IRC Logs for #crux Friday, 2008-08-22

Romsterdon't suppose it's anything like this http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/931344.html00:00
Romsterah single user makes it more fun...00:00
jaegerwell, actually, to be clear, single user isn't too hard as well, but the part where it gets hard (or not doable) is when you want it to do that AND deliver locally to that user anyway00:02
jaegerso mail ends up delivered on both servers00:02
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Romsterhm00:04
Romsterhas to be CC-ed.00:05
jaegerpretty sure something like "user@domain smtp:newhost" or "user@domain smtp:[ipaddress:port]" will work but it only gets me halfway there00:05
jaegerI might just forward all mail temporarily to test, it's not like I can't easily transport it back00:06
Romstermight be one you wanna throw on the postfix ML.00:13
jaegerI'm pretty sure it can't be done that way now... searched for quite a long time00:13
Romsterit might be a good feature request though00:14
jaegerperhaps so00:15
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jaegerwell, it can wait until tomorrow, time to sleep. take care00:21
Romsterk00:31
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nipuLjaeger: i think i can help you00:50
Romsterhe is asleep now.00:50
Romsterso it'l have it be later.00:50
nipuLhopefully he reads his highlights00:51
nipuLjaeger: try... user@local.com user,user@other.com00:54
* nipuL to lazy to /msg00:56
Romsterheh00:58
nipuLor to spell too correctly00:58
nipuLi learned something new this week00:59
nipuLdon't use CNAMES your virtual domains00:59
Romsteroh01:00
nipuLtook me a while to figure out why I was randomly getting my clients email01:00
Romsterlol..01:00
Romsterrandomly...01:00
nipuLyeah, depends on the mail server01:00
nipuLsome will rewrite the envelope if the domain is an alias01:01
nipuLso i guess it's not technically random, but really, what's the difference between apparent and actual randomness01:02
nipuLit worked for debian01:02
Romsterlol.01:10
Romsteroh yes this code looks funny lets remove it. :P01:10
nipuLyay, it still compiles, let's release it immediately01:15
Romsterya01:21
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mike_kRomster: one more cxx headers fix http://pastebin.com/me85753402:28
Romster haven't even tested any of my ports on gcc-4.3.1 yet.02:29
mike_kthen just keep it somewhere for now02:30
mike_kRomster: aren't you using CRUX x86-64 of some kind?02:31
Romsterno i'm using a hybrid of crux and hvlinux what i've been doing and predatorfreak.02:31
Romsteri'm still on x8602:32
Romsteri will go multilib when i get to x86_64 though.02:32
mike_kI see02:34
Romsteri'll fix this one though.02:42
mike_kthanks02:43
Romsteryeah been keep to myself and doing other stuff, like helping out in winehq02:47
cruxbot[contrib.git]: libsndfile: fix for gcc43 (thanks mike_k)02:52
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sepen_Oops03:48
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sepennow, so i should read the backlog03:49
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jshm. My HAL does't use udev anymore after updating. I already linked the hald rule file from /etc/udev/rules.d to /lib/udev/rules.d, didn't help at all06:44
nogagplzjs: 'scuse me for sounding a bit strange, but could you outline what apparent affects it has on inserting media, if any?06:46
jshal-device-manager doesn't list anything besides the CPU and the ACPI power button06:48
jsso nothing happens when inserting media06:48
jsor using nautilus-cd-burner, it won't even show a DVD burner06:48
nogagplzOkay I've run into the same problem, and have no idea how to fix it >>06:49
jsgoogling that issue is harder than thought, I only find non-sense results when googling for +hal +not +using +udev or the like06:49
jshm, so it's at least not only me :)06:49
jsI have this for a while already06:49
jsbut got very very annoyed by it now and tryed to fix it06:49
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jsmaybe I should downgrade hal06:50
jsit seems new packages are not tested with gnome anymore and often break stuff (see shared-mime-info for example)06:50
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nogagplzTried, did nothing :)06:50
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js(ok, this isn't gnome, but it seems stuff is just updated and never tested againt other packages, which is why I'm considering a new distro atm)06:50
