IRC Logs for #crux Wednesday, 2008-04-30

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pitillogood morning00:59
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Romsterg'day mate01:03
pitillolo Romster :)01:16
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Romsterevennnnning :P02:12
Romsterwell almost not quite 6pm yet.02:12
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mwansaumm anyone running vlc that can verify that they can get sound with .iso files03:32
mwansacant get sound even with libcdio03:32
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tilmanhi jue03:42
pitillomorning jue03:42
pitillomwansa, can't test it here03:43
sepenjue, mod_php builts fine without mysql and/or apache, why are they listed as dependencies instead of Nice to have?03:44
juewithout apache, are you sure?03:46
tilmanmod_php is an apache module,  no? ._o03:46
sepenbut could be renamed to php503:46
sepenphp5 developers don't need an apache server for testing their scripts03:46
jueit's a apache module03:46
sepenand sometimes php scripts aren't web oriented03:46
sepenok jue03:46
sepenbut mysql?03:46
jueit's the way I'm using it, there are hundreds of other configure option03:47
aonpeople sometimes forget that crux used to be a distribution without dependency handling03:48
aonand nothing forces them your throat now either03:49
jueall the apache/mod stuff is more like a template for me, the serious admin has to configure it the way he needs03:49
sepenyeah, but its an opt port, I use my own repo for port adjusted to my own use.03:49
tilmani'd like to see a standalone php port, too03:49
tilmanthat you can use with cgi/fcgi on lighty eg03:49
aoni thought that part of the reasoning against use flags was that it's easy enough to modify the deps as is03:50
sepenIm using sepen/php4 from console for developing php scripts03:50
jueI have such one in my personal repo03:50
aonand now you can't remove a word or two, or use prt-get install03:50
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sepenjue, just I mean something like opt/qt4 does for SQL flags03:51
juesepen: too much effort IMHO03:53
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juesepen: who needs mod_php?03:54
sepenjue, its only a suggestion, don't worry03:55
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jueprincipally I don't like ports that change their configuration based on installed programms, it's the big issue if you have an build host to provide packages for a network04:00
pitillocrux-contrib section in FS must be managed by contrib members? (can be assigned tasks to maintainers by contrib members now?)04:00
sepenjue, Im according to this point04:00
sepenpitillo, no04:00
sepenpitillo, you can assing your own04:00
sepenbut not to others atm04:01
pitillohas not much sense open a ticket at FS and assign it to yourself... (it can be understood like a todo, but for me hasn't too much sense)04:01
juetilman: is a very minimal port I'm using for mathopd with fcgi04:05
sepentilman, could be possible to have 'assing' permissions (on FS:crux-contrib) for contrib members?04:07
tilmanactually i think contrib members should have +assign everywhere ;)04:07
sepennop, 'assign to me' its the only option I can do04:09
pitilloif you assing someone a task, is it notified to the maintainer?04:09
sepenyou can't assign tasks04:11
cruxbot[opt.git]: squid: update to 2.6.STABLE2004:11
cruxbot[opt.git]: fakeroot: update to 1.9.504:11
rxiwell i guess there wont be a resierfs v5 ...
pitillosepen, I can't, but the point isn't that. If someone who can do that assign a task to a maintainer, is a way to notify him or he miust read the FS directly? (I don't know if you see my point)04:11
tilmanyes, assignment results in a notification by email04:12
pitillo*assigns/ *is there a way /*must04:12
pitillotilman, thank you04:12
tilmanmy point is: we should fix this04:13
tilmanalso meeting material04:13
tilmanjue: what do you think?04:13
tilmanjue: i think we can trust contributers enough to not mess up the bugs :)04:13
pitillotilman, at least in the crux-contrib FS section (if contrib members must manage all related to contrib)04:14
sepenor atleast contrib ports04:15
juetilman: yes, sure04:15
juejust looked at FS, but I have no rights to change things in that area04:16
tilmanyeah, it's only simone i believe04:16
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pitilloSF arf arf04:25
treach"all your mirrors are belong to us" :>04:27
juesepen: ./configure: line 6669: /usr/sbin/apxs: No such file or directory ; configure: error: Aborting04:28
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sepenhmmm a momment04:29
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sepenyou need more deps04:30
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juesepen: sorry? you said that mod_php builds fine without apache installed, thats wrong obviously04:35
sepenIll try newly04:35
sepennot exactly, I mean that could be php instead of mod_php, however I like the actual state for mod_php (apache related module)04:37
sepenthe fact is that php can be ported in many and different ways04:38
pitilloteK, mercurial ports is using python at build time, can be added in deps or you prefer to keep out build dependencies?04:41
tilmanmercurial is a python program even04:44
tilmanso it's not just a build-time only dependency :p04:44
pitilloperfect then :)04:44
teKi'll fix this tonight, thx04:53
teKtonight is in about eight hours04:53
treachbtw, could someone give zsh a kick in the butt?04:53
pitillothanks for your work too04:53
teKi'd love to take over the ZSH port04:53
teKpitillo: you're absolute welcome ;)04:54
treachthere's a new version, the old doesn't download and viper is out of town I think.04:54
teKi'd love to take over the ZSH port <-04:54
