IRC Logs for #crux Saturday, 2008-12-13

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cruxbot[xorg.git/2.5]: xorg-xcb-util: initial release.05:04
cruxbot[opt.git/2.5]: lftp: updated to
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nipuLprologic: well i took it for granted you've eaten vegemite. also, my kernel uprade is scheduled for monday evening. i can't help you on that front until then05:38
rastajamesaustralians and their vegemite..05:43
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klickDamn, I hate this.05:48
klickShould I get a Jornada 728 or not...05:49
klickIt's quite expensive...05:49
ahmrahtcheerklick, are you single or married or have live-in significant other?05:50
klickI have a girl friend expecting a baby due in January =)05:51
ahmrahtcheerif married or co-occupying space with a significant other, then no.  if single, go for it!05:51
ahmrahtcheeroh...congratulations! :)05:51
klickIt's only $275 =)05:52
ahmrahtcheerare you ready to hear the g/f gripe at you an hour for every dollar spent?05:52
* ahmrahtcheer has been living with the same woman for 17 yrs, and that's the mean average of her hissy fits when i buy something unexpected05:52
ahmrahtcheerwhat IS a Jornada 728, anyway?05:53
klickThat's the 720, the only difference is black and 32mb versus blue and 64 mb.05:55
klickIt's highly attractive, and, if I bought it I would stop talking about the Sony Ericsson Xperia X1 24/7.05:56
klickThe X1 is $744 ... vs Jornada $275.. though there is quite a difference in features and hardware.05:57
klick 728 vs X1 comparison.05:58
ahmrahtcheerahhh, sort of a modern libretto05:59
ahmrahtcheerwhole thing is about the size of a video tape casette, right?06:00
klickYeah, 8" wide approx.06:00
klickbrb, smoke06:00
ahmrahtcheerhmmm ARM CPUs on both...06:02
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klickI am back.06:12
klickWell, it's either the Jornada and a new simple phone.. or one X1.06:13
klickThe X1 is still more expensive than the Jornada+Phone approach.06:13
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ahmrahtcheerare  you planning on keeping windows on the jordana?06:14
ahmrahtcheerokay, 'cause it takes a bit of work to port linux over, and i don't know if there's a NetBSD port to ARM06:14
ahmrahtcheeran online buddy installed Linux From Scratch on an ARM computer a few weeks ago.06:15
klickOkay, well, I was told by the guy who told me about the Jornada that Linux doesn't run easily on it.06:23
klickIt does run and does run Doom, but you have to reboot it everytime. It does not support standby.06:23
klickBut I want Windows anyway.06:23
ahmrahtcheeryeah, ARM uses a different instruction set than IA32 or IA64 chips06:24
ahmrahtcheersupposed to be rockin' little CPUs, especially in embedded situations.06:27
ahmrahtcheerbut i've little knowledge of them06:27
ahmrahtcheerhere's another computer that uses ARM CPUs:  http://gumstix.com06:28
ahmrahtcheera computer the size of a stick of gum...06:28
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klickYeah, I've seen that one. Really coolish.06:45
ahmrahtcheeri'd like to see someone stick a couple hundred of those things in a suitcase, connect 'em all together into a LAN, and install the right kind of Linux for a beowulf cluster.  viola!  a man-portable supercomputer! :)06:47
* treach figures someone doing something like that at dreamhack :P06:49
ahmrahtcheeri've no idea how much one of the gumstix cost, but if you go by what a pico-itx mobo with C7 on it costs, you're looking at a couple of hundred thousand US$'s06:51
* klick hates DH06:51
treachbah, via is redicolously overpriced.06:52
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Rotwangdonno why thunderbird doesn't like MAKEFLAGS08:50
Rotwangcan someone confirm?08:50
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* treach watches a tumbleweed blow by.11:36
ahmrahtcheerwhere are you that you have tumbleweeds to watch?11:37
treach#crux. :P11:37
jaegerRotwang: any specific makeflags? or does setting the var to anything at all break it?11:38
Rotwangjaeger: it breaks w/ MAKEFLAGS=-j3 on my machine i havent tested it w/ other MAKEFLAGS11:44
jaegerthe mozilla products have always been super fragile with -jX where X > 111:45
Rotwangit breaks with -j500 as well ;]11:48
Rotwangits not giving any error just     make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/ports/opt/thunderbird/work/src/mozilla'11:49
Rotwangthats all, weird :\11:49
tilmanthe error is probably hidden in stdout output11:49
tilmanie: scroll up11:49
Rotwangive looked through it11:49
Rotwangit happens after configure11:50
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colonelcrayonhello, i'm interested in using CRUX and i'd like to hear what you like/dislike about it.  i'm mostly interested in minimalism and speed.14:35
draciethe idea you have to compile your own kernel to really get support you need14:36
dracieso you don't have a big fat over compatible kernel14:36
treachYOU are in control, in every sense of the concept. Which is a benefit for most, and a deathtrap to some. :>14:37
dracieyou configure everything by hand too, which is a lot easier to do if you ask me14:37
thrice`I think those bullet points do a great job of summarizing the strengths of CRUX :)14:37
dracielol well said thrice14:37
