IRC Logs for #crux Tuesday, 2008-12-16

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nipuLclose your eyes and throw a dart at your display00:35
rastajamesnipuL: lol00:48
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pitill0good morning01:11
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nipuLhaha, it's tru the sticky tape over your brother ink trick works03:26
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nipuLwth, apple owns cups now?03:34
ahmrahtcheeruh huh03:37
ahmrahtcheeri noticed that a couple of months ago03:37
nipuLno sir, i don't like it03:38
nipuLevil companies buying out foss projects03:38
ahmrahtcheernot sure i do, either, but i rather doubt Mr. Jobs will listen to me.03:38
nipuLatleast cups is gpled03:38
ahmrahtcheernow if apple would just GPL quicktime03:39
nipuLit's more worrying when mit/bsd projects get bought out03:39
nipuLbut that's the price you pay for freedom03:39
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ahmrahtcheero/ RedShift05:27
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giovann1boys I have a little requestion...I don't find anything on google....05:35
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giovann1when i install a program to crux05:35
giovann1for example i have install adobereader...but in my kde i don't find him in menu list05:36
sepen@Google .desktop files05:37
clbsepen: Search took 0.14 seconds: Desktop Entry Specification: <>; Desktop Entry Specification: <>; - Software/ desktop - file -utils: <>; The Desktop Files : The Truth about Defragmentation: (1 more message)05:37
sepengiovann1, use google in private05:37
giovann1i know  there is a file that associat05:37
sepengiovann1, so you need to read now05:37
sepen<giovann1> boys I have a little requestion...I don't find anything on google....05:38
giovann1now read but i hope to understand what I do...lol05:38
sepenI found it in google05:38
giovann1yes sorry05:38
sependon't worry is not a problem for me05:39
giovann1i don't find anything of specific05:39
giovann1ok i try05:39
sepenthen you should search 'how to search' in google05:39
sepenI think I waste more time if I wait for people to answer my question on a non-specific channel05:40
sepenI used to use google as the first place to look for something05:41
rastajamessepen: *used to use*05:42
rastajameswhats there apart from google ? :P05:42
rastajamesWe use 'used to' for something that happened regularly in the past but no longer happens.05:44
rastajamesthought you were implying that you no longer use google as the first place for information05:44
ahmrahtcheerand you'll see me use "fixin' to" which is a Texanism/Southernism meaning "getting ready to"05:45
rehabdolli use uncyclopedia.org05:45
ahmrahtcheerooohhhh....have you ever looked up "kitten huffing" in it?05:46
rehabdolli have now05:46
sepenrastajames, hmmm good point05:47
sepenin th epast buyt no longer happens ... .I never will use google05:48
sepenrastajames, s/used to/use to/ -> use to use05:49
rastajamesfor some strange reason i think kde has something to do with this
rastajamessepen: lol.05:49
rehabdoll <- never gets old05:55
sepenrehabdoll, cool!05:56
ahmrahtcheerone of my personal favorites:
rastajames"Reverse Racism is just like racism, but in reverse. That is, instead of one person hating an entire race, an entire race hates one person"06:00
RedShift+1 for the shoe throwing man06:01
ahmrahtcheeri liked Bush Jr better when he was our state far as i could tell he didn't do a damn thing, and generally speaking a politician that does nothing is infinitely preferable to a politician who does something.06:02
RedShiftbrb, screwing with my network config06:07
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rehabdollyoure texan?06:09
ahmrahtcheerrehabdoll, yep, a Texas redneck06:10
rehabdollhe did managed to execute loads of people though06:10
rehabdolldeath penalty.. its so 3rd world06:10
sepenahmrahtcheer, imho also the funniest was when Bush was coupled with Aznar06:15
ahmrahtcheery'all have to realize that i didn't vote for him, except when he was running for governor.  i'm a libertarian, so his views on most things are antithetical to mine.06:18
ahmrahtcheerer... are opposite to mine.06:18
ahmrahtcheeramerican libertarianism can be briefly explained thusly:  the government should a) deliver the mail, b) maintain the roads, c) defend the country against outside aggression, d) otherwise leave its citizens the hell alone.06:20
ahmrahtcheerdang...killed the channel again06:23
sepenc) =?06:28
sepenATM the first county aggressions in the world are caused by bush06:28
sepen*err country06:29
ahmrahtcheersepen, i think the US needs to re-adopt it's isolationistic stance last held before WWI06:32
sepen*isonlationistic .. hehe06:32
