IRC Logs for #crux Thursday, 2008-04-17

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pitillogood morning01:17
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pitilloteK, ping. can you check this when you will have a bit of time?
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cruxbot[opt.git]: mod_perl: update to 2.0.402:27
cruxbot[opt.git]: aspell: update to 0.60.602:27
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teKpitillo: yes I hesitated yesterday to try it due to lazyness :>03:17
teKI will try it out today. The mysql-related error will surely be fixed after adding the according line to /etc/ and the other issues about libmng is already resolved03:17
pitilloteK, yes, about libmng I contacted sip to talk about that, and was fixed fast. I reported him the mysql false-positive problem too, and contacted again with him to tell that was my problem, fixed using the README file.03:22
teKso everything should be fine now, I will check this out later03:23
pitilloteK, perfect, I hope if you can confirm that here when you test it (here I tested in a clean enviroment and it must be built fine)03:24
teKI will report @ flyspry03:25
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tilmanhi jue04:01
Rotwangsepen: acpi link is dead04:03
sepenhey, Ill fix04:04
juesepen: new option --basedir/-b,
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sepenjue, nice and thanks04:04
sepenvery useful for my plains04:04
Rotwangsomeone has link to ck4upp ?04:05
sepenjue, still using config files without extension?04:06
Rotwangok i got it04:07
sepenjue, running fine here04:08
sepenjue, Im trying to find something strange04:09
sepen$ ./ck4up.rb -b /tmp -f ~/.ck4up/contrib04:09
sepenConfiguration file /tmp//home/sepen/.ck4up/contrib.conf not found !04:09
sepenall switches are working perfect for me04:09
sepenjue, thanks for the job04:09
juesepen: can you do some tests with https url's, mike_k had problems with it, but I cannnot reproduce that04:11
sepentestssh md5
sepenjue, I get an html output04:14
sepen$ ./ck4up.rb -b . -f test_ck4up -v -d -k | wgetpaste04:15
sepenYour paste can be seen here:
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`Orumis there a way to install crux w/o building the kernel again from source?04:17
sepenohh jue was my problem, now running fine here for "foo md5 @NAME@-.*?\.tar\.[bg]z2?"04:20
sepen`Orum, without compiling kernel?04:22
`Orumyes, the install guide says to compile the kernel on your new machine...ideally I'd just like top copy over whatever the livecd is using04:22
Rotwang`Orum: yes04:22
sepen$ cp /boot/{,vmlinuz} /mnt/boot04:22
sepen$ cp -dpR /lib/modules/`uname -r`/kernel /mnt/lib/modules/`uname -r`/04:22
Rotwangyou may borrow kernel from cd04:23
sepen`Orum, just copy kernel and modules04:23
Rotwangor copy from any other distro04:23
`Orumah, ok, thanks :)04:23
cruxbot[contrib.git]: iasl: Updated 20061109 -> 20080321. Fixed source line too. (thanks to Rotwang)05:06
`Orumis ext2 recommended over ext3 on a boot partition?05:18
`Orumk, thanks05:21
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Romsterdon't need a boot partition05:28
Romsterbut you can have one if you prefer05:29
`Orumah, well, I made one05:29
f1yboot is a good idea to many-users systems, turning its mounting off in fstab is great05:29
f1yand you have guarantee, that you do not harm your startup files05:30
Romsterwhats the issue though if only root can modify it...05:30
f1yRomster: some roots are drunken sometimes05:31
Romsterdo as you please i just don't see why it's any use.05:31
`Orumcan I see what's in the "optional packages" before choosing to install it?05:31
Romsterman prt-get05:31
joacimhow does boot matter when you lost all of usr, var, etc and home?05:32
`Orumwell I'm in the middle of the installer right now05:32
Romsteranother good point if oyu nuke /usr what is the point of having a intact boot loader then...05:33
f1yyeah, and how does boot matter when nuclear bomb crash whole city...05:33
f1yanyway i use /boot wherever i can, it saved me many times, especially on machines with few roots05:34
Romsteranother words a few drunk users.. that shouldn't have root access.05:36
f1yRomster: ok, drunk shouldnt have root access, but there is a matter of /boot partition, not of prohibition in root society :>05:37
f1yi bet everyone of us here had crashed someting because of alcohol, stupidity, ignorance and such - man learns by his mistakes05:38
f1yand those mistakes (not all were mine) learned me to use /boot partition without automounting at startup :)05:38