draciei am install crux right now btw14:37
draciejust need to install grub or lilo14:37
colonelcrayonsounds great :D14:39
dracielol yup14:39
draciebut yeah the crux wiki sums it up pretty well14:39
ahmrahtcheerif you're wanting a minimalistic, fast OS, CRUX seems to be unbeatable by my tests14:40
ahmrahtcheerbut it's definitely not a beginner's distro14:41
dracieI think a beginner could handle it if they were careful14:41
draciehmm grub or lilo?14:43
ahmrahtcheerwe're fixin' to see in a few days:  i'm gonna turn my 13 year old twins loose with a CRUX installCD and a blank drive.  they can do a slackware install, we'll see how they handle CRUX :)14:43
colonelcrayoni want a challenge. arch was too easy, gentoo was buggy, slack is great but i already have a partition for it, and my hardware doesn't like the bsds.  trying to decide between crux and lunar...14:43
colonelcrayonimo, grub > lilo14:43
dracieyeah freebsd doesn't even boot on my hardware14:44
draciepage faults14:44
ahmrahtcheerinstead of lunar, check into source mage linux:  http://sourcemage.org14:44
draciewhats good about lunar?14:44
colonelcrayonnetbsd works ok, but flash doesn't work at all with it14:44
dracieflash?  could get gnash14:44
ahmrahtcheerfor speed, CRUX beats both lunar and source mage, hands down, but source mage is more user-friendly14:45
colonelcrayonlunar is the only distro that was too "hard" for me (~1 year ago), and i want to see if i can handle it now ;)14:45
colonelcrayonhow is sourcemage better?14:45
surround1rlunar and sourcemage get too much in your face imho14:45
surround1rless annoying to just adjust a Pkgfile then answering some questions every time you install a package :P14:46
ahmrahtcheercolonelcrayon, for one thing, the #sourcemage folks are really friendly and helpful...antithetical to the gentoo folks.14:46
dracieyeah I think i will just install lilo and then do grub after i got my kernel configured14:46
surround1rthat's true14:46
dracieis sourcemage easier than gentoo?14:46
ahmrahtcheerit's the closest thing i've seen to a "user-friendly source-based distro"14:47
colonelcrayongentoo has serious bugs, in my experience14:47
draciehow do they make it user friendly?14:47
ahmrahtcheerthat said, i like crux equally well.  it fits nicely alongside NetBSD since they both use pkgsrc14:47
surround1r *can use14:48
colonelcrayonsourcemage may replace lunar then... i hated lunar's module system14:48
colonelcrayon@dracie: gnash never worked well for me.  has it improved a lot recently?14:49
ahmrahtcheerdracie, it's user-friendly compared to, say, gentoo, which is imho made as intentionally difficult as possible, in order to retain the 'gentoo mystique'14:49
draciewell i was just told it does youtube ok14:49
colonelcrayonportage is an abomination (imo)14:49
draciei was happy when i met gentoo users that were nice to me14:49
ahmrahtcheerlol a red letter day, for sure14:49
colonelcrayoni do miss the gentoo wiki...14:49
draciegentoo man stuff on the site is quite nice14:50
ahmrahtcheergentoo's website is another matter...i routinely steer n00bs with GRUB problems to their GRUB troubleshooting page14:50
ahmrahtcheerand have been known to access it myself on occasion. :)14:51
dracieyeah the trouble shooting page is nice14:51
colonelcrayonare any of you using jfs with crux?  i kind of want to try that while i'm at it...14:52
treachI do on my laptop.14:52
Rotwangkillerfs ftw14:52
tilmanhohoho funny.14:53
tilmanoh no, it's not.14:53
ahmrahtcheercolonelcrayon, i'm not using crux atm.  i want to wait until i get another monitor for my desktop box (the g/f's monitor died, so we replaced it with mine.   I'm using my lappy atm.)14:53
treachtilman: the boot? -(:|14:54
thrice`I use jfs on my lappy also14:54
colonelcrayonjfs looks better than reiserfs to me; any thoughts there?14:54
tilmantoo bad we don't have a karma bot in here14:54
ahmrahtcheeri use reiserfs14:54
treach@karma Rotwang14:54
clbtreach: Karma for "Rotwang" has been increased 1 time and decreased 1 time for a total karma of 0.14:54
ahmrahtcheeri've heard that jfs doesn't like things like power failures14:54
colonelcrayonany speed/stability thoughts on the filesystems?14:54
draciejfs has support in the crux iso14:54
draciedon't use ext314:54
dracieuse resier14:54
colonelcrayonour power does go out frequently...14:55
treachjfs uses less cpu than reiser, so it's a good match for lappies14:55
dracieext3 might be your best bet14:55
colonelcrayon**** windstorms...14:55
ahmrahtcheerditto; one of the very few negative aspects about living in the boonies14:55
treachand I've only had one minor problem with powerloss and jfs.14:55
tilmanthe built-in raid features of btrfs seem to be the bomb14:55
treachI think you're confusing it with xfs14:55
colonelcrayoni want to at least try something new; i can always move back to ext314:55
colonelcrayonperformance is my main concern, since i back my data up14:56
treachtilman: yeah, too bad it ain't done yet. :p14:56
tilmantreach: 1.0 is/was due in q4 2008!14:56
tilmanso it might be in 2.6.29 in march/april, right?14:56
treachhehe, we'll see about that. :D14:56
thrice`they're just taking the e17 dev approach :>14:57
thrice`(also probably falls under the "hohoho not funny" catagory) :)14:57
treachbtrfs hasn't been in development any way near as long14:57
tilmane17 was started in 99 or 200014:57
