better to keep the less deps (real deps) for a port10:29
pitillopredatorfreak, that is the point10:29
predatorfreakYeah, I agree.10:29
Romsterpredatorfreak, right except i'll soon be building all ports in a clean env.10:29
pitilloRomster, you and more people10:29
predatorfreakI'm just saying, if cmus is being packaged with say alsa+vorbis+mp3+flac enabled10:29
predatorfreakand their plugins are in the .footprin10:29
pitillolist them10:29
predatorfreakOtherwise you can always just manually delete the plugins from the .footprint10:30
predatorfreakor build in a clean environment :)10:30
pitilloyeah, I got your point and I think it's good, but I need to talk about real deps, and let the user check if he wants more than the real deps (optional, nice to have, or whatever used in Pkgfiles)10:30
predatorfreakpitillo: Yes.10:31
pitillopredatorfreak, yeah, but I think we are missing some of the "power" of footprints10:31
haolegood day, guys10:31
lucifer4uhello haole10:31
haoleim reading a brazillian review of crux10:31
haoleit's ridiculous10:31
haolethey are saying bad things about it that makes no sense! why do they do this?10:32
pitilloa missing warning will be a real warning/error, and then a new warning can be only that, telling the users: "you are building with more that the real needed"10:32
treachhardly surprising, since it's not ubuntu. :)10:32
predatorfreakpitillo: Romster made a patch for that :P10:32
haolethey are saying that the footprints are useless and just get in the way, and that if u forget to update a footprint when u customize a package, you have to recompile everything again10:32
pitillopredatorfreak, I know and that is the point of keeping real info on footprints10:32
predatorfreakhaole: Lies.10:32
Romsteri think pitillo saw it.10:32
haolethe person that wrote the review NEVER read prt-get's man page10:32
predatorfreakhaole: Plus.10:33
predatorfreakpkgmk -uf doesn't require a rebuild :)10:33
haoleyes, i thought that10:33
Romsterthe package is made just says error.10:33
pitillopowerfull tools...10:33
predatorfreakBecause the footprint doesn't match10:33
Romsterbut i changed new fiels to a warning.10:34
haolethat's what im saying: the guy who wrote this didn't spend 5 minutes with the distro10:34
predatorfreakRomster: I'll probably add the return value thing proposed on the ML10:34
treachhaole: so? He's a lazy bum looking for something that looks like everything else he's used.10:34
Romsterthen soemone says about a signal to prt-get to show this but there is no other signals otu of pkgmk what so ever but signal 1 error10:34
predatorfreakShould just be a matter of say adding return 2 or something10:34
pitilloRomster, that patch has sense packaging in a clean/minimal enviroment?10:34
Romsteryeah it changes new files to a warning10:35
predatorfreakRomster: Just exit with a signal of 2 or something10:35
Romsterbut missing files is still a error.10:35
Romsterthat would stop the script i'd have to return 2?10:35
pitilloRomster, new files are warnings and footprints updated automatically?10:35
predatorfreakwell, RETURN a signal of 2.10:35
Romsterah yeah bit dumb though 1 error 2 warning.10:36
predatorfreakI'm not even sure if a non-exiting signal is POSSIBLE in shell script to be perfectly honest10:36
Romster1 should eb warning 2 error.10:36
predatorfreakA function can return a signal10:36
Romsteri alwasy tought only exit did.10:36
predatorfreakand signal 1 is POSIX specs for error10:36
predatorfreakNah, in a function, return BLAH = return with signal10:37
Romsteruseally anthing above 0 is a error.10:37
predatorfreakRomster: No.10:37
predatorfreakCertain ones have special meanings.10:37
predatorfreakIf I remember right, shit like 127 is access error or something like that.10:37
Romsterso 2 is warning?10:37
predatorfreakI dunno.10:37
