IRC Logs for #crux Wednesday, 2008-05-14

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haolehey there... i get a lot of invalid encoding problems with my xfs partition under nautilus... what can i do to solve this on my crux?00:59
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pitillogood morning01:14
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mwansamorning pitillo01:15
pitilloyo mwansa :)01:15
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pitillotilman, ping01:54
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Romsteri return :P02:43
teKreturn(i)02:43
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tilmanmorning02:49
tilmanpitillo: pong02:49
teKhello02:49
Romsterhi02:52
Rotwango/02:53
Romster\o02:58
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sepenmorning03:16
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pitillotilman, do I need to send a message somewhere to have an account? I want to maintain some ports which are maintained by sepen atm in contrib03:37
Rotwangsepen: ode lacks mesa3d dep03:38
Rotwangtry to build it in clean env03:38
sepenohhh nice to known Rotwang03:38
Rotwangnp03:39
tilmanpitillo: are you saying that you want to get into contrib?03:40
sepenpitillo, you mean contib application?03:40
pitilloyes for both03:40
sepenpitillo, in this case, I vote for your application inmediately03:40
sepen:)03:40
pitilloatm sepen is maintaining some of my ports in contrib, I can start making some changes at maintainer lines there to see if I understood how git works03:41
pitillosepen, <303:41
pitilloxD03:41
sepen+1 for pitillo03:41
Rotwangpitillo: dont worry i donno how git work03:41
Rotwangbut getting grasp of it slowly03:41
pitilloRotwang, well, I made some test yesterday and this morning and I hope I can understand well how it works by using it03:41
tilmanpitillo: write an application email to the contrib list03:42
sepentilman, test.git ?03:42
tilmanstep 2: wait until you have two +1's03:42
pitillotilman, oki, I thought that may be that wasn't necesary because the ports I will maintain are in contrib now03:43
Rotwangsepen: are you interested in maintaining plib in contrib?03:43
sepenpitillo, explain that in your mail to ML's03:43
sepenRotwang, 1 second03:43
pitillosepen, perfect, I will write 1 mail explaining that03:43
Rotwanggreat contrib gaining strength \o\ ;]03:44
Rotwang/o/03:44
Rotwang\o/03:45
mwansao// pitillo  :P03:46
pitillo:)03:46
Rotwangbtw i filled my profile in public wiki, and added few additional fields: http://crux.nu/Public/BartlomiejPalmowski03:47
Rotwangi hope it is ok ;]03:47
sepenRotwang, I'll add plib to contrib, but also you can maintain whatever if you want, I often pickup some ports from private repos, the only you need is to change the maintainer/packager lines and be sure you are able to maintain it on contrib03:47
Rotwangok03:47
Rotwangsepen: i need it for one maybe two apps03:48
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sepenRotwang, ok, but I need to update the sources before nothing. and test plib on my private repo03:50
Rotwangok03:50
sepenRotwang, after I updated my plib port please test with your apps as a dep03:50
Rotwangno hurries ;]03:50
sepennice03:50
RyoSRotwang: lives is working just right :)03:54
RyoSeeeeer Romster03:54
RomsterRyoS, sweet :)03:54
Romsteri might move that to contrib.03:55
RyoSit might want lives installed though03:57
RyoSuh03:57
RyoSjack03:57
RyoSi can only encode with pcm sound and it said on first start without jack i would lack many features03:57
tilmanhttp://crux.nu/gitweb/?p=ports/contrib-test.git;a=summary04:02
sepenRotwang, please can you test your app's dependent on plib now? I updated plib to 1.8.5 on my private repo04:03
Rotwangk04:03
pitillotilman, thank you, I will make some test when I will have the account04:04
RomsterteK, you need to add your page to http://crux.nu/Public/ThomasPenteker?action=edit04:04
RomsterRyoS, hmm dunno can run without jack too.04:05
sepentilman, nice and thanks too04:05
RyoSyeah :) just it lacks audio features04:05
RyoSi may try it later, i had jack installed once, didnt work too fine for me so i dropped it again04:05
Rotwangwould someone show me his ck4up.conf?04:14
Rotwangi cant get grasp of the config file04:14
tilmanhttp://crux.nu/~tilman/ck4up.conf04:15
tilmanMISSING   -r--r--r--      root/root       usr/lib/jdk1.6.0_06/jre/lib/i386/client/classes.jsa04:15
tilmanNEW       -r--r--r--      root/root       usr/lib/jdk1.6.0_06/jre/lib/i386/server/classes.jsa04:15
tilmanwtf?04:15
mwansaprt-get diff04:18
Rotwangsepen: plib lacks some xorg dep :/04:18
Rotwangdonno which one04:18
mwansadamnit04:18
pitilloclient/server? strange04:18
Rotwangsomething with gl lib04:18
Rotwangtilman: thanks04:18
teKRomster: which Page?04:20
Romsterin the url contrib members.04:22
Romsterhttp://crux.nu/Public/ContribMembers04:22
teKi'll check it04:23
Romsterand i just edited nearly all the profiles to include a link back.04:23
Romsterat the top.04:23
sepenRotwang, ok Ill test plib on a safe-env04:25
Rotwangsepen: besides this dep it works ok04:25
Rotwangsepen: ill try to track it04:26
sepenI'm testing now04:27
sepenRotwang, ATM I'm doing a sysup of my fresh environment for be sure that I've the lastest deps for building it04:29
RomsterRyoS, also lives can use sox too.04:30
Romsterlives --help lists 'lives -aplayer sox' or even mplayer04:31
f1ywith which gcc flags are CRUX iso packages compiled? can i install it on i586 processor (AMD K6-2 400MHz)?04:36
Rotwangf1y: there is a version for i58604:36
Rotwangsomewhere04:36
f1yhm this means that iso 2.4 packages are built for i686, correct?04:37
teKf1y: there's a i586 ISO04:37
teKi'm running CRUX on a K6-3 40004:37
teKhttp://de-mirror.org/distro/crux/crux-2.4/contrib/crux-i586-2.4.iso04:37
f1yah, true, i see it now04:37
RyoSRomster: yeah :) i prefer mplayer04:39
teKsed -i -e 's/i686/i586/' /etc/pkgmk.conf04:39
f1yyes, yes, i now that :)04:40
teKgreat04:40
f1yi remember this from gentoo04:40
f1yteK: thank you04:40
teKno problem04:40
Romsterf1y, i have a K6II in service here use the i586 iso and it'll set the -march=i58604:41
Romsteri edited that to -mtune=k6204:41
f1yhmm, march isn't better than mtune?04:41
Romstermarch is for a wide range of cups -mtune is very specific and not portable.04:42
Romstercpus*04:42
Rotwangnot opposte?04:42
f1yi always thought that march is very specific...04:42
f1yand mtune is compatible with other cpus04:43
Romstermarch=i586 another words any cpu that runs on a i586 system mtune is for a specific cpu.04:43
Rotwang-march=cpu-type: Generate instructions for the machine type cpu-type. The choices for cpu-type are the same as for -mtune. Moreover, specifying -march=cpu-type implies -mtune=cpu-type.04:43
tilmanMoreover, specifying -march=cpu-type implies -mtune=cpu-type.04:43
Romstermtune may not work on other cpus.04:43
Romsterthats the catch.04:43
Romsterit'll not be as generic as march04:43
Romstertilman, is right.04:44
f1yhm, it means i have failed for years... ;)04:44
Romsterif you don't plan to use the built packages on another cpu type use -mtune, else use march.04:44
Romsterit might just be a little quicker and less code floating around that that specific cpu can't use.04:45
f1ytrue04:45
Romster_COMMON="-O2 -mtune=athlon-tbird -mmmx -m3dnow -fomit-frame-pointer -Wdisabled-optimization"04:45
Romsterexport CFLAGS="$_COMMON"04:45
Romsterexport CXXFLAGS="$_COMMON"04:45
Romsterexport FFLAGS="$_COMMON"04:45
Romsteris what i've done.04:46
Romster-O2 -mtune=k62 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer should be all you need.04:47
mwansalol wtf if your search '-any_word_here' in google you always get DR DRE :/04:47
RomsterO_o04:47
