IRC Logs for #crux Friday, 2008-05-16

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cruxbot[opt.git]: update qt4 to 4.4; major cleanup; assume maintainership00:59
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pitillogood morning01:01
predatorfreakpitillo: Morning? It's 2AM!01:01
tilmanmorning anyway01:03
pitilloI don't know where I have the link to the irc ugt time...01:04
cptnwe could write something on our Irc wiki page01:04
predatorfreakpitillo: Personally I prefer to utilise the generic solution, gug and gub. (Generic UTC Greeting and Generic UTC Bye)01:08
predatorfreakor "Hi" when appropriate :D01:08
cptnI prefer to use whatever the joining/leaving user's time is01:08
pitillowell, here
pitilloyeah, I have the the habit of using morning (when I enter here) and more when it's in the morning here too...01:10
pitillobtw... this doesn't matter01:10
predatorfreakpitillo: Well, no one is talking about anything else01:11
predatorfreakSo, why not discuss greetings? :D01:11
pitilloyeah, it's 8 in the morning here..  is there a better way to start a friday morning? :P01:12
predatorfreakpitillo: No :D01:12
tilmanyou know that is-it-friday-yet site?01:12
pitillojajajaja :)01:12
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Romster :P01:23
tilmannot the one i meant01:24
cptnheh, openssl comic @ xkcd01:24
predatorfreakUbuntu is Vista! Oh noes!01:26
teK  :>01:26
teKhaha cptn01:27
Romsterman debian is so taking the piss for this mistake.01:28
predatorfreakRomster: Dumbass mistakes deserve big reaction :D01:28
teKthe people in #grml don't seem to agree01:29
teK~two days ago someone tried to make a joke of all this.. he was ROASTED alive :D01:30
predatorfreakteK: Well, they're wrong :D01:31
teKoh well this bug ist just embarrassing :>01:33
teKI'd deny the FACT, too01:33
teKthe air force builds signals intelligence databases, short: SIGINT .. hahaha01:40
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pitillomust this be fixed? grep "<" -R /usr/ports/contrib/|grep Packager02:07
pitilloI mean to follow the same way for all ports or this really doesn't matter at all?02:08
Romsterpredatorfreak, true02:10
Romsterpitillo, hmm i'd prefer that to be fixed.02:12
Romstershould keep to the one format.02:12
pitilloyeah, I think that too but I prefer to ask before sendig a mail to contrib ML02:13
pitillothis isn't a big or important issue, but if all can follow the same pattern, I think it can be better02:14
Romsteri'd say mail the affected maintainers to fix that line so it's in the correct format.02:15
RomsterI like keeping to the one format.02:15
Romsterchose one and stick to it is one of my personal rules.02:15
pitillowell, and the one to chose is the one used in core's ports IMO02:17
cptnteK: that's where I got it from :-)02:18
cptnpitillo: i think we could allow both the correct e-mail, and the obfuscated one02:18
cptnpitillo: but when using the later the format should be consistent02:19
pitillowell, some of these  ports are using both, the normal and the ofuscated in the same port02:19
cptnthat's rather ugly :-)02:20
pitillobtw, this isn't really a problem, but can be done in 1 unified way for all ports at least in core/opt/contrib ports02:20
pitilloI think teK has the big part because he adopted lot of ports02:21
cptnyeah, probably just an oversight02:22
pitilloteK, feh cmatrix menumaker qingy qingy-themepack genmenu spamassasin keychain02:23
pitillotek, if you have a bit of time and you feel can be a good idea to change it, these are the ports I saw.02:24
pitillopredatorfreak, one for you too. mkvtoolnix02:24
predatorfreaktilman: I know it.02:25
predatorfreakI use it :D02:25
predatorfreakDamn it.02:25
predatorfreaktilman: Sorry :D02:25
predatorfreakOh wait I maintain that don't I.02:25
predatorfreakShit I'm getting forgetful.02:25
predatorfreakpitillo: The incorrect shit is from Han's old packager line.02:26
predatorfreakI was too lazy to change it really.02:26
pitillowell, only was a comment. If you think can be nicer to have them with the same patter I hope you can change them02:26
pitillopredatorfreak, yeah, I saw it.02:27
predatorfreakThere's some other problems with the format there too02:27
nipuLemail munging is pointless anyway02:27
predatorfreakI'll fix both02:27
pitillopredatorfreak, I saw a few and told here what I found.02:27
nipuLas if bots can't handle "at domain dot com"02:28
pitillowell, I have nothing to the real or ofuscated mail... I mean to keep all in 1 unified way.02:28
predatorfreakmkvtoolnix is out-of-date too02:29
pitillobtw, if can be used both formats, don't bore with this theme02:29
cptnpitillo: I think to some extend, you as the "contrib community" can decide this02:30
RomsternipuL, yeah they could easily handle that format too.02:30
cptnpitillo: personally, I'd go for consistency02:31
cptnpitillo: but sometimes, it's not worth to enforce it02:31
Romstercptn, like i said chose a format and stick to it.02:31
predatorfreakcptn: Personally, I say we need a contrib dictator :D02:31
pitillocptn, well, this isn't really something related directly to contrib... I think it's related to all repos (but it's true that problems are only in contrib)02:31
Romsterthat's one of my personal rules i've made.02:31
predatorfreakRomster: Sometimes, that rules doesn't help you :D02:32
cptnpitillo: well, contrib is a showcase for personal repositories02:32
predatorfreakLike the whole optional thing.02:32
Romsteryeah crux-devel was talking about mailing list.02:32
predatorfreak-rules +rule02:32
predatorfreakFix0rating and updating mkvtoolnix.02:32
cptnpitillo: I mean users will certainly look at ports from contrib to learn02:33
pitillocptn, ummm but aren't personal ports... I mean, if they are in contrib, they must be checked by contrib members too (or we can add in contrib what we want?)02:33
cptnpitillo: so if it's used consistently there, it'll have some influence02:33
pitillocptn, true. But really in privartes repos you can do what you want... you musn't follow any kind of rules02:34
cptnpitillo: sure, but many people don't want to reinvent the wheel02:34
cptnpitillo: if there's a standard, they'll use it02:35
pitilloummm right02:36
cruxbot[contrib.git]: qt4: removed...02:36
pitilloI think can be good to make a way to let users to contact contrib members to put interesting ports to contrib02:37
cruxbot[contrib.git]: mkvtoolnix: Update to 2.2.0 and fix some formatting related problems.02:37
pitillomay be these ports can be interesting for a contrib member who can maintain 1 port02:37
pitilloif not, I can't see the way to let users use a standard (only when a contrib member finds a port interesting and decide to put it in contrib and maintain it)02:38
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cruxbot[contrib.git]: md5deep: Update to 3.002:41
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Romsteri tend to reformat all ports i pick up out of personal repos. just wish some of them would want to join contrib.02:44
Romsterhi sepen_02:44
cptnRomster: how about asking some guys you pick up ports from?02:45
cptnyou know, to join contrib02:45
Romstercptn, i email them.02:46
cptnokay, great02:46
Romsterthey eithe don't reply or say something like it's ok for you to put it in contrib.02:46
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teKpitillo: yeah, I'll fix it in about five hours02:53
teKthx for the *ptr02:54
pitilloteK, thank you a lot :)02:54
pitilloteK, to you too :)02:54
cruxbot[opt.git]: hal: Update to
cruxbot[opt.git]: hal-info: Update to 20080508.02:55
namenloshi, does anyone know a script to normalize filenames (e.g. remove some patterns from the filenames)02:56
teKnamenlos: for + sed + mv should do the trick02:57
namenlosor rename them according to a pattern (like s/<some patterns with groups>/<replacement>/?02:57
Rotwangnamenlos: write one02:57
teKzmv from ZSH would help here, too :)02:57
predatorfreaknamenlos: I've got a perl regex renamer sitting here as well02:57
namenlosk, predatorfreak would you mind to share it?02:58
predatorfreaknamenlos: It's stolen from someone else, I forget who02:58
namenlospredatorfreak: thx02:59
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tilmanshock, horror03:09
