IRC Logs for #crux Monday, 2008-07-21

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pitillogood morning00:55
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nipuLoh nice, etax 2008 works under wine now01:47
nipuLcrap, no it doesn't01:55
nipuLthey should hurry up and get msxml working properly01:55
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augustaodoes anybody have a ghc package?03:01
* augustao doesn't want to write a Pkgfile that will bootstrap ghc (which is needed to compile it)03:01
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cptnaugustao: there are two ghc ports in the ports DB03:12
augustaoyou need ghc in order to compile ghc03:14
jwscptn: mind if i steal you .conkyrc ? :D03:14
augustaoi should get a binary from another distro and compile my own03:15
jwscptn: using droopy here << :D03:15
cptnaugustao: well, at least one of the two uses an RPM...03:16
augustaoheh, i tried that one too. broken link. but thanks anyways :-)03:16
cptnjws: feel free to steal it :-)03:16
jwsthx. also im gonna publish my local repo if you want to push that to portdb03:18
cptnhas 10+ mirrors for the source file...03:21
augustaothanks, but it turns out hosts binaries for it too03:23
mike_kdoes anyone use grub on pure x86_64?03:44
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cptnjws: where did you find my conkyrc btw?04:32
cptncan't really remember uploading it ;-)04:32
sepen  (Paste number 11176: conkyrc)04:34
jwscptn: it was a request ;)04:36
cptnah :-)04:36
cptnsepen: nice find!04:37
jwsthanks cptn ;)04:40
cptnjws: note that I played with the own_window_* variables recently while playing with compiz04:40
cptnso for *box, own_window could be "no"04:40
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RedShiftcptn: mandrake? RPM? wtf?04:58
cptnRedShift: well, augustao wanted a binary port of ghc04:59
cptnI don't even know haskell myself :-)05:00
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jwsxcb_xlib.c:73: xcb_xlib_lock: Assertion `!c->xlib.lock' <<05:32
jwshmm i thought that was fixed in the latest realese O_o05:32
jwsrather than running LIBXCB_ALLOW_SLOPPY_LOCK=true foo..05:33
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cruxbot[contrib.git]: fmod: Updated 4.16.03 -> 4.16.0605:56
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RotwangteK: ping07:17
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L3thalerrm , hmm i installed crux but at the kernel step , i used my current 2.6.25 config ( zcat /proc/config.gz > .config ) , compiled modules installed them etc ... , but i cant boot the system09:21
Rotwangthat may be stupid09:22
L3thalkernel panic saying the error was that it cant detect the root fs or it doesnt know the root partition09:22
Rotwangbut of course you dont use initramfs?09:22
L3thali dunno if the error is from the kernel or the grub09:22
L3thalbut it cant be grub09:22
Rotwangand filesystem is compiled in?09:22
L3thalRotwang: i dont09:22
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L3thalyep , built ir09:22
L3thalin *09:22
thrice`hm, I like the rc-color mod for booting :)09:23
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L3thalRotwang: so any idea ?09:24
Rotwangno :{09:24
RedShiftI think it's ugly09:24
RedShiftespecially the  ** in front09:24
Rotwangil make wiki page on that later ;]09:25
L3thalyou think i should use a init ram as in this current system ?09:25
RotwangRedShift: you dont use it anyway09:25
RedShiftyes, so?09:25
RotwangL3thal: no09:25
RotwangRedShift: you havent seen it in action, did you?09:25
RedShiftI saw the screenshots09:25
RedShiftreminds me a bit of gentoo09:26
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Rotwangactually I borrowed some ideas from arch ;p09:26
treachheh, borrowed ideas from Arch, made it look like Gentoo -> FAIL? :>09:27
Rotwangbesides im oppen for suggestions09:27
RedShiftI like the blue/white theme of archlinux09:28
RedShiftI don't like green09:28
RedShiftbut that's personal09:28