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nogagplzseems it really screws something up good06:51
jsyeah, and this isn't the first time06:51
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jsevery time i do prt-get sysup, it screws something up06:51
jscrux' quality really sunk :(06:51
jssecurity issues are ignored06:51
jspackages updated but not tested, etc06:51
rehabdollsecurity issues?06:51
jsyes06:51
rehabdolllike what?06:52
jspoppler, python, xine-lib06:52
jsfor example06:52
jsi contacted the maintainer for poppler with a patch but just was ignored06:52
jsah, same for opera06:52
jsalso vulnerable06:52
jsupdated these all manually06:52
rehabdollis 0.8.6 vulnerable?06:53
rehabdollpoppler, that is06:53
jsoh, it was updated finally? my mail was ignored...06:53
* js removes the port from his overlay and tries06:54
jsrehabdoll: 0.8.6 is ok06:55
jsbut the maintainer could have at least answered when applying it -.-06:55
jsI didn't check again since I thought being ignored means he won't do anything06:55
rehabdoll0.8.6 was pushed 19/806:56
jsah, so this is pretty recent06:56
jsit was a month ago or so i contacted the mnt06:56
rehabdollwell considering "poppler-0.8.6.tar.gz, released on August 20, 2008"06:56
rehabdollnipul is the poppler-maintainer, ask him what happened06:58
jswell, it was at 0.8.4 for a long time06:59
jswhich is vulnerable06:59
jsand I sent the mnt 0.8.506:59
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thrice`js: opera was updated yesterday, and python was patched weeks ago07:14
jsthrice`: I know that python was patched, the mnt replied to my mail07:14
jsopera - didn't know ;)07:15
jsstill, my hal problem…07:15
thrice`then join the mailing list, and you will see :)07:15
jsand the shared-mime-info problem…07:15
thrice`I built shared-mime-info fine last night07:15
jsyeah, it dosen't work with gnome, though07:15
jsbut what's more annoying is that hal doesn't work with udev if you have latest hal and udev port07:16
jshal-device-manager ownly shows both CPU cores and the ACPI Power Button07:16
thrice`what do you mean "only shows?"  sorry, I don't use hal07:16
jshal doesn't find any device besides CPU and ACPI power button07:17
jsmeaning it doesn't use udev07:17
js→ no auto mount07:17
js→ no CD drive in all gnome apps07:17
thrice`does downgrading hal fix it?07:17
js→ no devices in computer in gnome07:18
jsI will try that now07:18
jsbut it's for some time already07:18
jsso I dunno which version's fault it is07:18
thrice`not sure.  udev seems to be working very well here, so perhaps it is hal's fault07:19
jsMaybe it has to do with that it's not /etc/udev but /lib/udev now?07:19
jsbut I already linked those files from hal from /etc/udev to /lib/udev07:19
thrice`and you merged the new udev configs over?07:20
jsyes07:20
js/etc/udev was mostly empty07:21
jsand I symlinked those files from there to /lib/udev07:21
thrice`it looks like hal still puts things in /usr/etc/udev07:22
jsthat device doesn't even exist07:22
jserm, path07:22
thrice`and /etc/udev/rules.d/ ; I wonder if that's why07:23
jsI already said: I linked /etc/udev/rules.d/* to /lib/udev/rules.d07:23
thrice`sorry, not /usr/etc/, just /etc/udev/07:23
thrice`have you restarted both dbus and hal since you linked it ?07:24
jshald 0.4.0 doesn't build anymore07:24
jsthrice`: I even rebooted07:24
jsso I can be sure that udev is restarted07:25
jsand loads the new udev rules07:25
rehabdollhttp://img172.imageshack.us/img172/9407/1218982145468ez3.jpg07:29
go|dfishhaha.07:30
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spaceninjaWohO! Gnome is up and running! Thank you guys for a great job! :D07:44
thrice`:)07:54
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jsit's so annoying not being able to use ANY gnome application that wants a CD-ROM drive08:33
nogagplzmeh, you get used to it after a while js08:34
thrice`perhaps someone who uses gnome will chime in and help out :)  I don't have hal installed, nor gnome, so I'm not sure I can help anymore :(  soryr08:34
jsnogagplz: I never will because I can't use souncejuicer08:34
js*soundjuicer08:35
jsnor do I get used to using growisofs for burning just a few files…08:35
* js thinks about changing distro08:35
thrice`go for it08:35
jsany suggestions?08:36
jsI want something like CRUX like it was in the old days08:36
cptnyou mean with kernel 2.4 and gnome 1?08:37
jsno, a working sounds distribution with KISS08:37
js*source08:37
jsargs08:37
jsthat does not commit packages without testing all the time…08:38
