IRC Logs for #crux Saturday, 2008-05-03

mwansa2.6.20.300:00
mwansaheh00:00
Romsterthat's kinda old.00:00
Romsterkeep away from 2.6.23 the rest should be fine i haven't used 2.6.25.x yet.00:01
mwansaah ohk00:01
Romsteri'm on 2.6.24.5 until something can be done with my nvidia issues.00:01
mwansasomething wrong with the driver ?00:01
Romsteryeah i can't use anything in the 169.xx series00:07
Romsterperforms a illigal operation i'm on 100.14.1900:07
Romsterand that 100.14.19 won't work on 2.6.25.x kernels00:07
Romsterand i havne't bothered to try and find a fix.00:08
Romsterhaven't*00:08
Romsteri'm on a Geforce 7600GS00:08
Romsterdidn't try beta drivers though.00:08
mwansamhh. ohk00:09
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rehabdollbeta works01:47
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Romsteryeah but for me... i'll have to try.01:49
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cruxbot[contrib.git]: qt4: 4.3.4 -> 4.4.002:03
cruxbot[contrib.git]: qt4: forgot to move the patch file version02:13
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cptngood morning03:51
predatorfreakcptn: Morning.03:53
cptnRomster: congrats on the qt4 update, however... are you aware that it's also in opt?03:55
predatorfreakcptn: Sip is kinda lacking on time, I think.03:55
cptnyeah, that's for sure03:56
predatorfreakcptn: and Romster has been maintaining qt4 for a lot longer... I don't even know WHY it's in opt.03:56
predatorfreakNothing in opt requires qt4.03:56
Romsterand out of date and never informed and i had my version in contrib before sip threw one in opt.03:56
Romsteroh and the one in opt is a copy of qt3 and i've altered a few things for qt4 to use cflags and stuff again that's altered slightly.03:56
Romsterbut if you want it out i'll put it in my private repo.03:57
cptnthose are all good arguments03:57
predatorfreakTBH, I think qt4 should be dropped from opt.03:57
Romsterjust the same as all the sdl_* ports got droped no warning and i depend on them.03:57
predatorfreakAs nothing uses it.03:57
cptnI was more hoping that there could be a solution to avoid the duplication03:57
cptnsince the contrib rules are pretty clear03:58
predatorfreakThe only ports using it are in contrib.03:58
cptnand if sip a) doesn't have time, and b) nothing in opt needs it maybe it could be dropped from opt03:58
Romsteri'd like a solution either the opt port gets updated and fixed with the changes i've found or opt qt4 be droped.03:58
predatorfreakSomeone should really contact sip over this stuff.03:58
cptnbut I saw no request in FS, so I asked03:58
Romsterah didn't i make a ticket for qt4 in opt.03:59
predatorfreakahh I lied03:59
predatorfreaklyx/Pkgfile:# Depends on: tetex, qt4, imagemagick03:59
cptnheh, I guess I'm to blame for that one :-)03:59
predatorfreakHowever, one application could easily be moved to contrib.03:59
predatorfreakNot to mention tetex needs to be replaced with texlive03:59
cptnif there's a voluteer to package texlive...03:59
Romsterhmm i'd gladly give qt4 away it's a huge arse long compile as predatorfreak knows when i said i started and ended.03:59
predatorfreakRomster: Like four hours? :D04:00
Romsteryeah something like that.04:00
Romsterthat contrib/qt4 sits with qt3 i'm gonna also try qt4 with qt3 compatability without qt3 port installed and see how that behaves with programs that use qt3.04:01
predatorfreakRomster: Breaks KDE.04:01
predatorfreakKDE needs "real qt3"04:01
Romsterhmm damn04:01
Romsternot kde4...04:01
predatorfreakKDE4 isn't adopted on CRUX yet.04:01
Romsterkde3 has it's own copy in there of kde3 anysays.04:01
predatorfreakHence the need to still provide qt3.04:01
Romsterso i can't stop qt4 from being along side qt3 yet.04:02
predatorfreakhmm what by the looks of it.04:03
predatorfreak4.3.X fixed the problems remaining with KDE3.04:03
Romsteri have a semi working kde4 not running but i've built nearly all the packages.04:03
predatorfreakAs Gentoo use it as their default.04:03
predatorfreakand they're still on KDE3.04:04
predatorfreakSo, presumably, that problem is solved now.04:04
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juemorning04:04
cptnhey jue04:04
Romsterhi jue04:04
cptnRomster: I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass here04:04
Romsteri know.04:05
Romsteryour just helping.04:05
Romsteri'm here to help also.04:05
cptnI'm just observing at the moment :-)04:05
jueoh, just read that a discussion about is going on04:05
Romstersip steped over me not asked me just did that.04:05
jueI've created a FS ticket04:05
cptnjue: maybe one of you guys could pull in the update for opt?04:05
Romsterto what resolution?04:06
jueIMHO qt4 should be an opt port04:06
Romsterwell the opt port should be updated.04:06
predatorfreakjue: For what?04:06
predatorfreaklyx?04:06
predatorfreakEverything else even outright DISABLES qt4 support in opt.04:06
juebecause it's a basic lib like gtk04:06
cptnmmm, also a KDE4 repo might not want to depend on contrib04:07
Romsterand stop it being a add on to qt3 now. but i'm gonna test a straight qt4 without qt3 installed and see if  anything breaks, as qt4 has qt3 compatibility. as i said not too long ago.04:07
predatorfreakjue: Unless qt4 is emulating qt3, we have qt3 in opt for the things requiring only qt.04:07
predatorfreakWhich are few-and-far between...04:07
juesorry, but I don't see the problem, what's wrong with opt/qt4?04:07
predatorfreakIf there's no depends, there's no reason to keep a library in the repo.04:07
predatorfreakjue: It's in there for one port and the current maintainer seems strapped for time.04:08
Romsterhttp://romster.dyndns.org:8080/linux/ports/crux/romster-kde/ messy and incomplete but i've made some progress.04:08
predatorfreakRomster: You need to enable qt3 compat BTW.04:08
Romsterqt4 has a qt3 compatability mode.04:08
predatorfreak-qt3support switch or someshit.04:08
cptnjue, predatorfreak: the point is that if one maintainer thinks it's worth to have it and opt, then it's his call04:08
cptnso if there's no one to maintain it right now, contrib might be fine04:09
Romsteryeah if i'm not installing it with qt3 on the system and moved directorys.04:09
cptnif someone can update it, there's no real reason to mive it04:09
cptn*move04:09
predatorfreakcptn: Well, I have nothing against sip maintaining it.04:09
predatorfreakBut, he does seem to be a bit preoccupied of late.04:09
Romstersip didn't even update it when a minor revision came out.04:09
predatorfreakThis isn't the first port of his that's gotten a tad out of date.04:09
Romsterviper and sip both need to go other there ports.04:09
predatorfreakOne of us should take the time to contact sip over this though.04:10
cptnmaybe there could be a system that one opt maintainer creates an updated port and send it to crux-devel for review04:10
cptnand if another maintainers signs it off, the update can be performed04:11
predatorfreakcptn: and what about people like Romster who aren't opt maintainers?04:11
predatorfreakPersonally, I do not have the time nor need to fiddle with qt4.04:11
predatorfreakand I'm not sure about the others...04:12
cptnwell, the submitted doesn't have to be an opt maintainer of course04:12
predatorfreakcptn: Well, I might suggest a separate list than crux-devel.04:12
predatorfreakcrux-bumps or something like that.04:12
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predatorfreaktreach: o/04:13
treach/o/04:13
predatorfreak\o\04:13
Romstermore like a contrib member can bump a opt port and submit it for review for those opt members that are getting out of date?04:13
Romsterhi treach04:13
treachhi04:13
predatorfreaktreach: is /o/ a running man version now? :D04:13
treachnot that I know04:14
predatorfreaktreach: Well it looks like a guy running with his hands in the air :P04:14
treachhaha04:14
Romsterhay like that it looks like a star wars fighter ship04:14
Romsterhey*04:14
predatorfreakLOL.04:15
predatorfreaktreach: You're attacking me with a Tai Fighter, aren't you!04:15
Romsterkinda04:15
predatorfreak|o|04:15
treachpredatorfreak: actually it was more corporate04:15
treachit was called "Tie-fighter" :>04:15
predatorfreakRomster: Tie Fighter.04:15
Romsterah04:15
predatorfreaktreach: Whatever :D04:15
treachthe "Thai-fighter" model could have been more interesting though :S04:16
treachstep out and beat the shit out of your opponent :D04:16
predatorfreakHehe04:17
cptnRomster: back to qt4 and why I brought it up:04:19
cptnsomeone here recently complained about contrib not being accepted as a 1st class ports collection04:20
cptnI think it's issues like this that help users get this impression04:20
predatorfreakWasn't that sepen? o.O04:20
cptnprobably04:20
cptnor pitillo04:20
cptnsorry guys, I tend to forget which one says what :-)04:20
predatorfreakOne of those two :D04:20
cptnso maybe we'll have to look for better ways to resolve this in the future04:21
cptnI can see that assigning a bug to sip/mailing him might not have helped here04:21
