IRC Logs for #crux Tuesday, 2008-07-22

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pitillogood morning00:57
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jws2hi pitillo01:21
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surroundermorning peeps01:57
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cruxbot[opt.git]: dnsmasq: update to 2.4503:06
cruxbot[core.git]: strace: update to 4.5.1703:11
cruxbot[core.git]: module-init-tools: update to 3.403:16
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aonmorning sepen03:52
aonit's easier to type with mobile phones under your wrists :)03:55
aonnokia 5500 is better for this purpose than 1100, though03:55
aonthe 1100 slides aroudn03:55
aonalthough a proper wrist support might be cheaper :)03:55
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nipuLhaha, just spent 5 minutes why i couldn't print from the command line04:37
nipuLrealised i was logged into work04:37
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cruxbot[xfce.git]: xfce4-cpugraph-plugin: New port.05:18
cruxbot[xfce.git]: xfce4-netload-plugin: New port.05:18
cruxbot[xfce.git]: xfce4-smartpm-plugin: Removed port.05:31
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ice_creamsuddenly crux seems much more fun, now that x is working =P08:36
* ice_cream tips his hat to the people from yesterday08:36
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* surrounder also happy he installed it again on his desktop yesterday08:41
surroundernow all my boxes run it again o//08:41
ice_creamheh, all?08:41
* ice_cream wonders about variable change08:41
surrounderonly 3 :P08:42
ice_creamquote/paraphrase from 21 --"ben finds himself in a!  Much better than those goats you've been riding around campus"08:43
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ice_creamsurrounder, that also says something about you and amd08:51
ice_creamwhat do you have against amd? =P08:51
surrounderuhm ?08:52
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ice_creambtw, is it ok if i add something like   as a source mirror  in pkgmk.conf?08:59
cptnit is from a technical point of view08:59
treachI don't think any cruxers would complain. ;)08:59
ice_creambut i'd also like to ignore  dl.sourceforge.net09:00
ice_creamas i cant find it09:00
rauz_mh.. how do i mount a mdf image ?09:01
jwsargh spent 20min trying to debug a mutt send mail failure turns out i set msmtp to /usr/bin/local/smtp grr09:01
ice_creamwhere can i find the default list of mirrors?09:01
cptnice_cream: mirrors for sourceforge?09:02
cptnrun 'dig'09:03
jwsrauz_: same way you would mount an iso image. mount -t..09:04
ice_creamcptn, it seems to return status: NOERROR, but that contrasts what happens during a pkgmk -d -i09:05
jwscptn: also is that terminus your using ? :P09:06
cptnjws: sure :-)09:06
cptnthat's the output I get09:07
treachhmm. About that pkgmk mirror thing.. is it really "proper conduct" - lacking a better term - to hit the mirror *first*?09:07
cptntreach: I think it was added for people who run local source mirrors09:07
cptnso in that case, it's correct09:07
treachI see.09:07
cptnclearly, we wouldn't recommend users to use i.e. gentoo distfile mirrors09:07
ice_creamports, ips, and dns are different, but rest is the same09:07
treachI was considering to use a gentoo distfile mirror as a backup for sites gone catatonic..09:08
cptnthat might even be against the TOS of their distfile servers; no idea09:08
ice_creamthe mirror i added is much faster, anyway =)    i just wonder what happens if a package version does not exist on the mirror09:10
treachit tries the original site09:10
jwswget, curl ;-)09:10
* ice_cream happily compiles fluxbox dependencies09:12
treachcptn: could we have that added as a feature request to pkgmk? To try the original site as default and only try the mirror if that fails. Or maybe have some switch to control the behaviour?09:12
cptnwell, you can add any feature request09:13
ice_creamit should only try original for a certain number of sec, then switch on a hang ( hung for me)09:13
cptnpersonally, I wasn't a fan of the mirror feature09:13
treachsure, I'm just asking if it makes sense.09:13
cptnsince there were no offical mirrors09:13
treachIMO, the mirror feature is a great idea, but ideally it would do things reversely.09:14
cptnideally, we would have distfile mirrors :-)09:14
treachI can't see any harm in automatically hitting a gentoo mirror if the original is inaccessible.09:15
ice_creami like it the way it is (try my mirror first, and if that fails, go to others) =P09:15
cptntreach: well, I don't see a problem if users hit the gentoo mirror first09:15
cptnbut I think it would be wrong if CRUX as a project would encourage that09:15
treachno, not technically.09:15
cptnso yeah, maybe it could be changed09:15
ice_creama great man once said, "resources are meant to be consumed"09:16
treachbut if you consume someone elses they might be ticked off. :>09:16
sepenmplayer has a gentoo distfile mirror as a source atm09:17
cptnmaybe we could think about a way to override it in pkgmk.conf09:17
cptnand keep the original implementation slim09:17
sepencptn, whould be the right hour for sending the remainder-casual-devel-meeting-mail?09:17
cptnit's probably a bit late now, but I can do that09:18
cptnnipuL's already asleep I fear09:18
ice_creamlupin? =P09:18
sepenwell I supose people known it09:18
cptnsent a reminder anyway09:22
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cptncan't hurt09:22
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ice_creami suggest adding a note about trying  'prt-get depends <package>' before attempting a pkgmk -d -i    (in the handbook)09:25
cptnI think the handbook is pretty clear when it comes to dependencies09:28
cptnMaybe we should add a note that people should read the whole handbook though :-)09:28
sepenmaybe it should have diagrams and pictures ilustrating things09:29
cptn"CRUX, with explanations by Dogbert"09:30
ice_creami suppose if that sort of thing turns you on...09:31