thrice`instead of bitching, why don't you fix it and ask the gnome maintainer to check it out?08:38
jsit happens nearly never that broken packages were comitted when pli was still here08:38
jsthrice`: because hal is not gnome?08:39
cptnwell, considering that no one else hit that particular problem it still feels the same for the rest of us08:39
jsno, cptn, others hit the bug also08:39
jsfor example nogagplz08:39
jscptn: and same for shared-mime-info08:40
nogagplzYes, I've got the same thing in KDE >>08:40
jsthat bug is already hit by many others08:40
jsbut does anyone of the CRUX team care? no.08:40
jsCRUX is dead since pli's gone. sad, but true.08:40
cptnis it in flyspray?08:40
thrice`then commit a bug.  coming to IRC is not a great place for visibilityi08:40
jsthrice`: well, for example for shared-mime-info, I contacted the mnt08:40
cptnwell, can't find a bug report for either of the two problems08:41
jsreply was "i don't care, fuck off"08:41
thrice`yes, i'm sure tilman told you to "fuck off"08:41
cptnyeah, sounds a lot like him08:41
jsyup, was tilman08:41
cptnI with the users would be as in the old days08:41
cptn*wish08:41
jsso I never created a ticket08:41
js"I don't care if I break gnome" attitude means is no use to create a ticket08:42
jshm, downgrading hald doesn't help08:45
jsan udev issue maybe?08:45
thrice`doubtful.  did you compile gnome against hal ?08:45
jshow many times do I have to say it's not a gnome issue?08:46
jshal-device shows exactly the same08:46
jshal-device-managers is just a gnome tool that displays it a bit nicer08:46
jsI can even query hal directly via dbus if that satisfies you08:47
thrice`ok, ok.  sorry, i'm not familiar with gnome.  it sounds like it's a hal + udev issue, and looking from the footprints, probably due to the new rules directory ?08:47
jsI already manually changed these08:48
jsdidn't help08:48
jsand yes, I even rebooted to be very sure that udev is restarted08:48
jsis there some VCS where I can get older versions of udev?08:50
teKsmth. like http://crux.nu/gitweb ?08:51
jsyes, thanks :)08:52
teKnop08:52
jsoh, udev is done by tilman?08:52
jsso he likes breaking ports :P08:52
thrice`i'd grab the the udev commit before rules were moved to /lib, downgrade to that, rebuild dbus and hal and try again :)08:53
jsdbus won't be affected at all by this ;)08:53
thrice`oh, i thought hal linked directly with it08:53
jsyes, it links it, but it's not the problem here08:54
jsas dbus communication with hal works08:54
jsi get the 2 cores and the ACPI button returned08:54
jsbrb, reboot08:55
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spaceninjagnome apps can't use the cdrom?08:59
thrice`spaceninja: does auto-mounting work for you in gnome?09:00
jsyup, downgrading udev works09:00
jsso yet another port broken by tilman :P09:00
spaceninjaNo hal doesn't seem to work09:00
jsthrice`: see? :P09:00
thrice`i don't think it's a udev issue, but something with hal09:00
jsspaceninja: downgrade udev to 11809:00
jsthen it works09:00
jsnogagplz: downgrade udev to 118, and it works again09:01
spaceninjawill sound juicer work after that also?09:01
spaceninjaI mean09:01
jsyes09:01
jsit will09:01
jseverythign will work again09:01
spaceninjaok09:01
jsjust downgrade udev to 118 and shared-mime-info to 0.3009:01
jsthen gnome works perfectly09:01
spaceninjahow do I go about and do that? Download them from the official repos'?09:02
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jsfor shared-mime-info, just edit version and rm .footprint .md5sum09:03
nogagplzokay sure. just after this fallout 2 addiction wears off >>09:03
jsfor udev, get the old one from git09:03
spaceninjaok great09:03
teKjs: please file bugs at http://crux.nu/bugs that these issue can be looked at09:14
tilmani literally said "fuck off"?09:15
tilmandoesn't sound like me09:15
thrice`:)09:15
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tilmanactually, reading shit like " Oh, how unexpected! Yet more vulnerable packages in CRUX that nobody[...]" makes me think that i really should tell you to fuck off09:18
tilmanjs: how about filing bug reports for those vulernable ports? huh?09:18
cptntilman: I guess complaining is just more fun about it than writing bug reports09:22
spaceninjathere should have to be any registration,09:24
spaceninjan't09:25
cptnso you expect that developers invest time to fix your issue, but don't even want to take the 5 minutes to register?09:25
spaceninjano, I feel like being anonymous09:26