RedShiftif you make the colors configurable they can easily customize it09:28
treachL3thal: you don't need an initrd. You need to get your fstab/lilo.conf/kernel stuff in order.09:28
thrice`I like that it looks like the install CD09:28
treachHercules Graphics ftw. :>09:29
L3thaltreach: its not fstab if it cant mount the root fs09:29
thrice`that doesn't mean fstab :)09:29
thrice`it means fstab doesn't have all that it needs, which is usually kernel support for the root file system or SATA / IDE stuff09:30
treachL3thal: I didn't say your fstab was *wrong*, I said it's one the things you've got to make sure is consistent with the rest.09:30
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L3thaltreach: i didnt say you were wrong ;D09:30
L3thali guess it might be grub09:31
Rotwangi dont think so09:31
treachkernel support for fs driver, disk controller, and lilo/grub seems much more likely.09:31
RotwangL3thal: show us your grub entry for crux09:31
treachbetter yet. Show us the money. :D09:32
thrice`Rotwang: though, I admit, the color pkgtools would give me a headache :P09:32
RotwangI like them :p09:32
Rotwangstdout is bold09:32
L3thaldoes kernel 2.6.23 reads SATA as hda ?09:32
Rotwangwhy no?09:33
treachSATA is sdX09:33
Rotwangnot always :p09:33
treachah, right09:33
L3thalin slackware09:33
treachI misunderstood.09:33
L3thalit reads my sata as hda09:33
L3thalhdx *09:33
Rotwangit depends on kernel configuration09:33
L3thalbut if iam using arch kernel configs which reads my sata as sdx then it should be sda09:34
L3thalok :)09:34
RotwangL3thal: but arch uses initramfs09:34
L3thali know09:34
L3thalso i have to use init ram in crux  too ?09:35
treachL3thal: initram is only needed if you need to load modules in order to boot your system09:35
thrice`if you use arch's config without changing anything, you will09:35
L3thalroot   (hd0,1)09:35
L3thalkernel (hd0,1)/boot/vmlinuz root=/dev/sda2 ro09:35
L3thalthats crux entry09:36
Rotwangseems ok for me09:36
L3thalthen its the kernel09:36
augustaoif you're using arch's config, then you're going to need an initrd image09:36
treache.g if you have your root filesystem driver (let's say ext3) as a module, you need initrd09:36
treachbut that's just silly.09:37
L3thalits reiser and its BUILT IN09:37
treachIt was an *EXAMPLE*09:37
treachhow do I make that blink..?09:37
Rotwangi had mkinitcpio port :p09:38
RotwangL3thal: you stil may copy working kernel from somewhere else09:40
L3thali chrooted and made sire that reiser is built in09:40
cptnwhat about the SATA/IDE chipset?09:40
cptnis it built-in too?09:41
L3thalnever checked09:41
L3thallemme see09:41
thrice`so, you only checked 1 of the 2 candidates ? :P09:42
L3thalguess it wasn't xD09:50
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aonhi SiFuh09:58
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RotwangSpeichern means save?11:04
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Rotwangit's quite funny then ;]11:05
ice_creamlo; i've been going through the installation process on vbox; after compiling kernel, setting up lilo and restarting, got a fatal 'no boot system found' or so message.   I think I forgot to finish up /etc/fstab.   Basically, how do I access and change root filesystem from cd again?11:07
ice_creamcan i just go from the mount /dev/hd?? /mnt   steps onwards?11:09
ice_creami just have to mount everything again and then chroot11:10
Rotwangits simple as s$it11:10
ice_creamyea, i realize now everything was commented out by default in fstab =P11:11
tilmand'oh :p11:12
Rotwangehhh ;{11:12
surrounderlong live syntax highlighting :P11:17
surrounder�18:09:57�   ice_cream - yea, i realize now everything was commented out by default in fstab =P11:18
surroundereasy to spot with colours :P11:18
ice_creami suck at multitasking =P11:18
Rotwangand by spotting # at the begining of the line ;]11:20
augustaowrong window11:29
tilmanaon, rehabdoll: opt-x86_64 grew nicely last night :)11:29
Rotwangaugustao: I demand explantation for this shi$!!11:33
