IRC Logs for #crux Friday, 2008-05-23

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Romsteri thought rotwang would be making that pkgmk -b more advanced than that..00:44
Romsteri don't see the point -e does a good enough job.00:45
Romsteri got a old Macintosh classic II siting somewhere here collecting dust nipuL00:46
nipuL-e was merged?00:49
nipuLoh, well i don't really see the need for -b myself00:50
cptnnew user syndrome00:53
cptn$OTHERDISTRO has it00:53
cptnCRUX is missing it, so we can improve it by adding it too00:54
RomsternipuL, nope but i'm hoping it will be i use it on my pkgutils copy.00:55
Romstercptn, i find pkgmk -e handy but i don't see any point in rotwangs patch.00:55
cptnRomster: what's the advantage of -e?00:55
cptnpackagers don't have to learn how to use tar? :-)00:55
Romsterwell it saves me having to comment out patches after bumping the version. pkgmk -kw then ctrl+c that. then edit sources make patch then apply new patch, pkgmk -um, pkgmk, pkgmk -uf00:57
Romsteri don't have to comment any patches out if some exist and i keep a consistent state. with pkgmk -e00:58
Romsteri guess i could do it with tar too...00:58
Romsteri just find it quicker.00:58
cptnand you'd keep that changed dir over pkgmk00:58
cptnso you can untar00:58
cptnmake the patch00:58
cptnadd it to Pkgfile and test00:58
cptnand then go back to the untarred dir and refine if needed00:58
Romsterand i got so used to pkgmk -e00:59
Romsterguess it's a hack than to use tar directly.00:59
cptnmaybe if a Pkgfile has multiple source tarballs00:59
cptnthen it would create the "proper" setup01:00
Romsterthere be only a few that have a few source files.01:00
Romsteri've basicly added a extract only from nipuL's idea that so didn't work as it was on the mailing list.01:01
Romsterbeing a good feature really depends on how many ports that have multiple source files.01:02
Romsterbut really which is more efficent pkgmk -e, or looking for the source files you need to edit in /usr/ports/distfiles/01:03
cptneh, that's maybe a better argument :-)01:04
cptnI keep my source files inside the ports dir because of that01:04
Romsteri keep in a common place. because i have sshfs-fuse to all my 3 boxes.01:04
Romsterso i only download them once.01:05
Romster3146 files 11Gb... lol i need to do some cleaning.01:07
Romsteractually i can think of another patch to keep all source files in a directory. that pkgmk does not currently create. would make it easier for me to clean.01:08
RomsterPKGMK_SOURCE_DIR="/usr/ports/distfiles" PKGMK_PACKAGE_DIR="/usr/ports/packages"01:09
Romsterbut i can't do PKGMK_SOURCE_DIR="/usr/ports/distfiles/$name"01:09
Romsterso i need to make a directory for it.01:09
cptnmmh, you can't01:10
Romsterso it's patching time.01:10
Romstersays no directory.01:10
Romsterso is a simple fix.01:10
cptnsince in my pkgmk, the Pkgfile is sourced before pkgmk.conf01:10
Romstersomething todo with the downloading part i guess.01:11
Romsteri'm having a peek in pkgmk01:11
cptnah, it doesn't mkdir it01:12
cptnif it's not there, it's not made01:12
Romsteri knew that much jsut i hadn't got around to making a patch and attaching it to FS yet01:13
Romstermaybe this one will make it in..01:13
Romsterall mine sit there and i really don't know if i'm contributing stuff that would even be considered01:13
Romsteryeah so $name gets set form Pkgfile but needs a directory to download sources too.01:14
Romsteri'll just add a few lines in download_file()01:16
cptnthat will be too late01:16
Romsterbefore it downloads file..01:16
cptnsince in the beginning of main(), PKGMK_SOURCE_DIR is checked01:16
cptncheck_directory "$PKGMK_SOURCE_DIR"01:16
Romsteroh i didn't see that.01:16
cptnand that one exits if it fails01:16
Romstercheck_directory is where i need to make the directory if it don't exist..01:17
Romsterdoh thanks you just saved me some time.01:17
Romsternote to self always see what order things get called in.01:18
Romstersince when is -x readable....01:19
Romster-r is readable -x is executable...01:20
cptn-x for a directory means allowed to change into it01:20
Romsterdoh checks for both.. hmm01:20
Romsterdon't seewhy it need to be executable.01:21
Romsterwell that should be a separate message, i'll make 2 patches...01:22
cptnoh well01:22
Romsterbecause if it says not readable and it is how will the user know?01:23
cptnhe'll run ls -l01:23
cptnor rather -ld01:23
Romsterif upstream don't like that they can omit that patch and just add the create directory hence why spliting the patch to two.01:23
cptnsee that the -x is missing, and set that01:24
Romsteri guess that falls under common sense.01:24
cptnI guess our target audience understands chmod01:24
Romsterk i'll go back to making directory if it don't exist... i'm thinking to general.01:24
Romstersorry about that.01:24
cptnI think you're thinking too specific01:25
Romsterthat too.01:25
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tilmanmavrick61: thanks!01:58 can now send mail to * again that's aliased etc01:58
surroundercptn: I heard yesterday I should contact you if I want to be on the crux user map? :P02:01
cptnsurrounder: yes :-)02:02
tilmanis anyone of you mvanroy at :D02:03
Rotwangcptn: what about guys from antarctica :\02:04
Rotwangit less likely that they do live there02:04
Romsterlol yeah what is it with that, seems more of a joke.02:04
surroundercptn: I want to be on the crux user map :P02:04
tilmanshit, this smtp crap messed up us good02:04 doesn't like us either02:04
Romsterhm blacklisted.02:05
cptnsurrounder: sure, I just need your coordinates :-)02:08
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surroundercptn: where can I look up latitude/longitude? :D02:12
Romsteroh god damn it firefox3 crashed...02:13
Romsterhi sepen02:13
cptnsurrounder: google maps for example02:14
cptnor google for your town name and latitude02:14
Romstereasiest way i found.02:15
cptnsurrounder: where do you live?02:15
Romstermaybe that should be added to the wiki page for the map.02:15
tilmannew crux-devel mail to me \o/02:15
tilmani'm so back :p02:15
Romsteri got this person hammering my http...