f1yhm is -fomit-frame-pointer a good choice with CXXFLAGS? some time ago i read somewhere that this is dangerous for C++ apps04:47
f1yand what about -Os?04:47
Rotwangno problems here04:47
Rotwangwith -Os either04:47
Romsteryeah -Os if you prefer smaller binaries and maybe lose some performance.04:49
f1yi do not understand march and mtune, i am almost sure, that march compiles code compatible with other cpus and mtune is specific for one cpu only ;/04:52
sepenpitillo, you have a mail04:53
sepenx)04:53
tilmanf1y: ignore mtune, just use march with your specific cpu04:53
f1yi will almost surely do that, but i want to understand it too04:54
f1yto understand the difference and to be wise :>04:54
Rotwangpitillo:L you may take fox if you wish04:54
tilmanf1y: march=pentium mtune=pentium4 would generate code that will work on all pentiums (because of march), but that would work a little better on pentium4s04:56
f1yok, lets leave this for now, i will back to this in the near future, will read sth about this04:59
pitilloRotwang, no no, that's your port. You picked mine and bumped it, like I said I have it in my private repo outdated because I can't bump it up since xfe can be built with it (I didn't mess with it)04:59
Rotwangok05:00
pitillo:)05:01
Rotwangpitillo: you are here for long time you should go for contrib earlier :P05:02
pitilloRotwang, jaajajaa time is only time, I wish I have the needed knowledge to be in contrib and don'g give others more work than the work they have05:02
Rotwangpitillo: i think you're far more knowlegeable than me05:04
Rotwangmy ports areent most beatiful but they work, so i thought why not go for contrib :P05:04
f1ythey dont need to be beautiful, they have to work :D05:05
pitilloRotwang, I know what I know, no what you know. You must understand that you must do your best and if you are ready to do it, I'm happy too. I think I'm ready to start contributing to CRUX in another senses (being a contrib member is the next step, like I say always, bit by bit :)05:05
f1yand to work in possibly the best way i guess...05:05
sepenpitillo, I can give you my ck4up lines for the ports you will adopt05:06
pitillof1y, they must be used, interesting for the comunity, beatifull in the sense that they must do what is expected (avoiding $PKG can cause bad effects to a system)05:06
pitillosepen, I think I have some but if you can give yours better, then I can compare and see if I made something bad05:07
sepenI send you in private05:07
pitillosepen, perfect05:07
sepenxD05:08
pitillotilman, the thread is here, I have sepen's and Romster's aproval. If you have time to take a look http://lists.crux.nu/pipermail/crux-contrib/2008-May/000854.html Tell me where to put the pub key. (always when you have time)05:22
tilmanjust paste it somewhere05:23
pitillotilman, http://lokalix.dyndns.org/crux/id_dsa.pub05:24
cruxbot[contrib.git]: stalonetray: new port05:25
Rotwanghttp://www.xkcd.com/221/ <-- debian?05:27
sepentilman, is that right? # pkg-config --libs gl05:28
sepen-L/usr/ports/xorg/mesa3d/work/pkg/usr/lib -lGL05:28
tilmanpitillo: btw, you should probably start using your realname in your From header in crux-related mails then05:28
tilmansepen: oops, that's not right of course05:29
Rotwangsepen: plib works if xorg-server is installed :P05:29
Romsterhaha debian attacks.05:30
Romsterthat's so not right...05:31
RomsterINSTALL_DIR = $PKG/usr05:33
Romsterthat would be why..05:33
Romsterdamn upstream programmer.05:33
Romsterglu and glw also are affected05:34
Romstersed to the rescue no doubt.05:34
pitillotilman, seems to be solved. I sent a new message to check it and seems to be fine. If is there anything I must check, don't doubt to tell me and I will do what I can :)05:35
sepentilman, there are others with the same results05:36
Romsteri just said that sepen05:36
sepenah ok05:36
Romster{glu,lglw,gl}.pc all need the first line sed-ed.05:37
tilmanpitillo: done. see if you push (only works with the clone over ssh of course)05:39
tilmanif you *can* push i mean05:39
* Romster trys sed -i -e "s|$PKG||" /usr/lib/pkgconfig/*.pc in mesa3d Pkgfile05:44
pitillotilman, oki, I will tell you when I do that05:44
sepenRomster, it does the trick?05:45
Romsterhmm don't think i got a big enough cache for ccache05:45
Romstersepen, i'll know soon.05:45
sepenhmmm trying here05:45
Romsterit's rebuilding05:45
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sepentilman, only gl.pc glu.pc and glw.pc are involved I think05:46
sepenis right Romster ?05:46
Romsteri won't know until it's finished compiling sepen05:47
sepenRomster, just try $ grep '/usr/ports/' /usr/lib/pkgconfig/*05:47
sepenand see the prefix= value05:47
Romsterouch i need to fix my soprano port...05:48
Romsterand mesa3d i'm rebuidling now.05:48
Romsteri'm aware how to look in *.pc files...05:52
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Romsterthis should be a prtverify test too i think05:53
Romsteri'm learning awk stuff.05:54
rxianyone having any issues updating apache?05:54
Romsternope05:55
Romsteri updated mine quite along time ago though05:55
Romsteryou did run rejmerge?05:55
cruxbot[contrib.git]: dmidecode: updated Maintainer line05:58
sepennice pitillo05:58
sepenxDDD05:58
pitillotilman, seems to work fine.05:58
pitillosepen, thank you for your verification :)05:58
sepenpitillo, you can do more than one commit and then push it05:58
pitillosepen, yeah, testing if the key was working fine05:59
sepeni.e git commit -m "foo: ..." foo/; git commit -m "bar: ..." bar/; git push05:59
pitillothe next will be something like that.. commit commit commit, push (status and log between checking always)05:59
sepenyeah05:59
pitillosepen, yeah05:59
sepen:)05:59
pitilloxD05:59
pitillobit by bit.06:00
sepenbyte a byte06:00
sepenxD06:00
pitillotilman, thank you for your fast work :)06:00
Romsternibble by nibble06:00
sepenhehe06:00
Romstercrub by crub (half a nibble and rare to be used)06:00
Romstercrumb*06:00
pitilloRomster, I can see only bits... how many bits are a crumb? :P06:01
Romster2 if i remember correctly since a nibble is 4 bits.06:02
pitilloxD06:03
Romsterlike i said it's rare to be used.06:03
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cruxbot[contrib.git]: leafpad: updated Maintainer line06:08
cruxbot[contrib.git]: jnettop: updated Maintainer line06:08
cruxbot[xorg.git]: mesa3d: fixed pkgconfig files.06:09
tilmansepen: thanks ^^^06:09
teKmoah pitillo TOFU sucks (at contrib-ML)06:09
sepentilman, np Romster also does a great job06:10
Romsterfixed mine already.06:10
pitilloteK, TOFU?06:10
sepennice!06:10
rxiRomster: yeah ran rejmerge06:10
rxiapache wasnt one of them06:10
Romsterand my soprano port.06:10
sepenrxi, no problems here after upgrade06:10
rxicouldnt find libdb06:10
Romsterrxi, whats the issue anyways?06:11
tilmanRomster: you have a copy of the xorg repository, too?06:11
sepenrxi, be sure you have all deps06:11
Romsterhmm i'm a little slow...06:11
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Romstertilman, nope i just edited it locally.06:11
teKhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOFU06:11
Romsterrxi, i'll test apache in my chroot.06:12
rxiall deps06:13
Romsteri'll run prt-get depinst apache06:13
Romsterclean chroots are ideal for testing ports i've found.06:14
pitilloteK, all bad answered my post in contrib ML? (I did bottom-posting on them, or do you mean the one answering romster wich is in the middle?)06:14
teKdunno, just quote the necessary parts06:14
teKplz06:15
rxiRomster: should use a persistant vmware server06:15
tilmanit wasn't actually TOFU06:15
teKdunno, don't give a shit :>06:15
Romstereh dunno..06:16
pitilloteK, sorry, I will try to use [...] to make them shorter.06:17
Romsterrxi, i'll end up doing KVM later on or lguest06:18
Romsteror some ohter setup and run a few things at once.06:18
