IRC Logs for #crux Wednesday, 2008-05-21

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rehabdollhttp://www.funny-city.com/cartoons/spyroom.jpg00:30
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pitilloood morning01:15
pitilloodd? brbrbr good :)01:16
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mwansalol morning pitillo02:11
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cruxbot[opt.git]: mutt: update to 1.5.1803:22
cruxbot[opt.git]: stunnel: update to 4.2403:22
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sepenhey03:52
Rotwanghi03:53
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cruxbot[core.git]: gawk: don't remove gawk helper progs needed by awk function-libraries, fix FS#28104:05
f1ygood morning04:06
sepenmorning04:06
sepenO_o /usr/ports/opt/firefox-java-plugin05:09
sepenFATAL opt/firefox-java-plugin .. file not found: .footprint05:09
sepen@seen _Viper05:10
clbsepen: I have not seen _Viper.05:10
Rotwangin my opinin .footprints shouldbe mostly used for debugging ports05:11
Rotwangopinion05:11
Rotwangi have them disabled by default05:11
Rotwang:X05:11
sepenRotwang, footprint files are part of crux05:11
pitillo:?05:11
Rotwangreally?05:12
Rotwang<_<05:12
Rotwangdisabled in pkgmk.conf05:12
sepenpffff05:12
pitilloxD05:12
Rotwangthey differ too frequently05:12
sepenthen use -if05:12
pitilloor -uf05:12
sepenbut not for all ports lol05:12
Rotwangbut for port maintainers they are very useful05:12
sepen...05:13
sepenRotwang, did you use prtverify?05:13
pitillobut I think footprints are very usefull to track maintainer's work in a port and to see diffs between maintainer's systems and mine (in my case)05:13
pitilloRotwang, not only for maintainers...05:13
Rotwangsepen: yes i do05:13
sepenso prtverify uses footprint's05:14
Rotwangthats my point05:14
Rotwangto see whats wrong with footprint etc etc ===> debuging ports05:14
Rotwangbut for end user its not that useful05:14
Rotwangexcept prt-get fsearch05:14
Rotwangit's only my opinion05:16
sepenRomster, its useful for both imho05:16
sepenRomster, sorry a new <tab>tab05:16
sepenRotwang, ^^05:16
Rotwangsepen: its usefull for both but not equally05:16
pitilloRotwang, for the user too, he can check if he has all the needed for a port (not MISSING files) or if he has more ports than the maintaner (NEW files) do you think this isn't usefull?05:17
Rotwangthats why i disabed footprints in pkgmk.conf but use them to debug ports05:17
sepenyeah but maintainers must provide .footprint files, just its all Im saying05:17
sepens/Im/I05:17
Rotwangsepen: i do agree05:17
Rotwangfootprints should be provided05:17
sepenso I report this: <sepen> FATAL opt/firefox-java-plugin .. file not found: .footprint05:18
sepenthats the point05:18
Rotwangpitillo: i dont care too much about that05:18
Rotwangif maintainer built certain thing without gtk and i built it with gtk then footprints wil differ05:19
Rotwangwill05:19
sepenor this another one:05:19
sepenERROR opt/eclipse-sdk .......... variable not found: source05:19
pitilloRotwang, true, then you see that the footprint mistmatch gives you NEW files, then there is no problem to use -uf05:20
Rotwangpitillo: but really as the end user i dont need to know that05:20
pitilloRotwang, are you sure?05:21
pitilloxD05:21
pitillobtw, you can do what you want, I prefer to check footprint mistmatch to tell the maintainer if I see something bad05:21
Rotwangi have disabled footprint and newer had problems with it :P05:21
RomsterRotwang, http://crux.nu/bugs/index.php?do=details&task_id=22105:22
Rotwangpitillo: thats the debugging part05:22
Rotwangif i want only to install it .footprint is not that necessary05:22
RotwangRomster: yeah thats something useful05:23
pitilloRotwang, me, like the end user, I like to debug then what I am installing...05:24
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Rotwangpitillo: i understand, youve got some valid points05:26
RotwangRomster: grep '^MISSING   ' $FILE.footprint.diff >/dev/null 2>&1 would be bit faster i think05:29
Rotwangsepen: i didnt mean that you did wrong reporting this error, all i wanted was to show my point of view05:30
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Romstermaybe05:33
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pitillointeresting reading at FS, mike told about "no preferred (documented) way to chroot" and I think the enviroment which sepen and me are using, can be a good start point if someone can take a look05:40
pitilloI think along this day and tomorrow we will try to talk about it in the ML to see if the core members can take a look and comment it, because its first use can be that, to have a clean/minimal and easy way used by all maintaners/packagers to build there their ports and give real/minimal/clean footprints (with the optional/nice to have tag we can avoid the missing mistmatch and we can provide minimal and real footprints)05:43
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sepenpitillo, sure05:59
sepenRotwang, did you test it?05:59
Rotwangsepen: yeah, initially05:59
Rotwangall i did for now was to make image and update it06:01
Rotwangit works very nice06:01
pitillowell, I think it can be used to make more than build test, something like a set of test ("test' battery") to check functionallity too06:01
pitillowell, it can be a good option to mike_k's comment about the unified way to build ports (the problem can be that people can have their own way to make a chroot and make tests there... but it can be a good unified alternative)06:03
sepenpitillo, we need more docs before release it06:04
pitillosepen, we need more eyes looking at it too.... it can be a very good enviroment for CRUX IMHO (and I am quite sure it can be extended in other ways too)06:05
sepenRotwang, also you can use 'prt-clean' for restoring to pre-stored status of installed ports06:05
cptnsepen, pitillo: you could also post the idea/concept to the mailing list06:05