teKZSH r0x0rs04:54
treach*I* am certainly not stopping you. ;)04:54
tilmanwhich one is the new version?04:54
tilmani'll handle that04:55
teKand I will have to mail viper about zshall(1) as it's not really zshall which sucks if you are looking for an expression which may occur in one of the countless zsh man pages04:56
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sepenmy own php5 port05:02
cruxbot[opt.git]: zsh: updated to
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pitillois there a timeline to move contrib ports to opt one day?06:04
* sepen .... little ball toucher ....06:08
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sepenpitillo, don't worry, someone will read irc log06:09
pitillorep ximonda06:09
sepenjau ximonda06:09
pitillosepen, no problem, I am trying to understand bit by bit06:09
ximondaHmm... I start to get used to IRC again. :-)06:09
sepenpitillo, maybe ML's can help us more about these questions06:11
tilmanthere's no plan to merge contrib and opt atm06:12
pitillotilman, but can you see my point about that question?06:12
sepen... only depedens on opt devels06:12
sepenand their required apps06:12
tilmanpitillo: no06:12
sepenpitillo, sure06:12
pitillotilman, I mean, for what is used opt? optional packages (wich means stable, well maintained, tested... no?)06:13
pitillotilman, then in crontrib you can find lot of very good ports, with very active members06:13
pitillothey can be moved to opt following that point of view (this is why I asked about, nothing more)06:14
sepennice opt port!!!! pfffff /usr/ports/opt/scummvm06:14
sepenI think there are a lot of contrib ports better than this one06:14
sepenor than others06:14
pitillosepen, if it's tested, well done and well maintained, I think it can be there without problems06:14
tilmanbadmouthing doesn't help.06:15
sepentilman, balltoucher06:15
tilmani don't even know what the hell that is supposed to mean06:15
pitillotilman, some kind of disturbers06:15
sepenIm condenated to be a disturber06:16
pitilloour words sound like that... like if we are disturbing here with aour comments or reports06:16
pitillodon't take it bad06:16
sepenno report == you are a good devel06:16
cptnonly complaints == you stop caring06:17
tilmani don't want all of contrib in opt06:17
pitillotilman, why?06:17
tilmaneg romster drives me up the wall at least every 2 weeks06:17
pitillo(in all I can understand that you mean what I said by well maintained/tested and more)06:17
tilmanand sometimes i really have problems understanding sepen06:17
sepentilman, due to my bad english could be06:17
tilmanwhen we asked for opt volunteers, none of the contrib'ers stepped up06:17
tilmanbut mayeb that's because you didn't get what we wanted ;P06:18
pitillotilman, yeah, for me sometimes is hard to understand and talk with him in spanish... in english is harder06:18
sepentilman, I maintain xfce too, I think I have enough work06:18
tilmanalso wtf is your point about opt/scummvm?06:18
pitillotilman, well, I asked this to understand what is opt, and the policies abouot its ports06:18
tilmanit works[tm]06:18
tilmanif there's a problem, i suggest you tell namenlos about it, so he can fix it06:19
pitillotilman, remove that sentence about that port06:19
sepentilman, who decides to put it in opt?06:19
tilmaninstead of going "pffff good port!! roflrof"06:19
tilmanmatt decided to put it in opt06:19
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sepenyeah, tilman excuse me06:19
tilmanbecause he thought "hey, scummvm is popular"06:19
pitillotilman, I think he means why is it there and there aren't another good contrib ports in opt06:19
tilman* popular06:19
tilman* well maintained in upstream06:19
tilman* works06:19
tilman-> candidate for opt06:19
sepentilman, there are a lot of popular ports in contrib06:20
cptnit also needs someone who maintains it06:20
cptncontrib is per definition user contributed06:20
tilmanwell, feel free to ask opt maintainers to move ports from contrib to opt06:20
cptnI'm sure ports have moved from contrib to opt occasionally06:20
pitillocptn, that's obvious (well maintained)06:20
cptnpitillo: well, a maintainer who's part of the CRUX team06:21
pitillocptn, that's my point, there are very good maintainers in contrib and some of their ports can be very interesting too06:21
sepenxD Im not a part of CRUX team06:21
cptnpitillo: yes06:21
sepenIm not a opt devel06:21
cptnpitillo: what is your point?06:21
cptnthey're hosted on, distributed to users06:21
pitillocptn, that's the problem, you are splitting the CRUX team06:21
cptnI'm not06:21
pitillowell, I think I can understand that from that sentence (may be I missunderstood it)06:22
tilman1.) users bitch that they cannot write to opt06:22
cptnwell, maybe, but I wouldn't know :-)06:22
pitillocptn, jajajaja06:22
tilman2.) offers contrib which is pretty much free-for-all06:22
tilman(it's easy to get access to contrib.git)06:22
cptnpitillo: when we started contrib, we wanted to allow maintainers to be more visible, without joining the CRUX team06:22
cptnpitillo: and because we were selective about the people that should be official developers06:23
cptnpitillo: plus it should be a testbed for maintainers06:23
pitillocptn, yeah, I understand that, but when a maintainer is working hard (with lot of ports, tested and well maintained) I think they can make a step ahead06:23
cptnpitillo: if they like the contrib work, they could/should apply to become maintainers06:23
cptnpitillo: yes06:23
pitillocptn, I see06:23
cptnwell, not only hard work06:23
cptnthey must fit the team06:24
cptnbut yeah, it is the idea to find opt (and core) maintainers this was06:24
tilman.oO(han, ott)06:24
cptnor rather was :-)06:24
* Rotwang awaits decision about his application :P06:24