sepenbetter, Tanembaun should rewrite the handbook09:31
ice_creami'd prefer xkcd sketches09:31
surrounderice_cream: always hangs for me, that's why I added the IP of in my /etc/hosts09:32
surrounderice_cream: works like a charm09:32
ice_creamsurrounder, too late, i'm using gentoo mirror =P09:33
surrounderwell, still consider it before you try a prt-get sysup :P09:33
rauz_jws: i can not mount it09:33
rauz_and mdf2iso dont work09:33
cptnrauz_: did you try iat already?09:34
rauz_look nice09:36
rauz_i try it09:36
rauz_nice tool09:38
ice_creamsurrounder, shouldnt prt-get sysup work the same way, regardless of mirror?09:40
surrounderice_cream: well, quite a lot of packages download from dl.sf.net09:43
ice_creamoh, ic what you meant.. you simply bound the ip of heanet  to, effectively redirecting all instances of dl.sf.net09:44
ice_creamok, i'll do that for now (as i just came across a package not found on gentoo mirror) =)09:45
surrounderworks like a charm here :)09:45
ice_creamwhy didnt sf themselves make a redirection09:46
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sepenis that correct for saying 'dropped packets' in german-> 'fallengelassen Päckchen'?09:49
cptnfor networking09:50
sepenand for more than one pakete?09:51
sepenpakete too?09:51
cptna päckchen is a small parcel09:51
sepennice to known09:51
cptnone Paket, two Pakete09:51
sepenohh ok09:51
cptnand I don't think you can actually use fallengelassen for Networking...09:51
sepenand thanks09:51
sepenso ..09:52
cptnmaybe "verlorene Pakete"?09:52
sepenyeah, I want to say that I thikn09:52
cptnat least "verlorene Pakete" is used on a number of german websites09:53
sepenits curious to have all substantives in capital letters09:54
aonnot as curious as an upside-down question mark :)09:54
ice_creamupside-down question mark enriches a spanish sentence09:55
ice_creamesp. if thrown in the middle somewhere09:56
aoni see09:56
sepenwell you can get all the context where the question appears with that sentence09:56
ice_creammy dear friend, <u-d question mark> why do you cry at night <question mark>09:57
sepenI'm a girl, am I a girl? --->  soy una chica, ¿soy una chica?09:57
sepenalso the verb appear at the same location09:58
ice_creamwell...only if you decide to do that09:58
ice_creamtechnically, i think you can pull off     'una chica soy'09:59
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ice_creamold style =P09:59
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treach¡But! ¡Exlamation! ¡Marks! ¡Are! ¡A! ¡Bit ¡More! ¡Confusing! :D10:08
treachnot to mention that apple might sue you. :p10:08
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aonthe first disk burned with my new dvd+-rw drive is windows 98 se10:19
aoni just had to get that information into the log10:19
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teKin 1998?10:20
teKor 2008?10:20
teKdvd+-.. you're insane :10:20
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aonit's a cd-rw10:21
aonthe drive supports those too, surprisingly :)10:21
teKbut there were no dvd-burners in 1998, I guess10:21
aoni guess so10:21
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aonbut i don't have the win98 disk i had in 98 anymore, so i have to burn a new one10:21
aoni guess i could have a win95 oem disk somewhere, but that's just going too far10:22
tilmanwtf mailing list trouble again10:32
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VileTimesHey folks. Does anyone here have any experience burning DVDs from the command-line?10:54
VileTimesAfter I use dvdauthor to put everything together, correct?10:54
tilmani think you don't need dvdauthor10:55
tilmaniirc growisofs will create the ISO filesystem *and* put it on the disc10:55
tilmanbut it's been years since i burned a dvd :)10:55
VileTimesOh! Hmmm... so many tools.10:55
cptnno, just one10:55
VileTimesOk, thanks for pointing me in the right direction.10:56
treachmmmh. dvd+rw-tools depends on cdrtools.. any reason it couldn't work with cdrkit instead?10:57
tilmanprobably not10:57
cptnwell, it calles mkisofs10:58
tilmandidn't aon document this?10:58
cptnand cdrkit doesn't provide that (it's called genisoimage)10:58
cptnIIRC :-)10:58
tilmanexport MKISOFS=genisoimage10:58
treachtilman: maybe, I haven't looked10:58
tilmanor so10:58
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cptnI wonder if Viper has a good reason to keep cdrtools arounds :-)11:00
tilmanprobably not, since he didn't comment on the cdrkit plan11:01
cptn@seen Viper_11:03
clbcptn: Viper_ was last seen in #crux 10 weeks, 1 day, 5 hours, and 19 seconds ago: <Viper_> ok, thanks11:03
cptn@seen viper_11:04
clbcptn: viper_ was last seen in #crux 10 weeks, 1 day, 5 hours, and 31 seconds ago: <Viper_> ok, thanks11:04
cptnah right, one has to talk to be noticed11:04
aoni did document it, yeah11:16
aon or so11:16
cruxbot[core.git]: openssh: updated to 5.1p1.11:32
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ice_creamok, prt-get is too powerful..11:53
ice_creamprt-get depinst foo  is basically   emerge foo?11:55
tilmanice_cream-- # for assuming we know gentoo11:56
Rotwangbut we do not ;]11:56
thrice`ice_cream: yes, but crux doesn't use silly USE flags11:56
ice_cream# ?11:56
thrice`# is a comment, of course11:56
Rotwangbtw, why always crux newbies11:56
clbtreach: Highest karma: "treach" (3), "cruxbot" (2), and "treach: logic" (1).  Lowest karma: "--- ping statistics -" (-3), "gentoo" (-3), and "<" (-1).  You (treach) are ranked 1 out of 82.11:56
Rotwangcompares crux to gentoo?11:57
ice_creambetter than nothing =P11:57
ice_creamwhat else do i have to compare to =)11:57
Rotwangcrux is not gentoo ;p11:57
tilmantreach: :p11:57
ice_creamwhat other popular source-based distro can i compare to ;)11:57
treachtilman: well, that wasn't really the point. ;)11:58
VileTimesI've never even heard of Gentoo.11:58
tilmanpopular? crux is popular?11:58
treach"gentoo" (-3)11:58
tilmanyeah yeah11:58
Rotwangcrux is completely different than gentoo11:58
* ice_cream didnt realize there was rivalry11:58
