IRC Logs for #crux Thursday, 2008-09-25

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prologicmercurial rocks!00:11
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nipuLRomster: backporting would just require an extra tag01:19
nipuLeg, 2.4-release, 2.4-final01:19
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cptnthe problem is that the meaning of the master branch would change01:20
cptni.e. right now, we generate the 2.4 ports repo from the 2.4 branch01:20
cptnat any point in time01:20
cptnwell, it's not a "problem" per se but probably the reason why this setup was chosen01:21
pitillogood morning01:21
cptnbut we could just branch 2.n at the time we start developing 2.n+101:21
cptnas long as users don't use git to get ports, that's fine01:22
cptnpitillo: morning01:23
pitillo:)01:23
nipuLit's a problem to merge master back into a release branch while that version is active?01:25
nipuLit would allow ports to be verified/tested before getting pushed into the version branch01:25
cptnah01:25
cptnthat just adds another step01:26
pitillobrbrbrbr 59new notifications?01:26
cptnbut it might make sense, sure01:26
nipuLbut it wouldn't be a bad step01:26
cptnnot at all01:26
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cptnthe only risk is that users start to use master01:27
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cptnand then go from 2.4 -> 2.5 via ports01:27
nipuLpfft01:27
nipuLthen it;s their own fault01:27
cptnwhich we haven't supported so far01:27
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nipuLi've gone 1.3 -> 2.0 -> ... -> 2.4 via ports01:28
nipuLi've had the same crux on my pc since about 3 months after i started using it01:29
cptnthis won't solve the notification problem though ;-)01:30
cptnoh wait01:31
cptnthere's one thing:01:31
cptnthe default merge in git is tree-wise01:31
cptnso if two maintainers have ports in master for testing01:32
cptnthey'll have to pay attention not to merge the other's port01:32
cptnI'd expect frequent mistakes in this area01:33
nipuLnot paying attention is what started this discussio01:33
nipuLn01:33
cptnyes, but cherrypicking the right commit is a lot more work than merging into the right branch01:34
cptnso the new model would likely cause more problems than it solves01:34
nipuLon a more important matter, do we know who to stone for the commit bomb yet?01:35
cptnlooks like Simone caused it01:37
nipuLdammit, i was about to close early today because i didn't get a lunch break, then someone snuck in and jumped on an internet cafe machine, now i'm stuck here for another 30 min :[01:51
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tilman~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~crap04:12
tilmandamnit04:12
tilmanhow did anyone push to master when refs/heads/master isn't writable?04:13
tilmanwell, they didn't04:20
tilmanthis 5s boot thing done by intel looks interesting04:23
tilmankernel boot in 1s, apparently04:23
tilmancurrently it's about 2-3s for me, i think04:23
cptnI fear that for the large distro's there's a lot more potential for easy optimization04:24
tilmanof course04:24
cptnbut it's definitely interesting04:24
tilmancptn: crux almost is at those 5s04:24
tilmani think i counted 6-7s to login at console04:24
tilmanbut cutting down the kernel boot time by 50% is cool04:24
cptntrue04:24
cptnI think they're also booting into X, right?04:24
tilmanright04:25
cptnwith some hacks in the x server04:25
tilman1s for X coming up, 2s for the desktop environment04:25
tilmanaccording to the pro-linux.de article04:25
tilmanthrice`: so, what about STR in crux?04:35
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cruxbot[core.git]: dcron: update to 3.205:01
prologic__tilman, got a link ?05:02
tilmanprologic__: not sure a german article would be very helpful to you05:03
tilmanhttp://lwn.net/Articles/299483/ if you have a LWN subscription ;)05:03
prologic__ta05:06
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namenlostilman: how much does that cost?05:35
tilmanit's been a while since i've checked05:35
tilman20 us$ for three months, or for a full year05:35
tilmansomething like that05:35
namenlosk, i'll check on my own, thxt05:36
tilmannamenlos: i don't have one myself :)05:36
tilmannamenlos: fwiw, the article in question should become free to view in a few hours05:36