pitillocptn, well, this only was a little question about how is CRUX working, don't take my question in a bad sense06:25
cptnpitillo: but as tilman said, no one of the contrib members applied when they were looking for opt people06:25
pitillotilman, do you mean I give you that remembers?06:25
tilmanRotwang: did you fix the "problems" that the others pointed out about your ports?06:25
pitillocptn, well, I am not trying to change anything, only asking about CRUX policies to see how it works06:25
tilmanpitillo: WHAT?06:26
sepentilman, I think not all Rotwang ports will be in contrib06:26
cptnpitillo: didn't you accuse me of splitting the crux team?06:26
pitillotilman, that thought you put s few lines up06:26
sepenabout Han or ott ...06:26
tilmanpitillo: i am *not* comparing you to han or ott06:26
tilmanif that's what you mean06:26
pitillocptn, well, your words made me think about that, like contrib members aren't in crux team06:26
tilmanhan and ott are two examples of hard-working people who do not fit the team IMO06:27
cptnpitillo: they're not IIRC06:27
cptnpitillo: contrib = USER contributed06:27
Rotwangtilman sepen id put only well tested and "good" ports in contrib06:27
Rotwangnot all of them06:27
tilmanhan worked his ass off (1000 ports or something), but he's insane :P06:27
cptnpitillo: they're part of the crux community06:27
sepenRomster, just I want to say06:27
cptnpitillo: but not of the dev team06:27
pitillocptn, that's true, not in dev team, but they are part of the comunity (and more when the time goes ahead and they are working well)06:27
sepencptn, how I need to be part of the team?06:28
sepencptn, more maintained ports? opt?06:28
pitillotilman, oki, I missunderstood that. Btw I feel that han's acctitude wasn't a good one to fit in a comunity06:28
cptnpitillo: yes, that's why contrib.rsync is even on the ISO; and the whole infrastructure is hosted by crux.nu06:28
cptnsepen: have you applied?06:28
cptnsepen: and were you rejected?06:28
cptnsorry, can't remember06:28
pitillopitillo, understood06:28
sepennot yet06:28
pitilloarf cptn , understood06:29
howlSo I take it the CD is bigger than it used to be, now. :)06:29
tilmanRotwang: i didn't really follow the process of your application and the reviewing of the other guys (because i'm not really in control of contrib, as it's community governed)06:29
pitillohowl, there aren't contrib ports and there aren't all opt ports in cd (aren't them, correct me if I am in wrong)06:29
tilmanRotwang: maybe you could mark the ports that you want to put in contrib and ask once again whether the others see any issues with those06:29
Rotwangtilman: k06:30
tilmanif there are no more problems, i'll create an account for you (since viper_ is on vacation)06:30
cptnsepen: one thing that would definitely help is if you'd work with others on contrib for example06:30
RotwangRomster already gave me positive opinion06:30
tilmanRotwang: i'm glad you applied fwiw :)06:30
howlpitillo, ok.06:30
cptnsepen: like Romster's mail on boost, which got no comments so far06:30
tilmanhowl: it's bigger, in part because of modular x :|06:30
sepencptn, I read the ML but I talk with Romster all days06:30
howltilman, I see.06:31
sepenRomster, and me and others are IRC users06:31
cptnsepen: one important thing to become part of the CRUX team (assuming it's still the same) is the ability to communicate, and to work with others06:31
tilmanwell, if he asked on the ML, you should reply on the ML, too :p06:31
sepenyeah, I don't have a good english for comunicate (ATM)06:31
pitillocptn, I think that point isn't only for the CRUX team...06:32
sepenIll try to get more knownledgements on this area06:32
tilman"as discussed on IRC, blahblah" eg :p06:32
cptnsepen: and I'm sorry to say that, but statement like the one on scummvm aren't really a recommendation06:32
sepentilman, you mean I don't use contrib ML?06:32
pitillosepen, the point is to use the same way to discuss things06:32
sepencptn, yeah, please excuse me and remove this comment06:33
cptnpitillo: well, it's important in all aspects of life06:33
tilmani think you should have replied to both rotwang and romster on the ML06:33
pitilloif someone use ML, try to follow the same way to let others see how it goes06:33
cptnpitillo: but one of the initial goals of contrib was to make no requirements in this area06:33
sepenIm according 100% to this, but I find problems when trying to speach in english06:33
pitillocptn, I see06:33
cptnpitillo: i.e. if you deliver good work (=ports), you should be allowed06:33
pitillocptn, but there are guidelines for contrib (it's some kind of rules to be in contrib)06:34
sepenwell time for eating something, sorry guys Ill return as soon as possible06:34
cptnsepen: if food is more important than #crux you're definitely not ready yet06:34
pitillocptn, good work for me is being active in all senses, helping maintaning, thinking, discussing, not only having tons of ports06:34
cptnsepen: just kidding ;-)06:35
pitillocptn, jajaja06:35
cptnpitillo: that's the optimal case06:35
sepencptn, now I stay at office, I have only 1hour for this06:35
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cptnsepen: don't worry, it was only a joke06:35
pitillocptn, that is the case in the case you want to enter a comunity/project06:35
pitillofrom my point of view06:35
cptnpitillo: yeah, if someone's unfriendly, he might not be admitted to contrib since there's the "2 advocate" view06:36
cptnbut some people just do good work on ports, but don't want to be involved in the project per se06:36
pitillowell, he will not be admitted in contrib, and here, and where he goes06:37
cptnpitillo: I'm just wondering though:06:37
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cptnI always though contrib members would be somewhat proud, since they're providing the official user ports collection...06:38
