IRC Logs for #crux Sunday, 2008-06-22

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spaceninjahow do I know if I'm missing out on important modules when I compile programs from the ports tree?02:27
spaceninjawhen I'm compiling*02:27
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mwansaapplication wont compile ?03:12
spaceninjayes it will03:15
aonyour kernel hardly has any effect on the applications03:15
spaceninjabut what if I need to compile it with some extra support,03:15
aonif your hardware is detected and works, it's all there03:15
spaceninjanot the kernel03:15
mwansayour question is vague03:16
aonthen you edit the pkgfile03:16
spaceninjalike if I had to compile apache with mysql support03:16
spaceninjabut how do I know which arguments I can pass?03:17
aonyou find out03:17
spaceninjawhere? :)03:17
aonpkgmk -kw, ctrl+c, cd work/src/blahblah-1.0, ./configure --help|less03:18
spaceninjabut are the ports configured so the will pass "standard" and needed arguments?03:21
aonyes they are03:23
spaceninjaok, should I compile the package with pkgmk and then install it with pkgadd? I'm confused :)03:25
aonman pkgmk03:26
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spaceninjahow do I clean the port tree from old version downloads?03:47
aonman find03:48
aonalso, it's good to set PKGMK_SOURCE_DIR and PKGMK_PACKAGE_DIR in pkgmk.conf03:48
aonso that they all go to a single place03:49
spaceninjawhere have you put them?03:49
aon/usr/ports/distfiles and /usr/ports/packages03:49
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predatorfreakaon: Some options do seriously affect userspace applications, for example inotify.04:13
aonyeah, but i haven't seen a case where they prevent compilation04:15
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spaceninjais lighthttpd the most KISS web server?04:17
predatorfreakaon: Well, potentially something depending on inotify will horribly bork when running04:17
predatorfreakBut kernel headers should have all the things for it, so it should build, yes.04:18
predatorfreakspaceninja: No ;)04:18
spaceninjawhich one should I go with?04:18
cptnspaceninja: what features do you need?04:18
predatorfreakThe most basic web server would have absolutely no CGI, PHP, etc support04:18
spaceninjayeah but I want php and mysql04:18
cptnwebfs is probably the simplest way to serve files via http04:18
predatorfreaklighttpd is a good, small and efficient httpd though04:19
predatorfreakcptn: Nah, there's web-servers done in under 1K lines of code.04:19
aonpredatorfreak: indeed04:19
predatorfreakOf course, they're useless.04:19
predatorfreakBut they exist :D04:19
cptnI bet :-)04:19
cptnwebfs is also useless if you have spaceninja's requirements :-)04:20
predatorfreakcptn: Yes, I personally use lighttpd on my server04:21
predatorfreakI actually find it less of a hassle than apache.04:21
aoni use apache, and run cgi scripts written in shell :)04:21
aon(well, yeah, some php too)04:21
predatorfreakaon: Madman :D04:21
predatorfreaktilman: BTW, you reversed a ton of my clean-ups to firefox with the 3.0 push.04:24
predatorfreakand reintroduced a lot of junk files.04:24
predatorfreakand xulrunner lost the needed post-install script04:26
predatorfreak(and also uses the versioned directories, which differs from how firefox is packaged)04:27
predatorfreakProbably would have been advisable to just steal my firefox3 repo stuff and change to non-system-sqlite04:28
predatorfreakI wouldn't have complained :)04:29
predatorfreakIf you don't mind versioned directories you can just cut all of my shit to deal with them and use the core build stuff, which simplifies the whole process and avoids junk files.04:32
tilmanyeah, i've noticed that *.a crept in again eg04:33
predatorfreaktilman: system_wrappers, too.04:34
predatorfreaktilman: Using make install with firefox also removes the need for your patch.04:35
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tilmani'll give that a try later04:39
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predatorfreaktilman: I really wish Mozilla would stop using versioned directories, but sadly they seem to like them04:41