Romstersince yesterday and that's in the google ip block...02:18
surroundercptn: wageningen/netherlands/051n58/005e40/gmt+1 :P02:18
cptnI wonder what that could be02:18
Romsterall he does is load every directory of my ports..02:18
tilmanRomster: dig -x ...02:18
Romsterit won't stop hammering02:18
Romsterbah :P02:18
tilmanever thought of that, too02:19
Romsteri forgot again.02:19
Romsterit's stck on a endless loop...02:19
Romsterloading every port directory on me.02:19
Romsterso i blocked it...02:19
tilmangoogle "robots.txt"02:19
Romsteryeah i was just thinking of that...02:20
Romsterbut it should give up gracefully.02:20
Romsteri mean it's been doing this for hours.02:20
tilmanthe alternative would be to fix the googlebot02:20
Romsterwhen my firefox reloads..02:20
tilmanoh wait, it's not yours ;p02:20
cptnsurrounder: do you also want to add your first name?02:20
Romsteri would email them about that issue and add in that robots.txt for now.02:21
surroundercptn: timo02:21
cptnsurrounder: done :-)02:24
surroundercptn: \o/ :)02:25
surroundercptn: thanks :)02:26
cptnthanks for participating02:26
Romstercptn, problem solvered (paint ad), other than now i need to move my source files mess. or start fresh downloading.02:29
cptnRomster: there was a problem?02:29
Romsterfor me at least it's a feature.02:30
sepenwho had this idea? and when was decided?
cptnsepen: attributes were Per's idea02:30
Romstersepen, not sure and it's only ideas.02:30
cptnsepen: suggested at the first CRUXCon02:31
RomsterPer himself...02:31
sepenI dislike a bit02:31
Rotwangme too02:31
Romsteri like some of it..02:31
sepensounds like another new crux fork02:31
Romsterlike the remove hook.02:31
tilmanum #282 sounds weird02:31
tilmanwhat's the advantages of a patched pkgmk?02:32
tilmandisadvantage is that you have to copy/symlink/re-download source archives that are shared among ports :x02:32
Romsterdo i have to write a entire page on pros and cons..02:32
Romsteronly once..02:32
tilman*shared* ffs02:33
Romsterbah, reject it if you like i'm using it thank you.02:33
Romsterand it's not enforced it's optional depending on how you set pkgmk.conf zomg so fucking hard...02:34
Romsterno one seems to like any of my ideas maybe i'll keep them all for myself.02:35
tilmanthe check around mkdir seems superfluous02:35
Romsteri wanted to make sure some silly path wasn't set in pkgmk.conf02:36
cptnRomster: well, you're just adding one feature after the other, to a distro which has simplicity as goal02:36
Romsterand mkdir would make any path you set otherwise.02:36
cptnRomster: what do you expect?02:36
Romsterat least one of my changes get merged :P but looks like none of my work means shit to anyone.02:37
Romsteri'm best to fork my own package manager.02:37
Romsterother than waste my time with the existing one.02:37
cptnthat would probably save us a lot of whining02:38
Romsterseems to be the case don't like what you lot provide wont improve so fork is the only option.02:38
* Rotwang thought about his pkgmgr too02:39
Rotwangnut this one would cover whole portdb02:39
tilmanRotwang: treach and me worked on a idea to handle /usr/ports better02:40
tilmanwell, it was mostly treach's idea and i provided a few suggestions :D02:40
Rotwangive got pdb-mgr idea, it would handle whole portdb, not dependant on /usr/ports02:41
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Romstercrud i didn't think about symlinking and more than one port using the same source file..02:42
Romsterhard linking would solve that. and keep less disk space.02:43
Romsterno easy way though.02:43
tilmanhard linking? how?02:43
tilmanyou cannot hardlink directories02:43
Romsterhardlink mesa3d source between the xorg-server and mesa3d directorys.02:44
tilmanRotwang: tell me more ;p02:44
Rotwanggcc also would be good02:44
Rotwangtilman: its initial idea, ill show you if ill do something with it02:44
Romsterwould require another function to handle if it's already downloaded in another directory then hard link if found.02:45
Rotwangbut unfortunatelly only language i know is bash :<02:45
tilmanRomster: i'd consider that bloat, sorry :o02:45
tilmanRomster: think about it, does a separate src dir really help?02:45
Romsterseems hackish :/02:45
tilmanwhat problem does it solve for you?02:46
Romsterfor one.02:46
Romstercould even put the built packages in that same directory if one wanted too and i might do that.02:47
Romsterah what about the defaults...02:47
Romsterthat would require downloading mesa3d source twice02:47
Romstersince it would go in to /usr/ports/xorg-server/ and /usr/ports/mesa3d/ as set by the defaults.02:48
Romsterhow is this any different now with that patch and appending $name to the end of the directory.02:49
Romsterunless them paths changed in this newer version.02:50
Romsterbrb coffee.02:50
cptnwe could just add a new variable to Pkgfiles02:50
cptnthen packages sharing sources could set that the same02:50
cptntilman: be creative02:51
cptnnot? :-)02:53
Romsterok... what's more hackish sharing sources or a function to hard link sources... or maybe the mirror could work locally too.02:54
Romsteri'm interested to see what tilman's solution is :D02:55
Romsternow to fix that google bot issue.02:59
Rotwangi sent mail but forgot to attach patch x|03:04
Rotwangahh, im not used to mailing lists :\03:06
sepenwho is
Rotwangjest checked that, must b true :x03:08
sepenwell ignore me one more time03:08
tilmanRomster: yes, the default for SOURCE_DIR isn't the greatest03:08
tilmanthat's why nobody uses it :P03:08
* sepen launch03:08
tilmanlunch? at 10? :O03:08
tilmanwe could go wild and switch to /var/ports and /var/distfiles03:09
cptnor /var/ports03:09
tilmanie keep _SOURCE_DIR=$PWD?03:10
cptntilman: would address the nonroot-ports(8), right?03:10
Romstersepen, no idea who that ip is.03:10
tilmancptn: yep (as a bonus :D)03:11
sepenRomster, thats the point - - [22/May/2008:19:16:55 +0200] "GET /safe-env/trunk HTTP/1.1" 404 29403:11
Rotwangsepen: maybe it was polish one as im
Romstergeoip it.03:12
tilmanwhat sepen pasted is a ip03:12
sepenjust I'm very surprised with the poor accesses for taking a look of safe-env03:12
Romstersepen, i got the svn checkout <<03:12
sepenand yes lunch at 10:00 I'll return03:12
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Rotwanglunch at 10 and then siesta time!03:14