Romsterhmmz we need a chat if that is the case.10:37
predatorfreakI don't think there's a POSIX spec one for warning10:37
predatorfreakAll I know is generic error is signal 110:38
haolethe guy from review also said that crux packages are outdated, most of them are not mainteined and that, if something won't work, u won't get support10:38
haolethis is the single best channel for linux support i've ever seen10:38
predatorfreakhaole: Uhh whut?10:38
haoleand my packages are also updated10:38
predatorfreakhaole: If my ports were out of date or busted.10:38
Romsterout dated wtf...10:39
predatorfreakFeel free to come on here and bitch at me10:39
predatorfreakor e-mail me...10:39
predatorfreakCRUX is pretty good on up-to-dateness10:39
haoleyes, im gonna answer to that guy and tell people the thruth10:39
Romsterwont get support bah bullcrap.10:39
predatorfreakExcluding CORE utilities like binutils/glibc/gcc10:39
predatorfreakWe change those every new release though10:39
Romsteri already bitched at predatorfreak *hides* <<10:39
predatorfreakWhich is what EVERY OTHER distro BESIDES Gentoo does.10:39
predatorfreakRomster: and I bit your head off in return :P10:40
haolea guy made a comment after that one, saying that the installation crashed when he tryied to install crux... but he looked into it, and found out that his ide controller wasn't supported on the default install... then he fixed it and said that it was a great distro10:41
joacimI am sure the gentoo devs have their reasons10:41
haolewhat a difference...10:41
predatorfreakjoacim: Gentoo is a moving target10:41
predatorfreakThey don't do formal releases10:41
predatorfreakJust snapshots and refreshed ISOs basically10:41
predatorfreakCRUX is semi-moving.10:42
predatorfreakPackages are updated and kept current, excluding core packages10:42
predatorfreakWhich change per-release.10:42
Romsterhaole, i thinki remember reading that....10:43
haoleRomster, crux is a distro aimed at experienced users... it is not meant to people that doesn't wanna learn, people that just wanna use10:45
haolefor those, they should use ubuntu or fedora10:45
haolepeople can't see that different distros have different applications10:45
haoleapplications as of in uses10:45
predatorfreakhaole: or Windows!10:45
predatorfreak(Sorry, had to be said)10:45
haoleUbuntu is almost windows, now10:45
haolewhen he updates the system with a little thing in the systray, it asks u to reboot the computer10:46
Romsteryeah really i see it in #winehq all the time10:46
haolethat is so windows to me10:46
Romsterit's a plauge10:46
Romsterbloody hell warsow is asking for
thrice`did you remove curl? :-)10:47
Romsternah i got so.410:47
joacimwarsow sucks.. I tried it once and it was impossible to kill experienced players10:47
Romsterso i wonder if i can get by with a symlink or i need the older verison.10:47
predatorfreakjoacim: Welcome to strategy games!10:47
thrice`Romster: revdep didn't find it?10:48
Romsterway new version is out i'm working on a port...10:48
Romsternah it's a new port that file dosn't exist.10:48
predatorfreakIt's basically the same for EVERY strategy game10:48
Romsterwell not new but new version.10:48
joacimOpenTTD ftw =)10:48
predatorfreakRomster: So it's new, but not new, but new?10:48
Romsterand uses a older curl..10:49
predatorfreakThe game has lessons on how to bunny hop..10:50
predatorfreakIf you can't bunny hop don't play FPS.10:50
joacimbunny hop *and* shoot is hard :p10:52
joacimI am fairly good in armyops and ut99/04 =)10:52
*** drijen has quit IRC10:55
*** mike_k has quit IRC10:56
haolenethack is the ONE GAME that u need to play11:05
haolethe others just can't beat it11:06