cruxbot[contrib.git]: codeblocks: Updated Maintaner line.06:19
cruxbot[contrib.git]: fcheck: Updated Maintaner line.06:19
sepentilman, mesa works fine now06:22
Romsterrxi, another thought have you ran revdep?06:23
Romsterapache still compiling here and i suspect ti will compile fine.06:23
Romsterit*06:23
tilmansepen: okay06:23
sepenhmmm06:24
Romstermy sed looks simpler :P06:24
sepentilman, my I can't see -L option06:24
sepens/my/but/06:24
Romstersepen, that's normal06:25
Romster/usr is a default path06:25
sepentilman, sounds that its required -L/usr/include/GL06:25
sepenIm wrong?06:25
Romsterand won't show.06:25
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sepenhmm06:26
DarkNekroshi everybody ;)06:26
sepenheyo DarkNekros06:27
Romstersepen, i went though that ages ago with pkg-config it's normal behaviour and is ok.06:28
sepenok then06:28
sepen /then/d06:28
Romsterand yes i spent some hours figuring that out too :)06:28
tilmansepen: -L/usr/lib would just be redundant. same for -I/usr/include. so pkgconfig strips it06:30
sepenhttp://paste.lisp.org/display/6075106:31
Romsterrxi Building '/usr/ports/packages/apache#2.2.8-1.pkg.tar.gz' succeeded.06:31
rxiim updating db06:32
rxiwhich hopefully will fix it06:32
Romsteron a upto date system06:32
Romsterk06:32
Romsterrevdep would tell you whats broken.06:32
sepensorry I'll return as fast as possible, Im going to eat something06:32
RomsterRD_VERBOSE=2 revdep |tee revdep_log06:32
Romstereat something :P06:32
rxiRomster: what version of db?06:40
Romsterwhat is in core..06:41
Romsteras i said everything upto date.06:41
Romsteri did a sysup just before i built apache06:41
rxiso did i06:43
rxiso what version?06:43
pitillorxi, can you upload somewhere the full apache's log? (10 minutes before going to eat)06:46
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Romsterrxi db 4.5.20-106:49
Romsteras i said whats in core...06:49
rxidw .. symlinked the newer version to the right version06:58
Romstersometimes i think 64 bit is a royal pain you got a lot of problems07:02
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rehabdoll64 works just fine07:23
rehabdollonly binary-only crap might give you problems07:24
Romsterhttp://crux.nu/Public/WorkingWithCk4up new page i'll add more of my little code snipets.07:31
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tilmanfucking unbelieavable08:13
tilmanvalgrind app-that-uses-openssl08:13
tilman  error: accessing uninitialized memory08:13
tilmandebianguy * memsets memory08:13
tilmanhttp://files.code-monkey.de/picard-headdesk.jpg08:14
mwansalmao08:17
RomsterO_o08:17
nipuLi've been using 64bit for quite some time without any issues08:18
nipuLwell major ones08:18
Romsterhttp://www.wimp.com/picard/08:22
Romstertilman, what program might i ask.08:27
* sepen here08:30
teKtilman: do you have the commit that caused the bug or a diff?08:30
tilmanRomster: what?08:32
tilmanteK: nope08:32
tilmanteK: but another DD confirmed that the valgrind error lead to the patch, which is braindead enough08:33
tilmanbraindead isn't strong enough a word08:33
teK:P08:33
teKI read that, regarding valgrind, too08:34
sepen'braindead'??? nice gore film :)08:34
teK:D08:34
teK+108:35
Romsterapp-that-uses-openssl08:41
tilmanwho cares what app it was, it doesn't matter at all08:42
* Romster shrugs and goes back to what i was doing.09:00
Romstersuit yourself..09:01
RedShiftRomster: lol @ picard song09:02
Romster:)09:08
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cptnhey09:09
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thrice`hi09:10
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sepentilman, '2008-05-12 10:00 by TilmanSauerbeck - Removed list of contrib personnel and linked to Public/ContribMembers instead' ???10:02
sepenhttp://crux.nu/Main/About?action=diff10:02
sepenATM appears only j^2 as contributor10:02
sepenpitillo, edit  http://crux.nu/Public/VictorMartinez and http://crux.nu/Public/ContribMembers pages with your profile10:12
pitillosepen, I will try to do it later when I will be at home. Thank you for that remember10:14
sepen;)10:15
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j^2sepen: yep it seems i am :P10:29
sepen:)10:30
j^2i did what i could, but it really was never much10:30
j^2but i did help the voting10:30
sepenI think you appear as a contributor and the other as contrib maintainers10:32
sepennot the same, is right that tilman?10:33
j^2yep10:39
j^2i had a couple Pkgfiles at one point; but never anything CORE related10:39
cruxbot[contrib.git]: bmp: Pkgfile cleanup10:45
cruxbot[contrib.git]: enchant: 1.3.0 -> 1.4.210:45
cruxbot[contrib.git]: ffe: 0.2.5 -> 0.2.610:45
cruxbot[contrib.git]: libsamplerate: 0.1.2 -> 0.1.310:45
Romsteralways busy doing something with contrib.10:47
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tilmanwhat did sepen want to tell me?12:30
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jaegertilman: any way to create a bare sharable git repo without having one ready to clone into it?12:46
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sepenyup12:55
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tilmanjaeger: bare repo? cp -r foobar/.git foobar.git :)13:12
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tilmanjaeger: maybe these days there's a cool command to do it, but that method ^^^ works :D13:13
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jaegerright, that works fine but what I mean is this: is there a way to easily create foobar.git without having foobar/.git?13:13
tilmansepen: what di you want to tell me before? i didn't get it13:13
sepenabout?13:13
Romstergit init13:13
tilmanjaeger: what's your source then? :o13:13
tilmansepen: n/m, i got it now13:14
tilmanyes, j^2 is listed as "contributor" because he maintained the FAQ for some time13:14
sepenohh tilman yeah, the about page and differences between ...13:14
tilmancontributor != contrib member13:14
sepenyeah thats the point13:14
sepenxD13:14
sepenyou're faster typing than me and my poor english13:14
sepenxD13:14
jaegertilman: in this case it would be checked in remotely a la svn/cvs central repo method13:14
jaegermay not be doable, I'm just curious. I cloned project/.git into project.git for mine but while I was playing with it this question came into my head =)13:15
tilmanjaeger: so your source is an svn repo? sorry, i'm feeling dumb13:15
jaegersvn, cvs, or nothing... let me try to reword it13:15
jaegerIf I wanted to set up a repo for a user (not myself in this case) who will have shell access via ssh but may not already have anything to commit, I'd want to create an empty bare repo on the server without having a source for it yet13:17
tilmanaah13:19
tilmanwell, what romster said13:19
tilmanmkdir x13:19
tilmancd x13:19
tilmangit init13:19
tilmancp -r .git .../repo-for-foo.git13:20
tilmanthat should be clonable then13:20
cptnno13:20
cptnyou can't clone an empty repository :-)13:20
tilmanhey cptn13:21
cptnhey13:21
tilmanjaeger: you could add an empty .gitignore as the initial commit then13:21
tilman:D13:21
sepenheyo cptn13:21
tilmanbut maybe cptn has a better idea13:22
cptnno, never hit that myself before :-(13:22
cptnjust tried it now13:22
jaegerhrmm, interesting13:25
cptnRomster: just did a minor change to the patch wiki page BTW13:28
cptnRomster: to use $SRC/ for patches instead of ../13:28
tilmancptn: would you like to announce that rotwang and pitillo have joined contrib, btw?13:28
tilmanotherwise i might do it :D13:28
sepensounds great13:29
cptntilman: if you have time, please go ahead13:29
cptnI'm still catching up :-)13:29
tilmanokay, i'll do it later tonight13:30
tilmani have the idiotic habit of always having irssi running even i'm busy o__O13:30
