IRC Logs for #crux Friday, 2009-04-03

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pitiIIogood morning01:02
teKhello01:04
pitiIIo:)01:05
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sepenmorning01:20
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nipuLjaeger: python will reverse it in place07:16
nipuLa = [1,2,3]07:16
nipuLa.reverse()07:16
nipuLprint a07:16
nipuLhmm, should have read the end of that monologue07:17
nipuLyou can always make a copy if you don't want it to be destructive07:20
nipuLimport copy07:20
* nipuL just had a haskell mind fuck07:23
nipuLstrict vs lazy io07:23
nipuLi'm mucking around with a haskell implementation of pkgutils (just for fun)07:24
nipuLit originally used Parsec to process the pkgdb which is a strict parser, and would use 500MB RAM and a 3GB heap just to process a db with about 500 packages07:25
nipuLit was suggested i switch to lazy io, which reduced it to 3MB of RAM07:27
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latitudenipuL: i feel your pain07:37
latitudeor maybe it's just my head hurts rom haskell07:37
nipuLwell, through pain came knowledge, so it's not so bad07:47
latitudeyep, some principles would be of much help in procedural languages at least07:54
latitudebut i guess then thay'd be not procedural anymore07:55
nipuLah, this is why i like haskell07:56
nipuLlistFiles :: PkgDb -> PackageName -> IO ()07:56
nipuLlistFiles pkgdb name = do07:56
nipuL  case findPackage pkgdb name of07:56
nipuL    Just package -> putStr $ unlines $ pkgFiles package07:56
nipuL    Nothing -> error $ "Could not find package " ++ name07:56
nipuLi just implemented half of 'pkginfo -l'07:57
nipuLweee!07:57
jaegernice :)08:00
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latitudehow'd i yank 5 lines backwards in vim?09:26
latitude-5y doesn't seem to work09:26
latitudetada09:29
latitudey5l09:29
latitudeerr, y4509:30
latitude*err*, y5k09:30
latitudecrap it yanks 609:34
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tilmannipuL: did it really use 500MB of ram or were you exagerating (sp)?09:40
nipuLit used even more if i didn't compile it first09:46
tilmano__O09:47
* tilman installs ghc again :)09:48
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tilmanhttp://sequence.complete.org/node/25709:50
tilman"a simple tcp client"09:50
tilmanyeah, right. *brain asplodes* :>09:50
nipuLheh09:51
nipuLas one of my maths lecturers said09:51
nipuLsimple does not mean easy09:51
tilman:)09:51
tilmando you know why haskell people refer to memory as 'space' often?09:53
tilmaneg "The distribution includes space and time profiling09:53
tilmanfacilities, [...]"09:53
nipuLiirc it's to do with lazy evaluation09:54
tilmanmmhk09:54
nipuLchunks of memory called "thunks" contain blocks of unevaluated data09:54
nipuLif you collect a large number of these thunks, it's called a space leak09:55
nipuLhaskell shouldn't get memory leaks by design, but you can accumlate large ammounts of data that never get used09:56
tilmanyeah, i've read about space leaks before (and wondered why they don't call them memory leaks .. :D)09:56
tilmanok09:56
nipuLif anyone's curious http://hpaste.org/fastcgi/hpaste.fcgi/view?id=3250#a325109:59
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latitudenipuL: what it may do?10:04
tilmanthat's nipul's hs implementation of pkgutils10:04
latitudei mean, is is *that* can do all pkgutils can?10:05
latitudecool10:06
nipuLnot quit10:07
nipuLit's just pkginfo so far10:07
latitudenipuL: for me it's like sharing some rocket technology for now )10:08
latituderight after the wwII, britain gave soviet union 10 state-of-the-art jet motors for airplanes, and that allowed uusr to shorten the technical distance in engineering and cold war began10:12
latitudethat what ii reminds me10:12
latitudes/uusr/ussr/10:12
nipuLhow it writing pkgutils in haskell going to start a cold war10:15
nipuLunless of course i add sha1 and lzma support >:)10:15
aonsha256 ftw10:15
aonmake it just check the file sizes and support arj as the only compression method10:16
latitudebtw, applying sha512 in login.defs is quite an easy improvement for crux10:16
latitudeover default md510:16
nipuLmeh, that's ok, if you have local uses you don't trust10:17
nipuLuses/users/10:17
latitudewho knows, i can think of near future viruses, that just run with user privileges and broadcasting anything they can lie the dirty hand on to the internet10:20
aonhmm10:23
latitudethat's how cold war is going to begin xD10:23
aonbut how does having sha512 instead of md5 help if someone has got remote access already somehow?10:23
latitudeaon: say someone likes to use sudo with NOPASSWD10:26
aonwell there's your problem :)10:26
* latitude is not using sudo like this10:26
latitudebut i bet there those who are10:27
nipuLi do on my home desktop10:27
latitudesee10:27
nipuLbut it's essentially diskless10:27
nipuLand it's behind 2 firewalls10:28
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tilmanperl -e "print 'foo' + 2"10:53
tilmanperl o_O10:53
roberthperl -e "print 'foo' . 2"10:57
roberth+ adds numbers, so ...10:57
tilmanroberth: i'm laughing at the fact that perl silently performs addition of strings and numbers10:57
roberthtilman: I agree. But: use warnings;10:59
tilmanok11:00
roberthperl -Mwarnings -e "print 'foo' + 2"11:01
pedjatilman: are you having any issues with gtk-2.16? or is my opt tree b0rken again :)11:01
tilmanpedja: no, i didn't notice the release11:01
tilman(i assume)11:01
pedjait was two weeks ago11:02
tilman:( sorry11:02
tilmansame with new glib11:02