*** f1y has joined #crux11:21
*** namenlos has quit IRC11:30
*** errdil has quit IRC11:32
*** errdil has joined #crux11:33
*** namenlos has joined #crux11:36
namenloshm, back to my kernel problem: i think it got something todo with hotplug, but i don't have a clue, since CONFIG_HOTPLUG and CONFIG_PROC_FS are both =y.11:37
predatorfreaknamenlos: Problem is what again?11:39
*** acrux|ppc has joined #crux11:42
namenlospredatorfreak: i got no /proc/sys/kernel/hotplug file ;)11:43
predatorfreakI do, so you've got some mess-up :P11:43
predatorfreak#if defined(CONFIG_HOTPLUG) && defined(CONFIG_NET)11:44
predatorfreakCONFIG_HOTPLUG and CONFIG_NET need to be enabled11:44
predatorfreakOtherwise that doesn't get made11:44
namenloswhere did you get that from=?11:45
namenloswhy CONFIG_NET?11:45
predatorfreakSee kernel/sysctl.c 492-50211:45
predatorfreaknamenlos: Probably because of the fancy uevents shit and the dang thingiemabob I forget what it's called.11:45
predatorfreakudev and hotplug work via netlink these days, I believe11:46
namenlosthis could solve the problem, and clears up, why i didn't have this problem at home.11:47
namenlospredatorfreak: thanks. i will test it tomorrow11:48
predatorfreaknamenlos: I just fired up vim on kernel/sysctl.c11:48
predatorfreakand did /hotplug11:49
*** Viper_ has joined #crux11:49
predatorfreakFiguring shit like that out is all knowing where to look :)11:49
namenlosseems so.11:49
Romsterpredatorfreak, now find out why UDF don't work right for permissions on directorys <<11:49
namenlosbut i never would have look in sysctl.c11:49
Romstergrep the kernel source <<11:50
predatorfreakRomster: Bad spec/coding I'd say :P11:50
namenlosbut this could have written in the documentation of menuconfig...11:50
predatorfreaknamenlos: I've been raping errr "modifying" the kernel for awhile.11:50
predatorfreakI might not be a kernel coder, but I know enough to fix up stupid little problems to do what I do.11:51
*** clb has joined #crux11:54
predatorfreakRomster: Ooohhh.11:54
predatorfreakDo you have ssh?11:54
Romsterbut i'm behind a firewall.11:55
predatorfreakUser/password so I can root you eerrrrrrr11:55
predatorfreakDonate music11:55
Romsteri'll have to set something up i'm still clearing up my hdd onto dvd's hence i found out this UDF anoyance.11:55
*** Rotwang has quit IRC11:56
predatorfreakDamn I archive the weirdest e-mails...11:57
predatorfreakLike this one from someone I called a she-bitch on the internet claiming they have a penis..11:57
rehabdollhaha, post your mbox!11:58
predatorfreakrehabdoll: Nah....11:59
predatorfreakThat'd leave you with access to my godaddy account and shit11:59
predatorfreakAlong with funny e-mails from the Gentoo kernel maintainer...11:59
rehabdolljust the funny ones then :)12:00
*** acrux|pi1pici has quit IRC12:00
predatorfreakPerson sending it is a serious mental case.12:02
rehabdolltheres nothing in that anim. i dont like12:03
*** clb has joined #crux12:12
*** jaeger- has joined #crux12:15
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o jaeger-12:15
*** clb has joined #crux12:28
*** clb has joined #crux12:34
*** clb has joined #crux12:38
*** clb has joined #crux12:47
*** clb has joined #crux12:52
*** clb has joined #crux12:56
*** clb has joined #crux13:26
*** jaeger has joined #crux13:28
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o jaeger13:28
*** drijen has joined #crux13:30
tilman.sha256sum o_O13:56
predatorfreaktilman: Dowhatnow?14:00
tilmanjust saw romster put .sha256sum's in his ports (he removed them by now)14:01
predatorfreaktilman: Because both me and him are running my SHA256 patch for pkgutils.14:01
predatorfreakWhich I posted to flyspray.14:01
predatorfreakBut jue seems to hate it because it's SHA256.14:02
Romsterand we both have the warn on new files in footprint too.14:02
predatorfreak(If he has any technical details against it, he sure as fuck isn't voicing them)14:02