Romsterhmm /var/ports seems like a better location than /usr/ports03:14
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tilmanmorning jue03:20
cptnhey jue03:20
juecptn: the --extract-only option is very handy if you keep the sources outside the ports-tree ;-)03:22
Rotwang--build also ;]03:23
cptnjue: yeah, I agree that's a good argument03:24
jueRotwang: no way, in that point I agree full with cptn03:24
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Romsteri use extract only a lot even though it's kinda a lazy way to use tar03:31
cptnyeah, I didn't think of the SOURCE_DIR thing before03:31
cptnmaybe it should be -eo though, to be consistent with the long option?03:32
Romsteri wanted that option nipuL's broken patch made me make a working one.03:32
Romsterhmm i kinda hate more than one letter with - options. but that's a personal thing.03:32
Romsterseems some programs use 2 or more letters too.03:33
Romsteri can alter the patch if that is more to the name it should be.03:33
juecptn: good call03:33
cptnI think that can be done at merge time03:33
cptni.e. no need to resubmit the patch03:34
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cptnmaybe for the man page :-)03:34
Romsteri'll make a new patch and make a man page edit too.03:34
Romsteri so forgot about the man page.03:35
juebtw man-page, someone eager to write a short pkgmk.conf(5) or an extension for pkgmk(8)03:35
cptnjue: if that's gonna make it to pkgutils, let's change the bug report to reflect that :-)03:35
jueat least the new PKGMK_SOURCE_MIRRORS=() isn't that self explaining03:35
cptnoh, regarding that03:36
Romsterhmm maybe i can make that pkgmk.conf(5) unless someone else here objects :P03:36
cptnRomster: I think the MIRROR doc is wrong03:36
cptn doesn't contain tarballs directly03:37
Romsteroh true how on earth do you handle multiple directorys then?03:37
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cptnI think this is mean for distfile mirrors03:37
Romstershort answer.. you don't. i bet.03:37
Rotwangif i was english speaker i could write something about .nostrip in manpage03:38
Rotwangi guess someone else should do it03:38
Romsteralso makes my seperate directorys bork being a mirror too.03:38
Romsterhmm no strip not in man page either?03:38
Rotwangits not used often, is it?03:39
Romsternot very but all the same it should be in the man page03:39
Rotwangit's hidden feature03:40
Rotwangkind of bonus for browsing source :P03:40
Romstercptn, got a good source for me to example in the wiki page or you can edit it to some source i don't know of any that have them all in the one directory.03:41
RomsterRotwang, indeed.03:41
cptnRomster: well, I wasn't around when that got merged03:41
cptnbut I think it's mainly used in LANs03:41
cptnto avoid sharing sources via NFS03:42
cptnwe could point to other distro's distfile servers, but that's somewhat unfriendly03:42
cptnto recommend using others' bandwidth :-)03:42
Romsterlans hmm i use sshfs-fuse and mount all my pc's to the same directory.03:43
cptnI previously argued against this feature unless we have source file mirrors ourselves03:43
Romstersaves having multiple copys03:43
Romsterseems pointless unless users and maybe provides mirrors that others can rsync from too.03:44
Romsterand i guess it would be only core opt xorg or something files.03:44
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RotwangRomster: there is little bug with extract only patch03:53
Rotwangif you try to extract sources that arent present, pkgmk gives you md5sum mismatch03:53
Romsterbug or feature..03:55
Romsteri'm thinking more of a feature it warns you your missing a source file.03:56
Romsterand can do pkgmk -um then pkgmk -e03:57
Romsterif your happy with that.03:57
cptnI vote bug03:57
cptnrunning pkgmk without -d says:03:57
cptn=======> ERROR: Source file '/home/jw/build/dev/psi/psi-0.9.3.tar.bz2' not found (use option -d to download).03:57
Romsterso extract only should ignore md5sums?03:57
Romsterwell yeah that's obvious..03:57
Romstershould -e imply -do03:57
Romsterignoring md5sums is dangerous.03:58
jueno, but it should give the above error message03:58
Romsterah now i get ya..03:58
Romsteri'll fix that.03:58
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Rotwangi cant compile sdl_gfx03:58
Rotwangcould anyone check if it works?03:59
Romsterpastebin the log.03:59
Romsteri'll test in my safe-build :P03:59
nipuLRomster: just look back over the channel log, re creating directories based on their name is possible03:59
nipuLi use it for PKGMK_WORK_DIR04:00
Romsteryes i do that already it does not work for source or package directories though.04:00
RomsterBuilding '/usr/ports/packages/sdl_gfx#2.0.13-1.pkg.tar.gz' succeeded04:01
Romsterbut i haven't updated to gcc 4.2.4 yet.04:01
Rotwangafter unsetting CFLAGS it worked :\04:02
Romsterworks... what does not work is the PKGMK_SOURCE_DIR="/usr/ports/distfiles/$name"04:02
RomsterRotwang, what are your cflags?04:02
Romsterhmm was it the -Os that caused this?04:02
RotwangCFLAGS="-Os -march=native -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer"04:02
Rotwangyeah probably -Os04:02
Rotwangill check that04:02
cptnthat would generate an error from the compiler though04:03
cptnyou'd see tha tin the log04:03
cptnah, no04:03
cptnit redirects all output04:03
Romsteryeah it's hidden..04:04
RotwangRomster: its the -Os flag04:04
Rotwangthat breaks it04:04
Romsterk i'll add a check in to avoid using -Os and pick -O204:04
Romsterdamn my todo list is getting long.04:05
cptnRomster: why do you hide the error?04:05
RotwangCFLAGS=${CFLAGS/-Os/-O2} <-- i suggest04:05
Romsteri don't04:05
cptnyou do04:05
cptnwhy shouldn't that build with Os?04:05
Romsteri have no idea..04:05
Romstershould i be finding out why...04:06
cptnwell, it depends04:06
Romsterjsut so it can compile to a smaller binary.04:06
cptnyou can also just hide it by enforcing certain CFLAGS04:06
Romsterthat's what i intended todo.04:06
Romsterfore -O204:06
cptnyeah, I understood that04:06
cptnthat's what I call "hiding"04:07
Romsterfeel free to find the exact error..04:07
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cptnA quick google search reveals the same happens with -O304:12
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cptnand debian has a patch04:12