Rotwangwell it looks similar to my buddys pic ;]11:34
tilmancouldn't you telll from the filename?11:35
tilmanyour fault if you click *obesity*11:36
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tilmansepen: i'll try to get you a final answer tonight11:47
sepenok I should answer at ML too11:47
sepenthanks tilman11:48
Rotwangsepen in opt ;D yay11:48
sepentilman, atm I'm updating all ports in my working copy11:48
sepenRotwang, :)11:48
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sepenwell I'm also recompiling a new kernel11:49
sepenRotwang, for ati, of course11:49
* Rotwang congrats well earned opt to sepen11:49
sepenthanks :)11:50
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ice_creamhmm, back for more.. still cant figure out what to write to appease the evil lilo goddess12:10
Rotwangget grub ;]12:11
ice_creamlba32;  boot=noidea;  image=/boot/vmlinuz; label=CRUX     =/12:11
treachor boot=/dev/sdX12:12
ice_creamyes, i've exhausted everything =/12:12
ice_cream/dev/hda2  is where my /boot partition was made12:12
treachroot dev=/dev/{h,s}dX12:12
ice_creamcant it just be of the form  root dev=/dev/hda312:15
treachbeacause "boot" is the device where your boot sector is.12:16
treachwhich, may or may not coincide with where your systems root file system is.12:16
cptnit's just "root=/dev/sda2", isn't it?12:18
cptnnot "dev="12:18
treachcptn: you're rigth, getting distracted. :D12:19
cruxbot[contrib.git]: p5-version: updated to 0.7612:20
ice_creamalways after editing the file and running 'lilo', --> fatal: raid_setup: stat(what i wrote for boot=)12:20
cptndid you mount /dev?12:21
treachice_cream: I think that's your problem. lilo isn't run at all.12:21
cptnin the chroot, that is12:21
treachI've had that problem too.12:21
ice_creamouch, good point, i forgot this time around =/12:21
treachnot sure what causes it, you sometimes get it even if you do everything right.12:22
ice_creamit went well this time (boot=/dev/hda2  and later under image, root=/dev/hda3)12:23
* ice_cream reboots...12:23
cptnthat's wrong12:23
cptnboot is a disk12:23
cptnroot a partition12:23
ice_cream/dev/hda ?12:23
cptnunless you have another bootloader installed12:23
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cruxbot[opt.git]: cdrtools: updated to version 2.01.01a4312:37
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ice_creamlo; what's equivalent of aptitude search or  equery list13:29
treachprt-get is what most people use13:29
treach...... may I reccomend it's brilliant man page? :>13:30
ice_creamoh, ic, ports needs to be setup first13:33
Rotwang!!!!!!!! with a lots and lots of !!!!!!!!!!!13:33
ice_creamwell yes, why is the package system under section 4 and ports section 5?13:36
ice_creami was trying to go in order; how was i supposed to know =P13:36
* ice_cream goes to get food13:36
Rotwanghandbook isnt too large, is it? ;]13:37
treachOne would also assume most people would realise that without knowledge of package management, the ports aren't of much use..13:37
treachthere I go again. Logic; Not something for ordinary people. :>13:38
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tilmansepen: let's delay that mail by 24 hours.. i'm too stuffed with bbq to be able to write good emails now :D14:42
sepentilman, I've no hurry14:44
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Rotwanghow can I change mouse cursor in xorg without restarting it?15:07
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thrice`don't think that's possible15:09
Rotwangcrap :\15:09
thrice`that big of an issue? :)15:10
Rotwangpity I have to restart whole xorg to see different mouse cursor ;]15:10
thrice`maybe you don't :)  I'm probably wrong15:11
teKRotwang: llllag15:13
treachprobably. I don't remember any of the DEs having to restart X to change the cursor..15:14
thrice`xfce makes you, anyway15:15
RotwangteK: look at your freeciv port15:15
Rotwangit seems some ggz-gtk-client libs are missing in deps15:15
treachnote: If you regularily change cursors, avoid using xfce15:15