cptnto get some feedback already06:05
cptnwhile the implementation is also important, maybe you can already get a feeling whether people would like this or not06:05
pitillocptn, yes, I told that in the first comment here (I think along today or tomorrow can be good to post it at ML)06:05
Romsteri already build in my safe-build chroot.06:05
pitilloRomster, if you have a bit of time, take a look to it too. Playing with images was a very good idea IMHO06:06
sepencptn, yes I want to post the idea, with my poor english ....06:06
sepenxD06:06
pitillosepen, don't worry, I will review your mail with my poorest english level xD06:07
sepenxD06:07
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sepenwell Im going to eat now, later Ill try to write something06:11
* f1y starts skydiving course tomorrow \o/06:13
Romsterpitillo, sure i'll give it a spin where is it located? or should i wait for the documentation?06:17
Romsterf1y, sweet06:17
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f1ya quick 18-hour course, than first 7 jumps from 1500 meters :]06:19
pitilloRomster, well, if sepen send the message this afternoon he will post the link there (I think you will like it, at least if you don't want to use it, to take parts from it) When you use it there is a little explanation about how to use it, I think the new docs will be some kind of addons or new uses...06:19
pitilloI hope you can review it and comment problems, bugs or features to add/remove06:19
pitilloand if you finally like it and you use it too, we will be glad too06:20
Romsteri might use it i haven't worked on safe-build much more but it is stable and working for me. but i'll try that out and see how it goes when i see that ML06:21
pitilloRomster, perfect :)06:21
Romstersince i got experience i could probably see improvements and stuff easily.06:24
pitilloRomster, yeah and sure you can think in more uses, or find problems/errors too06:26
Romsterprobably.06:27
Romsterunless it's that good now there is no others.06:27
Romsteri'm working on a few other things too.06:28
pitilloRomster, well, this can be a good option and I think it can grow in more ways, that is why I think can be good to be shown to the comunity06:28
Romstertrue.06:29
cruxbot[contrib.git]: libsndfile: 1.0.18pre21 -> 1.0.18pre2206:37
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juehello07:55
teKhi07:55
juesepen: congratulation, you've found a bug in prtverify ;-)07:58
thrice`hi jue08:01
tilmanomfg, my haskell program compiles08:03
tilmanonly took 3 days08:03
tilmanomfg it RUNS08:03
jueteK: please add a --mandir=/usr/man to fluxbox' configure08:04
juetilman: time to switch to darcs :)08:04
teKyes sir08:04
tilmanjue: heh08:05
Romstertilman, 3 days what the hell.08:05
tilmanjue: it's really cool (insane?) that people manage to write such complex applications in such a strange language :)08:05
juehttp://jue.ods.org/gitstats/08:11
tilmancool08:11
tilmandid you write that?08:12
jueno08:12
juehttp://gitstats.sourceforge.net/08:12
tilmanah08:13
Romsterjue, thanks for fixing gawk so fast.08:17
juenp, thanks for the report08:17
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juedo you intend to work more with awk?08:19
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Romsterjue, yes if i can ever master it.08:23
Romsterlooking though examples and the stuff in prtverify too.08:23
jueawk is pretty cool, but most people use it only to do stuff like {print $2}08:24
juein many case you can replace grep/sed combinations with one wak statement08:25
jue*awk08:26
Romsterthat's what i'm doing i'm using it to print just for now but i see it can replace them two08:28
Romsterlooks quite powerful and not been used enough.08:29
sepenjue, <jue> sepen: congratulation, you've found a bug in prtverify ;-)08:30
sepen??08:30
sepenis it a joke?08:31
juenot a joke, the source-not-found message for eclipse is wrong08:32
jueRomster: yep, my thought as well08:32
Romstersepen, also you can add in a whitelist for the nvidia-* ports.08:33
juesepen: it's a rather subtile bug, triggered by the source-url08:33
juein http://rm.mirror... the rm-part is taken as rm (remove) due to a bug in my regexp and the \ at the end of the source-url causes that prtverify reads the next line.08:35
jueso the test for pkgfile vars never sees the source=08:36
sepenRomster, nice Ill try to fix some issues and perform more features08:40
Romsterjue, nice bug..08:41
jueyes, not so easy to find08:43
sepenjue, well was accidentaly, but Im glad to find it08:44
sepen:)08:44
juebbl08:48
sepenlater jue!08:51
Romstersepen, note there is a file in prtverify for whitelisting08:53
sepenhmmm more easy then, thanks for the point Romster08:54
sepensurely I try to do changes at night08:54
Romsternp08:54
Romsterthought i'd point it out since i saw it when i poked around at the code.08:54
Romsteractually think that white list needs a flush and redone from scratch.08:55
Romsterand maybe a prtverify.d/ directory to add more whitelists maybe.08:55
Romsterjue, might want to think about that.08:56
sepenif some would take a look svn://mikeux.dyndns.org/crux/trunk/tools08:56
sepenrepoverify and repoverify.php here08:57
Romsteri think i got a copy of.08:57
sepenok08:58
Romsterportverify hmm not sure *checks that*08:58
Romsterhmm is a darcs something else.08:59
* Romster checks it out.09:00
Romstergot it i'll have a read in awhile.09:02
Romstercompiling something atm.09:02
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jdolan_erm.  i suddenly feel dumb.  is /var/run wiped on reboot?09:22
cptnjdolan_: *.pid is09:23
cptnthe rest should remain untouched09:24
cptnwell, /var/run/utmp is also reset09:25
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jdolan_hm.  is that distro-specifict?09:28
jdolan_a directory i had created in /var/run last week is suddenly gone and i'm confused.09:28
cptnyeah09:29
cptnit's in CRUX' /etc/rc09:29
