IRC Logs for #crux Thursday, 2008-04-24

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Romsterhowdy all.00:04
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jnengland77hi00:06
* predatorfreak claws Romster to death and returns to his cave00:06
Romsterlol00:07
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pitillogood morning01:08
predatorfreakRawr!01:09
pitilloarfarf01:09
* predatorfreak eats pitillo01:11
predatorfreakmmm tasty01:11
Romsterfinally compiling.01:11
Romstergotta love temperamental programs.01:11
pitilloxD01:12
pitillotake care, don't pick an illness :P01:12
tilmanhttp://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Halfway-in-the-Digital-Age.aspx01:23
tilmanworst dailywtf ever i think01:23
tilmanomgomgomg01:23
namenlosreading it atm ;)01:24
tilmanwarning: coffee spilling might happen01:24
namenlosanyone knows, where the git repository for ports(8) are? couldn't find it, yesterday.01:24
tilmannamenlos: wow, there doesn't seem to be one01:26
namenlosreally?01:27
namenlosno wonder, why i didn't find one.01:28
namenlosshould it be created?01:28
tilmanprobably :D01:29
tilmanlet me see whether there's a *svn* repo for it01:29
tilmanmaybe it was just forgotten in the svn->git transition01:29
Romstertilman, WTF!01:30
Romstergawd that thedailywtf is really bad.01:30
predatorfreakOnly good part was01:32
predatorfreak"Byron's team had reluctantly installed and began using Bugzilla, which ironically appeared to be full of bugs."01:32
Romsteryeah..01:34
Romsterthe bugs was the entire team...01:35
* predatorfreak codes a bug tracking system filled with a ton of bugs01:35
predatorfreakIt can track itself.01:35
predatorfreakIf it remembers how to track shit.01:35
Romsterexcept Byron himself.01:35
Romsterlolz01:35
mike_kgit seems so good(distributed) that nobody can create correcponding bugtracking for it01:43
* mike_k is fighting with trac and git-svn01:43
Romsterah01:45
Romsterthe bug tracker needs to be distributed too :P01:46
mike_kkinda01:46
Romsteralthough that has issues too.01:46
mike_karchlinux has a tiny patch to gitweb that allows pseudo-integration with flyspray: http://projects.archlinux.org/git/gitweb.cgi?p=pacman.git;a=commit;h=ab506f77c04a481782d9e53c6a285227f58f5cf701:49
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sepenmorning01:50
mike_kRomster: plase describe yourself on public wiki.  Public/ContribMembers  It could be handy.01:51
Romsterhmm k01:53
mike_ksepen: u201:56
sepenohh ok01:56
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sepenmike_k, see the difference http://crux.nu/Public/MikhailKolesnik  !=  http://crux.nu/Profiles/JonathanAsghar01:57
sepenwhat we need for using Profiles? maybe be on opt?01:58
sepenxD01:58
mike_ksepen: I've just copied his profile link from About page01:58
sepenya01:58
mike_kI guess someone should fix his profile location01:58
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spaceracoonladyhi02:02
Romsteroh what if i put it to Profiles/... i need to login.02:02
spaceracoonladywhere can i catch the installer script?02:02
Romster?02:03
spaceracoonladythere is an install iso02:03
Romsterprt-get ?02:03
spaceracoonladywith an installer on it02:03
spaceracoonladyno02:03
spaceracoonladydays ago i already mentioned i would like to install crux from within another distribution02:03
spaceracoonladybut i could not even get the regular installer script from cd02:04
spaceracoonladywhere is it?02:04
Romsterhttp://crux.nu/gitweb/?p=system/iso.git;a=summary02:04
Romsteroh02:04
spaceracoonladyah omg thx02:04
Romsteryou can do that manually there is no how too as far as i know.02:05
spaceracoonladyyer02:05
spaceracoonladyi f i will handle this i will write a how to02:05
Romsteri've updated a diferent way using a for loop and pkgadd all of core.02:05
mike_kyou'd better just mount an iso from another distro02:05
Romsterfrom the cd.02:05
spaceracoonladyRomster mike_k ok02:06
Romsterno garrentie what will happen swaping over from another distro.02:06
Romsteryou could be left with alot of dead files.02:06
spaceracoonladylive cd02:07
spaceracoonladyhaha02:07
mike_kRomster: why dead files?02:07
sepenmike_k, http://crux.nu/Public/ContribMembers02:07
Romstermike_k, well other distros files left behind unless spaceracoonlady takes the time to remove all the left over stuff.02:08
sepensee others memebers02:08
Romstersepen, i can't use the Profile/... directory do i have to use the public one or do i see someone to get a user/pass02:08
sepenRomster, me the same02:08
mike_ksepen: /Profile is wrong prefix for contrib02:09
mike_kuse public please02:09
Romsterhmm then i'll edit my link yet again bah02:09
mike_kI've discussed that with tilman02:09
Romsteri think Profile is better but stupid wiki can't even register02:10
mike_kit is ok to have Publik/FullName pages, like I have02:10
Romsterand i'm a contrib member for goodness sake and no wiki account.02:10
mike_k*Public02:10
mike_kRomster: that's another question02:10
sepenmike_k, why Public and not as the others devels?02:12
mike_ksepen: we are the second-sort outcasts02:13
sepenwe are the shit of crux devel team02:13
sepen:[02:13
mike_kI don't really care02:13