sepensorry *isolationistic06:33
rehabdollno need for that. just stop invading every other country :>06:41
ahmrahtcheerno, i think strict isolationism is necessary to avoid foreign entanglements.06:43
rastajamesgoing to get some sleep. night06:44
ahmrahtcheer'nite rastajames06:44
rehabdolltime to do some xmas shoppin'06:46
ahmrahtcheerhave fun!06:47
* ahmrahtcheer is very glad the girlfriend is Jewish. it lets him ignore christmas 06:47
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alexandr87i installed crux on vmware07:51
alexandr87i configure vmware and add host-only network adapter07:52
alexandr87but crux can't find them07:52
alexandr87it has not /dev/eth* files07:52
alexandr87i use default kernel configuration07:53
rehabdollyou wont ever find anything in /dev/eth*07:58
rehabdollsince they never exist07:58
alexandr87and how i can populate it07:58
rehabdollmake sure the crux-kernel load the virtual vmware nic07:58
alexandr87how i can do it?07:59
rehabdollnever used vmware so cant help you there, but you should find it in vmware's docs07:59
rehabdollbingo :>07:59
alexandr87i try this07:59
cruxbot[opt.git/2.4]: [notify] opera: updated to 9.6308:00
jaegerit uses the pcnet32 driver if I remember right08:16
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alexandr87jaeger : thanks, i try it now08:16
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alexandr87jaeger : dev file not created08:27
rehabdollthere are never eth* devices in /dev08:28
jaegeralexandr87: rehabdoll is right08:30
jaegercheck the output from 'dmesg' to see if it showed up08:31
alexandr87i'm not advansed in linux08:31
alexandr87i have forcedeth.c: Reverse Engineered nForce ethernet driver. Version 0.60 in dmesg output08:33
alexandr87and sit0 device in ifconfig -a08:34
jaegerwhat does 'lspci | grep -i ethernet' show you?08:34
alexandr87jaeger : yes Pcnet32 LANCE08:34
jaegerdoes pcnet32 show up in 'lsmod' ?08:35
alexandr87i compiled it directly08:35
alexandr87into the kernel08:35
cruxbot[xfce.git/2.4]: ristretto: updated to 0.0.21 and added README file08:36
jaegerhrmm, ok. did it show up in dmesg? forcedeth is a different driver08:36
alexandr87may be try compile as module?08:39
jaegerI'd recommend going back and checking the kernel config again08:39
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rehabdollyou might get a more verbose output if you compile it as a module08:46
klickAnyone having trouble getting Xorg/Xcursor themes working? It does load it from ~/.icons/default.08:54
alexandr87When i compile new kernel, i must execute lilo to update loader or not?08:55
klickof course08:56
surrounderif you use lilo then yes08:56
alexandr87that was a problem08:56
alexandr87early i use grub08:56
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alexandr87thanks for all09:00
alexandr87espessialy to jaeger09:00
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klickWie, I got it working. :)09:04
* treach finally got his laptop up running again, muwahahahaha09:05
klickThat's right, don't let the bitch die and have it's final rest. Have it suffer a few more years.09:06
ahmrahtcheerhehe, i have a P2 ThinkPad that i'm going to fix up for my kids to use, and a P3 TP that i'm using right now.09:07
treachactually, it was my cat that tried to retire it.. and it took a long time for me to get the cable fixed again.09:07
ahmrahtcheerthe boys had a noname brand Pentium lappy that i installed linux on, but it died09:08
ahmrahtcheeri know about cats and computers...we have 8 cats09:08
aonmy cat is more against radios than computers09:09
treachthis one is a bit special. He chews cables like there's no tomorrow.09:09
treachhe cut the powercord to my tp between the brick and the computer. He's also chewed right through a cat5 cable, the type with solid leaders.09:10
ahmrahtcheerwe have 7 puppies right now who have to be kept away from the cables, else they're liable to sink those sharp little puppy teeth into a power cable which would result in a severely borked puppy09:10
treachahmrahtcheer: heh, the cat of one of my friends did that. Amazingly he made it, but he got zinged quite a bit. :D09:11
treachie. no serious injuires but a funny smell and some curled whiskers. :p09:12
treachanyway. afk, bbl09:12
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taariI use dhclient to get a local IP from my router which is connected to the internet. Now I could surf. But I also want to connect to a VPN from my uni, because some sites are only available from there. I connect to it (set the route) using pppd. (It's a Microsoft VPN implementation with MPPE voodoo.) Is it possible to use both at the same time with one NIC?10:10
cruxbot[contrib.git/2.5]: xalan-c: fixed compilation error (thanks to Mauricio Faria de Oliveira)10:11