Rotwangand gentoo sux11:58
ice_creami didn't catch that last one11:59
tilmanice_cream: there isn't. we're just poking fun at gentoo from time to time11:59
augustaogentoo does suck. but you have to admit the USE flags are kinda nifty11:59
treachice_cream: it's not rivalry. it's just that gentoo isn't well liked because lots of stuff with it is just about oposite, and from our pov really stupid11:59
ice_creammaybe lost to rounding errors =P11:59
VileTimesThis is the first time I try a source-based distro, and I like it a lot. I think crux's install process had a lot to do with my final opinion.11:59
treachwho have the most users is inconsequential11:59
ice_creamone's pov is based on one's experience..12:00
treachwell, when the people involved basically admitts the distribution is unsupportable it'd say there's something wrong.12:01
VileTimes:D ... that's ridiculous, Treach. Why bother with Gentoo in that case? Go LFS instead.12:03
treachwhat's rediculous, and why?12:03
VileTimesThat a distribution is "unsupportable". Why bother with calling it a distro at all in that case?12:04
treachGentoo IS basically unsupportable. There are just too many permutations of it. It's impossible to test them all.12:04
treachevery time someone changes a USE flag, you get a new permutation12:04
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VileTimesGreetings & Felicitations!12:06
treachI presume that's why stuff in gentoo tend to break left, right and center when they aren't masked etc.:>12:06
VileTimesSome cohesion is necessary if something is going to refer to itself as a "Linux distro", otherwise it's just LFS with a funny name.12:07
thrice`yeah.  there is *no* way ebuild maintainers test all variations of an update (ie, with / without USE 1, with/without USE 2, etc.)12:08
surrounderand let not forget portage is dogslow12:09
ice_creami didn't realize crux grew big enough to criticize such a giant12:17
thrice`not critisize; what they have obviously works decent for alot.  just some who dislike it, of course :)12:18
VileTimesSo one needs to be "big" to have an opinion?12:18
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Rotwangi dont buy this argument12:19
treachVileTimes: yeah. just like you need to have a fat wallet to have valid arguments in general. :>12:19
ice_creamthe opinion was basically  crux > gentoo12:19
ice_cream.: i asked12:19
Rotwangthats why we use crux12:19
Rotwangnot gentoo ;]12:19
treachice_cream: no, the opinion was "gentoo is crap, for reasons x, y, and z".12:20
Rotwangbtw i need someone who knows english pretty well12:20
Rotwangim trying to track this songs title:
Rotwangif anyone could help ;]12:20
VileTimesPersonally, I've never used Gentoo and probably never will. I'm not criticizing. I just happened upon crux, and like it enough to stick around.12:21
ice_creamtreach, it turned into implication of "crux is supportable and gentoo is not;  crux is better than gentoo"12:21
treachso? Isn't that true?12:22
Rotwangice_cream: it turns gentoo is not worthy to be mentioned in this channel more than once a year :p12:22
ice_creamit's that time of the year? =D12:22
ice_creamall this anger began from the simple question of if one aspect of prt-get was similar to emerge?12:22
treachAnger? Where?12:23
thrice`it's all opinions.  Some people /love/ USE flags, for example.  personally, I hate them :-)12:24
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VileTimesSorry, only opinions based on a complete lack of experience with gentoo here. :)12:25
treachPeople can actually have opinions, even strong such, without being angry. Amazing, isn't it. :>12:25
ice_creamyea, i guess these days it's possible to call something crap or say that it sucks w/o a trace of emotion..12:27
VileTimesNot on Jerry Springer they can't.12:27
ice_creambe angry, by all means; i'm not offended.  Just don't suppress anger, as it can have bad side effects12:28
cptnit leads to the dark side, for example12:28
treachdude. I'm sitting here and eating ice-cream - really - and I'm about as cool as I can be.12:28
ice_creammmm, yes, anger clouds one's judgment12:28
treachcrap is crap, and that is nothing to get exited about.. :>12:29
tilmanfear is the mind killer12:29
tilmanoops, wrong movie12:29
tilmanand wrong feeling12:29
* tilman fails12:29
VileTimes... and it leads pustules in the least likeliest places.12:29
treachmaybe, since english isn't my native language the way I speak carries some connotation I'm not aware of. *shrug*12:30
tilmantreach: yeah, it carries the bork bork bork connotation12:30
ice_creambtw, completely offtopic... why does double-clicking anywhere on a page bring me to a login screen12:30
treachshut up kraut. ;)12:30
cptntilman: lol12:30
tilmanice_cream: that's a feature of the wiki we're using12:30
cptnan annoying one12:31
* ice_cream nods12:31
cptnat least in many cases :-)12:31
tilmanfreaks everyone out the first time12:31
* ice_cream calmly disables javascript..12:31
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ice_creami like crux so far, don't get me wrong =)12:35
ice_creamjust a few minor nitpicks ;)   *cough* lilo12:36
tilmanfeel free to install grub...12:36
* ice_cream nods12:36
VileTimesGrub makes me very angry.12:37
treach"GRUB GRUB" :p12:38
treachgrub eats your computer :>12:38
tilmancross your fingers12:39
tilmanrebooting for udev update12:39
* ice_cream hopes the rest of ff or fx as they call it, will continue to compile smoothly12:39
VileTimesGrub is for Regrublicans.12:39
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ice_creamand lilo for lilocrats?12:40
ice_creamlilo the peccadillo12:40
thrice`hm, tilman didn't return... ;)12:41
cptnthen again, he didn't leave IRC :-)12:42
treachwell, he's not irc:ing from his desktop, right?12:42
thrice`probably screen on his server12:42
VileTimesOn another subject, how does the Crux live CD compare to something like DamnSmall? Aside from not having X, can it do pretty much anything DSL can?12:44
tilmanthat's correct. don't trust teh irc ;)12:44
RotwangVileTimes: crux doesnt have livecd12:45