tilmanyou are the contrib team02:14
mike_ksepen: After the page will be filled in tillman (just to highlight and remind him :P) will edit Main/About page02:15
mike_koh, highlight would not work with misspelled name. sorry02:16
mike_kbtw, contrib does not look like a team at all.02:17
pitilloand contrib members work (or the contrib repo) doesn't seem to be really trusty (I really don't understand this, atm I think it's a good job)02:21
cptnhey there02:24
sepenhi02:24
sepenthanks for pointing this pitillo02:25
mike_khi02:25
pitillolo cptn02:25
pitillothat's only my point of view, can be shared or not.02:26
sepenmike_k, j^2 is a contributor too, but see his profile location http://crux.nu/Profiles/JonathanAsghar02:26
sepenbruteforce calculator http://lastbit.com/pswcalc.asp02:27
sepen:D02:27
mike_kthat is supposed to be fixed. sepen,I guess you can copy that page to /Public and fix the link if you want02:27
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sepenok02:29
Romsteri have no problems with trusting contrib that's why it's there for right.02:30
Romsterpersonal repos i go on review before using a port.02:30
sepenhttp://crux.nu/Public/JoseVBeneyto02:30
cptnpitillo: why do you think it's not trusty?02:30
Romsterhttp://crux.nu/Public/DannyRawlins02:30
Romstercptn, maybe the warning at the bottom of the site.02:31
pitillocptn, reading comments in this channel seems that contrib is a non-trusty repo. Something like a use in your own...02:31
RomsterDISCLAIMER: the ports not belonging to the core and opt collections are provided by contributors; there is no guarantee or support by the CRUX team.02:32
Romsterno guarantee or support, doesn't say trust..02:32
cptnyeah02:32
cptnseems pretty accurate02:32
pitillocptn, btw, for me really doesn't matter. I understand what contrib is for (user contributions wihout dev's revision) but I feel contrib repo is (at least for me) needed in most cases (at least desktop computers)02:33
sepenimho http://crux.nu/Public/ContribMembers sounds like a duplicate page for avoiding the /About editing02:33
Romstercontrib and other repos well even opt is maintained by the maintainer of the port it's really only core that seems to be any core dev can touch any port?02:33
cptnpitillo: yes, I agree02:33
cptnit's an important ports collection02:34
sepenpffff ''...there is no guarantee or support by the CRUX team...''02:34
sepenthats all02:34
pitilloand has quality ports (hard work behind them and good maintainers working on it)02:35
sepenlot of junk files found (is not the Per idea) http://mikeux.dyndns.org/crux/logs/repoverify.php?log=repoverify-opt.html02:36
pitillosepen, right, that's a reallity, but taking that sentence and think that contrib is a non-trusty repo... I think it's a hard point of view about contrib maintainers' work02:36
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Romsterhay i'm on the About page too hmmz02:37
Romsterthis wiki site is so fragmented it arn't funny.02:37
sepenis Viper_ still maintaining the wiki?02:37
mike_ksepen: You could express thought about wiki/url on crux ml. but you didn't =) That's totaly minor thing afterall.02:38
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sepenI don't like duplicated info02:38
mike_kRomster: about will reference the actual pages. don't worry02:38
Romsteractually i'd rather point my into to my site then i can edit it all as i like. might do that later.02:44
cptnsepen: I don't think he ever was02:44
Romsteras far as i was told Sip handled the site.02:44
cptnbut to be honest, I don't think that the web page has any impact on how people look at contrib02:45
Romsterbut as Sip and Vipers ports are in need of TLC i doubt much will happen.02:45
sepenhmm02:45
Romstercptn, i just see the site as a ports and a few howto's really.02:46
Romsterand everything else on the site no one seems to care.02:46
cptnhowever, from reading the contrib ML it seems that there's no contrib team02:46
cptni.e. there's no discussion about how to do things better02:46
sependiscussion are here02:46
Romsteri'd like to say but i get bitched at saying i pick at ports./02:46
pitillocptn, that's true, but discussion between contrib members are in the most cases here02:46
cptnmmh02:47
pitillo(sorry about repeating things, I have a bit of delay here)02:47
cptnbut why is the discussion about where your Profiles are on the wiki?02:47
cptnI mean, is this the most important issue?02:48
mike_kcontrib ports aren't that low-level (mostly), so it is low need to discuss aspects02:48
pitillocptn, really they don't02:48
sepencptn, now are here: rugek mike_k teK Romster j^2 sepen02:48
sepenall contributors except alancio02:48
cptnmike_k: well, what about the unmaintained ones?02:49
sependeleted02:49
cptnokay, good02:49
sepenby Romster yesterday02:49
sepenI suggest it here too02:49
sepen*ed02:49
Romsteri cleaned that mess up02:50
cptnyou know, one of the advantages of the old CLC project was that is was independent from Per02:50
mike_kcptn, if it's up to other contributors to decide - they should be taken over or deleted02:50
cptntoday, it seems contrib doesn't really appreciate that the core team don't get involved there02:50