Romsteroh blow it... i should always check with other options too.04:12
nipuLum, what timezone is CEST in terms of +/- GMT or UTC?04:13
Nyadcptn, do you think using an initramfs will help my system to boot off the external HD?04:13
cptn^the patch is here04:13
RotwangnipuL: +2 GMT04:13
nipuLnow you're speaking my language04:13
cptnNyad: I don't think so, no04:14
cptnNyad: I beleive that if all modules in the initramfs are built into the kernel you'd have the same effect04:14
cptnbut I've never played with initramfs' myself04:15
Romsterwhy can they not provide a straight patch bah04:15
Nyadcptn, ok I will just do a normal HD install then.04:15
cptnRomster: I posted the URL to the patch04:15
Romsterand now i read you found one for ubuntu...04:15
Romsteri was reading that page <<04:15
Romsterffs i'm doing way to much shit at once here.04:16
NyadCrux says it uses a heavily patched version of grub, why is that so? what's wrong with ordinary grub and crux?04:16
RotwangNyad: gfx grub etc etc04:16
Rotwanglook at the pkgfile04:16
cptnNyad: can you upload your current config?04:22
cptnmaybe people here can look at it04:23
cptnalso, you can always post to the mailing list04:23
cptnthis will reach a lot more users than IRC04:23
sepencptn, are you sure? :)04:24
cptnreach, yes :-)04:24
Romsterok pushed Rotwang try now.04:24
Romsterwith your -Os04:24
Romstertilman, seems cruxbot is MIA04:25
Romstercptn, thansk seems i was going the wrong way about it..04:25
tilmanRomster: thanks04:25
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Romsternp tilman04:26
cptn\o/ cruxbot04:26
cptnRomster: also, this is just a minor thing, but you wouldn't have to increase the release for that04:26
tilmandidn't sepen have a port for 'daemon'?04:26
RotwangERROR: Source file 'sdl_gfx-2.0.13-imageFilter-asm.fix.patch' not found04:26
Romstercptn, ah as it would work for others....04:26
tilmanthat would restart a process if it died04:26
cptnthose that could install it (with -O2 in their CFLAGS) don't have to rebuild it04:26
tilmani guess i won't get to fix cruxbot properly04:26
RotwangRomster ^^04:27
Romstertilman, libdaemon or something or a endless loop that does not exit and trys to reconnect every 30 seconds?04:27
Romsteroh ya fucking thing...04:27
Romsteri forgot to add the patch bah.04:27
Romsterit so isn't my day Rotwang :/04:29
cruxbot[contrib.git]: sdl_gfx: add the missing patch to go with it04:29
Rotwangbad days happens04:29
sepentilman, you mean contrib/monit?04:30
RotwangRomster: ok, it works04:31
tilmansepen: mmh, maybe :)04:32
pitillocptn, what does "with no fixed agenda" (without telling a day or without telling the meeting objectives?)04:32
tilmanpitillo: agenda == meeting objectives04:32
Romsterwhy not the proper way tilman a while loop that never exits. that has a pause in it to check if the bot is connected to irc?04:32
RomsterRotwang, good.04:33
pitillowell, that's organization... may be telling objectives can recruit more people interested in 1 obj and let freedom to assist or not04:33
sepenpitillo, between devels, we aren't as its reflected these days04:33
pitilloor do you think it's better to go there and wait to see which will be the obj of that meeting?04:34
tilmanRomster: the point is that i don't have time to fix the problem properly (= in cruxbot). so just running it under an external programs supervision (o_O?) seems to be the quickest alternative04:34
pitillosepen, for me that doesn't matter04:34
Romstertilman, or cron job to check if the process is running and restart it if not.04:34
sepenpitillo, yeah, me too04:35
pitilloI asked some time ago about meetings... but things went well, and seems that there wasn't needed meeetings... now meetings again at ML, without clare objectives for a meeting?04:35
tilmanFrom: bellsouth_unblock@abuse-att.net04:35
tilmanSubject: Re: RBL Removed
Romsterthat was fast.04:35
cptnpitillo: I think you missed the point04:35
pitillocptn, sure04:35
cptnpitillo: it's to get things done04:35
pitillowell, what things? wiki things?04:35
sepenonly wiki?04:36
cptnor merge pkgutils patches04:36
cptnor decide on bugs, and close them04:36
pitilloand why you dont try to put that obj for a meeting04:36
cptnpitillo: because that's what the regular IRC meeting already does04:36
NyadWhy is it that  menuconfig has less things than are in the .config file? I found many more options in the actual .config file04:36
pitillomay be maintaners of these bugs find it interesting and can be there (core members?)04:36
Romsteri'll make a new version of extract only with the fix and -eo instead of -e option and a man page entry.04:37
Romsterafter i go get me something to eat.04:37
cptnpitillo: because we don't know who will be there04:37
Rotwangand ill post my patch to FS \:D/04:37
cptni.e. if jue and me are there, we might do some wiki stuff04:38
cptnbut if he has plans that night, I can be there anyway04:38
pitillowell, then why don't you post a mail asking for a day to talk about the wiki only and close that objective?04:38
sepenhow many devs are there atm? 3?04:38
pitilloif wiki is related only for you and jue... where is the problem?04:38
pitilloif there are more core members, you can ask them too and try to look for a day to close that item04:39
cptnit's not only related to me and jue04:39
pitillofor core members?04:39
sepenyeah, sip its disappeared, and jue, tilman and you (cptn) are active in #crux, whereis the problem?04:39
sependev team == core, I'm wrong?04:39
tilmanthe problem is that cptn would like to cut down his IRC time i think (?)04:40
tilmanwell, "problem"04:40
tilmani'm not blaming anyone :D04:40
pitillotilman, you can cut it down and move only in ML04:40
pitilloand try to look for a break time (time for a meeting) with other core members04:40
pitilloyou  are only a few... is as hard as that seems for me?04:40
tilmanRotwang: could it be that your mail client is stupid and doesn't set In-Reply-To?04:42
sepenpitillo, 1 question = 1 silence :)04:42
pitillosepen, doesn't matter04:42
Rotwangtilman: could be that person using it is stupid \:D/04:43
pitilloreally, sometimes I feel that some opinions or commets aren't taken seriously04:43
pitilloor are taken in a bad sense04:43
Rotwangi'm really not used to mail and mailing things04:43
Rotwangso i guess its my fault04:43