cptnno idea how other distros handle it09:29
cptnapparently, ubuntu uses tmpfs for /var/run09:37
cptnthat would explain it09:38
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cptnif you run mount, you'll see that09:38
cptnI mean, you'll see whether that's the case on your distro09:46
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Rotwangi saw on the wiki some time ago how to configure wim, so it highlights Pkgfiles as shell scripts10:04
Rotwangi cant find it now :x10:05
Rotwangah, found it10:05
tilmanwim, haha10:07
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Rotwangtypo ;]10:07
Rotwangbrain kind typo10:07
tilman$ grep Pkgfile ~/.vim/filetype.vim10:08
tilmanau BufRead Pkgfile set ft=sh10:08
tilman$10:08
tilmanfor the record10:08
Rotwangk, thx10:08
Rotwangehhh, i preffer vi mode than vim :\ vim is prettier tho10:10
sepenRotwang, dotfiles.org its also useful for some uses10:10
Rotwangnice10:13
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Romsterthat blows... the beta nvidia driver says i need SSE to run it...11:29
Romsteri'm on a fscking K7 that has no SSE.11:29
Romsterback to 100.14.19 since the one in opt don't work for me either.11:29
tilmannelson says HAHA11:32
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rehabdoll:D11:36
rehabdollbinary blobs ftw11:36
Romsteryeah really11:36
Romsteri'm gonna complain to nvidia over this.11:36
rehabdolland i bet they will be horrified to learn one user has a problem11:37
rehabdoll:/11:37
Romstertilman, btw got Xephyr working too.11:37
tilmangood11:37
Romsteryou may want to enable that on the nest release.11:38
Romsternext*11:38
Romsterok been using xnest too much :P11:38
RomsterNVIDIA OpenGL Driver requires CPUs with SSE to run.11:41
Romster:/11:41
Romsteri'm finding it on forums just googling11:42
Romsterno wonder i got a illegal instruction on the 169.x series. it all makes sense now.11:42
thrice`good excuse to upgrade :)11:43
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Romsteri planed to get 4 640GB hdd's and a 4 port sata to pci controller. very soon and wanted to wait it off on the new system. and turn this into a media center with this video card since it's agp....11:58
Romstermy plans might be foiled.11:58
Romstermight have to find me a old althon 64 or something that has sse for my media center... unless nvida does something about this bull shit.12:00
Romsterand yes 4 640GB hdd's would cost me $452aud plus the controller.12:01
Romsterand give me alost 2TB of space raid 512:02
Romsteralmost*12:02
Romstersick of having this low 200GB hdd.12:02
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Rotwangthe new lines in arrays do not need to be escaped12:17
Rotwangif im wrong correct me12:17
Rotwangbecause new line is also a field separator i guess12:18
Rotwangjust a notification :P12:18
RomsterI'm not sure on that i had a look for it and didn't find it.12:25
RotwangRomster: the best way is to try it yourself :P12:26
Romsterbeing that arrays are a bashism bash may not need it. if you used the posix standared of strings source='' then i guess you would need to escape new lines.12:26
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Romsteryeah but keeping to standards is the thing but it's a bash array anyways so i guess it's not needed. so all ports can clean that off of there source array.12:27
Romsteri think the array strips everything down to a single space and only ends when it finds it's closing bracket.12:28
Rotwangyeah it looks better12:28
Romstersource=('one item' 'two items')12:29
Romstermakes a array with 0 and 112:29
Romsterinstead of 412:29
Rotwangthats right12:30
Romsteri think new lines don't matter maybe you could have heaps of new lines and as long as it finds the closing bracket it'll still work.12:30
Romsteri should try that and put in like 10 \n then the )12:30
RotwangRomster: you quoted the new lines so they dont count12:30
Romsteryeah they count as 2.12:30
Romsterinstead of 412:31
Rotwangnewline space and tab are default internal field separators12:31
Romsterbut if i spaced them on new lines and not escape the new lines.12:31
RomsterIFS=\s for a array i guess.12:31
Rotwang\n too12:31
Rotwang\t12:31
Romsterany other \s and \t would be removed.12:31
Romster\n \t \s12:32
Romsterso who ever started escaping arrays didn't know any better.12:32
Romsterit's only needed on variables not arrays.12:32
Rotwangif you quote them its not necessary too12:33
Romsteralso i was thinking ya could even do source[0]='item one' then on the next line source[1]='next item'12:34
Romsteryeah12:34
Rotwangit would also work i think12:34
Romsterit would.12:34
Romsterhttp://www.tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/refcards.html12:35
Romstervery handy page to have bookmarked.12:35
Romstersometimes i forget a letter does what now... open page and double check.12:35
* Rotwang wonders what binary operators does in bash12:37
Rotwangits a mistery12:37
Romster<<12:37
Romsterjust looks for the atime and mtime checking12:39
Romsterand that last one if it's a hard link.12:39
Romsterto the same file.12:39
Romsterpretty much self explanatory12:39
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trimoin13:05
Rotwangevenin'13:05
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Romstermorning @ 04:1413:17
teKGUUG greeting13:18
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jueRomster: implemented13:25
cruxbot[contrib.git]: fluxbox: fix man-path13:26
teKnow to dhcp and cacti :>13:27
pitillo:)13:28
jueRomster: the internal gawk function accepts a array of filenames now, so we can define something in the shell script to fill $WHITELIST, e.g. $(ls $MODDIR/*.wl)13:29
Romsterah13:29
Romsterneat.13:29
Romsteri noticed you set variables for each thing.13:30
Romsteralso there is a rc for iptables out so the next release shouldn't be far away.13:30
jueonly when useful ;-)13:30