tilmani have to install hugs03:09
tilmanand guess who has the port03:09
Romsterhugs98  yhafri03:10
surrounderyhafri really has a lot of ports03:10
Romsterhugs... for a moment i thought you were going gay :P03:10
Romsteri've pinched a few yhafri ports.03:11
Romsterbut i make sure i sanitise them first.03:11
surrounderbtw peeps, I've talked with my boss and he doesn't mind me to have a crux mirror on one our servers03:11
Romsterafter that blasted libiconv.03:11
nipuLtilman: does it have to be hugs, i have a ghc port that can be bootstrapped03:13
tilmannipuL: url please03:14
tilmani httpup'd sigi's ghc port, but it had issues, too03:14
nipuLit's in multiatch format,
cruxbot[opt.git]: mplayer: Update to svn revision 26753.03:16
nipuLyou can just s/x86_64/i386/ the main Pkgfile03:18
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tilmannipuL: downloading, thanks :)03:21
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nipuLyou need to do it twice if you want a native version03:23
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tilmannipuL: do you know a pdf viewer based on poppler that can display haskell-98-tutorial.pdf correctly,ie without fucking up the fonts?03:25
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tilmani tried epdfview, and it fails hoirrbly03:25
Romsterxpdf no good?03:26
nipuLi use epdfviewer, it's not that bad is it?03:28
nipuLalso, does it have to be the pdf version?03:33
Romstercould also convert it to html too.03:34
nipuLthe dvi version renders quite nicely03:34
nipuLthere don't seem to be many options for poppler based viewers03:39
nipuLi suppose i could try evince03:40
nipuL time to dust off prt-tag03:40
nipuLoh, i call it prt-back now03:40
tilmanxpdf works03:41
tilmannipuL: in epdfview, the fonts are unreadable here03:42
RomsternipuL, is that a snapshot history thing?03:42
Romsterah neat that would be nice if cptn would accept the work.03:42
nipuLhahaha, but i've forgotten how to use it03:42
nipuLtilman: screenshot?03:43
tilmannipuL: boo, your port tries to install to /usr directly03:54
tilmanon the first run, ie just using the binary03:55
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nipuLre: epdfview: oh, i use mine to fit width04:19
nipuLquite unreadable at fit page04:20
nipuLi'm curious to see if it's a poppler or edpfview problem04:23
tilmanpoppler. i'm seeing the same with raktpdf, my poppler app04:24
nipuLi'm just installing evince04:24
nipuLprt-back copy evince-test; prt-get depinst evince .... prt-get remove `prt-back diff evince-test`; prt-back remove evince04:27
tilmanokay, haskell _is_ kind of cool :D04:37
nipuLif you like brain asplosions04:37
rxianyone tried prt-gtk?04:39
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tilmanthe fact that i cannot build ghc or hugs limits my joy today04:42
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nipuLwhat went wrong?04:53
tilmannipuL: first, it seems the default make target needs DESTDIR set, too04:54
tilmanmake DESTDIR=$PKG04:54
nipuLhmm, might be for the binary one04:54
tilmanbut in the install phase it still tries to access /usr directly04:54
nipuLmaybe there should be 2 ports04:55
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nipuLit's alive!!!
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teKyeah, I've got this one at home, too05:55
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Romsterthose colours are way off.05:58
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Romsterand i got a bunch of them <<05:58
Romsterand a proper c64 monitor too.05:59
sepen_ohh Romster you are faster replying at ML06:00
Romsternot fast enough pitillo bet me :P06:00
Romstererr s/bet/beat06:01
RomsternipuL, that's what ti's ment to look like.06:02
Romsteralso are you using the svideo out of the C64 or the tuner? s-video is better. but you need a 5 pin din to rca lead then convert the 2 rca's to a s-video mini din.06:03
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nipuLRomster: yeah that's how i hooked it up to the tv06:08
Romsters-video way neat. best picture but you so got the contrast and brightness wrong or that camera hates tv's06:08
nipuLi think it's a little of both06:09
nipuLthat's the best i could get with the camera, high apeture, low shutter speed06:09
Romsterwhat games do you have?06:09
Romstermaybe at that slow you over exposed the picture.06:10
Romsteri have a load of games here must be like 400 or so.06:10
Romstercartridges disks tapes.06:11
Romstermost of which i've transferred to my pc with a cable i've made.06:11
nipuLno games06:12
nipuLi need to make an x1541 now06:12
nipuLthen hook it up to the pc06:13
nipuLthe svideo cross over was more important so i could make sure it works06:13
nipuLare you supposed to see all the dots?06:14
Romsterpretty much normal if there only faint, that's the video clock bleeding into the video signal.06:18
Romsterthere should be a metal shield on the video section of the c64 video area.06:19
nipuLyeah, i used a shielded cable for the svideo06:21
Romsterit's not really noticeable on games.06:21
Romsterso you got no games and plan to convert them over from the net?06:22
nipuLi was going to just use a serial cable and a 1541 emulator06:23
Romstersurprised arnold is still running that site is old as.06:24
nipuLthat or i could chuck on contiki and get an eth64 card06:24
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tilmannipuL: the ghc binary needs o_O06:26
cptnRomster: I know I've asked this before, but couldn't distcc provide /usr/lib/distcc like it used to?06:30
cptni.e. without any install scripts06:30
nipuLhmmm, i wonder how i got it on my computer then06:31
nipuLtilman: if you like i can build a package at work tomorrow06:31
nipuLi have a couple of i686's there with it installed06:32
tilmannipuL: i'd appreciate that!06:32
RomsterJue bitched at me...06:33
* tilman tries ln -s
cptnRomster: no he didn't06:33
Romsteri changed. eh i guess i can revert distcc..06:33
cptnhe bitched about gcj et al06:34
cptnnot distcc06:34
Romsteristcc doesn't require a masquerade directory, it can be used as CC='distcc gcc' as well. so isn't it wise to make it optional and not force it on the user?06:35
cptnthe reason why I added /usr/lib/distcc is that some builds ignored the CC env var06:35
cptnso the user had to revert to patching to use distcc or ccache06:36
cptnusing the masquerade directory solved that nicely06:36
Romsteryes that's the reason why i went the full masqueraded directory it was the easiest solution.06:36
Romsterit's still use able it's just in a pre-install script instead of in the Pkgfile.06:37
Romstereasiest = easy-ist06:37
cptndistcc's post install is 40 lines...06:38
Romsterit is a word according to my spell checker.06:38
cptnyeah, I understand the word06:38
cptnthe previous solution was simple, transparent and worked in the most basic setups06:38
cptnthe rest was left to the user06:38
Romsterthe requirement was pre and post files must play nice if ran multiple of times.06:38
Romsteryeah and Jue hated it.06:39
Romsterbut i'll revert distcc only.06:39
cptnhated what?06:39
Romsterthe symlinks in the Pkgfile.06:39
cptnhe, he did?06:39
cptnlet's ask him06:39
Romsterthen it got sugfested to put them in a post-install so i moved them then i said done now and he thanked me.06:39
Romsterno idea what do i do with the post-removes that i alter found out there is no support for. guess i'll ask the contrib ML for input on that.06:41
Romsterso do i revert distcc or wait for Jue?06:41
Romstercptn, if you wanna go back though the logs i'm sure you'll find the discussion.06:41
cptnokay, let me check06:42
Romsterhmm maybe Jue was saying that eh hated them in the Pkgfile for the compilers only. since it would mess the footprints up but i didn't have them listed in the footprints at all since i use that ignore on new files in footprints patch and build my ports with only the dependencies present in a chroot.06:43
cptnit's not really clear06:44
cptn<jue> Romster: for me your distcc/ccache stuff is just annoying06:44
Romsterand without distcc or ccache installed it wouldn't install them symlinks anyways.06:44
cptn(may 03)06:44