spaceninjaepiphany ftw04:42
predatorfreakspaceninja: Epiphany depends on xulrunner, as-of now :)04:42
spaceninjawhat's that?04:42
predatorfreakAt least until they fully switch to webkit.04:42
spaceninjaoh ok04:43
predatorfreakThe mozilla runtime shit.04:43
spaceninjais that the same as what  firefox is using04:43
predatorfreakYes, same engine04:43
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spaceninjathe /var/ftp folder is what anonymous gets access to?04:48
spaceninjacan access04:50
luxhcould be /home/ftp04:54
spaceninjabut if I create a user, that will always be jailed inside /home/ftp/, do I have to give it a shell when creating that user?04:58
spaceninjaif I don't give it a shell, it can't use ssh?04:59
treachftp isn't necessarily jailed to /home/ftp05:01
treachthat's up to you. anonymous access is usually jailed though05:01
RedShiftspaceninja: I don't know what you're attempting to achieve, but take a look at scponly05:07
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spaceninjaThis is what I want to do. I want to create 2 ftp users on my server. The first user is going to get jailed inside his empty home folder with read and write permissions. And the other user is also going be jailed inside his home folder, but be able to access  the first users home folder and another folder that's on another computer.05:28
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bdfyHi, ALL! I had any problems with building /usr/ports/opt/subversion05:36
cptndo you have an error log?05:37
bdfy/bin/sed: can't read /usr/lib/ No such file or directory05:39
bdfyI can't find "", library in any .footprint05:39
bdfyThere is no that library05:40
bdfyBut there was core port05:40
cptnbdfy:  grep db-4.4 /usr/lib/pkgconfig/*05:41
cptnany hits there?05:41
cptne.g. in an apr file?05:41
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cptnokay, there's your problem them05:44
cptnyou probably updated db after installing apr05:44
cptnyou should have /usr/lib/ on your system05:44
cptnso apr just points to an older version05:44
bdfyI am doing "sudo ln -s /usr/lib/ /usr/lib/"05:46
cptnyou should rebuild apr05:46
cptnand then update subversion :-)05:46
cptnbut the symlink might work too05:46
bdfyMay be..05:48
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bdfypkgadd -u /usr/pkgdir/apr#1.2.12-1.pkg.tar.gz05:52
* tilman donates a bunch of In-Reply-To headers to Boovarahan05:52
bdfyls: cannot access /usr/lib/ No such file or directory05:52
bdfyI am doing symlink05:52
cptnbdfy: did you rebuild it?05:53
bdfyI am rebuilding it05:53
cruxbot[contrib.git]: zend_optimizer: removed from repository05:53
tilmanmozilla looses...05:55
bdfyI am typing "sudo du -sh /usr" and I nave 7,2G, it si normally for CRUX?05:55
treachlooses what? ;)05:55
tilman--with-system-{zlib,png,jpeg,foo} BUT also --enable-system-{hunspell,sqlite,cairo}05:55
treachah, right. the amusements of building anything mozilla. :(05:56
treachlose, lose. :(05:56
cptnbdfy: mine is 5.805:57
tilmanerm, yes05:58
cptnbdfy: 896MB kernel source, 2620MB ports sources/packages05:58
cptnbdfy: why'05:59
bdfycptn: Ok. Thanks!06:04
bdfycptn: But I can't build subversion again :-\06:08
cptnsame error?06:08
cptnbdfy: do you use multiple parallel build jobs?06:09
cptn-j2 or more?06:09
bdfyOops.. I am stypid.. sorry06:09
cptnwell, that should work, but someone else had a similar problem a while ago06:10
tilmanit looks like you only pasted the boring messages though06:11
tilmanthose libtool warnings should be harmless :)06:11
cptnyes :-)06:11
tilmantilman@brimstone [~] > tail -n 1 /usr/lib/libsupc++.la06:11
tilmantilman@brimstone [~] >06:11
tilmang++ tells me06:12
tilmang++ tells me libtool: link: warning: `/usr/lib/' seems to be moved06:12
tilmanwhen building lftp06:12
tilmanwhich is a bit weird06:12
tilmanmaybe it's just general gcc 4.3 suckage06:12
treachlol, lftp has more warnings than stuff that builds without.. :>06:12
tilmanwithout what?06:13
tilmanso you're saying it has more than 0 warnings06:13
tilmanawesome ;)06:13