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sepenme too, never used away command13:31
sepenmaybe running '!away me' command from cruxbot would be nice, this avoid the away message for other freenode channels13:32
Romstercptn, oh i think i prefer ../ if it's one level or 2 anymore to use $SRC *shrugs*13:32
tilmanobviously $SRC is safer ;)13:32
Romstercptn, I've started a page for ck4up too.13:32
cptnyeah13:32
tilmansepen: ????13:32
Romsteri'm careful.13:32
sepentilman, would be nice @away me13:33
tilmanwtf?13:33
sepenfor clb or cruxbot13:33
sepentilman, as @seen does13:33
RomsterO_o13:33
sepena way to grab the nick status by the ircbot13:34
sepenjust only an idea13:34
Romsterwhois the persons.13:34
Romsterxchat seems to know how to track away status.13:34
sepenyeah Romster but this flood other channels on freenode13:35
Romsteryou don't flood other people...13:35
tilmansepen: sounds silly tbh :)13:35
cptnmaybe the bot could kickban people that use away nicks13:36
cptnnow that would be effective13:36
cptn:-)13:36
Romsteryou don't announce when you go away or come back, that is plan dumb.13:36
Romsterjust use /away as it was intended.13:36
sepenpff. sometimes if I use /away command, other persons from other channels advise my that is flood for the channel13:37
cptno_O13:37
tilmano_O13:37
sepeni.e_ #obsd13:37
tilmanyou aren't supposed to *announce* your away status13:37
Romsteryou deselect the option to advertise when you go away.13:37
sepenI think I can't explain the point13:38
Romsterwhat tilman said.13:38
sepenjust remove my comment13:38
sepen:)13:38
Romsteryou do not advertise you are away you just use /away13:38
Romsterlike this13:38
Romsternow i'm away...13:38
Romsterdidn't advertise.13:38
sepenhmmm13:38
Romsterwhois me i'm away status13:38
sepenmaybe I was wrong, please remove my words :)13:39
Romsternow i'm back not marked as away13:39
Romstermore like 'forget what i said'13:39
sepen<tilman> i have the idiotic habit of always having irssi running even i'm busy o__O13:39
sepenjust use /away13:40
Romster#obsd is dumb if they think using away floods when you don't anounce.13:40
sepennope Romster sorry I was wrong13:40
sepenwas my fault13:40
Romster:) k13:40
sepenI confuse the output with another irc command13:40
sepen;)13:40
cptn.oO(/fancyaway)13:41
Romstermaybe you confused with /nick Rom|Away then /nick Romster13:41
Romsterthat away of using the nickname.13:42
sepenyeah thats the point13:42
sepensorry one more time13:42
sepenxD13:42
cptnsepen: don't worry, it's very common in some communities13:42
Romsteryeah or the 'is away' 'is back time ... doing...'13:43
cptnsepen: and frowned upon in others13:43
sepenxD13:43
Romstersome people like it some don't it doesn't bother me personally which way.13:43
Romsteronce again 'waiting for crux.nu'13:44
Romsterwhy is it slow.13:45
tilmansweden <---------------------------------------> australia13:45
Romsterit never was that slow...13:45
Romsterbefore the ip change.13:45
tilmanmaybe the pipes are stuck13:45
tilmanerr, tubes13:45
sepen--- crux.nu ping statistics ---13:46
sepen1 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 0ms13:46
Romsterit's done it on a number of occasions. and it arn't me i've tested on other sites but i didn't see where the bottle neck is.13:46
cptn--- crux.nu ping statistics ---13:46
cptn9 packets transmitted, 9 received, 0% packet loss, time 7998ms13:46
cptnrtt min/avg/max/mdev = 55.912/88.234/182.959/38.371 ms13:46
sepencptn, you are in the same country13:47
sepenthe same ISP?13:47
cptnmmmh13:47
Romster9 packets transmitted, 9 received, 0% packet loss, time 8067ms13:47
Romsterrtt min/avg/max/mdev = 370.937/397.347/446.789/27.299 ms13:47
cptnI thought only Americans thought that13:47
tilman:>13:47
sepenheh13:47
tilmanSWeden. SWitzerland13:47
tilmanclose enough13:47
sepenajaj13:47
tilmanSPain. omg, spain is almost sweden ;)13:47
Romsterlol13:48
sepenI can't remember it13:48
Romsteri mean it works fast when it loads other times it sits there waiting.13:48
sepen68 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 66999ms13:48
sepenspain == sweden13:48
teK"Maintainers" was "cleaned" out Oo13:49
tilman?13:49
teKhttp://crux.nu/Main/About13:49
sepenteK, I asked the same to tilman some minutes ago13:50
tilmansee http://crux.nu/Public/ContribMembers13:50
sepencontributor != contrib maintainer13:50
tilmanduplicating the whole list is pointless IMO... and mike_k acked that change13:51
Romstercptn, http://crux.nu/Public/WorkingWithCk4up i did a few hours ago i should add more of my little scripts to it.13:51
sepenbut the fact is that contrib maintainers don't appear in the team13:51
cptnRomster: I saw that, too13:52
Romstereh some status we don't need. the proof is in the quality of the ports.13:52
sepenyeah13:52
Romstercptn, any ideas on that?13:52
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tilmansepen: ffs, i put them in Main/About in the first place13:53
tilmanthen someone went ahead and duplicated the damn list13:53
sepentilman, From gi2-0-0.core01.vlc01.atlas.cogentco.com (149.6.83.69) icmp_seq=109 Packet filtered13:53
sepencould be the reason?13:53
tilmanmaintaining two lists certainly is retarded13:53
Romsteroh and i edited the distcc page more but i really need to get ti renamed.13:53
Romsterit*13:53
tilmanmake up your frigging minds13:53
sepentilman, Im not contrary to this13:53
tilmanokay13:53
cptnRomster: well, I was wondering whether it could describe the goal initially13:54
cptnRomster: I'd expect that a user browsing the public wiki might not know ck4up yet13:54
cptnRomster: we can probably ask jue next time he's on whether would like to add a more generic page on ck4up though13:55
Romsterhmm i should add a blurb on what ck4up is and how to make a ck4up config file then that can be below it on how to maintain your config file.13:55
cptnit's good to see some activity on the wiki though13:55
thrice`the config file is the toughest part, imo13:56
cptnI've started to think about a page with random tips for packaging13:56
Romsterthough it kind is jue's tool so he should be the one providing the wiki for how it's used and me just pointing out some ways to ease the pain.13:56
cptnsomething like a "best practices" document13:56
thrice`Romster: well, not really; the man page is very good, remember13:56
Romsterhmm true.13:57
cptnRomster: well, I guess the pain you have is only a problem if you have as many ports as you have :-)13:57
Romstershouldn't have to duplicate the man page then...13:57
Romstercptn, it's not really a pain when i've devised ways to check and stuff.13:57
cptnRomster: sure. I just remember that when I was more actively porting, I'd just add it as soon as I created a port13:58
Romsteri just thought i'd share my experience and how i cope with it.13:58
cptnbut just to make it clear, I think it's fine13:58
Romsteri think tilman out does me in ports if you count xorg too. :P13:58
thrice`heh, yeah...your ck4up.conf must be huge :)13:59
cptna note what ck4up is might just make the page more useful for people looking for random information :-)13:59
Romsterit is.13:59
tilmanespecially since you hve core/* and opt/* in it13:59
tilman:>13:59
Romsterhence i needed a way to see if i missed any lines.13:59
Romstertilman, i have them in seperate conf files :)13:59
thrice`hm, tilman could probably just use the giant invidual mirror for xorg, though14:00
Romstercptn, i'll add a small blurb and refer to the man page for more details.14:00
tilmanthrice`: i'm reading xorg-announce for the xorg ports14:00
cptnRomster: maybe this could also be on a meta page14:00
Romsterah that would make it easier.14:00
cptnI think the with more content added to the wiki, some overview pages will be needed14:01
Romsterhmm meta page?14:01