tilmanis actually away for a couple of weeks14:02
Romstermd5 is proven to have hash colisions.14:03
tilmanplease demonstrate how you produce a *tarball* with a md5 hash collision14:03
predatorfreaktilman: Before he left he bashed it heavily and I rebuffed.14:03
tilmanthat actually fools me into installing malware14:03
predatorfreaktilman: One sec, grabbing link.14:03
Romsterhere we go <<14:03
predatorfreakA malicious software writer could produce a malicious tarball that has the same MD5 sum as a proper tarball.14:04
predatorfreakDistributing the proper tarball to other developers as a test release and the malicious one as the public release.14:05
predatorfreakDevelopers wouldn't get infected, users would.14:05
predatorfreakSHA256 isn't susceptible to attack yet, which is why I added it onto the current MD5 method.14:06
predatorfreakPersonally, I think the BEST solution would be for developers to sign their tarballs with gpg and put that with every release14:07
predatorfreakBut hashsums are easier to transition from.14:07
Romsterpredatorfreak, wine does that now.14:07
predatorfreakRomster: As do kernel releases14:07
Romsterthe linux kernel too.14:08
Romstereh yeah ^^14:08
predatorfreakIt's an exception though14:08
predatorfreakNot the rule14:08
tilmani don't find the word 'tarball' on the .nl site you linked14:08
predatorfreaktilman: The same exact attack works on a tarball.14:08
predatorfreakThey use executables as their choice, but the same concept applies to tarballs, rpm's, deb's, whatever14:10
predatorfreakI remember bringing this up before, with a patch and I got the responses of "Nothing's wrong with MD5" and now here we are with attacks against it.14:11
tilmani didn't know about this yet14:11
predatorfreaktilman: It was before I ran off.14:12
tilmani meant chosen-prefix attacks on md514:12
predatorfreakWord apparently didn't travel much14:12
predatorfreakAny legitimate technical problems with the patch I provided (, I'm willing to fix.14:13
Romsteri was aware of it years ago but i kinda shruged it off myself.14:13
Romsterthen forgot about it.14:13
Romsteruntill predatorfreak brought it up.14:14
predatorfreakRomster: My reasoning is pretty simple, if we're going to use an ineffective scheme we might as well use nothing at all.14:14
tilmanstill, is the tar file format really attackable like this?14:15
predatorfreaktilman: Sure.14:15
tilmanyeah, thinko14:15
Romsteri was hoping we'd switch to sha256 slowly runing both at the same time then silently droping md5.14:15
Romsterat a later date.14:15
predatorfreaktilman: Really simple test without doing the proper calculation on this14:15
predatorfreakto fake an MD514:16
Romsterand jues all it'll break all the ports.14:16
predatorfreaktouch 1 2; tar -cf blah.tar 1 2; echo blah >> 1.tar; tar -cf blah.tar14:16
predatorfreaktar won't bitch or anything.14:16
Romsteri'm all isn't crux ment to be a distro that keeps with the times.14:16
predatorfreakRomster: My patch (as you know) is transitional.14:17
Romsteryes i realise that.14:17
joacimgood times14:17
predatorfreakLater, say 2 versions of CRUX down the line, dropping MD5 would be one patch.14:17
Romsterbut it'll be no good if it's not accepted into pkgutils.14:17
predatorfreakRomster: Yeah.14:17
Romsterother than our personal ports be better ptotected if they chose to use the patch.14:18
pitillowich are the disadvantages of using sha256 instead of md5?14:18
Romsteri think jue is if it arn't broke don't fix.14:18
Romsterbut md5 is broken14:19
predatorfreakpitillo: None.14:19
Romsterlonger hash a few more bytes. a little more cpu time is about all.14:19
predatorfreakRomster: Yeah, I wouldn't call those disadvantages though.14:19
predatorfreakIf that were a serious problem we should be using CRC :)14:20
Romsternope not compared to the security.14:20