mike_kthat's a good point02:50
sepencontrib has changed a lot in few years since Per days02:51
cptnhas it?02:51
Romsterhonestly i'd like to see some maintainers that get slack get a kick in the rear to fix there ports.02:51
mike_kit is really helpful sometimes, that you don't have to discuss every single bit before making changes. but the downside is always present.02:51
cptnfrom following this channel in the past few weeks, it seems that some of you guys are kinda frustrated02:52
cptnabout the lack of response from the crux dev team02:52
sepennot exaclty02:52
cptnand the dev team is maybe a bit annoyed about complaints coming from that frustration02:52
cptnit's just dangerous that this ends as a downwards spiral02:52
mike_kwhile, I am not frustrated I can confirm that it looks very much like that02:52
cptnsince I believe both sides (if you can call it that) only want the best02:53
cptnwhich is a great starting point :-)02:53
Romstercptn, only thing i'm anoyed with is sip and viper ports that need updating and look at the bug tracker tilman said he may give us powers to assign tickets to the maintainer so they get notified. i'd say tilman is busy and hasn't done it yet but that's a good suggestion tilman came up with.02:54
cptnyeah, I can understand that02:57
sepentilman many times has an excessive work, imho should be delegated to others02:57
cptnyeah, there are enough technical task which mean that administrative stuff often gets delayed02:58
mike_kthe side effect of low-motivated low-count team is that important ports sometimes dissapear from opt or other important repos02:59
Romsteri don't mind delays as long as things get fixed in the end but what 3 months on pinentry to be fixed?02:59
Romsteras a example.02:59
sepenmike_k, yeah Im according to this02:59
RomsterI'm glad I can use the mailing list in Australia now, but god damn it took forever to get that fixed.03:00
Romsteri could understand a month or so but a year.03:00
cptnRomster: so do you know what the problem was or rather how it was fixed?03:04
Romsterno idea and i'd be keen to know.03:05
RomsterI could receive but not post like port 25 was blocked to all of Australia for some reason.03:05
cptnwell, not for Joe Gilmour for example03:06
cptnbigpond.net.au03:06
cptnhe posted throughout 200703:06
RomsterDon't know why or how it was fixed, I'd like to know but don't really care now I'm just glad I can and the rest of the people in Australia can use the ML.03:06
RomsterMust of been a ISP block then but it affected me prologic and who ever else.03:07
Romsterand prologic repoted 2 ISP's it was blocked on and my eftel too so that's at least 3 ISP's that were blocked.03:07
RomsterMight of been some blacklist maybe for spamming but i've never spammed and my systems are secure.03:08
RomsterCan't say the same about others on the subnet of my ISP.03:08
cptnthat might be a good explanation then03:08
cptnalthough blocking the whole ISP seems a bit radical03:09
RomsterI've seen it happen before but that's the only conclusion I've came up with.03:10
RomsterHappened with other sites that is.03:11
cruxbot[opt.git]: scummvm: updated to 0.11.103:16
cptnone thing I wanted to ask for a while:03:17
cptnwho wrote cruxbot, and are its source available?03:17
Romstertilman, wrote that.03:17
cptnah03:17
cruxbot[contrib.git]: swfdec: 0.6.4 -> 0.6.603:19
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tilmancptn: it's source is availabe in crux.nu:~tilman :)03:42
cptnah03:43
tilmancptn: irctest.rb and git_watcher.rb and INotify.rb03:43
cptncool, thanks03:43
cptnI was just wondering how hard it would be to add the commit user to the message03:45
cptnI'll have a look then03:45
cruxbot[contrib.git]: libidn: 1.7 -> 1.803:49
nipuLcptn: have you rejoined the crux team?03:50
mike_kcptn: at least is there any chance?03:50
cptnnipuL: no :-)03:51
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sepen:[03:52
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cptnmike_k: never say never :-)03:52
cptnI'd actually like to help with some community efforts03:53
cptnbut I'm not sure if the dev team shares my ideas :-)03:53
cptnso I'm waiting for the next dev meeting03:53
cptnit's certainly not fair to just hang out hear and talk about problems without helping :-)03:54
pitillocptn, can you share them?03:54
cptns/hear/here/03:54
cptnwell, it's nothing major03:54
cptnI'd just like both users and devs to be happier03:54
cptnand I think there's room for improvement03:54
pitilloyeah, but can be good to hear them and think about before explaining them in a meeting03:54
cptnhistorically, there were no efforts to build a community around CRUX03:55
cptnit just happened03:55
cptnI believe that doing some more in this area might help CRUX to attract more developers03:56
pitillowell, I think that was lot time ago (I am quite new here and I found CRUX like a comunity)03:56
cptni.e. don't change the goals, just make them a bit more visible03:56
sepen<cptn> I believe that doing some more in this area might help CRUX to attract more developer03:56
sepen+103:56
cptnat the same time, it will mean more noobs03:56