Rotwangthere isn't even such port in portdb15:15
teK+ it worked for me two versions ago.15:16
teKhow come you think this is missing?15:16
Rotwangwait a minute15:17
Rotwangchecking for GGZ library: ggz-gtk... no15:18
Rotwangconfigure: WARNING: no15:18
Rotwang  The library 'ggz-gtk' does not seem to be installed correctly.15:18
RotwangERROR: Building '/usr/ports/contrib/freeciv/freeciv#2.1.5-1.pkg.tar.gz' failed.15:18
Rotwangit builds fine when ggz-gtk-client is installed15:18
teKi'll check right now.15:20
Rotwangim restarting X :{15:21
teKi'm checking ... not I'll..15:21
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treacheither works15:22
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treachgrammatically, that is. only one can be true though. ;)15:22
Rotwangunfortunately ggz things can be found in gnome repo ;p15:27
cptn echo "[Icon Theme]" > ~/.icons/default/index.theme15:28
cptn echo "Inherits = crystal$version" >> ~/.icons/default/index.theme15:28
cptnreplace crystal$version with your cursor theme15:28
Rotwangi know it15:28
Rotwangand then what?15:28
cptnthis will only work for newly started apps15:28
cptnso you'll have to restart your WM15:28
cptnand all apps15:28
cptnbut not X itself15:28
Rotwangthats almost equal to restarting X ;]15:28
Rotwangcptn: but thanks anyway15:29
teKRotwang: it builds here without hassles. No gnome or ggz installed15:30
Rotwang  <-- wicked font btw15:30
Rotwangi had some ggz libs installed earlier15:30
Rotwangs/font/cursor theme15:31
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thrice`Rotwang: where did you set the cursor theme?15:40
Rotwang /usr/share/icons/default/index.theme15:41
thrice`ah, ok; and icons to ~/.icons ?15:43
Rotwangicons to /usr/share/icons15:43
Rotwangi always set them globaly15:43
Rotwangit works as cptn mentioned15:44
thrice`oh, ok; neat :)15:45
Rotwangbut unfortunatelly it seems that there is no way to fully reload cursor theme in a fly15:45
thrice`yeah, that must be on a per-WM basis?15:45
L3thalRotwang: all repos are in ?15:45
RotwangL3thal: i think so15:45
L3thaleven unofficial ones ?15:46
Rotwangopt/core/xorg are official15:46
L3thalsome packages cant find them , openbox-themes and obconf :(15:46
Rotwangrest is half/un official15:46
treachall reposs are in the prtdb, except those which aren't. :>15:47
L3thalobocnf is there15:47
Rotwangtreach: logic++15:47
L3thalonly themes isnt there :D15:47
treachRotwang: don't blame me. ;)15:48
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treachL3thal: I'd advice some caution when using repos found in the prtdb other than the official/semi official ones15:49
treachespecially yhafris stuff.. :>15:49
Rotwangtreach: maybe there should be list for a trusted repos ;]15:49
RotwangL3thal: watch out for yhafri repo15:49
treachRotwang: that's a tricky question15:50
L3thalRotwang: why ?15:50
L3thalit have over 2000 package :|15:50
Rotwangits the biggest repo but quality of ports is rather low15:51
thrice`and they are mostly outdated15:51
treachone could argue that the project shouldn't link to stuff that might hose your system, otoh, the user is the one ultimately responsible for what they put on their system.15:51
Rotwangtreach: true15:51
treachand it's of course impossible to vet everything.15:51
thrice`I think they are a great resource15:51
Rotwangthats why i always review pkgfiles ;] from unofficial repos15:52
L3thali think they should be in the official website15:52
treachthrice`: yes. but one *really* have to be careful.15:52
treachwhich not everyone might be15:52
L3thalthey are useful though15:52
teKRotwang: configure seems to miss something in your case. please let my machine build the current package with the new configure option and then resync + rebuild15:52
thrice`well, we can only support ports with our [non-existant] warranty that are official :P15:52
RotwangteK: hmm?15:53
treachIMO, the official repos shouldn't be listed on the same page as the contributed ones.15:53
teKwait some minutes and rebuild15:53