spaceninjabut I guess it's not a big deal, just the emal09:26
treachtechically, if a port breaks another port that is only available in a third party repo - like gnome - is that really a problem for the maintainer?09:28
treachI'd say that's the third party repo maintainers headache09:28
cptnagreed09:28
tilmanin this case: yes09:28
cptnunless there's a solution outlined which easily addresses the issue09:28
tilmanand since js showed no effort to figure what's wrong himself i'm not really motivated to do all the work ;p09:29
treachshut up. we're entitled to you busting your ass for our sake. ;)09:30
jstilman: I contacted the mnts personally09:36
js(about the vulns)09:36
jsI didn't create a bug because you said you don't care about shared-mime-info09:36
cptnokay, from now on please submit bugs to flyspray09:36
cptnthis will allow others to comment too09:36
cptnand in case of vulnerabilities, other maintainers can help fix them09:37
jsok09:37
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jsI just thought the fastest way would be to contact the mnt directly09:37
jsmost projects encourage contacting the mnt directly for that09:37
cptnthe mounts?09:37
jswill create a bug report next time then09:37
jscptn: mnt = maintainer09:37
js:)09:37
cptnwe did so earlier too09:38
tilmanjs: filing a bug means maybe other people fix the "bug"09:38
cptnfact is, no maintainer keeps vulnerable ports intentionally09:39
cptnso chances are that if it's not fixed within a couple of days, the e-mail was overlooked09:39
cptnor the maintainer is on holidays :-)09:39
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cruxbot[opt.git]: libpng: updated to 1.2.31.09:42
cptnfinally, keep in mind that the friendlier you are, the more likely people will care for your problems09:42
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jscptn: I try that, but I often get angry when I did prt-get sysup and something just broke it again after finally everything worked ;)09:43
cptnyeah, I can understand that :-)09:43
jssorry 'bout that09:43
thrice`js: maintainers don't just bump numbers and and commit without testing, if that's what you're implying :)  it's often difficult for them, however, to test every scenario09:43
thrice`(especially gnome o.O)09:44
jsthrice`: I know that, I maintain stuff myself, but I got a bit angry about that "I don't use gnome so I don't care"09:44
* tilman just just bumped libpng and pushed without testing09:44
tilmannah, j/k09:44
thrice`well, except for tilman*09:44
thrice`;)09:45
tilman;)09:45
cptnI actually have this script, which bumps a random port, updates the md5sum and commits it09:45
cptnas a random developer!09:45
treachheh, afaik maintainers have no obligation to make sure third party repos plays nice with his ports. :>09:50
thrice`treach: well, hal is broken, reportadly, for gnome and kde.  perhaps it's worth investigating, no?09:50
treachmaybe. depends on why it's broken, and how.09:51
cptnyes, but in such cases, you need to involve the third party maintainer too09:52
treachit could be just as well if the respective projects (kde/gnome) creates their own - hopefully working - ports for hal.09:52
jsthrice`: even without kde or gnome it is09:53
jsthrice`: type hal-devices09:53
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thrice`sorry, not on linux at the moment :)09:54
cptnjs: I think this was regarding shared-mime-info now09:54
cptnah09:55
jscptn: shared-mime-info and udev ;)09:55
rehabdolljs: change to redhat or fedore, they are more secure10:07
rehabdolloh wait, their servers got 0wned10:08
rehabdollnevermind10:08
jsrehabdoll: they are not source10:14
jsthey are not kiss10:14
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tilmanreports of people who can either confirm or reject js' theory would be appreciated btw :D10:38
tilmanstupid wrong channel before10:38
thrice`huh, gentoo's on 125 in their stable repo, wonder how they get around it o.O10:44
Romsteri'm on udev 126 and my hal works.. but i'm not on gnome.10:45
Romsterwhat's the big chat about... trying to make sense of it from my backlog. thanks to a power interruption.10:46
treachthe issue seems to be wether maintainers should break their backs to fix things that causes problems in third party repos - as far as I can make it out.10:48
thrice`well, if hal is in opt and not finding devices properly, I don't think that's at all related to gnome10:49
treachthat's not what I said either.10:49
tilmanall i'm saying is that i don't want to do all of the fn work myself10:49