cptnhowever, I think it was a follow up to:06:44
Romsteri just moved the lot to the suggestion to put them in post-install.06:44
cptn<cptn> predatorfreak: or check the distcc detection in contrib/qt406:44
Romsterand someone said don't forget the remove script too so i made them and stupid me didn't look to see prt-get does not support remove06:45
Romsterthat was the disable to make qt4 work if distcc was installed.06:45
cptn<cptn> predatorfreak: or check the distcc detection in contrib/qt406:45
cptnerr, sorry06:45
cptn<predatorfreak> cptn: As I said, I think Romster's gcj distcc/ccache bits should be moved to a post-install script.06:46
Romsteri honestly don't know why it was a issue how i had them originally i got the idea from tilmans ccache port.06:46
cptnpredatorfreak mentioned the post-install scripts06:46
cptnbut clearly for gcj06:46
Romsterwhich would imply i do it for the lot no?06:47
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cptnwell, you have distcc on one hand, which depends on nothing06:47
Romsterotherwise they are not consistent and i like to keep everything consistent.06:47
cptnthen gcj which depends on distcc06:47
Romsterit doesn't depend it's optional.06:47
Romsterso is ccache06:48
cptnthat't the point06:48
cptntherefore it shouldn't be in build()06:48
cptnwhere "shouldn't" means "I think it shouldn't"06:48
Romsterso i moved it to post-install for gcj gdc gcc-fortran gcc3406:48
cptnbut also for distcc06:48
Romsteryes as it's not required.06:48
Romsterand asked tilman to correct his port too, hmm maybe i went over board with distcc...06:49
cptnbut the README states that it's there06:49
cptnthe README mentions that you can just prepend /usr/lib/distcc to PATH06:49
Romsterand i stated on the wiki for distcc it's in a post-install06:49
Romsteri should of updated that.06:50
Romstermy bad.06:50
cptnnevermind, I'll roll my own port06:50
Romsternah i'll fix distcc06:50
tilmanyou didn't ask me to do anything afaik06:50
Romsteri see it's pointless having the symlinks outside if you dont' want it don't install the port.06:50
Romstermaybe i wasn't direct enough.06:50
cptntilman: he did :-)06:51
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Romsteri showed you waht i did and your ccache still has them in the build()06:51
Romstercptn, i'll fix distcc only.06:51
Romsterand if Jue says anything i'll tell him this discussion.06:51
tilmanwhat's wrong?06:52
tilmanwhat needs fixing?06:52
cptnRomster: please, I'll be happy to defend the distcc revert06:53
cptnRomster: towards jue, I mean06:53
cptntilman: nothing, it's all good06:54
Romstertilman, it's sorted.06:54
Romsternevermind. be in soon cptn06:54
Romsteri hate doing extra work when i don't need too.06:55
cruxbot[contrib.git]: distcc: put the symlinks back in the build() function06:58
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Romsterany other ports i need to fix?06:59
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tilmanhi jue07:01
Romsterwhat great timing.07:01
Romstercptn, your missing a dependencies on qt4 to even compile in a clean chroot.07:04
jueRomster: I didn't complain about the distcc/ccache ports but about the things you've done in other ports due to them07:04
Romsters/missing a/missing a lot/07:05
Romsterk there've been altered now is there any other ports of mine you disagree with?07:05
Romsteri would rather know so i can fix them.07:05
jueRomster: ok?07:08
Romsteri'm fine, just wanna know if any other ports of mine you disagree with that need altering.07:10
Romstercptn, so far i've added: libtiff libmng mesa3d xorg-libxcursor fontconfig xorg-libxinerama xorg-libxi to your qt4 to get it to even compile.07:11
Romsternote i didn't run findredudnetdeps i just added them manually on the command line.07:12
Romsteri'll add to FS once i get the complete list.07:13
jueRomster: it's not my intention to inspect all your ports, so no07:15
Romsterfeels like our on my back all the time. only because i seem to tick you off or something.07:16
Romsterok i'm off to work on stuff and leave you to it.07:16
tilmanfunny: fontconfig, libxcursor, libxinerama, libxi mesa3d, libmng are listed in opt/qt407:17
Romsterodd i did depisnt of them grr07:17
Romsteri actually copied them... to the command line and did prt-get depinst... unless all the commas screwed it that up.07:18
jueRomster: certainly not :-)07:19
tilmannipuL: build succeeded :)07:19
Romsterprt-get depinst --install-scripts fontconfig, glib, libmng, libpng, mesa3d, xorg-libxcursor, xorg-libxi, xorg-libxinerama, xorg-libxrandr07:20
Romsteryeah them rechered commas07:21
juetilman: I can provide a ghc 6.8.2 package, if needed07:21
Romsterjue, maybe it's a personality clash then :)07:22
nipuLtilman:did the readline link work?07:23
RomsternipuL, i can't find it but there is a sd reader for the userport on the c6407:23
Romsteror the ide64 project but that's going old now since the sd sticks would be ideal.07:23
Romsterhi thrice`07:23
tilmanjue: n/m, i just finished the build07:24
tilmanthough a working port would be great :D07:24
nipuLRomster: yeah i know07:27
RomsternipuL, check out too :)07:28
Romsteri often hang out on there irc channel and listen to there stream.07:28
nipuLwow, what a shit url07:29
nipuLyes, yes07:31
nipuL :P07:32
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cptnRomster: O_o08:30
cptnRomster: I may miss some deps, but I can see a couple of those you listed in the Pkgfile...08:31
Romsterah was my i moved the modifyed Pkgfile to opt/qt4-new and becasue it won't work with prt-get i copied the depends on line not realising the commas messed my prt-get depinst <copied line with commas>08:32
Romsterso that was my mistake...08:33
Romsterjust ran prt-get depinst qt4 then canceled it after the deps got installed then pkgmk in the qt4-new directory.08:33
Romsteri honestly think them commas are a pain and should go a single space is good enough.08:34
cptnI was actually about to change that08:34
cptnbut kept it for now since I wanted to make the diff clearer08:35
Romsteryou'll find any port i make i don't use commas.08:35
cptni.e. not mix pure cosmetics with other updates08:35
Romstermake it a bz2 while your at it too.08:35
Romsteri see do it in two stages.08:35
cptnonly have to push that one :-)08:35
cptnit's only committed08:35
cptnxorg-libsm xorg-setxkbmap openssl dbus freetype08:36
cptnthose are in your port but not in mine08:36
Romsteri cooked myself some steak.08:36
cptnmight be that I need them too08:37
Romsternot sure i got it building with only your dependencys atm.08:37
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cptnfreetype and xorg-libsm are already pulled in from other deps08:37
Romsterhmm might want to add dbus but it'll compile without.08:38
Romsterok so that narrows it down it's told me warnings for no sql stuff.08:39
cptnyeah, the default is to dlopen the dbus libraries08:39
cptnso it will work if dbus is there, and fail if it's not08:39
Romsterdbus, some warning about code in glib.08:39
Romsterwarns of no gstreamer08:40
Romsterit seems to compile without dbus you'll just lose functionality.08:40
RomsterWARNING: Failure to find: ../../shared/fontpanel/fontpanel.cpp08:40
Romsterno idea on that one.08:40
Romsterno idea on this bit maybe it wants alsa-lib not sure.08:44
cptnwhat are you refering to?08:44
cptnI think dbus is the only dep from your port which could be considered08:45
cptnxorg-setxkbmap is only a binary, can't see how that's relevant to a library08:46
cptnIIRC ssl is inside qt, not liked from ssl08:46
cptnand the rest was redundant depth08:47
cptnso I'd expect it to build08:47
Romsterit's building all them are just warnings not errors.08:47
cptnare you refering to "Warning: No relevant classes found. No output generated."?08:47
cptnin the pastebin?08:47
Romsteri guess my ccache sise isn't big enough and i've flushed it out with other builds so it's gonna take some time to compile and i can't use distcc with it.08:48
Romsteryeah last 2 lines.08:48
cptnyou've never programmed with Qt yourself, have you?08:49
Romstermaybe it's nothing.08:49
Romsterno i just use it with programs.08:49
Romsteri've messed with gtk a little never with qt08:49