pitillodisadvantages/inconvenients/negative points, to don't use it14:20
pitilloa bit more of space and cpu in one side, and security in the other, by now14:21
predatorfreakpitillo: The extra space and CPU utilised is so low it hardly matters.14:22
pitillopredatorfreak, can matters in some cases, but for me they have less weigth vs securiry14:22
Romsteryeah and it's only when you use pkgmk14:22
predatorfreakUnless you're running a system with a 1MB HD and a CPU from 196514:22
predatorfreakYou'll be fine :P14:22
pitillonear it, near it... or at least seems so sometimes14:23
pitilloI think it's a good point to take care and think about14:23
lucifer4uRomster:  how do you create delta?14:31
Romsterwith xdelta in contrib.14:32
lucifer4ui cannot build xdelta :(14:32
Romstereh it built for me...14:32
Romsterwhy is it everything builds for me but not for everyone else <<14:32
pitillowich sense has using sha256 in a source based distro?14:32
lucifer4ui have test for GLIB failed14:33
Romsterlucifer4u, what error are you getting?14:33
pitilloanother sense different than md5, to check that you download the source well14:33
lucifer4uglib-config installed by GLIB cannot be find14:33
lucifer4uRomster: do yo uhave glib-config on your system?14:34
pitillotime to take dinner, I will read later if you tell me something14:34
lucifer4uif so please tell me your 'which glib-config'14:34
tilmanobviously ;)14:35
lucifer4ui do not have one..14:35
tilmanprt-get install glib114:35
lucifer4uwhat is the problem? :)14:35
Romsterthere you go force rebuild glib.14:35
Romstereh glib1?14:35
lucifer4ui thought it should be in a start disto :)14:36
predatorfreakpitillo: I provided both, with sha256 being used if available for compatibility. Main reason to use it is because MD5 is no longer useful for the only function we use it for, integrity verification.14:36
Romsterdoes xdelta use glib1?14:36
Romstergrr i'll teest in a friggen chroot.14:37
tilmanglib1 is ancient crap, it certainly shouldn't be installed by the isp14:37
lucifer4uRomster: well. what is the size of patch do you have for some not big archive? can you give me some example?14:38
Romsteranything from 30kb to a about 3MB14:38
lucifer4utilman:  thank you. building glib1 right now14:38
lucifer4uRomster:  can i ask you for a small test?14:39
teKntwhen is prologic going to update his ports14:39
teKit *really* sucks14:39
Romsterlucifer4u, i have fiels on my site.14:39
RomsterteK, he has said he would and he never gets to doing it.14:39
teKevery !core and !opt I use seems to be """maintained""" by him14:40
teKis there anything *I* can do about it?14:40
predatorfreakteK: Convince Romster to pick it up :P14:40
teK"create your own repo" .. yeah. But who is going to fix the ports in contrib..14:40
tilmanteK: wanna become a contrib maintainer?14:41
teKI'd love to try :)14:41
teKso: yes i want to14:41
predatorfreaktilman: Nah, just hand all of contrib over to Romster.14:41
tilmanteK: you're familiar with the ports business, right?14:41
predatorfreakHe already maintains half of it :P14:41
teKtilman: yarp14:41
tilmanteK: or are you a n00b?14:41
teK'f course I'm a noob!1!!1114:42
tilmani'm only partially here14:42
Romsterpredatorfreak, i'm like 1/5th of contrib.14:42
tilmanteK: read the blurb on contrib on the wiki, then mail the contrib mailing list that you'd like to get in14:42
tilmanand the other contrib'ers will handle it14:42
predatorfreakRomster: You're probably the largest percentage of contrib :P14:42
Romsterhmm maybe.14:42
tilmannote though that you should talk to prologic before taking away his ports14:42
tilmanotherwise he'll be mad14:43
Romsterhah i still remember han <<14:43
predatorfreaktilman: Let him, we need a flamefest!14:43
teKOkay. Till now I only told him "please update them" (about 50 times? *g*)14:43