Romster3rd party repos you use at your own risk.10:50
tilmanbut this isn't about gnome specifically, as thrice` said10:51
Romsteri've tried to debug nogagplz's hal issue but i can't find the issue. and all 3 of my machines work on hal.10:51
thrice`Romster: yours works?  do you have rules in /etc/udev or /lib ?10:51
Romsterand i've tried so much to find it.10:52
Romsterin /lib/10:52
thrice`huh; that was my guess, since hal still goes to /etc/udev10:52
Romsternot on my system.10:52
Romsteri moved that.10:52
Romsterand i actually wonder if i should of moved udev to put everything in /etc/udev again.10:53
Romsterslightly confused if /lib/udev or /etc/udev is the right place for rules.10:54
jswell, when going back to udev 118, everything works again :)10:54
jsI also moved the hal udev rules manually10:54
tilmansounds like hal needs a patch10:54
tilmanyou *could* ask on the hal mailing list10:54
Romsteri've already added a few things to hal.10:54
Romsterhttp://romster.dyndns.org:8080/linux/ports/crux/romster-opt/hal/10:55
Romsterso no idea.10:57
Romsteri've spent hours looking on google and other distros for a fix for nogagplz10:58
nogagplzgoogle was no help when i went looking either >>11:00
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thrice`Romster: does hibernate work for you (looking at your patch to hal) ?11:01
tilmanis hibernate STR or STD?11:02
tilmani *think* it's STD, and iirc it's not supposed to work at all :>11:02
thrice`hm, not sure :)  I'd like STR working11:02
Romsterit's a patch i found in another distro, i added it in with the configure fix. but i haven't tested hibernate yet.11:02
thrice`Romster: can you suspend to ram?11:03
Romstergive it a try i suppose.11:03
tilmanthrice`: str should be possible, but i didn't figure it out on my laptop yet either11:03
Romsteri havent tried.11:03
thrice`indeed :)11:03
Romsteri can give it a try in awhile.11:05
Romsterif you like.11:05
thrice`no, not a big deal.  I was just looking for the best approach, still :)11:05
tilmanthrice`: maybe try gentoo wiki for a howto? :D11:05
thrice`i can get mine to suspend, but it doesn't like waking up11:05
jshal can handle suspend/hibernate?11:07
jshm, would be cool if apps would finally register the dbus event then and handle it properly :)11:07
thrice`i didn't think hal was necessary, but perhaps that's my oversight o.O11:07
spaceninjaI want hal11:09
spaceninjawell I believe that everything that is provided should work, it's all or nothing, not something in between11:10
spaceninjaand that goes for everything in life11:11
tilmanwanna help out?11:11
Romsterjs, i'm pretty sure hal can with that patch11:11
tilmanthrice`: i don't think so either11:12
jshm, then I should see that I implement auto-disconnect on suspend for gajim :)11:12
* js hopes that patch also works on PPC11:12
tilmanthrice`: iirc all you needed was another userspace tool... suspend-tools or something like that.11:12
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thrice`spaceninja: you could try the port Romster just posted, and see if it works with the current udev.  that would probably help out quite a bit :)11:15
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tilmanthrice`: i found a german gentoo power management guide, that mentions a package called "hibernate-script". seems to be used to both S3 and S4. you could try looking for that in portage mirrors11:18
thrice`tilman: hm, looks good; and why search gentoo, when a few cruxer's have it :)11:19
tilmanright, there's also http://ecarux.de/ports/suspend/Pkgfile11:21
tilman:D11:21
spaceninjayes I will help out, but first I'm going to become a millionare and then I will hire people to develope crux! :)11:22
tilmansounds like a plan11:22
spaceninjaIt's going to happen11:23
spaceninjaI just know it11:23
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spaceninjabut until then, do your best, help is on its way!11:28
tilmani think you're 14 or so, i'm not sure you're very trustworthy on this11:29
thrice`tilman: don't hold your breath waiting :)  I have a bad feeling11:29
spaceninjabelieve in it as if it was true and it WILL happen11:31
tilmanare you a televangelist or what they are called? :p11:31
spaceninjano I'm just thinking positive, nothing religous, you should try it, it feels so good! :)11:34
* treach thinks off "ignore".11:35
treachit will happen11:35
treachI just know it. :>11:35
* js wonders if he should give CRUX PPC a try on his powerbook11:36
treachdon't ask us.11:37