cptnokay; it's harmless08:49
cptnthat's the output of Qt's moc (meta object compiler) when run on a class which doesn't use Qt's magic signals and slots08:50
Romstergood, i just wanted to make sure.08:50
Romsteri'm being cautious.08:50
cptn$ echo :> /tmp/test.h08:51
cptn]$ moc /tmp/test.h08:51
cptnwill give you this output08:51
cptnalso happened in your build08:51
Romsterah this time i got it sdtout piping to a file but not stderr so that's why i saw it as clear as day now.08:52
Romsterand not burried in the text.08:52
Romsterwasn't the best way to pipe i forgot about stderr08:57
Romsteractually i think dbus should be in as it's now with qt4 and not as a separate add on.08:58
Romsteralthough if it's on the system already it'll be used.08:59
cptnthe default is that qt's dbus library will NOT link to libdbus08:59
cptnbut dlopen it08:59
cptnat runtime08:59
Romsterso it's ok without adding it then.09:00
Romsteri thought it would link to it.09:00
cptnthere's a configure option to link, but it's not the default09:00
Romsterso loks like so far so good.09:00
Romsterkde4 i think will need that.09:01
Romsterdbus, it won't use it by default in qt4 so it needs to be set to use dbus?09:02
cptndo you know what dlopen does?09:02
Romsterpartly, it's meant to access the library.09:03
Romsterah i re-read your sentence. it will default to dlopen than to link to dbus.09:04
Romsternever mind... i need to slapped over the head.09:05
cptnthe functionality will be the same09:05
cptnit's not linked against it, but loaded at runtim09:05
Romstermuch like how LD_PRELOAD works.09:05
cptnit may however fail to build the dbus stuff completely, if dbus isn't there09:05
cptnsince it includes dbus/dbus.h09:06
Romsterwell i'm gonna find out since i'm building it in a chroot then installing on my system.09:06
cptnokay, let me know how it turns out09:06
cptnI'd expect a footprint missmatch with the dbus stuff missing09:06
Romsterit might not know what version of the lib to run or it might just look for libdbus.so09:07
Romsteror tell me off for not having dbus at compile time.09:07
cptnyeah, any of the three09:07
Romsteri have 6 programs installed that use qt309:07
Romsterthat i'll try with only qt4 and no qt3 installed.09:08
Romsteri'm guessing skype and opera will die.09:08
sepen_hmmm I maintain qca and psi-im dependents on qt4 only09:08
Romsteri can easily switch back but i wanna find out from trying.09:08
cptnRomster: actually, there's an opera build for qt409:09
Romsteratm it's just testing to see if qt4 will work without qt309:09
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Romstercptn, ah.09:09
Romsterthat solves that one.09:09
Romsteri'll try that too.09:09
cptnunless google failed me :-)09:09
Romsterpatch and compile qt4 remove qt3 install qt4 and pray everything works.09:10
Romsteri'm expecting some breakage.09:10
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sepen_well I'll try at night on my safe-env09:11
cptnsepen_: are they qt4 or qt3?09:11
cptnthe ports09:11
Romsterbut as cptn knows it's a good way to learn is to try.09:11
Romstermight think i'm nuts doing what i'm doing too :P~09:12
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sepen_cptn, I mean that I can test my qca and psi-im (only qt4 dependent ports) on my safe-env09:12
sepen_safe environment like a fresh install09:12
cptnah, okay, they should be fine09:12
Romsterah they should work the altered paths.09:12
sepen_and later report results here09:12
Romstermight have to correct there paths to were to look for qt09:13
sepen_Romster, is this qt4 port on your repo?09:13
cptnRomster: why?09:13
Romsterif it gets changed in opt.09:13
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Romsterit's the one in opt that cptn now maintains.09:13
sepen_with the patch?09:13
Romstercptn, to see if we can get rid of qt3 entirely.09:13
Romsterthat one in the paste bin ^09:13
cptndidn't you listen before?09:14
cptnthere's no way you can ever do that09:14
sepen_qt3 should be maintained yet09:14
Romsteryes some will depend on qt3 library they can use the non-dynamic versions.09:14
Romsteror supply a qt3 library like how libstdc++-compat does for different versions.09:15
cptnsepen_: qt3 and qt4 will stay as is09:15
cptnmaybe /usr/bin/qmake et all will change to come from qt409:15
cptn(currently qt3)09:15
cptnthat's it09:15
Romsterbut the open source programs i have on my pc might compile against the qt3compat module if i'm lucky.09:16
cptnif your ports worked with qt4 before, they should still work09:16
cptnRomster: okay, let me repeat it slowly for you09:16
cptnRomster: there is no source compatibility09:16
cptnRomster: programs written for Qt3 need porting09:16
sepen_atm gtk1 and gtk2 aren't equivalents but you can have both installed without problems, I think qt3 and qt4 should have this feature too09:16
cptnsepen_: works fine in parallel09:16
Romsterhmm true...09:17
sepen_and also qt4 only installed?09:17
cptnsepen_: qt4 apps will work with only qt4 installed09:17
cptnbut qt3 apps won't09:17
sepen_ok Ill do my own tests09:17
cptncd /tmp/09:17
sepen_cptn, well this ins't a issue imho09:17
Romsterqt4 in opt works with qt3 installed. i'm trying a qt4 only install. and anything that requires qt3 i'll find out.09:17
Romstermight be we will never see the end of qt3 like we still got glibc1 and gtk109:18
cptnRomster: I assume you have some knowledge of C/C++, right?09:18
Romstera little.09:18
sepen_cptn, also i.e. qca don't build with only qt309:18
Romsterenough to patch lines and do some basics09:18
cptndo you think that code that has "#include <qscrollview.h>" (qt3) will still work09:18
cptnif qt4 doesn't have this file?09:18
cptnbut only q3scrollview.h?09:19
Romsterah no... it'll say missing file and die at compile.09:19
cptnso how exactly do you think your qt3 apps will build?09:19
Romsteri might not be understanding everything but i know i'm not dumb either :)09:19
Romsterthey wont... so it's either find qt4 only apps or i'm stuck to using qt3 and qt4 together.09:20
Romsterbut you also said you'd like to get rid of them for loops... might be imposable.09:21
cptnRomster: there's only a static opera for qt409:21
cptnRomster: sure, just change bindir of qt3 to /usr/share/qt09:22
cptnand remove them from qt409:22
cptnthen, legacy qt3 apps will have to run /usr/share/qt/bin/qmake09:22
cptnwhich is a minor thing, considering that they'll fade away09:22
cptnyeah, no dbus -> footprint mismatch09:23
Romsterthere new download crap on the site is crap... no idea where you found that...09:24
Romstercptn, oh yes... why didn't i think of that.09:24
cruxbot[opt.git]: use bz2 download in qt409:25
cruxbot[opt.git]: remove spaces from dependency lines in qt4's Pkgfile09:25
cruxbot[opt.git]: qt4: add dbus as dependency09:25
Romsterused to be able to see on the site dunno whos the bright spark who changed that.09:25
Romsterspaces... ugh i thought you were removing the commas.09:26
cptnnevermind, the message is wrong09:26
Romsteryou prefer cooas?09:26
cptnthe commas are gone09:26
Romsterlol you got yourself confused.09:27
Romsterso i need to compile with dbus present :P09:27
* Romster restarts the compile.09:27
Romsteryeah so just make qt3 move it's bindir and i can have qt4 as the main qt on my system brilliant.09:29
Romsterand later it can be dropped.09:29
Romsterwe hope.09:30
Romstermight linger like gtk1 too.09:30
Romsterthanks for that long discussion cptn hope i wasn't a pain.09:30
Romstermade me more aware.09:30
sepen_sometimes could be useful something like 'gl-select' script for switch to selection09:31
sepen_*to your09:31
Romsterthat's for mesa3d to ati/nvidia..09:31
Romstersometimes i think the opengl part of mesa3d shouldn't be compiled if one is gonna use binary drivers but i guess it's good to have it there as a backup.09:32
Romsterin case binary driver explodes or something :P09:32
sepen_well was only an example09:34
Romstercptn, well from all this we both and maybe others that reads this understands this a lot more now.09:35
Romstercptn, are you taking over qt3 as well?09:36
Romstereck just noticed my prefix was wrong nto ment to be /usr but /usr/share/qt09:38