lucifer4uhan is a great person :)14:43
predatorfreaklucifer4u: If you like crazy trolls, yes.14:44
Romstertoo bad he don't hang out here anymore.14:44
tilmani don't miss the yelling14:44
Romsterhe has a attitude.14:44
tilmanmy laptop is whistling14:44
predatorfreakI always kinda liked Han because he was a giant troll monster though :)14:44
Romsterwas fun to argue with him.14:45
lucifer4uRomster:  so you do 'xdelta delta old new delta' on the arhive ?14:50
teKbtw the Flyspray link on is broken (missing "Main" in
Romstersomething like that.14:51
Romsterread the man page14:51
pitillopredatorfreak, I can't  see the point of our use of md5 another than check the source integrity (but download integrity, not modified source). Or do you think the source can be modified?14:54
predatorfreakpitillo: 'course it can be14:57
predatorfreakThat's the whole point of integrity verification14:57
predatorfreakTo make sure it's clean14:57
pitillopredatorfreak, by who? a port maintainer who change the url to download source and he provides you the modified source?14:57
predatorfreakpitillo: That, the mirror could tamper with the sources14:58
predatorfreakthe original program developer could for all we know14:58
pitilloI'm trying to understand first sentence. Wich mirror? maintainer mirror? 1 of the SF mirrors?15:00
predatorfreakIt doesn't matter.15:00
predatorfreakAnyone mirroring the source code15:00
pitillowell, but the md5 is used to compare your downloaded source with the md5provided by the maintainer, who made his md5 with the source too15:01
predatorfreakYes, so long as the package maintainer isn't doing it.15:02
predatorfreakThe idea is that a checksum checks anyone else doing it.15:02
predatorfreakMD5 fails in that regard15:02
pitilloI can't see the difference, sorry15:03
predatorfreakpitillo: If the author decides to replace the programs source tarball with one including a virus15:04
predatorfreakhe could get exactly the same MD5 hash between the two tarballs15:04
predatorfreakWith sha256, he can't.15:04
pitilloprogram's author, port's author?15:05
predatorfreakThe person who wrote the program is the programs author15:05
predatorfreakThe ports author is the maintainer of the port.15:05
predatorfreakI'm saying anyone who has access to the tarball can potentially fuck with the tarball.15:05
predatorfreakIf you can't trust the ports maintainer, there's a serious problem right there15:06
predatorfreakThe real problem isn't (generally) going to be the packager though15:06
predatorfreakIt's everyone else.15:06
predatorfreakIntegrity verification is used to make sure no one else is changing the file.15:06
predatorfreakMD5 cannot do that effectively15:07
pitillois it used by program authors?15:07
predatorfreakBecause you can produce hash collisions fairly easily.15:07
pitilloyeah, I understood the problem, you can do it with packages for example15:07
predatorfreakpitillo: Most open-source projects provide the MD5 sum of their programs tarballs15:07
predatorfreakBut there's nothing saying now that one of the developer's who's responsible for packaging can't make two tarballs with the same MD5 hash15:08
predatorfreakBut one with a virus, one without15:08
pitillothe author must use sha256 and share it to people who want his program15:10
predatorfreakWell, you can generate an SHA256 hash of the clean tarball15:10
predatorfreakand it'll mismatch if you ever get fed the virus-infected tarball15:10
pitilloand that people can verify that the source (downloaded in any mirror) and see if was modified15:10
predatorfreakYou don't necessarily NEED them to provide the SHA256 hash.15:10
predatorfreakHash functions are supposed to always generate the same result for the same file.15:11
pitilloyou must check the original source to make the hash15:11
