IRC Logs for #crux Monday, 2008-06-02

nipuLi also do all the in house programming, on a retail tech support salary00:00
nipuLsure the pay sucks, but atleast i'm not some overpriced java drone00:00
Romsteri don't think any hardware fault has stumped me for long anymore.00:00
* drijen avoids java like the plague00:00
nipuLhardware faults are easy00:00
Romsterwhat shits me is fixing windows software it always fails00:00
Romsterand they don't backup so i gotta copy there shit off format then reinstall then copy it back00:01
nipuLyeah, i can't tell when windows is running slow these days00:01
drijenheh, i make linux do things that would make windows shit its pants and scream for mommy00:01
nipuLthe fastest windows machine seems unresponsive to me00:01
RomsternipuL, yeah i've noticed that since i'm on Linux so long now.00:02
drijentoday for instance, i was running seti@hom full bore, playing wow, and had a movie going on the second screen00:02
drijenall four cores maxed, 6+ load, and linux just yawned sleepily00:02
Romsterdrijen, i was too limited in windows now i can do shit windows would bitch at me if i even tried.00:02
Romsteryeah windows sucks at sharing the cpu the time slices are too large.00:03
Romsterand the pirority is a joke.00:03
drijenwhat really amazed me (yes, *nix still amazes me), is that while doing this, my comp squeezed 12 hours of set@home into just under 300:04
nipuLi've converted a large number of my friends to linux, even the on tech ones00:05
nipuLi just chuck spewbuntu on their machine and leave them to it00:05
drijennipuL, i do the same, but with vmware running a seamless office app00:05
Romstereven though it's a noob distro i guess it has it's uses.00:05
drijenso i don't have to train them to interface with others00:05
nipuLi just show them compiz fusion and they're hooked00:06
Romstereven thought that compiz can create graphic problems.00:07
nipuLi get weird artifacts on my widescreen at home00:08
nipuLworks fine on my work pc00:08
drijeni only want the expose funtion00:08
drijencompiz can keep the rest00:09
nipuLi like shade00:09
drijenwindow shade?00:09
drijeni.e. double click?00:09
nipuLno it shows all the windows at once00:10
* drijen googles00:10
nipuLah, expose is what mac calls it00:10
drijeni just want something that when i hit a button it..well does that00:11
nipuLwhere did i get shade from...00:11
drijener.. google has too many hits, argh00:11
drijennipuL, are you sure scale is not a compiz plugin?00:13
nipuLyeah it is, but i mean shade00:14
drijenwhich is it!00:15
* drijen is so confused00:15
nipuLit's scale00:15
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drijennipuL, im finding other cool things thuogh00:18
nipuLi don't play games much these days00:21
nipuLoccasionally i'll complete a task on gts:sa that's about it00:22
nipuLseem all i do in my spare time is ports maintainence :(00:23
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pitillogood morning01:12
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drijenpitillo, good morning sir01:22
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thrice`morning sepen09:43
sepenhuaaha, fucking nice electring-weekend09:44
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sepenmetallica still have the best fucking live concert in the world09:44
aondepends on the definition of best09:46
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cruxbot[contrib.git]: php-gd: enabled freetype2 support10:20
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cruxbot[opt.git]: ruby: don't set debugging CFLAGS.11:29
aonRomster: libsndfile has incorrect md5sum11:32
aonno "O_o", plz fix it11:33
Romsternot by the source file i have.11:33
Romsterso i'll have to downlaod it again11:34
Romsteroh wow dont get smart with me11:34
Romsteri find it strange i have the file no diff it's correct works11:34
aonredownload it11:34
aonor did you already do that?11:34
Romsterdoing that now.11:35
Romsteryour a good one to talk update wine already.11:35
Romsterbut i don't care i got my own port.11:36
aonwell, i was about to do that but you broke my sysup with that md5sum error11:37
Romsternot my fault they changed the source file it was correct when i updated.11:38
Romsterand i keep my source files so how am i gonna detect the change?11:38
aoni haven't been home for three weeks, think i've said it several times that i have rather unavoidable responsibilities at the moment11:38
Romsterany wasy way without redownloading11:38
tilmanMISSING   -rw-r--r--      root/root       usr/lib/ruby/1.8/linux/digest.h11:39
tilmanNEW       -rwxr-xr-x      root/root       usr/lib/ruby/1.8/linux/digest.h11:39
tilmangoddamn retards11:40
aonfinished what?11:40
aonif you're referring to my conscription, then no11:40
aona month to go11:40
Romsterso how can i check if they alter files without downloading?11:40
Romsterbugger that...11:41
aonyou don't want to make the distro look bad, do you11:41
Romsteri got everything else automated and i keep my source files.11:41
Romstermeh i'll write my own script to look at the atime on the archives.11:41
Romsterno one else does.11:42
aonjust stop causing havoc11:42
Romsterexcuse fucking me...11:42
Romsteri can tell i'm not wanted here.11:42
teKhello? stop it. both.11:42
cruxbot[contrib.git]: libsndfile: fix changed md5sum11:45
aonplease stop wondering why you're not liked and/or given extra responsibilities if you react like that to bug reports11:45
tilmanRomster: when you're on vacation for 3 weeks you don't want us to file abusive bug reports against your ports, do you?11:45
aonyet expect others to take shit from you for having more important things to do11:46
tilmanRomster: #290 in case it's not obvious ;)11:46
aonexcept i wasn't on vacation11:46
teKsomeone did not his/her milk today in the morning :>11:46
Romstergo and bitch about udev being out of date too while your at it aon i'm already on 122... lets see what else i could dig up.11:47
aoni'm not bitching about stuff being out of date11:47
aoni just reported that one of your ports didn't work11:47
Romsterhave i filed abusive reports?11:47
Romsterone i added some sarcasm to it bout you obviously failed to see that.11:48
predatorfreakArgh you two.11:48
predatorfreakCalm down11:48
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rehabdollcatfight \o/11:49
aonlet's see if this is permanent11:49
sepenand the winner is ....11:50
predatorfreakaon: Forgive me for preaching, but Romster tends to get hot under the collier, you could really just go easy on him and you'd avoid 90% of the conflicts11:51
predatorfreakoohh damn I'm on your shitlist sepen :D11:51
predatorfreakyasm got me there11:51
predatorfreakBetter fix that.11:51
sepenpredatorfreak, me too11:51
predatorfreakaon: I don't want to join this war anymore than I already have11:51
predatorfreakBut suffice to say you could be a bit more polite11:52
sepenpredatorfreak, also note that I have issues on the report too11:52
aonpredatorfreak: i choose not to11:52
predatorfreakaon: Then you deserve what you get, IMO.11:52
aonERROR opt/lesstif .............. missing dependency: xorg11:52
aonbeech[~/dev/crux/git/opt/lesstif]$ grep xorg Pkgfile11:53
aon# Depends on: xorg11:53
sepenaon, <sepen> predatorfreak, also note that I have issues on the report too11:53
aonyes, but when was that last updated?11:53
aonah, it says it right there11:53
sepenJune 02 2008, 00:31:1411:53
aonbeech[~/dev/crux/git/opt/lesstif]$ prtverify .11:54
predatorfreaksepen: I'll also fix the mplayer depends11:54
predatorfreakand nvidia depends XD11:54
sepennice, I'll take a look11:54
sepenIm still tired since the getafe music festival11:55
aonyes, lesstif totally is depending on xorg11:55
aonyou must have something wrong there11:55
predatorfreakoohh yasm is out of date too11:55
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sepenaon, yeah I should fix the repo_dendencies variable on my script11:57
predatorfreaksepen: o.O Those depends are already in mplayer11:58
cruxbot[opt.git]: xemacs: maintainer name unscandinavized11:58
aonso it's easier to comprehend how bad i am from that list11:58
sepenyeah, I thinking on emacs/22.2/etc/NEWS.*11:59
sepenimho totally junk files12:00
aonyou asked for it...12:00
sepenah ok12:01
sepenaon, I've the same problem with xfce-about12:01
aonnow i don't have to type it all again every month12:01
cruxbot[opt.git]: xemacs: removed redundant dependency on xorg12:03
sepenaon, well, in this case, I think you should be more comprensive with others <aon> no "O_o", plz fix it12:04
sepenaon, I don't like wars12:04
sepenand I think Romster is doing a great job12:04
aonso what?12:04
aonit did get fixed eventually, didn't it?12:04
predatorfreakaon: If you're going to be a grouch.12:04
predatorfreakJust don't come in here.12:04
predatorfreakI'm being harsh, but honestly, if you can't be polite over minor things like that, it's fairly annoying12:05
aonprobably, yeah12:05
predatorfreakaon: and I'm not trying to be mean here, it's just really annoying to see these (utterly pointless) skirmishes.12:06
aoni guess i was a bit rude, after all romster has been kind enough to remind me of updates that i already know of and making unnecessary remarks while at it for the whole year i have been a bit less active12:06
aonehm, s/ing/e/12:07
aonof course core can always sack me and take romster instead since he apparently is maintaining my ports in parallel too12:08
predatorfreakaon: He gets annoyed when he sees ports not getting updated.12:09
predatorfreakDon't turn that kind of minor stuff into a personal feud.12:09
sepenyeah, but I think he tries to do it not as attack12:09