tilmanokay, i don't get it06:13
treachI'm saying the amount of code in lftp that builds with warnings is massively outnumbering the parts of it that builds without warnings.06:14
tilmanoh, ok06:14
treachat least it feels that way when you look at the output. :>06:15
bdfycptn: -j2 or more? .. Yes.. -j406:15
cptnbdfy: if it still fails, try without and see whether that helps06:15
cptnas mentioned, there was one user who had a svn build error and that helped06:16
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bdfy - I can't build subversion.. heh06:18
tilmanthat's the same log you already linked -- it's useless :p06:19
tilmani see only warnings in the log06:19
tilmanyou didn't paste the _errors_ :)06:19
bdfyYeah. #export MAKEFLAGS="-j4" in /etc/pkgmk.conf Help this06:23
cptnyou have apache installed, right?06:24
spaceninja# ./lighttpd start06:24
spaceninja2008-06-22 13:23:06: (log.c.62) opening errorlog '/logs/error_log' failed: Permission denied06:24
spaceninja2008-06-22 13:23:06: (server.c.899) Opening errorlog failed. Going down.06:24
spaceninjaI think it needs a patch, /logs/error_log doesn't even exist in crux06:25
cptnthat's configurable06:25
cptnspaceninja: see lighttpd.conf06:26
spaceninjawhere should the error log be then?06:26
cptndefault is to chroot06:26
cptnserver.chroot = "/var/www"06:27
cptnserver.document-root = "/htdocs"06:27
cptnserver.errorlog = "/logs/error_log"06:27
cptnthat's the default configuration06:27
cptnfor opt/lighttpd06:27
cptnso /var/www/logs06:27
spaceninjashouldn't it be in /var/www/htdocs/logs?06:29
spaceninjamaybe I need to touch that file06:29
cptnmaybe you need to mkdir that directory06:29
cptnin any case, you should probably read about lighttpd.conf06:30
bdfycptn: you have apache installed, right? Yes, apr is updatet, that is OK06:32
spaceninjamaybe I should change the group of /var/www to www group?06:32
cptnbdfy: well I have it installed, but don't really use it06:33
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spaceninjait's working, did this, chown -R lighttpd /var/www06:40
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bdfyI had some error with prt-get
bdfybut pkgmk is working correctly06:58
cruxbot[opt.git]: xulrunner: use the system's cairo library.07:00
cptnbdfy: strange, since the error "=======> ERROR: Directory '/usr/work' not writable." is from pkgmk07:00
cptnso prt-get calls pkgmk in the wrong directory it seems07:00
cptnwhat does your pkgmk.conf look like?07:01
bdfycptn: -there is it07:04
bdfyPKGMK_WORK_DIR="/usr/work/$name" - is it wrong?07:05
spaceninjabdfy: you seem to have some extra rows07:05
spaceninjaMine isn't touch07:05
cptnwell, it's uncommon07:05
cptnbut if it works with pkgmk, it should work with prt-get07:05
bdfycptn: I thing too..07:06
cptnbut using $name in pkgmk.conf is asking for trouble07:06
cptnwhile it currently is the case, there's no guarantee pkgmk will always source Pkgfile before pkgmk.conf07:07
bdfyOk. Thanks.07:07
bdfyusing $name in pkgmk.conf is wrong07:07
bdfyI think ..07:07
spaceninjait feels that it will take me several months to learn the ins and outs of crux07:07
* spaceninja wants a "administration" guide07:08
cptnbdfy: what does you prt-get.conf look like?07:08
cptndo you build with fakeroot?07:08
cptnsince changing PKGMK_WORK_DIR works for me07:09
Rotwangconfigure: error: Missing a vital header file for id3lib07:15
Rotwangwtf does that mean?07:15
Rotwangdoes it*07:15
cptnany hints in config.log?07:15
Rotwangit seems iomanip.h is missing :x07:17
cptnah, you're on x86_64, right?07:19
cptnthat # pgt find -f iomanip.h07:19
cptnFound in /usr/ports/core/gcc: /usr/include/c++/4.2.4/backward/iomanip.h07:19
cptnmaybe it's gone with gcc 4.3?07:19
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cptnit is :-)07:19
tilmanspaceninja: not really - most crux ports follow upstream closely07:21
tilman-> generic documentatin about package $foo will apply in crux, too07:21
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mwansa <<07:22
cptnRotwang: that header was removed in gcc 4.307:22
Rotwangxorg crashed :x07:23
cptnRotwang: run s|iomanip.h|iomanip|07:23