cptnso maybe a new approach is needed04:21
cptnin the end, this might be more satisfying both for you and the dev guys04:21
predatorfreakcptn: Personally, I think we need both a new approach and to let Romster handle some ports in opt.04:22
predatorfreakHe's proved himself a solid, reliable maintainer.04:22
cptnpredatorfreak: well, you're in opt, I'm not04:22
predatorfreakHell he's probably better than me <<04:22
cptnbut he has a record of doing things differently04:23
cptnwhich IMHO don't work for opt04:23
cptnlook at contrib/gcj stuff for example, which mimiks use flags04:23
predatorfreakcptn: I have a record of wanting to do things differently myself at this point <<04:23
Romsteri've had qt4 for longer in contrib then sip added a copy in opt later if you look at the git logs for both you'll see the commit dates, and since no one at all said a thing not even sip!04:23
Romstertilman said something but did not contact me about it04:23
cptnRomster: look, it's certainly not your fault alone04:24
predatorfreakcptn: What mimics USE flags there?04:24
Romsteri might be to blame for not removing it later but opt is older.04:24
cptnRomster: but if I see this correctly both your port and sips are adapted from mine04:24
predatorfreakI see some stuff that should probably be moved to a post-install script04:24
predatorfreakBut that's about it.04:24
cptnpredatorfreak: build() behaves differently depending on the set of installed ports04:25
predatorfreakcptn: That's what I mean by stuff that should be moved :D04:25
predatorfreakcptn: That's hardly USE flags though ;)04:25
predatorfreakI should know, I've messed with Gentoo in the past on a multitude of levels.04:25
cptnpredatorfreak: or check the distcc detection in contrib/qt404:25
Romsteri've adapted qt4 from qt3 but if you look at my qt4 and sips qt4 there are differences i've spent hours perfecting it sip banged his to gather from qt3 and didn't do any fine tuning and testing.04:26
cptnpredatorfreak: yes your're right04:26
predatorfreakcptn: The distcc stuff in qt4 is because distcc outright breaks qt4.04:26
predatorfreakSo it makes sense, to a certain extent.04:26
Romsterif the user has no distcc no action is taken.04:27
Romsterthat's how i've designed it.04:27
Romsterif the person has distcc it disables it.04:27
juepredatorfreak: it would make sense if all CRUX ports are designed to work with distcc04:28
cptnyeah, I guess that's the point04:28
predatorfreakcptn: Sometimes, I'll admit, Romster is a bit zealous in adopting what he thinks is "right".04:28
cptnRomster added lots of features to his ports04:28
Romsterjue, I totally agree and that's what i have been aiming for.04:28
cptnwithout ever publishing or discussion it04:28
predatorfreakcptn: But on the whole, he's a good maintainer.04:28
Romsterand some i've had to remove from being bitched at.04:28
cptnthat's fine for private ports, probably bad for the reputation of contrib, and certainly no recommendation to join a team04:29
predatorfreakThe only reason people don't bitch too much about me is because I try to get my changes through the "official" way.04:29
cptnpredatorfreak: that's the criterion for "contrib"04:29
Romsteri like to test new ideas and theory's and i don't put half baked ports in the public view only in my private repo.04:29
cptnpredatorfreak: the one for opt used to be "can work in a team too"04:29
predatorfreakWhich takes a bloody lifetime and more than one of my things has been shot down.04:29
predatorfreakNone of which pleases me much, but I do it anyway <<04:30
Romsteri do things the wrong way so it seems.04:30
Romsterso i get marked as bad or something.04:30
cptnRomster: you're just a fan of new features04:30
Romsterand the feeling i get is that i'm only accepted as i maintain a lot and i do a decent job of it.04:31
Romstermaybe so.04:31
treachand sometimes a bit too argumentative, maybe.04:31
cptneach may be simple on its own, and the sum would turn CRUX into something non-simple04:31
Romsterbut are they insane features or practical?04:31
cptnyou know, they make a Pkgfile insanely hard to read04:32
predatorfreakcptn: Trust me.04:32
Romstertreach, i'm trying to tone myself down and try and fit in better.04:32
predatorfreakEven the worst Pkgfile I have seen is NOTHING compared to an ebuild...04:32
treachRomster: yes, I've noticed.04:32
cptnto me, it seems you're working towards ports which automatically tweak themselves04:32
Romsteri admit i got a out of had with my moods but i'm dealing with them.04:32
cptnso the user newer has to touch them again04:33
predatorfreakcptn: Look at Gentoo's mplayer ebuild and compare it to the absolute most giant Pkgfile ever.04:33
cptnpredatorfreak: gentoo is made for that04:33
cptnpredatorfreak: so it's at least easier to understand04:33
predatorfreakcptn: ... not on your life.04:33
Romsteri don't want anyone afraid to even ask me a question in fear i'd bite at them.04:33
treachRomster: from where I'm sitting you seem to have improved quite a bit, and I don't think it's fair to hold past transgressions agains someone forever either.04:33
predatorfreakReading the mplayer ebuild is like reading a foreign language <<04:33
predatorfreakIt's HUGE and fucking confusing.04:33
cptnRomster: originally, we said "let's make the Pkgfiles simple so users can modify them easily"04:34
Romsterpredatorfreak, look at rotwangs openoffice that's the worse Pkgfile i've ever seen.04:34
cptnthis implies that you sometimes _have_ to modify them04:34
cptnbut that was the whole point04:34
Romsterhmm maybe i've gone somewhat mad on the Pkgfiles..04:34
predatorfreakcptn: Honestly, I could still modify Romster's qt4/gcj Pkgfiles.04:35
predatorfreakcptn: Given the core CRUX audience, with a few comments, understanding those is nothing.04:35
cptnpredatorfreak: where does simplicity end?04:35
Romsteri try to keep my ports clean.04:35
cptnI mean, adding random features is okay, where do you draw the boundary?04:35
Romsterthis is for experienced users not newbies too, anyone that can compile stuff shouldn't have issues.04:36
predatorfreakcptn: When it isn't absolutely necessary.04:36
predatorfreakSomething which could be put in a README file or a post-install script.04:36
cptnhah04:36
Romstercptn, when they become annoying and not worth the effort to do.04:36
treachwell. disable distcc could go into a readme04:36
Romsterpoint out what i should change but this is also ment to be about qt4 no?04:37
predatorfreakcptn: As I said, I think Romster's gcj distcc/ccache bits should be moved to a post-install script.04:37
Romsterhmmz04:37
Romsternever really thought of that.04:37
predatorfreakThey're not required to build and will function fine in a post-install script.04:37
predatorfreakAccomplishing the same thing.04:37
Romstertrue.04:37
jueRomster: for me your distcc/ccache stuff is just annoying04:37
Romster:/04:37
Romsterwell email me improvements i don't see anyone giving me feed back04:38
cptnjue: that's maybe a bit of a harsh way to say it, isn't it?04:38
tilmansit in the sun and drink coffee or read another close-to-flamefest on #crux04:38
predatorfreakjue: Some of us actually use ccache/distcc you know..04:38
* tilman ponders04:38
Romsterand i've been using it for a long time and it works.04:38
predatorfreaktilman: s/coffee/tea/04:38
predatorfreak:D04:38
jueno, it's my personal thought about that but not meannt to be an personal attack04:39
predatorfreakLet's get a REAL flamefest going.04:39
Romsteri'm being tame and i'm gonna make a coffee too so brb.04:39
Romsterjue, email me a diff or comments on ports, that goes with the rest of you give me feed back i'm always open to improvements.04:39
Romsternow brb04:40
predatorfreakRomster: It's not my job to pick apart your ports! :D04:40
Romsteroh and i spend hours if not days doing all this too...04:40
jueRomster: you know what I mean04:40
Romsterjue, not exactly, what part of it is anoying?04:41
Romsternow brb for real.04:41
jueas I said, the distcc/ccache tweaks04:41
Romsterthere.04:44
cptnokay04:44
predatorfreakjue: on an unrelated note, I would like to know what you have against SHA256 in pkgmk.04:44
Romsterok i'll move them symlink files to a post-install file.04:44
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Romsterfor distcc/ccache04:44
predatorfreakRomster: Don't forget a post-remove as well.04:44
Romsterthat works for me.04:44
juepredatorfreak: nothing04:44
Romsteryes i'm well aware for post-remove too.04:45
predatorfreakjue: You're the one who went up against my sha256 patch, so I'd assume you have some reason to do so.04:45
Romsterthat would solve that issue for everyone if someone said this sooner i would of done this sooner.04:45
juethe question is how and when we implement it04:45
predatorfreakjue: I've already offered to do any implementation required for CRUX.04:46
predatorfreakjue: and I believe it can't go in fast enough.04:46
Romsteri'd really like pgp and sh256sum as a fall back and depreciate md5sum04:46