predatorfreakHe's just trying to help out.12:09
sepenhe has this personallity12:09
aonand i have this personality12:10
predatorfreakaon: I can be a hothead too, that doesn't mean I'm an impolite person over minor things.12:10
sepenI think he tries to improve although sometimes is annoying12:10
predatorfreakForgive me, but it just seems childish to start a skirmish over this kind of shit.12:11
aonmm, i was just making a counter-remark to his last bug report12:11
aoni don't really care if he is offended or not12:11
predatorfreakaon: Then stay off IRC.12:11
aonnope, won't do that12:12
predatorfreakIf you can't be polite then you might as well not talk.12:12
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aonyeah, i know12:13
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cruxbot[opt.git]: pal: updated to version 0.4.112:25
cruxbot[opt.git]: yasm: Update to 0.7.1, fix man location.12:29
cruxbot[opt.git]: mplayer: Update to SVN revision 26914.12:29
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cptnsepen: how about you look at the actual Pkgfiles, instead just pointing at the repoverify warnings?13:00
sepencptn, was only to give a reference due to aon comments to Romster13:02
sepenand yeah, might be I have to look directly pkgfile's13:02
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cptnsepen: that's what I mean13:04
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cptnsepen: all the crap he pulled lately13:04
cptnlook at contrib/transcode13:04
cptnor qt4, which he blew up from 80 to 100 lines...13:04
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cptnsepen: "great work" is not having 200 ports13:05
cptnIMHO, of course13:05
cptnit's about doing good ports13:05
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cptnalso creating13:06
sepencptn, I was talking about opt maintaining13:06
sepenRomster is in contrib13:06
aoncontrib shouldn't be total vomit either, though13:06
aonat least one user has been kicked out of it for not being up to spec13:06
sepenwell, nothing more to add13:06
cptnsepen: yeah, but you have a major impact on contrib13:06
cptnsepen: you're a contrib maintainer, as such you can help to improve that collection too13:07
cptnsepen: take the openssl/wine case he brought up13:07
cptnsepen: he didn't take the 2 min to search the web to come up with the relevant bug report13:08
cptnit was just complaining for the sake of complaining13:08
cptnif that's what you call "great work", oh well13:08
sepenbut sometimes seems like report a bug is the same that attacks13:09
cptnthat's one of the things people don't like about Romster13:09
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sepenwho people don't like Romster?13:10
cptnnot sure13:10
cptnwho said that people don't like Romster?13:11
sepenhe's trying to do thing in the better way he known13:11
aoncptn: he has realized that himself apparently13:11
predatorfreakcptn: Romster has contributed almost half of the total commits to contrib for the last couple years13:11
cptnpredatorfreak: well, 150 out of 200 ports are not packaged by him13:11
predatorfreakIt's only more recently that you guys have been getting on his case over this shit13:11
predatorfreakcptn: Jue's stats prove how much of a force he is in contrib <<13:12
cptnso what?13:12
cptnI will agree that he's doing a lot of work13:12
cptnthat's what the # of commits show13:12
predatorfreakcptn: You guys bullshit him every time you see something you don't like that he's done.13:13
sepenimho people in a comunity should be more polite13:13
sepenjust I want to say13:13
j^2hey cptn  :D13:13
cptnhey j^2 :-)13:13
predatorfreakFor one, a number of the things you get on his case about are not formal policies.13:13
cptnbut common sense13:13
predatorfreakcptn: Like?13:13
cptnpredatorfreak: if it's as easy to download a tar.gz, don't force the user to install lzma13:14
cptnjust to install a package13:14
Rotwangsepen: hi13:14
predatorfreakI can't think of too many things, excluding the Optional/Nice To Have stuff that could be "common sense"13:14
sepenRotwang, heyo13:14
predatorfreakcptn: Old freaking news.13:14
predatorfreakand part of the problem with lzma is that there's 0 support for unpacking it in pkgmk right now.13:15
Rotwangsepen: sorry for little offtopic, but i might have been mistaken about &> redirection and let being deprecated13:15
predatorfreakSimply because tilman wants to wait for liblzma and libarchive to support lzma.13:15
cptnpredatorfreak: or for example he keeps adding hacks to Pkgfiles13:15
predatorfreakcptn: If they fix legitimate problems how is that bad?13:16
cptnpredatorfreak: like recently, when sdl_glx broke13:16
predatorfreakI could list ports in opt with hacks in them13:16
sepenRotwang, ohh np13:16
cptnhe didn't even search for a solution for 5 minutes13:16
cptnjust did a s/-Os/-O2/13:16
sepencptn, seems that contributors are the shit of crux13:16
cptnof course, it wouldn't work for -O3 eather13:16
cptnsepen: why do you say that?13:16
predatorfreakcptn: If no one told him, how is he supposed to know -O3 won't work?13:16
cptnpredatorfreak: it took me 5 minutes to find a bug report, with a patch13:17
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predatorfreakaon: Do you build every port you maintain with -O1/-O2/-O3/-Os?13:17
predatorfreakI think not.13:17
cptnthat's not the point13:17
aonno, but i also don't hardcode hacks to replace some cflags in the pkgfiles13:17
cptnbut if there's a bug report, you could just take the 5 minutes and search google13:18
Rotwan1<offtop>sepen: sorry for little offtopic, but i might have been mistaken about &> redirection and let being deprecated13:18
Rotwan1i judged too fast looking at people opinions and some wikis</offtop>13:18
predatorfreakcptn: How many things to you search Google for when you get bug reports?13:18
predatorfreak-t +d13:18
cptnpredatorfreak: I search for the problem13:18
predatorfreakThat's not always the first thing to pop to mind.13:18
aoni thought it's a very common practice13:18
predatorfreakEspecially if someone reports the problem directly.13:18
cptnwell, that's what I'd call common sense13:19
cptnif there's a bug report, I _always_ try to understand the problem13:19
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predatorfreakand what you guys do I'd call bullying <<13:19
cptnfinding a minimal hack which hides the problem is silly13:19
predatorfreakYou bullshit him constantly over this stuff13:19
pitilloaon, can you confirm this for lesstiff? xorg-libxt xorg-libxext in its deps instead of xorg?13:19
teKpitillo: was it you that told me about dhcpd ipv6 issues?13:19
predatorfreakcptn: Pointing out mistakes and suggesting improvements is one thing.13:20
predatorfreakBullshitting him and such is a whole other thing.13:20
aonpitillo: i'll check it soon13:20
pitilloteK, I wasn't. I told you (this is the second time) I readed here some time ago... sorry13:20
pitilloteK, I think can be possible to be surrounde_r?13:20
teKcan't keep you and XX apart. dammit13:20
predatorfreakand it's not just you, it's aon, it's jue, it's tilman.13:20
teKrehabdoll: did you tell me about the dhcp ipv6 issues?13:20
predatorfreakAll of you guys gang up and bullshit him over things instead of being polite about it.13:21
pitillomay be him xD13:21
cptnpredatorfreak: just look how he behaves here on this channel13:21
predatorfreakcptn: Always after one of you sparks him off I've noticed <<13:21
pitilloteK, I am the cacti one xD13:21
predatorfreakand behind his back you're bad-talking him.13:21
teKpitillo: godddddammit *g*13:22
teKtrying to catch up right NOW13:22
pitilloteK, I have it working at work atm (upadted and fresh install and it's working fine) The bad point was the post-install script13:23
teKfirst I gotta answer fan mail "why did you switch back to 3.1.x in dhcp"13:23
pitilloI think can be nicer to put that in the readme and let the user do things like that instead of manolo's aproach, which was usefull in his case13:23
teKoh, btw I did NOT receive an answer13:23
predatorfreakcptn: In addition, even though I was thoroughly annoyed by the sqlite3 bullcrap, I didn't use it later as a springboard to bad-talk you guys. It might have pissed me off, but I got over it and let it go.13:27
predatorfreakcptn: You guys don't seem to just let it go with Romster.13:27
cptnthe sqlite guys haven't even ack'ed it13:27
cptnand mozilla's bugtracking has a patch to drop the version check13:27
predatorfreakcptn: Seems to be proving my laziness theory.13:27
predatorfreakRegardless, that's old news.13:28
aoni fail to see why we should let it go with him13:28
cptnpredatorfreak: so what, if you're proven wrong it's old news?13:28
predatorfreakcptn: They haven't acknowledged it either way.13:28
predatorfreakDon't start boasting.13:28
aoni don't think we'd let go on anyone else if they did stuff like that13:28
predatorfreakIt wouldn't matter either way, it's a means to an end.13:29
cptnexcept that one party suggested a patch to amend it13:29
cptnand that was mozilla, not sqlite13:29
cruxbot[contrib.git]: fim: fix prtverify warnings13:29
predatorfreakcptn: I really don't give a fuck.13:29
cptnbottomline is, what comes around goes around13:29
predatorfreakIt was a damn analogy.13:29
predatorfreakNot a reason to restart this crap.13:29
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aonfor someone who doesn't give a fuck you seem to care quite a lot, based on the length of the discussion13:30
predatorfreakThe point is you're treating Romster badly, over some fuckups, which after you guys severely bitched at him he fixed anyway.13:30
