IRC Logs for #crux Monday, 2008-04-28

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nipuLthis is #centos?01:07
pitillogood morning01:10
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pitilloRotwang, I answered you to your post in contrib ML, but seems that there is a delay or some kind of problem (I used the correct adress, the one I subscribed there)03:21
pitilloRotwang, I added a attach with a little log of some of your ports. Take a look to it if you can, http://lokalix.dyndns.org/crux/logs/mxq.log03:23
Rotwangpitillo: k, i got it ;]03:23
Rotwangthanks for your interest i need to look closer at the cream tho.03:24
pitilloRotwang, np, I hope it can be usefull to fix little problems03:26
Rotwangports that id put in contrib would have deps from official and halfofficial repos03:27
Rotwangand would be tested in clean environment03:27
mike_knonofficial repos are against the relues03:28
pitillowell, think that all your ports' deps must be in opt/contrib03:28
mike_k*rules03:28
Rotwangports from my private repo too?03:28
Rotwangmust have deps from official repos?03:29
pitillomike_k, right, that is why I reported that some of the deps must be in contrib too03:29
tilmanprivate repo is private03:29
pitilloRotwang, your private repo is only that, private, but for contrib ports you must follow the guidelines03:29
tilmando what you feel with your private repo03:29
aonhey03:30
pitillohello aon03:30
tilmancontrib ports may depend on core/opt/xorg/contrib ports03:30
tilmanif your new port depends on xfce stuff, i think it would be better to put it in the xfce repo, for example03:30
pitilloright, I forgot to mention xorg03:30
tilmanmorning, btw03:31
mike_ktilman: any chance to get this police discussed/rethinked? xfce/kde/gnome looks pretty much like one person's effort.03:31
pitillothere are some wich can be included in kde, because seems that they depends in kdelibs03:31
mike_kpushing some stuff there might be a problem03:31
mike_k*policy03:31
Rotwangpitillo: weird i dont get that mismatch with cream :\03:32
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tilmanare you suggesting to put xfce/kde/gnome on the "list of allowed dependency repos"?03:32
pitillomike_k, in this case, these ports musn't be important for kde core03:32
tilmanmike^03:32
mike_ktilman: kinda03:32
tilmanmmh, i guess it should be okay03:33
mike_kanother approach would be making them more open (for contrib). but each has a person behind who might want to maintain all that himself.03:34
tilmanand gnome is maintained Elsewhere[tm]03:34
pitillomay be talking with these repos maintainers to add ports to the repo03:34
tilmanwhich makes it a bit more complicate even03:34
mike_ktilman: please, put this on a to-discuss list for the next crux-devel meeting. (I think I had an unsucceful attempt some time ago)03:35
tilmanwill do03:35
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pitillois there a way to see a meeting topic list? (and a way to add/remove items)03:35
mike_kpitillo: not every port wich depends on (say) kde would fit in the kde repo itself. and so on/03:36
tilmani just put that in my ~/.todo :D03:36
tilman  2. kde/gnome/xfce als contrib-deps erlauben?03:36
tilman  6. sha256 pkgutils03:36
tilman^^^ meeting stuff03:36
mike_kpitillo: ask tilman for an ssh access to his desktop03:36
pitilloxD03:36
mike_ksha256!03:37
tilmanwe could add a publically editable wiki page for things-to-be-discussed03:37
tilmanit sucks that i'm the only idiot who's on irc most of the time03:37
* mike_k hopes predatorfreak is still around03:37
pitillotilman, that is what I meant, I think it can be usefull03:38
pitillotilman, there are some...03:38
aonhttp://www.explosm.net/comics/1184/03:38
tilmani hate cyanide ^ happiness03:38
tilmanit's crap03:38
mike_ktilman: just don't feel guilty when you want to leave the town03:39
aontilman: yes, and that's what's so good about it03:39
tilmannew house tonight03:42
Rotwangpitillo: thanks again for your help, i ve fixed what i could, and ill take closer look at cream later03:42
aonanyway, gtg drink coffee now03:42
tilmanmuch more important than crux things :p03:42
aonand must hurry at that, too :S03:42
pitilloRotwang, no problem, I hope that can be usefull03:42
Rotwangcream worried me ;] ill study install script later03:44
tilmancream? the bastardized vim?03:45
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Rotwangi dont use it ;]03:46
aonwhat, you can actually bastardize vim?03:47