treachand the contributed ones should have big fat warning on the same page15:53
L3thalwasnt andrewb a crux user ? ;D15:53
treach"These ports are NOT vetted, and in fact some of them have been known to cause major problems in the past. Proceed with care. [OK/CANCEL] :>15:54
Rotwangi diagree15:56
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Rotwangcrux community is its strong part15:56
Rotwangso we should trust users15:57
ice_creamone has to manually go through (or write a script) to upgrade each package of the ports -d    'world', right?15:57
Rotwangports -u ?15:57
treachwell, we have to be honest too. and yahfri's stuff *have* hosed careless peoples system in the past.15:57
Rotwangprt-get sysup?15:57
ice_creamthat just syncs w/ the repos15:57
Rotwangtreach: so maybe there should be list of trusted repos :p15:58
ice_creamthx, missed that one15:58
Rotwangice_cream: ports -u;prt-get sysup15:58
treachwell, that's what I'm saying, isn't it?15:58
treachtrusted being the (semi)official ones, opt/core and contrib15:59
treachthe rest, use at your own risk.15:59
RotwangDISCLAIMER: the ports not belonging to the core and opt collections are provided by contributors; there is no guarantee or support by the CRUX team.15:59
treachjust listing everying is like telling people about a field full of beautifull flowers, but not telling them that there might be landmines buried..16:00
treachthat doesn't help.16:00
treachit shouldn't be on the same page at all.16:00
Rotwanggood analogy ;]16:00
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treachthank you16:00
Rotwangtreach: I agree16:00
Rotwangmaybe something like crux repos | unofficial repos or sth like that16:01
Rotwangby the way, sepen is in charge of xfce but jue's mail is in portdb :x under maintainer16:03
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cruxbot[contrib.git]: freeciv: disable ggz-client16:24
teKhat to play freeciv myself, sry *g*16:24
treachROFL "Yahoo is unable to assist you in upgrading your OS."16:27
treachThank $DIETY. :D16:27
surrounderoeh, the install-cd has the via_rhine module o//16:43
* surrounder blesses screen and irssi16:43
treachwhat about the person who put the via_rhine module there? ;)16:44
treachpromotion to god? :P16:44
surrounderthat one deserves a statue16:44
surrounderit just fits my laziness, could also walk over to my bed to get my laptop but this chair is so comfy16:45
treachwhy deal with two systems when one is enough? :>16:46
surrounderbecause when I'm on call it's nice to have a laptop in bed so you don't have to get up when you get smsed at 4 in the morning :P16:47
treachthat's a true geek, sleeping with his compter. :>16:48
surroundershe doesn't even care when I snort <316:49
treach"snore" I guess though. :D16:49
surrounderah yeah, my bad :P16:49
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RotwangAttention! Your PC may not have virus protection system. This may lead to your PC being infected.17:44
RotwangNow your system will be scanned for security risks.17:44
RotwangPress OK to continue.17:44
Rotwangwtf is this im asking!!17:44
* Rotwang demands explantation for this bullshi$!17:44
treachheh, better do as they say. :D17:44
Rotwangfirefox crashed and gave me this error :x17:45
Rotwangsmart ad ;]17:45
Rotwangreally smart17:45
treachdunno why, but all those adds with "warning your computer may be at risk" stuff always reminds me of a scene from some old tv-serie, scene being in England during Roman occupation.17:52
treachThe guys are about to enter a brothel, and are asked by the owner if they carry any of a whole string of various various veneric diseases.17:53
treachOnce they have assured that they don't, and are admitted, the guy says behind their backs "Good, you will soon have them". :>17:54
treachah, apparently it was "Chelmsford 123" :)17:55
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L3thaldoest prt-get resolve dependencies ?18:47
treachdid you read the man page?18:47
L3thalstill updating the system18:47