aonsame goes for romster, he always says that he doesn't care as he has his own ports13:30
predatorfreakIt's not like he said "Fuck it I'm not fixing it my way or the highway."13:30
aonfor over 300 days now13:30
predatorfreakHe caved in, did what you guys wanted13:31
predatorfreakand fixed the problem.13:31
aonof course13:31
aonsince that was a real problem13:31
predatorfreakYet all you keep doing is bullshitting him.13:31
predatorfreakand bullshitting him.13:31
aonwe're not really bullshitting him, rather trying to make you understand that the number of commits or ports isn't the most important thing13:32
aonimo, at least13:33
predatorfreakYou know what, I should just give you guys a taste of it, whenever one of you fucks up I'll hold it against you for a couple months, even after you've fixed it.13:33
predatorfreakSee how you guys enjoy being bullshitted for things you fixed <<13:33
aon(someone from core should speak up if this isn't the case so i can run very far away)13:33
cptnpredatorfreak: no, if we keep repeatedly screwing up13:33
cptnthat's something different13:33
cptnpredatorfreak: who is contrib/transcode fixed?13:33
predatorfreakcptn: Most of these changes went in with NO ONE bitching.13:33
cptnah yeah, right13:33
predatorfreakIt's only more recently that you guys seem to be picking apart his ports to bitch at.13:34
predatorfreakThe lzma shit was in for months before tilman bitched about it.13:34
aoni really don't have time to pick them apart13:34
aoni just noticed one flaw while doing sysup13:34
aonis it really so over the top to report it?13:34
predatorfreakaon: and then went above just a polite "the md5sum is wrong."13:34
cptnaon: you have to add "how does that make contrib look" to make it polite13:35
predatorfreakcptn: Better yet he can just say the md5sum is wrong13:35
predatorfreakThings happen and people reupload files.13:35
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predatorfreakThere's no reason to get on someone's case over that.13:36
cptnI can only repeat what I said: people get treated the same way they treat others13:36
predatorfreakIf you guys have serious problems with the way his ports are written, tell him politely what your concerns are.13:36
predatorfreakcptn: Yeah, only you spark him off.13:36
aoncptn: i did13:36
aoncptn: and apparently he's forgotten about his last bug report and took it as a major offense13:36
cptnpredatorfreak: if one guys sparks 5 guys of, why is it the 5 guys fault?13:36
predatorfreakcptn: Because you guys always start it?13:37
aonno we don't13:37
cptnyeah right13:37
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predatorfreakYeah, you do.13:37
cptnpredatorfreak: we don't, he always does13:37
predatorfreakI could list the last handful of things13:37
predatorfreakwhere your conduct was wrong and impolite.13:37
aoni was 800km north from my home and without a computer when he last started it13:37
pitillothere are ways and ways to tell things... this sounds like a college discussion in a comunity13:38
predatorfreakaon: A simple "I was away from home, sorry" would suffice.13:38
teKCRUX - eatin in ur skinz since 200813:38
aonpredatorfreak: it's getting a bit old when you repeat it every weekend for a year13:38
predatorfreakIf it's still a valid problem it should get fixed so people stop complaining.13:39
pitilloand what about lett other fix that?13:39
predatorfreakThat's your fault for not dedicating the time to fix it or letting someone else fix it.13:39
aonpitillo: that's exactly what i did13:39
teKsepen: your prtverify tells that dsh is missing netkit-rsh, how come?13:39
pitilloaon, I think it's a good solution when someone is out13:39
sepenteK, I've issues on the last revision code, sorry13:39
predatorfreakIf you know you don't have the time, try to offload some work.13:39
predatorfreakI'd be more than happy to pick up some slack around here, as I'm sure others would be.13:40
aonthat just hasn't been the normal practice13:40
pitilloand in the other way, with 1 time telling another peson that you are off, it's enought too. Comunication is the way in a comunity IMHO13:40
predatorfreakaon: Yeah and it's starting to become a problem.13:40
predatorfreakWe have maintainers who can't commit enough time to maintain the number of ports they have.13:41
aonperhaps i should have sent a mail to crux{,-devel}@ a year ago but it wouldn't have helped in romster's case13:41
predatorfreakThat's a problem.13:41
aonsince he lacks reading comprehension13:41
predatorfreakaon: Yet another underhanded attack at his intelligence13:41
cptnthe problem is that people have different expectations13:41
aonpredatorfreak: but a real problem nevertheless13:42
cptnsome hang out here and search for problems13:42
cptnothers just come with it13:42
cptnerr , cope13:42
predatorfreakI'm very thoroughly disgusted with you guys right now but I'm not taking pop-shots <<13:42
aonso why do you keep mentioning it?13:42
predatorfreakaon: This stuff is fucking ridiculuous.13:42
predatorfreakYou guys are acting like five year olds over some blasted Pkgfiles.13:43
predatorfreakand you get angry every time he gets defensive over this shit.13:43
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predatorfreakJust build a list of your greps with his ports.13:43
predatorfreakCompile it, word it politely.13:43
pitillocptn, what do you mean with that? can be understood in many ways, and the most doesn't so good, at least for me (the ball toucher)13:43
predatorfreakand give it to him.13:43
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aonbut the point is that even if it causes you orgasms that someone has 200 ports, it doesn't mean that everything the person does is good13:43
predatorfreakHe'll fix the problems.13:43
predatorfreakaon: I never said that.13:43
predatorfreakI'm criticising your handling of the problems.13:43
pitilloaon, that means something too. He is trying to remove others some work, giving them good ports (may be with errors, but he is working for the comunity too)13:44
aondoubt it would've changed much if i was more neutral13:44
predatorfreakaon: It would have.13:44
aondoubt it13:45
predatorfreakIf I came up to you and said "HEY FUCKER" you instantly react differently than if I say "Hi"13:45
cptnpitillo: sorry, didn't understand the question13:45
aonsince it was such a good spot for complaining about wine being broken13:45
pitillocptn, your sentence can be understood in many senses13:45
cptnpitillo: which one?13:45
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predatorfreakaon: and you started that with your "no o_O, just fix it." shit.13:45
pitillo(at least from here... I mean I came here or at fs with what you can understand I am attacking you)13:46
predatorfreakHe took that the wrong way and interpreted it as an attack13:46
predatorfreakYou could have just left it at "The md5sum is wrong"13:46
cruxbot[contrib.git]: wyrd: fix prtverify warnings13:46
pitilloif I report something, or if I talk about something my objective isn't to attack the maintainer, a person or the core team13:46
cptnpitillo: no, not at all. That's not what I mean13:47
cptnor meant13:47
cptnpitillo: no complains about you at all :-)13:47
cptnerr, complaints13:47
sepenteK, nice! and sorry one more time for my issues with repoverify13:47
predatorfreakI'm sure by now there's complaints lobbied against me <<13:47
pitilloI try to let other take a look over something I found strange (and I am quite sure the most times I can't be right, but people can explain thngs and do thing right for CRUX)13:47
pitillocptn, yeah, I am talking from my point of view, but I really mean, if someone in general reports a bug/error/problem, depends in how it reports13:48
teKsepen: no problem (*btw* fixing wyrd right now to use /etc instead of /usr/etc *ducks* + *runs*)13:48
cptnpitillo: absolutely13:48
Rotwangsepen: where is repoverify script?13:48
sepen1 moment13:48
predatorfreakcptn: Then why do you think you guys can get away with angrily reporting things to Romster?13:48
cptndid I say that?13:49
predatorfreakIt's not like I'm asking for the world here, I'm asking for you guys to be polite.13:49
cptnI'm polite if he is13:49
sepenRotwang, checkout this svn://
predatorfreakcptn: Childish policy.13:49
cruxbot[contrib.git]: wyrd: use /etc instead of /usr/etc13:49
predatorfreakaon: See above.13:49
sepenRotwang, and list that directory, I've some more scripts here13:50
cptnpredatorfreak: how so?13:50
aonpredatorfreak: you're not that polite at us right now either13:50
predatorfreakIf you guys are what we have for core, no offence, but I vote to kick you all out.13:50
aoni'm not in core13:50
Rotwangsepen: k, thx13:50
predatorfreakaon: I'm not attacking you guys, I'm trying to get you to understand why he's getting pissed off at you guys.13:50
predatorfreakand you guys are acting like it's all his fault.13:50
predatorfreakLike nothing you do has any bearing on him getting angry.13:50
pitillocptn, if someone tell you something in a wrong way, you must tell him yo change that acctitude and be polite, I think answering bad to him, only points to you at the same level13:50
aonwell, why aren't the other users getting angry, then?13:51
cptnpitillo: yeah; I've tried that with Romster many times13:51
aonthere are others maintaining ports and reporting bugs too13:51
pitillocptn, I am quite sure.13:51
cptnpitillo: and it works fine for a while, then there's another incident13:51
predatorfreakaon: Because you guys don't badger them?13:51
predatorfreakand hold past offences against them?13:51
aonand what might the reason be for that?13:51
cptnaon: now we're getting somewhere!13:51