nipuLwell it's winter here, i'll need something to burn03:57
pitillocptn, that is the point of a comunity, go ahead to make these goals made03:57
nipuL(re: noobs)03:57
pitillocptn, well, I think noobs aren't a problem at first... if they want to learn and are prepared to start learning with the comunity resources (good resources in my opinion)03:58
cptnsure. when I was a developer, I wishes we were a bit more organized03:58
cptnthe team ideas03:58
pitillocptn, all people has a start and it's well defined at handbook that CRUX is targeted for experienced users03:58
cptnsince again historically, it was a bunch of port maintainers working together03:59
cptnsharing all the surrounding tasks03:59
cptnI'd like to see more non-maintainers helping03:59
pitillocptn, I find the organization a bit lost by now (I told that in the ML some time ago) but it's hard to make all people focus in CRUX all the time03:59
cptnyeah, there's downsides of that too03:59
cptnit usually involves administrative overhead04:00
cptnwhich I hate as much as the next guy04:00
pitillocptn, I'm not a contributor but I feel I try to help in some ways (helping people with CRUX problems in the senses I can or i know, I try to give ideas too, that can be or not shared, but at least can be readed and discussed)04:00
cptnpitillo: yeah, that's great04:01
cptnI mean, the current community is good IMO04:01
cptnit's just that there are many efforts going on which aren't very visible04:01
pitillowell, I never joined a comunity before in the sense I did with CRUX (it's not a big big comunity) and I am learning more than I did with another distros04:01
cptnespecially for those not on IRC04:01
pitillocptn, well, being here or not, the efforts are shown... ML, gitweb, and of course, here04:02
pitillothe efforts done now, and the efforts you did in your day to make CRUX what it's now... (I think this is very important)04:04
sepenpitillo, FS too04:04
cptnbottomline is: I'm more than happy to help with these things if there's an interest from the developers04:05
pitillowhen a distro grows, I think the comunity must be well organized to take the best performance of the distro and the devels/maintainers working on it04:05
cptnbut I don't think it should be forced04:05
pitillosepen, right, sorry I missed it04:05
pitillocptn, mustn't be forced, but can be forced some discussions to see all points of view04:06
pitillothat is why I asked about more meetings (and well organized with points to see in all of them, these points can be shared to the comunity to make a list of priorities and discuss the most important if there are a lot)04:08
pitillowith time, the distro itself grows in all senses (ports, users, problems, ...) and a well organized comunity will make it grows in the correct way (direction)04:09
cptnexactly04:13
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f1ydzieƄ dobry04:31
f1yoops, i mean good morning04:31
pitillolo f1y04:31
jesse_cptn: what exactly do you mean by wanting to see non-maintainers helping?04:40
cptnah, that was maybe expressed wrongly04:41
cptnyou know, I think a CRUX team member could also do "just" website work04:42
cptnbut no port maintenance04:42
cptnbut still have full access to the wiki etc.04:42
cptnor maybe just help with tools04:42
jesse_In other words, a greater amount of specialization and a clearer division of labor and tasks.04:42
cptnsounds like it04:43
nipuLi think we should just make tilman do everything, the rest of us can just hang out and look cool04:43
cptnless tasks the port maintainers have to do because no one else does them04:43
cptnmailing list adminstration, bug tracker work etc.04:43
jesse_cptn: indeed. everything appears to compound, including ports maintenance and the dreadful administrative stuff. :p04:44
pitilloI think if there aren't well defined tasks, that's hard. May be with a list, people can take a look and take part in them04:44
cptnthe problem is that as soon as you have such a project, you need a coordinator04:45
cptnbefore, it was easy since most devs know most tasks04:45
pitilloand the problem grows when the project grows04:45
cptnand again, this is project administration overhead :-)04:46
jesse_As always, yeah. :p04:47
pitillocptn, true04:47
cptnit also might mean that some devs have to do things differently than they would have prefered04:48
cptnpreviously, it was more like whoever does the work decides how to do it04:48
pitillocptn, that is the point of discussing things. Study all cases and look for the best04:49
cptnwhich got many things done (and done well) too04:49
jesse_Of course, especially the more rules and written practices show up.04:49
cptnthe problem is if you're a larger project the "best case" is usually a compromisse04:49
cruxbot[contrib.git]: amsn: Removed junk file.04:49
cptnerr04:51
pitillocptn, making that best case like a compromisse is a good signal IMO, the problem is time related (I think no one is focused only with CRUX...)04:51
cptncompromise04:51
cptnpitillo: yep04:51
cptnthat hard part is to find the proper balance04:51
cptnand I believe this has to be adjusted as the project grows04:51
