IRC Logs for #crux Monday, 2009-03-30

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pitiIIogood morning01:06
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cruxbot[xfce.git/2.5]: libmpd: updated to 0.18.004:41
cruxbot[xfce.git/2.5]: xfmpc: updated to 0.1.004:41
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DarkNekroshi everybody ;)06:26
latitudehello DarkNekros06:27
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cruxbot[xfce.git/2.5]: xfce4-clipman-plugin: updated to 0.9.108:52
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latitudei now know exactly how my box sounds when compiling something big08:59
latitudeit sounds like a vacuum cleaner09:00
latitudea big one09:00
sepenwell you could add a pnp transistor to your box in order to amplificate them (and for vintage sounds)09:07
latitudesepen: sounds good09:09
latitudei need a mic then09:09
latitudewhat will you recommend? )09:10
sepenshure or an old neuman ;D09:10
sepenwell electret is cheaper and could do the trick too09:11
latitudethat sound like crazy rock )09:11
latitudelol, i'll definitely try that, my relatives will go mad and run to africa09:12
cruxbot[contrib.git/2.5]: logrotate: updated to 3.7.809:18
Rotwangsepen: tried new ati?09:19
Rotwangstill doesnt work w/ new xserver :{09:20
Rotwangill look for a patch09:20
sepenI'm still using the old xserver so I need to update it for tests09:21
sepenI'll try to save some time at night or maybe tomorrow09:21
Rotwangill try ubuntoers version09:28
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cruxbot[contrib.git/2.5]: php-pdo-mysql: updated to 5.2.909:39
Rotwangsepen: may i suggest you to put $SRC/tmp into a variable?09:40
Rotwangit would make editing pkgfile much easier09:40
sepenyep, but inittialized to TMPDIR=$SRC/tmp09:41
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Rotwanganother fail :<09:57
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latitude   :.10:39
latitude,;, ';,10:39
latitude'['  [n10:39
latitude     $Y10:39
latitudehow about that, spaceninja?10:39
spaceninjatries, really hard too see something, is it a drop of water coming out of a indian tent? :)10:42
latitudeyeah, it really looks like a crap10:44
latitude _ __10:44
latitude(_)\ \10:44
latitude _  | |10:44
latitude(_) | |10:44
latitude   /_/10:44
latitudethat's better )10:44
Rotwangkayak and two people?10:44
aoncoming down a waterfall :)10:45
* spaceninja thinks his local linux user group has scammed him10:48
spaceninjaor they are just very very slow at getting things done10:48
spaceninjaI payed to get an account to a forum, but I haven't received an email from them, it's been 2 months10:49
spaceninjawasn't a fortune, but still :)10:50
latitudewhat a nice mascot ;)10:52
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spaceninjait's been eating lots of these
Rotwangwroclaw lug seems dead :<11:06
spaceninjasomeday I'll start a lug with a huge library of tech books11:08
* latitude wishes spaceninja to find a huge library of tech books about linux11:14
spaceninjaI live in a very very small city11:15
spaceninjamaybe I need to move11:15
latitudespaceninja: unless you provide us with error log, we'll be of no help :P11:19
latitudeIt's better there, where we are not11:24
latitudei dunno how to translate it better11:25
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cruxbot[opt.git/2.5]: diffstat: updated to 1.47.12:22
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latitudeis there a way to ignore exit code of make in Pkgfile?14:02
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Rotwangset +e or || true14:05
* latitude finds bash set builtin infernal14:06
latitudei like || true14:06
Rotwangset -e wont fail on complex commands14:07
Rotwanglike false || false14:07
Rotwangnot sure if this behaviour isnt modified in bash 414:07
latitudeis bash 4 ready?14:08
latitudewow, indeed14:08
Rotwangor it will fail?14:09
Rotwangand wont in bash 414:09
Rotwangbash 4 is nice imo14:10
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latitudeit seems to me that another perl is coming from the hell )14:14
Rotwangperl 6?14:14
latitudeno, i mean the bash team is adding, and adding, and adding features14:15
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Rotwangoh :]14:15