predatorfreakaon: Because you don't care about their bugs as much as Romster's Pkgfile formatting choices?13:51
Rotwangsepen: lot of scripting yopu have done :P, nice13:52
aonfor the last time, i haven't even looked at romster's pkgfiles13:52
aoni couldn't care less unless they totally butcher my system13:52
cptnpredatorfreak: what's your' goal here BTW?13:52
sepenRotwang, well some of they still are in plained or beta status13:52
predatorfreakI'm using that as a general compliant against tilman/jue/cptn.13:52
predatorfreakcptn: ... See above.13:52
aoni've never commented on his pkgfile formatting13:52
predatorfreakI explained it 50 times already13:52
sepenIm still waiting for some responses in crux-devel ML13:52
pitilloaon, then you can't valorate his work (on 200ports)13:52
sepencore responses13:53
predatorfreakIt's pretty obvious, if I have to explain it again, you guys are a lost cost.13:53
pitillovalorate/evaluate ?13:53
aonpitillo: no, but i also can't make myself think that he's doing good work just based on the amount of noise he generates13:53
aonehm, predatorfreak13:53
aonnot pitillo13:53
predatorfreakaon: He is.13:54
pitilloaon, of course, not with the amount, but if you check them, you will see that the most are good ports13:54
predatorfreakThe majority of his stuff is maintained fine.13:54
pitilloyeah, and good maintained13:54
predatorfreakYou guys pick on 5-10% of his stuff13:54
pitillopredatorfreak, nop, they have stuff to pick13:54
aonsince i haven't looked at his work, i only see how offensive he is13:54
pitilloand depends in people lifes too13:55
predatorfreakThis isn't even including his personal repository, which is just as well maintained.13:55
aonto me he's just like someone with 10 ports and a mouth as loud13:55
pitilloaon, it can be as offensive as you want him to be13:55
predatorfreakaon: He owns almost half of contrib.13:55
cptnaon: and he guards them13:55
sepenaon, offensive?13:55
aonthat's another thing13:56
Rotwangcontrib is not something you own13:56
pitilloaon, may be boring or weigth or hard head, but not offensive13:56
sepenaon, i.e;;a=blobdiff;f=blender/Pkgfile;h=4b61eedd5371fa13573c49a1b99587501497eb16;hp=cbe1f3fe1df0f19345203532fe5520ed497f036c;hb=35f55a2b11ddeb97111acdc08e5f9f7ffc228552;hpb=afc687564bfcb116ce43750fdb00a3f57de02a6213:56
sepenIm glad with Romster reports to me13:56
aonfrom what i've heard he's just bumping packages originally made by others13:56
sepennot agree13:56
cptnsepen: but exactly that commit13:56
cptnsepen: he didn't say: "hey, there's some dependencies you missed"13:56
cptnsepen: he say: "I wonder why you didn't find it, with safe-env and all"13:57
sepenbut he did the work13:57
cptnthat's the point13:57
sepencptn, hmmm could be13:57
cptnhe does a lot of work13:57
predatorfreakcptn: He feels like safe-env is stealing a bit of his thunder since he had safe-build first.13:57
predatorfreakBut it's harmless.13:57
sepenyeah, but is not all his work black or white13:58
cptnpredatorfreak: now, to you that is harmless13:58
predatorfreakHe did the work, reported the problem and didn't get into a lengthy bitching fest13:58
cptnjust a matter of the POV I guess13:58
sepenplease excuse me for a while I need to part, I return as soon as possible13:58
predatorfreakSaying "sepen should test all his ports in safe-env!"13:58
cptnsepen: :-)13:58
predatorfreaketc, etc.13:58
predatorfreakYou guys go outright and blast him.13:58
cptnpredatorfreak: he just enjoys telling others that they're wrong13:58
pitillopredatorfreak, you know when romster started with that script?13:58
predatorfreakcptn: If he provides a fix that's fine?13:59
rehabdollteK: yes (dhcpd)13:59
cptnpredatorfreak: he doesn't13:59
pitillopredatorfreak, depends in the fix and how is it showed13:59
predatorfreakcptn: Oh? He generally suggests fixes for Pkgfile problems he spots.13:59
pitilloat least to be readed, understood and thought by others13:59
predatorfreakpitillo: Well yes, but generally his fixes are fine.13:59
cptnpredatorfreak: I'd point you to examples, but then you'd say "old news"13:59
predatorfreakBring your arguments to the table.14:00
pitillopredatorfreak, I don't tell the other. I mean how must be they shown IMO14:00
pitillothings depends in how are they told14:00
aon21:57 < predatorfreak> cptn: He feels like safe-env is stealing a bit of his thunder since he had safe-build first.14:00
cptnpredatorfreak: I already did, and you didn't listen14:00
aonexactly this "ownership instead of progress" crap he tries to pull is getting on our nerves14:00
predatorfreakcptn: Your arguments don't hold up.14:01
cptnold news14:01
predatorfreakaon: As I said, it's harmless, it's not like he's attacking anyone over it.14:01
predatorfreakHe's just pointing shit out.14:01
predatorfreakIt'd be within my rights to say "Huh, I wonder why cptn didn't notice X because of Z"14:01
teKrehabdoll: when IPv6 was disabled in the kernel, DHCPD was not runnable, even with -6, right?14:01
predatorfreakand that'd be a relatively polite thing to say.14:02
teKI only remember, I agreed with you14:02
predatorfreakIt's not like I'm saying "Damn, cptn must be an idiot for not noticing X because of Z."14:02
aonpredatorfreak: same thing everytime someone wants to take something from him and put it to opt14:02
predatorfreakaon: the qt4 crap was an embarrassment.14:02
aoni don't think you're even reading what i'm typing, though14:02
predatorfreakHe had it in contrib for a long time.14:02
cptnpredatorfreak: he took it from my private repository14:03
predatorfreakand that was a glorious case of sip not contacting him.14:03
cptnpredatorfreak: without telling me14:03
cptnsip took it from mine too14:03
predatorfreakcptn: People do that all the time.14:03
predatorfreakWe already debated this shit though14:03
cptnyeah, but Romster gave sip a hard time14:03
predatorfreakand the conclusion was both sides were wrong.14:03
cptnwhen he did 100% the same with me14:03
predatorfreakSip for not noticing.14:03
cptnpredatorfreak: sip didn't at all!14:03
predatorfreakRomster for being a bit of a prick over it.14:03
cptnso being a prick is fine if he does it?14:03
aonapparently so14:04
predatorfreakIt's bad.14:04
predatorfreakBut damnit.14:04
rehabdolleven with -4, yes14:04
predatorfreakBoth parties were at fault.14:04
rehabdollyou had to disable ipv6 in dhcpd14:04
cptnpredatorfreak: it would have been a minor thing14:04
predatorfreakBOTH did stupid things.14:04
cptnpredatorfreak: but after Romster realized it was in opt, he kept it and complained loudly about sip14:04
cptninstead of telling him14:04
cptnonly when we complained about the duplicate he reacted14:05
predatorfreakBecause he felt strongly that he was being ripped off for all his hard work maintaining it.14:05
cruxbot[contrib.git]: fluxbox: fix prtverify warning14:05
cptnHARD WORK14:05
cptnhe even added a no-op patch14:05
predatorfreakYou know what, fuck it.14:05
predatorfreakYou guys are lost causes.14:05
predatorfreakI'm not wasting anymore time.14:05
aonagain, no one else get's so pissed off about "losing" ports14:05
predatorfreakSuffice to say, you both need to work on your manners.14:06
teKhow 'bout cooling off and rediscussing this tomorrow  per email?14:06
predatorfreakLike e-mail will help.14:06
cptnteK: I agree with predatorfreak here14:06
aonlike i'll discuss anything via email14:06
predatorfreakIt's obvious that they believe it's Romster's fault.14:06
teKit will not bother me, it's boring and pointless14:06
aoncuz it is14:06
predatorfreakand it's obvious I believe they're reacting wrong to this shit.14:06
teKmy 2 cents :>14:06
cptnpredatorfreak and Romster are buddies, that won't change14:06
cptnI think that's nice, I'd probably do the same for a friend of mine14:07
predatorfreakcptn: Even if we weren't, why wouldn't I defend someone from this shit?14:07
predatorfreakI'd do this if it were sepen, pitillo, you, anyone else in here.14:07
aonbecause then you'd see that they actually are wrong?14:07
predatorfreakIf I felt they were being attacked for no good reason, I would stand up for them.14:07
aonhe wasn't attacked14:08
predatorfreakYes, he was.14:08
aonnot any more than he has attacked us in the past14:08
aona lot less, actually14:08
predatorfreakI would classify all the grab you guys have thrown at him as attacking him.14:08
predatorfreak-grab +crap14:08
predatorfreakDamnit I'm typing too fast14:08
aonhehe, but you surely wouldn't do that for everyone else14:08
predatorfreakYes, I would.14:09
predatorfreakI've stood up for other people against Romster when I felt he was wrong.14:09
aonwhen, for example?14:09
cptnyeah when?14:09
predatorfreakIrk I'd have to dig through my logs.14:09
predatorfreakI don't keep mental records of this shit <<14:10
pitilloyou are mixing things14:10
pitillocptn, aren't you aon's friend?14:10
cptnwell, we're friends on facebook if that counts14:10
pitilloomg cptn14:11
predatorfreakcptn: Bias :P14:11
pitillodon't joke14:11
aonso what, btw?14:11
pitillohow many time to dyou mean aon?14:11
predatorfreakSo essentially both of us are opinionated, duh.14:11
predatorfreakBias is normal.14:11
pitilloyou are friends, time gives you that14:11
aonexcept my buddy is in core and your's is in contrib14:11
predatorfreakBut the fact that I'm willing to act like an adult and not hold shit against people is the difference here.14:11
aoneven if you aren't an adult for real14:12
predatorfreakaon: I don't care where their community standing is.14:12
aonmust be tough for you14:12
pitilloyes, that's the point for all people in a comunity, adult people acting with respect14:12