treachtaari: I've never tried anything like that but maybe you could do something with virtual interfaces?10:11
taariNever worked with virtual devices, but I look it up ;)10:12
* treach wonders what's up with python. :/10:13
treachCompiling ... zipfile.py10:13
treach"make: [libinstall] Error 1"10:14
treachhighly informative. :/10:14
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taariPython or py3k?10:14
taariI had quite some troubles with py3k10:14
treachpython 2.6.110:15
tilmantreach: "10:17
tilman"I plan on releasing the current unstable bits as a stable release this week."10:17
tilmanbtrfs dude10:18
teKoracle best practice10:18
treachI think, I'll stay with jfs for now at least ;)10:19
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rehabdollim running ext4 on my rootfs :)10:23
ahmrahtcheerrehabdoll, have you done any comparisons yet, say against ext3 or reiserfs?10:24
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cruxbot[opt.git/2.5]: cairo: updated to
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rehabdollnah, i'll leave that to the experts10:34
ahmrahtcheeri'm interested in ext4, just not real sure how reliable it is, yet10:36
ahmrahtcheeri don't do windows, am entirely *nix and most of my serious work is done in linux, so losing a partition could be pretty catastrophic.10:37
treachthat's why you're supposed to keep backups. ;)10:37
ahmrahtcheer:P that's why i want to set up a RAID 110:38
tilmani'll probably try btrfs in raid1 mode10:38
treachmeh, I think raid1 is a bit overrated.10:39
treachit doesn't protect you against silent corruption, which is one of the more common faults.10:39
ahmrahtcheerwhat would you recommend then, RAID-wise?  RAID 2?10:40
treachnot fun to discover that you not only have one disc full of crap, but *two*. :>10:40
ahmrahtcheer2 backups, 2 'striped'?10:41
treach5, 6 or 10, depending on budget/need. :p10:41
ahmrahtcheerwell there goes that idea...10:41
* ahmrahtcheer is on a tight budget10:41
treachnote that raid *never* replaces real backups10:41
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.5]: xorg-xcb-util: updated to
ahmrahtcheer>.<  why do spanish speaking people always assume that, because i live in Texas, i must know spanish?10:44
tilmanahmrahtcheer: hola que tal? feliz navidad y un bien ano nuevo :D10:45
treachbecause they assume everyone living in tx is an illegal immigrant? :p10:45
tilmannot everyone10:45
ahmrahtcheeri speak a *little* northern Texas "tex-mex" or spanglish...which usually sends true spanish speakers into paroxysms of laughter10:45
tilmanjust the grownups10:45
ahmrahtcheertilman, bueno, gracias.  feliz Channukah a tu, y un bien ano nuevo.10:46
ahmrahtcheery tu?10:46
tilmanhalblas espanol muy bien :D10:47
ahmrahtcheertilman, donde vive?10:47
tilmanwhat's "today" in spanish? i forgot :(10:48
tilmanvive_s_, creo :D10:48
* treach wonders if his laptop is feeling alright..10:49
ahmrahtcheeri don't remember "today" either.10:49
DarkNekrostilman, today==hoy ;)10:49
treachI keep getting more or less random "internal compiler errors". :/10:49
tilmanah, great10:49
tilmanso hoy he estado mi ultima dia de trabajo para 200810:50
ahmrahtcheeri learned tex-mex because i had to know it when working on the ambulancia10:50
tilmantreach: you win a free memtest run ;)10:50
ahmrahtcheeri haven't made an ambulance run in 12 years10:50
DarkNekrostilman, s/he estado/ha sido ;)10:50
treachtilman: yeah. eventually. :/10:50
tilmanDarkNekros: thank you10:51
DarkNekrostilman, you're welcome ("de nada") ;)10:52
tilmani know "de nada" of course!10:52
ahmrahtcheertilman, comprendo, pero no hablo espanol sufficient to answer... :/10:52
ahmrahtcheertilman, you're going on christmas holidays or are you taking a vacation?10:53
tilmanare you asking whether my vacation coincides with the midwinter celebrations? :P10:56
tilmanit doesn't10:57
tilmani mean it's not a coincidence :D10:57
giovann1to show the progrma tha i have install i must create a file .desktop right?11:05
giovann1e insert in /urs/share/apps/konqueror/servicemenus11:06
giovann1of course show in menu bar desktop or a icon11:06
ahmrahtcheergiovann1, i can't help you there, because i don't use KDE11:12
treachkde should recognize .desktop files. I'm sure google knows all the details11:14
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DarkNekrosgiovann1, try the KDE channel ;)11:23
DarkNekrosgiovann1, #kde-italia would be the best ;)11:24
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giovann1ok i try11:27
giovann1i think that is file .desktop11:27
DarkNekrosgiovann1, I don't use kde sorry ;)11:28
ahmrahtcheerfluxbox or windowmaker, no strong preference either way11:28
treachwindowmaker is nice, but it's beginning to show its age. Not much life around it either anymore.11:31