Rotwangits one person team :]14:15
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latitudeis it?14:16
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Rotwangiirc, yes, chet ramey14:16
spaceninjais prt-get written by crux developers?14:16
Rotwangspaceninja: yes, by cptn iirc14:17
latitudesee, another Larry Wall :D14:18
Rotwanglatitude: but he gets much support from contributors14:18
spaceninjaoh cool14:18
latitudethis feeling again14:19
latitudesomething inside of me is screaming: install the crux14:20
Rotwangsimon says14:22
RotwangGO for it14:22
latitudebtw, how is crux 64 doing?14:22
latitude@seen ecarux14:26
clblatitude: I have not seen ecarux.14:26
latitudeanyone tryed his crux64?14:28
tilmanrehabdoll has pure 64 bit crux stuff, too14:28
Rotwanglatitude: rehabdol is teh main 64 arch person14:28 :p14:29
latitudeyour imagination is truly outstanding14:30
latitudeborkbork is not available14:31
clareplease can someone tell me where to find out how to get xorg working?14:32
tilmanclare: what's wrong?14:32
Rotwangclare: ati?14:32
jaegerclare: depends on the problem, what's up?14:32
tilmanlatitude:, yes14:32
clareI installed crux 2.5, once upon a time I had to do things to index fonts and so on, there does not seem to be any documentation.14:33
claresince you ask I will start up the x and send you the error message14:33 :)14:36
Rotwangreminds me of my commodore 64 ;]14:37
Rotwangthat i dont have any more :<14:38
clareHmm, I dont get an error message any more. due no doubt to trying fixes in the kernel. I do think some hints in the Documentation about the kernel would be really helpful.14:38
clareOnce upon a time I used to be able to get started with the supplied kernel, but since the use of squashfs ( also undocumented) I have been unable to do that.14:38
clarecan anyone explain what it is there for, can it be made use of?14:39
latitudeclare: what's the problem anyway?14:39
latitudethe squashfs is truly unrelated to xorg :)14:39
clareFor me is is realted it is all to do with being unable to read the minds of the team14:40
jaegerclare: squashfs was just used to do some compression on the boot CD, really14:40
jaegeryou can use the kernel config on the CD if you want for a live system, just have to tweak it a bit. make the disk controller support builtin instead of module, that sort of thing14:41
clareso how to I unsquash it to get a usable kernel. This caper of comiling a kernel has got harder and harder as kernel gets changed.14:41
jaegeryou can ignore the squashfs part of the kernel entirely14:41
clareFor example I have had toruble getting moduels to autoload, and found put this mrning that although removed from menuconfig it is nwo always happening.14:42
jaegerthe kernel is patched to allow you to use it but you are not required to after setting up your own system14:42
jaegerI would suggest you find the disk controller and filesystem support you need and make those builtin <*> instead of module <M>14:43
latitudeclare: squashfs is now part of kernel, os don't be scared about it too much14:43
jaegeralmost anything else can be made modular as far as hardware support goes... like sound and network drivers14:43
clareyes, I used always to do that,  modules everywhere, some idea that it would reduce size when not doing whatever; but found modules were not getting loaded.14:45
jaegerWell, unless you used an initial ramdisk (initrd) the modules for your hard disk controller wouldn't have been loaded automatically anyway, I believe14:46
clarethen I found autoload missing from menuconfig so built in everything I could think of.14:46
tilmanmodules load fine for me14:47
tilmani think udev might be helping with that these days14:47
clareNow I find that autoload is standard, so I have to look again as to why I need to load things I never used to have to load.14:47
latitudeclare: how about fs drivers? did you compiled them as modules?14:48
clareBasically I have been so busy on other things I have been left behind on "these days" and am frantically trying to catch up.14:49
jesse_I never understood the business of messing about with initrds...14:49
clarelatitude; no, indeed ext2 I forgot to compile at all :) but I have learned about ways of getting kernel panic.14:49