treachI suggest you start with that then.18:47
L3thalhmm ok just tell me if it does or not ? :D18:48
surrounderL3thal: that's in the handbook on the install cd even18:48
L3thalso depinst do that :D18:49
L3thalnice :)18:49
treachbut I *really* suggest rtfm18:49
jwsrc  2.17-5  2.19-1   long overdue for an update :P18:49
treachin fact, if there is ONE manual related to crux you should read, it's the prt-get one, IMO18:50
L3thalyep just read a review about gentoo vs crux , the guy said that crux doesnt resolve depends18:50
treachyou shouldn't put so much faith in everything you read on the Internet. ;)18:50
treachbut it's technically true though.18:51
treachCrux doesn't resolve deps, prt-get does.18:51
L3thalprt-get is a part of crux18:51
L3thalfrom the base system18:51
treachwell, it's a pretty recent addition18:52
treachoriginally it wasn't part of the system18:52
VileTimesI've had a pretty good experience with CRUX and depends so far. prt-get depinst --install-scripts <packagename> usually does it. I might have to update the footprint, but that's only a matter of running the same command again with the -uf option.18:57
VileTimesOne week in, and my crappy laptop is happier than it has ever been. :)18:57
treachas long as you don't get frequent updates to firefox. ;)18:58
VileTimesOpera user here. ;)18:58
treachreasonable enough18:59
treachnot dynamically linked to qt guess though. :>18:59
VileTimesI just find it easier on system resources and quite a bit snappier. Sure, I could use only elinks, but...19:00
treachI meant that building / upgrading qt isn't any more fun than firefox.19:01
VileTimesOh, I see.19:01
treachso I guessed you're using the static version. :>19:01
L3thalhmm , i downloaded some repos httpups put the, in /etc/ports/ and updated them successfuly , but prt-get doesnt see it , where to add the repos so it can read them ?19:02
L3thalto pkgmk.conf ? any wiki ?19:02
jwspkgmk.conf <<19:02
treachman page..19:02
jwsyea what treach says19:03
VileTimesYou need to insert the dir path in /etc/prt-get.conf19:03
VileTimesTook me many hours to compile Opera. I can't image how long it would take to compile Firefox.19:04
L3thalalright , thnx19:04
treachhahah, ok...19:04
treachVileTimes: apparently the statically linked port is gone, there used to be one for that too.19:05
jwstry imagine compiling qt419:05
treachSo you spent all that time building qt.19:05
jwsor openoffice from source for that matter19:05
treachopera is binary only, so it doesn't take long19:05
treachopenoffice from source is madness.19:05
VileTimesEssentially, yeah, treach.19:06
VileTimesOpera 9.2 can't seem to find the flashplayer under Linux. 9.5+ can.19:07
treachheh, flash. first you can't make it run, and then you can't make it stop. :>19:07
VileTimesIt's a very different experience all-around. I've never tried a source-based distribution. I was a Slackware user for many years, but there wasn't as much "source-iness" involved.19:12
treachonly when you want stuff that isn't prepackaged. :/19:12
VileTimesEven Slackware had pre-made kernels. No such thing in Crux.19:13
treachI know.19:13
treachbut the kernel isn't everything.19:13
treachthere are lots and lots of stuff around that is good or useful that isn't packaged for slack.19:14
treachbeen there, done that. have the t-shirt.  :>19:14
treachlots of old slackware users here. :>19:15
VileTimesI'm not saying pre-packaged is the way to go at all. There are many advantages to Crux.19:15
treachk, now we're having a little missunderstanding again. :)19:15
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treachthat's not what I thought. I was just having a little issue with your statement that there isn't much "source-iness" in slack.19:16
treachIME, there's a lot, but it's all on your own.19:17
treachbut who knows. it's been years since I dumped slack, so maybe things have changed even if it seems unlikely.19:18
VileTimesWhen I boot up my old laptop, htop says I'm using only 10meg worth of RAM on boot,  23meg once OpenBox fires up. There's just no comparison.19:18