pitilloin this case gvim...03:48
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ximondaMoin!03:52
tilmanmoin03:52
ximondaAnother day, another story:03:53
pitilloxD03:53
ximondaWhy is time sometimes moving backwards in CRUX?03:53
tilmanhuh03:53
tilmanmaybe you adjusting the system clock, and the actual change is applied in short intervals03:54
tilmanas opposed to applying it at once03:54
ximondaWell, there are several possibilities...03:54
ximondabut I ran into:03:54
Romsterntp03:54
ximondahttp://wiki.dovecot.org/TimeMovedBackwards03:54
ximondawhich is _not_ nice.03:54
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ximondaIn CRUX, the problem is with rdate.03:56
Romsterximonda, fix your ntpd and if the time is that far out there is someting wrong with the crystal on the mobo.03:56
tilmanrdate behaves like ntpdate03:56
tilmanit "just moves the time forward/backward"03:56
tilmanso why not just do like thw page suggests and use ntpd?03:56
tilmanthe bug is in rdate, not crux o_O03:56
ximondayes...03:56
ximondaBut rdate is the default after a CRUX setup, isn't it?03:57
tilmanit's disabled by default03:57
ximondait's not active... but see your /etc/cron/daily03:57
Romsterprt-get depinst openntpd03:57
Romsterntpd[2300]: adjusting local clock by -0.163724s03:58
tilmanwell03:58
Romsterdoesn't change the clock by much03:58
Romster#/usr/bin/rdate -s <server>03:59
Romstercommented out...03:59
Romsterso inactive as tilman said.03:59
ximondaRomster: Acked that already.04:00
Romsterso what is the issue install a ntpd ?04:00
Romsteror don't use any syncing at all..04:00
ximondaThere is no issue installing something else... the issue is that it's easy to create a problem, if you use rdate here.04:02
ximondaIt's just a heads-up!04:02
Romsterah ok..04:03
Romstermaybe a warning should be added about that.04:03
ximondaYes. We should either replace rdate in the cronjobs or document that issue.04:04
ximondaBecause we all will forget.04:05
Romsteri never hit it since i added ntpd to all my hosts. but yes someone else may hit that problem.04:05
ximondaI was someone else. :-)04:05
ximondaI just didn't know that rdate doesn't work in all cases so well.04:06
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Romsterah :)04:08
Romsternow what was i gonna do...04:09
Romsteri so forgot.04:09
pitilloRomster, when you send the email to the contrib-ml? is the date correct on it?04:14
Romsternot long ago a few minutes and yes it's got the right timestamp04:15
Romsterpost acknowledgement...04:16
ximondaRomster: do you use the Serverpool at ntp.org?04:16
Romsteri thought i had that off.04:16
Romsterximonda, yes04:16
pitilloummm strage, I tried to send 1 from 1 addres (a few hours ago) and another one from another address (to see if I weren't subscribed with the first) but no way to post the answer04:16
ximondaRomster: working fine?04:16
Romsterit's never given me any issues04:16
Romsterexcept i can't get any other ntpd sync of the one i got on my gateway so i pointed them all to the serverpool04:17
Romsterand yes i had udp port 123 open...04:17
Romsterand the ip set for eth104:18
Romsterso maybe i did something wrong with trying to get the ntpd to listen for conectons.04:18
ximondaI only have a single machine there... no need to open something up.04:20
ximondaseems to work.04:20
Romsteri have 3 here.04:21
Romsterthat are online at lest.04:21
Romsteri'll try it again later when i get around to it.04:22
Romsterit'll work forever in the ntp pool.04:22
Romsteri just had that other issue that i did a less than perfect fix up.04:22
Romsterbut still works just means i send out ntp packets for 3 machines instead of one.04:23
ximondawhere is it written how often is ntpd syncing it's time?04:24
ximondaApr 28 11:18:35 paui ntpd[29370]: adjusting local clock by 1.008216s04:27
ximondanow several times in a row...04:27
ximondaEither my crystal is severely broken or ptbtime differs a lot from the ntppool.... *grummel*04:28
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pitilloummm posted in a few seconds a new message, but no way to post a reply... strange. I will look to see if I can find what am I doing bad04:32
pitilloohmmmm, replying to the sender... sorry04:32
Romsterah it does it if the time is more than 128ms out not sure it's interval man ntpd04:35
Romsterximonda, it'll do it several times in a row small amounts until it's close then the frequency will be less of.04:37
Romsterpitillo, ah yeah reply to the ML not the sender to the ML...04:37