jesse_Much easier to compile the basics into the kernel, then make the less critical features as modules if you're inclined to do so.14:50
jaegerfor most installed systems an initrd isn't useful14:50
jaegeror at least not necessary14:50
jaegersometimes it's just for aesthetics... bootsplash type thing14:51
* latitude thinks initrd is as much infernal as bash set builtin14:51
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jesse_Initrd just gives me a sense of being an additional layer in the equation.14:52
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jesse_I'm sure it has _some_ benefit in specific situations, it just has not been necessary in my computing use. :p14:53
latitudeclare: so your crux boots ok and ythe problem is not with booting?14:54
jaegerjesse_: one example I can think of is a limited memory embedded device where you might want to load only the modules necessary for that exact hardware... but suppose you have 3 different models and the hardware is just slightly different14:55
jaegerthe initrd would be useful for scanning which hardware is present and only loading the necessary driver14:56
jaegeror suppose your root filesystem is on a SAN or an LVM setup or something where the kernel isn't quite up to the task alone14:57
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clareI think I will go back and try again. (not today I have a day job) and set up my neglected ftp site so i can send logs and stuff for diagnosis. thanks for now,15:01
jaegergood luck15:02
clarejaeger thansk for the notes on initrd15:02
clarebye for now15:02
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Rotwangive had strange thing with keyboard seconds ago15:05
Rotwangi couldnt type, i couldnt backspace etc15:05
Rotwangsome keys were working, some keys were not, some were working differently than they should15:06
Rotwangso i unplugged my connection cable and it returned to normal ;O15:06
Rotwangits true15:06
Rotwangi dont see anything unusual in my logs15:07
rehabdollthe joys of computing15:07
Rotwangincredibly odd15:07
Rotwangi thought that maybe something is trying to hack me ;D15:07
Rotwangbut i dont have sshd nor ntfs15:08
Rotwangall daemons i have running are hald dbus gdm alsa15:08
rehabdollstuff of nightmares:
spaceninjait's just owls :p15:13
DarkNekros_I'm hungry xD15:13
spaceninjaremember to chew15:13
latitudejust like the other things15:14
DarkNekros_thanks spaceninja ;)15:14
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RotwangYart: hi15:18
YartI got a couple questions regarding Crux. I'm downloading it right now but the site is unclear with what really comes with it... unless I'm blind of course. ;)15:19
RotwangYart: crux is source based, but some disagree with yhis statement, blah blah15:20
Rotwangask what do you want to know ;]15:20
YartEh I just wanna know if it has a graphical interface, and which one?15:20
RotwangYart: crux doent have default DE15:21
jaegerI believe only openbox is on the CD as far as window managers15:21
YartAnd isn't that one of those really small and fast ones?15:21
jaegerI'd say it's pretty small and fast but it's not quite as minimal as some like ratpoison, windowlab, evilwm, etc.15:22
YartWell if it isn't a resource hog like KDE or Gnome, I'm sold!15:22
YartI'm downloading the PPC version of CRUX right now for my old G3 iBook, so I'm hoping I get something a little friendlier for this. :)15:23
YartPerformance wise that is.15:23
YartRotwang: DE?15:25
Rotwangdesktop environment15:26
jesse_jaeger: thanks for the initrd explanation. I had some thoughts it did something like that since it has been mentioned in at least the software raid howto.15:29
jaegerjesse_: no problem, glad to help. it's possibly overkill for the CRUX install but it seemed like a good idea at the time15:30
jaegerI do remember one of the motivations behind it, it was to move away from the default behavior of assuming /dev/hdc was the cdrom, or having to specify root=whatever at boot time15:31
jesse_Indeed. It certainly makes much more sense in an installer since you'd hope it has the ability to cope with different systems.15:33
rehabdolli should start carrying a blowtorch in my car (xkcd)15:37
jaegerI've been planning to modify it to be less CD-specific... usb, SD, CF, that sort of thing15:38