cptnyou know, describing other wiki pages14:01
sepenRomster, a skeleton page?14:01
cptnlike a "getting started to packaging", which points the user to patching, usage of ck4up etc.14:01
Romsterwe have a http://crux.nu/Public/HomePage index for it now.14:02
sepenhm14:02
Romsterjust add to the categorys.14:02
Romsteri dont' see a need to subdivde it up anymore yet.14:02
Romsteralso that wiki engine... what the hell is it.. it's no where near like wikipedia.14:03
Romsterhasn't got a list of contents, doesn't do CamelCase.14:03
cptnlist of contents?14:04
Romsterand i'm concerned soemone will wipe out the info we all added even though there is a restore page option..14:04
Romsteryeah small table you can add in like ((contents)) or add in a ((map)) or some other table/divider with stuff in it.14:05
Romstereh nevermind just that wiki engine is not what i'm used to.14:06
cptnwell, the table of content works fairly well in the handbook14:06
Romsterhmm i can't even look at the code of that to see how that's done.14:07
cptn(:toc:)(:num:)14:07
Romsterah14:09
cptnbut yeah, different wiki engines can be a pain, especially if you're familiar with a particular one14:10
Romsterwell i'v messed some on wikipedia and trac. and this one is nothing like either of them.14:11
Romsterguess it's me that has to get used to it more.14:11
Romsteri'm still trying to figure out how i want to format the wiki articles i make i'm kinda still drafting on a style and looking at other pages.14:12
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Romstercptn, edited http://crux.nu/Public/WorkingWithCk4up14:30
cptngreat14:31
Romsterstill need to improve it somewhat.14:32
Romsterbut it's looking better.14:32
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Romsterhmm site died again... well link to it.14:49
Romster7  IP-ONLY-TELECOMMUNICATION.te3-1.ar1.OSL2.gblx.net (64.215.28.18)  641.002 ms  3609.818 ms  688.545 ms14:49
Romsterlast hop before i got /dev/null14:49
cptnsame here now14:49
Romsterand it's laged to the buggery...14:49
tilmanwe can do nothing about it anyway.14:50
cptnlaso maverick left...14:50
Romsteryeah14:50
Romsterwonder who manages that backbone.14:50
Romsterdamn it i'm in the middle of a wiki edit too.14:51
Romsternow it's back14:56
Romsterand edited the ck4up page again. think that will do fornow i'm geting tired.14:59
Romsterand it's nearly dawn too and i've been up all night again...15:00
cptnjaeger: http://toolmantim.com/article/2007/12/5/setting_up_a_new_remote_git_repository15:01
cptnjaeger: you can just initialize an empty repository15:01
cptnjaeger: and have the user push to it initially15:02
jaegercptn: nice, thanks :)15:02
Romsterhmm i should be writing my wiki stuff like that. :P15:03
Romstersame method works with hg too other than slightly different commands.15:04
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Romstergblx.net is defiantly to blame for this issue... ti's doing it again.15:13
Romstermaybe script kiddies are DDoSing.15:14
Romsteranyways i'm gonna get some sleep few hours i guess.15:15
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tilmancptn.community_agenda_thing << :lastfm_crux_group :D15:33
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raceris crux.nu's rsync down atm?15:48
* racer seems to be having trouble connecting...15:48
tilmanto which ip are you connecting?15:49
racerlooks like 213.132.101.14015:49
racercan't get to the website either.15:49
tilmanbut but... dig rsync.crux.nu15:49
tilmanie it's either jaeger's box or my box15:50
tilman:p15:50
racerthe .rsync files don't say rsync.crux.nu, they say crux.nu15:50
tilmanoh sorry15:50
tilmani was thinking of rsync.cr.xnu15:50
tilmanmy bad15:50
tilmanracer: yeah, apparently crux.nu is having issues15:50
racerdoes rsync.crux.nu  have the same data?15:51
tilmanno no15:51
racerI can modify the *.rsync files if that's all15:51
tilmanit's completeyl diffenrt15:51
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tilman^^^^^ see, network trouble ;)15:51
tilmantry again in a few hours ;)15:51
racerdon't have a few hours :)15:51
raceroh well15:51
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ximondahi guys!16:14
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sepencruxbot down16:43
tilmancrux down16:45
sepennope16:46
sepennot the wiki16:46
tilmanmy ssh connection just died anyway16:46
sepennot the git16:46
sepenI recently pushed 2 times16:46
tilmancrux.nu certainly has issues...16:47
sepenbut this sounds me a bit curious16:47
sepenFrom gi2-0-0.core01.vlc01.atlas.cogentco.com (149.6.83.69) icmp_seq=217 Packet filtered16:47
sepenFrom gi2-0-0.core01.vlc01.atlas.cogentco.com (149.6.83.69) icmp_seq=308 Packet filtered16:47
* sepen tv16:50
cptnso much for the flooding... ;-)16:51
tilmanximonda: hi16:52
ximondahi tilman16:52
ximondajup, crux.nu seems to be down over here.16:53
ximondasame view from nothern germany.16:53
tilmani restarted cruxbot some minutes ago, and it didn't show up yet, either16:54
tilmanbut i don't know which freenode server it tries to connect to16:54
tilmancould be the swedish one, but i'm not sure16:54
ximondagit doesn't work from duisburg16:54
tilman;)16:54
ximondaand back...16:55
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cptnyay cruxbot16:56
tilman\o/16:57
tilmanone of these days i really should write some auto-reconnect thing ;p16:57
sepentilman, Im using 'monitor' for this17:03
sepencontrib/monit17:03
sepenif you can take a look http://www.tildeslash.com/monit/17:04
tilmani thought of fixing the problem the right way[tm]17:05
tilmanie in code ;p17:05
sependid you read all features of monit?17:06
tilmanno17:06
tilmani guessed what it does :D17:06
sepenjust I think that sometimes its useful17:06
tilmanof course17:07
cptndidn't we run monit on crux.nu way back?17:07
tilmani'd ssh in and check but (you guessed it) the connection is b0rked again17:07
cptnI have a monit alert from crux.nu at least :-)17:08
cptnback from june 200617:08
tilmanheh17:08
cruxbot[contrib.git]: monit: Cleanup and updated 4.10.1 -> 5.0-beta117:22
cptnso much for latest stable :-)17:23
tilman:>17:24
cptnah, but they finally added distributed monitoring (multiple monit hosts)17:25
cptnanyway, time to get some sleep17:26
cptngood night #crux17:26
tilmannight17:26
sepennight17:26
ximondacu cptn17:26
DarkNekros_night cptn ;)17:27
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ximondaOkay, I am also out to get some sleep.17:42
ximondacu!17:43
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RomsterRomster is in da house :P22:05
alanciohi22:05
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Romsterg'day.22:06
alancioits night here22:07
alancioI guess this must be the hour with least activity here22:08
alancioall europe is sleeping22:08
Romsteryeah and it's 1pm in australia where i live.22:09
Romsterit gets active in a few hours time22:10
Romsterdepends what everyone is doing.22:10
alancioI wonder of any of them read the IRC logs22:10
alancioif so, read this: you suck!22:10
Romsteri'm just gonna make me a coffee and do more reading up on posix signals before i go do some pkgutils hacking.22:10
Romsteralancio, most do actually. :P22:11
alanciohehe22:11
Romsterso you just dug yourself a hole!22:11
alanciodon't you work?22:11
Romsterpart time self employed.22:11
alanciojust like me22:12
Romsteri see22:15
alancioyou do software development?22:16
Romstera little.22:23
Romsterstill learning programing i can handle small stuff.22:23
Romstermostly i'm a electronics tech and computer tech software and hardware, and web sites too.22:24
alanciowhat did you study?22:24
Romsterelectronics the computer stuff is just a extension/hobby thing.22:26
alancioI did it the other way around22:27