pedjai figured you had some issues with it, or waiting for 2.16.1 :)11:02
tilmanthe good news is that i'll probably stop working overtime in 2 weeks or so, then i'll have more time for maintaining my crux stuff again11:05
latitudewhat is b0rk?11:07
* latitude checked the FAQ11:07
tilman'broken':p11:09
pedjahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borken11:10
pedjaleet :)11:10
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pedjalatitude: lots of it here http://www.alsindependence.com/Internet_Slang.htm11:11
tilmani live near Borken :D11:12
aon:D11:12
aonhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hackerbr├╝cke11:13
latitudeoh man :)11:13
aonit seems like whole germany was named by 1337s11:13
tilmanhaha11:14
aonhttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/Altes_Hackerhaus-Eingang.jpg :-D11:15
tilman;)11:16
pedjaGermany passed antihacker law, or something like that, if I am not mistaken?11:18
pedjaforbidding 'hacker tools' like nmap and the like...11:18
tilmancorrect11:18
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pedjaI guess BND didn't get that memo :) http://www.itexaminer.com/german-intelligence-tapped-foreign-desktops.aspx11:22
pedjaor wiretaping/installing keylogers is not considered hacking ...11:23
pedjasales of tinfoil hats must be going through the roof in .de11:24
pedja;)11:24
oh1fjvWAT11:24
oh1fjvyou can't nmap in germany? :D11:24
oh1fjv(sorry for the nick change btw)11:25
pedjaThe law forbids German citizens to research, discuss or disclose security problems.11:27
pedja and bans the distribution and possession of software which has as its primary goal the circumvention of security measures.11:28
pedja202c is the name for, methinks11:29
pedjahttp://www.bmj.bund.de/files/-/1317/RegE%20Computerkriminalit%A4t.pdf (in German)11:29
latitudepedja: why to call them hacking tools, that network diagnostics )11:37
oh1fjvwell <311:38
* latitude copied telnet binary to a secret usb key11:40
oh1fjvi wonder where should one start hiding if such stuff propagates through eu :|11:41
pedjalatitude: possession of tools that could be used for evil purposes is forbidden, under strict interpretation of the law.11:41
oh1fjvlike hex editors? :)11:42
oh1fjvor a very small magnetic needle, perhaps :)11:42
pedjacourt MIGHT recognize a difference between cracker and security researcher, but no one want's to test that in practice ;)11:42
pedjaoh1fjv: or a hammer11:43
oh1fjvalso, you might use a hole punch to CRACK software on punched cards11:43
oh1fjv-> illegal11:43
pedjayup11:43
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pedjait is crazy and inefficient11:44
pedjabad guys don't care11:44
latitudei thought about some crazy technology, like how to be able to use software and not own it11:47
latitudeyou can basically have a block device full of bits organized in some way11:48
latitudeand a bunch of keys, that allow you to know what bits to gather to receive some file from that device11:49
latitudemuch like encryptfs, but i believe that it's possible to detect cryptfs and conclude you have something there11:49
latitudewhile having just a block device like hard drive with no magic of any visible storage will prevent that11:50
pedjahttp://www.truecrypt.org/hiddenvolume11:51
pedjasomething like that?11:51
latitudeah ,yes, seems like it11:51
latitudei like the phrase you cannot refuse to reveal the password (for example, due to extortion)11:52
latitudebut basically you can replace block device with internet11:52
pedjaexecute software from the net without actually installing it?11:53
latitudeinternet has tons of static content, and you may create the key in such a way, that it will allow to receive something even without changing the internet11:53
latitudefor me it seems like fetching software from nowhere11:54
latitudebut i think the key may require comparable size11:54
latituderesembles p2p on some way, but there's no peers )11:55
pedjawith SysInternals Live you can execute tools directly from the web, like  http://live.sysinternals.com/<toolname>11:56
pedjacool idea, great tools for Windows11:57
latitudethat's not it, in my scheme there is no central location11:57
pedjashow us the code ;)11:58
latitudexD11:58
latitudemaybe some day11:58
latitudei mean you just fetch random pieces from random network sources and gather them into say, nmap12:00
* pedja likes 'conficker is Skynet, run for your lives/civilization will end' media angle12:00
pedjayeah, right12:00
pedjabalanced, as always.conficker even made it to the CNN :)12:01
pedja'only' 1.1m computers still infected.heh12:05
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latitudeoh, i remember it, all my network was blocked in day12:09
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nipuLthat law't not as bad as what they are proposing in australia19:34
nipuLour goverment want's to introduce mandatory internet filtering, a "clean feed" to "protect" the "children" from "pornography"19:35
jaegerthe ACMA makes my ass twitch19:37
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jaegerand they make my job harder, though I won't go into that19:37
nipuLi'm just wondering where the porn is on wikileaks, which has made the blacklist19:43
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cruxbot[contrib.git/2.5]: libidn: 1.13 -> 1.1421:52
cruxbot[contrib.git/2.5]: physfs: 1.0.1 -> 2.0.021:52
cruxbot[contrib.git/2.5]: xine-lib: 1.1.16.2 -> 1.1.16.321:52
cruxbot[contrib.git/2.5]: atanks: 3.5 -> 3.5-r121:52
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