predatorfreakI don't judge based on rank, I judge based on how people are acting.14:12
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aonthat was a joke obviously14:12
Rotwangcontrib > core :D14:12
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predatorfreakaon: Also, I'm less than a year away from being 18.14:12
pitilloand more in little comunities, where things must be talked and thought14:13
Rotwangcontrib has highest number of ports, so we win14:13
aonif i cared about community standing i'd actually give you guys some respect14:13
* Rotwang grabs his ak-4714:14
predatorfreakAll I'm asking for is that you guys suck it up and be polite.14:14
pitilloaon, you mean, you don't see this liek a comunity?14:14
aonof course i do14:14
cptnpitillo: I think he was joking14:14
predatorfreakI think you'd find 99% of your attitude related problems with him would wither out and die.14:14
aonbeing polite gets me nowhere14:14
predatorfreakI'm not asking for you to forgive his every dumb action.14:14
predatorfreakEven I'd admit he's made some stupid choices.14:14
aonin a nutshell you are14:14
aonif you ask us to suck it up14:14
cruxbot[contrib.git]: trac: fix prtverify warnings14:15
aonsince his dumb actions are what we complain about14:15
predatorfreakBut being polite in handling the problems would be a large step towards him not considering you guys assholes <<14:15
predatorfreakaon: Complaining is one thing.14:15
predatorfreakBitching is another.14:15
aonso what if he thinks we're assholes?14:15
predatorfreakYou guys complain, then proceed to bitch.14:15
aonhe'll _fork_?14:15
cptnoh yeah, the forking14:15
predatorfreakaon: At this rate if this kind of crap keeps up.14:16
predatorfreakI'm abandoning ship.14:16
cptntalking about forking here doesn't exactly give you respect either14:16
predatorfreakand going back to Arch.14:16
aonah, i thought you're _forking_ too14:16
predatorfreakBecause I honestly can't deal with the F'ing drama.14:16
Rotwangarch is the best14:16
predatorfreakCRUX isn't the loving community it used to be.14:16
teKfork to Noah's Ark? *scnr*14:16
thrice`jesus christ, I use CRUX to avoid political shit like this14:16
predatorfreakIt's become a giant dramafest.14:16
aonwell, irl i'm quite political, so what can you do14:16
thrice`can we plz now ruin it?14:17
cptnpredatorfreak: there were always people who triggered such things14:17
pitilloa fork is really needed in the way things are done now?  xD14:17
aonthrice`: that's what we're doing14:17
predatorfreakcptn: You guys are core.14:17
thrice`er, s/now/not14:17
aoni'm not core14:17
predatorfreakIt's your job to be firm but not assholes.14:17
predatorfreakaon: I didn't direct that at you14:17
predatorfreakand I heard you the first time.14:17
aonso i can be a firm asshole? cool14:17
cptnaon: :-)14:17
cptnaon: I didn't want to go there14:17
predatorfreakaon: It helps if your polite.14:17
predatorfreakI might only be opt, but I try to be polite.14:18
predatorfreakI get pissed off at shit, but I generally calm down later.14:18
thrice`we need dictator tilman to hit his hammer14:18
predatorfreakaon: Nitpicking my English doesn't win the fight.14:18
aoni thought it would14:18
aondamn, must think of something else, then14:18
predatorfreakI make mistakes, we all do.14:18
teKI'll come back, if you stopped wasting my precious bandwidth14:18
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cptnaon: remember to bully tek when he's back14:19
predatorfreakcptn, aon, tilman: All I want from you guys is to just back off, let him simmer.14:19
predatorfreakand report things nicely.14:19
predatorfreakThat's the best thing you guys can do.14:20
predatorfreakI'm not asking for you guys to make him a member of core or someshit, I'm asking for some civility.14:20
pitilloand think in the other person for them too14:20
pitillohe must understand things can't be done as fast as we can desire14:21
cptnpitillo: it's actually slowing everthing down14:21
cptnpitillo: since people get annoyed, and spend less time on CRUX14:21
pitillothere is a need of a clean comunication channel for all people in the comunity14:21
predatorfreakcptn: Sigh, let me explain this to me.14:21
predatorfreak-me +you14:21
predatorfreakDamnit I'm loosing my mind14:21
cptnlook, it's simple14:21
predatorfreakHe gets pissed off at you guys14:21
predatorfreakYou guys fight with him14:21
predatorfreakFan the flames14:21
predatorfreakand make him consider you guys to be ganging up on him.14:22
predatorfreakIf you'd just back off14:22
predatorfreaklet him rant14:22
predatorfreakand come back later, politely ask again14:22
predatorfreakHe'd be fine.14:22
predatorfreakand you'd both get what you want14:22
pitillopredatorfreak, 2 can't fight if 1 don't want14:22
cptnnow I agree that this would probably cost the least energy14:22
jesse_Minor problem: this is #crux, not ##ranting14:22
predatorfreakpitillo: Exactly.14:22
aonpredatorfreak: what makes you think we actually need him for anything?14:22
predatorfreakaon: He contributes a lot to this community.14:23
cptnhowever I can't see why we should let him use #crux for this14:23
predatorfreakTicking him off and driving him out would be foolish.14:23
predatorfreakcptn: Just politely suggest to rant in ##ranting.14:23
aonpredatorfreak: so what? if we dep on his ports we can start maintaining them by ourselves14:23
pitillothe best way IMO is to think about this talks, and how are we acting and how this affects directly to the comunity14:23
predatorfreakaon: You're overworked by the looks of it.14:23
cptnpredatorfreak: but why is it that no one else ever tells him this?14:23
predatorfreakI'm jumping if you guys push him to that extent14:23
aonpredatorfreak: not really14:24
predatorfreakand jaeger is gone.14:24
aoni don't have that much work but it's a bit delayed at the moment14:24
tilmancool... i almost didn't say anything, yet there's tilman hilighting galore tonight14:24
predatorfreaktilman: Yeah sorry.14:24
aonsince i don't have comfortable access to this box for most of the time14:24
aonhence i can't test stuff14:24
predatorfreakcptn: He's sleeping right now14:24
predatorfreakand I've told him more than once that he should just relax14:25
predatorfreakand let it go.14:25
predatorfreakBut he's a hothead.14:25
cptnand he has a track record of being a hothead14:25
tilmanpredatorfreak: he's ticking _me_ off :D14:25
cptnthat's why things got that far in the first place14:25
predatorfreakYou guys just fan the flames, you don't extinguish the fire.14:25
Part`\/win 2114:25
Part`oops, sorry.14:25
predatorfreakIf you'd stop fanning the flames, the situation would improve.14:25
aonPart`: np14:25
RotwangPart`: dont!14:25
tilmanpredatorfreak: ffs, cptn is the nicest guy ever, unless you step on his toes for the 100. time :)14:25
tilmans/ffs// keeping things nice ;)14:25
Rotwangyou will burn in hellish flames14:25
predatorfreaktilman: Frankly I haven't been impressed with you guys as of late.14:26
aonpredatorfreak: not really, since then he'd think he's actually doing the right thing14:26
predatorfreakaon: Politely point out problems.14:26
predatorfreakNote POLITELY.14:26
jesse_It might have been a smart ass comment, but it was not hostile.14:26
predatorfreakIf you don't fan the flames, but point out problems and discuss them like civil people, it'd improve.14:26
pitilloaon, that's the point in acomunity, things can be talked and discussed, pointing good/bad things about thoughts14:26
aonno, i don't consider him important enough to be careful to not step on his toes14:27
predatorfreakHow hard is it to understand that if you guys act nicer, he'll act nicer?14:27
predatorfreakaon: Then, I'm sorry to say, you're an ignorant prick.14:27
pitilloaon, omg14:27
* sepen here14:27
aoni wouldn't say i'm ignorant14:27
predatorfreakaon: Right now, I would.14:28
pitilloyou must be carefull with all people, important or not... only by respect14:28
predatorfreakI'm sorry, but that's how I feel.14:28
cptnwell, 5+ persons are only having this discussion because of Romster14:28
pitillothat actittude doesn't show too much respect to others14:28
Rotwangim not sure you guys realize this, but this conversation wont lead to any valid points14:28
cptnwhat if we actually worked on CRUX?14:28
predatorfreakFrankly, you guys will drive away the community if you keep reacting like this to people.14:28
predatorfreakand you'll destroy what makes CRUX good.14:28
predatorfreakcptn: Good point, ignore him while he rants14:28
predatorfreakand actually work on CRUX14:28
pitillocptn, here I am xD14:28
predatorfreakProblem solved.14:28
aoni thought we're doing it for ourselves mostly14:29
cptnpredatorfreak: I'm just saying that aon's maybe right14:29
predatorfreakJust minimise your IRC client14:29
predatorfreakand do some other shit.14:29
predatorfreakSo that you don't fan the flames.14:29
predatorfreakIt's not hard.14:29
cptnif someone's using up lots of other's developers' energy, it might actually cost the community more to have it14:29
Rotwangits only irc for fuck sake give it up, all of you!14:29
predatorfreakcptn: You guys fan the flames which costs you more energy14:30
aonpredatorfreak: you still need to react when he addresses you directly14:30
predatorfreakIt's a recursive problem that you both fuel.14:30
aonlike files ranty bugs or mails or queries you14:30
aonor he'll bitch about being ignored14:30
predatorfreakStop feeding it from your end, he'll stop fuelling it from his end.14:30
Rotwangim off, irc logs are getting too big and eventually my hard disk will blow14:30
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aon=> others like you will complain about ignoring him14:30