Romsteroh and i'm a sound engineer for mixing live bands too.22:27
alanciocool22:27
Romsterstarted in computers and went to electronics?22:27
alancioyes, but I'm not very good yet22:28
Romsteri got to work with a few big names artists.22:28
Romsterthe rest were cover bands.22:28
alanciowell it must be fun with any band, and you get payed too22:28
Romsterbut some were very good, and others i just drank more booze to pass the night, still money in the pocket though, though i've given up drinking now.22:28
Romsteralancio, best part is siting in the band room after chatting sometimes jamming and drinking.22:29
Romsterworst part is the next day packup of gear.22:29
alanciohehehe22:29
alancioand I can imagine the chicks in the band room22:29
Romsterthe rig isn't that big but it's abut 20,00 watts of lights and depending on venue we sued 3,000 to 10,000 watts rms of sound22:30
Romstermy ears ringing on some of the big events for like 4 damn days after.22:30
alancioI hate that feeling, and the sensors in the ears just die and never recover22:31
Romster20,000 watts of lights*22:31
Romsteryeah22:31
Romsterluckily the really loud bands are few of and far between.22:31
Romsteri'm 30yo and i can hear to at least 18KHz if not more.22:31
Romsteri should test myself again.22:32
alanciohehe22:32
alancioI have a 15khz sound22:32
alanciothat drives young people crazy22:32
alanciopeople older than 40-50 can't detect it22:32
alancioI played it in the office just to see who could hear it22:32
alanciothe old ones just kept going22:33
Romsteri can pick up on a high pitch feed back in a otherwise imposable guitars blasting drums thumping.22:33
Romsterlol22:33
alanciothe old people thought we were teasing them22:33
alanciothat was funny22:33
Romsteri can hear a tv set's horizontal output oscillate from another room they run at 15.625KHz for PAL22:34
Romsterya know that ring tine parents can't hear but teens can?22:34
Romstertune*22:34
alancioyes, it must be that22:34
RomsterI can hear that sound as loud as i can hear my music <<22:35
alancioits usually a disgusting noise22:35
alanciovery perturbing22:35
Romsteri must have exceptional hearing.22:35
alanciomy hearing sucks22:36
Romstercar disc breaks screeching, man that kills my ears. worse than a loud band does.22:36
Romsterso alancio what are you up to at this hour you up late night?22:36
alancioI know I'll be death when I'm old22:36
alanciodeaf22:36
alanciowell, death too :P22:37
Romsterrofl...22:37
Romsterboth apply eventually22:37
alancioI was working in something, but I gave up22:37
alanciowith asterisk22:37
Romsterwhat was it, if i may ask and not intrude.22:37
Romsterah22:37
Romsterthe PABX stuff.22:37
alancioI'm setting it up in my house, and some features don't work yet22:38
alancioyes, its really awesome22:38
alanciowhen it works22:38
RomsterI'm wanting to get VoIP with SIP all going some day and piss skype off.22:38
Romsterskype has this share bandwidth evil thing.22:38
alancioyes, I hate skype22:38
alanciowell, the latest version of skype doesn't work with the latest version of xorg's libs22:39
Romsteri still use it but behind a firewall and with QoS so it can't do a lot.22:39
RomsterO_o22:39
Romsteri run it just fine.22:39
Romsterand my xorg is upto date.22:39
alanciooh wait, I'm missing a lib22:40
Romsteri'm sure i got all the dependencies listed in the Pkgfile.22:40
Romsterthe most stupid one is why does it need the screensaver lib..22:40
alancioyes you did22:41
alancioexactly, that was the one I was missing22:41
alancioprevious versions didn't require it22:41
Romsterah that was a later addition.22:41
alancioso I updated skype without installing the libs22:41
Romsterand it arn't listed on there web site.22:41
alanciogood thing this happened22:41
Romsterthere ya go <<22:41
Romsterprt-get deptree skype22:42
alancioit finally pushed me to using sip phones :)22:42
Romsterand always see if you arn't missing any deps.22:42
Romsterlol22:42
alancioI use twinkle, its awesome22:42
Romsteri agree i'm gonna nuke skype and use SIP later.22:42
alancioI used a QoS script called astshape (like wondershaper) and it rocks22:43
alancioit took some time to tune it right22:43
Romsterhmm is in contrib too.22:43
Romsteroh.22:43
alancioyou should try asterisk, its not hard22:44
Romsteri never saw that one i got my own QoS setup it was a hacked wonder shaper untill i altered it so much it doesn't even look like it anymore.22:44
alanciohehe22:44
Romsterlooked at asterisk i got daunted.22:44
alancioQoS is more scary22:44
alancionot scary, but complicated22:45
* Romster looks up astshape22:45
Romsterfunny enough i can understand QoS and how cryptic tc is.22:45
Romsterbut i spent ages reading and trying.22:45
alancioyou have to use your imagination to figure whats going on22:46
alanciowell, I don't know how to inspect the queues, and that stuff22:46
alancioI don't know if its possible at all22:46
Romsterpredatorfreak, can vouch that i'm a freak with QoS he has seen my messy firewall an i'm helping him with his blackhole firewall script and adding QoS and nat etc.22:46
predatorfreakRomster is a certified TC rapist <<22:46
alanciohehe22:47
alancioyou have a blackhole chain? :P22:47
Romsterech stil using htb22:47
alancioor target22:47
alancioas opposed to?22:47
alanciohe has two versions22:47
predatorfreakalancio: -j DROP is blackholing.22:48
alancioone uses HTB, the other one uses other stuff hehe22:48
Romsteralancio, have a look to hfsc its' alot better than htb22:48
Romstertakes some getting used to though.22:48
alancioI'll have to learn it someday, I have more things to learn before that22:48
Romsteryou can set delay and bandwidth options for interactive and bulk data in the one rule.22:48
Romsterit's a graph it's very effective and beats the crap out of htb22:49
Romsterhttp://linux-ip.net/articles/hfsc.en/22:49
alanciothe only problem with QoS is that it has to be done on every router in the way22:50
Romsterbookmark it for later or wait for blackhole v3 to be ready :)22:50
alancioheh ok thanks22:50
Romsterand i'm bout if you need a hand i'm still learning but i know a fair bit now on it.22:50
Romsterpredatorfreak, :P22:50
alancioso you are publishing the blackhole scripts somewhere?22:51
predatorfreakalancio: My repo.22:51
Romsterv3 will be sometime i'm still hacking on QoS22:51
predatorfreakgt clone git://dcaf-security.org/blackhole.git for now22:51
Romsteri want it fully working before it's released and nat.22:51
predatorfreakAs Romster says, v3 will be done after QoS is done.22:51
alanciook22:52
alancioI'll be checking22:52
Romster:)22:52
Romsterdon't hold your breath but it'll be done.22:52
alanciohehehe22:53
Romsterfor some reason firewalls and QoS fascinate me.22:53
alanciothey are complicated topics22:53
alancioespecially if you mess up with NATs22:53
alancioand all those netfilter possibilities22:53
Romstervery but also very rewarding when you see i can download and upload and and still not get major lag.22:53
Romsterwith no bandwidths set at all in any program and my connection is screaming at breaking point.22:54
Romsteroh and i use IMQ too iptables-imq in contrib.22:54
alancioits very usefull if you are using bittorrent and voip at the same time22:54
alancioI wonder who contributed that port :P22:55
Romsteryep that's one thing of many and still ssh interactively.22:55
Romsteralancio, :P22:55
Romsteri also hang out in #netfilter22:56
Romsterand other places too.22:56
alancioit amazes me how much you know about this stuff, while studying electronics22:56
Romsteri should try out asterix, i got a modem here i wanna turn into a answering machine too.22:56
Romsterah i teach myself stuff.22:57
alancioasterisk can't handle regular modems22:57
alanciojust like me with electronics22:57
alancioI downloaded many books22:57