jaegerthen I'll install crux on my eeepc, heh15:38
jaegerI know some people have made scripts to allow this but I would like to do it all in the initramfs/init15:38
YartHow is Crux with wireless?15:39
jaegergreat, as long as linux supports your wireless hardware :)15:39
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jesse_Don't know how well it works on a PPC since I only have x86 hardware. :p15:40
jaegerwell, it worked quite well on a powerbook g4 I used to own15:41
YartWith an Airport card?15:41
jaegerI believe so, it's been a long time15:41
YartAwesome! I'll have to test that out.15:42
jaegerheh, found a screenshot of my crux ppc install... though it doesn't show anything ppc-centric15:44
YartCould I see anyways? I don't have a clue what it looks like,15:44
jaegerIt's just a screenshot of windowlab, won't tell you much... but here it is:
jaegerI have a similar one on a sparc64 box, can't really tell anything from the shot, hehe15:45
jesse_Considering it is a linux base with xorg but running on a different hardware platform it should not look different on the surface.15:47
YartAlright. :)15:47
YartNow I haven't really played around too much with customization. Would it be possible to later on throw on, say, jwm or icewm?15:49
jesse_crux is minimalistic compared to the more popular distributions out there, but there is nothing stopping you from running what you want to run.15:50
YartSounds good!15:50
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jaeger <-- this never fails to make me laugh15:51
YartErr... I don't get it. :S15:52
DarkNekros__nor me xD15:52
Rotwangme too ;]15:52
latitudeYart: nothing stops you from running twm, so be carefull about your wishes )15:52
jaegerit's just funny to me that I was using twm on a dual 1280x1024 setup... twm is a terrible window manager15:52
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jaegerin fact, that t should stand for terrible15:53
YartOh! Haha.15:53
latitudeevery time i see this x11 pattern, my head is like going to blow15:54
jesse_Four or five years ago I remember seeing a screenshot of twm that actually looked nice.15:54
jesse_It's the default look that sucks. :D15:55
jaegerI've never seen a twm that looked nice... though I'll admit it may be possible with enough effort. though are you sure you aren't thinking of fvwm instead?15:56
YartUh... I never said twm. jwm.15:57
YartBut eh I'm not picky on looks. if I had something that resembled an Atari 2600 game I'd be happy. :PP15:57
jesse_I'm sure it was twm due to the title bars on windows and the odd menu that shows up with a click.15:58
YartEh. I'm confused.15:58
jesse_I'm referring to an old screenshot of twm I once saw.15:59
YartOh okay.15:59
jesse_Since jaeger mentioned fvwm, it was a couple of years ago when it was somewhat big at least in the gentoo forums.16:01
jesse_Certainly very flexible but looking at the config file gives me a head ache. :/16:02
spaceninjajaeger has jwm in his repos16:03
jaegerI do? I've never even heard of jwm16:03
spaceninjaisn't that jwm?16:03
spaceninjaoh I meant sepen16:04
jaegerah :)16:04
rehabdolltwm ftw!111!16:04
jaegerhrmm... jwm reminds me of icewm16:04
YartYeah. They're pretty similar I find.16:05
rehabdollanyone else with screens of their desktops?16:05
spaceninjayou'll just get a brown smudge from me if I do a screenshot now :)16:07
spaceninjahaven't got the energy to install crux on my desktop yet, and I feel really bad about it16:07
spaceninjabut I got crux on my server, it's so great16:07
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rehabdoll - complete with irc b0rkb0rk16:07
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YartI had a screenshot of my desktop, but I can't save in anything other than Tiff. >:/ OS X 10.3 for ya.16:08
jaegerrehabdoll: very clean, I like it16:09
spaceninjaww2 military green16:09
YartOh! Is that bitchX?16:12
rehabdollirssi ofcourse16:12
rehabdollbitchx is a bit -96 :)16:12
YartI'll have to look into that.16:13
jaegerI haven't seen too many irssi themes with a user list, kinda neat16:13
Yart"bit -96"?16:13
rehabdollits a script16:13
YartOh okay.16:13
jaegerah, neat16:13
jaegerthat explains why :)16:13
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