cptnis that not the case?06:38
pitillocptn, yes, and some of them are quite good(and used, and well maintained, and popular...) to be in opt for example06:39
pitillocptn, yes yes, I think they are because they go ahead with their work06:39
cptnbut what's your definition of 'opt' then?06:39
pitillocptn, that is what I am looking for, a good explanationa about how opt works06:39
pitilloby now I think opt is a repo (which fits the requirements) but can't be extended because contrib and opt seem to be close06:41
pitillothat is why I started this talk about opt and contrib06:41
pitilloand I am very happy to know your opinions about this, they gave me a bit more of knowledge to understad CRUX and I must been gratefull for this (for all who answered all my questions)06:42
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tilman(13:19) <@   tilman> * popular06:43
tilman(13:19) <@   tilman> * well maintained in upstream06:43
tilman(13:19) <@   tilman> * works06:43
tilman(13:19) <@   tilman> -> candidate for opt06:43
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tilmanpitillo: ^^^06:43
pitillotilman, I understood that06:43
cptn* willing maintainer with opt commit access :-)06:43
DarkNekroshi everybody ;)06:44
tilmanthough opt probably has a few ports that aren't considering popular by the majority of crux people06:44
cptnpitillo: I think I understand, yeah06:44
tilmanmaybe like opt/ctags06:44
tilmancptn: i think i don't. care to rephrase pitillo's point/question?06:44
cptnI think "relevant" might be better than popular :-)06:44
pitilloin my answer to cptn about what I think of opt, I wrote (wich fits the requeriments) I mean these you told me before06:44
cptnone of the things which seems pretty unfortunate is the term "contributor" on the About page06:45
cptnI like Archlinux' term "Trusted user", which kinda describes it nicely06:45
cptncontributor is rather vague06:46
cptntilman: well, since the contrib guys are part of the team as well (About page etc.), it's not clear what the difference is between a contrib guy, and an opt contributor06:47
cptnto him at least06:48
cptnor rather he looked at it more from a ports point of view06:48
cptni.e. port a should rather be in opt, port b in contrib06:48
pitillocontrib guy, new guy who wants to help (not trusted in that moment) and opt guy, trusted user...06:48
cptnthat would probably work too, it's just not the way it's done now06:49
cptncontrib = trusted user, portdb = new guy06:49
pitilloboth are working in a comunity... but I don't understand how a man working on contrib can jump to opt (and them some of his ports than can fit the requeriments)06:49
pitillocptn, good point06:50
pitillounderstanding things bit by bit06:51
tilmansorry, i'm somewhat busy06:52
pitillotilman, don't worry, thank you a lot for your comments.06:53
pitillohere it's time to take a bite too.. thank you for clarify my ideas :)06:55
cptnthanks for asking :-)06:55
cptnI guess there's a lot of things that could be described06:56
cptnI mean, documented somewhere06:56
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tilmanpitillo: to jump from contrib to opt the guy in question would just ask to be added to "THE TEAM" ;)07:01
treachtilman: could you give libpng a bump too? Same story as zsh, except that it's your headache rather than vipers. :P07:01
tilmantreach: the 1.2.27 tarbollen is busted07:01
tilmanalready filed a bug, hopefully they'll fix it RSN07:01
treachfigured, it wouldn't build here either..07:01
treachcould you fix the url meanwhile?07:02
treachman I wish I could understand why xorg doesn't want to play ball with alt-gr..07:04
tilmanis xorg-server uptodate?07:05
tilmandisabling dbus/hal fixed RyoS' issues07:05
tilmanbut apparently that's not it07:05
treachI don't even have hal installed..07:05
cruxbot[opt.git]: libpng: fixed URL.07:05
treachnor dbus07:06
treachOption          "XkbModel"      "pc105"07:07
RyoSproblem appeared again?07:07
treachOption          "XkbLayout"     "se"07:07
treachthat should be enough, right? right!?07:07
treachyeah, it's back.07:07
tilmanOption "XkbRules" "xorg"07:07
tilmandoes it work if you run "setxkbmap se" in a terminal?07:08
treachnot present. I'll try adding it.07:08
treachmaybe if I install it first. :p07:08
treachError loading new keyboard description07:09
treachthat's at least a bit more informing.07:09
ximondaHi guys...07:09
ximondaI just cannot access sourceforge... can some of you verify that?07:10
tilmanximonda: yes07:10
ximondanot even ping sourceforge.net07:10
ximondatilman: thanks.07:10
treachtilman: "sv"?07:11
tilmaninstead of "se"?07:11
ximondaI just tried to follow the opt<->contrib discussion we had so many times.07:11
tilmanwell, no. n-m07:11
ximondaWhat about writing down a checklist with a rating to have a measurable basis of a port for a decision where it goes into?07:12
treachdoesn't matter btw, setxkbmap complains about "error loading keyboard description", either way.07:13
tilmando you ahve xkeyboard-config?07:13
treachit's not even in the ports at all btw.07:14
tilmando you have xorg-xkbdata?07:14
tilmantilman@brimstone [~] > ports -l|grep xkeyboard-config07:14
tilmantilman@brimstone [~] >07:14
treachtank:~% depends  xorg-xkbdata07:15
treachThe package 'xorg-xkbdata' could not be found07:15
tilmani wondered whether you b0rked the upgrade07:16
tilman* you should not have xorg-xkbdata07:16
tilman* you should have xkeyboard-config07:16
treachI didn't bork any upgrade, it's a fresh install.. :P07:16
treachand xkeyboard-config is MIA too07:16
tilmancat /etc/ports/xorg.rsync07:17
treach/bin/sh: /etc/ports/xorg.rsync: Permission denied07:17
tilmandoes prt-get know about the "xorg" collection? (prtdir directive in prt-get.conf)07:18