Romsteryeah asterix is seperate i'd have to use mgetty or something... i forget now.22:57
alancioyes, mgetty, with vgetty22:57
Romsterbe a separate thing that would work along side.22:58
alancioI have an mgetty port22:58
Romsterah22:58
alancioI didn't put it into contrib because its too messy22:58
Romsterhave you done that stuff.22:58
alanciowhen I was in college, I did22:58
Romstermaybe you can teach me how it all works and i can teach you QoS :P22:58
alanciohehe22:58
alancioI used to own a BBS22:58
Romsteror electronics.22:58
alancioa dialup BBS22:58
Romsterah22:58
Romsternice.22:59
alancioin college I set up a dialup connection to the campus, for professors22:59
alanciowith PPP and such22:59
alancioI have 3 modems with voice capability in my closet23:00
alancioexternal ones, USRobotics, they used to be the top modems23:00
Romsterah i got a twister modem here it's the most reliable i've ever owned and wont part with it, it's my backup when my dsl dies.23:01
Romsterand i'd also like to sue it for fax/answering machine someday.23:01
alanciobetter use it than sue it23:01
alanciobetter yet, buy a FXO card23:02
alancioand use asterisk23:02
Romstererr use*23:03
Romstermy bad typing.23:03
alancioI would recommend a Digium TDM card23:03
Romstergot a url to it?23:04
alanciohttp://www.digium.com/en/products/analog/tdm410.php23:04
Romsteralancio, is alan your private repo only one that has mgetty in it on portdb23:04
alancioyes, it is23:04
alancioI thought I'd be the only one ever to use that port23:05
*** morlenxus has quit IRC23:05
alancioI never tested the voice functions23:05
*** morlenxus has joined #crux23:05
alanciobut the rest worked flawlessly23:05
Romsteralancio, ah neat.23:05
alancioit can handle 4 modules23:05
Romstermaybe if i get mysetup working that could be put in contrib with at least 2 working setups i got the hardware to do it now.23:06
alancioyou can use modules to connect to telephone lines, or to regular phones23:06
Romsteri was thinking of later on POTs to VoIP23:06
Romsterfor normal calls and of course i'd prefer to use SIP where possible.23:07
Romsterinteresting that would save me doing the electronics :P23:07
alanciotoday I had a 2 hour conference, one party over sip, the other on pstn23:07
alanciocrystal clear sound, international call23:08
alanciowell, not so crystal, just like skype23:08
Romsterah that's good enough for voice.23:09
alanciothe greatest electronics project I've done is a IR receiver, for lirc :)23:10
Romsterthey must be all "how did he do that"23:10
Romsterlol...23:10
alancioyeah23:10
Romsterthat's very basic23:10
alancioI know, but it was not for me!23:10
Romsterand just soldering it all together.23:10
alanciowell I had to program a microcontroller23:10
alancioand also build the programmer for it23:10
RomsterI've designed circuits, it's one thing to build a kit but to actually design and make my own PCB is totally way harder.23:11
alancioyes, of course23:11
alancioI know that23:11
Romsteri got a programmer here haven't done a lot with it though.23:11
alancioI'll be a happy man the day I can design something like that on my own23:12
Romsterlooking into mini itx boards or something for home automation.23:12
alancioor for car entertainment23:12
Romsteri've done power supply's audio circuits are my speciality though23:12
Romsteri've even made my own amplifier my design.23:12
alanciothats the kind if thing I'd like to do23:13
alancioI have a project in mind right now23:13
alancioI want to put a sip phone as the doorbell23:13
Romsteri'm keen on building some switch mode power supplies to.23:13
Romsterlol neat.23:13
alancioits not hard23:14
alancioI'll just take a sip phone apart, solder a button to a quick-dial23:14
alancioattach a headset to the wall's speaker and mic23:14
alancioI'm not sure it will work though23:14
alancioI'll have to break my phone to find out23:15
Romstercan only try electronics is logically thinking how it all goes together really.23:15
alancioI don't even know how an oscilloscope works23:16
alancioor what could I do with it hehehehe23:16
alancioI have to read more of the books I've downloaded23:16
Romsteroh man...23:16
Romsterthat's one of the most used peaces of equipment.23:16
Romsterother than the DVM23:16
alancioI have a multimeter23:16
Romstererr DMM23:16
alanciobut osciloscopes were too expensive when I was a kid23:17
alancioand I was interested in all this stuff23:17
Romsteri got a $150 Brymen BM20223:17
alancioI read an article in slashdot a few years ago23:17
Romsterthye still are i'd like to use a crt monitor off a compute for one.23:17
alancioa guy was asking for good electronics books23:18
alancioso I just read the answers, and started searching and downloading23:18
alanciomost people recommended The Art of Electronics23:18
Romsteri'm always after good electronics books specially ones that have schematics of projects and ideas.23:18
alancioI had a girlfriend that was studying electronics23:19
Romsterforgot what i used but i started off reading in the library and soldering when i was like 10yo.23:19
alanciowow23:19
alanciowell I started with magazines23:19
alancioI once made a fishing machine23:20
alanciowhen I was 1223:20
Romsterby teen i've got all certificate and i've been working on dangerous 240/415 volt stuff and even some lasers and stuff that could kill ya easily.23:20
alanciohave you ever got electrocuted?23:20
Romsteri haven't done alot of high voltage stuff recently.23:20
Romsternope i've got a few shocks before though.23:21
alancioI have too23:21
Romsteri'm very careful23:21
alancioand also burns, with the soldering gun23:21
Romsteroh i've burnt myself on my soldering iron i got a scope 100 watt.23:21
Romsterthat bitch hurts!23:21
alancio100 watts!23:21
Romsteryes it's a scope 100watts!23:21
Romsteri do some heavy soldering of big stuff too.23:21
Romsteri got a small iron for smd work too.23:22
alanciowow23:22
alanciothats fun23:22
alancioso when something breaks down in your house, you fix it23:22
Romsterthat big iron can be sued on delicate boards too t's a manual temperature controlled one.23:22
Romsterpretty much.23:22
alancioI fix things here too, but sometimes I leave them worse hehe23:22
Romsterlol..23:23
alanciomy house is a mess right now23:23
alanciobecause I'm changing RG-59 with RG-623:23
alancioand breaking down some walls to put pipes for new cables23:23
alancioI have a server running freevo23:24
alancioasterisk, nat, http proxy, etc23:24
Romsterah quad shield for digital tv23:24
alancioand anywhere in the house I can use the IR remote to control freevo, play movies, series, music23:24
Romsterneat.23:24
alanciowe still don't have HDTV here23:24
alancioand I don't have cable, or satellite dish23:25
Romsterwe got it here already..23:25
alancioonly what I download and put into freevo23:25
Romsterand this is australia known to be slow.23:25
alancioI'm in venezuela23:25
Romster2009 goes the analog tv23:25
alancioand they are still fighting over the standard, between europe and japanese23:25
alancioeven though EVERYBODY has a US tv23:26
alanciothey won't be able to receive the signal23:26
Romsterthat's fun...23:26
alancioI know many people with 42 inch plasma TVs23:26
Romsterthere is so many diferent formats it's not funny.23:26
alanciothey don't want the US standard, just because its from the US23:26
Romsterfigures.23:26
alanciono technical reasons23:26
alancioif it comes from the US its evil23:26
Romsterthey got a slightly higher refresh but lack 100 lines...23:27
Romsterso it's a good and bad thing.23:27
alancioI haven't looked into the standards23:27
Romsterbut digital tv should all be the one standard.23:27
alanciobut I think it should be a global standard23:27
Romsterso do i.23:27
alancioyeah23:27