treachVileTimes: for starters crux doesn't run on i486.12:45
Rotwangor does it? ;]12:45
VileTimesYou can use the crux install cd to much around on any system, so I guess so, Rotty.12:46
sepenRotwang, look for jaeger live cd12:46
sepenVileTimes, you have more method to try it12:47
tilmanVileTimes: well, the official iso is built for i68612:47
Rotwangsepen: k12:47
sepenucrux-486 is running fine on my old laptop too12:47
sepenas I known some ports are still maintained12:48
treachmmh, dsl doesn't used dietlibc, does it?12:48
cruxbot[core.git]: udev: updated to 125.12:48
treachand Crux can't transform to debian. :p12:48
treachwithout an awful lot of help, at least. :)12:49
cruxbot[opt.git]: firefox-java-plugin: New maintainer. Cleaned up and fixed missing footprint file.12:49
rehabdolldebian.. *brr*12:49
sepenohh! thanks tilman :)12:49
sepentilman, are you maintaining nss, nspr and xulrunner, right? Please, I think something odd is happening with libxul.pc
tilmansepen: yeah, seems we should ship nspr.pc12:54
sepenok, so I can't build mplayerplug-in without it12:55
sepenor at least it seems12:55
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cruxbot[opt.git]: tightvnc: New maintainer. Cleaned up.13:00
VileTimesOk, so DSL works on older machines and can be transmogrified into Debian, but that's about it, right?13:02
cptnwell, not really13:03
cptnCRUX doesn't have a lot of handy utilities on the CD itself13:03
cptnI mean it does, but in form of packages you can install13:03
cptnthere's no irc client, no mail client etc.13:04
VileTimesNo, but as a system rescue CD, it seems to be just as good so far. I've rescued my system from mangled inittabs and lilo.confs more than once (all hail the n00b).13:07
cptnfor that, it's pretty nice13:07
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treachmail and irc is probably not that critical, but lvm2 and parted could be handy :)13:11
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ice_creamprt-get depinst firefox -uf  is not working as i hoped..   i expected it to dl (e.g. nss), then install it, then update its footprint; is that not the case?13:13
ice_cream(actual: tries to update footprint before dling + installing)13:13
cptnit'll just update the footprint of the next package13:13
cptnwhy would you ask prt-get to update the footprint in advance?13:15
cptnbefore you know that it will need an update?13:15
ice_creamhow do i automate this process w/o it crashing on footprint then?13:15
ice_creami didn't think it would hurt to update footprint anyway13:16
cptnwell, then you can just ignore them...13:16
cptnif you don't care about missmatches anyway13:17
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ice_creamdoes footprint mismatch occur often?13:20
cptnyou planned to just update them13:20
cptnwithout ever seeing a missmatch?13:21
ice_creamatm it's going through  prt-get depinst firefox  (i manually updated nss footprint)13:21
ice_creambut, lets see, there's glitz, cairo, pango, gtk, and xulruner to go13:22
ice_creamrunner*  (and their dependencies)13:22
ice_creamas i understood it, updating footprint even if it didn't need update would not hurt in this case13:23
ice_creamand i attempted to avoid manually updated each package with the -uf switch13:23
cptnwell, the missmatch includes information13:23
cptnif you don't want that information, you can ignore footprints altogether13:24
ice_creamah, but then everything will keep old footprint13:24
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cptndoes that matter to you?13:25
dlllsanybody here with fluxbox?13:25
VileTimesI've got a machine running flux, yes.13:26
ice_creammy fav. wm13:26
dlllsso I have numlock enabled on boot, but after I type "startx" - numlock is disabled13:27
dlllsso when X is runnung I don't have numlock keys13:27
dlllsI tried to build and install numlockx13:28
cptncould it be that the functionality works, but not the LED?13:28
dlllsif I type the keys I can't write13:29
dlllsIf I try to build numlockx, it comes the following: "Can't find X includes"13:30
VileTimesMy guess is it has something to do with your X keyboard layout.13:30
VileTimesI'd check out XKB to start.13:31
dlllsot something in xorg.conf disable it..13:31
ice_creammaybe have it run numlockx again in ~/.fluxbox/startup  (right before exec fluxbox) ?13:31
dllls:) I can't compile numlockx13:32
ice_creamright. =P13:32
dllls"Can't find X includes"13:32
VileTimesYou could see what output xev gives you.13:32
dlllsI found some .h files in /usr/local/X1113:33
dlllsmaybe have to add this to PATH13:33
cptni you have a /usr/local/X11, you're not running crux13:34
dlllsbut I forgot the comand, can you tell me13:34
cptnor you manually messed with it13:34
sependllls, pkginfo -o /usr/local/X1113:34
sepenit returns the package containing that13:34
dlllsI am with crux13:35
dlllsafter that comman i receive: "pkginfo: no owner(s) found"13:35
sepenso you installled those files manually13:36
tilmanif you didn't install it consciously, you should probably nuke it :P13:36
dlllsI installed everything with prt-get13:36
cptnbut prt-get calls pkgadd13:37
cptnwhich tracks files in a database13:37 can add this directory to PATH? export PATH=........what was?13:37
cptnand pkginfo says that /usr/local/X11 is not in that database13:37
cptnso that directory ended up there without intervention from prt-get13:38
dlllsI understand, but I want to add it manually13:39
cptnto the package database?13:40
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dlllsno, to PATH!13:40
cptnyou're aware that PATH has nothing to do with include files, right?13:40
dlllsbut I think, if I try to compile something ./configure checks for header in PATH, or I am wrong?13:41
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cptnyou're wrong13:41
sepenso you need /etc/
cptnit checks the include path13:41
sepenas appeared in the past13:42 is link time13:42
cptnthat's later in the compile process13:42
dlllsso now problem with building numlockx.....damn....I'll keep asking google13:43