Rotwangon all files?07:23
cptnwell, in id3lib07:24
cptnor whatever package fails07:24
cptnmaybe you can create a patch, and submit it upstream07:24
RotwangI found some patches07:26
mwansaohk so xulrunner breaks epiphany :[07:45
spaceninjadoes the php package have configured with fast cgi?07:45
mwansachecking whether we have a gtk 2 gecko build... configure: error: This program needs a gtk 2 gecko build07:45
mwansa=======> ERROR: Building '/usr/ports/packages/epiphany#2.22.0-2.pkg.tar.gz' failed.07:45
spaceninjaah is the php package configured with fast cgi?07:45
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spaceninjaapparently not07:48
cruxbot[opt.git]: xaw3d: don't depend on xorg-libxp.07:51
spaceninjaif I install php php-fcgi php-mysql, will they be working together, or do I have to make  some special ./configure entries?07:51
tilmaniirc they will work together07:55
spaceninjafcgi seems to be disabled in php's Pkgfile07:55
spaceninjawill installing php-fcgi enable it?07:55
spaceninjaI can't type and think today, I'm taking a break07:55
mike_kspaceninja: installing opt/php-fcgi will add just php-cgi binary and rc script. It will utilize all extensions installed with opt/php08:16
spaceninjamike_k: so I need to enable fcgi in php for it to really work?08:18
mike_kspaceninja: no08:18
spaceninjabut that doesn't make any sense08:19
mike_kjust "prt-get depinst php php-mysql php-fcgi"08:19
mike_klook inside actual Pkgfiles to see what each package provide08:20
spaceninjathis is in php's Pkgfile08:21
mike_kthat is why separate php-fcgi exists08:21
mike_kit just provides fcgi-enabled binary08:22
mike_kextensions are shared between php/mod_php/php-fcgi08:22
mike_kAlso, be aware that default /etc/php/php.ini.* files installed with php have wrong extension_dir. Change it to  "/usr/lib/php/extensions"08:24
spaceninjabut I'm already installing it08:24
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mike_kjust adjust it later08:25
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mike_kspaceninja: this is about php ports layout
mike_k!seen jue08:29
tilmanhe's on vacation08:30
tilmanmike_k: check the mailing list, he said for how long he'd be gone08:30
mike_ktilman: ah, yes08:30
mike_kI am constantly forgetting to remind him about wrong "extension_dir" in php.ini-*08:31
tilmanis it a severe bug?08:32
mike_kthe bottom of
mike_kI guess, he was about to fix it08:33
tilmani'm wondering whether it is severe enough for me to apply the patch now :)08:35
mike_kseems noone is using php, since noone complained08:36
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bdfy I can't build blender from core port08:41
cptnmmmh, I don't think blender made it into core yet :-)08:41
tilmandid you install freealut?08:41
bdfy$ pkginfo -i | grep freealut08:44
bdfyfreealut 1.1.0-108:44
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thrice`speaking of mozilla, while searching for a decent gtk music app, I found songbird, which is built on the gecko engine.  How scary is that? o.O08:47
nipuLyeah, they should be using webkit...idiots... ;]08:48
tilmanthrice`: did you try abraca (the xmms2 client)? :D08:51
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thrice`tilman: actually,  yes.  I don't quite understand xmms2, to be honest09:27
thrice`wait, I tried dulite and gxmms09:28
thrice`tilman: I was trying to add all of my music to the playlist, which was giving me trouble09:29
* Rotwang hands beer to cptn09:29
RotwangI had once crux botup logo but it was crappy :x09:30
tilmanrugek: please update contrib/xmms2 :D09:30
cptnRotwang: thanks for the virtual beer :-)09:31
tilmanthrice`: what trouble? 'xmms2 radd my_music' should do the trick09:31
thrice`I think I ended up with mlib add id+  or something o.O09:31
thrice`lemme re-compile again; I since removed for mpd + sonata09:32
tilmanwell, i'd suggest to wait until contrib/xmms2 is updated09:32
tilmanDrKosmos had one nasty issue that will probably make it segfault all the time09:32
thrice`I've bumped to DrLecter09:33
tilmanoh, okay09:33