namenlosah, k.05:37
namenlosi just was once interressted in it a view days ago, but didn't check (checked now, it's $5 per month)05:38
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DarkNekrosjust for laughs xDD -> http://www.masalatime.com/?p=46606:42
cruxbot[xorg.git]: xorg-xf86-input-synaptics: initial release.06:46
spaceninjadoes the crux iso use some kind of script to automatically load the needed modules during bootup?06:58
teKit's initrd loads the available modules07:01
teKhttp://crux.nu/gitweb/?p=system/iso.git;a=blob_plain;f=initramfs/init;h=d6fc94c5b4b72a9934cab103e62f6d47ecbf2b7a07:02
spaceninjaso it doesn't check which hardware I have and load the appropriate module?07:03
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spaceninjatoo hard for me to understand07:13
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spaceninjaI guess it just loads some modules withou looking into the hardware07:17
teKyes07:18
cptnno07:19
cptnit uses /sys07:19
cptnand udev07:19
spaceninjait does?07:19
cptnah no, sorry07:19
cptnyou're talking of the iso07:20
cptnnot regular bootup07:20
spaceninjaoh, so it uses udev during a regular bootup.07:20
cptnno, that's mdev07:20
cptnit is as you said, a list of modules is loaded07:21
cptnI confused it with regular (= now ISO) bootup07:22
cptnsince I didn't check the context07:22
spaceninjaok, but is there some kind of script that looks in my hardware and compiles a small kernel for it?07:23
cptncheck the link tek posted07:23
cptnah, sorry again07:23
cptnno, don't think that exists07:23
cptnbut I think someone asked the same question a while ago07:23
cptnso maybe you can check the logs and see whether he got an answer07:24
cptndo you have to build kernels for so many machines?07:25
cptnor why do you need a script for it?07:25
spaceninjaI thought it would be really nice to have a script like that, fast compilation without hassling with lspci and lsmod and stuff07:36
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teKyou may want to look into gentoo's genkernel package07:46
cptnspaceninja: how's the progress with the build server btw?07:46
cptnteK: "Because genkernel is designed to use a generic configuration, it should be able to support all of your hardware - however, because all the drivers and modules have to be compiled [...]"07:48
cptnsounds not really like a minimal kernel to me07:48
cptn(from http://gentoo-wiki.com/Genkernel)07:48
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teKok07:51
spaceninjacptn: slow and unsteady, I couldn't get postgresql cgi and lighttpd to work together, but I'm going to use django now.07:53
spaceninjabut I'm trying to compile the kernel now which is not fun07:54
spaceninjaI'm thinking about booting knoppix and see which modules I need07:55
cptnwell, why don't you reuse CRUX' default config?07:59
spaceninjaFound this free book. http://www.kroah.com/lkn/  Chapter 7 looks interesting08:00
cptnerr08:01
spaceninjaI could, but the result I got from make defconfig was more "minimalistic" I think, I could be wrong08:01
cptnhttp://crux.morpheus.net/irc/?channel=crux&date=30Jun2008#15:13:1408:02
cptnkinda sounds familiar...08:02
cptnto quote from there: http://crux.morpheus.net/irc/?channel=crux&date=30Jun2008#15:13:1408:03
cptn15:13:14 <cptn> spaceninja: http://www.kroah.com/lkn/08:03
spaceninjayes, an old book08:03
spaceninjaI got08:03
cptnit's actually a pretty new book08:03
spaceninjaoh08:03
cptnit's just that I told you already :-)08:03
spaceninjahaha my memory sucks08:04
spaceninjadamn logs :)08:04
spaceninjaphone08:04
spaceninjatime for some Jack Bauer action08:09
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jaegernext time on '24': Jack Bauer yells into the phone and hangs up without saying goodbye!08:36
namenloslol08:36
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Gekzoh herro.08:50
go|dfishPlease no.08:50
Gekzhahaha08:51
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spaceninjashould my vmlinuz and system.map be in /boot or in / ?09:54
teKlilo does not require you to put it in /boot; I'd do it anyway.09:55
tilmanvmlinuz should be anywhere where your boot thingy can pick it up09:55
spaceninjaok thanks09:56