Romsterand i thought about pruning that iptables-imq to only include the 2 IMQ modules and puting it in contrib again.13:31
Romsterwhy i didn't think of that sooner i don't know.13:31
Romsterand i got t fix transcode too.13:32
Romsters/t/to13:32
Romstersepen, i can make a white list of the nvidia ports if you like.13:32
Romsterinto a file.13:32
jue darcs get http://jue.ods.org/repos/prtverify13:32
Romsterta13:32
sepenRomster, sure13:33
Romsteryou should use git too :)13:33
sepen;)13:33
Romsteralthough i'm with hg still.13:33
sepenATM Im writing a mail relative to safe-env to the crux-devel ML13:33
tilmanyou should use git, too13:33
sepenjust I need a couple of minutes13:33
juehehe13:33
sepenbut thanks Romster13:33
Romsterit's in my todo list.13:33
sepenok I noted too13:33
Romsterok i have a copy now.13:35
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Romsteri'm surprised i'm nearly 50% of contrib...13:54
DarkNekroshi everybody ;)13:54
Romsterhi DarkNekros13:54
DarkNekrosRomster, congratulations for being 50% of contrib ;)13:55
Romsterhehe thanks.13:56
DarkNekrosyou're welcome ;)13:56
Romsterjue made stats available.13:56
Romsterhttp://jue.ods.org/gitstats/13:57
Romsterlooks like jue is the most active in opt too.13:57
pitillocan be nice to link it from crux.nu13:57
sepenohh nice stats13:58
Romstermaybe if jue plans to keep running that? or put it on the crux.nu site.13:59
DarkNekrosthere are 3 times Simon Glossner with differents beta-esses xD13:59
Romsteryeah14:00
Rotwangroot 3 (0.14%)14:00
Rotwang0o14:00
Romsterno idea there.14:00
Romsterah that be init i guess..14:00
tilmanRotwang: those are the initial commits probably14:00
DarkNekrosit would be root cleaning14:00
Rotwangyes14:01
Rotwang2002-10 Jose V Beneyto14:01
Rotwangis it possible?14:02
sepenyes14:02
tilmanbroken clock :p14:02
Rotwangsepen: youre with contrib almost 6 years14:02
sepenajajaj14:02
Rotwangi didnt know that ;]14:02
Rotwanghehe; lol14:03
sepennot, was a problem with my working copy14:03
sepenheheh14:03
sepenso for try to avoid this  I suggested test.git repo14:03
Rotwangwhen contrib come into existence?14:03
Rotwangcame*14:03
sepenbut no one use it14:03
sepenRotwang, see crux.nu/News14:04
sepenor directly the ML14:04
sepenno idea here14:04
Rotwang03-200514:05
Rotwangfirst post on contrib list14:05
tilmansepen: why would anyone use contrib-test.git now, there's no new users...14:05
Romsteri was wondering that didn't think sepen was around that long.14:06
Romsterwho has access to contrib-test.git anyways?14:06
tilmananyone who has access to contrib14:07
pitillotilman, I am the last one and I did only a few changes at Pkgfiles, I think I can do it directly at contrib repo, but may be I will try first there (may be can be used by someone who want to make other kinds of tests, not like mine)14:07
tilmansure14:08
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Romsteri haven't tried a 3 way merge yet not that we would have many of them happen.14:12
sepenjust it was a suggestion that a consider usefult for new git users14:14
sepen*useful14:14
Romsteryeah, we could do with more that are into different things so we get more variety.14:31
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sepenmail sent :)14:41
Rotwangmay I add to Nice to have ports that are not in core/opt/contrib ?14:45
sepennicetohave isn't oficial14:45
Rotwangbut may i put in pkgfile that goes to contrib?14:46
sepenHi people,14:46
sepenAs surely someone has known, pitillo and me are involved on developing a14:46
sepensafe environment where test crux ports.14:46
sepenApparently, ATM don't exist a unified way for testing/developing ports.14:46
sepenAs we known, developers are using prtutils, chroot environments or14:46
sepenunfortunately other are using their own crux system for building and14:46
sepentesting their ports, and that sounds terrible in some cases.14:46
sepenFor that, we are working on 'safe-env', a environment similar to a14:46
sepen"freshinstall", where testing ports and try to discover bugs, and also14:46
sepenthe most issues that crux users can find when they are building ports14:46
sepenfor their systems.14:46
sepenWe are trying to keep the environment as simple as possible (KISS),14:46
sepengiving freedom to respect people's customs or preferences working daily14:46
sepenwith CRUX, but having the security of a minimal and secure environment.14:46
sepenSurely we have errors or other things that can be done better, without14:46
sependoubt, but now our first objective is to know if CRUX people can see it14:46
sepenlike as a idea that can be done better in a future, and if it can be of14:46
sepenbenefit for all the community.14:47
sepenThe environment consist in 2 scripts: safe-env and prt-clean:14:47
sepen- with safe-env we can build a "freshinstall" environment and play with it.14:47
sepen- also, with prt-clean we can take snapshots at different moments of our14:47
sepenenvironment and then delete ports between snapshots (taking   first a14:47
sepenfreshinstall snapshot)14:47
sepenBeing minimal it can be flex and we can give it more uses, personally14:47
teKmooahn URL!14:47
sepenI'm using it to build uCRUX packages for my old 486 laptop, so I don't14:47
sepenspend hours and hours compiling on it.14:47
sepenFinally, we will glad to known your opinions/suggestions/etc about that.14:47
sepenlast release:14:47
sepenhttp://mikeux.dyndns.org/crux/distfiles/safe-env-0.1-svn162.tar.bz214:47
sepensvn repository: svn://mikeux.dyndns.org/safe-env/trunk14:47
Rotwang\o/ \o/ \o/ \o/14:47
sepenThanks in advance, and best regards,14:47
sepen  Jose V Beneyto14:47
sepenohhhhhh soooory!14:47
sepenI want to paste that http://lists.crux.nu/pipermail/crux-devel/2008-May/003372.html14:47
sepenplease sorry people :[14:47
* sepen should disappears14:47
sepen:||14:47
teK+1 temp kick ban14:47
teK;D14:47
Rotwangwell, will i get an answer?14:48
sepenjust my mouse buffer14:48