cptndllls: --x-includes=/usr --x-libraries=/usr13:46
ice_creamcptn, in such a situation, shouldn't you be trying to create a crux package first (a la section 4.4)13:46
cptnyou'll have to add that to the configure line to make i compile13:46
cptnice_cream: there is a crux package already13:46
cptnand that exposes that problem dllls mentions13:47
dlllsyou are the man -> thank you very much :)13:47
ice_creamhmm, i see nothing in contrib, opt, core, xorg13:48
cptnice_cream: it's in a personal repo13:48
dlllscptn: thank you again. I've just compiled it!13:53
cptnno problem :-)13:53
ice_creamdoes it work? =)13:53
cptnjust remember, CRUX doesn't install to /usr/local13:53
cptnso if there's anything worth noting there, that's typically a bad sign13:54
VileTimesI think I was extremely helpful considering how many times I actually use the numlock key. :)13:55
ice_creamwhat does it take for something personal to make it to contrib?13:58
cptnice_cream: you have to apply as a maintainer13:58
teKbeing able to read the wiki13:58
teKsht cptn, you make the game boring13:58
dlllsafter building numlockx - it works, I have it now! :)13:59
cptnheh, if that's the case, I'll just lean back and enjoy the show :-)13:59
teKwell. go read the great wiki13:59
ice_creamok, Tom =)14:00
teKwell done *g*14:03
ice_creami try, i really do... even if i don't come across as trying14:04
Ammon0What could cause: "/etc/rc: line 20: /sbin/fsck: Permission denied"14:05
Ammon0when first booting from the hardrive?14:05
ice_creama poisonous foo spider14:06
Ammon0so it could be just about anything?14:10
teK /sbin is no separate partition? ls -l /sbin/fsck looks ok?14:11
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* sepen bbl14:15
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Ammon0TeK, when I boot from the cd it looks ok14:33
cptnAmmon0: is this the only error message you get?14:34
Ammon0Every line after that is denied permission14:35
Ammon0im not sure about before14:35
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cptnAmmon0: anything special on that system?14:37
cptnare you using lvm, or raid?14:37
cptnon your root partition that is14:37
cptnalso, have you already tried booting into single user mode?14:38
Ammon0its a compaq deskpro with configuration utilities  on hda314:39
Ammon0root is in hda114:39
Ammon0and that was in single user mode14:40
Ammon0in runlevel 2 I get permission denied on agetty14:40
RotwangteK: sup?14:41
teKhave you tested freeciv?14:42
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cruxbot[opt.git]: mpeg2dec: removed the umlaut from the maintainer's name14:45
cruxbot[opt.git]: scummvm: removed the umlaut from the maintainer's name14:45
cruxbot[opt.git]: openldap: removed the umlaut from the maintainer's name14:45
RotwangteK: seems ok ;]14:46
Rotwanggo|dfish: hi14:46
go|dfishRotwang: yo.14:46
dlllswhen I try to download some source from I see some IP-s and addreses. In wich script are they?14:48
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dlllsI read the FAQ from and added the lines to hosts....but still have very slow downloading14:49
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Rotwangchange the mirror14:49
dlllsI read the FAQ from and added the lines to /etc/hosts*....but still have very slow downloading14:49
teKRotwang: good.14:49
Rotwang i think /etc/hosts is enough :p14:49
dlllsalready did it...but it seems doesn't work14:50
cptnwell, is the mirror you selected fast from where you are?14:51
dlllssorry my mistake14:52
dlllsdid something wrong14:52
go|dfishI thought firefox3 was supposed to be "better" :/14:53
Rotwangit is14:54
go|dfishHmmm, it still seems like a real slow hog for me.14:54
treachsorry, it doesn't magically upgrade your hardware. :>14:54
go|dfishI have a 2.5 Ghz Core Duo 2 and 4gb of RAM !14:55
go|dfishAnd it still takes about 8 seconds to load up.14:55
* Rotwang sets up account14:55
Rotwangonly for one title ;]14:56
tilmango|dfish: mmh, less than 1s here. on similar hardware14:56
treachwell. it still have to read stuff from disk, and that's not really relevant to "speed".14:56
go|dfishtilman: Hmm, ok, something is severely wrong then. Do you have your CPU scaled at all?14:56
treachjudging things by startup speed is pretty much a fallacy.14:57
tilmango|dfish: i'm using the ondemand governor of course14:57
go|dfishtreach: Ah.14:57
thrice`i use ondemand also (which idles down to about 800mhz), and mine is about 1 second too :(14:58
cruxbot[opt.git]: nspr: resurrected nspr.pc, since xulrunner's pc file refers to it.14:58
go|dfishYou guys using 32-bit?14:59
treachmost here, yes.14:59
treachthere is no official 64 bit version yet.14:59
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go|dfishWell, even if it's a fallacy, I just tested there from a fresh boot, just X and a WM started, it takes 7 seconds to startup firefox.15:05
aongo|dfish: i think the answer to this is that while the firefox developers make firefox faster, they also make everything else in the universe faster15:06
aonso that even if say 0.7 felt faster than 3.0, it's just because everything else was considerably slower then than now15:06
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go|dfishBut now that you guys said it's 1 second for you on similar hardware, this is now going to severely bug me.15:06
go|dfishaon: Ah, very true15:07
aonand the universe obviously accelerates faster than firefox since it's becoming slower and slower15:07
aonalthough it's infact faster than it used to be15:07
aonimo the changelogs should mention this15:07
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Rotwangi just signed for and already hate it ;]15:08
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go|dfishtreach, tilman, if either of you don't mind, would it be possible for me to take a look at your kernel .configs ? i wonder if i have borked something up.15:09
treachgo|dfish: the point is, first of all start up speed doesn't relate at all to wether the application is fast. It's possible to write an application that starts really fast, and is dog slow to use. As is the revers thing.15:09