* Romster fixes and restarts compile again thank goodness for ccache.09:38
cptnRomster: not sure yet09:41
cptnI'll have to talk to Simone, I've quickly glanced over the port but didn't understand some of the patches09:42
cptnbut I could probably maintain a second port :-)09:42
Romsterlooks like a beast as it is now.09:56
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Romsterhmm it still has references to X11R6 -I/usr/X11R6/include eh don't care to mess with where it finds that.10:09
Romstercould be something on the system already.10:10
cptnin the pkg-config files10:10
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cptnthat's what pitillo reported earlier today,10:10
Romsteryeah i got 3 *.pc files that have that in it.10:11
cptnI expect that I could set that before actually building10:11
Romsterimlib libunicapgtk and qt-mt10:11
cptnsince the .pc files are generated10:11
Romsterit's probably calling one of the .pc files.10:12
cptnso I expect this will need some testing, for which I didnt' have time for10:12
Romsterso far my safe-build chroot is clean of X11R6 so it has to be in qt4 somewhere.10:13
tilmanmaybe the paths need to be changed to /usr/X1110:13
Romsteri can do the testing.10:13
cptnI can do the testing too10:14
cptnI'll just only commit it once I get it right10:14
Romsterthere is no /usr/X11 though there is /usr/include/X11 and /usr/lib/X1110:14
cptnwhich really should be /usr/lib10:14
Romstercptn, ya.10:14
Romstermain libs go into /usr/lib10:14
tilmanthere's no *libraries* in /usr/lib/libX11, so it doesn't matter much10:14
Romsterapp-defaults  Cards  config  fonts  Options  Xcms.txt  xinit10:15
Romsterjust other bits so ah that line can be mmoited since -L/usr/lib is the standared and pkg-config removes that anyways.10:15
cptnno libraries indeed10:15
Romsterso we don't even need that path.10:16
Romsteronly the /usr/include/X11 that seems to find it on it's own.10:16
tilmanof course10:16
Romsteri guess put it on your bored todo list cptn10:17
tilmanbecause they try to include "X11/foo.h", which is easily found10:17
Romsteror jsut sed the *.pc files.10:17
Romsteri should of known that d'oh...10:17
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Romsterhmm i think my qt4 patch did a good job of nuking that.. X11R610:19
Romsterand that sed line you did should get them all..10:22
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Romstereh it works..10:22
Romster that download meter is going in sanse.10:26
tilmani love how epdfview says "encrypted document" and asks for a password when you try to open a file that doesn't exist10:35
Romsterencrypted null10:37
sepen_ohh simple cross platform webbrowser
sepen_just nice port for testing on qt4
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thrice`that looks pretty good10:39
Romsterthat... bear is humping the planet.10:41
Romsterqt and webkit.10:42
Romsternice find sepen_ you plan to port it?10:42
Romstercool let me know when ya done i'll install and try it too.10:43
sepen_sounds a good candidate to port and test with the new qt4 ideas10:43
sepen_Im looking for candidates10:43
Romsterah i see.10:43
Romsterwell that is a nice find and webkit.10:44
Romsterwonder how it would hold out to the w3c and the acid test.10:44
cptnarora works fine10:44
cptnI used it to test the port10:44
Romsterso you got a package of it made?10:45
cptnnot yet10:45
cptnbuild from git10:45
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tilmannipuL: where's your haskell program to parse /var/lib/pkg/db again?10:47
tilmani'd like to read some real world code :D10:48
* Romster wonders why you are learning haskell10:48
tilmanbecause i've come to like math, and it seems like an interesting language, and also because it will be part of an exam in a few weeks ;)10:49
Romstera  polymorphically statically typed, lazy, purely functional  language10:49
Romsterthat is one hell of a sentence.10:50
tilmanit's not a sentence :D10:50
Romstera extract from a sentence then.10:50
tilmani think i decided that haskell deserved some attention when i read the definition of 'map10:50
aonyes, add two words and it is a sentence10:51
Romsterfwee i'm right :P thanks aon.10:51
tilmanmap f xs = [ f x | x <- xs ] <310:51
Romsterok very algebra heavy language.10:51
cptnis <3 part of the statement?10:52
tilmanRomster: dunno whether you could say that10:52
tilmancptn: that's almost a valid question :)10:52
tilman<- is the equivelant of the small epsilon in whatsthename10:53
tilmanset theory10:54
Romsterwell at least you arn't learning brainfuck i can never understand that language.10:55
aonbrainfuck is simple10:56
Romsteri get so far then i get a headache.10:56
aonit only has eight(?) instructions10:57
tilmanfakeroot pkgmk  3060.07s user 1196.35s system 135% cpu 52:13.71 total10:58
tilman^^^ ghc build on my desktop10:59
Romstermaybe i'll try it again sometime when i get bored.10:59
tilmanRomster: brainfuck is mostly pointless...10:59
Romstertrue it's a novelty10:59
RotwangHaving only 8 instructions, the language is easy to learn, yet hard to master (and it's practically impossible to write a useful program, despite what Turing might say).11:00
Romstertrue it's a novelty language.11:00
Romsterpurely for fun.11:00
Rotwangnever  heard about brainfuck until now ;]11:00
RomsterRotwang, yeah it's quite the craziest language out there.11:00
Romsterand i just find this and am suprised C++ is beating C by a 'smigen'11:01
sepen_Romster, thats a typical message? $ qmake11:02
sepen_Project ERROR: Use the qmake include with Qt4.4 or greater, on Debian that is qmake-qt411:02
sepen_after executing qmake-qt4 all are ok11:03
surrounderRomster: tsk, braincode is for pussies :P
surrounderor this one is also funny:
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Rotwangincredible what ideas bored programmers can have11:12
surrounderhehe indeed11:12
cruxbot[contrib.git]: x11vnc: Updated md5sum (they changed the code without bumping the version)11:13
cruxbot[contrib.git]: Merge branch '2.4' of crux:/home/crux/scm/ports/contrib into 2.411:13
tilmanalan isn't here, too bad11:14
sepen_who made that11:14
sepen_nobody advise alan about contrib-test.git?11:15
sepen_we need a contrib secretary :)11:15
sepen_alan, git log, git log, git log ...11:16
sepen_well time to going to home, later!11:21
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Romstersurrounder, i didn't know that one whitespace...11:25
Romsterugh alan didn't rebase...11:25
RomsterRotwang, i'd say them languages come out of bordom.11:28
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aonse on juur prc-107712:10
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cruxbot[contrib.git]: fix mail format in Pkgfiles12:48
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cruxbot[opt.git]: qt4: remove X11R6 from pkg-config files12:57
mike_kdoes anyone have issues with and firefox?13:13
cptnI just fixed the error though13:15
cptn(css error)13:16
mike_kcptn: thanks13:16
mike_kmy firefox just looses stylesheets and pictures here and there13:16
teKIE 7/8 executes code here and there *g*13:21
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sepencptn, css error still appears13:32
sepensee :ports: after switching between menu links13:33
sepenalso I experienced the same result for the FS page, the header have differents menu sizes13:34
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cptnsepen: yeah, they're separate sheets13:40
cptnnote that ports/FS is not the wiki13:40
cptnso that shouldn't case mike_k's problems13:40
cptnas for the inconsistent CSS files, there's a bug already, so I'll leave that for the time being13:41
mike_kI guess that css just triggered my firefox bug. Now stylesheet look ok, but it displays random images instead of original ones. o_013:43
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sepencptn, hmm13:47
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sepenRotwang, did you test your plib dependent ports?14:29
Rotwangsepen: sorry i didnt have time yet14:30
sepenoh np14:30
sepenjust I'm curious14:30
Rotwangsepen: probably later, at night14:30
Rotwangim redesigning my personal site right now ;]14:31
Rotwangwhat do you think about new layout?