tilmanthrice`: mlib add will add stuff to the media library, but not to any playlist09:33
thrice`do you use cli, I assume ?09:34
thrice`(to play)09:34
Rotwangwooah, this one is moving :D09:36
thrice`tilman: the other I couldn't figure out was how to sort music.  is this stuff not done on client side ?09:41
tilmanie, 'xmms2 sort ATTRIBUTE'09:44
tilmanalso see 'xmms2 help sort'09:44
bdfy - I  am trying to build Blender with Archlinux ports, but I can't :-\09:47
Rotwangbdfy: what  I  am trying to build Blender with Archlinux ports mean?09:47
Rotwangyou use archs pkgbuild?09:48
bdfyBecouse I can't to build this with contrib port.. :-\09:49
Rotwangbdfy: tell us why you cant build it with contrib port then09:49
tilmanyou could try to remove the line saying WITH_BF_OPENAL=yes09:49
bdfyThanks! I will try09:50
thrice`tilman: the other gripe with xmms2 I had was that I can't have it shuffle without shuffling the playlist around; ie, keep it alphabetical, but play at random09:51
thrice`it seems I'd have to xmms2 clear; xmms2 mlib loadall; xmms2 shuffle; blah blah09:52
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tilmanhang on09:52
tilmanthrice`: i'm not sure, but this might be what you're looking for:
thrice`hm, looks more promising.  just to have the playlist remain in tact when I push "next," but have it jump to something random09:56
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tilmanthrice`: seems like pshuffle won't do that either.10:03
thrice`tilman: right.  I don't get it; that seems to be an exremely common feature of a music app10:07
tilmanpshuffle means you'll play a given set of songs10:08
tilmanit should give you the same feature in a slightly different way10:09
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thrice`tilman: and how is pshuffle applied to an entire playlist?10:12
thrice`bah; apparently I don't understand collections enough o.O10:14
tilmanhang on, i need to try this, too :D10:15
thrice`the radd was perfect, too :)10:19
Rotwangif i send mail from unregistered account to ml, then this mail will never get to the ml?10:22
Rotwangnever mind ;]10:24
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rehabdolldovecot needs to be bumped 1.0.13 in ports, 1.0.15 is out10:33
tilmandoesn't seem to be critical though(?)10:34
rehabdollnah, just a general observation .>10:37
tilmani don't want to mess with jue's ports without a good reason :p10:37
Rotwangimagemagic link at least could be updated10:38
tilmanRotwang: please shoot sip an email for that10:41
Rotwangi think it wont work :{10:42
Rotwangive sent him about month ago mail about other port10:42
Rotwangno reaction10:43
Rotwangpidgin too is out of date10:43
tilmanhrm :|10:44
tilmanRotwang: switch off the mailing list digest crap please10:48
tilman(->, CRUX -> login with your email address and pass -> options)10:49
Rotwangi hadnt change topic for consistency :p10:50
Rotwangok ill disable diget crap10:51
tilmanthen you didn't hit 'reply'?10:51
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Rotwan1k, fixed11:04
Rotwan1it wont happen again11:04
tilmanthanks :D11:05
Rotwan1np ;]11:07
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cruxbot[opt.git]: quilt: removed.11:39
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spaceninjaI want to compile a kernel with no modules at all. Last time I compiled a kernel, I didn't load a module, but did the computer automatically do that? If not, can't I just unmark all the modules in the kernel?11:57
mike_kin a kernel/.config11:59
mike_kit is somewhere at the top of menuconfig11:59
spaceninjaoh ok thanks11:59
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cruxbot[contrib.git]: awesome: 2.3 -> 2.3.112:58
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cruxbot[opt.git]: avahi: added missing p5-xml-parser dependency.13:15
tilmanRotwang: can you file bugs about imagemagick and pidgin? (and assign them to sip)13:19
tilmanthanks :)13:20
thrice`gimp needs a bump too (sip)13:20
Rotwangtilman: one ticket for all?13:22
Rotwangor ticked per port?13:22
treachheh, "ticket". ;)13:22
tilmanRotwang: one per port i think13:22