treachyeah. and it's fast too.19:18
jws200mb once firefox fires up <<19:18
VileTimesI've got an old PIII lappy with 256meg of RAM so every meg counts. Crux suits the job perfectly.19:19
VileTimesNo Firefox on crappy-lappy. elinks and opera.19:19
jwslappy rofl19:19
treachyep. stick with the basic stuff.19:19
jwsyea w3m does a great job aswell19:20
treachI really need to get a new powercord to mine.. hard to find though. :(19:20
VileTimesNothing on eBay?19:20
treachI don't live in the US.19:21
VileTimesOh ... ok, I see the problem.19:21
treachyeah. happily it's an IBM, so there's still hope. :)19:21
VileTimes\I'll say. They've made tons of laptops. I'm sure you can find something used somewhere.19:22
treachthey are probably also the manufacturer that stocks parts the longest.19:22
VileTimesOh - in passing, does anyone know of a few good pypanelrc files I can muck about with?19:23
treachnot me.19:24
VileTimesI use this for my crappy-lappy's wallpaper to confuse people :D:
treachI don't have a wallpaper on mine. I use to run vim in the console at 1024x768. :)19:26
treachlots of confusion too. ;)19:26
VileTimesThat won't fool anyone. Perhaps I should install an OSX wallpaper and install wbar... hmmmm....19:26
treachwell, at least it scares some people. :D19:27
VileTimesI'm sure a magnetic USB apple logo that lights up can't be more than $80USD.19:27
VileTimesWait! Magnets and computers don't go together!19:28
VileTimesI hate Apple. :(19:28
treachI considered getting an used mini and put crux on it. :p19:29
surrounderI like my 12" G4 PowerBook too19:29
surrounderesp since crux runs on it :P19:29
treachthen I could post a few photos of it running crux to some mac fanboi sites. :D19:29
surrounderwireless and sleep/hibernate not working though, but I'm more on the right track now then I was under debian/fedora/YDL19:29
VileTimesI'd love it if someone gave me an Apple, but there is no way in hell that I'm shelling out that sort of cash.19:29
surroundertreach: :D19:29
treachsurrounder: have you considered doing that? ;)19:30
surroundertreach: oh yeah ^_^19:30
surroundertreach: especially to the fanboi I bought it from :P19:30
treachit would be awesome. :)19:30
surrounderaye o//19:31
VileTimesA Mac fanboy once told me that there is less latency between the hardware and the OS compared to Windows. Is this true?19:31
surrounderaah good to be back on 100% crux at home19:31
treachVileTimes: for what? For OSX? I doubt it.19:32
surrounderVileTimes: no idea, I know linux has a low-latency kernel setting19:32
VileTimesI'm not sure. I seem to have a very difficult time finding anyone who can list the selling points of a Mac other than, "You click on the icon, and it just works".19:33
VileTimesidesk under linux does that. So what?19:33
treachwell, there are selling points, but what those are depends I guess.19:33
surrounderthe only reason I bought mine is that I could get it rather cheap (eur 250)19:34
surrounderthat's quite good for a 12" 1,33 Ghz G4 with 768 MB ram and a 80 GB hd19:34
treachI think it would be hard to find something compareable to the mini if you consider size etc as well.19:34
VileTimesI just wish I could find someone who doesn't speak gibberish when talking about a Mac.19:34
surrounderthe devices are nice19:35
VileTimesThat isn't a bad price at all.19:35
surrounderI love the small size of mine19:35
surroundergreat for a laptop really19:35
treach"omg, a mac isn't expensive, you get iThis and iThat with it"19:35
treach"Sure bud, but I don't want iThis and iThat"...19:36
surrounderwell, macosx is quite a nice OS really but it being closed sourced leaves a bad taste in my mouth19:36
treachopen or closed doesn't matter that much, I find mac os much more obnoxious from a usability pov.19:36
treachit's constantly "the mac way, or the highway"19:37
surrounderdidn't find it that annoying really19:37
surrounderit's not as in your face as windows at least19:37