predatorfreakThe sooner md5 is obsoleted, the better.04:46
Romstersha256sum*04:46
predatorfreakRomster: I've also agreed with tilman that I'm willing to do a gpg implementation should the desire arise.04:47
juepredatorfreak: I don't see any time pressure here.04:47
kamikazzeHello, atm i|m trying to install wlan(ath) on my crux, madwifi installed, now i tryed to set the countrycode via modprobe but, modprobe doesnt find ath_pci. Needs ath_pci to be activated somewhere?04:47
tilmanRomster: i find it unbelievable that you put qt4 in contrib, too. you've around long enough to know that contrib IS NOT SUPPOSED to have duplicates04:47
predatorfreaktilman: He had it in contrib before it was in opt.04:48
tilmanso what04:48
treachkamikazze: did you reboot, or run depmod?04:48
predatorfreakIt was sip who put it in opt without confirming with romster about removing it from contrib.04:48
predatorfreakjue: I do, MD5 is defeated and broken.04:48
Romstertilman, excuse me look up the damn dates of the commit when i added qt4 and when sip put in qt4 in opt before accusing me.04:48
kamikazzeoh, damn. thank you :p04:49
treach:)04:49
Romsterdepmod -a04:49
Romstermodprobe ...04:49
Romsterand add that module to /etc/rc.modules for the next time you reboot.04:49
predatorfreakkamikazze: BTW, you kinda caught us in the middle of a flamewar, so, dawn your flame retardant suit :D04:50
tilmanRomster: you didn't remove it in between?04:50
cptnRomster: what's confusing me though, you mentioned that sip's port is not optimized at all04:50
kamikazzehrhr04:50
cptnRomster: how do you know that if you weren't aware of the opt port?04:50
juebbl04:51
Romsterno one told me anything so i felt it was my right to not remove it since sip was in the wrong and the fact sip has got slack on updates but the major point was i was mad at not being informed and the fact sip's qt4 port is lacking some changes to use system CFLAGS where i spent hours compiling qt4 and perfecting it.04:51
Romsterdoes that mean nothing around here.04:52
Romsterwaste my time and have someone else step over me and not inform me...04:52
Romsterthen i get accused.04:52
cptnhttp://crux.nu/Main/ContribRules04:52
cptnRules:04:52
cptn# No duplicates: resolve conflicts with other maintainers. Note that this includes duplicates of ports in contrib as well as in the other official CRUX repositories.04:52
Romsteri would never add a port knowingly knowing it's in opt or core.04:53
treachcptn: wait a moment, if sip added his port post the one in contrib, it's not fair to go after romster04:53
Romsterwhere is sip so this can be resolved.04:53
predatorfreakcptn: As far as I'm concerned, we should add an OptRules page.04:53
cptntreach: well, if he kept it after he realized it was in opt04:53
Romsterlook at the dates i had my port in contrib before sip added his in opt.04:53
predatorfreakcptn: I.E. not taking of ports from contrib/etc without confirmation.04:53
cptntreach: and made improvements which he kept in his port, since "sip was at fault", that's silly04:54
treachwell. I still think sip could have contacted him or something.04:54
tilmanyeah, he should04:54
Romsterwhich sip never did04:54
cptnpredatorfreak: he didn't take it from contrib, but from my httpup04:54
cptnwell, here's another timeline:04:54
predatorfreakcptn: Close enough.04:54
cptnapril 2007: qt4 is in contrib and in my repo04:54
Romsterand on top if it sip later dropped or was it before i can't remember but anyways sip dropped the sdl_* ports that i depend on with no warning also.04:54
cptnthe one in contrib is from sepen04:54
predatorfreakIf it exists in contrib and there's a good maintainer there, someone should confirm it.04:55
cptnI discuss with sepen, and he agrees to drop the contrib port04:55
cptnthen, I ask sip to update lyx which depends on qt404:55
cptnhe pulls in my qt4 port04:55
cptnapparently without checking contrib04:55
cptnthat was in august 200704:55
cptnapparently, Romster added his qt4 port between sepen removed his and sip added his to opt04:56
cptnbut that was certainly no ill will from sip04:56
predatorfreakcptn: Again, I personally think that qt4 and lyx should be moved to contrib.04:57
treachwell, just bulldozering anything in contrib isn't that great either, ill will or not. I don't think Romster's keeping qt4 in contrib could be described as malicious either..04:57
cptn2007-10-24 qt4: new port04:57
Romsteri got anoyed so i kept the port...04:57
predatorfreakOne app does not mean we should have qt4 in opt, nor does lyx technically need qt4.04:58
predatorfreakThere's other interfaces04:58
Romsteras i spent a lot of time i didn't just copy qt3 and not edit it properly like sip did.04:58
cptnoh, sip only imported it in 200804:58
Romsteri went though the source.04:58
treachRomster: lesson, don't get passive-agressive if you see something. you could have dropped sip a mail or something when you noticed.04:58
tilmanwho knows who uses qt4 for his own projects that aren't in ports04:58
tilmanhaving both popular toolkits in opt sounds great to me04:58
Romstertreach, all that was well before sip did his stuff.04:59
Romsteri had no piror warning or i wouldn't of bothered.04:59
cptnRomster: do you say you didn't look at any other qt4 port?04:59
tilmanRomster: if something like this happens again, please either email the other party asking for clarification or bitch at me04:59
predatorfreaktilman: By the same extension they can have in their own personal repo or contrib.04:59
Romstermine looked like qt3 before i edit it.04:59
Romsterfrom opt04:59
Romsterand spent countless hours fine tuning it.05:00
cptnstrange05:00
Romsterthat bitch takes ages to build.05:00
treachRomster: just calm down, and read what I and tilman said.05:00
cptnhttp://crux.nu/gitweb/?p=ports/contrib.git;a=commit;h=98dc0f104914845790d29cd185f3ca7952a2b88b05:00
cptnthe initial README of your port is exactly like my qt4's README05:00
Romsteri'm fine i just want a resolution but it might be i keep my work in my personal repo because sip can't keep his stuff upto date.05:00
treachthis whole discussion could have been avoided if you had just mailed sip and said something like "Hey, I already have a better port for qt4 in contrib, what's the great idea?"05:01
tilmanpredatorfreak: "everyone" has easy access to opt ports. contrib is a little bit harder. opt is trusted more. so if somebody wants to put a port in opt that's potentially quite useful to the puyblic, then it should go in opt05:01
Romsterhmmz... so the blame is on me again..05:01
predatorfreaktilman: Irk, but my thing is.05:01
treachNO, sip could have looked in contrib and contacted you, but he didn't, so that's not an option05:01
predatorfreakqt4 is freaking large, takes forever to build and is a bitch to maintain.05:01
cptnpredatorfreak: now that's something I can agree with05:02
tilmanpredatorfreak: yes, that's why it's cool to share it05:02
predatorfreakIf ONLY one application in opt uses it and it's plain obvious to me sip is strapped for time.05:02
tilmani once ported qt3 (or was it even qt4?)05:02
predatorfreakWhy can't it be handed off to Romster?05:02
treachRomster: I'm not trying to assign blame, I'm just telling you how things could have worked out a lot better.05:02
tilmanto fix an xorg bug05:02
predatorfreakand lyx either sip can move to contrib or someone else can pick up in contrib.05:02
cptnpredatorfreak: look, that's just not how crux works05:03
predatorfreakPlus we should still replace tetex with texline.05:03
predatorfreaktexlive*05:03
cptnpredatorfreak: if a maintainer decides that a port belongs to opt, it can go there05:03
cptnit's a moot point ot discuss really05:03
tilmansigh05:03
tilmanffs05:03
tilmanhello05:03
tilmanFFS05:03
predatorfreakBlarg, why don't we just merge opt and contrib then <<05:03
tilmananyone who wants to port texlive is very welcome to do it05:04
Romsterhi tilman05:04
treachtilman: you're on everyones ignorelist right now, just chill. :D05:04
tilmanno argument there05:04
predatorfreakThey serve the same function with different maintainers.05:04
cptnpredatorfreak: opt = team player, contrib = good maintainers05:04
tilmanoookay?05:04
Romstertilman, i've been thinking not sure how hard it would be being so large.05:04
tilmanand yes, i would put texlive in opt05:04
predatorfreaktilman: Give me five minutes or so and I'll port texlive even though I don't use tetex <<05:04
tilmanbecause i think having latex in opt is important05:04
tilmanpredatorfreak: LBAHBLAHBLAH, 5 minutes my ass05:04
predatorfreaktilman: texlive is just a continuation of tetex.05:05
Romsterso if i made texlive i would have to get opt access then <<05:05
predatorfreakIt should be a fast hackjob of the tetex port.05:05
cptngo ahead05:05
tilmanRomster: no?05:05
Romsterpredatorfreak, had that thought.05:05
Romsterfigures see hostile.05:05
tilman(12:04) <@     cptn> predatorfreak: opt = team player, contrib = good  maintainers05:05