Romstermessed up a kernel or two but never did anything that stupid..05:38
Romsterand make it a policy to not do something complex when drunk...05:39
Romsteror does common sense mean nothing there.05:39
Romsterhere is a idea a breatho hooked to the pc to allow sudo access <<05:39
f1yok and what about this situation: boss of yours buys a great machine but with one exception - his sonny boy must be root there and he is a complete lame and noob and what can you do?05:42
Romsterrestrict access to what is needed as root...05:42
Romsterwhat needs to be root?05:42
Romsteryou can assign a group too.05:43
f1yyes, good point05:43
Romsteryou can use the suid bit too.05:43
f1yand you can use /boot partition with no automout at startup to secure your startup files05:43
Romsterdepends on the level of security and what needs to be done.05:44
f1yevery try of manipulating those files needs to mount /boot first, this is obvious05:44
Romsteri guess if the user is that dumb to nuke the rest of the system or given access to what the person shouldn't of had access too05:44
Romsteri'd put it down to bad setup.05:44
Romsterdon't give them root access.05:45
Romsterand maybe sue libtrash.05:45
Romsteror some other safety net or a disc ghost image.05:45
Romsteri see your method give them full access but don't mount /boot after the system boots05:46
Romsteri would be seriously going 'wtf' in that situration.05:47
f1ynope, this is not my method05:47
f1ymy method is to put those idiots to jail :)05:47
f1yand they may destroy whatever they want :)05:48
Romsterbut you get called out to fix everytime05:49
f1yi prefer fixing jail than rescuing os05:50
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`Orumwhat special things should be mounted in fstab?  proc?  anything else?05:57
Rotwang /06:01
`Orumyeah, I have my hd partitions in there06:01
`Orumjust not sure what non-physical partitions are common in linux06:02
f1yremovable media like cd/dvd and such06:02
`Orumwell, non-physical fs's06:02
`Orumyeah, I'll manually mount that06:04
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Romster /sys /proc shm tmp usb, useally.06:05
`Orumah sysfs06:07
`Orumnever heard of it...must be a linux thing06:08
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`Orumshould tmpfs be on /dev/shm or /tmp?06:18
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Romster /tmp06:26
Romstershm                    /dev/shm  tmpfs     noexec,nosuid,defaults 0      006:26
Romstertmp                    /tmp      tmpfs     noexec,nosuid,defaults 0      006:26
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`Orumoops, wrong window in focus...06:28
cruxbot[xfce.git]: xfburn: Updated 0.3.0svn-4508 -> 0.3.0svn-459706:29
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tilman`Orum: i use tmpfs for both /tmp and /dev/shm06:53
`Orumhrm, do I need to select grub from the packages to run grub-install?06:53
`Orumtilman: yeah, that's what I configured06:54
tilmanif you didn't install grub you cannot run grub-install06:56
`Orumah, I didn't know if it was in the base packages or not06:57
`OrumI guess it's not06:57
`Orumco I can just rerun setup to install additional packages?06:58
tilmanpkgadd -r /mnt /crux/opt/grub should be enough06:58
tilmanassuming you mounted your new system's partitions in /mnt06:59
`Orumarg, invalid package name07:00
tilmanyeah well07:01
tilmanhit TAB after you punched in grub ;)07:01
`Orumwell I don't even have a /crux directory07:02
`Orumah /cdrom/crux07:02
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`Orumhrm, it didn't give me a sample menu config though07:07
tilmanit should!07:07
tilman /boot/grub/menu.lst.sample i think07:08
`Orumnot there :(07:08
tilmanwhich iso are you using?07:09
`Orumgrub.conf.sample crux02.xpm.gz crux03.xpm.gz07:09
`Orumthat's it07:09
tilmangrub.conf.sample is the sample config07:09
tilmangrub.conf is just another name for menu.lst07:09
`Orumso grub-install doesn't care which it is...cool07:10
tilmanthe grub package on the 2.4 CD was patched with a fedora patch07:14
tilmanwhich makes grub use grub.conf by default07:14
tilmanit also accepts menu.lst though07:14
`Orumso if I leave both of these menu entries in, but it can't find vmlinuz.old (i.e. a new kernel hasn't been installed yet), will that still appear on the menu or not?07:22
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pitillo`Orum, take a look to the last part of the handbook wick talks about grub. About how to setup it, I think you can find enought resources at inet.08:00