tilman /usr/ports/xorg/xkeyboard-config exists, right?07:18
treachprt-get knows about xorg.07:18
treachand the answer to xkeyboard-config seems to be "NO"07:19
tilmani suppose you already ran 'ports -u xorg'?07:19
tilmanit does grab xkeyboard-config for me :x07:20
tilmanyou're running ports -u as root, right?07:21
treachmeh. my fault. It's there, I just erroneusly assumed it would start with "xorg-"07:21
* tilman rolls eyes slightly ;D07:21
treachand it's installed07:21
tilmandoes it work if you run "startx" as root?07:22
tilmanresp is /usr/bin/Xorg setuid root?07:22
tilmancan you try to reinstall xorg-server from ports?07:22
treachI can try.07:22
treachbb when I've tried it. ;)07:23
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treachnope, "(WW) Couldn't load XKB keymap, falling back to pre-XKB keymap"07:35
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pitillotreach, do you have xorg-xf86-input-evdev installed?07:36
pitillotilman, it's good to know about that (ask for join opt group or da team :P)07:37
pitillotreach, are you using it for something special?07:37
pitillotreach, try to remove it and test again (here I got problems with it)07:38
RyoSevdev is best driver evar :]07:38
treachRyoS: It has it's uses. :>07:38
pitilloRyoS, here I don't know why it causes I lost my keymap07:38
pitillo(may be because hal, but I am not sure about this)07:39
treachpitillo: sorry, no effect.07:40
pitillotreach, I am sorry too then (I think you restarted the server)07:40
pitilloI have no clue then07:41
treachhad to get screen for that before, that's why I left then.07:41
treachmmh, me neither.07:41
treachfrankly I have come a cross quite a few screwy problems lately, that doesn't happen with other distributions. :/07:42
treachs /a cross/across/07:42
pitilloummm but without same soft version, or were the same?07:42
* sepen now here07:43
treachwell, some there must be some differences, don't know which though. :/07:44
pitilloummm I readed about this keymap problem and it can be realted directly with xorg7.3, hal and evdev for example07:45
pitilloI think soft versions must cause these kind of problems (bleeding edge?)07:45
pitillobut working to fix them must be a good aim to go07:45
treachwell, I don't even have hal, and evdev doesn't seem to matter here.07:46
pitilloummm well, IMHO can be good comment that kind of problems here (or ML) to see if someone had the same issues or can help in any way07:47
treachseems like I've managed to bust startx in some way too. it starts up X but not the WM (says something about "audit rejected client 1 or something like that)07:48
treach"xinit" works though :/07:48
treachand no, I'm not using SE-linux. ;P07:49
pitillotreach, wich driver and wm are you using?07:59
pitillotreach, have you tried to rebuild nvidia driver?08:00
sepentreach, which is the nvidia chipset?08:01
thrice`and rebuild xorg-server ?08:02
pitilloummmm I readed some comments about it and re-installing the nvidia drivers solved in these cases08:02
treachsepen: 8500, but I doubt it has anything to do with my missing keys. :p08:02
treachthrice`: yes, tilman suggested it above,08:02
treachno change08:03
thrice`sorry, only had a chance to skim through08:03
thrice`(and seemed too obvious for you not to try)08:03
tilmancan you just run "X" (as opposed to startx)08:05
pitillo(ummm thinking in the rejected error from startx, the nvidia driver rebuilt and removing the Xautorithy from ~ were the comments related to it)08:05
tilmanand then run "DISPLAY=:0.0 setxkbmap se" on the console?08:05
pitillo(but seems that these comments have nothing to be with the keyb error)08:06
treachtilman: well, not sure what you mean, running "X" brings up the root window.08:12
treachbut I don't get any terminal or something like that then so I have no place to type that DISPLAY crap08:12
treach(unless you meant I should close X and type it in the console. :p )08:13
tilmantreach: no, just ctrl-alt-f2 to another terminal08:18
treachsmall problem. while X is running viritual consoles are inaccessible.08:19
teKdon't know what's your problem but you *may* want to check out chvt(1)08:21
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treachother than the the VESA driver, no.08:26
treach- 1x the08:26
pitillotilman, xD08:26
pitillotreach, can you upload Xserver log? to read a bit08:27
treachpitillo: not yet, I'll tell you when it's done08:30
pitilloummm with wgetpaste can't you?08:30
pitilloummm well, like I said nothing....08:31
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treachpitillo: I had to find the password for the site first. :p08:48
treachshould be what happens if I run startx08:49
cptn404 here08:50
pitillonot found on this server :(08:50
cptnah :-)08:50
cptntilman: what would be in for me?08:50
cptntilman: if I took over x maintenance?08:50
tilmanthe warm and fuzzy feeling when you've helped someone get XKB working08:51
treachtilman: thanks. :P08:51
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cptnsounds tempting for sure :-)08:51
j^2hey cptn :D08:52
thrice`would perhaps trying a newer xorg-server help out?08:52
treachmaybe I should just dump this, and start over. So many strange issues.08:52
thrice`ie, is this sort of thing known?08:52
treachor maybe I should just change to Ubuntu, since I'm apparently to stupid to sort this crap out.. :x08:53
cptnhey j^208:53
ximondaWhat's that now? Strange ping result: Bad Code: 10, see:
cptnximonda:  "communication with destination host08:55
cptnadministratively prohibited" by RFC 112208:55
cptn-> code 1008:55
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cptnthey probably detected that you've been pinging them for the last 2+ hours and got annoyed :-)08:55
ximondacptn: Well, and why does it respond sometimes correctly? Round Robin?08:56