tilmani can paste that again if necessary :D05:05
Romsteryour loss not mine.05:06
predatorfreaktilman: At this rate I'm not even going to be able to maintain stuff for CRUX and maintain my sanity <<05:06
Romsternow if this discussion is not gonna go any were i have better things to be doing.05:06
tilmanpredatorfreak: yeah, me neither05:07
predatorfreakoh what the hell.05:09
treachRomster: unless anyone else objects, I think you should really think over what I and tilman said.05:09
predatorfreaktexlive distributes their shit as a god-damn ISO.05:09
treachRomster: that way you might get something positive out of it.05:09
predatorfreakWTF?05:09
tilmanpredatorfreak: my point, it's not that easy :)05:09
tilmanpredatorfreak: but seriously, anyone who ports texlive will be loved for at least a month ;p05:10
predatorfreaktilman: Who the fuck distributes shit as a god-damn ISO...05:10
jesse_predatorfreak: tex, duh.05:10
jesse_:D05:10
Romsterso what is the resolution i be t it's me to drop qt4 and fuck all my hard work for sips out of date rarely updated port sure...05:10
sepencptn, is this link (or ideas contained inside) available from another location? http://www.varlock.com/projects/cruxxl.html05:10
jesse_tetex was not a piece of cake, but it at least was not a complete mess as texlive has become.05:10
treachRomster: no, that's not at all what we said.05:11
jesse_Which probably is one big reason as to why it has not been ported.05:11
cptnsepen: http://web.archive.org/web/20030416050606/http://www.varlock.com/projects/cruxxl.html05:11
treachRomster: you should stop take everything like everyone is out to get you. we are not.05:11
Romstersorry..05:11
Romsteri've even been trying to get my moods under control as you can see but this is pushing it.05:12
sepencptn, many thanks, I found those links very interesting05:12
cptnsepen: it was a different time though, so keep this in mind :-)05:12
cptnsepen: I remember I didn't like sip at all back then05:12
sepenyeah05:12
Romsterwant em to drop it i will want me to put it in opt i can't tilman wont have a bar of soap with it.05:13
cptnsepen: but that changed, obviously :-)05:13
predatorfreakoh my god there's like fifty different packages for texlive in SUSE <<05:13
sepenhhhehe05:13
tilmanRomster: what?05:13
Romsterif sip wants to give the opt version away maybe.. since sip doesn't have time to update it.05:13
Romstertilman, it's a phrase.05:13
Romster"wouldn't have a bar of soap" = would not do that if that was the last thing in the world.05:14
predatorfreakLet's see what Fedora have for texlive ports...05:14
treachRomster: I strongly suggest you fire off a _friendly_ mail to sip, and try to work things out. I think he honestly just missed your port in contrib, and wasn't trying to deliberatly bulldozer you.05:14
Romstercontact sip see what sip says...05:14
predatorfreakwell, SRPMs, whatever05:15
predatorfreakMY GOD IT'S SANELY PACKAGED O.O05:15
Romsteroki'll fire a friendly email off to sip.05:15
sepenIll remember this other http://lists.crux.nu/pipermail/crux/2003-March/000045.html for future people asking for kernel ports :)05:15
predatorfreakBy Fedora...05:15
predatorfreakA fucking miracle.05:15
Romsterpredatorfreak, O_o05:15
Romsterurl05:15
predatorfreakhttp://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/development/source/SRPMS/texlive-2007-28.fc9.src.rpm05:15
predatorfreakand05:15
predatorfreakhttp://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/development/source/SRPMS/texlive-texmf-2007-20.fc9.src.rpm05:15
sepenusing fedora at office, I don't like it05:15
predatorfreakTwo primary packages.05:16
Romsterah05:16
predatorfreakRather than god-damn fifty.05:16
Romsterdoable then.05:16
sepen.spec files are so big05:16
predatorfreakor as Gentoo did it.05:16
cruxbot[opt.git]: libdevmapper: updated to 1.02.25.05:16
predatorfreakFIVE BILLION FUCKING MICRO-EBUILDS <<05:16
sepenbut I loke %patch section from .spec files05:16
Romsteromfg libdevmapper got updated.05:16
sepen*like05:16
Romsterthere is a ticket in flyspray.05:16
tilmanorly05:16
Romsteryes really. along with others that still are not assigned :P05:17
cptnI see none for qt405:17
Romsteranyways i'll email sip, i think qt4 discussion is over untill we get word from sip.05:17
predatorfreakftp://ftp.ascii.co.jp/pub/TeX/ascii-ptex/tetex/05:17
predatorfreakIdiots distribute with a liveCD.05:18
predatorfreakBut use that <<05:18
Romstercptn, i thought i added one or i might of been too pissed off to care at the time.05:18
tilmanpredatorfreak: so fedora uses that 1GB iso as the source?05:18
predatorfreaktilman: No.05:18
predatorfreakThey download from ftp://ftp.ascii.co.jp/pub/TeX/ascii-ptex/tetex/05:18
predatorfreakWhich is the underlying tetex bits.05:18
tilmanah, good05:18
Romsterneat.05:18
Romsterthat's some sanity.05:19
cruxbot[opt.git]: directfb: removed.05:19
RomsterOMG05:19
Romsteri use that port.05:19
Romsterwhere is the bloody warning.05:20
tilmani think i misused the 'dependent' command again05:20
tilmanteK: would you like to maintain directfb?05:20
tilmani hope nobody fetched opt yet :P05:21
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sepen""The day I'm opening up the door to base and opt I will of course invite people I trust, people I feel share my vision of what a Linux distribution should look like. This05:22
sepenprobably means that they too are somewhat resistant to turning CRUX into a different animal.""05:22
treachapropos nothing.. anyone familiar with a way to deal with .obt themes without some extra tools?05:22
tilmanopenbox themes?05:22
treachyes05:22
tilmanthey probably are gzipped tarballs05:22
treachah.05:22
predatorfreakor not, upon further readerating of the spec it seems they roll a tarball themselves <<05:23
predatorfreakNote to self: KILL TEXLIVE PEOPLE05:23
treachtilman: nice, thanks.05:23
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Romsterdosbox uses directfb05:24
Romsterso drop directfb you should drop dosbox too.05:25
tilmantilman@brimstone [~] > ldd /usr/bin/dosbox|grep -i direc05:25
tilmantilman@brimstone [~] >05:25
Romsterdon't think dosbox compiles without i'l check.05:25
tilmantilman@brimstone [~] > pkginfo -i|grep dosbox05:25
tilmandosbox 0.72-105:25
tilmantilman@brimstone [~] >05:25
tilmantilman@brimstone [~] > pkginfo -i|grep directf05:25
tilmantilman@brimstone [~] >05:25
jesse_I have dosbox 0.72-1 installed here and it does not require directfb.05:26
jesse_directfb is not installed, just to clarify. ;)05:27
Romsterhmm i guess it's optional then.05:27
Romsteri have it listed with finddeps05:27
Romsterhttp://rafb.net/p/flHWok32.html05:28
tilmanthat's the deps for dosbox/05:28
tilman?05:28
Romsteryes05:28
jesse_finddepds dosbox = directfb is not listed on this laptop.05:28
Romsterwell what finddeps picks up.05:28
Romsterfor dosbox.05:28
tilmanmost of that is optional05:29
Romsteri guess it's optional..05:29
predatorfreaktilman: I'm going to require payment in oil for tackling this thingiemabob :D05:29
tilmanpredatorfreak: yeah, i know. don't bother if you don't even use it yourself ;)05:29
predatorfreakI'll take one for the team05:30
predatorfreakI managed to track down the texlive folks source tarball.05:31
predatorfreakBut now I need to figure out where the crap they keep the other stuff.05:31
Romstergood luck.05:32
* predatorfreak is picking apart Fedora's rpms <<05:32
Romstersounds like fun05:32
tilmanjue: should #218 be closed? :)05:32
jesse_It is very surprising that (la)tex has more or less been tossed aside and put into a very unusual distribution system. :/05:33
predatorfreaktilman: My only question would be "Is there anything particularly wrong with just using tetex?" :D05:34
predatorfreakBesides the fact it's unmaintained05:34
tilmannope05:34
tilmanerr, oops05:34
tilmanthere's some security issues05:34
tilmanbut since nobody uses tex on a server etc i don't care a lot05:34
* treach watches predatorfreak double the speed05:34
predatorfreaktilman: I bet we could cull patches from somewhere for those problems.05:34
treachbut there are none.05:35
predatorfreaktreach: You've never looked in Fedora SRPMs, have you? :)05:35
treachit's umaintained, remember? And everyone else seems to be jumping for texlive05:35
jesse_treach: didn't you mention debian had released a few security patches for tetex?05:35
predatorfreakYou'd be amazed the fucking crazy shit in those things.05:35
jesse_Several months earlier.05:35
treachjesse_: not that I remember, maybe they did,05:35
Romsternot as crazy as you predatorfreak <<05:36
predatorfreakRomster: True, but still crazy05:36
treachjesse_: seems likely though, since it's probably in stable, and I have a hard time picturing them going along with unpatched holes. :P05:37
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predatorfreakWell, for texlive, looks to me like we need a mirror for the texmf tarball.05:39
predatorfreakhttp://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Comparison_of_file_systems&oldid=209063556#Features05:39