`OrumI'm looking through the grub manual right now...the kernel command doc doesn't make any mention08:01
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`Orumarg, I can't get grub to install08:42
thrice`anything wrong with simply using lilo ?08:43
pitillo`Orum, you have lilo, another alternative08:43
`Orumyeah, was hoping to use grub but I guess not08:44
thrice`both should of course work.  I've never used grub, though, so probably can't help much :(08:45
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pitillo`Orum, I use grub in some machines and I hadn't problems by now (not tested in some months)... btw, you can use pastebin to give more info about your problem, giving your conf, how are you installing it...08:47
`Orumthe conf isn't the problem though08:47
`Orumoh I see08:49
treachyay, multiple holes in oo.o.. and they are all "reserved" at mitre. :/08:49
`OrumI needed to copy over my /proc/mounts to /etc/mtab, apparently08:49
`Orum(might want to add this to the grub install docs)08:49
`Orumthat fixed it08:50
`Orumah wait, no it didn't08:52
`Orumsystem is unbootable...  I'll just restart from the beginning08:53
pitillo`Orum, if you want try to upload your {menu.lst,grub.conf}, your fstab and try to install grub with the last part of the handbook, (using grub console instead of grub-install, here in this way it's working fine)08:55
`OrumI'll just use lilo at this point08:56
treachwise decision. :>08:56
`Orumgrub is nice when it's set up and working, but if it's that much more complicated to get it there...08:57
treachI don't get the point with grub.08:57
pitillowell, that's the point of alternatives, you can choose.08:58
treachit has 1 advantage afaik.08:58
`Orumthe progress bar during setup seems...far from representative of the amount of data that has to be installed.  it only takes a moment to get to 99% where it starts installing linux-
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`Orumhrm, I don't need to edit lilo.conf if I just copy over the kernel from the cd, right?09:32
`Orumoh, what need to be changed in it?09:33
treachhave a look. it should be fairly selfexplaining.09:34
`Orumhrm, I'll just look at online man pages09:34
treachalso a good idea09:34
treachbut there's no point in over-doing it-09:34
`Orumoh I see, I just need to fill in the devices09:35
treach.........and run "lilo"09:35
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`OrumI assume I need to be chrooted in order for that to work...09:36
treachor "need" might not be the rigth word, I think you can do it with some switches to lilo anyway, but it's clearly the easier way. >:09:37
Romsternever forget to run lilo after editing!09:40
Romsterlilo -R some-kernel, or use tab at boot time to select a kernel and options.09:41
* `Orum crosses his fingers09:42
`OrumI hope this works....09:42
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treachif lilo doesn't give you any errors, it should.09:43
tilmantreach: i've been tracking linux-xfs somewhat in the last two weeks or so. found at least one scary bug so far ;<09:43
Romsterif your kernel config fstab and lilo.conf are correct and you ran lilo and it didn't say error..09:43
treachtilman: doesn't surprise me at all.09:43
tilmanand iirc 2.4.24 had a bad xfs bug, too09:43
treachxfs is a nice fs, but it's just too tied to irix imo.09:44
tilmanwhich is why i'm not on 2.4.25 yet :D09:44
treachLOTS of ugly glue to make it stick on linux. :/09:44
tilman(they fixed that one in
`Orumwooo, I think it's working09:44
cptntilman: you're still on 2.4?09:44
`Orumoh wait, fsck failed :(09:44
treachapparantly he's a conservative guy. :>09:45
Romsterlazy-count=1 will prevent superblock updates...09:45
`Orumhrm, net started with an [ERROR] :(09:46
tilmantwo choices:09:46
tilmana) panic and frown09:46
tilmanb) take a minute to find the typo09:46
`Orumeth card isn't supported, I guess09:46
treachc) return to windows :>09:46
Romsteror you didn't compile in or add in the module or laod it.09:46
tilman`Orum: dmesg|grep eth or something09:47
tilmanRotwang aka cthulhu09:47
* tilman plays master of puppets09:48
treachah, finally time to reboot. :>09:48
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`Orumhrm, keyboard stopped working09:50
`Orumand hwclock is segfaulting...I didn't even touch that :)09:51
tilmanugh, that's a bad sign :x09:51
Romsternever got that one before.09:52
Rotwangthat means your box will selfdestruct in five minutes09:52
Romsteruseally it's can't find root device.09:52
* `Orum takes a screenshot09:52