treachtilman: btw, I tried ssh thing you suggested before while "X" is running.08:56
treach"cannot open display "default display"08:56
tilmanDISPLAY=:0.0 setxkbmap se08:57
cptnximonda: no idea, works for me08:58
ximondacptn: Ok, will retry later. Tnx.08:58
cptnwell, http works for me08:58
cptndo you really need to ping them?08:59
treachtilman: "error loading new keyboard description".09:00
ximondacptn: Not anymore :-)09:00
sepencptn, also my ftpup test work perfectly through httpup files09:01
tilmanls -l /usr/share/X11/xkb/compiled09:01
tilmanls -l /usr/share/X11xkb/xkbcomp09:01
sepencptn, httpup rocks09:02
treachlrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 12 Apr 30 05:44 /usr/share/X11/xkb/compiled -> /var/lib/xkb/09:02
treachls: cannot access /usr/share/X11xkb/xkbcomp: No such file or directory09:02
cptnneeds another slash09:02
tilmanls -l /usr/share/X11/xkb/xkbcomp09:02
treachlrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 16 Apr 30 05:44 /usr/share/X11/xkb/xkbcomp -> /usr/bin/xkbcomp09:03
cptntreach: does /var/lib/xkb/ exist?09:04
treachcontains "README.compiled" :)09:05
treachnothing else though.09:05
tilmanthat's normal09:05
tilmandoes "DISPLAY=:0.0 setxkbmap se -v10" give any useful output?09:08
treachnot really. "Error!   Option "-v10" not recognized!" :P09:09
tilman-v 1009:09
tilmancan you "strace -eopen X"?09:11
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treachmh, how do I redirect the output to a file, I don't remember. :/09:16
tilmanstrace -eopen -o /tmp/strace.log X09:17
treachsame as before, but "strace.log"09:19
tilman"DISPLAY=:0.0 setxkbmap se" again and see whether that results in another entry in the strace log09:20
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treachno error message this time though.09:23
pitilloI am lost here (I can only see a few errors about nvidia config, that can be solved. I can't do anything with straces logs)09:32
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tilmanvim /usr/bin/xkbcomp09:41
tilmanstrace -eopen /usr/bin/xkbcomp_real $@09:41
tilman+ shebang line09:41
tilmansomething like that should work, no? :p09:41
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treachwell, it doesn't work anyway. I just meant that the "error loading new keyboard..." was absent.09:49
tilman|google_hits("fucking xkb")| is only 2510 :o09:51
treachI hate to say it but atm it feels like "fucking crux", but I presume it's all my own fault, somehow.09:53
treachthe system won't even boot unless I put in "acpi=off", which only suse 10.3 has needed so far otherwise, and I have no idea why. :/09:54
treachafk, food09:55
ximondatreach: Well, what kernel do you use?10:16
ximondatreach: might be worth to test the latest one and doublecheck that xkb is happy with evdev + friends.10:16
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treachfor the record this is running on 2.6.2512:16
ximondaSo, Your machine with 2.6.25 has problems with acpi=on?12:17
ximondaWhat BIOS settings have you tried?12:18
treachit's either acpi=off, or disabling it in BIOS12:18
ximondaIMHO related to that is: Plug'nPlay OS Installed = yes (enabling acpi, too)12:18
ximondaplus Reset Configruation data = yes (once)12:19
treachwich is really weird, because I haven't had to mess with that with any other dist.12:19
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ximondawhich dist works with acpi=on?12:19
ximondaand which don't?12:19
treachopensuse 11 beta 1 works for instance, fedora, ubuntu. don't remember if there were others.12:20
ximondaI would check what's special with their kernels... regarding the acpi problem.12:21
ximondaor: ask in the lkml12:21
treachmaybe. I'm too tired to do something about things right now anyway.12:22
ximondait's all far away from xkb... but anyhow... I would take care about that first...12:22
treachyes, I know.12:22
treachIt was just an example of another odd problem that I've had with crux on this machine lately.12:23
ximondathen take the nv driver instead of the nvidia just for testing purposes.12:23
treachI've considered that, but it would be such a strange thing if that had any relevance to the problem12:24
ximondatreach: I've had several problems due to my kernel configuration...12:24
treachyeah. I'm pretty sure I've mucked around abit too much with something.12:24
treachit's just that I have no idea what setting could cause this.12:25
ximondaWell, kernel configuration is not trivial.12:25
treachthat's what I meant when I said I hadn't had this problem with other dists; What are they doing to get things working that I'm missing.12:26
treachI mean, it's not like I've never done this before. :/12:26
ximondathey have enough menpower to put patches and nails in every little thing to stay on the safe side.12:26
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treachAmen. :>12:27
ximondatreach: but where is the problem. You can just use an ubuntu-kernel to test...12:27
thrice`it's a pride thing :)12:28
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treachindeed. :)12:28
ximondaWell... plug and pray...12:28
ximondaIf you take it very serious, you can start from a working foreign system and install the crux stuff until it breaks...12:30
ximondajust to find the problem area.12:30
treachI fear *I* will be the one who breaks first. :p12:30
ximondatreach: that's also possible...12:31
treachI think I'll just have to go back and go through the kernel settings once more, utterly carefully. :/12:31
ximondatreach: What system do you have running?12:31
treachbut that won't help with the missing keys, I guess. :/12:32
ximondapost a dmesg + lspci and cat /proc/cpuinfo12:32
ximondamaybe i can help you.12:32
treachk, gimme a few.12:32