predatorfreakHahahahahaha05:39
jesse_treach: yeah, very likely so. debian stable with too many security leaks would be very much unthinkable. :p05:39
tilmangee, i wonder what that might be about05:40
tilman;)05:40
treachstupid05:40
jesse_Some very childish fools are going the extra mile it seems.05:40
predatorfreakIt's still funny :D05:40
teKtilman05:41
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treachno, it's not funny. it's just infantile05:41
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predatorfreaktreach: Stop being a party pooper.05:41
treachbehave like an adult?05:41
predatorfreaktreach: I need anything which makes me laugh due to texlive right now :D05:42
jesse_Right, since Reiser was found guilty, his work must also be guilty by association.05:43
predatorfreakjesse_: Nah.05:43
predatorfreakI'm actually pissed by the fact Reiser4 will go downhill now.05:43
predatorfreakAlso, the texlive texmf bit is 230MB...05:43
Romsterwould like to see BtrFS listed there once it's stable.05:44
treachit will probably be. but I would like to see it *used* :p05:44
Romsterpredatorfreak, unless someone else forks it or something maybe han can work on a laptop in the prison?05:44
Romstertreach, as soon as it's stable i'm using BtrFS05:44
predatorfreakRomster: Rename it PrisonFS05:45
treachI doubt they'd let him.05:45
jesse_Reiser4 is unlikely to disappear. The community might be small but there still are active maintainers.05:45
treachthat would be to allow him do something productive.05:45
Romsterpredatorfreak, hehe05:45
predatorfreakjesse_: It's chances of going into mainline are zero now.05:45
predatorfreakThe project will stagnate.05:45
jesse_Your point being? They do not seem to care much about that minor problem.05:46
predatorfreakand okay, I'm not going to try to understand texlive <<05:46
predatorfreakIt's impossible...05:46
predatorfreakThey CLEARLY don't intend for humans to package it.05:46
predatorfreakjesse_: If it never goes into mainline.05:46
predatorfreakThe development interest will teeter off.05:46
predatorfreakand the project will stagnate and die.05:47
predatorfreakand also, it's a royal pain to patch Reiser4 for every new kernel version.05:47
Romsterunless his wife is found alive hiding somewhere that would so open a can of worms05:50
Romsteri'm half expecting that too.05:50
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treachI don't particulary care either way, I just wonder how come that the fact that his wife was "familiar" with a guy who has confessed to eight(!) murders doesn't constitute reasonable doubt..05:52
jesse_1) not all users are in the business of changing and tinkering with kernels on a daily basis 2) reiser4 might be stagnating but it is not abandoned, at least not yet.05:52
jesse_"out of sight, out of mind"05:52
f1yhello05:52
jesse_hi.05:52
Romsterhi05:53
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predatorfreaktreach: It was never allowed to be introduced into the case as evidence.05:56
predatorfreakAlso, Sean Sturgeon is reportedly an attention whore.05:56
treachhow convenient05:56
predatorfreakMeaning he could have made all that shit up.05:56
treachso? it's still relevant05:57
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predatorfreaktreach: The Judge seemed to think it was bullshit.05:58
predatorfreakSo he didn't allow it.05:58
treach:>05:58
treach"Let's not screw up a nice little conviction with facts that makes the prosecution difficult" :>05:59
Romsterhe05:59
Romsterh05:59
Romsterif you ask me there is no hard evidence.06:00
Romsterwhere is the body.06:00
treach"habeas corpus" :P06:00
treachEdward I beat you to it, Romster. :D06:02
jesse_Unfortunately that little concept can be ignored at will.06:02
jesse_"he seems like a killer, therefore he must be a killer" GUILTY.06:03
Romster<< yeah everyone does that's nothing new.06:03
treachRomster: I just found it funny you worded it the same way. :)06:04
treachmore or less06:04
Romsterah06:06
Romstermaybe i've been around you to much treach :P~06:06
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f1yhm i've found broken link for gpm - version 1.20.1 out of date, there is 1.20.3 now06:13
jesse_"http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/hans_reiser_trial/#49144716" I must say those reasons for being found guilty are very shoddy.06:18
jesse_"we all agree Nina is dead" good one.06:18
tilmanf1y: poke romster about it06:19
kamikazzemhm... /usr/ports/contrib/liboil exists, prt-get install liboil says liboil doesnt exist?06:21
tilmankamikazze: did you tell prt-get to include contrib?06:21
tilmanprtdir /usr/ports/contrib06:21
tilmanin prt-get.conf06:21
teKtilman: is there still need for a maintainer for directfb?06:22
kamikazzewah, i think im getting old :/06:22
tilmanteK: i think i'd like you to take it. i'm not even using directfb these days06:22
Romsterhmm maybe my ck4up rule for gpm is wrong i'll update the port.06:23
teKI will have a look at it tomorrow, no Linux/CRUX in sight for today06:24
teK*shiver*06:24
tilmanteK: fair enough, no need to hurry06:24
teKhokay06:25
tilmanRomster: http://crux.nu/bugs/index.php?do=details&task_id=258 ?06:32
Romsteri have no idea... sox compiles fine i've tested it in a chroot.06:33
tilmanwell, you shouldn't just let the bug rot :)06:36
tilmanif you cannot reproduce it, you should add that as a comment06:37
tilmanasking the reporter to confirm06:37
teKhttp://photoshopdisasters.blogspot.com/2008/04/zoo-adolf-hitler-is-babe-and-shes.html btw06:38
tilmantreach: can you please try to assign http://crux.nu/bugs/index.php?do=details&task_id=181 to me?06:40
Romsterreplyed.06:42
cptnteK: nice site :-)06:42
tilmanRedShift: or you? ^^^06:43
tilmanrehabdoll: or you? ^^^06:43
tilmann/m, i'm doing it myself06:45
Romsteroh so i now have a please remove qt4 task in bug tracker....06:46
Romsterwaiting on sips reply.06:47
tilmanyeah, the bug might be ooold06:47
Romsterhmm maybe..06:54
Romsteri never noticed it..06:54
tilmani mean it might be 3 hours older than our discussion06:54
Romsterah k06:54
Romsteri'll wait on sip06:55
Romsteri'm off to bed06:55
cptngood night06:55
tilmannight06:55
Romsterlater :)06:56
treachtilman: sorry was afk. apparently someone else already managed to do it. :)07:07
tilmanyeah, np07:08
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juere07:08
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juetilman: yes, will close #21807:10
* tilman successfully broke sasl when upgrading postfix :|07:15
teKcptn: yes, I wil have an eye on adverts myself from now on07:23
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f1y.utftest07:36
f1yoops, sorry, wrong window07:36
kamikazzegrrrrr, the gnome package makes me crazy... errors, errors, erros :(07:50
cruxbot[opt.git]: wine: updated to 0.9.6107:58
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teKwho maintains Gnome?08:40
teKDen Maintainer von gnome sollte man die Eier mit einer Kaeseraspel abrtennen! < aus einem Forum, tilman  :D08:42
tilmanthe guy is obviously an idiot08:44
tilmangnome is maintainted by jaeger08:44
teKtilman: http://forum.mods.de/bb/thread.php?TID=180738&PID=1239118047#reply_123911804708:47
teK;)08:47
kamikazze15:44 <@tilman> the guy is obviously an idiot <- pffff08:54
teKFreehawK is it you?:>08:55
kamikazzeof curse08:55
* cptn hands the Käseraspel to teK 08:56
teK*g*08:57
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tilmankamikazze: how about appreciating the shitload of work that it took to port gnome08:59
tilmanand contrib/libmp4-whatever isn't even a gnome port08:59
teKtilman: he would have complained in #crux if he would have wanted to discuss this issue right here09:00
tilmani just explained what made me believe that he's an idiot :P09:00
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kamikazzeworking gnome port > broken gnome port > no gnome port, and yes, its not part of the gnome port, but needed for it. At all im not flaming the maintainer or something other but in my opinion, i just contribute software wich compile atleast09:09
cptnwhen that port was contributed, it compile09:11
tilmankamikazze: looks like a rebuild of the deps of libmp4* would fix it, btw09:11
cptnas tek pointed out in the wiki, it's libtool that broke it09:11
cptns/wiki/forum/09:11
tilmanoh, he already said that09:12
tilmanmust of missed it09:12
cptntilman: don't overdo it, it might stick ;-)09:13
tilman:D09:13
cruxbot[contrib.git]: p5-gd: First commit09:13
cruxbot[contrib.git]: p5-gd: Added dependencies09:15
kamikazzeteK: gnome builds, i <3 you09:20
teKRomster filed the bug report, love him and: YOU'RE WELCOME09:21
tilmanrunning out of battery ftl09:27
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cruxbot[xorg.git]: xrestop: initial release.10:36
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cruxbot[xorg.git]: xrestop: initial release.10:38
cruxbot[xorg.git]: xrestop: initial release.10:42