sepenRotwang, I want to paste you that http://lists.crux.nu/pipermail/crux-devel/2008-May/003372.html14:48
sepen*wanted14:48
tilmanRotwang: what repo would you like to reference?14:48
tilmani mean what repo is the port in that you're going to reference?14:48
cptnRotwang: in general, inventing new headers for Pkgfiles doesn't really make sense14:49
cptnRotwang: unless there's a clear definition for it14:49
cptnand it's therefore used consistently14:49
cptnthat said, no one really stops you from committing it14:49
Rotwangtilman: contrib gnome personal14:49
tilmanyou shouldn't reference gnome/personal ;)14:50
Rotwanghmm14:50
Rotwangthats makes easy thing hard14:51
Rotwangmaintainers life is full of surprises and excitement!14:52
sepenxD14:52
Rotwangwhat a wonderful life!14:52
Rotwangnext question comming ;>14:52
Rotwangso there is executable that depends on that ports from gnome/personal14:53
Rotwangand it works only partially without them14:53
Romsterand that sounds terrible in some cases. O_o14:53
Rotwangshould i remove this executable or leave it?14:53
Rotwangor revrite it ?14:54
tilmanRotwang: see /usr/ports/opt/git/README -- maybe you can do the same?14:54
cptnwell, is the only excutable in the port?14:54
cptnor one amongst many?14:54
cptnI mean, if it's just a small part of the port, it's probably okay14:54
Rotwangcptn: its one of two executables14:55
Rotwangits mostly wrapper14:55
Rotwangtilman: so write short README ?14:55
Rotwangthats not bad idea14:55
tilmanif your situation sounds similar to git's.. :)14:56
Rotwangbut some important features doesnt work without it14:56
cptnit's a touch call without real details :-)14:56
tilmanyeah14:56
Rotwangok ill write readme ;]14:56
cptnthe other possibility it to move the dependencies into contrib14:56
cptnespecially those which is currently in a personal repo14:57
Rotwangyes, but i think if its worth it :P14:57
Rotwangugly sentence :{14:57
Rotwangcptn: but still questions arise14:58
Rotwangwe try to trim down deps14:58
tilmanwhich port is it?14:58
tilmanand what's the dependency?14:58
cptnRotwang: we do?14:58
Rotwangwhile they are not critical we do not include them14:58
Rotwangtilman: its asciidoc14:59
cptnsays who?14:59
Rotwangi think so :x14:59
Rotwangwe the people who maintain some ports14:59
cptnah14:59
tilmanRotwang: nah, non-critical dependencies might enable awesome features \o/14:59
tilman:)14:59
Rotwangand trying to keep with crux philosophy14:59
Rotwangtilman: true14:59
cptnRotwang: I try to offer a well tested port15:00
Rotwangand thats the point15:00
tilmanRotwang: which port would you like to add to contrib?15:00
tilmanas a maybe-dep for contrib15:00
cptnRotwang: and that may include some deps others might consider non-critical15:00
Rotwangdocbook-xsl and fop im currently working on15:00
tilmanhahahaa, fop15:00
tilmanhahhahahaha, docbook15:00
Rotwangdocbook-xsl/gnome15:00
tilman\:D/15:00
tilmanwith that shit, any bets are off :D15:01
tilmanRotwang: but yeah, i think i'd put them into contrib15:01
Romsterlol...15:01
Rotwang;]15:01
Rotwangok, will do15:02
Rotwang\:D/  <--- funny emoticon15:02
tilmanyes15:02
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NyadHello. I just installed crux but  I chose not to install lilo or grub for it since I already have it in my MBR. so I tried editing my grub menu.lst file. I added this to the file http://pastebin.com/d587917bc15:08
Rotwangwouldnt it be sdc?15:09
Nyadsorry I meant sdc15:09
Nyadthat wasn't the mistake originally, just a typo in the pastebin15:10
Romstersepen, install -d -m 0755 ..., that "-m 0755" is redundant directories are created as 0755 unless you changed the umask somewhere.15:10
cptnNyad: what's the error?15:10
RotwangNyad: so whats the problem?15:10
sepenRomster, nice to known I'll applied in the future15:11
NyadI get a kernel panic when I try and boot that from grub. it says that I need to set    root=    correctly15:11
Romster:)15:11
sepen*apply15:11
Romsterclean layout.15:11
Romstereven cleaner then mine.15:11
sepenwell sometimes you have umask defined by your .profile, I'm wrong?15:12
sepenbut I'll take care about this, thnx15:12
Romsterjust set umask 022 in the file to be safe.15:12
Rotwangsepen: even if i have set it in my profile, that means i really want such permissions15:12
Nyadand it says that the current mounted devices are:   0300 anotherNumber hda cdrom15:13
Rotwangif you understand me :<15:13
Nyadbut my thing is on my external HD on sdc215:13
cptnNyad: does your kernel have support for that external HDD?15:13
cptnsepen: explicit is better than implicit15:14
Nyadwell I'm using the kernel crux 2.4 came with15:14
cptnsepen: if you mean to create a dir with 755, and it can happen that it doesn't work, then optimizing it away sounds silly15:14
tilmancptn: pythonist? ;)15:14
Rotwangi say dont override someones options other thing15:14
Rotwangs15:15
cptntilman: yeah :-)15:15
Rotwangomfg my english today sucks really bad :\15:15
cptnNyad: if you boot from the CD, is the HD detected?15:16
Nyadyes, and I can mount it15:16
Romsteryou must be root privileges15:17
Romsterlol15:17
Romsteryou must have root privileges15:17
Romsterso far i knew you were using a image to work in.15:18
Romsterthat then how i chrooted to a directory.15:18
Nyadis there anything wrong with what I have in grub? I even tried putting the UUID that ubuntu says it has by the root part and still no luck15:23
Nyadwhy is there no rmdisk15:24
NyadI compiled my kernel to use one15:24
Nyadwas that wrong?15:24
Romsteri'd help but i use lilo.15:24
Romstersepen, i just spoted a error.15:25
cptnNyad: that kernel you use... is it the config from the ISO?15:26
cptnNyad: and if yes, do you use an initramfs?15:26
Romstersafe-env line 11015:26
Romsteryou got .m instead of -m15:26
cptnNyad: according to git, the ISO kernel config has USB_STORAGE as module only15:26
Nyadyes to the first, no to the second. The installed partition doesn't have one, but my ubuntu does15:26