colonelcrayone17: because releases are boring ;)14:57
colonelcrayoncrux is downloading now.  it seems like my best possibility14:58
ahmrahtcheertreach, i might be confusing jfs and xfs, yep14:58
thrice`if you're downloading crux for the first time, you might want to grab a 2.5 iso instead of 2.414:58
tilmanfwiw, xfs copes with power loss much better these days14:59
colonelcrayonwhat's better in 2.5?  i generally prefer stable releases...14:59
treachahmrahtcheer: I'm guessing so since xfs at least was notorious with dataloss when losing power.14:59
tilmanwe don't have enough man power to support ports for more than one version15:00
tilmanie the ports for 2.4 won't be updated anymore soon15:00
colonelcrayoncan you upgrade from 2.4 to 2.5?15:00
colonelcrayonis it like upgrading one of the bloated [imo] distros like ubuntu, where everything crashes and burns?15:01
ahmrahtcheerubuntu is bloated, yep.  slackware's getting that way; the 12.0 and later releases come on 2 CDs vs 1 for 11.0 and earlier15:02
tilmanupgrading from 2.x to 2.(x+1) usually works very well15:02
thrice`you will have a very long initially update installing 2.4 :)15:02
tilmani cannot remember whether we ever had problems with upgrading15:02
colonelcrayonsounds good.  i do a minimal install w/slack, but i may stop with 12.1 for a while15:02
ahmrahtcheeri'm dumping slack off the desktop in favor of NetBSD (and will install source mage on it, too)15:03
colonelcrayonslack and netbsd are both great.  dragonflybsd will be good too...15:04
ahmrahtcheerthis laptop, an 800MHz P3mobile will get NetBSD and CRUX, hopefully via distcc off the desktop box.15:04
colonelcrayonone last question: are compile times a major issue?  i never had problems with pkgsrc, but ports [freebsd] always seemed to take forever15:05
colonelcrayon^ on crux15:05
ahmrahtcheerwhat kind of CPU and how much RAM do you have?15:05
surround1rno not really imho15:05
ahmrahtcheernothing currently available on the civilian market can compile gcc and glibc quickly :)15:06
colonelcrayonathlon 64 x2 3800+ processor and 1 gig of ram15:06
tilmanyou don't compile gcc and glibc anyway15:06
surround1rcolonelcrayon: won't be a problem15:06
tilmanusually :D15:06
surround1rcolonelcrayon: I use CRUX comfortable on a p3 1 ghz, a p4 1,8 ghz and an athlon xp2200+15:07
colonelcrayoni don't mind letting things compile while i go off and read a book or take a [stationary] bike ride.  i just don't want to babysit it for three hours while it compiles stuff (cough, gentoo, cough)15:07
ahmrahtcheercrux can do that unattended15:08
ahmrahtcheerjust fire 'er up before going to bed and wake up in the morning with a new OS, GUI and xchat. :)15:08
colonelcrayoni'll probably compile lostirc... xchat makes me angry ;)15:09
colonelcrayoni might try irssi again15:10
ahmrahtcheeri use either xchat or irssi, depending on mood and level of orneriness15:10
colonelcrayonlostirc is really light and nice though15:10
ahmrahtcheerif you want light, have you ever tried weechat?15:10
ahmrahtcheeri think that's the smallest irc client15:10
surround1rhehe nah15:10
ahmrahtcheerit isn't?15:11
treachNo commercials please.15:11
ahmrahtcheerdang, that IS light15:11
surround1rtreach: hehe15:12
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colonelcrayoni love suckless programs... dwm is the best!15:12
surrounderI use irssi though :P15:12
surroundercolonelcrayon: hehe yeah, really nice WM15:12
tilman-h <host>15:12
tilmanOverrides the default host (
treachdwm is cool, but that guy needs to have his head examined.15:12
tilmanwow, what a useless feature15:12
dracieeeek!  i am scard about installing grub or lilo15:12
tilmanthey could probably save 128 bytes of source code by removing that crappy default15:12
draciedf:  warning:  cannot read table of mounted file systems15:13
draciedoes that when i try to install grub15:13
treachdracie: that's normal15:13
dracieso has it installed?15:13
cruxbot[contrib.git/2.4]: asciidoc: fixed dl link15:13
treachI've no idea, I don't use grub. :D15:13
ahmrahtcheerone way to find out:  do a smoke test15:13
dracieoo it is15:13
treachdracie: it's because you're in a chroot15:14
dracieik thats how you isntall grub or lilo in crux15:14
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draciehmmm it didn't make a grub.lst or whatever15:15
draciedo i need that entry?15:15
ahmrahtcheeryep, otherwise grub panics15:16
ahmrahtcheerstarts tossin' out error messages15:16
dracieooo fun fun15:16
dracieis there an example onthe cd?15:17
ahmrahtcheerdon't remember15:17
Rotwangdracie: use find15:18
draciewoot google is my homie15:18
Rotwangor simply look into grub package ;]15:18
ahmrahtcheervery good!  that's Rule #3 of the basic Rules Of Computers :D15:18
draciethere aren't any manpages on the iso15:18
ahmrahtcheer1. GIGO, 2. RTFM, 3. GIMBF15:18
RotwangGIGO? GIMBF?15:19
ahmrahtcheerRotwang, GIGO = Garbage In Garbage Out, GIMBF = Google Is My Best Friend15:19
ahmrahtcheerGIGO is the oldest rule of computing, dating back to the late '40s15:19
treachahmrahtcheer: I thought it was SISO..?15:20
ahmrahtcheertreach, that's a modern adaptation15:20
Rotwangor FIFO ;]15:20
ahmrahtcheerbut seriously, i try to observe those 3 rules religiously.  it keeps me from unnecessarily annoying people on help channels.15:21
treach(SISO, Single Input Single Output, or "Shit In, Shit Out" :> )15:21