go|dfishtreach: Ah yeah.15:09
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treachalso, note that the first time you start the application after a boot, you don't have anything in the diskcache, etc.15:09
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treachsubsequent starts should be much much faster15:10
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treachsince the first start of the application at least to some extent is limited by diskread speed.15:10
treachso, a first time start up would be much faster if you have some raid configuration, than if you have everything on a single disk.15:11
go|dfishYep, subsequent startups are instant. Ah, didn't know that about RAID, thanks.15:13
go|dfishSomething does seem to be up though, I'm not sure exaclty, maybe it's not firefox, but I do notice it when I am using firefox, it even makes switching workspaces in my window manager lag.15:14
go|dfishtilman: Thanks alot.15:14
rehabdollfirefox3 is a pig15:21
rehabdolltry visiting firefox3 somehow manages to freeze everything for a split second15:23
rehabdollalso, scrolling _kills_ my system15:23
dlllsdoes anybody know some lightweight web browser for linux?15:23
thrice`I don't get any of this =|15:23
go|dfishi have similar behaviour to rehabdoll15:24
go|dfishdllls: dillo!15:24
rehabdollits interesting how i could scroll websites just fine in -98...15:24
thrice`I use binary firefox, though, but I doubt that does it15:24
Rotwangdllls: elinks15:24
Rotwangor arora ;]15:24
dlllsok...let's take a look!15:25
VileTimesHey, who wants to storm the Gentoo channel and challenge them to a basketball game?15:25
treachme hints at midori as a project to keep an eye on for future reference.15:26
RotwangI dont fscking understand this whole idea15:27
Rotwangit pisses me off15:27
go|dfishRotwang: It's to show off to other people about how cool your taste in music is.15:27
Rotwangid like to listen one fscking song15:27
Rotwanggo|dfish: but thats the only place where i found a song im looking for :{15:28
go|dfishI actually used it yesterday, I found a band which I liked, so i looked at their page to look at "similar artists" which found me another good band!15:28
go|dfishRotwang: ah :)15:28
VileTimesHmmm ... I wonder what sort of discussion folks generally have in the #vim channel... :D15:32
go|dfishThey don't, generally.15:32
VileTimesNow there's irony: an #iphone channel. What, can't they simply call one another?15:34
cptnI'd expect that most questions come from newbies that can't quit vim15:35
cptni.e. "how do I get out?"15:35
thrice`"emacs used to do it for me! :( "15:36
teKno. ctrl+c gives you: Type  :quit<Enter>  to exit Vim15:36
surroundernever knew that15:38
treachbut.. I wrote  ":quit<Enter>" and all it says is some complaint about trailing characters!! :(15:38
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teKtreach: hahaha15:40
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teKit's called idiot's barrier *g*15:40
Rotwangqt3 happens to break is sql flag is set15:41
Rotwangor is it only me?15:41
Rotwangif is*15:41
treach"its" ?15:41
VileTimes... and so you know, there are twice as many users in #gentoo-bugs than there are here. High-fives all around!15:41
treachwho would have guessed. :>15:42
RotwangVileTimes: sooo?15:42
treachRotwang: it validates what we said before, doesn't it? ;)15:42
VileTimesI'm just pointing out easily verifiable facts, Rotwang.15:43
* Rotwang doesn't get VileTimes15:43
go|dfishdown with gentoo bashing!15:43
treachnow, pointing out that there is a lot of people in gentoo-bugs is gentoo bashing. :>15:44
Rotwangheh ;}15:45
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treach"De mortuis nil nisi bonum", gentoo must be dead. :>15:46
Rotwangsome techno fans around?15:51
Rotwangim strugling with >:|15:52
treachand a metal fan can't help?15:52
treachnot that I use, but it seems like a strange limitation. :p15:53
VileTimesHave you heard Torche yet, treach?15:53
Rotwangim looking for particular track: survival - forget tomorrow15:53
treachVileTimes: I'm not really into music really.15:53
VileTimesWorth looking into if you enjoy "stoner rock".15:53
treachI used to listen to all kinds of stuff in the past, but I've gotten old it seems. :>15:54
efleming969Rotwang: i'm a techno fan, but i don't know anything about the genre15:54
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Rotwangefleming969: so you maybe happens to have urvival - forget tomorrow, somewhere? ;]15:55
Rotwangim really desperate to find it :p15:55
VileTimesI'm "very picky" as well, treach. I don't waste time with bands who aren't doing anything new.15:55
treachheh, I have almost completely dropped that "new" stuff.15:56
efleming969Rotwang: no, sorry15:57
treachI just listen to relax, and then I prefer the old garde. :)15:57
Rotwangefleming969: k15:57
treachNP: Bach-Suite_No3_in_D_Major-Air15:59
VileTimesDifferent strokes for different folks, I guess. I grow bored a little too easily with styles and genres, so I'm always on the lookout for something out of the ordinary. Torche is my latest find.15:59
* surrounder is listening to VNV Nation - Saviour (Vox)16:00
surroundersomething different compared to my powermetal-mood last week :D16:00
treachI used to listen to stuff like Metallica, Kreator, Accept, Iron Maiden, etc. But that generally just bores me nowadays.16:00
treachbut I'm not saying anything is superior to anything else.16:01
rehabdolltreach: midori feels sweet16:01
rehabdollthanks for the tip :)16:01
surroundertreach: Chuck Norris > *16:01
surrounderhmm midori, wanted to try that16:02
treachI just hope it continues to go forward. still no javascript, or cookie handling iirc.16:02
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treachsurrounder: Bach pwns chuck norris. :>16:02
surrounderthe whole universe combined doesn't even pwn Chuck treach...16:03
treachor so you say.16:03
surrounderwe should be glad he lets us all live :P16:03
teKyes, J.H. Bach rocks.