cptnah15:27
cptnand your external HDD is USB, right?15:27
Nyadya15:27
cptnthen you'll have to rebuild the kernel15:27
cptnor use an initramfs, like the ISO does15:27
RomsterUSB_STORAGE would have to be built in and not a module.15:28
cptnyou see, before the kernel can load modules, it has to mount the drive15:28
Nyadwhen you install you have to rebuild the kernel15:28
cptntypically, yes15:28
cptnbut you don't have to15:28
Rotwangsepen: may i ask why you add "+" in some of the echo lines?15:28
teKpitillo15:28
Romstertrue if you use a intrid image.15:28
pitilloyes teK?15:28
teKis your cacti port the one from the guy I wrote the mail to?15:29
Nyadcptn, so is all I have to do this: I reinstall and build my kernel with different arguments? or must I get a later kernel?15:29
cptnNyad: the current kernel will work fine15:29
teKhis repo seems to have been removed15:29
cptnyou have to edit the configuration to build in USB STORAGE15:29
pitilloteK, no, I did a bump to manolo's port15:29
cptnand rebuild the kernel15:29
pitilloummm checking15:30
teKbut nothing else? Then I'd simply rip off your port and put it into contrib/15:30
teKs/nothing/anything/15:30
pitilloteK, manolo's repo seems to be up http://www.tienza.es/crux/ports/ here is his port http://www.tienza.es/crux/ports/cacti/15:31
teKbut nothing else? Then I'd simply rip off your port and put it into contrib/ <-15:31
Nyadcptn, so basically when I run make menuconfig that's where I do it?15:31
cptnNyad: yes :-)15:32
pitilloteK, well, I don't remember quite well, I have it at work, but i think mine is working fine.15:32
teKI will test it anyways15:32
teK:>15:32
teK*rip off*15:32
pitilloteK, better if you can verify it15:33
RomsterNyad, you can search for it /USB enter15:33
Romstershould be close enough.15:34
Romstermake sure it has a * and not a M15:34
Romsterwith the space bar.15:34
Nyadin the menu?15:34
Romsteryeah in menuconfig15:34
Nyadwow15:34
Romsteryou can search just like you do in man pages.15:34
Romsteryeah not many realise there is a search built in.15:35
Romsterhow many in here run grub than use lilo?15:36
Nyadoh! now I fully understand the M's. coz M's are for modules and * is to be installed15:36
RotwangRomster: me15:36
Romsteryes M is module.15:36
RotwangNyad: \o/15:36
Romster* is compiled in.15:37
Romsterand make sure your filesystem is compiled in too for the root FS at least.15:37
Nyadok, be back soon, in crux hopefully15:38
Nyadit does come with an IRC client right?15:38
cptnnot sure if there's one on the iso15:39
Rotwangirssi probably15:39
cptnbut you can install software easily in crux :-)15:39
Rotwangits in opt, but not sure15:39
RomsterNyad, what ever you install.15:39
Nyadok, thanks a lot guys15:39
Romsterbitchx if that takes your fancy.15:39
Romsteror even xchat.15:40
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teKpitillo: regarding your testing of dhcp: did you have ipv6 enabled?15:40
cptnRotwang: according to the ChangeLog, irssi's not on the ISO15:40
pitilloummm I haven't tested dhcp (I am not using it here and without ipv6, sorry)15:40
teKyou told me it did not work even with -415:41
pitilloteK, ummm are you sure was me?15:41
Rotwangcptn: yeah i wasnt sure15:41
teKpitillo: you made a comment about the fluxbox port, right?15:41
pitilloteK, I think I read about that (sounds for me, but I think wasn't me who reported that)15:41
Rotwangcptn: but it would be nice if irrsi was on the iso15:42
pitilloteK, ummm about fluxbox? at FS with missing deps or what do you mean?15:42
teKhere in IRC something like "cool, fb back in contrib/"15:42
cptnRotwang: I think providing ports(8) and a kernel with networking support is just fine15:42
cptnteK: wasn't that rehabdoll?15:43
pitilloteK, well, it's good to get flux in contrib IMHO, but I am not sure I told that15:43
teKcptn: could be...15:43
cptnteK: http://crux.morpheus.net/irc/?channel=crux&date=20May2008#14:20:4315:43
Romsteri found a small bug and sepen has disapeared.15:43
teKhe has dhcp in his repo, too.. could be15:43
teKcptn: thanks a lot15:44
pitillo:)15:46
sepenhere15:52
sepenRomster, what?15:53
Romster[06:26:26] <Romster> safe-env line 11015:53
Romster[06:26:40] <Romster> you got .m instead of -m15:53
Rotwangthats funny, footprint created by real root and fake one differs!15:54
Rotwangalthough theyre the same :\15:54
Romsteralso thought of a Makefile and crux Pkgfile to install this setup?15:54
RomsterRotwang, maybe not exactly.15:54
Romster.footprint gets sorted.15:55
Rotwangahhh no, sorry my bad :\15:55
Rotwangnever mind15:55
Romsteryep15:55
sepenRomster, ohh I'll need to do some changeset with your point15:57
sepen<Romster> also thought of a Makefile and crux Pkgfile to install this setup?15:58
Romsterits only a man page but yeah suprised you  missed that one.15:58
sepenyeah,15:58
Romsteryeah it's a system wide install is it not?15:58
Rotwangsepen: may i ask why do you use + in echo lines?15:58
sepenbut where you think is the best path for img, iso, and mnt dirs?15:58
Rotwangdo you want it to be more readable\?15:59
sepenRotwang, well could be15:59
sepenisn't a big deal for me15:59
Rotwangk15:59
Rotwangits something like emulating set -x, its not a bad idea15:59
Romster/usr/share/safe-env/ for the iso i'd put the mnt to maybe /usr/var/save-env/15:59
sepenRomster, I plained to write a Makefile for wide install, yes16:00
sepenusr/var souns nice16:00
sepen*sounds16:00
Romsteri currently use /var/tmp/safe-built/16:00
sepenI also plained to write something for be able of using ~/.safe-env/ etc etc16:00
sepenor similar for users without full privileges16:01
Romsterah a ~/var/safe-env and put the config for the user in ~/.safe-envrc16:01
Romsteror as you typed ~/.safe-env/16:01
sepenRomster, 110 fixed, thnx16:02
sepenRomster, yeah thats my idea16:02
Romsterya16:05
Romstersepen, http://romster.dyndns.org:8080/linux/ports/crux/romster/safe-build/Pkgfile I have a Makefile already16:09