sepenyeah I want another one14:35
sepenbut would be better if you use css pages14:36
Rotwangprobably, but i dont care too much, im not going to learn css ;]14:37
sepenor just use php with some vars for autogenerate your contents14:41
Rotwangnot going to learn php either :D, there are tools that can do it for me, like source-highlight and asciidoc :P14:44
Rotwangim too lazy14:44
Rotwangi preffer to learn brainfuck and whitespace ;]14:47
cruxbot[opt.git]: qt4: remove unnecessary sed14:51
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spaceninjahow similar is crux compared with freebsd?15:20
RedShiftspaceninja: install it and find out15:22
spaceninjaI'll virtualize it instead15:23
mike_kspaceninja: you can get a basic idea after reading a few pages from CRUX handbook15:54
spaceninjaI haven't tried freebsd either16:05
spaceninjait's either freebsd or crux16:05
spaceninjaor stay with arch16:06
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spaceninjaI'm looking for the most "pendatic" distro with the biggest quality repos.16:09
Rotwangthats crux!16:10
Rotwangquality is our second name16:10
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jesse_quality > quantity.16:17
teKthat's mathemathical nonsense *g*16:18
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jesse_teK: that was not mathematics :>16:37
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spaceninjais there any documentation in the cd?17:00
DarkNekroshi everybody ;)17:01
teKspaceninja: /crux/handbook.txt17:02
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teKpredatorfreak: new MD5 sum for firefox-flash-plugin17:04
spaceninja´╗┐teK: There's no /crux directory17:05
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teKmy last installation was yonks ago, sorry, look at the CD yourself :)17:11
spaceninjashould I make a new /etc/rc.d/net file by pasting the dhcp client script?17:27
spaceninjaif I want dhcp17:27
Rotwangspaceninja: look at the handbook17:30
Rotwangeverything's explained there17:31
spaceninjaEdit /etc/rc.d/net, /etc/hosts and /etc/resolv.conf to configure your network (ip-address/gateway/hostname/domain/dns).17:31
spaceninjabut when I looked a bit further down, I could see an example17:32
spaceninjaof a dhcp script file17:32
spaceninjawell, how am I suppose to know how to edit /mnt/var/etc/rc.d/net with a dhcp configuration without knowing that there is an example at the bottom of the manual?17:36
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spaceninjadid I miss something?17:36
jaegerisn't that what the manual's for? I'm confused with this conversation17:36
spaceninjame to :)17:38
nipuLi'm sorry, did you want someone to hold your hand?17:38
jaegerwell, if you found an example, try it and see if it's satisfactory17:38
sepen_spaceninja, did you read all documentation from
sepen_I think you can find all you need in these documents, if not please expose your problem17:39
spaceninjaI guess I'm too tired to do this now, I think I've missed some steps17:42
spaceninjahaha, I've installed everything in /mnt/var, lol I'm stupid :)17:42
spaceninjabut the good news is that I'm virtualizing the installation17:43
spaceninjano real harm done17:43
jaegerhandy :)17:49
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predatorfreakteK: Damn flash and I'm back.18:20
predatorfreakteK: Didn't change here.18:22
predatorfreakand it wasn't cached by squid, so, might wanna verify the integrity of the tarball you got.18:23
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cruxbot[contrib.git]: crashtest: new port19:09
cruxbot[contrib.git]: stormbaancoureur: new port19:09
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ddr4hey i was thinking about working on some local ports, just woundering what protocol do i use ie httpup,rsync for /etc/ports20:12
sepen_test both of them, see also public documentation in, there are a howto for setting up each one20:14
ddr4ohk so for URL: should just be my local dir ?20:15
ddr4if httpip20:16
sepen_ohh local dir, I missunderstood sorry20:16
sepen_but you don't need a file driver for local repos20:16
sepen_just add a prtdir line to your prt-get.conf20:17
ddr4ha simple as that thanks sepen_20:17
sepen_yeah, also be sure you have the right order you want20:17
sepen_read carefully prt-get.conf(5)20:18
ddr4yea. ill get on it now. thx again20:18
sepen_you're welcome20:19
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LithiumFXHey everyone20:58
LithiumFXI was wondering if anyone has experience of a lockup occuring when exiting X using the xf86-video-intel driver20:58
LithiumFXI've spent hours - downgraded, used patches, tried the old i810 driver20:59
LithiumFXThe only thing that works is the vesa driver, which is very slow20:59
LithiumFXI think it is an xserver problem20:59
sepen_did you setup your kernel to use the correct driver?20:59
sepen_Im  runnign the same port here without problems21:00
ryuoyou mean the DRI driver for the kernel?21:00
ryuoLithiumFX: could be that you need the proper DRI driver21:00
LithiumFXI'll have a look, any pointers?21:00
ryuoand the proper agp driver21:00
ryuoif applicable21:00
LithiumFXWhen I exit X I either get a black screen or one with purple/white lines21:00
LithiumFXThe chipset is an Intel 950GMA21:01
sepen_Im using this one21:01
ryuoonly a module?21:02
* ryuo shrugs.21:02
LithiumFXI have that built in21:02
LithiumFXThe i810 driver and newer driver used to work21:02
LithiumFXI've updated the installed ports and now I've got problems21:02
LithiumFXI've exhausted everything I've found online21:03
ryuoregression perhaps?21:03
LithiumFXIt seems like it's something to do with xorg-xserver21:03
sepen_are you sure?21:03
LithiumFXThe Intel drivers work great until you exit X. Do you know of anything that changed in relation to Intel cards with 2.6.2521:04
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ryuoLithiumFX: you could just read the freakin changelog.21:05
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ryuoof 2.6.24->2.6.2421:05
LithiumFXryuo, good point sorry21:05
sepen_LithiumFX, no ideas about that, but I suggest you to mail this problem to the crux mailing list too, maybe with your log as attached files21:06
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LithiumFXsepen, I'll send the information when I get chance21:06
sepen_yeah, but sounds really strange you problem21:07
sepen_why you think its a xorg problem? if you close the server it return with errors?21:07
LithiumFXGoogling turns up various rollback suggestions or xorg.conf options21:08
LithiumFXI've tried everything I've found, including building custom ports21:08
ryuoreminds me of my xorg crashes when i switched to virtual consoles ;)21:09
LithiumFXPlus, the problem has only started since upgrading xorg and its components21:09
LithiumFXThe Xorg.log doesn't list anything, and in terms of on-screen errors exiting X gives a hard lockup21:09
LithiumFX something similar21:10
sepen_well, tilman maintains the all the xorg repository, but  its too later for asking21:13
LithiumFXIt might be the kernel to be fair, since I've upgraded X and jumped to .25 at the same time21:13
sepen_here 04:1321:13
LithiumFXOne hour back here :P21:13
LithiumFXBeen messing with this since 20:0021:13
sepen_well try tomorrow21:13
LithiumFXYeah, I'll come back then21:13
sepen_I think could be useful21:14
LithiumFXThanks for your help. I'll send you an e-beer.21:14
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sepen_LithiumFX, I need more  than a beer21:14
* LithiumFX sends e-CameronDiaz21:14
sepen_smoking something ....21:14
sepen_thats better21:14
LithiumFXTake care21:14
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ryuoyou insensitive clod! its night here :-(21:39
mwansaheheh :D21:39
ryuoslashdot reference <_<21:39
mwansaapparently that dates back to 1986 from a commic strip called Calvin and Hobbes21:42
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Romsteri hate it when the power goes out on me.21:57