colonelcrayonseriously, do you think i should try 2.5?  is it stable enough for the smaller upgrade times to outweigh possible bugs?15:21
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treachlooks like he needs something a bit more stable than what he's using currently anyway. :P15:22
tilmanwow, i didn't know the LHC got messed up in october15:22
colonelcrayonsorry about that, i'm messing with slitaz and it doesn't like my wireless adapter15:22
Rotwangahmrahtcheer: TIAS should be among these rules15:22
ahmrahtcheerif the 3 rules don't solve my problem, i revert back to my paramedic training and The Paramedic Motto:  "When in fear, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout."15:22
tilmanahmrahtcheer: hahaha15:22
ahmrahtcheerit served me well through 20 years working fire and EMS15:23
colonelcrayoni've got 2.5 downloading now... hopefully my connection will stay up long enough for it to finish15:23
draciehd0,2 is right for my first logical partition after my primary boot partition right?15:24
tilmancolonelcrayon: upgrading from 2.4 to 2.5 shouldn't take *that* long15:24
colonelcrayonahmrahtcheer: great rules, and a useful backup policy15:24
ahmrahtcheercolonelcrayon, the backup policy is mandatory when the fit hits the shan15:25
tilmandracie: dunno, use find as Rotwang suggested15:25
dracieyeah i did15:25
draciefind / | grep -i menu.lst15:25
dracieno hits15:26
Rotwangdracie: look into grub package15:26
tilmanrun find in the grub shell15:26
Rotwangon the iso15:26
Rotwangbtw find / -iname menu.lst is better that grepping finds outpu imo15:27
draciegrrr i forgot to copy my ramdisk15:27
draciewaitl... i don't think crux uses an initial ram disk15:28
Rotwangdracie: grub package from 2.5rc-2 iso contains menu.lst.sample15:28
draciewhere would i find it?15:29
Rotwang /crux/opt15:29
ahmrahtcheer# title         Windows 95/98/NT/200015:30
ahmrahtcheer# root          (hd0,0)15:30
ahmrahtcheer# makeactive15:30
ahmrahtcheer# chainloader   +115:30
ahmrahtcheer# title         Linux15:30
ahmrahtcheer# root          (hd0,1)15:30
ahmrahtcheer# kernel        /vmlinuz root=/dev/hda2 ro15:30
ahmrahtcheerminus the #s15:30
ahmrahtcheeroops, sorry15:30
Rotwangahmrahtcheer: install wgetpaste ;]15:30
draciehmm i think i have it15:31
dracieooo error 1515:32
draciehello gentoo grub error page!15:32
ahmrahtcheerand an error 15 or kernel panic means you've pointed to the wrong directory for vmlinuz15:32
ahmrahtcheer:)  been there, done that more than a few times15:33
treachlilo ftw. :>15:33
ahmrahtcheertreach, i use either, don't have a real preference.  whatever comes with the distro is fine by me.15:34
dracieI am not sure how to configure /etc/lilo.conf so yeha15:34
taarinope, grub is a must.. just because of the nice console :)15:34
treachI find grub overcomplicated and easily misconfigured.15:35
taaridracie: pay attention if you have /boot on an own partition.. in that case the full path won't start with /boot of course15:35
draciemaybe i will try lilo then15:35
treachlilo is easy and reliable, the only real drawback is that you have to rember to update it if you change your kernel.15:35
draciehow long does the update take?15:36
treach1 s. :>15:36
draciethats nothing.15:36
draciejust need to write yourself a reminder15:36
taariboth bootloaders are quite easy to configure.. path to vmlinuz, path to initrd, some kernel options, name of the entry and what partition15:37
taarinot too hard :)15:37
draciehmmm reiserfs takes awhile to mount15:38
dracie2 sec15:38
draciefor a 60 gig partition15:38
treachonly first time15:38
dracieits been mounted b415:38
treachsounds a bit strange15:39
taariUSB HDD which powered down before?15:39
dracieinternal Sata15:39
draciemaybe i exaggerated15:40
draciemore like a second15:40
colonelcrayon -> "Reiserfs, as far as I can tell, performs a minimal sanity check on its internal tree every mount - this makes Reiserfs slow to mount. There's no way around it, as far as I know"15:40
draciebut longer than i usually noticed15:40
draciei hate installing boot loaders because i suck at it15:40
treachI haven't used reiser for quite some time, but I remember the very first mount taking a while, but then they would mount instantaneously...15:41
treachI guess partitions were smaller back then. :D15:41
dracieyeah i'll try lilo15:41
taariI'm already glad about coming back to Crux if I get my new box15:42
dracieI hate my hardware lol15:42
draciecrappy screen, and crapy disk layout15:42
colonelcrayoni hate my wireless adapter ;)15:43
taariwhich one?15:43
taarihad some troubles with iwl4965 and the firmware until I changed to 2.6.2715:44
draciecan i safely remove grub just by removing the grub files?15:44
taariI would prefer doing it using the packet management tools15:44
ahmrahtcheerthat's one thing i can't gripe about; the hardware.  i bought this ThinkPad T21 (256mb RAM, 800MHz P3mobile, 20gb hdd) off ebay a month or so ago, for a song and a dance.15:44
ahmrahtcheerand my desktop box, which i assembled to compile faster is almost a gamer's rig.15:44
treachtaari: make your own ports then. ;)15:45
taariahmrahtcheer: :D15:45
colonelcrayonthinkpads are the best15:45
dracieI think i am going to host some videogame ports15:45
taaritreach: to speak the truth, I alrady had a very little repo 2 years ago.. guess I could still use that one15:45