sepenhmm16:09
Romsterthought when you would release you I could install but you haven't got that far.16:10
Romsterthat than a few quirks that works now.16:10
sepenI like the idea, but not enough time since now16:10
sepeneasy to port16:11
sepennice!16:11
Romsteronly difference is you got a image and i use a directory.16:11
Romsteryeah i made it easily installable.16:11
Romsternot sure how portable i still got some hard coded paths to redo.16:12
Romsteri'll look more into your safe-env16:12
Romsteryou basicly don't even sue chroot command itself since you mount that image and work in it right?16:12
Romsteruse*16:12
sepenjust I need to learn more about you code16:14
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pitilloyes Romster16:16
Romsterthere is some issues too but it does indeed work.16:16
Romsterif i may say my opinion your setup looks neater code wise than mine, but that was only me working on it when i felt like it. your setup from first looks seems more suited to running many users like in a virtual computer setup type of way.16:18
Romsteri got a command safe-build -b, that backs up the built packages and links the sources to the main system so whenever that safe-build directory is removed and you do update on the system you don't have to download twice.16:19
sepenwell in both cases all could be better bit a bit16:19
Romsterno idea on the performance wise side of it either.16:20
Romsteri'd like to play but can i trust it not to nuke my system :P16:20
Romsterj/k16:20
sepen:)16:20
pitillothat and building ports in ram can be good to save image space too16:21
sepenIm waiting comments in the ML too16:21
sepenxD16:21
Romsteri was most interested when i saw a reference to ucrux for 486 i thought that wasn't maintained anymore?16:21
Romsterpitillo, ah yes i made a wiki page on that.16:22
sepenbut imho these features could be added in the future with no dificul16:22
pitilloRomster, yes romster I know. I think joining the info can be grow in a good direction16:22
sepenRomster, I think its maintained by Simone16:22
Romstersip simon?16:22
Romstersimone*16:23
sepenRomster, and for me runs really fine, despite the fact that build uclibc sometimes its a hard job16:23
sepen*task16:23
sepensimone rota = sip16:23
Romsteri see.16:23
Romsterah16:23
Romsteri got a 486 laying around here <<16:23
sepenhehe16:23
Romsterdx4 120MHz lol16:24
Romsternot sure if it's got 16 or 32MB ram.16:24
sepentoshiba 2100 here16:24
sepenwith only four megs of ram16:24
sepenxD16:24
Romsterah16:24
Romsterthat's going light on.16:24
sepenand runnign crux from a compact flash card16:25
sepenjust I use safe-env for make the img, and then use extlinux for the bootloader16:25
cptnsepen: question:16:25
cptnit seems one has to install packages manually16:25
cptnaccording to HOWTO-Installing-uCRUX-2.1-inside-safe-env.txt16:25
pitilloRomster, about ucrux it's explained in the doc16:26
pitillothere16:26
cptnso what is the advantage compared to regular chroot testing?16:26
sepenRomster, I wrote a little doc http://paste.lisp.org/display/6110316:26
sepencptn, hmm16:26
sepencptn, an easy way of having a entire crux inside crux16:27
cptnhow so?16:27
cptnhttp://crux.nu/Main/ChrootTesting16:27
cptn^ this is very easy too16:27
cptnand less work that your approach16:27
sepenyeah, but its not unified16:27
sepenmy main point isn't safe-env script, just the idea of standarize it16:28
Romstercptn, have you looked at safe-build? it basically is a helper for a chroot. i'm not sure how safe-env will fair it looks more suited for KVM type stuff.16:28
cptnsepen: how is it more standard?16:28
sepencptn, well automatically it can creates many different env's for you16:29
cptnsepen: but it doesn't install a standard set of packages, does it?16:29
sepenit install all core packages16:29
pitillocptn, yes it does, only core16:29
cptnah, okay16:30
cptnand that's then a standard setup in your terms?16:30
sepenno, it could be modified to standarize it16:31
sepenjust our own knowledgements about a standart and flexible core16:31
pitillohow do you make a new setup? do you add core/opt all by default? or core/opt/xorg?16:31
cptnpitillo: all from core and opt that are on the ISO16:32
cptnpitillo: that's the standard setup from ChrootTesting16:32
cptnso that page already defines a standard16:32
sepencptn, safe-env use core   sounds more easy than create step by step you own chroot16:32
pitillothen sysup and revdep?16:32
sepenand prt-get deptree and after that prt-clean <options>?16:32
cptnpitillo: according to your doc you have to run sysup too?16:33
sepencptn, did you read about our prt-clean?16:33
pitillocptn, I didn't mean what the page say, I mean what do you think about a standard way... do you see core/opt like a standard?16:33
pitillocptn, yes, insllaed core, sysup, and the all it's built over a updated core16:33
cptnsepen: yes16:33
cptnpitillo: you have to define it for both your and the current approach16:33
pitilloyou don't need to run revdep and rebuild some ports which can be needed16:33
cptnI'm just trying to understand why you suggest a different way16:33
sependifferent?16:34
sepenI think its the same but more easy16:34
pitillocptn, well, from my side I am trying to understand the standard (re-reading the webpage again)16:34
sepenyeah me too16:34
sepenthanks for pointing these16:34
sepen*this16:34
pitillowell, then can be added a sysup and revdep steps there too if I am not missing something16:36
pitillo(I mean there to the webpage)16:36
pitillobtw, it's good to know that there is a standard16:36
cptnwell, that page was written for a pre-release16:36
cptnand thus sysup wasn't really needed16:37
cptnfor a general setup, that would definitely make sense yes16:37
cptnrevdep, not sure, that would actually hide errors16:37
cptnwouldn't it?16:37
cptnsince a sysup should usually work16:37