ryuoRomster: power company like playin pranks on you? ;)21:59
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ryuoRomster: btw, i crafted a new pekwm theme if you care to take a look:
Romsternah i think this strong wind had something to do with shorting out a power line. but that's my assumption.22:01
Romsterah neat i'm still on pekwm too.22:01
Romstersmall fast and does just what i needed.22:01
Romsterstill haven't found the panel i like yet22:01
Romstergonna try out barpanel when i figure out how that works.22:01
Romsteralready ported it in my private repo.22:02
ryuodid you check out the theme I ported? ;)22:03
ryuoi found a particular gtk theme that works well with it22:04
ryuoits part of my distros gtk murrine engine pack22:04
ryuoi also found a neat little app for displaying iconified windows as icons on the root window22:05
ryuocalled backstep22:05
ryuojeez, pekwm uses a lot less ram than openbox...22:12
ryuo0.4-0.5% of my max ram on average for pekwm22:13
ryuoRomster: you tried light-monitor before?22:26
Romsteri will now i was waiting for my firefox to load.22:33
Romsterhmm no.22:38
ryuoRomster: 0.3.1 is the latest now ;)22:40
Romsteri only made that not that the other day....22:41
Romsterand i haven't done my ck4up round yet :)22:42
* Romster updates22:43
Romsterpekwm is nice on older hardware.22:43
ryuodid you take a look at IceQua? ;)22:45
Romsteri haven't installed yet but i got the page open.22:54
ryuodo you like it at all?22:54
Romsteri'm just getting my player and shit all working again, i really do need a UPS.22:54
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Romsteri like them buttons for the close maximise etc.22:55
ryuoi ported all the buttons the original had22:55
ryuomaximize, close, minimize, and the window menu list button22:56
ryuo(defined as ShowMenu window)22:56
ryuodoesnt integrate seamlessly like it does in icewm, but its close enough22:56
Romsterah thats the list button on the left.22:56
ryuofeel free to remove it or tweak its functions22:57
ryuoi did find a neat program for controling the window manager through the EWMH interface22:58
ryuocalled wmctrl22:58
ryuoworks with any window manager supporting EWMH22:58
Romsterthere i go got the theme.22:59
Romsterlove how easy it is to change themes in pekwm23:00
ryuoyea i noticed pekwm doesnt need to restart23:00
ryuofor it23:00
ryuobut i usually do it just to flush the cache, etc.23:00
ryuomake sure its working properly from a restart23:01
Romstershould take a look at deco man that's a cool tool it'll extract all files without hassle.23:01
ryuoi've also started using xscreensaver23:01
Romsteri have xscreensaver :)23:01
Romsternice program arn't it23:01
ryuoa neat way to enable support for monitor power management and23:01
ryuohave a screensaver23:01
ryuoi run it with splash screen disabled :-p23:02
ryuoi get tired of it coming up whenever i log in XD23:02
Romsterrss-glx has extra screensavers too.23:02
Romsternice -n 19 xscreensaver -no-splash &23:02
ryuotoo bad theres not many panels with a systray23:02
Romsternot sure on barpanel yet.23:03
ryuoi tested out jwm earlier, and its kinda nice, but i ditched it, despite its nice flexibility.23:03
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ryuoits theming sucks23:03
ryuoall you can do is change the colors23:03
Romsterhave to get it working fbpanel i kinda like but hate and pypanel has the best features i like more.23:03
ryuoi hate pypanel, i never could get it to raise AND focus and iconified window in one pass.23:04
Romsterbut both do not meet my requirements.23:04
Romsterah i didn't bother altering that but i don't think that would be hard todo.23:04
ryuoit always raised it, but was no focused23:04
ryuo(i'm used to some behavior from windows, so...)23:04
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ryuokinda hard to shake from it...23:05
ryuoits what i've grown used to23:05
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ryuoi also tried out sawfish, pretty nice23:05
ryuovery flexible, a GUI for configuring a lot of it23:05
ryuootherwise you can customize it easily if you know lisp23:05
ryuoi learned enough lisp to customize the root meny :->23:06
ryuoif you dont mind having to learn a little lisp to do some hacking, its pretty nice.23:07
Romstersurely it's not hard todo that in one pass looking at pypanelrc23:07
ryuoI tried.23:07
ryuodidnt get anywhere23:07
ryuogave up23:07
Romsteri'm gonna have a go at it.23:07
ryuoif you figure it out, let me know.23:07
* Romster has an idea.23:07
Romstersure will.23:07
ryuoso how is the IceQua theme?23:08
ryuoi use it with Verdana myself23:08
Romsterthe menu could be made smaller23:08
Romsterroot right click menu is huge.23:09
ryuothen tweak the font23:09
ryuoit defaults to size 12 i believe23:09
ryuowhich is fine for me23:09
ryuoits just large enough to be readable23:09
ryuofor me23:09
Romsterare you partly blind even your blue theme had a smaller menu.23:09
ryuoits easier to read for me when i'm running on half empty23:10
ryuoi decided i prefer a setup i can read no matter what23:10
ryuofor some reason, my distros gimp does not like xpms :-p23:10
ryuoso i convert to png if i need to use them in gimp23:11
ryuofor all practical purposes, png is the same as xpm pretty much just compressed...23:11
ryuoor so it feels23:11
Romsterwhere is the font settings in the theme?23:13
ryuoSee $FONT in the theme file?23:13
Romstercan't see it in the theme files.23:13
ryuothat controls the main font used throughout23:13
ryuoits defined at the top23:14
ryuoif you like Verdana, you could just add23:14
Romster"Verdana" no size set and your royale hasn't got a $FONT var.23:14
ryuoor something to disable it23:14
ryuoshrink it23:14
ryuoit uses XFT23:14
ryuoi know my royale kinda sucks :-p23:15
Romsternow that's better.23:15
ryuothat should work23:16
ryuoman i find XFT useful23:16
ryuojust wish i knew how to use it in xterm23:16
ryuoif its even available23:16
Romstermust be the default font royal uses is smaller than my Verdana default font size.23:16
ryuoVerdana defaults to size 12 i believe23:16
Romsteri'd advise seting a sane value in that and maybe revamp your royal i like royal just neaten it up a bit.23:17
mwansaxft + urxvt ftw :P23:17
Romsterwhat font would royal be using?23:17
ryuoi think i used fixed with it23:17
Romsterwonder what size.23:17
ryuocheck the theme file23:17
Romsterroyal has no $FONT :P23:17
ryuoits hard coded23:18
Romsteri'd have to look in xft or somehting?23:18
ryuointo it23:18
ryuoyou can change it manually23:18
ryuopekwm doesn't require variables23:18
ryuoin themes23:18
ryuoits just available as an option23:18
Romsterthat should be fixed so it's not hard coded :)23:18
ryuoRomster: technically not hardcoded23:18
Romstercare to revamp royal a bit?23:18
Romsterjust hidden :P23:18
ryuoyou can change it yourself if you want23:18
ryuoi'll see what i can do though23:19
Romsterk would you update the site if i send you a cleaned up theme file?23:19
ryuoyea i can do that23:19
ryuodiff patch would be nice ;)23:19
ryuodiff -ur :-)23:19
ryuolet me see what you changed23:19
Romsterk i can do that for ya -pruN i usually use.23:20
Romsterhaven't touched yet about too :P23:20
Romsterah i see it it's fixed with no default size set.23:20
RomsterFixed must have a smaller size set than Verdana23:21
* ryuo nods.23:21
ryuoit also tends to look uglier at larger font sizes23:21
Romsterno wonder my menu was huge.23:21
Romsteryeah i like it small but just big enough to read if i really try, as the rest of the time i know what position the item is i want.23:22
Romstersize 8 seems about right for me.23:22
Romstermaybe 9 if ya want less eye strain.23:22
ryuoyou can also try size 9-1123:22
ryuothey arent that much bigger23:22
Romsteri did.23:22
ryuosize 12 is a big leap23:22
Romsteryeah seems to be logarithmic small changes get to 12+ and it changes by heaps.23:23