alancioenough of this metric vs imperial, 110 vs 220, etc23:27
alanciontsc vs pal23:28
alancioright vs left driving hehe23:28
alancioespecially imperial system makes me puke23:28
alanciowhat do you use in australia?23:29
Romsterhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTSC and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAL look at all the variations it's a bitch.23:29
alancioyeah, russia has secam too23:29
Romsterah yes i don't know anything about that system though.23:30
Romsteri mean is it hard to have one standard.23:30
alanciodon't forget the chinese23:30
Romster120 volts should be kicked out in favour for the new standared of 230volts.23:30
Romsterthat got set in 200623:31
alanciowhats the benefit?23:31
Romster120 has to have thicker cables more copper more wasted materials.23:31
Romsteralthough americans have a center taped 240 volt system for houses.23:32
Romsterso they have 2 live 120 volt feeds.23:32
Romsterfor them 240 things like stoves heating etc.23:32
Romsterwhile everything else is 12023:32
Romsterit's a stupid setup but ya know Americans they like to be different.23:33
alancioyes, its the same here23:33
alanciowe use awg 12 cables23:33
Romsteri hate them measurements i use mm, awg and b&s is a pain.23:33
Romster1.5mm or thicker depending on the run for our 16 amp power circuits.23:34
Romsteranyways whats a better topic to be discussing :)23:34
Romsterthey been beaten in the ground millions of times.23:34
alanciohehe23:35
alanciothey only got right the right way for driving :P23:35
Romsterlol yeah...23:36
alanciobut all the american countries are heavily influenced by the US23:36
alancioall our technology is imported from them23:36
Romsteryeah23:36
alanciothe worst are the brits23:36
alanciohave you seen their phone connectors?23:36
Romstermaybe i can help ya out in the electronics stuff too :)23:37
alancioand their power connectors? argh23:37
alanciosure you can23:37
alancioand they drive on the left23:37
alanciotalk funny23:37
Romsternope but we did have a discussion and i was shown a few weird looking sockets and plugs that some resemble a power socket.23:37
alancioI haven't been in england23:38
alanciobut I went to ireland, and I was exposed to the brits stuff23:38
Romsterah23:38
alanciothe irish are trying to change it all23:38
alanciothey use the euro, they are changing left lane driving to right lane driving23:38
alanciothey are using the metric system23:38
alancioexcept in north ireland23:38
alanciowhen you go from south to north, the road signs change from km/h to mi/h23:39
Romsterworst thing is this not polarised power sockets for active and natural and the fact some don't even use a earth... I would be so going wtf at that. and is highly dangerous and i would so change it.23:39
Romsterthat's a pain23:39
alancioyeah23:39
Romsteri prefer metric but i know most of my imperal measurments too.23:39
alancioto be honest, I don't really know if the polarization matters23:39
Romsterit does in cases.23:40
alanciojust recently I've been playing attention to it23:40
Romsterand some cases not many are aware of.23:40
alanciolike motors?23:40
Romstertake transformers and motors23:40
alanciook23:40
alancioI heard that in the 70s the americans tried to change to imperial23:41
alanciobut it didn't catch23:41
alanciothat sucks23:41
Romsterthe winding towards the center of the metal core should be the neutral  so it's got a low potential difference to the earthed motor and the active to the outside away from the iron more so it's got a high electrical isolation, if the natural end rubs on the iron somewhere it would sort turns get hot melt short and blow a fuse. now if it was active near the iron core it would crate a huge voltage on the earthed motor if it wasn't earthed... and23:43
Romsterif it was earthed a heavy current though the earth system to blow the fuse.23:43
Romsters/natural/neutral23:44
Romsternow that's a case that not many even know about.23:44
alancioI did know, because I have 3 motors at home23:45
Romstermay years in the trade and ya learn a lot.23:45
alanciofor the garage doors23:45
Romstermost likely induction motors.23:45
alanciodo you use a special cable for ground? or do you use the pipe metal for it?23:45
Romstera standard wire that is stranded even in the house wiring so it's always the last one to break.23:46
Romsterwe have the netual tied to earth rods at each substation and breaker box.23:46
alancioneutral is usually the white wire, right?23:47
alancioand phase the red one23:47
Romsterbut from the breaker box the earth and neutral is separated so in case the neutral breaks we are still safe.23:47
Romsterit depends on the colour codes.23:48
alanciodo you get a shock if you touch the neutral?23:48
Romsteramerica uses black for active and white for netural23:48
Romsterno the neutral should be at earth or close to it.23:48
alanciowe use white for neutral, green for earth, and red/blue/black for phase23:49
Romsterbut if the neutral is broken it could be hot at some point so that's not wise to touch it.23:49
Romstergreen and yellow striped for earth23:49
Romsterred for active black for netural.23:49
Romsterfor 3 phase we use red blue and white for the three actives black for neutral and the same earth colours.23:50
Romsterbut not that long ago we had colours changed from the consumer end after the power sockets.23:50
Romsterto be brown for active, blue for neutral and green with yellow stripe for earth. for the colour blind23:51
Romstersince red and black look the same.23:51
alancioyou mean, your country changed power sockets and then the colors changed?23:51
Romsterand transposing that is dangerous.23:51
Romsterno the sockets are the same and the wiring.23:52
Romsteronly the cables like extension leads and cables on all appliances use the blue brown and green/yellow now.23:52
Romstermuch the same audio conecters changed from red  and black to red and white.23:53
alanciothats true23:53
Romsterand car batterys now use red and blue and not red and black.23:53
alanciocar batteries are still using red and black here23:53
alancioyour country must be full of asian people, right?23:54
Romsterfor the main cabling it's not altered since they are required to not be colour blind to have a license.23:54
Romsterno idea we got migrants form everywhere.23:54
Romsterfrom*23:54
Romsterit's spot the aussie in Melbourne at least.23:54
alanciowe have many chinese people here23:54
alancioand we are very far away23:54
Romsteri see23:55
alanciobut no japanese, I guess they are doing well enought there23:55
alancioenough23:55
Romsterwe don't get many in my town, they seem to congregate in the major cities more.23:55
alanciowhats the population of your town?23:56
Romster10,00023:56
alanciowow so you all know each other23:56
Romsternearly.23:56
Romsternot quite small enough for that23:56
alanciobut I bet you don't feel anonymous23:57
alancioI mean, anywhere you go you'll find somebody you know there23:57
Romsterah not always yeah.23:57
Romsteri do when i'm in my room at my computer mostly.23:57
alanciohaha23:57
Romsterbut then again a lot know me online too23:57
Romsterits a small world23:58
alancioI live in a big city here23:58
Romsteri so don't know how i can contain all my information..23:58
Romsteri see.23:58
Romsteri like it quiet and i like nature and camping and cycling etc.23:58
Romsterbut it sucks more for work.23:59
alancioyou can work through the internet23:59
Romsteri hate the rat race it is in Melbourne and other cities.23:59
alanciorat race?23:59
Romsteryeah i do web sites that way too.23:59
Romsteryeah go go go all the time23:59
Romstertraffic is crazy.23:59
Romsterwhere the break when do you take it easy and relax23:59

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