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treachI don't think there's a single crux-ppc user here11:37
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jsheh11:37
jsi once used it on the efika11:37
jsbut it was a pita because the kernel was so old :)11:38
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jsand no newer kernel has been ported to efika11:38
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mike_kthat man with |pippici in his nick might be a PPC user =)11:39
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aonthe crux-ppc website doesn't even seem to work11:39
aonoh, it's just really amazingly slow11:40
jscurrently I have ubuntu on my PB11:41
jsbut that install is still from an iBook11:42
jsand doesn't like the touchpad much ;)11:42
Romster3rd power interruption i'm not having a good morning.11:43
aonget an ups11:43
Romsteryeah i think i will11:43
tilmanemigrate from your apparently 3rd world country11:43
tilman;p11:43
aonsry, "a ups"11:44
Romster"a UPS."11:44
Romster:)11:44
Romsterbut i have to get too.11:44
Romstersince my firewall is not near my desktop pc11:44
aonas i said11:44
aonthere's no point in fixing my capitalization as i don't do it online11:45
Romsterhmm k.11:45
aonwell, not in irc at least11:45
Romsterthrice`, this looks interesting http://en.opensuse.org/S2ram11:50
treach"an UPS" :p11:51
Romsterbut but you corrected s/an/a11:51
Romsteri'll never learn english...11:52
treachI'm not aon. ;)11:52
aonit is "a ups"11:53
treach"U" was a vocal, last time I checked..11:53
aon"a ups" results in ~1M hits in google whereas "an ups" results in 6520011:53
aonyeah, but in some cases you put "a" in front of a vowel, too11:54
treachodd. jaeger!? ;D11:54
tilmani believe jaeger will explain how "an" is correct but everyone uses "a" because they don't know better11:55
treachour grammatical overlord, please help us with this important problem! and btw, wb. ;)11:55
tilmani'm with treach anyway ;p11:55
aonhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_and_an#Discrimination_between_a_and_an11:55
aonthat's because you don't know your stuff :)11:55
tilmanlulz, "an 'elmet"11:55
tilman:D11:55
treach"an 'erb" isn't much better. :p11:56
aonif you pronounce ups as "you pee ess", it's "a"11:56
tilman:D11:56
aonbut if it's more like "up" + "s", then it is "an", i guess11:56
aonif i speak finnish i pronounce it like "oops" with a very short "oo"11:57
treachok. I stand corrected. "Further, some words starting with vowels may have a preceding a because they are pronounced as if beginning with an initial consonant."11:58
treachseems like it should be "a".11:58
tilmanyes, wtf.11:58
tilmanwhy didn't my teachers teach this properly?11:59
aonyeah, it's pretty consonanty there11:59
aonperhaps you should migrate from the third world to a country with a proper educational system :)11:59
* tilman hytters med naven11:59
treachaon: at least they know how to make beer ;)11:59
aonhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PISA#Results11:59
tilmani saw that coming11:59
aonwell, i guess you can't get everything :)12:00
tilmani wrote a paper on the german educational situation last year12:00
treachlol12:00
treachthe irony in that is of cosmic proportions. :D12:01
tilmanaon: germany's higher schools (err, a levels?) are doing very fine, it's the other stuff that sucks nuts :>12:01
aon:-)12:01
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Romsterhmm12:12
Romstertreach, maybe you could explain the difference between; semicolon and, comma used in a sentence?12:15
Romsterthat one has always escaped a good explanation.12:15
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treachcomma is genrally used when you're tagging on an incomplete sentence to an complete one. semicolon is used when you're adding another complete sentence that is kind of a conclusion of the first one.12:22
treachor something like that. I feel a bit - more than usual :) - challenged trying to explain grammar in english. :D12:23
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Romsterah13:23
Romsterthen there is that dash or is it a hyphen..13:23
* Romster needs to look up symbols again.13:23
treachsorry, I don't know the different names in english.13:24
Romsteri see comma as a pause in speaking.13:24
treachyes, that's a common way to know when to use it13:24
treachbecause you use comma when you're making some kind of count.13:25