sepenpitillo, +104:43
cptnsepen, pitillo: I get the impression that whatever we do isn't good enough04:44
cptnmore meetings -> we get complaints04:44
pitillocptn, no no, think in the other way04:44
pitillocptn, omg04:44
tilmanthe problem with a fixed meeting day might be that it's hard to find a date and time that fits everyone04:44
sepencptn, I get the impression that whatever we (pitillo an me) do isn't good enough04:44
pitillocptn, I asked to get more meetings, I asked to make them a bit more organixed to close things04:44
tilmaneg 20:00 cest is awesome for jue/sip/cptn/me but sucks donkey nuts for nipul :P04:45
pitillocptn, and seems that my opinion only were a troll opinion04:45
cptntilman: yeah :-/04:45
sepenpitillo, don't worry just happened one more time04:45
cptntilman: I have no problems to make that 20:00 - 23:0004:45
cptntilman: but that would be work time for nipuL04:45
tilmani think i cannot really allocate time for any serious work anyway atm04:46
tilmani shouldn't even be talking to you right now ;)04:46
pitillosepen, like I said, I have no personal aim in my obj, I always try to think in the comunity, but I am sad because seems that the comunity shits on me04:46
tilmanpitillo, sepen: i find it hard to interpret what you're saying04:46
tilmanpitillo, sepen: i have no idea whether you're pissed off or not04:46
cptnpitillo: yeah, I read that. And the "fixed meetings" approach has clearly not worked, agreed?04:47
pitillocptn, only fixed meetings?04:47
pitilloI think all my comments haven't worked yet04:47
cptnwell, I wasn't thinking about you, but the project04:48
sepenpitillo, I feel frustrated too04:48
tilmansepen: because we haven't tested safe-env yet?04:48
pitillocptn, well, the fixed meetings comments it's directly realted to my comment at ML04:49
pitillowith 1 meeting per month, or with clare objective per meeting (that is what I asked for in my mail)04:50
sepentilman, isn't the only thing04:50
pitillobtw, like I said some time ago, day by day, I am understanding things04:50
sepentilman, because I feel ignored by the team04:51
tilmansepen: give examples please04:52
sepentilman, you suggested me to use ML's but nobody replies, always the same persons04:52
tilmani'm not sure i can do any better04:52
tilmanmaybe i should just quit :>04:52
sepenor me04:52
sepenmaybe I should part from crux04:52
pitilloNyad, try to post with attached files, (IMHO it's more confortable to read files instead of directly the mail, or using links in your posts)04:53
tilmansepen: you mean eg prt-get nicetohave?04:53
sepentilman, I'm trying to suggest things as better as possible, but its so frustated don't receive people comments04:54
sepenI don't wan't that people test all that I suggest, but I think replied a mail is not as difficult04:54
Nyadpitillo, should I repost it then?04:55
cptnsepen: but that's not specific to you, is it?04:55
Nyadsorry about that04:55
sepencptn, sometimes maybe04:55
pitilloNyad, I think it isn't needed may be can be good to take note to the next mail. (btw, this is my opinion, for me is more confortable like I said, may be for others isn't)04:56
pitilloNyad, no problem04:56
cptnsepen: I mean, my suggestion regarding precompiled headers was ignored by the others too04:56
cptnthat's typically when no one has a real opinion04:56
sepenI can't suggest nothing if I understand the concept04:56
Nyadpitillo, I actually agree with you on that, I just didn't think about, only just got up :P04:57
sepenIm not in core team04:57
tilmansepen: the fact that you're not in the core team has nothing to do with the "not getting repllies" thing04:57
tilmansepen: like cptn said, core people get ignored too04:57
sepenI mean that you (core) should replied more than others, just from my point of view04:58
tilmansorry, gotta run04:58
sepensip its dissapeared, is not good for the project04:58
tilmanurgently need to get work done :|04:58
sepennp I think I should part04:58
juewhat should I reply if I either had no opinion or not the time to test something?04:59
sepennp please remove my comments, just was only my opinion05:00
tilmansepen: not sure that attitude helps ;)05:00
tilmanif you feel strongly about it, you stand by your comments, no?05:00
pitillojue, some emails don't need any kind of testing. I think the one related to the enviroment isn't the unique mail at ML05:02
juepitillo: sorry, don't get the point ...05:03
Rotwangkurwa!! stupid FS05:04
cptnpitillo: one thing that I often miss in the mails is a clear message05:05
cptnpitillo: i.e. save-env is a nice idea, but I didn't see which problem it solves05:05
cptnthere's a number of things you imply which others won't necessarily agree on05:06
tilmancptn: it solves the problem of figuring out which packages exactly are dependencies of $foo05:06
cptntilman: like finddeps05:06
cptntilman: except for build-time stuff05:06
sepensorry, my boss was here05:07
pitillocptn, I think I am trying to make an effort to explain things as best as I can. For me talking in english is quite hard and sometimes my comments can sound like an attack, and this isn't really the point05:07
Rotwanghaha lol05:07
pitillocptn, well, I answered you at ML. Do you think posting this last answer there is hard?05:08
cptnpitillo: or the " Some comments about meetings and organization" one05:08
sepencptn, it solves a big problem imho, automation.  like Pkgfile's and pkgmk does with source code compilation, just an abstraction layer for everyone who want to use it05:09
cptnpitillo: you never say "it takes to long to get bugs resolved"05:09
cptnor concrete problems that you think need fixing05:09
pitillocptn, yes, we were talking here and then I moved it to the ML, then I got some answers, but none which I can understand that the point of the mail was closed (things go well now, is a good argument? may be things can go a bit better in the sense of organization)05:10
pitillocptn, I think bugs are solved fast and with experiencie (opinions, talks and good team solutions)05:11
pitillocptn, I think some of my mails are more easy than close a bug. I am always trying to know what people (people who have been working on crux moooore time than me)05:11
cptnwell, in a perfect world, everyone would comment on all mails05:12
cptnbut it just isn't, so people ignore stuff05:13