tilmani'm done ;)10:43
aon:D10:43
aonoh gee how i hate cpan10:43
aonprobably should update the os on the server anyway before installing anything from it10:44
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aonskipping a release for added excitement, 4.1 -> 4.3 :)10:47
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tilmanopenbsd?10:48
aonyes10:48
* tilman is a psychic ;)10:49
jesse_amazing. :o10:50
aoni don't remember a single crash since i moved the machine away from the closet and upgraded the hdd's10:56
aonso i guess i'll let it be that way :)10:56
jsaon: 4.1 -> 4.3 won't work flawlessly10:56
aonwhy not?10:56
jsbecause the update script expects 4.210:56
jsread the mailing list10:56
aonwhich update script?10:56
aoni'm not doing it wit bsd.rd10:57
aon+h10:57
jsthat one included in bsd.rd10:57
jsok10:57
* js uses NetBSD, there you have etcupdate :)10:57
aoni'm using han's script11:04
jsdon't know it. used OpenBSD for a long time, but got sick of it11:04
aonsomehow i still don't think it will be very flawless, but let's see11:05
aonwell basically it just gets the tarballs, extracts them and lets you merge etc11:05
jsI hate it not having tcp46, I hate updating the base system to update ports, I hate the kernel bugs (mostly I/O-related)11:05
aontcp46 (if it is what i think it is) is evil crap11:06
jsit's not if deployed correctly11:06
aonhow can it be so hard to bind two sockets11:06
jstheo never understood why it is bad, he just said so because itojun said that11:06
jsaon: the problem is that you can't bind the same port to v4 and v6 under certain circumstances11:07
aoninteresting, never seen that happen as of yet11:07
jshappens when you have interface with a dynamic IP11:07
jsand want to bind it v4 and v611:08
jsit was a PITA, so I just disabled v6 back then11:08
jsand since even the OpenBSD guys didn't have a solution to the problem...11:09
aoni have v4 from dhcp and static v6 on one box, and dhcp+rtsol on the others, never had binds failing11:09
jsmy machine is faster now that it runs netbsd, has no more I/O problems with the network card and no more needs the base system to be updated to update a port11:09
aonwell i tried to run netbsd on this box but couldn't11:09
jsand I also recompiled everything with -fstack-protector-all -fwrapv ;)11:09
aonironically because of io bugs :)11:10
jsso openbsd security isn't that much different from that of my netbsd installation ;)11:10
aonanyway, reboot now11:10
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treachinteresting to see someone still using netbsd.11:12
aonit seems that you shouldn't pay much attention to what treach says about bsd :)11:12
treachafter all you tend to hear even less about netbsd than openbsd.11:13
aoni wonder how you can be hangin in #crux, you tend to hear even less about crux than netbsd11:14
aon+g11:14
treachit's still linux though.11:14
treachI don't use stuff based on how much I hear about them, but in general, the less you hear about something the more irrelevant it becomes.11:17
jsnetbsd just doesn't need the hipe11:17
js*hype11:17
jsthey don't go and tell everybody that NetBSD in CVS is now faster than linux when it comes to SMP11:17
treachand then people hearing less is about it, that leads to less new users11:18
jsthey let the FreeBSD guys do that with their benchmarks :D11:18
treachthat leads to decline. etc11:18
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treachfewer users = fewer potential developers.11:18
treachthat freebsd benchmark was a laugh for sure.11:19
tilmanhttp://people.freebsd.org/~kris/scaling/7.0%20Preview.pdf ?11:22
tilmanthatone?11:22
treachprobably11:23
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treachhe compared with some fedora kernel shock full with debug code iirc.11:24
tilmanhttp://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/npiggin/sysbench/11:24
tilmanrebuttal, linux wins ;)11:24
jstilman: that's oooold, old, very old11:24
tilmanboth linked from here http://bsd.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/03/06/1313218 . march 200811:24
jsthere was one lately where netbsd actually beats linux11:24
jsbut gets beaten by freebsd11:24
tilmanmarch 2008 is oooold old very ooooooold?11:24
jsthat's the latest one11:25
jsi was refering to the first link11:25
jsthe second doesn't include netbsd11:25
tilmanit was linked from the /. post above11:25
treachand comparing with a debug kernel is disingenious enough to disqualify you for ever in any kind of situation where people have to trust you, imo.11:25
tilman:D11:26
jesse_"it was a stock kernel ffs!" :D11:27
jesse_"it has to be good!!111"11:28
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treachalso pretty funny how they used that already busted benchmark in their release note for 7.0.11:37
treachd e s p e r a t i o n, anyone? :p11:38
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aonso turns out you need to actually enable software raid to use it13:40
aon:D13:40
treachheh13:40
aontakes a while to compile a kernel on a 466MHz celeron13:40
treachmmh, I wonder how long time it would take to build a modern kernel on my old dx4. :P13:41
aoni'm surprised that anyone has a dx4 anymore, they don't get much media coverage13:41
aon;)13:41
treachyou really took that personally, didn't you?13:42
aonno13:42
aonas it didn't really address me personally13:42
teKaon: quit wining *g*13:42
aonteK: +h13:43
teK< K6-3 40013:43
teKaon: 'f course13:43
aoni can't quit wining as i maintain it and romster is after my balls if i don't update it13:43
teK:D13:43
treach;D13:43
teKAND treach after your skin13:43
teK:))13:43
treachno. I already have one.13:44
aonbut don't you know that multiple skins are hip13:44
aonor at least used to be in the 90's13:44
aonlike xmms and so13:44
teKtreach: to eat it13:44
treachhehe, no, I never was a fan of those crappy skinnable apps13:44
aonwho would like to eat skin13:44
teKtreach, iirc13:45
treachnah, that was predatorfreak13:45
teK:D13:45
treachhe's the madman around here13:45
aonhaha, i have my display incorrectly configured and now it says "assword" on the screen13:45
teKthe guy with this tiny affinity :>13:45
treach:D13:45
teKhaha aon13:45
jesse_batshit insane (tm)(r)13:45
aonwhich is funny since "login" gets still shown in it's entirity13:46
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treachdon't laugh too hard, I know a guy who's unfortunate enought to carry the name "Assman" as his familiyname. :>13:46
treachpoor guy13:46
aonor it might be that the faulty keyboard controller just typed some random control characters by itself and erased the P13:46
teKI know a Bruno Assmann which is not as bad in Germany13:47
treachno, it's not really a problem in sweden either, but most people speak english to some degree. :>13:47
teKsure13:47
kamikazzegtkmm fails, libgnomesu fails and much more... i think gnome doesnt like me much :X13:56
treachprobably have more to do with stuff below it. didn't libtool break a crapload of stuff lately?13:57
treach@seen jaeger13:57
clbtreach: jaeger was last seen in #crux 4 weeks, 0 days, 19 hours, 42 minutes, and 33 seconds ago: <jaeger> js: ok, I'll look into it more this week, thanks for poking at it13:57
kamikazze:(13:58
kamikazzeHis JID isnt public i guess?13:58
jesse_Using gnome means asking for trouble. Hopefully you have a higher tolerance for pain and uncertainty. :D13:58
treachjesse_: no, gnomeusers aren't like that. they are all neurotic and easily confused, and a tickbox can make them break down in tears. :>13:59
kamikazzemhm, gnome worked well for me. i had never problems with.13:59
jesse_treach: when it works. :D This is crux, not everything will immediately work out of the box. ;)14:00
tilmanhe's on freenode, just not in this channel14:00
treachk. we're off the "friends" list then. :>14:01
jesse_I believe this could be referred to as the crux maintainer syndrome :D14:02
treachIf I were the gnome maintainer I'd probably run away too in the end. :>14:03
kamikazzemhm... works xfce well on crux?14:03
treachafaik, yes14:04
treachit seems to be quite popular14:04
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treach"21:18 < GothicD3vil> somebody know about an antivirus for linux? or a good firewall"14:19
treachrofl14:19
* tilman uses norton internet security 200814:22
tilmanin wine14:22
treach;D14:22
jesse_Excellent :D14:23
aonhaha14:26
aoni actually considered doing something like that to scan a usb memory that was used to backup stuff from an infected machine14:27
aonbut clamav was luckily ported14:27
jesse_It is a good thing. Knowing how aggressive and bloodthirsty those linux/bsd* virii are. :]14:32
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kamikazzei think im getting horny, gnome is builded completly :-))15:00
aonuh, okay15:10
jesse_softwarephilia.15:11
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* Romster backs away from kamikazze 15:46
treachffs sounds like sepen got a soulmate :|15:48