pitillowell, that balance can be done with the comunity04:51
cptnyeah, _with_ the community :-)04:52
cptnand the community _with_ the developers04:52
pitillothere are good people (devels, workers, helpers) here and the best case can be done with time and with all people help04:52
cptnso arguing whether it's fair that contrib profiles are not under Profiles is not the right approach04:52
pitilloand with organization and discussions, but we relay again in the time problem04:52
cptnyes, exactly04:53
jesse_It might be a haphazardous thought to force everyone to cooperate just for the sake of community involvement.04:53
jesse_Especially if the direction that is wanted is rather far-fetched from the KISS principles and traditions crux has.04:53
pitillojesse_, you can't force anyone to do that, but if you feel you want to participate with a comunity, you must adopt the comunity opinion04:53
cptnalso, provide the technical means to help04:54
pitillojesse_, yeah, these must be the first point of the comunity, respect the distro basics04:54
pitillo*this04:54
cptnand I think CRUX is not far away from that, it's just some details that could be better04:54
cptnwhich currently no one has time for04:55
pitillobut think that now isn't the same than wich was some time ago (there wasn't a xorg repo, it was created beacuse the needed of collect all ports and organize them)04:55
pitillois this kiss or not? or are you mixing kiss with organization? (it's hard for me to explain that better)04:56
jesse_pitillo: the creation of the xorg repository happened because xorg itself changed its release practices (ie became modular).04:56
pitillojesse_, yes, but you can keep them all in opt too04:56
pitillothen you don't need a repo for it (opt will grow a lot and it will be hard to mantain xorg's ports)04:57
pitillothat is why I think xorg repo was created04:57
jesse_As you noticed yourself, it is very different to have a very large number of xorg ports compared to a single, large x11/xorg port.04:58
pitillojesse_, yes, I noticed that, and that is why I asked about kiss and organization04:59
pitilloorganization mus't be against kiss04:59
pitillomay be with a good organization you keep the kiss idea and you help to make things easier to maintain for example05:00
jesse_I do not see a conflict with organization and KISS in this case.05:01
pitillothen I missunderstood what you said about kiss principles and CRUX's traditions05:01
jesse_ok, I will try again. Involving community opinion has both good and bad sides. It is ok when they have an educated opinion and know how crux works and behaves.05:03
pitillounderstood that point05:03
jesse_If and when the community size increases, you might see newer people who want serious changes, such as make crux much more "user friendly" by making it very graphical etc etc.05:03
jesse_Crux is a unique distribution because it has a clear set of principles guiding it, and I think it would be a shame to see those principles eroded just to become more popular.05:05
cptnyep05:06
cptnthat's not what I meant though05:06
pitillojesse_, I see, that is the point of older users/devs. Explain the bad points of that. Making CRUX more graphical isn't a kiss point, you can tell/educate the user talking about that05:06
cptnI'd avoid any change in technical direction05:06
rxi!seen prologic05:06
cptnI mean, not per se, but to attract users :-)05:06
jesse_rxi: don't bother, prologic isn't coming back. :D05:06
pitillojesse_, I don't see the point of being more popular, I am trying to think from a comunity point05:06
rxiwhy not?05:07
Romsterif someone wants a gui out of the box install ubuntu *ducks for cover* if one wants to make a server/desktop with gui or not then crux is it. good to keep crux simple and let the end user build upon.05:08
pitilloif you can give reasons (from an old user point of view) and explain that to a newer user, you can educate him, and may be, if he want to understand, he can be usefull for the comunity too05:08
jesse_rxi: he had his knickers in a serious twist over contrib and he left.05:09
rxiahh05:09
f1yhm can i add something to discussion?05:10
jesse_f1y: go ahead.05:10
f1yi think that there is no need to thinking about user needs - f.e. what if he likes more gui or more secured apps05:11
f1ycrux is a good distro for some kind of users - there are more users every day, but this migration into crux is very slow - and this is good05:11
jesse_I agree, and I did say earlier that the core of crux is the most important aspect.05:11
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f1yif you think, can read manuals, faq and look for inormation, and ofc you are nof afraid of console  - crux is for you05:12
f1yif not - there are so many distros05:12
jesse_Since that is what allows for a running system, and it gives the user the necessary freedom to make their own choices to suit their needs.05:12
cptnmmmh05:13
cptndid anyone actually want this?05:13
cptnI mean, change the technical aspects of crux?05:13
jesse_Hopefully not.05:14
f1ycptn: never! no way! change nothing please :)05:14
jesse_cptn: this element crept in because if and when the community would start to grow, it is likely there would be voices of change in the air.05:15