treachone ticked sip / port. :D13:22
tilmanbugs have the advantage that you can easily ping the assignee13:25
Rotwangsip bombarded ;]13:32
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chi11yhow cool is crux?13:38
Rotwangextremely cool13:38
Rotwangchi11y from teeworlds?13:38
chi11yRotwang, ofcource13:38
* chi11y feels sooo famous13:39
tilmanRotwang: did you advertise crux on the teeworlds server? :D13:39
chi11ywell, as an experienced linux user who likes to configure, but not toooo much, is crux nice?13:40
chi11ytilman, hah, nawh13:40
chi11yI'm just randoming distrochans asking if their dist is cool13:40
pitillochi11y, check the official website and the handbook to know more about CRUX13:40
Rotwangtilman: i think i mentionet once or twice something to matricks13:40
tilmandid anyone admit their distro sucks yet? :D13:40
chi11yand if they sound secure enough on their thing I'll maybe have a try13:40
tilmanRotwang: ok:]13:40
chi11ypitillo, nawh13:41
pitillochi11y, :)13:41
chi11ypitillo, but a few channels was inactive enough to dare to answer x)13:41
Rotwangchi11y: there is not much to configure13:43
tilmanthere's no debconf/yast/linuxconf/whataretheycalled though13:43
chi11ytilman, key, but ports servs as a package manager atleast?13:44
chi11yand it has dependency support?13:44
treachand no13:44
Rotwangprt-get manages dependencies13:44
tilmanyes / pretty much13:44
chi11ysource or binary?13:45
chi11youch :/13:45
treachfor the most part :>13:45
Rotwangchi11y: read the about or handbook ;]13:45
chi11yisnt source veeeery slow?13:45
treachooo, and eclipse are binary :)13:45
chi11yRotwang, I prefer humans rather than handbooks13:45
thrice`it's source, but the toolchain stuff ships binary13:45
Rotwangchi11y: only in the begining13:45
treachmost other stuff builds pretty quickly13:45
Rotwangwhen you need to setup everything13:45
chi11ytreach, compared to portage?13:46
chi11yI find portage to be very slow13:46
treachdon't compare those two13:46
chi11ycompared to apt?13:46
treachwell. apt is for binaries.13:46
chi11yI kno13:46
chi11ythats why I compared to portage13:46
treachportagee is totally overcomplicated13:47
treach"the crux way" is pretty much as head on, straight forward as it gets.13:47
treachno masked, this arch only, no useflages etc, etc stuff.13:48
chi11yah, okey13:48
treachand no buildscripts the size of small essays.13:49
tilmanmore like post-its13:49
chi11ythe thing that bothers me is the lack of dependency checking13:49
treachtilman: exactly. :D13:49
treachchi11y: prt-get deals with that.13:49
chi11yelse than that, it sounds resonable13:49
chi11ytreach, so eh13:49
treachbut YOU have the final say13:49
chi11ytreach, lets say I'd like to install firefox13:49
treachprt-get depinst firefox13:50
chi11ykay, great13:50
treach(some time later. :> )13:50
chi11yso well13:51
treachthere are probably several differnt ways to do this, but I personally usually just check the dependencies of an application before I start with "prt-get depends"13:51
chi11ykeeping firefox as an emxaple13:51
treachthen I just depinstall it, with the possible addition of the --ignore switch13:51
chi11yhow long time would it take before I'm @ google?13:52
treachfor stuff I don't need/want13:52
tilmancptn: ^^^ prt-get usage ;D13:52
thrice`firefox is worst-case13:52
treachchi11y: obviously, that depends on how much you know in advance13:52
cptntilman: heh13:52
* cptn is taking notes13:52
chi11ywell, quite an normal example13:52
treachthrice`: at least until Rotwang merges his source based ooo port. ;D13:52
thrice`true :P13:53
chi11ytreach, well hmm13:53
thrice`one feature I'd like on prt-get is prt-get catch-secret-new-deps sysup13:53
cptnthrice`: do you follow the mailing list?13:53
treachthrice`: like that libarchive stuff?13:53
tilmanthrice`: cptn has announced that13:53
* treach hides from tilman 13:53
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tilmanyes, ffs13:53
tilmankeep on mentioning libarchive13:53
tilmanhytter med naven!13:53
* chi11y oxÄ13:54
thrice`cptn: I havent' in about a week or so.  is prt-get being looked at again?13:54