pitilloif you feel that my use of the safe-env wasn't usefull for the comunity, try to take a look to FS, and I must give thanks to all maintainers who looked at my reports and fixed some which weren't identified by them05:13
pitillocptn, and more when stuff come from people like me05:13
cptnI'm not saying it's not useful05:13
cptnhowever I think the work you do testing the ports is more useful than the tool you use05:14
pitilloand with this I don't mean they didn't do their work well, I mean that for people who is managing tons of ports these little reports can be very usefull05:14
cptnmany of the missing deps could be found with finddeps in a real environment05:14
cptnbut we're too lazy to run it05:14
cptnwhy would they maintain a chroot?05:14
cptnsince that's clearly more work, even with the automation of safe-env05:14
pitillowhy wouldn't use safe-env then?05:14
sepencptn, we can05:15
pitillothat's the point. If you feel that making by hand a chroot is the way to go, let's go. But we are trying to make things a bit easier, thinking in the comunity, which will use these ports05:15
cptnpitillo: no, you misunderstood05:16
cptnI refer to save-env as chroot too05:16
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sepenpitillo, how many tickets did you add to FS?05:16
pitillowith all people involved in crux working together, I think crux will grow in the way it must grow05:16
cptnpitillo: I say the result of _your_ work with save-env is great!05:16
pitillocptn, I am splitting chroot (wiki) and safe-env05:16
pitillosepen, I don't know, but this really doesn't matter for me05:17
cptnbut people might be too lazy to maintain a save-env environment05:17
cptnsince it's more work to run finddeps, and it's not done05:18
pitillocptn, the point is that sometimes I feel some kind of rejecting in some points (and the worse is that I don't have an strong argument to which make me feel that I really was in wrong)05:18
pitillocptn, maintaining a a safe-env is like maintaining a crux inside a crux (or inside other distros). Do you think is this harder than maintain a chroot enviroment?05:19
cptnbut harder than no chroot at all05:21
cptnin your mail, you called it "terrible" to build in a normal environment05:23
pitillowell, seriously I feel it's harder to maintain a chroot than the safe-env, and more when you can find lost deps without running some of prt-utils (wich I like a lot and can be very usefull to make tests inside the enviroment, and create a real safe env)05:23
sepencptn, me, but my english is the worst of this channel you known05:23
pitillocptn, like I answer you, may be terrible wasn't the best word to explain that05:23
tilmancptn: i parsed the "terrible" as "suboptimal" :D05:23
cptnthat's details05:23
tilmaninput % YO_NO_SE_ENGLISH05:23
sepencptn, sometimes could be due to my poor english05:24
pitillotilman, xD05:24
cptnyou just implied that you had the right approach05:24
cptnand the current was wrong05:24
pitillocptn, no, you are assuming that05:24
pitillowe are giving another way05:24
pitillowhich can be good or not, but we are trying to make something to the comunity05:24
cptnyou were providing a solution05:24
cptnbut I didn't really see the existing porblem05:25
pitillowe were providing another solution, not the solution05:25
cptnI mean, I could come up with some05:25
cptnbut I didn't see them in the mail05:25
cptnanyway afk05:26
pitillowell, if you take a look to FS then you can see the existing problem IMHO05:27
pitilloif people is lazy to run prt-utils, I think we can think in them and try to look for a good solution to merge all work and provide a clean/minimal enviroment to develop ports at least05:27
pitillowell, see you soon too05:28
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Romster new version in comment for extract only.06:17
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pitilloNyad, can you upload to a pastebin a lspci and a dmesg ?06:32
nipuLdoes it really matter how people developt ports?06:33
nipuLresults are more important that methodology06:33
pitillonipuL, how they develop affects in the result06:33
Romsterlspci -vv06:33
Romstermore verbose.06:34
pitillobtw, if you feel this doesn't matter, if you have time you can post a mail and tell your opinion06:34
* Romster is siting back watching the big debate.06:34
nipuLthat reeks of effort06:34
pitilloRomster, with a normal lspci I think I can look for usb controllers (this is my aim)06:34
Romsteralso -k will tell what kernel module it uses.06:35
pitillonipuL,  xD06:35
pitilloRomster, ummm checking06:35
Romsterwell if it is using a module.06:36
pitilloRomster, niiice06:36
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Romstershouldn't be in Nyad's case.06:36
pitilloRomster, thank you for that tip :)06:36
Romsternp :)06:36
pitillobut it's very good to know :)06:36
Romsterit si very handy.06:36
Romsterubuntu.. O_O06:38
Romsterare we debuging a crux install or a ubuntu one?06:38
Romsterlsusb might be handy too Nyad06:39
Romsterif you got your drive plugged in.06:40
pitilloNyad, have you tried a newer kernel version?06:40
Nyadpitillo, no, but DSL uses 2.4 kernel and it supports this06:40
pitillobtw, if it's supported by the iso, this really doesn't matter06:40
Romsternot even listing your usb drive.06:44
RomsterNyad, i take it sdc is the external usb drive? i can see it in that dmesg06:47
Nyadyes. the partition is sdc206:48
Romster4GB swap i see too :P06:48
pitilloNyad, you have CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDE_SATA enabled which can make conflict with your SATA_NV06:49
pitillohave you tried to disable it and test again?06:49
Romsterso it's seen and works but will not boot from it.06:49
NyadI can try now.06:49
Romsteryou using a initrd or something to boot to it or got the bios to look for a sub hdd first?06:50
pitilloI can see lot of support gfoir lot of hardware you haven't06:50
Romsterpitillo, that could be pruned later.06:51
Romsterafter this issue is fixed.06:51
Nyadyeah I got irritated and so I started enabling a lot of things near midnight last night06:51
NyadRomster, no initrd06:51
Romsteryeah it's a option to try alot get it to work then slowly prune and test.06:51
pitilloRomster, yes that's true, I didn't thought on that06:52
Romsterok so your trying to boot with the bios saying first device usb hdd?06:52