ximondayou can turn on input event debugging in the kernel... and see how fare the keycodes come up in your system.12:32
tilmantreach: ls -l /var/tmp ?12:33
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treachtilman: "total 0"12:35
tilmantreach: ls -dl /var/tmp ?12:35
treach:o) -> drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 1024 Apr 30 05:11 /var/tmp/12:36
tilmanshould we world-writable12:37
tilmantilman@brimstone [/var] > grep var/tmp /usr/ports/core/filesystem/.footprint12:37
tilmantilman@brimstone [/var] >12:37
tilmantreach: that might fix XKB12:37
sepenor symlink'ed to /tmp also world writable12:37
treachtilman: oh, ok, thanks. I'll try that shortly. Just have to wrap up the crap ximonda wanted. :P12:38
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treachtilman: thanks, now I can finally express what I'm £@¡${[}]\?~^! feeling about this crap! :P12:45
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treachximonda: I've put up the files the same place as before, called cpuinfo, lscpi and dmesg.12:46
treachtilman: I guess I got the permissions wrong on that dir when I had to juggle the stuff around because the harddrives weren't collaborating. :/12:47
treachsorry for causing you so much problems.12:47
tilmani should have thought of /var/tmp sooner12:49
tilmani'll create a fucking wiki page for xkb now12:49
treachgreat! :D12:49
tilmanso much for "fucking CRUX"12:50
tilmanIN YOUR FACE12:50
ximondatreach: please post that link again... don't see anything new on
treachyou got that wrong.12:50
ximondaI just followed your words...12:51
treachtilman: I wasn't blaming crux. I've said repeatedly that I was sure it was my own fault, somehow.12:51
ximondaand get a 404 now.12:51
ximondatreach: Maybe it's time to get some hours away from computers ;-)12:51
treachnot "blah" !12:52
treachblah was just a placeholder. :D12:52
ximondatreach: okay, not really a machine I can give you a kernel config easily... no chipsets like yours here in my army.12:53
treachas I said, I'll just have to go through it again.. sigh. :>12:55
ximondatreach: just to conclude up to now: Your copied your whole distro to a different harddisk, when the problems with XKB started?12:55
treachnot really.12:55
ximondatreach: When did it work?12:56
treachI just had to move /var and /usr around.12:56
treachnow. :)12:56
ximondaOkay... :-)12:56
ximondawe then should stop wasting time... shit happens once in a while.12:56
treachwhich leaves me with acpi crap and frequency scaling issues to sort out. :/12:57
treachyes, we should all just put down our compilers and use windows instead. ;)12:57
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tilmanshould do the trick qrt freq scaling12:59
treachI have them..12:59
ximondaif you run into acpi issues, I would start with a minimal kernel config...12:59
tilmanACPI_THERMAL ?13:00
ximondawithout frequency scaling and toys like thar.13:00
treachtilman: "y"13:00
tilmandid it work with .24?13:00
treachyes, it did in the past.13:01
treachI fucked up and lost my .config from back then though.13:01
ximondatreach: then you should know what you've changed ..13:01
treachI hate myself!13:01
tilmanwhat exactly doesn't work?13:01
ximondatreach: /proc/config13:01
tilmandoes dmesg say "ZIOMG! NOT WORKING"13:01
treachbzsh: no such file or directory: /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor13:02
tilmantreach: i could give you my config, i guess our systems are similar-ish13:02
tilman/sbin/modprobe powernow_k813:02
treachI don't have that as a module13:03
ximondatreach: disable any frequency scaling or fix that crap.13:03
treachximonda: working on it. ;)13:03
tilmanah, right13:03
tilmanximonda: ^ ;)13:07
ximondatilman: tnx.13:08
treachtilman: this scaling problem, could it be related to that I have to run with acpi=off for some reason?13:10
tilmanof course13:11
treachok. figured.13:11
treachmmh. Time for some strange configurations..13:11
treachbrb, hopefully13:12
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treachwhee. progress. :>13:23
treachnow it works with "noapic" and scaling works. :)13:23
tilmanyour board's BIOS probably has some knobs wrt apic/local apic/blabla apic13:24
tilmanmaybe try those?13:24
treachmmh, I just did.13:24
treachbut with crux I have to add the noapic switch; this behaviour is consistent with before.13:24
treachmaybe the other dists do some blacklisting or so which does this automatically?13:25
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Rotwangshoul i assume that everyone got vim installed?13:39
treachyes. vim is in core. :D13:40
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Rotwangi guess ishould if its in core13:40
treach"Those who ignore VIM do so at their own peril". That sounds like a good motto. :P13:40
RedShiftanyone know the show "most shocking"?13:41
RedShiftthat show is just pure humor, laughing with americans :D13:41
treachs with/at/ ? :>13:41
RedShiftyes, at13:42
RedShiftlaughing with american stupidity, priceless13:42
treachmeh, this sucks. my fvwm config is backed up on my laptop.... to which the power adapter gave up yesterday, and the battery is drained. :<13:46
treachthis has been a lousy week. :(13:46
thrice`what a perfect time to convert to openbox13:46
treachopenbox, openschucks..13:47
RedShiftcheck this13:47
treachdoes it stay up these days? ;)13:47
tilmanthe only thing my old box is talk to my laserjet13:48
tilmanthe new box' rtc is stable enough so that the problem doesn't show i guess ;)13:48
treachmmmh, xml config files or fvwm configfiles.. rock or hard place? :P13:51
jesse_treach: save yourself the hassle and put dwm into action.13:59
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treach_Note to self: When restoring configuration files from a remote backup, make sure you get the files for the system you're restoring, NOT some other system..14:18