ahmrahtcheerthis is my 2nd thinkpad, and won't be my last, barring unforeseen financial circumstances15:46
* taari nods while typing on his X61s15:46
draciewe need xbil woot15:46
taaritreach: :P15:46
* treach looks angrily at his cat. "Damned cable-chewer"15:47
dracieis there a qemu port for crux?15:47
ahmrahtcheeran online buddy just ordered a TP do you like yours?15:47
tilmandon't ask us, ask the ports db:
treachtaari: heh, looks like a manageble one. ;)15:47
dracielol ok  iwill stop being lazy15:47
taaritreach: yea, I will polish it in the future ;-)15:48
ahmrahtcheertreach, i'll swap you the cat for 9 puppies...15:48
treachahmrahtcheer: nah, it's ok. :P15:48
colonelcrayonqemu is good, and there is a port15:49
draciewtf is there this read-only veriable in the lilo.conf, i don't need that right?15:50
treachit's ok.15:50
* taari nods15:51
draciehmm i am using lilo now15:51
dracielets seee if it boots15:52
colonelcrayoni love the crux handbook.  some of the best documentation i've seen for any distro!15:52
dracieyeah its really useful15:52
ahmrahtcheerit's nicely concise and to the point.15:52
dracieoops i got bad fstab formatting though15:53
ahmrahtcheertime for dracie to revel in a new plateau of speed from an OS. :)15:53
draciethat was a fast boot15:53
dracie10 seconds?15:53
draciefaster than gentoo15:53
draciew/ genkernel15:53
ahmrahtcheerdracie, CRUX is the fastest OS i've ever used, even faster than damnsmalllinux or puppy linux when they're running from ramdisk15:54
ahmrahtcheerwait'll you see how fast OOo loads :)15:55
taari'fast' is relative.. and saying a distro is the fastest ever used just because of a quick boot would be foolish ;-)15:55
draciewill i piss my pants?15:55
ahmrahtcheeryou'll be pleasantly surprised15:55
ahmrahtcheertaari, i know :)15:56
draciesweet i compiled my kernel correctly with networking on both  my ethernet cards15:56
taaricompiled kernel for the first time? :)15:57
dracielike 3rd time15:57
Rotwangyoure pr0 now15:57
draciefirst kernel i acutally booted that i compiled15:57
dracieactaully 2nd15:57
draciebut yeah15:57
ahmrahtcheer3rd time? it took me an even dozen tries before i compiled a usable kernel15:58
taariyea, my first results were quite terrible too ;-)15:58
draciei think its because i read a lot before i try stuff15:58
ahmrahtcheeri had no clue as to what i was doing. :)15:58
draciedid you disable ELF executables?15:58
dracieor w/e its called?15:58
ahmrahtcheeruh huh15:58
taariguess Linux would be no fun without it :P15:58
dracieor get this, forgetting ext2 or 3 fs support when / is ext315:59
ahmrahtcheeri accessed every help txt that make menuconfig offered15:59
dracielolo can't even run init w/ not elf15:59
draciei love the help option15:59
treachwhat? Isn't disabling ELF a basic security measure? :p15:59
taariit should be!15:59
colonelcrayonthanks for all the help.  i'll probably back after [hopefully] installing crux tomorrow.  i like this irc channel :)16:00
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dracieis there a command line browsers out of the box in crux?16:01
treachno, we don't do basics... :>16:01
treach(there are in the ports though)16:01
draciethats the first thing i will install16:01
draciei love my links16:01
dracielinks2 in X is bliss16:02
dracieespecially on slow systesm16:02
Rotwangfirst apps i always install first is elinks and irssi16:02
taariand vim for configuring the other stuff16:02
Rotwangvim is shipped w/ iso iirc16:03
* ahmrahtcheer keeps mouth firmly shut in regards vim16:03
taariah, ok16:03
taariahmrahtcheer: why? ;)16:03
draciei use nano because i am not too good with vim16:03
dracieknow the basics though16:03
taarivimtutor is your friend ;->16:04
dracieyeah i have sued it16:04
Rotwangi usually use vi (less colours)16:04
ahmrahtcheeri just can't use it...i prefer nano or pico.  their command set is almost identical to a message editor plugin for the BBS software i used to run, back in the old days.16:04
tilmandid you win?16:04
draciei am learning emacs too16:04
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dracieyou know pico is usually an alias in linux systems?16:04
dracieto nano16:05
ahmrahtcheerdracie, caution:  the flame wars between vim and emacs users have assumed legendary proportions.16:05
draciewell its simple, vim is for editing files, emacs is for goofing off16:05
dracieemacs games woot16:05
ahmrahtcheeremacs tends to bleed RAM, though16:06
dracieoh it is leaker?16:06
ahmrahtcheerone of my online buddies can rant for an hour on that subject.16:06
draciegrrr i am a silly goat, someone tell me a quick line that will install a text browser16:07
taaribut back to pico/nano.. are they the same or not? I know pico was the editor for CLI MUA.. pine? And I guess people liked it and built nano by improving pico.. or maybe that is all wrong.16:07
draciepico was the propietary version16:07
tilmannano is Free16:07
dracienano is a clone16:07
ahmrahtcheeryeah, pico was bundled with pine16:07
taariI see16:07
draciemac os x has pico16:07
taarigood to know ;)16:07
treachpico/nano is pretty limited though.16:08
dracieyeah i had to read about it16:08
tilmanproprietary? nah, just under a restrictive license afaik16:08
dracienano is just for beginners16:08
ahmrahtcheeri can't remember which US university supported pine/pico16:08