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treachchi11y: in joke, sorry13:54
tilmanchi11y: you should know how to properly configure a bootloader and a linux kernel, btw ;)13:54
chi11ytilman, bootloader is noprob, kernel compiling is mabyprob13:54
treachjust keep track of what hw you have, and when you get a working config SAVE IT. ;D13:55
thrice`cptn: ah, nice :)13:56
* chi11y hates how ubuntu makes you lazy, when using fedora and arch I wouldnt had anything against kernelcompilation... <.<13:56
Rotwangubuntu makes people lazy13:57
treach"swings and turnabout", is that the correct term?13:57
Rotwangiubuntu configured my printer faster than i did it on windows :O13:57
treachubuntu, fedora etc saves time in some aspects, but in different circumstances they can cause you a LOT of headaches when stuff doesn't work right..13:58
Rotwangif something goes wrong with distro specific tool then youre toast13:59
treachnot really, but it's very painful usually.13:59
chi11ybtw, anyone tried out opensuse 11?14:00
chi11yhow is it?14:00
treachAs a KDE user, IMO it's not fully baked yet.14:01
treachI don't use gnome, so I can't say how it works with that14:01
chi11yKDE4 isnt very good yet so it will be hard for any distro trying to konquer it (notice the pun :D)14:02
treachkde4 on suse is pretty ok, if a bit limited.14:02
treachthe biggest problem is that all apps aren't there yet14:02
treachno kdepim, kdevelop, ktorrent etc14:03
thrice`there are in 4.114:03
chi11ywhen I used kde, the big plus was its many apps, and how well they fitted together14:03
treachyes. but kde4.1 isn't relased yet.14:03
chi11ynow Im more of a gnome guy14:03
treachand it's not part of osuse1114:03
chi11yopenbox guy really, but more gnome than kde ;P14:03
Rotwangchi11y: try some wm's14:03
chi11yRotwang, :D14:04
tilmani heard openbox rocks14:04
chi11yopenbox ftw14:04
chi11yit does14:04
treachRotwang: if you want a de, a wm is no substitute14:04
chi11ybut it requires some confing14:04
treachKDE rocks like no other DE14:04
treachintegration is just unbeatable14:04
Rotwangtreach: sir, i beg to differ14:04
chi11yI dont like qt14:05
thrice`i've been using xfce for a week or so, and think it's quite nice14:05
chi11yqt isnt as well-made as gtk14:05
chi11ygtk feels better for the end-user14:05
treachgtk is poorly documented and buggy compared to qt.14:05
chi11ybut qt is easier to develop I know14:06
Rotwangi preffer gtk too14:06
chi11ystill, for the end-user, gtk has a more polished feeling14:06
treachno it doesn't, but I guess that's just an opion thing. :>14:06
chi11yI think both gtk and qt sux visually though14:06
cptnchi11y: yet apps of the qt DE fit better together (according to you)14:07
cptnnot sure why gtk should better for the end user14:07
chi11ycptn, they fit, but aren't visually appealing14:07
treachcptn: no that was me who said it fits better together, unless I missed something14:07
chi11yI said that too14:07
treachoh ok14:08
cptneverybody says it :-)14:08
treachsorry, a bit distracted, partially on the run14:08
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treachtilman: /away afk15:24
treachops, sry :]15:24
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cruxbot[contrib.git]: trac: 0.10.4 -> 0.1116:06
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treachyay. eclipse on crux64 is pretty quick. :p17:25
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thrice`er, conky isn't doing so well o.O  battery_time is giving me 20 mins. remaining on a charged battery :(17:28
treachconky is weird.17:29
thrice`what do you use for battery monitoring ?17:29
treachI've stopped using it, since it used absurd amounts of cpu time for me.17:29
treachnothing atm, since my laptop is dead atm. :/17:29
thrice`ah; and before death? :)17:30
treachI used to use gkrellm17:30
thrice`ah, ok17:30
thrice`I think i'm just going to stick an "easy" distro on here and give up.  laptops are too difficult and time consuming17:34
treachor just look at the battery LED. ;)17:34
treach(OR wait for hit 2. Laptop goes down. :p )17:35
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