aonjejeje xDD15:48
tilmanheh15:50
treachtilman: in case you missed it, it's in yesterdays log. :P15:51
tilmanoh, i misunderstood the joke then15:53
treachI was refering to "<sepen> crux-devel ML is horny nowadays"15:54
treachnot sure what you thougth I meant. :P15:54
tilmanyeah, just found it :D :D15:54
aonhaha15:55
aonyeah, that15:55
jesse_jojojoj.15:56
jesse_+1 and xDD should probably follow.15:56
jesse_:D15:56
Romsteri actually have a dx4 sitting here with ms-dos 6.22 and dos games on it.15:57
Romsternot hooked up currently.15:57
treachwhee.15:57
aoni don't15:57
aoni've never had a 386 or a 486 actually15:58
treachI remember 2.4 taking quite a while on that old artifact.15:58
treachI wonder how long 2.6 would take, with a recent gcc. :>15:58
Romsteroh yeah and i got a couple of 486 sx25 mother boards siting around with 30 pin memory.15:59
treachworst thing I ever actually compiled a kernel on was a dx2 66. but that was not mine. :D15:59
treachlol15:59
RomsterI should probably throw them out.15:59
treachNOoo15:59
treachopenmosix! ;D15:59
Romsterwhat can i use them for.15:59
tilmani compiled 2.0.3x kernels on a 233 mhz k615:59
Romsterlol..15:59
tilmantook about 30 minutes i think15:59
Romsteri did a tool chain on a p2 266MHz took like 3 days.16:00
aoni remember just installing debian on a dx2 66 and was *shocked* by the crappiness16:00
treach:)16:00
tilman:D16:00
Romsteryay crashed firefox by opening a url...16:00
aonhowever, it served a friend of mine as a server for a long time16:00
treachdebian was a real mess back then16:01
aonin fact, i think he migrated the same installation to newer (p1-era) hardware later and is still running it16:01
aonit wasn't back then, it was woody16:01
tilman:D16:01
treachoh16:01
* tilman used debian hamm (2.0) was *shocked* as well16:01
treachhehe16:01
tilmanno apt-get, just dselect *shiver*16:01
tilmanno wait16:01
tilmani only used hamm for a short while16:02
treachpotato was the first debian I tried. horror16:02
tilmani think i had slink (2.1) on the same cd or something16:02
aon00:01 [IRCnet] CTCP VERSION reply from *: irssi v0.8.4 - running on Linux i58616:02
tilmanbut still no apt-get ;)16:02
treachslack was soo much easier. :)16:02
Romstergood ol' debian woody16:02
aonthat guy just doesn't update16:02
tilmanhytter med n"aven @ dselect16:02
treachaye.16:02
aoni wonder if his clock is still like ten years off16:02
treachdselect sucked royally16:02
tilman:D16:02
Romsteraon,  maybe it's his irc chat only computer.16:03
aonSat May  3 12:44:10 200816:03
aonwow, it's only around 12h off16:03
aonnah, it also runs http and ftp16:04
aonused to run a directconnect hub but i guess that's down already16:04
Romsteroh16:04
Romsterhmm 12 hour off... new zealand maybe?16:06
Romsterforgot the other end of the far -12hour end.16:07
treachis that the definition of being behind the times+16:07
treach?16:07
jesse_It might also mean you are at the cutting edge of time itself.16:08
Romsterwel new zeland is +12GMT not sure what is in the -12GMT time zone.16:08
treachalabama ;)16:08
tilmanhah16:09
Romstermaybe i should setup one of my 486 sx25's with some accent old linux verions and stuff.16:09
Romstertreach, lol...16:09
Romsterand i've made a few spelling mistakes damn it.16:09
treachapparently it IS New Zealand!16:10
Romstersee.16:10
treachthem and Fiji and the Marshall Islands16:10
Romsteryeah,16:10
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Romsterfunny how the time line covers areas like that.16:11
jesse_Gnome went crazy on our resident softwarephiliac.16:11
Romsternot ruller straight but oh lets include this in our time zone too.16:11
Romsteri read that jesse_16:11
treach"ruler" ?16:12
jesse_"Gnome: who's _YOUR_ daddy?!"16:12
treachRomster: its not you who claim to get turned on by gnome, afaik..16:12
treachit's, dammit16:13
treachat least he got the gimp with it to perfect his perversions. :>16:13
jesse_bsdm fun with GNOME.16:14
treachindeed.16:14
jesse_Take turns killing your sanity, and it just might return the favor.16:14
treachthe experience of trying to package it is the proof. :>16:15
treach"Gnome is for perverts."16:15
treach:>16:15
Romsterlol...16:16
jesse_A taste for mental pain.16:17
RomsterGnome try's to have a registry. i don't know what to think about that.16:20
aoni do16:21
RomsterAll i can think of is what happens when windows loses it's registry. Then what would Gnome do if it lost it's.16:21
RomsterMaybe if they streamlined Gnome it would be better.16:22
Romsteri'm happy with PekWM currently.16:23
treachopenbox hasn't crashed my box yet \o/16:25
aoni'm using ob now but thinking of migrating to rp16:25
aoni don't like the way it's going16:25
tilmantreach: using ntp (opt/openntp) instead of rdate would of fixed the problem, btw16:26
tilmanor it still would16:26
tilmani don't think openbox' behaviour changed16:26
Romsterrat poison?16:26
aonyes16:26
tilmantreach: and does the current version use .obt yet?16:26
treachtilman: ok, I guess it's because I'm on new hw then maybe16:27
tilmanor are you using some development snapshot16:27
treachtilman: no, I unpacked it.16:27
aontilman: yeah, but they seem to change the theme in every version, and somewhere they removed the number from the end of windows with the same title16:27
aonwhich is just confusing16:27
treachnot sure what do to with the obt file, so tar to the rescue. :P16:27
tilmantreach: i think with some future version, you can just cp it to ~/.themes (or another XDG theme directory)16:28
aonRomster: yes16:28
tilmanaon: mmh, i remember. it might be configurable though16:28
treachok16:28
aontilman: no, entirely removed at some point16:28
tilmanokay16:28
aon3.3 -> 3.4 iirc16:28
tilmanthe numbers annoyed me16:28
treachrp is nice, but it doesn't play nice with stuff like dia, gimp and pidgin16:28
tilmantried finch?16:28
treachyes16:28
treachit sucks16:29
treachbadly16:29
tilmanme too, for about 30s16:29
tilman:D16:29
Romsterlooking at funpidgin maybe.16:29
treachthere is some sort of hope there16:29
treachthe pidgin guys all seem to be autistic asshats, more or less16:29
aoni went back to bitlbee16:30
treachthat's another option16:30
Romsterit's a shame i was liking how pidgin was going before they removed the realizable text area.16:31
Romstergrr reszeable...16:31
treachhaha16:31
Romsterstupid spell checker.16:31
treach"resizeable".16:31
tilman"What makes us different from the official client, is that we work for you. Unlike the Pidgin developers, we believe the user should have the final say in what goes into the program."16:32
Romsterhah spell checker says that is wrong...16:32
tilmanheh16:32
tilmanfrom funpidgin.sf.net16:32
tilmanresizable16:32
treachno, that's wrong..16:32
Romsterresizeable16:33
Romsteri guess i'll add it.16:33
Romsterwow that's amazing the spell checker didn't have that word.16:33
Romsterhad realisable though.16:34
tilmancool, the text resizae thing acaused the fork16:35
Romsteryeah16:35
treachnot really16:35
tilmanmmh, so /. is wrong? unposible! ;)16:36
treachthe cause was more like the generall asshattishness of the pidgin devs.16:36
Romsterkinda stupid they coyuld of made it a option but why not leave it how it was really, you can size the box as you like.16:36
treachgeneral*16:36
tilmanhehe, okay16:36
tilmanmaybe some gnome person forced it onto them16:36
treachtilman: the resize thing was just the last straw I think16:36
tilmanmiguel or so ;)16:36
tilmano16:36
tilmank16:36
Romsterwish they would fix the bloody yahoo plugin so it wouldn't crash pidgin it's forever being broken.16:36
Romsterthey fix it yahoo changes shit it breaks it.16:37
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treachtilman: you can go back for instance and look at their attitude towards people behind NAT for another example. :>16:37
tilmanthat bug has quite some comments :O16:37
Romsterhmm i'm behind NAT. I didn't see any issues.16:37
treachRomster: does that mean there are none?16:37
tilmanmight depend on the plugins you use eg16:38
treachand what you try to do.16:38
Romstertreach, no just means i didn't find any for what I used pidgin for.16:38
tilmanright .oO(file transfer)16:38
treachyeah16:38
Romsterdoesn't say there are none.16:38
Romsterjust i haven't found any myself.16:38
treachk, belive me. there are issues.16:39
Romsteri belive you.16:39
treachbut the pidgin people think they can get away with crap like "NAT sucks and we won't fix that".16:39
treachalso video chat is a long standing fight they have with their users16:40
treachBasically "I don't need that, so nobody else does."16:40
Romsterstrange apparantly there is sizeable but not resizeable in either dictionary.com or www.merriam-webster.com16:42
RomsterNAT sucks... wtf.16:42
RomsterI wouldn't mind video and audio on pidgin been waiting for that for so long that skype even has that for linux now (video that is)16:43
treachI don't care about it either. but there are TONS of people who do.16:44