Romsterpitillo, s/thought/think06:52
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Nyadhere is my grub.  root (hd2,1)   kernel  /boot/vmlinuz  root=/dev/sdc2 ro06:53
RomsterNyad, next time you reboot can you confirm you have first device as usb hdd.06:54
Romsterin bios.06:54
Romsterthen it should read the MBR off the usb hdd.06:54
Nyadpitillo, CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDE_SATA  is not in my config file for Crux. all this stuff I am posting is from my ubuntu and only the .config file for the kernel used for crux is from crux06:55
Romsterwhich should load the second stage then the kernel that has usb and fs built in then run.06:55
Romsteri noticed you posted your ubuntu dmesg06:56
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NyadRomster, it isn't the first device. Im using the grub from ubuntu06:58
Romsterso that is on sda0 ?06:58
Romsteryour not booting directly to the usb hdd then.06:58
NyadI boot and use grub to pick the USB06:59
Romsterwhat is grub booting from?07:00
NyadMBR, from sda107:00
NyadIm a little foggy on this. I have windows on sda1. and ubuntu on sdb7 which has /boot/grub07:01
Romsterlike i said your booting from sda but i said sda0 so it's on sda1.07:02
Romsterthe MBR would be on sda0 not sda107:02
Nyadoh ok07:03
Romsterso that calls sdb7 /boot/grub partition07:03
Romsterso you are not directly booting the usb hdd, your using grub menu to then look at the usb hdd after it's booted.07:04
Romsternot too sure what happens then.07:04
pitilloNyad, well, the .config file you posted in the mail is the file where are you checking it or which file is the one you posted in the ML?¿07:05
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Romsteras if you boot from the usb hdd at this point you haven't loaded your ubuntu kernel and there is no usb drivers yet when you try to load the usb hdd kernel07:05
pitillobecause if I make a search of that, I can see it with a CONFIG_BLK_DEV_IDE_SATA=y07:05
RomsterNyad, take a look at this this might give a clue
Romsterjsut doing some googling.07:06
pitilloI am not sure if it can be realated directly to the problem, but if you are using another sata driver, it can make trouble with it07:06
Nyadpitillo, yes you are right it is there. must have had an extra space in the text when I searched07:07
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pitillothen can you test again without it?07:07
NyadI will test now, brb07:09
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Romsterah he isn't using both sata drivers?07:14
Romsterthat causes issues.07:14
pitilloyep, that is why I told him to remove the old libsata driver07:14
Romsterthe libsata i think is the new system if i remember correctly.07:14
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pitillohe has support for the SATA_NV07:14
Romsteror was that the old..07:14
pitilloI think was the old07:14
Romsteri so forget but yeah can not have both.07:15
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pitilloyes, that is why I told, may be isn't the answer, but at least can help to clean a bit his kernel07:16
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Nyadstill not working07:18
pedjaDownload link for e2fsprogs seems to be broken...07:19
pitilloNyad, ummm at least that can be 1 issue. I will take a look to see if I can see something07:19
Nyadk, thanks07:20
tilmanpedja: mmh, works for me07:20
Romsterpedja, i noticed too.07:21
Romster504 gateway time out.07:21
pedjatilman: so it be something wrong on my end.07:23
Romsterpedja, i still can't get it either. you get a 504 gateway time out too?07:25
cptnit's an sf download07:26
pedja"20 redirections exceeded."07:26
cptndo you guys maybe use the same mirror via resolv.conf?07:26
pitilloNyad, try to add CONFIG_PATA_MARVELL=y too07:26
Romsterok is borked pick a spefic mirror07:26
Romster works07:26
pitilloNyad, and PATA_AMD07:27
cptndidn't he want to boo via USB?07:27
Romstercptn, i use optusnet but i was trying to update in my safe-build and that hasn't got that resolv.conf line.07:28
Romstermaybe i should add it.07:28
pitilloyes, but seems that boot order in ubuntu output loads them and may be loading them too, can check if the usb drive is in the same location sdc207:28
cptnpitillo: ah, good call07:28
pedjacptn: i had in /etc/hosts as {dl,downloads,etc},and it worked.Now, to pick another mirror...07:29
pitillothis was only an idea, I think that hardware exists in his comp, and may be doesn't hurt to load it too (it's loading lot of uneeded stuff which can be good, but can give side problems too)07:29
Romsteromg now i can't load crux.nu07:30
Romsterjust as i was about todo a traceroute it loads...07:30
Romstercptn, can you check my updated extract only patch.07:31
Romsterreason i didn't see that download thing is i got PKGMK_DOWNLOAD='yes'07:32
pedjafinally, works :)07:33
Romsteri wish sourceforge would fix that.07:33
Nyadpitillo, shall I test these settings now or not yet07:33
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pitilloNyad, I may try both options now (both related to HDs and may be you can take a clue if detects the usb hardisk but not in the sdc deevice)07:34
cptnRomster: wouldn't that always download the source?07:37
cptnah no07:38
tilmanpedja: yeah, mesh = good :D07:40
Nyadpitillo, you may try them?07:41
pitilloI mean you can try it07:42
pedjaswitch worked for me also , but I can't remember ip adress.any German/Swiss is good :)07:42
pedjaGerman/Swiss server07:42
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Romstercptn, ah... i better double check.07:44
Romstercptn, no..07:44
Romsterit works fine as i suspected. it only downloads if it's missing.07:45
cptnyep, I got that wrong07:45
cptnor rather think the name "download_source" is a bit misleading07:45
Romsterand if it's not allowed to download then it spits the error out.07:45
Romsteri just looked at the other options and saw how they worked.07:45
cptnI have another suggestion though07:46
Romsterand went ah... need to add download_source07:46
cptnbut I can prepare that later07:46
cptnI'd split build_package07:46
Romsterhmm k07:46
cptnso the first, extract only part is a separate function07:46
Romsteri have thought of that...07:46
cptnthis way, you don't have to check twice for the flag07:47