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predatorfreakaon: I'M ASKING FOR YOU TOO14:30
aonasking for what?14:30
predatorfreakI'll applaud you if you just let him simmer.14:30
predatorfreakFuck, if I had money I'd pay you guys to do it.14:31
cptnand if we just leave #crux to him, newbies will think it's good to keep an SSL package with known security issues14:31
cptnbecause he wants to make a point about aon not "fixing" wine14:31
predatorfreakcptn: Again, politely say "Please rant in ##ranting" or something14:31
aonpredatorfreak: you also seem to think that I'm interested in what you think14:31
aonwhich is really not the case14:31
predatorfreakNo attacking "Go fucking rant in ##ranting".14:31
aonunless you have something new and technical to report14:31
predatorfreakJust be polite.14:31
predatorfreakYeah I do, you're an ass.14:32
predatorfreakQuite frankly.14:32
predatorfreakI'm done wasting my time.14:32
predatorfreakIt's obvious you guys don't care about cutting your fuel supply to the fire.14:32
cptnfunny how it's perfectly fine to call us asses and the like14:32
predatorfreakSo, I have better things to do.14:33
cptnand then you keep talking about politeness14:33
predatorfreakcptn: Go ahead and call me an ass.14:33
predatorfreakI don't care.14:33
cptnno, I don't think you are14:33
predatorfreakYou guys are acting like Grade-A asses, so I'm giving you your method.14:33
predatorfreakObviously it don't work so well now does it?14:33
aoneh, "work"...14:34
aonwhat do you expect us to do?14:34
aonstop all work and make romster the new pli?14:34
predatorfreakaon: Get more angry and react more defensively?14:34
predatorfreakDurr the NATURAL reaction.14:34
predatorfreakWhich is what I've been TELLING you is what's happening with You guys v Romster forever now?14:35
predatorfreakSeeing the connection?14:35
aonyou think we didn't know that before?14:35
predatorfreakThen why do you keep fanning the flames?14:35
cptnbecause we think we're right14:35
tilmanso starting the fire is okay, but responding to the flames isn't?14:36
predatorfreakcptn: The problem is I'm not the only one here who thinks you're wrong.14:36
aonwho else does?14:36
predatorfreaktilman: You don't respond to the flames by giving them more oxygen.14:36
predatorfreakaon: sepen, pitillo to some extent.14:36
tilmanpredatorfreak: it's impossible not to respond to the flamebait in #29014:36
predatorfreaktilman: Just say he's out of line and such <<14:37
tilmangotta run, improving my productivity14:37
predatorfreakYou guys are fighting the fire with more fire.14:37
predatorfreakWhat you should be doing is throwing buckets of water on it <<14:38
sepenand core should be the example14:38
aonyou really think he can take some criticism just by changing the wording?14:38
aonfrom what i've seen he can't take any of it14:38
predatorfreakBesides, FS#290 is a terrible example of core folks handling a flamebait.14:39
predatorfreakaon: If it's constructive and not attacking, yes.14:39
predatorfreakHe takes criticism all the time from me, I just politely explain it.14:39
cruxbot[contrib.git]: muttprint: fix prtverify warning14:40
aoni don't think that was such a bad example14:40
aonflamebait happens -> reply to flamebait -> fix bug14:40
predatorfreakaon: Responding to "snide remarks" with snide remarks is bad.14:40
predatorfreakFighting fire with fire.14:40
predatorfreakJust fix it and close it.14:40
predatorfreakYou walk away with the high ground.14:40
cptnand he'll do it again14:41
tilmanwell, obviously this tension thing is going on for a while14:41
aonand you really think that was "critical" and "immediate"?14:41
predatorfreakIf you stop feeding the fire he'll simmer down.14:41
tilmanand i don't think it's all our fault14:41
predatorfreakaon: No.14:41
predatorfreakFix the status, fix the bug14:41
predatorfreakDon't feed the flames.14:41
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predatorfreakIf I was in your position, I sure wouldn't.14:41
predatorfreakIt makes you look bad if you feed the flames.14:42
predatorfreaktilman: Also, I'm not saying it is.14:42
cptnsepen: contrib members should be an example too14:42
predatorfreakI'm saying you're contributing too much to the problem.14:42
sepencptn, yeah but following core team14:42
predatorfreakcptn: You guys are NOT an example right now.14:42
predatorfreakSo, that argument is null.14:42
predatorfreakUntil you guys have the moral high-ground, you shouldn't use remarks like that.14:42
aonso you think you have the moral high-ground now?14:43
predatorfreakaon: No.14:44
predatorfreakBut I definitely do NOT believe you guys do either.14:44
predatorfreakI'm apparently feeding the fire with my opinions here, but I don't think they're all that radical.14:45
jesse_Does this somehow make it acceptable for Romster to throw a world class hissy fit on a regular basis?14:45
predatorfreakjesse_: No.14:45
tilmanwoo, support14:45
predatorfreakBut it doesn't make it right for cptn/aon/tilman to feed the flames when he does.14:45
predatorfreakBoth sides are guilty of wrongdoing.14:45
cptnsepen: if anyone else would help to point out when Romster is wrong, I'd be more than happy to stay out14:45
jesse_They usually don't fan the flames.14:45
predatorfreakI would say they do.14:46
jesse_Besides, more often than not, Romster sees EVERYTHING as a personal insult.14:46
predatorfreakAs they're willing to fight with him.14:46
aonit's amazing what goes as a flame here nowadays14:46
predatorfreakIf they weren't so willing to fight with him, he wouldn't be so defensive.14:46
cptnaon: it's not like back in the days14:46
predatorfreakThus you'd reduce the hissy fits.14:46
predatorfreakI'm not asking for a miracle here.14:46
predatorfreakHow hard is it to understand basic logic? <<14:47
sepencptn, this is not a solution imho14:47
jesse_A couple words of criticism and you get someone going off the walls.14:47
aonpredatorfreak: it isn't, but it's not the outcome I (we?) want14:47
predatorfreakjesse_: Romster feels as though the core folks are all out to get him.14:47
predatorfreakaon: Because you guys want the ability to keep acting like pricks over trivial things.14:47
sepenI don't want to spend more time with this kind of silly discussions, just being polite all words sounds better14:48
aonbecause we want him to act like everyone else14:48
cptnsepen: so you're saying no one should tell him if he's wrong?14:48
predatorfreakjesse_: He feels that way BECAUSE they keep attacking him over this stuff.14:48
sepencptn, no14:48
predatorfreakcptn: No one said that.14:48
aonwe're not attacking him, he just feels like that14:48
RyoSsepen for president14:48
predatorfreakaon: I would say you are.14:48
RyoSguys, calm down14:48
cptnpredatorfreak: read again14:48
sepenyeah plz, clam14:48
RyoSwhat the fuck is wrong with you all.14:48
predatorfreakYour comments directed at him can be very, very aggressive.14:48
aonhe should stop taking everything as an attack14:48
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sepenaon, according to that14:49
predatorfreakaon: core + you have cornered him into feeling that he's under attack.14:49
cptnteK: too early, I fear14:49
jesse_teK: you're back too early.14:49
cptnjesse_: :-)14:49
sepenplease stop to see everything as an attack14:49
jesse_cptn: argh! like clockwork.14:49
teKrehabdoll: was i right regarding ipv6 + dhcp? qry / notice me, pls14:49
cptnjesse_: swiss people, you know... :-)14:49
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predatorfreakI'm only asking that you guys handle this stuff more maturely.14:49
jesse_cptn: I won't argue that motion.14:50
predatorfreakIt's not like I'm asking for you to forget all the stupid things he's done and baby him.14:50
* sepen to dinningrom14:50
RyoSsepen: enjoy it :)14:50
predatorfreaki just want you to be politer in handling things.14:50
aonso why it's up to us and he doesn't have to be polite?14:50
predatorfreakaon: If you guys can promise to try and be polite I'll talk to him14:51
predatorfreakCalm him down14:51
predatorfreakand assure him that you guys have agreed to back off14:51
aoni find it surprising that you find it so shocking that rudeness is answered with rudeness in free software14:51
aonlike that doesn't happen anywhere else14:51
predatorfreakThat should moderate the disaster.14:51
predatorfreakand both sides get what they want.14:51
cptnokay, let's try14:51
jesse_A guarantee that the core folks "behave" and let Romster carry on moaning about everything being against him? wtf of a solution is that?14:52
predatorfreakjesse_: <predatorfreak> Calm him down14:52
predatorfreak<predatorfreak> and assure him that you guys have agreed to back off14:52
cptnjesse_: no, he'll stop moaning of course14:52
cptnthat's his side of the bargain14:52
predatorfreakI'm going to act as intermediate here and try to broker a deal <<14:52
aonno way, since that won't result in the best outcome14:52
predatorfreakaon: That is the best out-come right now.14:53
aonplus i've thought of such good insults during this discussion that it would be a shame to let them all go14:53
jesse_Good luck is all I will say. You'll really need it.14:53
predatorfreakThe other outcome is you keep acting like a 10 year old14:53
predatorfreakand he stays pissed.14:53
predatorfreakand it escalates.14:53
aonand will probably leave :'(14:53
predatorfreakI'm asking for you to try it, be polite.14:53
aonwell i'm not going to try it14:53
cptnpredatorfreak: so let's talk about the escalation14:53
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cptnpredatorfreak: how would that look like?14:54