tilmanhttp://narf.at/4chan/eaa2f603b974235fba36c5bb2f84fe32d124eb47.jpg16:47
tilman:O16:47
Romsteryeah and isn't it what the user would like to see, could even have it as a compile time option.16:47
RomsterO_o16:47
Romsterworse writing than i have.16:48
Romsterthat debate be there til the death of the earth.16:48
aoni don't get what there is to debate anyway16:49
aonemacs HAS vi, several implementations of it, even16:50
aonthat pretty much settles it16:50
tilmanheh16:50
treachwrt bloat at least. :>16:53
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Romsterdamn it deleted a patch i needed... just isn't my morning.17:56
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tilmanglibc-alpha ftw18:16
tilmanespecially drepper's often abusive mails :p18:17
treachsweeter is only when an abusive person get stuck in something they can't deal with themselves. :>18:26
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clickonceCan you recommend any good basic GNU/Linux LiveCD? (All I need is to be able to mount a USB memory stick (rw) and an NTFS partition (ro)).19:13
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Romsteri'd recomend http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/ but it has no ntfs from what the packages list says19:15
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RomsterO_o21:31
Romsterhi eschew_obfuscatn21:31
eschew_obfuscatnHello.21:31
eschew_obfuscatnI remember CRUX-Evolution coming out a few releases ago, and I was wondering if something like "CRUX-Evolution 2.4" would be of any interest?21:32
Romsteris Evolution a different arch?21:32
Romsteri'm not aware of CRUX-Evolution21:32
eschew_obfuscatnNo, it was a CRUX release that included a more complete desktop environment.21:32
Romsteri've been with crux since CRUX-2.1 came out.21:32
Romsterah21:33
eschew_obfuscatnhttp://crux.nu/Main/DownloadOldReleases21:33
eschew_obfuscatn"CRUX-Evolution 2.0.1"21:33
eschew_obfuscatnQuote from the README:21:33
eschew_obfuscatn"CRUX-Evolution offers you a complete desktop system: it has gnome and kde, all is needed to use the printer, the alsa packages, and OpenOffice.org."21:34
RomsterGiuseppe Coviello hmm no idea who he is.21:34
Romsterit would be best to contact that person.21:34
Romsteryou can install kde or gnome as it is with crux.21:34
eschew_obfuscatnWell, that person has not done anything release-wise before or since.21:34
eschew_obfuscatnHere's the thing.21:34
eschew_obfuscatnI'm already building tons of packages from scratch against 2.421:35
eschew_obfuscatnand I'd rather share my extensive efforts than just build them and be stingy.21:35
Romsterslash@crux-it.org found a email.21:35
eschew_obfuscatnSo I was thinking that I could contribute a "CRUX-Evolution" of sorts.21:35
Romsteranother words you want more prebuilt21:36
Romsterand a even bigger iso..21:36
eschew_obfuscatncrux-it.org domain has expired21:36
Romster:/21:36
eschew_obfuscatnNo, I'm building it already for myself.21:36
Romstergoogle his name might find him elsewhere.21:36
eschew_obfuscatnI figured that it would save some others the trouble down the line.21:36
Romsteryou can get the iso.git and edit away at that.21:36
eschew_obfuscatnI'm already going to master such a CD for my own purposes.21:36
Romstermaybe but i compile everything i use and i maintain so it wouldn't be of any use to me maybe to others..21:37
Romstercrux is source based though.21:37
eschew_obfuscatnI know that.21:37
Romsteryou can make a custom iso with more packages though.21:37
eschew_obfuscatnThat's what I mean.21:37
eschew_obfuscatnI mean, it couldn't hurt to contribute such a thing, could it?21:37
Romsterthat would save time include gnome kde repos.21:37
Romsternah wouldn't hurt.21:37
eschew_obfuscatnIntegrating HAL, D-BUS, GNOME, KDE, etc. is such a pain21:38
eschew_obfuscatnmy efforts could be used to avoid duplication for people who want a desktop built from CRUX21:38
Romstersome might like it to save time jaeger has a updated iso but not gnome or kde or xfce4 on it, xorg is on the iso though.21:38
eschew_obfuscatnxorg is on the official 2.421:38
Romsterusually people pick one or the other not both.21:38
Romsteryeah xorg is on the iso21:38
eschew_obfuscatnI got sick of Slamd64 misbehaving so I reinstalled 2.4 yesterday and have been compiling ever since.21:39
eschew_obfuscatnAnd I like to be helpful from time to time :)21:39
Romsterif you have a few boxes you can setup distcc.21:40
Romsterand if you setup a ramfs for port building it'll be faster too.21:40
eschew_obfuscatnThat's not a bad idea, but I haven't tried it before.21:40
eschew_obfuscatnI don't use ports.21:40
eschew_obfuscatnI don't use pkgmk either.21:41
Romsteryou have to be to be compiling Pkgfiles.21:41
RomsterO_o21:41
Romsteryou doing it by hand?21:41
eschew_obfuscatn./configure - make - make DESTDIR=/pkg install - cd /pkg - tar -c * | gzip > /crux/package#1.2.3-1.pkg.tar.gz21:41
eschew_obfuscatnfor every package.21:41
eschew_obfuscatnpkgadd seems to like 'em.21:42
Romsteryou could use pkgmk....21:42
eschew_obfuscatnWould it be any faster?21:42
Romsterthat's the whole idea of pkgutils and crux.21:42
Romsteryes most stuff is done for you.21:43
Romstergo and read the handbook on the package manager.21:43
Romsterwhat your doing is more linux from scratch.21:43
eschew_obfuscatn*shrug*21:43
* eschew_obfuscatn is masochistic.21:43
Romstercurx is basicly like LFS with a package manager.21:43
eschew_obfuscatnThat's kind of why I like it.21:43
RomsterPkgfiles are dead simple.21:43
eschew_obfuscatnLFS is too much trouble.21:43
Romsterprt-get depinst --instal-scripts kde21:44
eschew_obfuscatnWell I will read up on this, then.21:44
Romsteronce you add in the prtdir to /etc/prt.get.con and got the ports file in /etc/ports/21:44
Romsteryou are so doing it the hard way.21:44
eschew_obfuscatnI've been known to be rather difficult at times...21:45
Romsterhttp://crux.nu/Main/Handbook2-4#ntoc1621:45
Romsterbasicly there is commands and the Pkgfile for each port contain instructions on how to compile.21:46
eschew_obfuscatnSo basically Pkgfile is just a script that does what I do by hand anyway?21:46
Romsteryes21:47
Romstercd to /usr/ports/....21:47
Romstertype pkgmk21:47
Romsterand there is pkgadd21:47
Romsterman pkgutils or read that url i pasted.21:47
Romsterand prt-get is a front end to handle dependencys.21:48
Romsterprt-get depinst port21:48
eschew_obfuscatnOh.21:48
eschew_obfuscatnYet for some strange reason I still think that the hard way is better.21:48
* Romster facepams21:49
Romsterfacepalms*21:49
eschew_obfuscatnFor example, HAL depends on a user and group haldaemon that's not defined by default in CRUX, and the package tools don't make that change automatically.21:49
Romsterdo it your way but everyone here is gonna think your strange, well i will.21:49
Romsterthere is pre and post install scripts to handle that.21:49
eschew_obfuscatnI didn't know that pkgadd even used such things.21:50
Romsterprt-get depinst --install-scripts hal21:50
Romsteror edit the install scripts option in /etc/prt-get.conf21:50
Romsteryou didn't read the hand book that's why.21:50
eschew_obfuscatnYes, I'm strange, forgive me my faults.21:51
Romsteryour forgiven it doesn't bother me just your doing it the hard way IMO when there is tools to handle this already.21:52
Romsterif you wanna go your way I'd recommend LFS21:52
eschew_obfuscatnWell, either way, if I can offer up a CRUX CD with all my work already done for others to use, do you think that would be acceptable?21:53
Romstermake it and offer it.21:53
Romstercontribute and ask it be listed on the site.21:54
eschew_obfuscatnOne last question, then: what do I do to offer it up?21:54
Romsterask a crux member. there is a group listed on the wiki on the crux.nu site.21:54
Romsteremail or them irc21:55
eschew_obfuscatnOK, well, when the time comes I will do just that.21:55
Romsteryou could clone the ports tree and edit from that and put them in a seperate repo.21:55
eschew_obfuscatnI don't know anything at all about ports.21:56
Romsterthen read the manual...21:56
eschew_obfuscatnAnd I already have all the sources for everything locally.21:56
Romsteredit /etc/pkgmk21:56
RomsterPKGMK_SOURCE_DIR="/usr/ports/distfiles"21:56
Romstersomething like that and throw all the sources in there.21:57
Romsterthe package manager can use them then if they are what pkgmk is after for the Pkgfile21:57
eschew_obfuscatnI'll look into it some more.21:58
eschew_obfuscatnAnyway, thanks for the help.21:58
eschew_obfuscatnI've got to go for now.21:58
Romsterno problemo.21:58
Romsterbye.21:58
eschew_obfuscatnI'm going to set up a distcc cluster.21:58
eschew_obfuscatnThanks, byebye21:58
Romsterthere is a port in contrib for that..21:58
eschew_obfuscatnI'm not surprised. :)21:59
Romsterread up on enabiling the contrib colection on that handbook21:59
eschew_obfuscatnI will.21:59
eschew_obfuscatnThanks again!21:59
Romster:)21:59
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