rehabdollmd5 is indeed broken15:11
predatorfreakBut if the original source is bad, then MD5 is less protection.15:11
pitillothen you have 2 choices, read the source and verify it is clean and then make the hash15:12
*** Viper_ has quit IRC15:12
rehabdolli remember trying out the proof-of-concept a while back15:12
pitilloor believe that you downloaded the correct source and make a clean hash for it15:12
predatorfreakpitillo: Yes.15:13
predatorfreakSame applies for MD5, really.15:13
pitilloyeah, both are unsecure then... if sha256 wasn't made by the original author15:13
RedShiftI was wondering, what if we created algorithms that were capable of "closing in" on a hash15:14
RedShiftthen instead of duplicating all the data to be distributed, we distribute a set of hashes, and let the computer calculate the data15:15
predatorfreakpitillo: MD5 is more unsecure.15:15
predatorfreakpitillo: Assuming the packager does their job, SHA256 is secure.15:16
predatorfreakMD5 is not.15:16
sepenpackager or maintainer15:17
*** joacim has quit IRC15:17
pitilloI don't want to bore you predatorfreak, but which is the packager job? REad all the source to verify it is the original source?15:17
predatorfreakpitillo: Generally you don't need to read all the source code.15:17
predatorfreakMost stuff for source-code on Linux would probably get stuck in the configure script15:18
sepenwhy not use a repo.asc to sign all ports contained in a official repository?15:18
pitillodon't take this questions in a bad way predatorfreak, I am trying to understand it15:18
predatorfreakpitillo: Plus.15:18
predatorfreakfakeroot building.15:18
predatorfreakand building as a low-privilege user15:19
pitillowell, the "bad person" can too review the source code and try to bypass the configure, and make bad things with the deps of that source15:19
pitilloin that way, the configure continue, the program can be built and it may be has a backhole15:20
predatorfreakpitillo: It doesn't protect from bad maintainers.15:20
predatorfreakThat's not the point of integrity verification15:20
Romsterhmm viper really needs to fix pinentry, to not have to force xorg.15:22
*** Rotwang has joined #crux15:22
lucifer4upredatorfreak: is not SHA256 have the same problem?15:23
predatorfreaklucifer4u: It's not susceptible to any known attack.15:24
predatorfreakMD5 is.15:24
predatorfreakThe point is everything MD5 is supposed to protect against, it no longer does.15:24
predatorfreakEverything it can't protect against, neither can SHA256.15:24
predatorfreakBut it does protect against was MD5 is SUPPOSED to.15:24
predatorfreak <-- Hahahahaha15:26
*** pitillo has quit IRC15:31
*** predatorfreak has quit IRC15:33
*** pitillo has joined #crux15:33
vicoRomster: you don't get scribes to work or to install?15:36
vicoRomster: what is the problem?15:39
Romsteri was only testing but i gave up.15:39
Romsterwell i tryed to use pygetspell2 in a spot that needed the old v115:40
Romsteri gave up i don't need that i just was helping todebug it.15:40
Romsterare you keen on it?15:41
vicoRomster: ah ok, well I tested it a few weeks ago15:41
Romsterthere is other Python IDE's out there.15:41
vicoRomster: it is nice for a gui editor but not my cup of tea15:42
*** errdil has quit IRC15:42
vicoRomster: but I do like the textmate like snippets feature15:42
Romsterah ok, i'm still into gvim really.15:43
Romsteri was jsut trying out my safe-build script and testing.15:43
Romsteri'm doing a few tests on on some of my ports in contrib.15:44
Romsterand messng with a port that i'm trying to perfect before i push al of my git commits.15:44
vicoRomster: ok Im a vim man myself (without the g) :-)15:45
Romsterheh i use vim when i arn't in X15:45
*** RedShift has quit IRC15:48
*** maxus has quit IRC16:26
*** jdolan_ has quit IRC16:39
*** andarius has joined #crux16:50
andariusgreetings and salutations16:51