spaceninjaI have to admit that I've been playing around with netbsd, but then I realized that it sucked compared with crux, so I went back, but they got nice quality packages :)10:04
namenloswas trying out freebsd,  but couldn't get X running...10:06
namenlosotherwise it was pretty cool10:06
tilmancsh as default = fail, imo10:07
spaceninjaEverything just gets so bloated when you compare them with curx10:07
spaceninjaI tried ksh, but it couldn't autocomplete as I wanted it10:07
spaceninjabut I've heard bash is bloated compared with ksh10:08
spaceninjathat10:08
tilmani switched to zsh some months ago, it's great10:08
spaceninjainteresting10:08
spaceninjaI haven't tried it10:09
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spaceninjaheh, it doesn't matter if I install crux with the updated iso, everything needs to be updated anyway. So when is there going to be a new release of the crux iso? :)10:31
spaceninjalet me guess, when it's finished? :)10:32
thrice`nope10:32
tilmanyeah10:32
thrice`after it's done10:32
tilmanthrice`: any luck with STR?10:32
thrice`sorry, STR?10:32
tilmansuspend to ram10:32
thrice`ooh, gotcha.  I had good luck with 2.6.24.x, but everything after was behaving strangely10:33
thrice`but that could easily just be my chipset / bios, too10:33
teKtilman: 'f course ZSH is great, congrats ;)10:33
thrice`I used this:  http://en.opensuse.org/S2ram10:34
tilmanthrice`: great, i was just about to ask :)10:34
thrice`that will even check your hardware and tell you if it should work :)10:36
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jaegeranyone know if I can safely hot swap a drive in a MegaRaid (LSI Logic) SATA RAID controller in linux? it's a 300-4XLP, specifically, using the megaraid_mbox driver11:22
jaegerI've done it without any trouble a few times on some of the SCSI controllers but never with SATA11:23
rehabdollmmm, mail! \o/11:29
Romstersata is by design hot swapable but the driver and controller card i wouldn't know about.11:37
jaegerdid some searching, seems it works as I'd expect, same as the SCSI versions11:39
rehabdollhttp://linux-ata.org/11:51
rehabdollah, no raid drivers there11:52
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jaegeron a side note, I hate pulseaudio12:08
tilmani just don't see the need for it :D12:09
jaegernor do I12:12
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Romsteryo Evil_Piggies :D13:40
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thrice`from what I've read, it seems most disable pulseaudio anyway, no>?13:45
Evil_Piggies:)13:45
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treachpulseaudio isn't needed for most people, and it causes a lot of trouble.13:50
treachor at least it did in the past13:50
jaegerit's enabled by default in ubuntu hardy13:51
treachit's enabled everywhere.. :>13:51
treachubuntu, fedora, suse..13:51
jaegerfortulately removing it doesn't seem to be problematic13:51
treachyeah, as I said, it's not needed for most people13:52
treachafaik, it's only worth bothering with if you want to stream audio to your client, or something like that13:52
Romsterpulsaudio also messes up wine13:55
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spaceninjahow do I enable frambuffer, is it in lilo?14:10
thrice`you enable it in the kernel.  you request it in lilo :)14:10
spaceninjaI have it in the kernel, I picked VESA14:11
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spaceninjablah14:17
cruxbot[contrib.git]: texinfo: 4.13 -> 4.13a14:21
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spaceninjashould I have vesa fb driver compiled as a module?14:27
treachno14:27
spaceninjaok but it doesn't work, I have vga=ask in lilo.conf14:28
treachthen you presumeably did something wrong14:28
spaceninjadoubt that14:30
spaceninja:)14:30
* thrice` doesn't doubt it14:30
thrice`anyway, does dmesg say anything after boot?14:30
spaceninjayes14:30
treach"Help, my owner is a retard!"14:31
treach;)14:31
Romsterhttp://tldp.org/HOWTO/Framebuffer-HOWTO.html atari now that doc is getting dated.14:31
treachheh14:32
spaceninjaI'm recompiling the kernel14:32
thrice`I didn't even know "ask" was an option o.O14:33
thrice`not sure how that's even useful, but what do I know :)14:33
Romsteri did.14:33
spaceninjaI'm going to try vga=0x31614:33
spaceninja21714:33
spaceninja31714:33
* treach gives Romster an e-cookie14:33