dracieor people who are comfortable with a more simplistic system16:08
tilmanahmrahtcheer: washington?16:08
tilmannot 100% sure though16:08
ahmrahtcheernow pine is called alpine and iirc, pico is no longer packaged with it.16:09
draciehmm i am so lost with package installtion16:09
ahmrahtcheertilman, u. of washington sounds right16:09
taariguess tilman is right. pico can't be proprietary since it was bundled with pine which was free (more or less)16:09
tilmandracie: didn't you praise the handbook 5 minutes ago? :D16:09
dracieyeah it sucks reading it in ffox 2.x on a slow mac16:09
treachthat thread should be mandantory reading for new users. :>16:10
taaribtw. do you need any translations or something for your work? English -> German that is16:10
draciei just space and shift+space or pgup/pgdn to scroll because its too sluggish for moding less than one page at a time16:10
taariokay ;-)16:10
draciethis is annoying crux doesn't have twm by default so when i start x it has no window manipatuion16:12
tilmancrux ships with openbox, which is infinitely more useful than twm16:12
treachblackbox, right?16:13
draciebut that means i have to edit .xseeions or w/e that file is called16:13
tilmanit's blackbox in 2.416:13
taariand will be fluxbox in 2.5? ;-p16:13
tilmanonly 2.5 has openbox :)16:13
draciefluxbox really isn't hat useful16:13
dracieopenbox is nice16:13
treachdracie: I think the rationale is that if you can't set up .xsession or .xinitrc correctly, you have no business with crux.16:14
treachor something like that.16:14
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taariI don't want an own tool just for the panel, so I prefer fluxbox ;-)16:14
dracielol i just don't really want to look at more xample files16:14
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draciei have done it before, but i just want to configure the masses of it later16:14
dracielazy i am16:14
treachlazy people -> ubuntu16:15
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dracielol not that lazy16:15
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draciebasically i am getting fed up of mac os x and a slow computer16:15
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draciefor refrence for installtion16:15
treachosx, slow computer. sounds like a good mix. :>16:16
draciewhich reminds me, is crux ppc stable enough?16:16
* treach spins the beachball16:16
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treachno idea, we have very little interaction with those people.16:16
dracielol it doesn't do it that much16:16
surrounderdracie: ran quite ok on my g4 12" powerbook16:16
dracieg3 12' iboot16:16
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dracie300 MHz16:17
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treachacrux is probablyt the guy to ask regarding ppc.16:17
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dracieand the graphics chip isn't even used in mac os x on the original ibook16:17
dracieso no hardware drived quartz16:17
taariis Crux PPC still continued? :o16:18
draciei mean its CPU that draws shadows16:18
Rotwangtaari: yes16:18
taarivery cool16:18
Rotwangtaari: there was new release announced not so long ago16:18
draciedoes it have support for the wifi cards these macs have?16:18
taariCrux Alpha would be cool too, but I guess there are far too few interested people for it16:21
taarithe main one (x86) should have highest priority anyway16:21
draciehmmm maybe I forgot to install window maker, the command starts with a w right?16:21
treachmmh, plus that alpha is totally dead.16:21
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taarisome people still own these old but dead sexy API CS20 servers ;)16:22
dracieyup oops16:22
Rotwangdracie: if your not sure what is the command look at the footprint16:22
treachin the portdir16:23
Rotwangdracie: or look into package ;]16:23
Rotwangthere are so many ways ;}16:23
dracielol yeah i have much to learn about crux packagemanagement16:23
Rotwangand im running out of wine :<16:24
treachwinedebug Rotwang16:24
taaridracie: you'll learn that it is quite simple which makes it superior to all other distros ;->16:24
treachstack error:0xbadbeef16:24
taariraptor from antifork?16:25
dracieok, it looks simple, but like everything, you have to learn16:25
Rotwangstack error:0xnoalcohol16:25
taariah, it was deadbeaf16:25
dracieeww there is nothing in my /usr/ports16:26
Rotwangports -u ?16:26
dracielol sorry aboujt my stupidity16:27
taariis there some important field where the Crux team needs help? I'm just curious.16:34
treachports, testing, patching... where do you want to start? :>16:36
dracieI myself will do some ports i think16:36
taariguess I'll start with refreshing my old repo.. and you mean testing other ports?16:37
treachyeah. there are always things to do. there's currently 2.5-rc2 that is up for grabs.16:38
draciesweet that was easy, just have openbox-session in my .xinitrc and weee16:38
treachsome ports still doesn't build on it, like virtualbox iirc.16:38
treachI think sepen asked for pointers on that one.16:38
dracienext thing i need to do is get ati fglrx on here, otherwise my refresh rate sucks16:39
taaritreach: ah, I see16:39
Rotwangdracie: this might be problematic16:39
Rotwangcontrib/ati doesnt work w/ opt/xorg16:40
Rotwangkernel >=2.6.2716:40
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Rotwangtoo iirc16:40