tilman`Orum: what's your cpu?09:52
`Orumit's running in qemu09:53
Romsterthat's a idea did you set the right cpu for your system.09:53
tilmani guess that means you have at least a i686 class cpu ;)09:54
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`Orumyeah, k709:55
`Orumon the host machine09:55
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treachas I feared. Nvidia doesn't like .25. :/09:56
`Orumproc isn't mounting...interesting09:58
treach"fs type procfs not supported"09:58
`Orumhow would that happen?09:59
treachwonder why it doesn't mount.. :>09:59
tilmanyou failed epically at configuring the kernel09:59
Romstertreach, preditorfreak said the beta nvidia driver works09:59
`OrumI didn't configure one09:59
tilmanhomerian epic fail09:59
`OrumI just copied it off the cd09:59
treachRomster: oh, thanks.09:59
Romsterhe put a copy in his repo too i think.09:59
Romsterof nvidia beta and said it's stable.10:00
tilmanhah, fontconfig rules10:00
tilmancptn's nice flower2 slim theme requests the Verdana font10:00
tilmanwhich i don't have, because it would make virtualrms bitch like all hell10:00
tilmanbut fontconfig makes Verdana an alias for sans-serif10:00
tilmanso i end up with vera, i think. or something.10:01
treach"viritualrms" rofl10:01
tilmantreach: i think it's called virtualstallman10:01
cptntilman: I think the CRUX thing does too10:01
cptnyou know, that crux theme10:02
cptnwhich I'm hosting ;-)10:02
`Orumso, if procfs mounts on the livecd, why would it fail when copied over?10:02
tilmancptn: i didn't intend to blame you, fwiw :]10:02
cptnno no, it's fine10:02
tilmanthe username/passw boxes aren't showing any text here10:02
tilmanand i decided to find out why, after a week or so10:02
cptnso if the font can't be found, it just won't display anything?10:03
tilmani see the labels next to the text entries10:03
Romsteri thought it would default back to something..10:03
tilmanso i eblieve it's not related to a missing font10:03
Romsterwell fall back..10:03
Romsterone of thesedays i need to look into OpenID10:04
tilmanit's "vrms"10:04
treachjesus f. christ.. nvidia has had 100. something as beta since october..10:05
Romsterthat's a damn long time.10:05
treachargh. it's their stupid db playing tricks10:06
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treach173 has ben around since april 10, apparently, didn't get listed the first time o.O10:07
Romstervirtual Richard M. Stallman < nice way to modle a name vrms10:07
treach"vrms, removing the VROMS from your computer since XXXX"10:08
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jesse_Haha. "now you can have your very own personal savior saint rms battering your fsf conscience."10:47
treach"so that the users can keep their computer "pure", without non-free software." lol10:50
jesse_non-free according to fsf. :p10:50
jesse_One of many definitions.10:50
treach"when free isn't enough"10:50
jesse_You can tell rms is a church leader by this sort of behavior and moral guidance, if it were. :p10:52
treachwell, the minions are certainly present at least.10:52
jesse_The "you must prefix it GNU/*" crowd.10:53
treachindeed. >.<10:53
RedShiftrms & fsf has a weird definition of free...10:54
treach"it means just what I say, no more, no less". :>10:54
jesse_Now read my legalese scripture.10:55
treachthose guys always make me think of humpety dumpety for some reason. :P10:55
jesse_High and mighty on the wall, until things go wrong, very, very wrong? :D10:55
treachheh there's apparently even a word for it. :)10:57
treachhumptydumptyism - From Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass, Chapter 6: "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less." The coinage "humptydumptyism" has been attributed to Frank Beach. Doublespeak (Orwell, 1984),10:57
jesse_It is a fitting meaning.10:59
jesse_rms certainly has turned 'free' into something quite different.11:00
tilmanand it has served us very well...11:00
jesse_I prefer the term open source because it is more accurate in description.11:01
treachto a point, but when people just go too far overboard it's harmful.11:01
tilmano m f g11:01
tilmanjesse_: that term is the worst thing that happened. ever.11:01
jesse_'free' invariably implies economic price, which is simply one part of the puzzle.11:01
tilmanit allows microsoft to ship its crap as "open source", but it's totally not free11:01
cruxbot[contrib.git]: geany: Added patch for not checking p5-xml-parser as dependency.11:02
tilmanmore or less worthless...11:02
treachno, free doesn't neccessarily mean sin monetary terms.11:02