RomsterA hyphen ( - ) is a punctuation mark. It is used for both words to join and to separate syllables. It is often confused with the dashes ( ?, ?, ? ), which are longer and have different functions, and with the minus sign ( ? ) which is also longer. The use of hyphens is called hyphenation.13:26
Romstergawd13:26
treachdamn, I can't really explain it very well in english. but otoh, this is #crux, and not #grammar. :)13:26
treachthe long hyphen, which is like --- is called something like "thought line" in swedish, ie, it something you use when you have made a statement, and want to indicate a moment of thought before presenting a conclusion13:28
Romsterok i was wrong coma is for separating words not a pause... semicolon is a long pause.13:28
Romsterwhy didn't i get taught that at school damn it.13:28
treachyes, but after semicolon you should use a complete sentence, and that's an important difference.13:28
nogagplzlol did you even go to school? :P13:28
* treach gags nogagplz 13:29
Romsteryes i did...13:29
Romster"thought line" hmm.13:29
Romsteri should put some of these --- into perspective.13:30
treachI'm sure it's called something different in english, but the purpose is the same13:30
treachhmmm... http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2008-114213:31
Romsteri wonder how many others even know these minor cliches.13:32
treachI can't make out if that applies to the version in opt.13:32
treachnot very many, I'd think13:32
tilmanummmm13:32
tilmanisn't the fallback to :0 totally common?13:33
Romsterisn't DISPLAY always set when X is running13:33
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treachtilman: I have no idea really, but the people at suse decided to patch it apparently13:34
Romsteralthough i guess anyone could unset it.13:34
thrice`ugh, suse ftl13:34
Romsterhaha13:34
thrice`treach: are you still using suse ?13:34
Romsteri thought that was debians domain13:34
spaceninja1how come I can't see the text on a pdf file, could it be that some font is missing?13:36
tilmantreach: well, it says that rxvt-unicode is vulnerable, too. so that would apply to our port too it seems13:36
spaceninja1I'm using evince13:36
Romsteroh that ~ is a 'swung dash'. I have always called it a tide.13:37
* thrice` is getting a headache, and lives in the US13:38
Romsterspaceninja1, run it from the console and see the output maybe even do strace evince13:38
Romsterthen see if it can't find a font.13:38
treachthrice`: yeah.13:39
thrice`:(13:39
spaceninja1it's working now that I got bitstream-vera13:40
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treachI haven't fixed my laptop yet, it's still running crux. :)13:40
treachor at least, it would, if the power cord was ok. :/13:40
Romsterspaceninja1, k that should be a dependency then.13:40
Romsteror the default font in that program changed.13:40
thrice`treach: you like suse that much?13:41
treachnot really. but I like kde. :)13:41
treachand running kde/gnome on a source based distro is... not that great, imo.13:42
treachI suppose it would be great if one likes to see text scroll by in a terminal window all the time. :D13:43
thrice`ah, sad to hear that.  guess it makes sense, though13:43
spaceninja1Romster: I didn't see what errors I would get if I would run it without bistream13:43
treachdude, I get like 300MB updates to kde 4.1 twice a week. :>13:43
thrice`oh, no, I mean sad to hear you're not on crux anymore :)13:45
Romsterkde runs alot faster in crux than it does on most other distros.13:46
Romsternogagplz, can vouch for that :D13:46
treachwell, that can change. and it will, as soon as I manage to find a replacement power cord for my laptop.13:46
Romsteri used to run KDE but not anymore.13:46
treachand, yes, kde is much faster in crux than in any other distro I've tried.13:47
treachbut the upgrade process isn't, and at the current update rate, putting it on crux would be insane, IMO.13:47
nogagplzkde3.5.9? the speed is just ... *gapes*. don't plan on bothering with 4 for a little while, purely out of cbf'edness13:48
thrice`yeah, 4.1 is still buggy and sluggish13:48
treachI'm running Version 4.1.1 (KDE 4.1.0 (4.1 >= 20080722)) "release 40.1"13:49
treachand it's not bad.13:49
Romsterbit slower than 3.5.9?13:49
Romsteri read they disabled customising the panel as much?13:49
treachno, I don't think "disabled" is the right word.13:49
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nogagplzMoreso haven't progressed to making it that customisable?13:50
treachthere's a lot of stuff that isn't fully implemented yet, but on the whole it's not bad IMO13:50