treach_specially .Xauthority. startx works again. \o/14:19
cruxbot[contrib.git]: mercurial: added python as dependency14:20
teKthx again, pitillo14:20
pitilloteK, to you too for your work :)14:22
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treach_tilman: rofl, do you remember when you got pissed off by pidgin? (The text input area no longer being resizeable issue)14:28
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teKthis is just ridiculous14:29
jesse_"FOSS fosters co-operation" has been shattered just a bit more :p14:32
RyoSthis is nice :P14:32
jnengland77hehe I was just reading through the comments.14:32
treach_meh, asshats are everywhere.14:32
jesse_A lot of noise over a minor feature.14:33
treach_mmh, but the devil is in the details, they say. :P14:33
treach_and this "my way or the highway" attitude has gone way out of hand with anything related to gnome in any way shape or form IMO.14:34
RedShifttreach_: you hate/love gnome?14:35
treach_I liked it once. then the usability goons took over it. :/14:36
RedShiftI've been a long time gnome user, then I switched to KDE and never looked back14:36
RedShiftKDE is great DE14:37
RedShiftvery configurable14:37
RedShiftthere's not a feature I could miss14:37
teKperformance, unbloatness?14:37
treach_I know. I use kde a lot too. but not on crux. :p14:37
sepenxfce too :)14:37
RedShiftsomething as simple as assigning a keyboard shortcut too much for gnome14:37
treach_teK: that's bull14:37
RedShift"it would confuse the users"14:37
RedShiftthey think one checkbox and two buttons is the maximum of configurability that is needed14:38
RedShiftand keyboardability really, _really_ sucks in gnome14:38
RedShiftand in GTK in general14:38
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teKtreach_: hum?14:39
treach_kde isn't bloated, and it's not slow either.14:39
teKwell I will still not try using it with 400MHz, ok?14:39
treach_that's just gnome sockpuppet propaganda talking points.14:39
RedShiftit runs fast even on my pentium 3 500 Mhz with 256 MB of RAM14:39
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treach_teK: If you have 128MB ram or more it would probably work ok.14:40
treach_I wouldn't recommend building it on it though. :P14:40
teK256MB + AMD K6-3 400MHz14:40
RedShifthell my laptop with kde&archlinux (850 Mhz pentium 3 with 320 MB of RAM) beats a laptop with a pentium 4 and 1 Gb of RAM with gnome&archlinux in bootup time14:41
treach_it would probably run pretty well on that.14:41
RedShift(the pentium 4 runs at 2 Ghz or something)14:41
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ximondaOk, guys...16:06
ximondaI'll have to go.16:06
ximondahave a nice evening.16:06
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treach@seen predatorfreak16:15
clbtreach: predatorfreak was last seen in #crux 1 day, 13 hours, 34 minutes, and 57 seconds ago: <predatorfreak> 3:40AM :D16:15
Rotwangtilman: i followed your advice and sent mail to contrib ML16:15
treachmmh, mplayer needs a sligth kick in the butt too. :/16:15
tilmangreat :)16:15
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teK=======> ERROR: Md5sum mismatch found:16:56
teKMISSING   20bd03bc5d2b3b31817e98c0dfc54f97  zsh-lovers.116:56
teKNEW       e545cc32832bef6431a109b7678a592e  zsh-lovers.116:56
cruxbot[opt.git]: zsh: synced md5sum with current zsh-lovers.1.17:00
tilmanteK: fixed :)17:00
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tilmanpredatorfreak: hey. treach just reported that mplayer needs a version bump (i guess it currently gives 404)17:10
predatorfreaktilman: mm, I'll get right on that17:11
cruxbot[opt.git]: mplayer: Update to SVN revision 26454.17:17
predatorfreakFixed and tested :)17:17
sepenthanks predatorfreak17:32
predatorfreaksepen: It's supposed to be my job :D17:33
sepenohh when was reported?17:33
sepenI also add a ticket some hours ago17:33
sepenI'll closed it17:33
sepenI can't not enough permissions17:35
* tilman adds a todo about flyspray persmissinos17:36
sepen23:15 <treach> mmh, mplayer needs a sligth kick in the butt too. :/17:36
sepenI opened the task 30 April 2008, 21:18 GMT17:37
tilmannobody saw it17:45
tilmansepen: nobody meant to ignore your bug ;)17:45
sepenno no17:45
sepenthats my fail, I can't close it17:46
* predatorfreak closes17:46
predatorfreakClosed :D17:46
sepen[off-topic] Im building my second fx-pedal for guitar
sepenmy first one was a fuzz-face clone17:48
predatorfreakGonna turn into a rock star on us sepen?17:49
sepenopenbsd has their own cd's, we can do it too17:49
sepenI like these wood cases17:49
cruxbot[opt.git]: poppler: update to 0.8.217:52
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predatorfreaksepen: CRUX release songs? :D17:53
predatorfreak\o/ we can get tilman to sing on them.17:54
Rotwangode to crux17:54
predatorfreaktilman: Sure, you can do cookie monster vocals on all the songs17:55
nipuLsee tilman crux would run a lot better if we just made you do everything17:56
tilmani'll hit ctrl-a-d now17:57
tilmanwork, my minions!17:57
* tilman cracks the whip17:57
tilmanRotwang: if awesome depends on libconfuse, you should probably put libconfuse in contrib as well, btw17:57
tilmanoff for real17:58
Rotwangtilman: i know ;]17:58
Rotwangim aware of it17:58
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treach :)18:47
treachwell, I figured I could post the link now that it appears to have recovered. :)19:11
treachif nobody thinks it's horrible enough, I stumbled on this one in the process -> ;D19:11
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RomsterApr 30 21:17:14 <tilman>eg romster drives me up the wall at least every 2 weeks, nice use me as a example <_<21:11
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