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ahmrahtcheeryeah, it is starting to show its age.  it still has some neat features, though.  fluxbox has a lot of nice bits packed into a small package11:33
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cruxbot[contrib.git/2.5]: gamin: release bump12:28
cruxbot[contrib.git/2.5]: wbar: fixed config file permissions12:28
cruxbot[opt.git/2.5]: pango: updated to
cruxbot[opt.git/2.5]: gtk: updated to
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taariit's not always an advantage that everyone can edit wikis: O.o13:20
treach[citation needed] :>13:22
Rotwanghi sepen may i priv you?13:23
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ahmrahtcheertaari, i know an israeli who has admin access to wikipedia.  she got that entry fixed...13:43
taarioi, thanks ahmrahtcheer13:44
taarilooking at the 'recent changes' site it seems that this article is often a victim of cyber-vandalism :o13:45
treachhow unexpected. :>13:45
ahmrahtcheeryeah, i've read about that some.  it makes randomly browsing wikipedia much less fun.13:46
treachwell, it's not like even an un-vandalised wp on "controversial" subjects is of any real value anyhow.13:47
ahmrahtcheertrue, true13:47
taarisad but true13:47
treach"OMG, let's not offend anyone!!11!"13:48
ahmrahtcheeras long as it's truthful, it shouldn't be offensive13:48
treachthe truth is *always* offensive. especially to some13:48
ahmrahtcheeryeah, even old cynics sometimes display the odd streak of idealism13:48
RedShifttaari: that's why we have uncyclopedia13:53
treachahmrahtcheer: I dare you to try getting anything into wikipedia about israel and putting poles/palestinians in ghettos, treating them like the nazis did with people THEY put in ghettos in the 40's, arbitrarily killing civilians and that entire master race shit they are putting on brazen display. Also try to put in any form of critizism against anyone criticizing israel immediately getting labled nazi and antisemite. :>13:54
ahmrahtcheertreach, i know there's a double standard working there...13:55
aonbut some genocides just are more important than others!13:57
taarifree speech:
klickI was told yesterday that CRUX is very lean and that applications only require the least minimum to have a running application. How come xlockmore "requires" fortune4all?  I don't need fortune4all to run xlock...14:22
treachwell, the maintainer thought it was needed.14:23
taariyou're free to edit the Pkgfile and remove the requirement14:24
treachthe noseguy is a bit pointless without fortunes. :p14:24
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klicktreach: I use it to lock my WS not get some darn fortune cookies. :)14:24
klickHe also made it require gtk... jesus...14:25
klicktaari: I've already done so.14:25
treachklick: well, as taari said, you can edit the pkgfile... or investigate the --ignore switch of prt-get14:25
treachInvented for occasions just like this, btw.14:25
taariand if you think it's wrong in general, just speak to the maintainer :)14:26
tilmanor bitch about it on irc14:26
tilmanon wait.14:26
klickWell, xlock wouldn't compile if I used the --ignore switch. Since the Pkgfilm used --with/without flags. :)14:26
klickNext time I will redirect my complaints to the maintainer instead.14:27
jaegerperhaps it's more correct to say crux is as lean as you want it14:30
klickWhy does Radeon suck so bad compared to nvidia?14:31
klickjaeger: Probably more correct.14:31
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jaegerATI hasn't put in the same effort nvidia has for their drivers14:31
klickDamn thing just dies when I ran an GL based xlock screensaver.14:31
RotwangATI == bunch of walruses14:32
klickAMD actually :)14:32
taariand although I like the efforts from NVidia, is questionable if they profited from it14:32
treachati is quite ok.14:32
RedShiftATI = fail, Nvidia = fail14:32
treachat least you're not left high and dry the day they decide they can get away with dropping support for your card.14:33
taariright, VESA 2.0 framebuffer is everything one could ever need :P14:33
* treach is currently on an ati 7500... :>14:33
klickThis is just fucking beautiful... after restarting X after the GL crash I get nothing on monitor 1 and 640x480 on monitor 2.... (it should be 1680x1050 on both)14:33
treachwith 3D! :D14:33
* klick runs Xorg using fbdev 1440x900 on his T6114:34
tilmanfbdev? why?14:34
jaegerfbdev at high resolutions sounds kinda annoying14:34
jaegerbut I haven't done that so maybe I'm wrong14:34
klickWorks just as fine as anyting else as long as you do not want acceleration.14:35
treachlol, glxgears -> ~690 fps14:35
jaegerwe certainly don't need another ati vs. nvidia war, that's been done to death :)14:35
taariI have an Intel X3100 in my Thinkpad.. it's supposed to be 3D-able too.. but I still use VESA14:35