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pitilloRomster, yep... I must be a bit sleept to don't notice that...04:38
Romsterah well.04:39
ximondaRomster: The big time difference now tells me either, the -6 seconds step of rdate syncing to ptbtime2 this morning at 7am (which kicked dovecot to death) was wrong or my04:39
ximondaserver's clock is doing something very wierd.04:40
Romsterif it's very far out i set the time closer and then let it sync itself make sure your TIMEZONE= is correct04:41
Romsterin /etc/rc.conf04:41
Romsterelse you'll end up with a time thats way diferent when you wake up.04:43
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mwansa\o/ 2hrs till GTA realese :P04:56
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ximondaRomster: I am talking about something like 6..10 seconds.05:01
Romstercheck you got your timezone right.05:02
ximondaI just did, it's right.05:02
Romsterk so how far off is your time now.05:02
Romsterjsut hit 20:03 here05:03
Romstergive a few seconds.05:03
Romsteri'm in +10 GMT05:04
ximondaRomster: Don't worry... it's only about seconds...05:04
Romsterk well it'll sync it evently05:05
Romsterthat's it's job and it does it in small amounts so it don't throw programs off.05:05
ximondaThe syncs are already quite small ... approaching <128ms now.05:05
Romsterthro the ntpd into the SERVICES= array while your at it.05:06
Romsterk so it'll stop loging it so oftern then.05:06
Romsteri find a sync after a hour or so.05:06
Romsterdepending on network latency.05:06
Romsteri'm off to bed05:07
Romsteri'll read the backlog when i wake up.05:07
Romsterg'night everyone.05:07
ximondahttp://paste.lisp.org/display/5984005:07
Romsterdispatch_imsg in main: pipe closed05:08
Romsternever seen that happen before.05:08
ximondainteresting...05:08
ximondait's in SERVICES= already...05:08
ximondaRomster: Thanks...05:08
ximondaRomster: My guess is that rdate / ptbtime2 (the old server) choked somehow that dovecot complained...05:09
ximondaRomster: The server is up now for far more than a year with this setup and I never had a problem with rdate/dovecot timejumps...05:09
Romsterximonda, http://paste.lisp.org/display/59840#105:10
ximondaRomster: ntpd is working fine now...05:10
Romsterya showing how it'll get less oftern.05:10
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Romstermust of missed a packet or something on that one that error-ed on you.05:10
juehello05:11
Romsterhi jue05:11
Romsteri'm about to cruse to bed.05:11
ximondaRomster: something like that...05:11
ximondaRomster: Have a nice night... hopefully you don't step into some time-gap when you are asleep ;-)05:11
Romsterximonda, i'd say sey openntpd and forget it it'll look after itself.05:11
Romstersay*05:11
Romstererr that was ment to be set*05:11
ximondaRomster: Yup... moved to ntpd.05:11
Romstersee i need sleep.05:12
ximondacu05:12
* jue points on chrony05:12
Romsterlol05:12
juefor most people better than ntp05:12
Romsterximonda,  some time vortex.05:12
Romsterjue, ah ok i've had no issuses with openntpd other than it wont work as a server to point other ntpd's to it.05:13
Romsteri'll read it when i wake up.05:13
Romsterlater.05:13
jueRomster: I don't say that ntpd has issues, but chrony can deal better with large time diffs and offline conditions05:14
ximondajue: in my case, ntpd seems to be the right decision...05:15
ximondajue: I (hopefully) won't have large time diffs and offlie conditions.05:15
juechrony does exactly the same as ntpd05:15
juethe only big difference is that chrony cannot handle special hardware clocks05:16
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juesepen: please revert your last commit to xfce-utils, it breaks xfce4-about06:36
juethe "junk" files are needed in that case06:37
teKtilman06:39
tilmantek06:40
teKwireshark won't compile if one has kerberos installed (it failes with ssl not found, --with-ssl=/usr/lib/ssl or so makes it work again). Is there any need for changes regarding your port?06:42
teKand yes there's no official heimdal port in CRUX (yet).. I've got a working version on my private server; I could easily add it to contrib/06:42
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tilmanteK: uh, i know nothing about kerberos07:06
tilmani can add that ssl thing though?07:06
teKyes, I will recheck tonight and notice you again, ok?07:07
tilmansure07:08
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sepenjue, ok ill do07:38