Romsterthe best way is keep crux simple and have howto's onto how to extend it.05:16
Romstercptn, i got ideas but doesn't seem to men much i mean as soon as i try something new in Pkgfiles i get accused of forcing stuff..05:18
Romstereven if the rewards outweigh the cost long term.05:18
Rotwanggood ol' conservative crux ;]05:19
jesse_Romster: well it is forcing when a decision is made and put into practice without properly informing.05:20
jesse_Rotwang: :D05:20
* Rotwang is going to post some pkgmk patch soon05:22
RomsterRotwang, todo what?05:22
Romsternone of mine have made it into pkgmk yet.05:22
Rotwangto add additional options to wget through Pkgfile05:23
Rotwanglike --no-check-certificate05:26
Romsteriirc a patch for no certifictes has been added but not released a new version yet.05:26
Rotwanghm05:31
Rotwangwhy .nostrip thing is nowhere documented?05:31
Rotwangno word about .nostrip in manual05:32
Rotwangweird :\05:32
Romsterstrange. is it in the man page.. only reason i know of is i looked though pkgmk05:36
tilmanRotwang: i'll fix that. if i remember to do it :D05:41
Romsterthsoe that need the .nostrip would be the ones that have made a stack of ports and would of found it one way or another i'd imagine.05:42
cptnRomster: mmmh, well05:54
cptnRomster: there's a difference between trying something, and for example sending a mail to the ML showing it05:54
cptnRomster: or to just introduce it to contrib without ever asking whether this might be a good idea05:55
cruxbot[contrib.git]: gst-plugins-bad: 0.10.6 -> 0.10.705:55
cptnand regarding the reward outweighting the cost...05:56
cptnthat depends on how you look at it05:56
cptnthere's also acost of maintaining (more) complex software05:57
cptnit's easy to just add one feature after the other05:57
cptneach of them might be simple, and have some advantage05:57
sepenRomster, are you maintaining gst-plugins-bad in gnome and contrib repos? are you a gnome maintainer too?05:58
sepenhmmm05:58
sepennice ports05:58
Romsterno just the ones in contrib06:00
cruxbot[contrib.git]: aircrack-ng: New port.06:00
sepen;)06:01
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cruxbot[contrib.git]: gst-plugins-good: 0.10.7 -> 0.10.806:08
Romstersepen, i just wanted gstreamer minus gnome.06:11
Romstergone is bad for dependencies but i haven't looked recently how jaeger has it now currently.06:12
tilmancptn: it's trivial ;)06:13
tilmannipuL: nein!06:13
cptntilman: I bet :-)06:13
sepenRomster, ok06:13
cptnmaybe 1h to port it to perl06:13
cptnthen 5 min to implement the new feature06:13
cptn;-)06:13
f1ywhat is better for making wmii port? there is no configure, so there is need to edit config.mk. what is better: to write diff and patch config.mk, or just to replace lines with sed/awk or someting else?06:14
cptnwell, in this case sed might be better06:15
cptnsince users can then adapt the Pkgfile and enable/disable certain features06:15
thrice`depends how much you change.  patch might be easier to manage06:15
cptntypically, patches are easier to understand, and can often be sent upstream06:15
cptnbut not in that case I guess :-)06:16
thrice`sounds like dwm, where you have to edit dwm to get settings correct06:16
Romsteruse sed if it's something simple if you end up with like 5 sed expressions then use a patch.06:16
f1ywell, there are only 2 lines for change, path ofc and manpath06:16
cptnah06:17
Romstersed is fine then.06:17
f1ythe rest should stay untouched, some compiling options etc, but...06:17
cptnthen it doesn't really matter06:17
thrice`probably sed then :)06:17
Romsteri often use sed to fix man path.06:17
Romsterwhere it's hard coded.06:17
f1ythrice`: there is a difference - wmii has its own configs working after every restart of wm, dwm needs to have C config.h edited and then recompiled06:18
f1yok, so from now on i will use sed/awk for packages with up to 5 changes in file :)06:19
thrice`f1y: ah, makes sense :)06:19
Romsterf1y, if you think it's getting hard to read all the seds it's time to make a patch.06:21
f1ywill remember that :)06:23
f1yand i must admit that one month on crux gave me more knowledge and experience about os than other distros for 1 year06:25
Romsterf1y, yes that's one thing i love about crux06:26
thrice`f1y: you can see what others did, too, by searching the portsdb:06:26
Romsterdoesn't hide anything doesn't try to treat the user as dumb.06:26
thrice`http://www.sti2.at/~richardp/ports/wmii/Pkgfile06:26
f1yahh yes, thank you06:27
Romsterah yes look though other ports but look out for some have bad ways in my opinion06:27
f1yRotwang told me 'always read Pkgfile'06:28
Romsterno need to quote "$name-$version" but that's the prefered way to pass vars to make and the export too.06:28
f1yeasy to update package version in future06:29
Romsterand if you have to patch something badly sometimes it's easier to include the file as in say firefox with the mozconfig06:30
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cruxbot[contrib.git]: tor: 0.2.0.24-rc -> 0.2.0.25-rc06:51
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f1yyay, i've made it :) i have my own repo :P07:58