VileTimesThen why did Chuck hang out with a slob like Huckabee? Bach would surely have had better taste in politicians if nothing else.16:04
treachNP: Bach-Cantat_No147-Jesus_Bleibt_Meine_Freunde16:04
treachsuck on that, chuckie.16:05
surrounderVileTimes: to make everyone think he DOESN'T control the US of course!16:05
surrounderor well...the sol system for that matter16:05
treachVileTimes: As you can see above. :p16:05
VileTimesYeah, right. To think Chuckie's boy Huck was publicly humiliated by ol' man McCain. Sad.16:06
VileTimesHuck is a "C" short of Chuck.16:06
VileTimes... and Bach happens to own the key of C.16:07
treachmh.. most things in this playlist seems to be in D though.. :/16:08
VileTimesSilence, metal fan!16:08
surrounderVileTimes: kiss my ring unworthy piece of human! :P16:09
surrounder*sips some tea*16:10
treachsurrounder: wrong answer, I think the correct phrase is "Bite my shiney metal ass" or something. :p16:11
VileTimesOh, so that's the "ring" you were refering to. *blech* ... no thanks, weirdo.16:12
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cruxbot[opt.git]: mplayerplug-in: Updated 3.50 -> 3.55 (Thanks to Predrag Ivanovic's patch). Fixed FS#323.16:22
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Rotwangsome english native speakers here? ;]16:40
Rotwangim fscking desperate to find name of this track :p16:40
treachspit it out, maybe someone knows, native or not.16:41
Rotwangwhat the dj is saying about current track?16:41
Rotwangnot the previous one16:41
rehabdollyou dont know a native speaker.. you need a fucking dog or something16:42
rehabdollor some expensive sound equipment16:42
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Rotwangonly word im able to understand is "mutation" ;]16:44
thomas123Crux is interesting to say the least16:44
treachBox, or Docks ... all burn, or something..16:44
treachmaybe even .docs ;)16:45
treachbut you'd probably need a pom to decode that crap16:45
Ammon0sounds like he said he wrote it himself (in school?) with a guy named dom buliard16:46
treachwell, there is a voice in the background, presumeably from the tune? that says something about "will all burn" if I'm not completely off.16:47
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treachto me it sounds like he says "Box to all burn" but that's nosense. :>16:48
go|dfishthomas123: it is indeed.16:49
thomas123It seems similar to Arch, but not, in a lot of ways16:49
treachcrux and arch share some history, so that's not strange.16:50
treachAnd Crux is older than Arch.16:50
treachJudd was a crux user initially16:50
thomas123what history do they share?16:50
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thomas123So they borrowed a system similar to BSDs ports..16:51
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thomas123very interesting16:51
treachI'm not sure what per thought of when he started crux, but it seems to draw a lot of things from the bsd world.16:51
thomas123I've noticed16:52
thomas123So, in your opinion, whats harder to set up?16:52
thomas123arch or Crux?16:52
treachnever used arch, so I have no opinion on that TBH16:52
go|dfishI wouldn't say one is 'harder' than the other.16:52
go|dfishIf you can read, you can install both.16:53
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Rotwangwatch the world burn - liquidedge mutation \o/16:53
go|dfishLike every other distro.16:53
thomas123Just takes time16:53
treacharch is binary though, so it would probably be "faster" to set up.16:53
Rotwangtreach: thanks for help16:53
treachRotwang: you found it?16:53
thomas123I should port RPM or dpkg just for the heck of it :D16:53
treachrpm is already ported..16:54
thomas123it is?16:54
thomas123What type of Desktop Environments are available for Crux?16:54
Rotwangpacman and abs too ;p16:54
treachit's just not used for package management.16:54
VileTimesAll, as far as I know, thomas.16:54
Rotwangthomas123: gnome kde xfce ;]16:54
treachthomas123: anything you want, provided that you build it yourself. :>16:54
thomas123of course16:54
thomas123I cant imagine compiling KDE from source :D16:55
go|dfishI was shocked not to find a port for mp3blaster!16:55
surroundernot that bad, just to do it at night thomas12316:55
thomas123lol ya16:55
surrounderwhy wait for compiles16:55
treachmost crux users use window managers of different kinds, but there are ports for kde/gnome/xfce if you really want it.16:55
thomas123I like openbox, but no preference16:56
VileTimesIt depends upon how you view desktops, I guess. Openbox suits me fine.16:56
treachbut building kde isn't *that* bad.16:56
surrounderopenbox is nice, tiling wm's are nice16:56
treachit takes a few houers on a decent box.16:56
surrounderlots of choice16:56
thomas123Its better then installing Gentoo, arch, and slaxckware in one day, while compiling a kernel on another machine16:56
thomas123long story16:56
treachsurrounder: no, no, choice is bad. if linux are to succed on the desktop it has to standardise on the most stupid interface available! </end_analytic_mode>16:57
surrounderchoices are for hippies!16:58
surrounderin TWM we trust!16:58
VileTimesubuntu is for re-grub-licans.16:58
thomas123I can say one thing, making arch into an easy to use distro takes time16:58
surroundertreach: same with crux prolly16:59
surrounderwhu ?16:59
thomas123I'm basing a distro off of it, me with a few others16:59
treachwell, if "ease of use" is what you're after, crux is probably the wrong place to look..17:00