ryuoi think i've finally decided what sub-notebook to get ;)23:23
Romsterwonder if it can take like 11.5 decimal values.23:23
ryuothe upcoming msi wind with a somewhat high battery life.23:23
ryuoa quoted 6 hours i believe23:23
Romsterthat's quite good.23:23
ryuofor x86? hell yes.23:24
ryuoheck yea :-)23:24
ryuointel atom though23:24
Romsterbut at what running conditions i'd make sure i bet that's the max even less at high loads.23:24
* ryuo shrugs.23:24
ryuoit uses a non-SSD though.23:24
Romsteryou know what the marketers are like :P23:24
RomsterSSD drive would be a nice feature.23:25
ryuomsi wind specs known right now23:25
ryuolowest priced unit is $400 with linux 3 cell battery23:25
ryuo$550 windows xp with 6 cell23:25
Romstertrench has made some ports and changes to reduce wake up calls and log to ram and less disk accessing until there is a decent memory buffer of data to be wrote at once than lots of small hdd accesses.23:26
ryuonot like that mutters much on a non-SSD?23:26
ryuorumored to launch june 323:27
ryuostill would have prefered a SSD, its pretty much better than the old hard drive with only a problem with capacity/write limit23:28
Romster1024 X 600 hmmz not even 76823:29
ryuoi noticed23:29
ryuounusual resolution23:29
ryuoits like 800x48023:29
ryuobut at least itis higher23:29
Romsteri never tried that resolution23:29
ryuoGMA 950... guaranteed support there23:29
ryuoRAMs pretty good23:30
Romstergig of ram hope you can fit a extra stick if you plan todo anything that requires a lot of ram.23:30
ryuoi think you can but not sure23:30
Romstersd card slot that's a neat idea.23:30
Romsterhaven't seen them on laptops before.23:31
ryuothe other option is this, if VIA is any good...23:31
ryuotheir common on these UMPC notebooks23:31
RomsterBuilt-in camera O_o23:31
ryuolinux *does* have support for them23:31
ryuoalso, HP2133 is available in multiple variances23:32
RomsterAvailable in Pink, Black and White. *coughs*23:32
ryuomostly varing is hard drive capacity, CPU, and ram23:32
ryuoRomster: whats so funny about that? :)23:32
Romsteri can't stand pink :)23:33
ryuoi've heard that VIAs newer binary drivers from chrome9 work better but23:33
Romsterhmm the via has gigabit lan and a biger hdd.23:33
ryuotheir still restricted to suse enterprise and ubuntu23:33
Romsterbiit slower cpu in speed but it might process data the same rate, dunno.23:33
ryuoVIA is somewhat slow...23:33
Romsterthe linux support would be the bigist factor.23:34
ryuoyou can probably get fine support23:34
ryuolemme pull up the page on running ubuntu on HP213323:34
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Romsterwouldn't want to buy a lappy and find out linux works poorly on it.23:34
Romsterso via is a bit slugish?23:35
ryuoRomster: It worked poorly on a everex laptop i bought awhile back23:35
Romsteri know cpu speed in clock cycles isn't all there to go by on the performance on how many calculations the cpu could perform.23:35
ryuoRomster: but these drivers are newer and i've heard better tales about them23:35
ryuoi tested it before them23:36
ryuothe issues i had were23:36
ryuo1) microphone/headphones ports did not work23:36
ryuo2) i did not have hardware acceleration (i used vesa)23:36
Romster1.6Ghz VIA C7 option23:36
ryuo3) cpu scaling did not appear to work right, but there seems to workaround for that now23:36
Romsterthat may have changed now as you say.23:36
ryuothe integrated speakers worked fine23:37
Romstergotta have 3.23:37
ryuoi wouldnt care about that but23:37
ryuothe user did23:37
Romsterstrange the speakers worked but not the headphones..23:37
ryuoits a bug in the driver23:37
Romsterin selecting what to use.23:37
Romsteri bet they nailed that bug by now.23:38
ryuoit worked fine after i installed windows so23:38
ryuosome problem with the alsa driver23:38
ryuoi ended up installing windows for the user23:38
ryuosince its not for my use23:38
ryuowiped windows vista23:38
ryuodecided win2k or xp is a better choice23:38
Romsteri would shudder that that but yeah throw winblows on it and say go :P23:38
Romsterxp i think.23:38
ryuowin 2k supported the hardware23:39
ryuobelieve it or not23:39
ryuoall except the modem23:39
ryuo56k modem23:39
ryuoi havent used one of those things in years23:39
Romstervista on a lappy is more insane than vista on a desktop pc. it would reduce the battery time i would think.23:39
ryuoprobably like 6?23:39
ryuoRomster: not too much, but...23:39
ryuowinxp works better on VIA c723:39
ryuowin2k even better23:39
ryuowin2k only uses about 50 mbs of ram23:40
ryuovs XPs 100 ish23:40
Romsteri'm keep to see ReactOS on a laptop when it's ready.23:40
ryuogood luck with that23:40
ryuoreactos may never become any good23:40
Romsteri dunno.23:40
Romsterwine and reactos share there code.23:40
Romsteri wont hold my breath but for the windows users ReactOS would be a good alternative.23:41
Romsteri would use linux though <<23:41
ryuodont expect a lot of VIA's graphics23:42
Romsterhmm that via has a better screen res too.23:42
ryuotheir probably at about the same level of intels23:42
Romsterah yeah via doesn't have decent hardware acceleration23:42
ryuoi tried it under windows xp23:43
ryuochrome 923:43
Romsterintel is best for integrated graphics.23:43
ryuoand it ran warcraft3 without much trouble23:43
ryuobut i wouldnt expect much for better stuff23:43
Romsterit's meant to be low power usage so that limits performance.23:43
ryuoduh :-p23:44
Romstercan't have both so they strike a balance.23:44
ryuoi also found a 12" laptop from HP that seems interesting23:44
Romsterlooked up the linux hardware sites?23:44
Romstermight have some info on them models23:44
ryuoits amd turion powered23:45
ryuowhich i thought was interesting23:45
ryuoit uses integrated nvidia23:45
ryuoi'm like "so what if it ships windows"23:45
ryuoi can just wipe it23:45
ryuoi heard this model gets about 3 hours or so23:46
Romster250GB that's a decent hdd in a laptop.23:50
Romsterhmm be from using nvidia 3 hours isn't a lot but you can also use a extra batter that can sit under the laptop23:51
Romsterdepends how much time you need away from the mains.23:51
ryuoi betcha powernow-k8 probably works with turion too23:52
ryuoif you want scaling23:52
ryuoheh, i use powernow-k8 and cpufreq_ondemand. i figure, why should i use a userspace daemon for this? a module works just fine for this23:54
ryuounderclocking laptops probably a good idea anyway...23:55
ryuohelps cut heat23:55
Romsterand extend battery time.23:56
ryuothat to23:56
ryuoi've also heard batteries eventually lose their capacity quite a bit23:56
ryuobut i'm curious how quickly23:56
Romsterif you are just typing a file or something and don't need the cpu to be going 1.6GHz siting idle.23:56
ryuomy ondemand governor rarely budges from 1 ghz23:57
ryuoonly when i do stuff like compiling23:57
Romstercan you go slower than 1GHz?23:57
ryuoit doesnt let me i think23:57
ryuonot sure23:57
jaegerdepends on the machine23:57
ryuolemme check dmesg23:57
Romsteror would it not let you or it gets too slugish23:57
ryuomy system runs fine at 1 ghz23:57
Romsterjaeger, hi :)23:57
ryuofor regular tasks23:57
jaegerthis amd64 only goes down to 1GHz, one of my other machines will go down to 800MHz23:58
Romsteri mean if you could goto 500mHz and even get more battery life.23:58
ryuopowernow-k8: Found 1 AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4600+ processors (2 cpu cores) (version 2.20.00)23:58
ryuopowernow-k8:    4 : fid 0x2 (1000 MHz), vid 0x1223:58
Romsterand even shut one core down.23:58
ryuothe other settings let me go to 2400, 2200, 2000, 180023:58
Romsterso it's hard set in the cpu for the speed state?23:59
* ryuo shrugs.23:59
Romsterit's C0 - C7 or something for the states?23:59
ryuomy cpu's temperature drops by about 10 degrees23:59
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ryuowhen idling at 1 ghz than if it were at 2.423:59
Romsterwhats it sit on 40C?23:59
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