treach"means in"11:02
treachor do you mean that you're free in monetary terms, jesse? :P11:02
jesse_Depending on the context. :D11:02
jesse_Besides, if you pull a randome joe off the street and ask what free software means to them, access to source probably will not show up too often.11:04
treachbut that's not the point.11:05
treachrandom joe doesn't decide the meaning of free, nor do the fsf.11:06
jesse_That does not stop them from attempting to do so. ;)11:06
treachand I find the whole idea, "*We* decide what's free, and what's not, and *you* shouldn't use what's non-free" attitude rather annoying.11:06
treachthus the reference to humpety. :>11:07
treachI mean, in that context, the user isn't free at all, right? :P11:08
treachhe can't chose to use non-free stuff if they decide to obstruct it. :>11:09
treachso much for "free".11:09
jesse_free* "see the applicative restrictions" :p11:09
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treachdouble standard is another word to put it. :>11:11
treachs word/way11:11
jesse_Seems as if the bazaar is becoming a cathedral onto itself, given it has its own codes of conduct, hierarchy, mythology and dogma to boot. :D11:11
treachthere are always people who seek power and love to get into a position to tell others what to do. :/11:12
jesse_not to mention those who desperately have the need to follow anyone who looks powerful or seems to show them a 'direction'.11:12
treachif only for something as petty as stopping some drivers so people will have to buy new hardware to satisfiy them.11:12
Romsteroh yeah car EMU's will stop working without a software update or something <<11:13
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Romstererr ECM's or what the hell is that damn abbreviation fo rthe engine managment.11:14
tilmanjesse_: esr came up with the bazaar thing, and esr has nothing to do with the fsf or stallman...11:15
treachno, but opensource. which I think was what he was talking about.11:15
jesse_I am aware of that. I simply used the bazaar and cathedral terms to describe how a grouping decides to dictate the terms and monopolize a certain behavioral set.11:16
jesse_eg, becoming an institution.11:16
jesse_as treach said, it just might as well be a power trip to seek dominance.11:17
jesse_For the record, I am not a drooling esr supporter.11:19
treachwell, I wasn't really saying that's the goal of the fsf, just that it's the kind of place which migth attract that kind of people.11:19
treachjust look at the amount of people who try to use various "legal" arguments to support their agendas.11:20
treachI bet most of those people have never even seen a lawyer..11:20
jesse_At least not when dealing with 'free' license issues.11:20
jesse_The contention with regard to rms and fsf is their conduct and their pushing of a morality to licensing.11:24
jesse_I can respect rms for the contribution of a proper license scheme and ensuring it can he upheld from a legal point of view, but it is too close to stepping on boundaries on conduct.11:25
treach I don't particulary care about that, but that arrogant tone of theirs makes them no favours.11:25
treachand I'm not refering to rms himself, but rather his selfproclaimed diciples. :>11:26
jesse_There' a problem when the followers are more religious than the leadership. ;)11:26
jesse_Brings to mind a former user in this channel, but i won't mention names because they tend to conjure them right back.11:28
thrice`wow, nvidia drivers have an --apply-patch  option on their run files?  that's neat :)11:28
jesse_It is worrying when the fanaticism reaches levels of u.s. style preachers. :p11:29
thrice`treach: try this?
jesse_"and the goode lorde spake: use thy free software, but shall ye choose to forsake, there shall be no tolerance or safe haven!" :D11:30
treachthrice`: not needed, seems to be running fine with the beta drivers. :)11:30
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sepenRomster, =======> ERROR: Downloading '' failed11:32
sepenRomster, pub/jam directory dissapeared from this location11:32
treachit's there11:32
sepenperforce   04/16/08  21:10:0011:33
sepenthis is the only one I can see11:33
treach works11:33
Romsterdamn i wasn't aware..11:37
Romsterthey moved it..11:37
Romsteri can11:38
Romsteri can't use sepens list for bad urls as they say error for ones that work fine.11:38
cruxbot[contrib.git]: jam: fix source url11:44
Romsteri need ot setup my own checks for missing source.11:46
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