thomas123I know17:00
thomas123Thats not what Im thinking or looking for17:00
thrice`depends :)17:00
treachbut then again, the exact meaning of "ease of use" is always depending on POV.17:00
thomas123I'm building a distro for people new to computers, off of arch ;)17:00
thomas123thats a job17:01
surrounderor give em a zenwelk cd instead17:01
* treach likes his vim-style usability.17:02
VileTimesI think you should include a tutorial on the many advantages of getting Xmodmap to play nicely with your chosen windows manager.17:02
VileTimesEveryone loves obsessing over media keys.17:02
treachVileTimes: you are welcome to submit one. :)17:03
surrounderthere aren't any on my model m :P17:03
surroundernot even a mod4 o//17:03
treachI don't have any either. :D17:03
treachheck, I don't even have the numeric keys. :D17:03
thomas123I should try going command line only for a week, I could probably do it..lol17:04
surroundermy deskop == a lot of terminals17:04
surrounderand firefox on another virtual desktop17:04
treachsurrounder: sounds like a good candidate for rp or dwm. :)17:04
surrounderI like xmonad :P17:05
surrounderrunning fluxbox atm though17:05
surrounderhave some nice ideas with it17:05
treachI thought you were some hotshot in fvwm? ;)17:05
surrounderor openbox for that matter17:05
Rotwangawesome ftw17:05
VileTimesThere's a great tut for Gentoo. Just google "howto use multimedia keys gentoo". I learned quite a bit today, thanks to the earlier numlock question.17:05
surroundernot really, used it for a quite a long time though treach :P17:05
surroundertreach: and I'm still in the channel because the people are nice :P17:05
treachok. :)17:06
VileTimesI now have Windows keys and PrtSc keys launching all sorts of useless garbage. :)17:06
thomas123I hate broadcom...17:06
* treach has ob, a few terminals and pidgin running in a systray.17:07
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VileTimesIncredible. My DSL connection keeps crapping out every time someone calls. I blame the PuppyLinux channel. >:(17:26
Rotwangi have disabled stationary phone17:27
Rotwanguse cell only17:27
treachunfortunately not all telcos let you do that17:27
Rotwangbut my dsl connection is still crapy17:27
VileTimesSorry, I hate cellphones.17:28
VileTimesYes, more than landlines.17:28
treachie, our old monopoly company here doesn't let you sign up for a DSL account, unless you have a landline phone.17:28
VileTimesSame here, treach.17:29
treachnot very surprising. :>17:29
treachthey just love gouging (is that right?) people.17:29
VileTimesThe only way out is to order DSL on a dry loop.17:29
treachdry loop?17:30
treachenglish isn't my native language, that makes no sense at all.. :/17:30
VileTimesYeah, it uses the phone line but kills the dial tone. This means you need to use a VOIP service.17:30
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VileTimesThe problem is, if there's a power outage, you're cut off - period.17:31
treachwell, so are you if you only have a wireless phone too.17:32
VileTimesNot with a cellphone, and not with a regular landline - at least not here in North America.17:32
treachno, not with a regular old phone on landline.17:33
treachthey are supposed to be on batteries at the station or so I think.17:33
treachbut if you like a lot of people I know have tossed all regular phones and gone wireless instead it's no different.17:34
treachand I have a cell phone, so I'm not worried. :)17:34
treachbesides, I don't think we've ever had a blackout longer than an hour or so here.17:34
VileTimesNo, like I said earlier, I hate cellphones. There are far too many ways to contact me (IRC, email, landline, MSN et al.) I don't need to pay for yet another one.17:35
treachI think I prefer the cell. It's generally cheaper for me, and I don't have to be home to use it.17:37
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VileTimesIt isn't very cheap over here especially when one considers that I need to pay for a landline to use DSL anyhow.17:37
treachyeah. that's the catch.17:38
VileTimesI could go Dry Loop, but I would have to buy a whole ton of hardware to get the same reliable service as a landline.17:38
treachI don't need a landline, since I'm hooked rigth on one of our major isps fibre network.17:38
treachbohoo to the old monopoly. :)17:39
VileTimesI heard the monthly cost for an iphone plan in the US is $25/month - unlimited download. Can anyone confirm this?17:40
Rotwangwe're europeans mostly ;]17:40
treachat&t could, I guess. Most of us wouln't know17:41
treachdamn I should go to sleep17:41
VileTimesI certainly don't, which is why I ask. ;)17:41
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VileTimesGet some rest, Europeans.17:43
treachmmh, the most expensive plan for the iphone here gives you 1000 min voice, 1000 sms and 1000MB data free.17:44
treachand costs almost $150/month.17:45
treachI pay like 11.50 for my phone and have free calls to everyone with the same operator. (Which happen to be almost everyone I know. :) )17:46
Rotwang   hehe17:46
VileTimesI long for the day when you can just buy a phone that runs Linux and uses TCP/IP to communicate with other phones.17:46
treachRotwang: that's not fun.17:47
treachit's damn sad.17:47
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efleming969anyone using ReloadingWicketFilter for dynamically loading changes?18:30
efleming969disregard that :s18:32
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