Romster:)14:33
thrice`I use 872 :)14:33
Romsteri found that ages ago in the man lilo iirc.14:34
* treach can't remember what he uses, since his laptop is out of commision since months. :(14:34
treach*commission*14:34
Romsterog :/14:34
Romsteroh*14:34
spaceninjabut how is the iso configured? It can handle frambuffer.14:34
Romsterit died on you?14:34
thrice`treach: you don't use it on the desktop?14:34
treachRomster: no, the cat chew through the powercord, between the transformer and the laptop. :/14:35
Romsterspaceninja, look in the video section in the kernel config14:35
treachand I haven't found a replacement for it yet14:35
Romsterdang.14:35
treachyeah14:35
spaceninjaI have already enabled it14:35
Romsterarn't they like 17-21 volt power supplies?14:36
spaceninjaor did you mean the user guide?14:36
Romsterdepending on model.14:36
treachRomster: something like that.14:36
spaceninjahandbook14:36
Romsterwould think you could get something,14:36
treachwell, it has to be reasonably compatible wrt current and effect too.14:37
spaceninjait refuses to work14:38
thrice`can you pastebin your lilo.conf ?14:38
spaceninjaI have put vga=317 just before the "image" line14:39
jaegertry 0x31714:40
spaceninjaI meant that14:41
spaceninjaI mean14:41
spaceninja:S14:41
jaegerah, ok14:41
spaceninjaI know, maybe I should put it like this, image=/boot/vmlinuz vga=0x31714:44
Romstertreach, thought i remembered http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=MP3471&CATID=&keywords=power+supply&SPECIAL=&form=KEYWORD&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=    http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=MP3245&CATID=&keywords=power+supply&SPECIAL=&form=KEYWORD&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=14:45
thrice`no, shouldn't matter14:45
Romsterone of them should do the job.14:45
spaceninjait doesn't work..14:45
thrice`did you try just "vga = 317"  ?14:45
Romsteralthough sorry it's a Australian company and i know your overseas14:45
spaceninjano 0x31714:45
treachRomster: heh, huge overkill. :)14:46
Romsterah,,,14:46
thrice`what type of laptop is it?14:46
treachIBM R4014:46
thrice`seems like most thinkpad cords would work14:46
treachyeah, probably. I haven't looked that deeply into it, since I've neither had time/budget for it.14:47
treachbut since it's an IBM it would make sense if they were still in use in some way. :)14:47
thrice`thinkpad R40's were quite popular.  checked ebay?14:48
* spaceninja reinstalls everything14:48
treachNo, don't have ebay here.14:48
treachWUS14:48
Romstertreach, how is it hard to get a quick google made me find this http://www.amazon.com/Adapter-Power-Supply-Cord-Thinkpad/dp/B0010WL5KQ14:48
thrice`spaceninja: heh, that won't fix a thing :)14:48
treachRomster: since I don't generally look abroad for stuff, it's a *bit* difficult.14:49
Romsterhmm14:49
treachthanks for the find though.14:50
Romster16v ~ 4.5A supply even maybe find something at a electronics shop14:50
treachprobably. I'd feel a bit more comfy with the orginal stuff though.14:51
Romsteror try and get that one repaired.14:51
Romsterunless they are glued together.14:51
thrice`make your cat fix it :O14:51
Romsterlol14:51
treachI've thougth about that. the hard thing would probably be finding someplace that could do it.14:51
treachRomster: it's not like we're drowning in electronics shops here, unfortunately.14:52
Romsterany electronics techo would take a crack at it pun intended.14:52
treachyes, I know14:52
Romsterno always easy, you could do it yourself if your careful.14:53
thrice`indeed.  strip, solder, cover :)14:53
treachunfortunately the time when you could reliably found someone in a shop that could tell a soldering iron from a shoehorn is pretty much over. at least around here. :/14:54
treachs/found/find14:54
Romsterjust watch out for the main capacitor they old a dangerous charge. short it out to be sure expect a bit of a spark if it's got any charge in it so look away.14:54
* thrice` has one at his desk :)14:54
Romsters/old/hold14:54
thrice`hm, I think I'm gonna stick kde4 on my laptop14:55
Romsterbloat *cough*14:55
treachmmh, I guess I could do it myself, I've done soldering before. But I feel a bit catious about stuff like this, I've never done anything more complicated than a few resistors before. :>14:56