nogagplzthey totally replaced kicker didn't they?13:50
* thrice` still prefers openbox :)13:50
treachnogagplz: yeah, there is no such thing anymore13:50
treachthe panel's just another widget.13:51
nogagplzthat's lame, kicker was rather nice13:51
treachI think it's a good idea.13:51
treachwhy would you need a separate application for it?13:52
thrice`bah, the marketing guys just have you13:52
nogagplzwhy not? it's not like it uses a ridiculous amount of memory :P13:52
thrice`yeah, adding widgets on top of widgets seems dumb to me13:52
thrice`(actually, a "widget" in general is :)13:53
treachwhat's so silly about it? It's just a name for a container that can contain other containers, essentially13:53
thrice`oh, right...*totally* logical :P13:53
treachand using the same building blocks for the etire desktop makes a lot more sense to me than a whole buch of different apps13:54
thrice`huh?  there is a k* for everything under the moon, it seems13:54
treachthrice`: I guess you never played with LEGO ;)13:54
nogagplzwouldn't it be something like Legorok in this case?13:55
treachno idea what that is.13:56
tilmanlego + amarok?13:57
nogagplzthought it would sound better than k-lego.13:57
treachI don't get that. it's not like the letter "g" is uncommon to prefix an application name...13:58
thrice`lol13:58
treachand yet nobody complains about that. .>13:58
treach"I love the smell of hipocracy in the morning". :>13:59
treachbah, hypocracy13:59
tilmanbah, hypocrisy13:59
* nogagplz loves the smell of napalm obliterating hypocrisy in the morning14:00
treachgrr, that's what you get for splitting your attention.14:00
Romsterheh the only anoying part is the gthis gthat and kthis kthat.14:04
Romsterit's as bad as the ithis and ithat that mac does.14:05
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Romsterbut that's just a cosmetic thing.14:06
treachbut it's funny people *only* complain about k*14:06
treachmust be some sort of jealousy involved. :>14:07
thrice`yes, we desire gigs of k* apps to serve us coffee, etc.14:08
treachactually, teatime doesn't start with k, afaik. :>14:09
treachand you'll have ten's of gigs of apps to do the same if they start with "g" :p14:09
treach/dev/sda1             494M  317M  153M  68% /14:11
treach/dev/md1              4.5G  2.3G  2.0G  55% /usr14:11
treach/dev/md0             1004M  319M  634M  34% /var14:11
treachthat's with quite a bit of apps, and some libs that could be considered "unnecessary".14:12
Romsterhttp://rafb.net/p/68fLfU70.html14:13
thrice`haha14:13
Romsterand i have more space in my volume group.14:14
treachyay, 119 GB on / ...14:14
Romsteryeah that's the 2005 install when i couldn't figure out how to partition it.14:14
thrice`outside of /home, too...how is that possible?14:14
Romsterthat'll change.14:14
Romsterhehe :D14:14
Romstermount /home after root.14:15
treachwhat!?14:15
thrice`treach: bah, we will convert you back14:15
Romsterit's mostly /usr and /var that uses the space. and i haven't fully migrated it over yet.14:16
treachTime will tell. :>14:17
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nipuLre poppler: i never got any email17:33
thrice`configure: error: Required libx86 was not found17:33
thrice`hrm, wtf?17:34
treachvirtualbox?17:34
thrice`no, "suspend"17:34
treachheh, ok :p17:34
thrice`it's a suse project, that's why it's dumb17:34
treachhm. I've been awake for too many hours by now. that doesn't make any sense17:36
thrice`just blaming suse, nothing more :)17:36
* treach shrugs17:36
thrice`http://en.opensuse.org/S2ram17:36
thrice`trying to install that17:37
treachah17:37
Romsteri haven't tried it yet.17:37
treachseems to be a Kommon problem. ;>17:39
thrice`Romster: there is a port on the portdb, if you're interrested :)17:40
Romsterah17:46
thrice`http://ecarux.de/ports/suspend/Pkgfile17:47
thrice`oops, sorry17:47
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thrice`ah, got it :)17:52
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thrice`wow, suspend works :)  awesome18:14
Romsterneat how hard is it to get working?18:35
Romsterand you had to use that hal patch i bet.18:35
Romsterwonder if you can get hibernate (STD) to also work.18:35
thrice`no, I have no hal installed :)18:38
thrice`no, it's nice.  that script can scan your hardware and tell you what to use18:38
Romsteroh no hal...18:45
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Romsterhttp://www.tuxonice.net/18:49
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