jesse_\o/07:58
jesse_Simplicity is so nice eh. ;)07:58
f1yfor now it is only for testing, but in the future, when i'll buy some new hdd, maybe ill put 24h/7d online server... :>07:58
f1yi love this distro <307:59
f1ydamn, years on pld, gentoo, arch - wasted, maybe except some admin skills08:00
Romsterheh08:01
Romsterwell programs would still behave the same i'd imagine.08:02
Romsterjust the subsystem is a bit different.08:02
f1ywell almost, but i was thinking rather of subsystem than of programs08:03
f1yin the past my programs just have to work, now i make it to work as i want08:04
pitilloI miss the topic I read first time I entered here... welcome to the temple of knowledge... what a truth :P08:05
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Romsteroh nice i never saw that topic.08:05
Romsternow it's a dumbifyed 'You may have to wait more than 3 seconds for an answer'08:06
pitilloxD08:06
pitillomay be you didn't noticed that08:06
Romstermaybe i didn't.08:06
sepenxD08:08
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cptntilman: thinking about it, the message would probably become too long08:56
cptntilman: since we can only go for full names or emails08:56
sepenxDD http://www.tilman.org/  This page is empty. =)09:00
cptntilman: that said, this might be interesting nonetheless09:05
cptntilman: http://jw.smts.ch/files/crux/cruxbot-format.diff09:05
cptn(untested :-))09:06
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j^2hey cptn !09:45
cptnhey j^209:46
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tilmancptn: you forgot to fill in the format specifier, didn't you?10:02
tilmanerr, not specifier10:02
tilmanit looks like you want to send that whole string through sprintf, replacing %s with a user defined format10:02
cptnno, not really10:02
cptngit does that already10:03
cptn%s -> title10:03
tilmand'oh10:03
cptnit's still perfectly the same10:03
cptnthis patch just avoids the substring call in ruby10:03
tilmanyeah, it's nice10:04
tilmanthanks10:04
cptnbut adding the author would be really simple :-)10:04
tilmannot sure how much value that really adds though10:04
tilman:p10:04
cptnnone, probably -)10:04
cptnbut if you don't apply it I'll whine daily10:05
mike_klike seeing self-highlighted irc log10:05
cptnand call you conservative!10:05
tilman:D10:05
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cruxbot[opt.git]: ruby-cairo: updated to 1.6.1.10:15
tilmancptn: it even works10:15
cptn\o/10:17
cptnmaybe we could use the username part of the commit e-mail10:19
tilmanaon: 500%? omg ;)10:25
Rotwang6 members ;]10:26
tilmanyeah10:27
cruxbot[contrib.git]: lirc: Adopted, updated to 0.8.2.10:44
Romstercan anyone confirm that libmp4v2 is broken.10:50
Romstersomething about libtool.10:51
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pitilloRomster, it's broken. waiting again to wgetpaste11:00
Rotwanglol its looping Oo11:01
pitillohttp://rafb.net/p/0IPeM137.html11:01
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pitillogoing home, i hope it can be usefull11:01
Rotwangah no11:01
Rotwanglibtool: Version mismatch error.  This is libtool 2.2.2, but the11:01
Rotwanglibtool: definition of this LT_INIT comes from an older release.11:01
Romsterta pitillo thought it was broken.11:02
RomsterRomster, yeah but it dies later on.11:02
Romsteri even ran autoconf and aclocal11:02
Romsteri'll just report it and let the maintainer mess with it.11:03
Romsterisn't even being updated anymore so it's gonna get more broken.11:04
Romsterunless someone forks it11:04
Romsteroh wow i got it to build...11:16
Romsterguess i didn't try hard enough11:17
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pitilloummm I saw it wasn't tested on a clean system, testing it again11:39
Romsteryeah i've made it work.11:39
pitilloif you want me to test it, I can do it11:39
Romsterk let me finish my patching first.11:40
pitilloof course11:40
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aontilman: yes12:08
aoniirc there are 6 persons12:08
aon1+5=+500% :)12:08
* aon is testing a "roommate"'s hdspa modem12:10
aonnow i know why he always ircs next to the window :)12:10
Romsterpitillo, http://rafb.net/p/2zBGcK98.txt12:32
pitilloRomster, checking12:32
Romsteri failed to be able to exclude gtk and glib i tryed that sed line...12:32
Romsterbut it fails later at configure stage12:32
Romsterwhat i don't get is that first sed line writes to line 2 of the file not line 1 why?12:33
Romstersed -i -e '1am4_pattern_allow([^AM_PATH_G.*_2_0$])' configure.in12:33
Romstersays line 1 but it writes to line 2.12:33
Romsterpuzzled.12:34
pitilloummm here crashed with that Pkgfile12:34
Romsterdepinst..12:34
pitillochecking what you said about these sed lines12:34
pitilloummmm the another one hadn't deps, sorry, redoing again12:34
Romsterwit them sed liens and only alsalib and libsdl.12:34
Romsterwith*12:34
Romsterlines*12:34
Romsterargh my typing..12:34
Romsteri tryed with them sed lines enabled and omit gtk depedency.12:35
Romsterfailed but with gtk that included glib and comment out the sed lines it works but pulls in a crap load of ports.12:36