thrice`hm, it is a hefty download :(14:58
treachyep14:58
Romsteri'm liking pekwm with fbpanel14:59
veganlionnever seen so much blahblah on #crux14:59
Romsterpanel isn't requied though14:59
veganlionbefore14:59
Romsterveganlion, you been on at the wrong times then :)15:00
spaceninjalol, I just tried out kde 4, it's really buggy, how can anyone really use it? :)15:00
treachkde 4.1 is pretty good.15:00
veganlioni hate kde 415:00
veganlionfor being useless15:00
Romstertreach, it's the low voltage side so it shouldn't be too tricky just don't snease and make solder bridges. or mess the polarity up.15:00
thrice`4.1 is pretty buggy still :(15:00
veganlionstill have to install qt 3 oups compile qt315:01
treachthrice`: running 4.1.2 here. :>15:01
thrice`i doubt 4.1.1 -> 4.1.2 was that significant15:01
thrice`4.1.0 -> 4.1.1 doesn't seem to be15:01
treachheh, they added another bug here. :D15:01
thrice`did you compile it yourself?15:02
* spaceninja didn't use crux's kde 4 version.15:02
thrice`sadly, crux doesn't have one :(15:03
spaceninjaoh15:03
treachthrice`: no, I'm using the "factory desktop" repo.15:03
thrice`then again, kde4 adds about 40 new deps than kde3 did15:03
Romsteri never did finish my kde4 porting. lost interest.15:03
thrice`yeah, not worth it yet.  wait til 4.2 :)15:04
cruxbot[contrib.git]: cmake: 2.6.1 -> 2.6.215:07
Romsterif you must have a DE on a laptop i'd choose xfce15:07
spaceninjapeople are too messy when they code, I don't like it.15:07
Romsteri'd go a WM though much lighter on resources.15:08
thrice`yeah, I have xfce on there currently15:09
rehabdollfluxbox ftw15:09
spaceninjano Xorg ftw!15:10
Romsterlol15:12
Romsteryeah do everything in a frambuffer :D15:12
Romsterframebuffer*15:12
spaceninjayeah why not :D15:14
* spaceninja tries to figure out if tcsh is better than zsh.15:14
go|dfishspaceninja: If you're a heroin addict.15:17
spaceninja:)15:18
go|dfishspaceninja: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/unix-faq/shell/csh-whynot/15:22
spaceninjaok zsh wins15:25
spaceninjathanks15:26
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spaceninjaok, I think I'm going to use the kernel.config from the iso15:32
treachdon't.15:32
treachyou might want to look at it, but don't use it.15:33
spaceninjaok15:33
spaceninjamake defconfig then15:33
treachcome on15:34
spaceninjathen what should I do? :)15:34
treachfix your shit15:34
spaceninjathat's what I'm trying to do15:35
treachdon't rely on stuff customized for different circumstances than your own, it will rarely work.15:35
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treachchances are that the configuration you've already done is *better* for your purposes than the others, which might solve your current problem, but give you 10 others, just as bad or worse.15:36
spaceninjabut what's the best way to remove all the junk that I don't need from the kernel?15:38
treachthe best way? learn what you need / want. then include it.15:38
treachdisable the rest.15:38
treachthere are no shortcuts. :>15:39
spaceninjayep15:59
spaceninjawow gnome 2.24 released! :D16:00
spaceninjayes the framebuffer is working!16:05
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spaceninjagnight16:31
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cruxbot[opt.git]: slim: updated to 1.3.118:11
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thrice`oh no, no more epdfview :(18:23
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nipuLthrice`: as in the devs quit?18:44
nipuLas in dropped from ports18:50
nipuL:\18:50
thrice`the latter18:56
go|dfishhmm, how come?18:58
nipuLno idea, simone just dropped without announcing it18:58
nipuLeither the descision has been made it doesn't belong in opt, he he doesn't want to maintain it18:58
nipuLs/he he/or he/18:58
go|dfishah18:59
nipuLeither way, once i find out what's happening i'll pick it up18:59
thrice`i'd guess he just doesn't use it18:59
go|dfish:)18:59
nipuLeither by putting it back in opt, or moving it to contrib19:00
thrice`sure you can handle it?  I think they release almost once per year :)19:02
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nipuLyeah, it's a pretty full on port to maintain19:19
nipuLbut i think i'm up to the challenge19:19
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