pitillothere weren't any comment at FS ticket talking about footprints and with a comment from mike talking about how must ports be built16:37
sepenI like also the idea of having prt-clean for cleanning some installed packages16:38
Romsteri based my setup off that wiki chroot testing or some other similar page but i can remember it looking different to that page.16:38
pitilloummm well, for a general setup and for a clean/minimal way to build ports too cptn16:38
cptnpitillo: which FS number?16:38
pitilloor must I assume pelple has opt installed too?16:38
pitillocptn, http://crux.nu/bugs/index.php?do=details&task_id=22116:38
cptnpitillo, sepen: it's definitely a good thing to define a standard approach16:39
Romsteri would prefer only core so when you do a prt-get depinst foo you can find out if it needs a opt port listed on it's 'depends on' line.16:39
pitillomay be mike didn't know about that page (I know about it and I started thinking about the enviroment when I saw it if I not remember bad)16:39
cptnI'm just wonderin why not defining that standard before starting to implement something16:39
pitillocptn, may be I am not understanding what do you expect to be a standard16:40
cptna definition, in words16:40
sepencptn, after initrd appears I was in problems for running chroot with the iso16:40
sepenits not as easy as 2.2 iso16:40
cptnsepen: mmmh, how so?16:40
cptnyou don't boot a kernel in the chroot16:40
pitilloclb, definition in words about which is the safe-env's objective?16:41
pitilloclb?16:41
pitillocptn, sorry16:41
sepenno no could be Im wrong, but you need more steps than ChrootTesting doc explains16:41
cptnit just looks like safe-env is a lot more than a minimal test environment16:41
cptnespecially when I read of cross-compilation and such16:42
cptnit's probably a great thing16:42
cptnhowever the easier it is, the more people will actually use it16:42
pitillocptn, one of it's uses16:42
pitillomay be I didn't explained it well... I am using here a safe-env only to make some tests about clfs... (I am good breaking things, and by now, I didn't break my computer)16:43
pitillosafe-env itself has nothing to be with clfs16:43
pitilloI added some scripts later to start building there a clfs enviroment16:43
sepencptn, also note that 'safe-env' can run in other boxes different to crux16:43
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pitillowell, that isn't tested enought sepen16:44
sepenwe are using directly the 'pkgadd' binary inside the iso16:44
cptnsepen: and chroot doesn't?16:44
pitillocptn, right16:44
sepencptn,  # for p in core/* opt/*; do pkgadd -r $CHROOT $p; done16:44
sepencptn, did you have pkgadd available on ubuntu i.e ?16:45
cptnsepen: no, but we use an ISO too16:45
cptnand you can easily build it on ubuntu16:45
cptnpkgutils, that is16:45
sepenyeah thats the point16:45
cptnbut again, that's an academic case16:45
cptnif you try to introduce a standard way for crux maintainer to test ports16:46
cptnit must run on CRUX primarily16:46
sepenI agree16:46
cptnI just installed crux-2.4rc116:47
cptnaccording to the chroot doc16:47
cptnall I added was the mount of /sys16:47
sepenohh well surely I need to learn more before introduce something like this kind of discussions16:47
cptnI think your setup may be nice to play with crux as is16:48
sepenyes, for people who haven't :)16:48
cptnanyway, thanks for the clarifications16:49
cptnI have some more questions, but I'll post them to the mailing list16:49
pitillocptn, and thank you too for your time16:49
sepenwell sometimes my english its unexplainable :)16:49
sepenyeah as pitillo says, many thanks, we are trying to learn more and more16:50
sepenand trying to do things as better as possible for the community and for us16:50
pitilloall questions, comments, opinions, and whatever you want, I think can be good for all16:50
sepensure16:51
cptnalso, prt-clean might be use useful outside of safe-env16:52
cptnas an independent tool16:52
cptnI think nipuL wrote something similar16:52
pitillocptn, that might sound for you16:52
pitillocptn, you help me with it... I didn't know nipul had another one16:53
cptnlol16:53
cptnI looked at it before and though: "I would have done it the same way!"16:53
pitillojaajajaa16:53
pitillothat's your way16:53
sepenxD16:56
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sepencptn, another feature of 'safe-env' could be that its installed directly in a filesystem image, being nice for dd'ing to block devices like hardisk or flash cards, etc17:00
cptnthat's true17:01
cptnit's not that much the fact that you can dd it (you can cp -a the chroot directory too), but you get a real feeling for the size17:02
cptni.e. for a small device17:02
sepenyeah17:03
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sepencptn, Ill try to reply you mail tomorrow17:29
sepenwith my poor english and also being midnight could be a horrible experience write it now :)17:30
sepensee you later!17:30
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nipuLwhat did it do?18:52
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nipuLs/it/i/18:52
nipuLi assume you're talking about snapshotting the package database18:53
nipuLheh, i also have a "safe-env" like tool i'm working on, so does romster18:55
nipuLit's the soup de'jour18:55
nipuLmine will use unionfs though18:56
nipuLthat way i can have core on it's own then create an overlay whenever i want to test a port18:57
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thrice`does sudo fail to build for anyone else?20:29
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nipuLworks for me21:14
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nipuLwould unit tests be considered junk?22:25
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nipuLhave i forgotten to do something, or are these ports deliberately empty?22:44
nipuLhttp://paste.lisp.org/display/6111522:44
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