treachsee? there's a task right there ;)16:40
Rotwangyou need xorg-server 1.4.216:40
dracieso i have the wrong kernel version and xorg version16:41
Rotwangtreach: there is a solution16:41
Rotwanggl-select needs patching16:41
treachI was kidding, for the biggest part.16:41
Rotwangbut the progress in this case seem to be frozen16:41
Rotwangdracie: get the xorg server 1.4.2 port from git16:42
Rotwangkernel 2.6.26 or older16:42
draciefor fglrx?16:43
Rotwangand contrib/ati will build ;]16:43
Rotwangdracie: yes16:43
dracieok looks like i need to upgrade my kernel, and xorg16:43
Rotwangor patch gl-select and use port from flyspray16:43
draciefirst option sounds a lot clearner16:44
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draciefglrx wouldn't be as much as a problem if i didn't have this CRT16:46
taaridracie: didn't you just upgrade to the current kernel?16:46
dracielol nope16:46
draciedidn't want to fuss with that yet16:46
taariah :)16:47
draciebut now i do yay!16:47
dracieso should i just grab the 2.6.26 or later kernel source from
taariNOT later than 2.6.2616:50
Rotwangdracie: i built ati w/ 2.6.2616:50
draciebut from right?16:50
Rotwangit wont build with 2.6.27 iirc16:50
Rotwangdracie: yes ;]16:50
draciehmmm how do you add users in crux, adduser isn't installed16:51
treachuseradd :>16:51
dracieoh lol16:51
draciei forgetz xD16:51
treachwhoever created adduser should be flogged, I always confuse them.16:52
draciei agree16:52
dracieusermod -G groups user is how you add groups to a user right?16:53
Rotwang-a -G16:54
thrice`use -a too16:54
Rotwangotherwise youll overwrite groups16:54
dracieoh hmmm, crux just froze16:54
taariwhile executing usermod?16:55
dracieissued a xrandr --output default --mode 1152x864 -r 7616:55
draciechanged rez but it froze then16:55
treachwelcome to the world of buggy graphics drivers.16:55
draciethats vesa i'm pretty sure16:56
treach1152x864 is no vesa resolution16:56
draciethe stupid gentoo live cd automatically sets up my x with ati drivers, the open stuff, and so X sdoesn't start and i ahve to fix it16:56
dracieoh that must be the reason16:56
draciemy main user should have groups audio video wheel... what else16:57
treachdialout. ubuntu, debian and suse keep telling me that's extremely important.16:58
treachso I guess that's a must have. :>16:58
draciewtf i don't even have a modem16:59
dracielol i love my fast broadband16:59
dracieany other common user groups i missed?16:59
treachnot that I can think of.16:59
treachanyway, you'll notice if you did. :>17:00
draciequick question, is there a way to string all the groups you want to add  on one line of usermod17:00
dracieyeah on arch linux i forgot to add audio to my user17:00
Rotwangdracie: ues17:00
Rotwangusermod -a -G group1 group2 group3 user17:00
draciehuh that didn't work17:01
treachlog out17:01
RotwangRotwang: use coma instead of spaces17:01
Rotwangusermod -a -G group1,group2,group3 user17:01
dracieoh hey i learned something new woot17:01
taariis hanb still here sometimes?17:04
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draciewoot i am ahppy now, i got my evilwm17:06
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draciebut it froze again with 1024x76817:08
taariI'm not really into X.. anything useful in the standard logs? daemon.log, Xorg.log, syslog?17:11
draciedoesn't bother me right now, i'll worry about it after i get fglrx up17:11
draciehow do i display statistics on a certian user like home and stuff17:11
Rotwangyou mean environmental variables?17:12
dracielol i forgot about home silly me17:12
taarior "echo -e ~" :P17:13
dracieyeah i didn't realize making a home directory wasn't done when you change a users home directory17:14
draciedamn i hate static ip17:19
draciewhen you have other clients that use dhcp that steal your ip17:20
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Rotwangaaaand im out of the alcohol :<17:22
dracie_aww sad face17:22
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cruxbot[contrib.git/2.4]: linux_logo: 5.03 -> 5.0417:49
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cruxbot[contrib.git/2.5]: medit: 0.9.3 -> 0.9.418:11
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Draciehey what program do you guys use to set the root window wallpaper in wm's like openbox, fluxbox, or evilwm20:20
rastajamesDracie: look no further than feh ;)20:23
Draciei got another q, because of sourceforge's dns issues i addedd the line in the crux wiki to /etc/hosts - how do i find a closer mirror20:25
Draciewhen i tried to dl a file of sourceforge and select a different mirror it wouldn't pop up that menu (i think its a flash thingy) so yeah20:25
Dracieso i could see the name of the mirror.20:25
rastajamesDracie: remove the line from your /etc/hosts and ping and add that ip20:38
Draciesame ip anyways20:40
rastajamesmy entry >> dl.sourceforge.netoptusnet20:41
Dracieok, mine was the same ip on the wiki so i didn't need to change it20:41
Draciegrrr footprints eat cookies20:41
Dracierastajames what wm do you use?20:43
rastajamesDracie: was using awesome switched to openbox20:43
rastajamesmight build enlightenment sometime :)20:43
Draciethen you must be enlightened20:44
Dracieevilwm and xfce are my favs20:44
Dracieunfortunately i am getting issues building xfce420:44
Dracieprobably easily fixed20:44