*** boe_ has quit IRC16:54
*** sepen has quit IRC17:01
*** mavrick61 has quit IRC17:05
*** Dreamer`_ has quit IRC17:05
*** rehabdoll has quit IRC17:05
*** cohan has quit IRC17:05
*** cohan has joined #crux17:07
*** rehabdoll has joined #crux17:08
*** mavrick61 has joined #crux17:10
*** Rotwang has quit IRC17:15
*** Dreamer` has joined #crux17:16
*** Dreamer`_ has joined #crux17:16
*** DarkNekros has quit IRC17:18
nipuL*sigh* why is it so hard to find a good technician these days18:04
* andarius is for hire if the price is right :)18:04
nipuLthe new guy is just as bad as the old new guy18:04
andariuswhat kind of tech ?18:05
nipuLthis guy is either really lazy or has no hardware skills18:06
nipuLi'm only working 10 hours a week now so i can finish uni, I don't need this kind of stress at work18:07
andariusdemand more money :)18:10
*** pitillo has quit IRC18:15
*** vico has quit IRC18:25
*** predatorfreak has joined #crux18:45
*** mavrick61 has quit IRC19:04
*** Dudde has quit IRC19:04
*** mavrick61 has joined #crux19:05
*** Dudde has joined #crux19:05
*** lucifer4u has quit IRC19:06
*** predatorfreak has quit IRC20:52
andariusweather ...21:33
SiFuh_whether ...21:57
andariusarent we a talkative group :(22:41
nipuLyou should join #chat or something then22:42
nipuLplenty of noise in #ubuntu if you're into that sort of thing22:42
andariusthats ok. i have enough trouble tracking what i normaly have on my desktop now22:42
andariusnoooo. would rather stab myself with a spoon22:43
nipuLman i wish this last widsom tooth would come through already22:45
andariusmine are almost done. sucks getting this far though :(22:46
nipuLit's half way out and food keeps getting caught under the gum22:46
nipuLso i try to dig it out and just end up pushing it in further and making myself bleed22:47
andariusi will count myself as lucky then. i only had some gum and inner cheek hacking by the new teeth22:47
nipuLmine are really slow22:48
nipuLi've been growing this one for about 2 years now22:48
andariusnot sure how long mine have been coming in. phases over a long time though. first dental visit in 2 years next month though :)22:49
andariusnight all23:00
*** andarius has left #crux23:00
*** morlenxus has quit IRC23:06
*** morlenxus has joined #crux23:06
haolewesnoth port is outdated... :(23:37
Romsterhold up i'm trying to get warsow working and i got a stack of ports updated and fixed in git and it wont let me push them..23:38
Romsterand i've been up all night and day and about to go sleep...23:39
SiFuh_sleep is overated. You can get plenty of that when your dead Romster23:42
Romsterit arn't out of date wtf are you on...23:42
Romster1.2.8 in contrib 1.3.18 in my romster repo wesnoth-dev23:43
Romsterhaole, look harder and maybe do a ports -u23:44
Romsteri know of a couple of other ports i need to update but there only minor.23:45
haoleoh, u must be right23:45
haolewhy is the name wesnoth-dev?23:45
Romsteri did it earlier.23:45
haoleany difference?23:45
Romsterbecause it's a devalopment branch23:45
Romsterthe new 1.4 series.23:45
Romsterit's geting close to stable and bug free.23:46
Romsterit'll install along side wesnoth.23:46
Romsterand run wesnoth-dev23:46
haoleyeah... that will be nice23:46
Romsterthat's why it's not in contrib as it's not stabel yet.23:46
Romsterso out of date pfft <<23:47
Romsterwarsow is a major task to sort out,23:47
haolewhat is warsow? im too lazy to go to wikipedia23:48
Romsteranyways i'm sleeping and i'll finish that and push my other git commits then.23:48
Romsterprt-get info warsow23:48
Romsteranyways bbl23:51
SiFuh_sure you will23:51
*** jaeger has quit IRC23:53
*** maxus has joined #crux23:57

Generated by 2.11.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!