klickfbdev can run in hight bitdepths as well.14:35
jaegerIs it fast enough to be useful?14:35
tilmanwhy would you want acceleration14:36
klickWell, I run xterm and fvwm so it is fast enough for me.14:36
tilmanokay, i fail at sarcasm14:36
jaegertilman: technically that wasn't even a question :)14:36
klickI sometimes run firefox but not that often since I have it running on my laptop instead.14:36
taari(yea, that's the reason I couldn't be arsed to use it until today ;-)14:36
treachtilman: faster scrolling text? ;)14:36
tilmanfaster everything?14:36
jaegerIt's been a long time since I used fbdev but I think even sluggishness moving windows around would drive me nuts14:37
jaegerthat's why I hated the original releases of mac os x14:37
klickThis shit just died completely... vesa here I come.14:37
klicktaari: Will VESA run at 1680x1050?14:37
taariI have a 12" notebook, 1024x768 is enough for me ;>14:38
Rotwangi doubt vesa will run at that resolution ;]14:38
taarioh, thought it was a rhetorical question14:39
Rotwangtrue :/14:40
treachklick: what chip do you have?14:41
taariDo I save a bit of energy when I only use VESA instead of my X3100? (I didn't even compile support for it into the kernel) Or does that make no difference?14:45
Rotwangdamn "in bruges" is pretty boring14:45
taariyes :>14:46
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tilmantaari: are you talking about xf86-video-vesa?14:51
tilmanor what?14:51
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taaritilman: Sorry for the delay. Yes. (Called xserver-xorg-video-vesa here, still use Debian.) But yea.15:16
tilmanthat's insane15:17
taariHmm, although same question with VESA or Intel framebuffer.15:17
taariI know that possible differences can't be massive, but I'm just curious.15:17
tilmanESPECIALLY since the intel driver is pretty good15:17
tilmanwith intel's framebuffer compression, i bet using -vesa makes it draw more power15:18
taariOk, you already convinced me ;->15:18
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klickI think Radeon fucked my computer...16:17
klickMy kernel refuses to boot, it freezes at "BIOS data check successful". You may ask if I have changed the kernel and the answer would be not. I have only screwed around with xorg.conf.16:18
RyoSfrickling with xorg.conf crashes your kernel to boot?16:24
klickNo the xorg.conf file directly but my radeon cards.16:24
treachpresumeably, if he told his graphics card something bad enough it could hold it even over a powercycle.16:25
klickI told it to enter vesa/1024x768 mode...16:25
treachwhat radeon?16:25
klick7000/VE and 9200 Pro16:26
klickI do not want xinerama, but the shit dies if I don't use xinerama.16:27
klickIt does start, eventually, but when I try to restart my WM on one of the monitors everything crashes... not only xorg.16:27
treachmmh, xinerama.. isn't that kind of discouraged nowadays?16:28
treachanyway, multimonitor is a pain no matter which card you're using afaict.16:29
klickPerhaps, I don't care since I do not want it either way. :)16:29
klickI've used nVidia cards and I've never had any trouble with it then.16:29
treachlucky you.16:29
klickYeah, but then I've only used one card. Now I have 2x Radeon.16:30
treachI have an nvidia in my desktop box, and it's a pain to use with kde4, since the driver is really buggy.16:30
tilmantreach: tried nouveau?16:30
treachno, the card is too new for that16:31
klickYeah, I was told in another channel that nVidia has trouble with KDE4 specifically.16:31
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klickBut I don't use KDE.16:31
treachtilman: my thought exactly :P16:31
treachand I don't use multiple graphics cards, so I presume that makes us even.16:32
tilmanmultimonitor doesn't imply pain16:32
tilmanmultiple *cards* might be tricky16:33
tilmansince the bios will only post your primary card and the driver has to try to poke at the 2nd one16:33
klickWell, none of the cards have more than one DVI-out.16:33
klickBoth have 1x VGA and 1x DVI though. But the cards are so sucky I get shit via VGA.16:33
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giovann1boys...I have download kopete.tar.bz2(program to instant messenger) i have extract file in usr/port/kde16:53
giovann1but when i do make install16:53
giovann1i have thi error16:53
giovann1but i don't know where are those libriary16:57
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giovann1and if i do first ./configure i have
giovann1can you help me?16:59
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cruxbot[opt.git/2.5]: sudo: updated to 1.6.9p19, force -j118:11
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rastajamesnipuL: ping22:46
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