sepenjue, Ill pay attention and try to find a better solution07:39
juesepen: better?07:48
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sepenjue, I mean just a fix for it09:01
cruxbot[xfce.git]: xfce4-utils: Reverted changes that removes some junk files and breaks xfce-about binary. (thanks to Juergen)09:06
cruxbot[contrib.git]: qca: Fixed paths and cleanup.10:02
cruxbot[contrib.git]: psi-im: Updated 0.10 -> 0.12-RC2. Fixed issues with 'qca' too.10:04
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j^2what is going on my fellow cruxians10:27
RedShiftj^2: nothing mutch10:29
RedShifttired10:29
j^2:-/10:29
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tilmanhttp://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=47745411:09
thrice`heh11:16
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mavrick61Any core members here?11:50
tilmanyes11:50
mavrick61Have you get the info about new IP-address.11:51
tilmanno, but i can ask simone now11:51
mavrick61I have made changes on server and DNS.. But I don't know if there is other references...11:51
mavrick61to that IP11:51
mavrick61We have now new Internet access.. Dual connection.. http://www.kalmarndc.se/lan-wan/11:52
tilmanmavrick61: thanks, but it's very likely okay. i'll let you know when i hear from simone11:54
mavrick61www.crux.nu work fine and I hope eMail dose too...11:55
tilmanmavrick61: just sent a test mail and it arrived :)11:57
mavrick61Nice11:57
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ximondatilman: Isn't simone on holiday?12:11
tilmanno, that's simon12:12
ximondaah, similar.12:12
tilmansimone = sip = italian guy12:12
tilmansimon = viper = german guy12:12
ximondasorry.12:12
tilman;p12:12
jesse_"No, this can't result in a lawsuit against Debian, please take your bullshit elsewhere. kthxbye" lol12:41
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teKtilman: --with-ssl=/usr/lib makes wiresharks' configure script work .. I think this is a bug in ./configure ..13:24
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tilmanteK: will do tomorrow. ENOTIME tonight15:39
teK;)15:51
ximondan8, tilman!15:57
tilmannighty15:57
teKgn816:02
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ximondagood night... I'm out17:58
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j^2:O19:14
j^2http://digg.com/linux_unix/Hans_is_guilty19:15
mwansa:O19:20
cruxbot[contrib.git]: lvm2: update patch to rc files (thanks denis yantarev)20:04
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Romsterj^2, damn..20:19
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predatorfreakhttp://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/04/reiser-guilty-o.html22:25
* mwansa runs mkesfs -j on his pre reisfs partition22:29
mwansamke2fs*22:29
predatorfreakmwansa: Too late, you murderer22:30
Romsterext3 is slow but i run it.22:31
Romsteri was thinking of moving to JFS for my next FS but i'd really like BtrFS22:32
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mwansaRomster, is BtrFs meant to replace ext3 or is a seperate project ?22:37
predatorfreakext4 is meant to replace ext3.22:38
predatorfreakBrtFS is a separate project with similar goals.22:38
predatorfreakBut a different design.22:38
mwansanice22:43
Romsterseperate project22:52
RomsterBtrFS will be more like LVM222:53
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mwansayea i like BtrFS' goals..22:54
mwansaseems like its gonna be a kickass fs22:54
predatorfreakRomster: Uhh not really.23:04
Romsteryeah23:04
predatorfreakIt's an FS with built-in volume management.23:04
Romsterwell the reverse way around to LVM223:04
predatorfreakLVM is abstraction layer23:04
Romstersomething like that forget i said anything...23:04
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RomsterBtrFS will act like raid as in copying not sure if it does striping23:05
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predatorfreakRomster: Google it, it says it does striping :D23:08
Romsterah sweet.23:11
Romsteronly complaint is i want it stable now <<23:11
Romsterand complete.23:11
Romsterwho's got a time machine? <_<23:11
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predatorfreakRomster: Not me.23:29
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cruxbot[contrib.git]: boost-regex: new port23:54
Romsterargh wtf boost-regex is in boost yet it god damn says on the documentation it needs to be built on it's own.23:58

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