predatorfreakcptn: Let's not, I'll prime the Arch ISOs.14:54
predatorfreakI can see that even though you are willing to work with me.14:54
predatorfreakaon is clearly not.14:54
predatorfreakand we'll never get anywhere if he stubbornly wishes to keep feeding the fire.14:54
aonwork is a totally different matter14:54
aonhowever, this hasn't been work after the first four lines14:54
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mernilhi all! :-)14:55
cptnhi mernil14:55
aonhi mernil14:55
predatorfreakcptn: In a nut-shell.14:55
predatorfreakJust so you can get a sum-up.14:55
cptnpitillo, sepen: also, to make this perfectly clear: when I complain about Romster, this has nothing to do with contrib14:55
predatorfreakMe and Romster leave, all our ports go up for grabs or die off, some people might follow us out of disgust and possibly a fork.14:55
mernilwhat's up boys?14:55
predatorfreakmernil: You don't want to know14:56
aonmernil: flamewar14:56
cptnpredatorfreak: so you're happy, Romster's happy, and we don't have to go through the flaming anymore14:56
mernilpredatorfreak: with that answer i know ;-)14:56
aonpredatorfreak: go ahead14:56
predatorfreakcptn: I want to keep CRUX in one piece okay.14:56
aonit would be interesting to see you fork14:56
jesse_Your threats of leaving are certainly forced escalation by your part.14:56
predatorfreakI just want to guys to work with me and let me try to broker a deal where both sides degrade the flame war.14:57
thrice`omg, another arch14:57
aonthrice`: exactly14:57
aonthrice`: something for eugenia to write about ;)14:57
thrice`the horrorz14:57
cptnaon: lol14:57
thrice`arnuld ?14:57
predatorfreakI'm not asking for a miracle, I just want the drama to end.14:57
cptnaon: I've almost forgot about her14:57
predatorfreakYou guys just don't want to end the drama.14:57
Rotwangyou could discuss all of it in #crux-ot ;]14:57
mernilthrice`: that movie!14:57
Rotwangjust making a suggestion14:57
aonpredatorfreak: it'll end anyway14:57
mernilapocalypse now14:57
predatorfreakaon: and CRUX looses.14:58
thrice`arnuld the crux user O.o14:58
predatorfreakSo, enjoy.14:58
aonif you had used crux longer you'd know that these things come and go14:58
mernili dont use crux, but i have heard good things!14:58
predatorfreakaon: You'd be loosing two people who are actually trying to improve CRUX.14:58
aonmernil: yeah, crux is good, but the developers are asses (so we are told)14:58
jesse_Whole lot of noise over a few smart ass comments. Grow up ffs.14:58
cptnpredatorfreak: "improve" ?14:58
predatorfreakMe and him are both working on our prototyped pkgutils-ng, some other ideas are floating about.14:59
predatorfreakI've been working on Firefox 3/Xulrunner.14:59
predatorfreakI'd like to take over Thunderbird, but I need to contact sip.14:59
aonso we can just pull those from your fork if they seem good14:59
predatorfreakNot to mention the things Romster uses.14:59
thrice`take pidgin, too.  I dont' think sip uses either14:59
aonunless you make them closed-source14:59
mernilthe ion developer is an a-hole ive been told. I dont know if it's true tho.14:59
mernilion, not aon :-)15:00
aonhe really isn't, when you understand his point15:00
predatorfreakaon: The point is.15:00
predatorfreakWe both want to contribute to CRUX itself.15:00
jesse_Ion's coder is an idealist who is not afraid to voice his opinion.15:00
predatorfreakOur hangup is with the DEVELOPERS, not the DISTRIBUTION.15:00
mernilbut you shold be nice to each other!15:00
cptnjesse_: much luck CRUX' developers, right?15:00
aonpredatorfreak: that's how forks are made15:00
mernilThat's my creed!15:00
cptnerr, *like15:01
predatorfreakaon: The problem is, you guys aren't even WILLING to work with us15:01
predatorfreakFor improvements that benefit YOU.15:01
cptnpredatorfreak: well, what you call improvements might be bloat to others15:01
predatorfreakYou're encouraging us to fork simply because you don't like Romster.15:01
jesse_cptn: of course! :> You people create wars even in the most peaceful of places just for fun. ;)15:01
predatorfreakcptn: When it comes around to that time, we can discuss that.15:01
predatorfreakI hardly doubt that will be the case.15:01
cptnpredatorfreak: no, we're tired of the complaining and whining15:01
predatorfreakI've slimmed Firefox quite a bit.15:01
mernilpredatorfreak: are you trolling? ur attidude seem a little way off15:02
predatorfreakmernil: Go read the online logs.15:02
predatorfreakThis is a flamewar <<15:02
aonmernil: no, he isn't trolling, he has the moral high-ground15:02
mernilno! i dont read logs :-)15:02
predatorfreakFuck it.15:02
aonso actually it's us with the @'s who are trolling15:02
predatorfreakYou guys don't care.15:02
aonthat's what we need them for, anyway15:02
predatorfreakYou have the authority.15:02
cptnpredatorfreak: maybe you're just seeing one side15:02
predatorfreakSo you don't care about what we do.15:02
predatorfreakcptn: Yes.15:03
cptnpredatorfreak: no15:03
predatorfreakEverything I suggest, you throw down15:03
predatorfreakEverything you suggest is "do what we're doing"15:03
predatorfreakWhich has been a colossal failure in handling this shit.15:04
mernilsay something good and maybe it will be considered!15:04
predatorfreakI'm willing to compromise, but you guys don't compromise.15:04
cptnpredatorfreak: like in the sqlite case15:04
cptngreat willingness to compromise there15:04
predatorfreakcptn: That's my opinionated shit.15:04
predatorfreakI maintain Firefox, I get final say on it.15:04
predatorfreakYou maintain CRUX, you get final say on it.15:04
mernilbut dont have to high expectations .. y0ur on my "maybe not" list15:04
predatorfreakThe problem with that was, no one gave a compromise.15:05
cptnI suggested to fix the offender15:05
predatorfreakIt was either hack xulrunner or hack sqlite.15:05
mernili have athority here15:05
predatorfreakcptn: That's not a compromise.15:05
cptnthere's no compromise here15:05
cptnexcept for fixing both, maybe15:05
predatorfreakcptn: That's the point.15:05
predatorfreaksqlite isn't an analogy to Romster.15:05
cptnno, it isn't indeed15:06
mernildamn.. i had a valid linux question really .. cant remember what it was :-|15:06
predatorfreakI'm trying to get you guys to agree to cool down a bit and in turn, I'll try to get Romster to cool down.15:06
predatorfreakIf he doesn't want to cool down.15:06
thrice`16:05 < predatorfreak> sqlite isn't an analogy to Romster.15:06
predatorfreakIt can revert to what's happening now.15:06
predatorfreakI think that's a good compromise.15:06
mernilyeah.. when you start X .. it always freezes for 1-2 secs. Is there a remedy for that?15:06
predatorfreakmernil: Video driver?15:07
cptnpredatorfreak: I believe I've never picked on him for no reason15:07
cptnpredatorfreak: so I'm willing to give it a try15:07
mernilpredatorfreak: hm.. i dont know. Sorry15:07
predatorfreakcptn: I believe your conduct has perhaps been a bit too mocking, but we're both opinionated on that.15:07
mernilbut it's an ati. I have a new computer and havent recompiled the kernel15:08
predatorfreakMy real problem is with aon, who doesn't seem to be willing to compromise.15:08
predatorfreakmernil: Are you using the ati/radeon/radeon-hd driver or the vesa driver?15:08
mernilaon seems to be a nice dude!15:08
mernilpredatorfreak: the former, im pretty sure15:08
predatorfreakmernil: He is, when he's not being stubborn.15:08
predatorfreakWell, I'd suspect card initialisation then.15:09
cptnaon probably got some more bullshit from Romster lately15:09
predatorfreakBut I can't guarantee that.15:09
predatorfreakcptn: Even if I get bullshit I'm willing to lay that aside.15:09
cptnpredatorfreak: most are, for some time15:09
mernilpredatorfreak: i have had that problem for ages. It's no big deal15:09
cptnbut you clearly lay it aside now do you?15:09
predatorfreakcptn: I'm frustrated okay.15:10
aon22:32 < predatorfreak> I'm done wasting my time.15:10
predatorfreakYou guys are being very big thorns in his side and it's causing undue friction in the community.15:10
predatorfreakI really just want to try and sort it out15:10
mernilsexual frustration .. that can be a bummer!15:10
mernilor frustration whatever sort!15:11
aonmernil: totally :)15:11
predatorfreakI'm not asking for you guys to stop pointing out mistakes, that's wrong.15:11
predatorfreakI just want to try and resolve the friction so that we can hopefully end this stuff15:11
Rotwangmernil: sexual frustration is worst of all frustrations :x15:11
aonalthough as nerds we hardly can be sexually frustrated, right?15:12
mernilRotwang: i dont have any sex, and that's a frustration ;-)15:12
cptnaon: especially in the army, right? ;-)15:12
aonmernil: not even with yourself?15:12
predatorfreakSigh, I need some hot tea.15:12
aoncptn: haha, right :)15:12
Rotwangmernil: me too15:12
cptnwhere all women suddenly become twice as attractive15:12
Rotwangaon: sex with yourself is crap15:13
mernilim a good looking guy, not like you.. so i should be having sex! Rotwang <--------- ;-)15:13
Rotwangi mean its fucking lying to yourself15:13
mernilnot with Rotwang but with young girls15:13
Rotwangmernil: fuck you! Im sexy15:13
aoncptn: yeah, i noticed that for the first time after the two weeks i spent in the forest now15:13
Rotwangi respect women i respect them so much that i stay away from them ;]15:14
aonnot that i really care for that stuff, though :)15:14
mernilRotwang: you dont have any respect. That's why you dont getting any!15:15
Rotwangi dont have enough money thats why!15:15
predatorfreakcptn: I'm sorry about flaming, this shit is just frustrating.15:15