cptnI'll have to try this first though07:47
Romsterbut thought that would be rejected as it's more code than just putting in a stop point.07:47
Romsterit would mean a extract function to that point then a build from that point on.07:47
Romsterjust for a extract only option...07:48
cptnyeah, and maybe a cleanup one07:48
cptnto make it somewhat symetrical07:48
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cptni.e. "build" would neither create nor cleanup 'work'07:48
cptnbut I'll have to see how it looks like first07:48
Romstermust be wiped before building.07:48
Romsterso we know what state it is in.07:48
Romsterwell if you give the go ahead i'll edit again.07:49
Romsterbut mark it on FS i'll see it.07:49
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Nyadpitillo, no luck07:50
pitilloNyad, do you have always the same error?07:50
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pitilloNyad, then it's hard to help you, I am a bit lost, sorry07:51
Romstercptn, function names, extract_work, build_work, remove_work ?07:52
Romstersomething like that split up07:52
Nyadpitillo, thanks for trying :)07:52
Romsteror actually extract_source, build_work, remove_work. or cleanup_work07:53
cptnI think cleanup and remove can be combined07:54
Romsteri was thinking of names for the functions.07:59
cptnother question:08:00
cptnwhy do you even check in main()?08:00
Romstereh ?08:00
Romsterhow else would i call the functions?08:02
cptnpkgmk does that anyway08:02
cptnI mean, it's like in a regular build08:02
cptnexcept that you exit in build_package()08:02
Romsterthat was to avoid rearranging functions.08:03
Romsterthat check in build is what calls the functions.08:03
cptnmmh, okay :-)08:03
cptnI'll have to look closer08:03
Romsteri followed the existing syntax.08:03
cptnwell, all the other options exit directly in main()08:04
cptnbut yours doesn't08:04
Romsteronly thing i do agree on is spliting the functions up.08:04
Romsterah look at the second last patch.08:04
cptnyeah, but it'll never get there :-)08:04
Romsteri removed that on the last patch it's redundant since i exit in the build_package()08:05
Romsterthat was a later thing i followed nipuL's rather badly done version...08:05
Romsterthen i changed function and added in the stop at this point.08:06
cptnI'll comment later this weekend08:06
Romsteri've tried to keep it all clean and everything.08:06
Romsteri just avoided rearranging functions for clarity.08:06
Romsterbut i'll work on a function rearrange and you can see what i come up with.08:07
Romsterideally i should exit in the main loop i don't like how pkgmk exits in functions and not using return signals.08:08
Romsterfunctions should only return a result and maybe print to screen do some task but the man loop is where it should exit.08:09
tilmanthere's no main loop08:09
tilmanit's not a loop08:09
cptn^ loop08:09
Romsterok not a loop but it's where it starts at.08:09
* Rotwan1 wonders whats for main() in bash script O_O08:10
Rotwan1its frigging bash not C08:10
Romsterbash uses ()08:10
Romsterdummy :P08:10
Romsteror you can do function foo {08:10
Romsteror foo() {08:10
Romstertake your pick.08:10
Rotwan1or you can use somefunction() dsomething here08:11
Rotwan1but i still dont see point of main function08:12
tilmandoes anyone use the -r option?08:12
Rotwan1me not08:12
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Romsteri have used it on occasion..08:13
Romstermainly when i redo the tool thain or something and want to rebuild the rest of core.08:14
Romsterwhat is lacking is a -r for pkgadd.08:14
Romsterand adding multiple packages in one hit instead of one at a time.08:14
Romsterbut that's something else..08:14
Romsterso is main a loop or not...08:15
Romsterit doesn't go like a while loop i know but it's the main function of the program.08:15
cptnit's not a loop08:15
Rotwan1which loop?08:16
Romsterit's a main function then.08:16
Rotwan1im loosing track08:16
tilmanRotwan1: n/m08:16
cptntilman: we can't loose him now08:16
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Romsterpkgmk all arguments goto the main loop the main loop picks what function to call, each function eventually calls a function that exits08:17
Romsterand not always exit in the main loop.08:17
Romstererr main function...08:17
tilmani'm sorry already that i brought this up08:17
Romsterthis is pointless.08:18
cptntilman: would a main loop be a feature maybe?08:18
tilmanyes, it doesn't matter08:18
* Romster goes to do something more important.08:18
cptn"pkgmk - ready when you are!"08:18
cptn(idle otherwise)08:19
Rotwangcrappy scons :\08:19
tilmanwhat's wrong/08:19
Rotwangim trying to tweak my vdrift port :P08:20
Rotwangnever mind ;]08:20
RomsterRotwang, i said i'd help if you needed help with it. but you arn't providing any details.08:21
Rotwangthanks, ill do it my self hopefuly08:22
Rotwangits not beyond my mad skillz08:23
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Rotwanghah! I maked it! I told dat iz not beyond my mad skillz \:D/08:50
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Rotwangmy IQ goes down the toilet, i guess ishould go for a walk :}09:01
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j^2hey hey yall09:44
j^2anyone have a vx/virtualbox image of crux?09:45
* Rotwang 09:45
j^2was it pretty easy to get up and running?09:46
j^2i've never used vx before, so i'm curious09:46
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Rotwangset up net via dhcp09:47
cruxbot[contrib.git]: gst-ffmpeg: 0.10.3 -> 0.10.409:47
cruxbot[contrib.git]: cherrypy: 3.0.3 -> 3.1.0rc110:00
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teKwhich port contains pkgverify?10:59
Rotwangtilman: is there some magical place in X where some applications save some shit?11:01
Rotwanghalf day i was porting vdrift11:02
Rotwangit was working ok11:02
Rotwangbut suddenly i started to get segfaults :x11:02
tilmanRotwang: ~/.Xdefaults, ~/.config, ~/.$name ? :p11:03
Rotwangno :<11:04
Rotwangthats weird :\ it worked ok, but suddenly it just stoped to work :\11:04
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rehabdollmaybe you are running windows? :)11:24
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Rotwanghahaha \:D/11:25
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