pitillowell, this can be a bit slow12:36
Romsteri use gtk that's fine for me but not everyone would want all them dependencys.12:36
Romsterah you don't have them deps prebuilt...12:36
pitilloyes yes, btw, it will be a bit slow too12:37
pitilloxD12:37
aonRomster: you need to do "1i..." instead of "1a..." to get it before12:37
aonrtfm ffs :)12:37
aonappend: add to the very end; "He appended a glossary to his novel where he used an invented language"12:38
Romsteraon, was reading and googling12:39
pitilloRomster, it was built fine12:39
Romsteraon, ah i was silly there... d'oh12:40
Romsterpitillo, yeah but pulls in all of gtk...12:41
Romsterwhen it doesn't need it.12:41
Romsterthat's why i tryed to bypass having to have them deps.12:41
pitilloyes, I am trying to look for deps12:41
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Romsterhttp://rafb.net/p/acikrR46.txt12:42
Romsterlike that..12:42
Romsterbut it fails later in configure checking glib so looks like major hacking i don't know configure that well12:43
predatorfreakI have a much more simplified version of that12:43
Romsterand if removing that chunk of code for glib and gtk checking would bork anything else.12:43
Romsteroh hi predatorfreak poped in unexpectedly.12:44
predatorfreak:312:44
predatorfreakThat's what I do12:44
RyoShai predo12:45
RyoS~12:45
Romsteryeah a bit of hacking a port trying to avoid gtk as a dependency.12:45
* predatorfreak eats RyoS 12:45
Romsterhehe12:45
RyoSharhar12:45
RyoSi shall poison your stomach!12:45
Romsterso predatorfreak you have a working simpler verion of that?12:46
Romsterversion*12:46
Romsterno wonder i call it auto hell , fun trying to understand it all.12:47
predatorfreakRomster: Semi-working... libtool changes borked it.12:47
Romsterthis i tryed to avoid heaps of dependencys: http://rafb.net/p/acikrR46.txt and this i got working: http://rafb.net/p/2zBGcK98.txt12:48
Romstertryed to avoid gtk and glib but i failed.12:49
predatorfreakGood luck avoiding deps with libmp4v2.12:49
predatorfreakand mine is "simpler" because it's an actual full mpeg4ip build XD12:50
predatorfreakIt has none of the libmp4v2-only finicking around.12:50
Romsterlibmp4v2 is mess tha's falling apart and it's not being worked on anymore...12:50
predatorfreakYeah, but mp4tags is still useful.12:50
cruxbot[contrib.git]: herrie: updated to 2.0.212:50
Romsterneed a alternative or if someone picks up working on that.12:50
pitilloRomster, for me it's quite hard to do something with it12:51
Romstereh i'll just report what i've found and let Jaeger deal with it.12:53
predatorfreakRomster: BTW12:56
predatorfreakYou'd have to do --mandir=/usr/man12:56
predatorfreakBecause it assumes mandir=/usr/share/man after redoing aclocal/autoconf12:57
tilmancptn: do you happen to know whether we imported "ports" into subversion ages ago?12:58
tilmanports(8)13:01
cptnmmmh, can't remember13:02
cptnI think you and sip did most if that13:02
tilmani did nothing of that13:03
tilmani'll mail sip13:03
tilmanty13:03
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Romsterpredatorfreak, oh..13:03
Romsterwell doesn't apply to this port but i'll remember that.13:05
predatorfreakActually, it does.13:06
predatorfreaklibmp4v2 put the damn man files in /usr/share/man for me.13:07
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Romsterhmmz it arn't in jaegers port....13:17
Romstereh i've lost caring i've patched it it works i've emailed it off.13:18
predatorfreakRomster: \o/13:22
predatorfreakLaziness prevails again13:22
Romsteroi i spent hours messing with it.13:23
Romsteri've had enough.13:23
predatorfreakBeat it with a stick.13:23
predatorfreakProblem solved13:23
Romsterbe thankful i made a patch and sent it off to jaeger.13:24
predatorfreakRomster: I've had my own personal libmp4v2 since forever, so, I don't need to thank you :D13:24
predatorfreakbut thanks anyway, even though I won't be using any other version of libmp4v2 than mine :P13:25
Romsterwell you can fix yours to what i found <<13:27
predatorfreakYep :D13:29
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Romsterhttp://news.slashdot.org/news/08/04/24/1426220.shtml14:19
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^racer^quiz:  Do the pre-install and post-install scripts get run automatically?17:37
^racer^or do they have to be run manually?17:37
^racer^ah hah, of course, thanks for the help :)17:46
thrice`^racer^: manually; thought you can set it up in /etc/prt-get.conf to run automatically18:33
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mavrick61Any core member here...20:10
predatorfreakmavrick61: Nope.20:11
predatorfreakThey're all away.20:11
mavrick61OK.. Need to change IP-adress on Crux server...20:12
mavrick61Any one here who can test www.crux.nu20:29
predatorfreakwaiting... waiting...20:31
predatorfreakno route to host20:31
predatorfreakDNS is probably just stale for me20:31
mavrick61OK.. DNS TTL 3600 sec.. So it might take an other 30-40 minute before it will be updated..20:34
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mavrick61Hmmm now "cruxbot" didn't work any more..20:38
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