Draciei am just lazy20:45
rastajameshmm what kinda issues ?20:45
Draciefootprint mismatch, it said on the wiki it can or cannot be a problem20:45
Dracieactually nevermind20:47
Dracieits compiling now20:47
Dracienevermind lol20:47
Draciei thought i twas20:47
rastajamesDracie: footprint mismatches just mean a package has been update20:48
rastajamesi would advice to check the footprint though20:48
Draciethat was the issue20:48
rastajamesDracie: just update it20:59
rastajamesit becomes a problem when the footprint is a big list21:00
rastajamespkgmk -uf21:00
Dracieoh, i have to make that conf file21:00
rastajamespkgmk.conf ?21:00
Draciehah, i never looked at the page, silly me21:02
Draciewhat is the makecommand command?21:05
Draciei don't have it21:05
rastajamesDracie: add that to your prt-get.conf21:06
rastajamesto enable fakeroot21:06
Dracieoh teehee21:06
rastajameslets you build ports as user instead of root21:06
rastajamesfor those nasty ports ;)21:06
rastajameswell "root"21:06
rastajamesDracie: np21:11
rastajamesalso you might want to set you CFLAGS and CXXFLAGS in pkgmk.conf21:11
Dracieso do i rum that pkgmk -uf as super user, my user, or pkgmk21:12
Dracieok thats cool, so i can do SMP compiling, and athlon 64 opts21:12
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Draciestill says Pkgfile not found21:14
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rastajamesDracie: you have to be in port directory. or use prt-get depinst uf foo21:15
rastajamesand Athlon should be CFLAGS="-march=k8 -O2 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer"21:16
Dracieu sure?  its athlon 6421:17
rastajamesCFLAGS="-march=k8 -O2 -pipe"21:18
rastajamesif your building ports for 64bit21:18
Draciei am in 32 bit21:18
rastajamesthen the former21:18
Draciehmmm not shared-mime-info didn't install right21:19
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Dracieis -O3 safe enough for desktop use?21:26
rastajamesDracie: ideally you want to be using -O2, its safer than -O321:33
Draciek by default it builds with -O221:34
Draciei want athlon-xp for the march21:35
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Dracie not sure what this error means21:37
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rastajamesDracie: you got both automake and libtool installed ?21:39
Dracielets see21:40
rastajamesbtw you on 2.5-rc2 or 2.4 ?21:40
Draciei have yet to upgrade my kernel to 2.6.2621:40
Dracieyeah they both are installed21:41
Draciehmm looks like i am going to make my own package of xbil21:42
rastajamesDracie: does   /usr/share/libtool/config/config.guess21:44
rastajamesexist ?21:45
Draciethere is no /usr/share/libtool/config directory21:45
Dracie/usr/share/libtool/config.guess exists21:46
rastajamesah yea that sorry21:46
Dracieyeah i have no clue what i am doing lol21:48
rastajameshmm ill build it here and see if it builds21:48
Dracienow gimp is being a baby lol21:48
Dracieit has a footprint issue on glib21:48
rastajamesbuilds fine here <<21:49
Dracieso i did that thing21:49
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rastajamesDracie: what are you trying to install ?21:51
Dracieand gimp21:51
Draciebut lets focus on xfce21:51
rastajamesk. have you setup the xfce repo ?21:52
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rastajamesso issued something like prt-get depinst xfce4 --install-scripts /21:53
rastajamesand compilation fails on shared-mime-info ?21:53
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jdolancan anyone recommend a VPS provider that will support Trac, svn, mailman, and that sort of thing?21:55
Dracierastajames what kernel are you using?21:58
rastajamesDracie: still on the old been meaning to bump that up as soon as i get some time on my hands  ;)21:59
Dracie2.6.23.9 here too21:59
Draciefrom install21:59
Dracieso yeah21:59
Draciei thought it might of been a kernel version issue21:59
rastajamesDracie: nope21:59
rastajamesDracie: try rebuilding automake22:00
Draciewhat command to issue?22:00
rastajamesprt-get update -fr automake22:00
rastajamesalso update libtool22:01
rastajamesdidnt realise you were on 2.4, when you said latest thought you meant 2.5-rc222:01
Draciewell the latest in the master server lastest iso link22:02
Dracieyeah it still fails22:02
rastajamessame error ?22:02
Draciewoot upgrading firefox to 322:03
rastajameshehe good luck22:03
Draciewas hard?22:03
rastajamesnope. just takes a while ;). Qt4 even worser22:05
Dracieit failed btw22:05
Dracie./configure: line 11993: cd: /usr/lib/xulrunner-devel- No such file or directory22:06
Dracieconfigure: error: /sdk/include/xpcom-config.h doesn't exist22:06
Dracie=======> ERROR: Building '/home/pkgmk/packages/firefox#3.0.4-1.pkg.tar.gz' failed.22:06
Dracieu using kde 4?22:06
thrice`prt-get listinst | grep xulrunner ?22:06
rastajamesDracie: nope22:06
Dracieno hits22:07
rastajamesDracie: you need to install xulrunner22:07
Dracieam right now22:07
thrice`use prt-get depinst blah22:07
rastajamesprt-get depinst xulrunner22:07
Draciei know22:07
rastajamesah yea what thrice` said :-)22:07
Dracieunderstood that much22:07
Dracieoh it failed lol22:07
Draciebut i got it22:08
Dracieneed to upgrade cairo freetype2 fontconfig22:08
Draciefor pixman where should i get it from22:13
Draciethere are three pixman things in he ports22:13
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