cptnpredatorfreak: you know, it's for both sides15:15
mernilno sex, and ur poor? :-)15:15
predatorfreakcptn: Seeing you guys at each others throats day after day is really stupid.15:16
predatorfreakand I just want to try and calm the fire.15:16
mernilno, im in the same position .. :-/15:16
Rotwangmernil: i have my computah, thats almost as good as a girlfriend15:16
aonsex isn't that expensive anyway15:16
mernilno sex, poor, and rather fat to add to my CV :-)15:16
Rotwangaon: teach me!15:16
predatorfreakcptn: I need to control myself better and not resort to flaming <<15:17
mernilRotwang: good music in your mind?15:17
predatorfreakRotwang: Dyslexia?15:17
aonRotwang: i guess it's about being in the right place at the right time15:17
aonor something15:17
Rotwangno, lack of english language knowlege15:17
Rotwangaon: uh, that doesnt help much15:18
mernili like most music. Specially southern rock, but classical and ambience when im codeing.15:18
aonRotwang: i know15:18
aonRotwang: that's why i don't have much of it either15:18
Rotwangmernil: jungle drumm'nbass15:18
Rotwangits settled then!15:18
Rotwangwe are frustrated!15:18
Rotwangthats the cause of all this shit15:18
mernilRotwang: okay, not my piece of cake. But it could'v been worse :-)15:18
predatorfreakRotwang: Basically I shouldn't have been flaming.15:19
predatorfreakRotwang: Incase you haven't encountered resort before.15:19
Rotwangi suggest turn off your precious peecees and go out ;]15:19
mernilsuppose ur black? And me who has been called a rasist and a nazi :-O15:19
predatorfreakIn that content it means essentially that15:19
predatorfreak-n +x15:19
Rotwangmernil: ur black?15:19
mernilnow i have to go and wash my hands :-)15:20
mernilno, im all white15:20
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Rotwangi have nothing against black people15:20
mernili dont have any problems with blacks fyi!15:20
mernilonly with certain muslims15:21
Rotwangpredatorfreak: finish your sentence15:21
predatorfreakRotwang: ?15:21
mernilbut this ain a political channel15:21
predatorfreakI did.15:21
Rotwangpredatorfreak: you finished?15:21
Rotwangok ;]15:21
predatorfreaknot resorting to flaming is like saying "I shouldn't have been flaming".15:21
Rotwangok i get it ;]15:22
predatorfreakRotwang: Good, good.15:22
mernilpredatorfreak: what? ur saying ur against black people?15:22
predatorfreakmernil: No.15:22
Rotwangyou racist bastard!15:22
teKvim rocks15:22
predatorfreakI could care less.15:22
aonmernil: i don't want to start a discussion about this either, but i hear ya (especially since you live in .se...)15:22
cptnteK: :-)15:22
teKmore than emacs15:22
predatorfreakteK: Agreed!15:22
teKno predatorfreak! you gotta flame me in favour of emacs15:22
mernilaon: sorry my friend!15:22
predatorfreakThere's really not going to be much contesting here :D15:22
teKyou did not get the rules15:23
predatorfreakteK: I like vim.15:23
teKthen I prefer emacs!15:23
predatorfreakIt's a nice replacement for CRUX15:23
aonyou can't prefer emacs on #crux15:23
predatorfreakBut it's editor sucks15:23
Rotwangi like vim but in vi compatibility mode15:23
Rotwangor how ots called15:23
aonemacs has vi so it sucks too?15:23
mernilim relaying, im from austin, texas!15:23
aonah, okay15:23
mernilnot .se15:23
predatorfreakaon: It's not vim :D15:23
aonwell, the situation might be a bit less worse there :)15:24
Rotwangi like texas15:24
predatorfreakRotwang: o.O15:24
Rotwangespecially texas rangers15:24
predatorfreakI don't.15:24
aoni wonder if i could even get a u.s. visa15:24
mernilchuck norris rocks! :-)15:24
Rotwangyeah ;]15:24
Rotwangand his black partner15:24
mernilno, that's the bad part of the cast!15:24
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Rotwangroundhouse kicks ftw!15:24
jesse_aon: depends on the visa type.15:24
aonyeah, but like even a short-term one :)15:25
predatorfreakRotwang: That show is cheesier than cheese.15:25
Rotwangtexas rangers?15:25
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aonmy cousin is going to the usa for a year, had to go to the embassy for  some interview15:25
Rotwangi love texas rangers, i watched them regulary15:25
teKI should have come up with the Editor-comment 40 minutes earlier15:25
predatorfreakIt's sooo campy.15:25
predatorfreakIt's set in Texas but everyone knows martial arts15:26
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predatorfreakI mean seriously.15:26
predatorfreakGo to Texas :D15:26
predatorfreakEveryone uses a gun, not their foot15:26
aoneveryone in texas doesn't know martial arts? :O15:26
predatorfreakaon: You poor sole15:26
predatorfreakCan't type today15:27
Rotwangtexas u s and a, ill go there some day ;]15:27
aonwas going to comment on that but wasn't sure if it was intentional15:27
Rotwangpoland is too crapy for young people15:28
aonso they say15:28
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* drijen lives in texas15:43
aondo you know martial arts?15:43
drijen15 years of it15:44
Rotwangdo you have a gun?15:44
drijenof course15:44
Rotwangomfg! ninja rambo15:44
Rotwangeven chuck norris isnt match for you im affraid15:44
drijeni've met the man15:44
drijenand his stunt double15:44
drijenin fact, i live 5 miles from the dump where they filmed most of walker texas ranger15:45
drijentrust me, its a dump15:45
drijenthey filmed dallas there too15:45
drijenits much much smaller than it looks on tv15:45
drijenmebbe 5 - 10 acres15:45
aon:D dallas15:45
drijenand a house smaller than mine15:46
drijenits a dump15:46
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drijenrehabdoll, hi15:58
teKrehabdoll: thanks compiled 4.x again myself to recheck the issue *g*16:00
rehabdollg'day drijen16:00
drijenrehabdoll, not really :(16:01
rehabdollyeah, kind of sucks.. strange such a huge bug could slip through16:01
rehabdolldrijen: good evening?16:01
drijenno, just annoyed atm, stuff is not compiling16:01
* drijen roars in frustration16:04
tilmanwhat issue? something i should know about?16:08
drijentaglib-sharp won't build16:10
drijenpukes out on some damned XML bs16:10
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cruxbot[contrib.git]: libcap: updated to 2.1016:53
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aonnothing really17:04
tanjuuso whats the deal with crux?17:11
rehabdollhow do you answer a question like that?17:12
tanjuuhow dont you?17:12
rehabdollits pretty vague17:12
tanjuuwhat is crux and why should i consider using it?17:13
tanjuuive been looking on the site and i cant find anything definite17:13
aonread the website17:13
rehabdollits lfs with ports17:13
thrice`read the about page17:18
thrice`how much more do you want? :)17:18
tanjuuthats pretty much it17:19
tanjuuhow does it handle dependencies since its source-based17:19
thrice`ports have a "depends on" line that can be parsed by a wrapper called "prt-get"17:20
Rotwangtanjuu: use or dont, your decision17:21
Rotwangread the handbook and rest docs available on the web page17:22
Rotwangrest of the*17:22
Rotwangrehabdoll: lfs is more like standalone distro if you know what i mean ;]17:23
Rotwangso i would say crux is bare simple source-based linux distribution17:24
tanjuusometing like sourcmage or gentoo then?17:24
thrice`maybe.  sourcemage is pretty dumb, and gentoo has USE flags17:25
Rotwangnot gentoo17:25
Rotwanggentoo has nothing to do with crux :p17:25
thrice`our build scripts are also alot easier17:25
Rotwangexcept theyre both source based17:25
tanjuucrux is lookin pretty sweet17:26
* Rotwang doesnt liek gentoo17:26
tanjuui dont either17:28
tanjuui coulndt get the network instlal to work so i gave upt17:28
thrice`crux is alot simpler than gentoo, whether you like or disslike that17:28
tanjuuim somewhat of a noob, but totally, could i use crux while learning on the fly?17:30
aonwhy not17:30
Rotwangif youre persistent enough17:30
Rotwangbut dont come here with any problem you got ;]17:30
tanjuuyay, handbook17:31
Rotwangi meant, not all of them17:33
tanjuui know17:35
tanjuuand you have nice documentation17:35
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cruxbot[opt.git]: netpbm: updated to 10.35.4417:40
cruxbot[opt.git]: wine: updated to 1.0-rc317:40
Rotwangi hope crux wont ever get n00bflood like arch :\17:42
Rotwangbut there is hope, broken ports17:42
aonwe certainly have the people and means to stop a noobflood17:43
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ryuoRomster: hey.19:08
ryuooh. hes not here19:08
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mernilhi all!19:34
thrice`hi mernil19:34
mernilwhat's up here boys?19:35
mernili just saw alien for the 10th time i think19:35
mernilit's still good i think19:35
mernilno:1 is the best, no.2 sucks .. with the marines19:36
mernilbut i also like the one .. cant remember the name .. but where ripley felt she was the mother of an alien. It was kind of cute.19:37
* mernil likes that kind of perverse relations :-) 19:38
mernilbut it was cute also!19:38
mernilthrice`: how it hanging dude?19:39
mernilim not gay, that's how they say19:40
thrice`good :)  watching hockey19:40
mernilahh! :-) My favorite sport!19:40
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aon"ice wrestling" as it's commonly called19:54
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nipuLany web mail systems in ports?23:19
nipuLsquirrel mail got dropped23:19
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nipuLugh, if i hear the word "epic" one more time i'm going to snap23:40
predatorfreaknipuL: epic snappage!23:42
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nipuLfsck you23:59

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