VileTimesYou know, that's never really bothered me, it's all of the crap they decide you need (both Apple and MS) that pisses me off. I subscribe to the philosophy that a desktop is there to make it easier to get to my desired applications while taking next to no resources.19:37
surrounderhehe so true19:38
VileTimesMy system resources are for the apps that I want to use, not for their crappy idea of a UI.19:38
treachalso - admittedly it's second hand information - but apparently using a mac with files on the network is extremely confusing.19:38
treachagreed about the resource point.19:38
surrounderdunno, I use it like a linuxbox anyhows, all scp and sftp :P19:39
treachI'll never use OSX after watching some poor disputée having his presentation hidden away from him by the system. :>19:40
surrounderhaha wth ?19:41
treachI've heard about that from other people as well. I don't remember what triggers it.19:41
VileTimesHe should've used the Finder!19:41
treachbut apparently the os tries to be smart or something.19:41
treachit's a prime example of mac os usability.19:42
treachit might work, but not unless you know the secret code.19:43
surrounder*cough* hailsteve *cough*19:43
treachlike throwing the diskett in the trashcan to eject it.19:43
VileTimesI forgot when I encountered this thing known as the Finder, but I didn't find much.19:43
treachgetting tired.19:44
VileTimesIn passing, what the heck is Appletalk and why does it not use TCP/IP?19:45
treachbecause it's OLD19:46
treach*really* old.19:46
treachlike older than ethernet.19:46
VileTimesYeah, but only four years ago I had to network Apple machines with PCs, and I had to use a Linux machine as a middleman so they could communicate.19:47
treachok. but that wasn't modern macs, right?19:47
VileTimesFour years ago is all I know. I was astonished, truth be told.19:48
treachold macs only knew apple talk, but surely osx spoke tcp/ip from the start..?19:49
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VileTimesNot in this office. I know nothing about Mac, but it was clear that the machine I had to work with couldn't use tcp/ip for a LAN. There was a Samba solution, but you had to buy it.19:51
surrounderVileTimes: not so for osx19:51
surrounderat least not for leopard19:52
VileTimesNo, I know things have vastly improved on that front for Mac these days.19:52
surrounderall works out of the box, including ssh, samba19:52
treachI don't know much about mac either, but apple talk was entirely different, it even had a different network layout19:52
* surrounder going to do a little zzzing19:54
VileTimesThe point remains though that, back then, I was a Linux user of approximately 18 months, and it was then I understood how much I learnt by using Linux. The internet actually made sense.19:54
surroundernn treach and VileTimes19:54
VileTimesBe well, surr.19:54
treachnn surrounder19:54
treachmost things makes sense compared to a mac. :D19:55
VileTimesI suppose. I do wish I had access to one just for giggles so I might look at what's going on under the hood. I'm just not willing to pay much for it.19:56
VileTimesNot when I can get a far more powerful PC for the same money.19:57
treachwell, ebay or something similar could be of help, I presume.19:57
treachsome ppc equipped model shouldn't be too expensive, and they should be good enough as toys. :)19:58
VileTimesSure, but I'm having a ton of fun with Crux right now, and purchased an Atheros based wireless PCMCIA card so I can learn a bit more about aircrack-ng. :D19:58
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nipuLwft, this guy broke his heatsink, so he tried to superglue it to the cpu20:46
nipuLand wonders why it shuts down after 30 seconds20:47
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nipuLugh, the thermal paste has fused with the glue21:25
nipuLscrew trying to get it off, this moron deserves to pay for his stupidity21:26
go|dfishSome people should not be allowed near computers.21:27
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