IRC Logs for #crux Sunday, 2009-04-19

cruxbot[opt.git/2.5]: mplayer: clean up meta data00:47
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Rotwangthe movie trailers of 21th century all look the same, dosn't they?04:43
Rotwangquick  intensive scenes full of action, sex and "i'm doing it the other way" youngsters04:44
Rotwangit makes me sick04:44
treachdoesn't / don't. Pick one. _Preferably_ "don't". :>04:45
Rotwangim doing it my way!04:45
tilmanyou're such a rebel!04:46
treachmeh, he's just a pirate, which is the same as a "trrist", which means you may torture and hang 'im without further ado. :>04:48
tilmanis terr0r1st a bad word now? ;)04:49
treachyep, modern synonyme for "childpornographer".04:50
treachwelcom to the new age. "Your ass are all belong to Rupert Murdoch"04:52
nipuL<RupertMurdoch> "Hey, I paid 100 dollaridoos for that arse!"05:00
tilmanthat printf hook crap is scary05:11
tilmanwhat the fuck are people thinking?05:11
treachmy coding skills aren't good enough to see what's scary about it, other than it seems pretty stupid (for several reasons) to add something almost nobody will use.05:15
tilmanit's scary that anyone thinks they need an extendable printf function05:15
treacha case of "when all you have is a hammer, all problems look like nails"?05:16
tilmanor a case of braindeadedness05:17
treachwell, that's essentially the same. :>05:17
tilmanhow do i debug pdflush?05:17
treachI sincerely hope you're not asking me. :P05:18
tilmani hoped either you or nipuL would have poked at it before ;D05:18
tilmani found a mail where some guy provided the output of echo t > /proc/sysrq-trigger05:19
tilmanthat one prints all running tasks with a backtrace05:19
tilmanso at least you can see what code path was taken inside the kernel05:19
* treach is still trying to recover from yesterdays raid problems05:22
treach"Memory use is not that much of a premium anymore and most of the memory pool doesn?t actually require memory until it is used, only address space. We have plenty of that on 64-bit machines."05:24
treachWhy do I smell another "640kB is enough" here..05:25
treachmalloc_info exports XML..? that sounds like tinderbox material too. :>05:32
tilmanthat was the biggest WTF in that article for me05:32
tilmandidn't think drepper would do that :D05:32
treachno, me neither05:33
treachnew fefe post in 1, 2, 3.. :p05:33
tilmanoh yeah, you should tell him about drepper's post05:33
treachI'm sure he'll find it by himself. :>05:34
treachthat guy should be sent to Punjab..05:56
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joacimI need a bit of memory because I like to multitask06:02
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nipuLwhat's pdflush doing that indicates it needs debugging?06:11
tilmannipuL: it doesn't finish06:13
tilmansucking 100% cpu time though06:13
tilmancan't reboot/halt the box because of that06:13
tilmani can trigger it reliably by using oprofile for a few minutes :)06:13
tilman(see my rant in #crux-devel from last night)06:13
nipuLno idea, sorry06:15
tilmananyone know a linux distro that sucks less than crux? ;)06:16
nipuLcrux64 ;)06:16
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nipuLthere's this one called youbuntoo or something that people rave about06:17
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nipuLwhat fs are you using?06:21
nipuLmount opts?06:22
nipuLis it just using cpu time? or is it going nuts in i/o too?06:24
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tilmanmmmmh. judging from the lack of disk scratching sounds, i think it's just cpu time06:25
tilmangood point06:25
nipuL:\ can't even ptrace it06:28
nipuL"hi, i'm a magical system process that you don't need to know about, kthxbai"06:29
nipuLwhat is this mac?06:29
tilmanmaybe of interest: when i power off the machine because of this, my ~/.zsh_history gets nuked06:31
tilmaneven though i did log out06:31
tilmanbut i guess the history file couldn't be written because pdflush was busy doing god knows what06:31
tilman(maybe writing /var/oprofile crap...)06:31
nipuLcould be an oprofile bug06:32
tilmani could try to oprofile pdflush06:33
nipuLi'll see what oprofile does to my system06:34
nipuLif i can get through the damn sf mirrors to find one that works06:35
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nipuLjust need to recompile my kernel to enable profiling...06:47
nipuLdoes anything of interest go to syslog?06:48
nipuLnothing bad is happening for me07:00
tilmando you run ext4 as well?07:00
tilmanor maybe it's those extra 32 bits that make a difference?07:00
nipuLmaybe, but shouldn't07:00
nipuLhmm, it won't let me unload the module now07:03
nipuLeven after shutting down the profiling daemon07:03
nipuLso it just happens when the daemon is running, or do you do something specific07:04
tilmani think i ran --shutdown before it happened07:17
tilmanyep, i did07:17
nipuLstill nothing07:22
nipuLi'm going to go out on a limb and blame ext4 :)07:22
tilmanyep, that was my suspicion07:22
tilmannever saw somthing like that with ext307:22
tilman(on this machine)07:23
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* thrice` is still on ancient jfs ;>08:29
* treach is on ext4 since his little raid magic hoopla. :>08:30
treachlaptop on jfs though.08:30
thrice`ah, yes, this is a laptop here too08:31
thrice`ext4 didn't excite me enough to change.  jfs has been pretty solid here08:32
treachshould be. :>08:32
treachfigured I could just as well go ext4 for the desktop when I had to reformat anyway08:32
thrice`i figured the IBM FS fits best for a thinkpad, no? ;)08:32
thrice`ah, yeah08:33
treachmmh. I thought something like "if jfs is good enough for aix, it's surely good enough for my laptop08:33
jaegeronly if you can run AIX on it :)08:33
tilmanthrice`: extents + delayed allocation sounds good at least08:33
treachnah. it's for os/2 as well ;)08:34
tilmantoo bad ext4 doesn't have dynamic inode allocation08:34
treachin fact I never understood why jfs never really caught on, since it has to be one of the cleaner filesystems around08:34
nipuLi use jfs on older hardware08:35
nipuLi refuse to use ext ever since ext3 hosed 50gb of media on me08:35
thrice`I used to use reiserfs until I had it corrupt once one me, and in the same week read about it happening to a buddy, so I decided it was time for a change08:36
thrice`i'll probably change when btrfs (if?) makes it, though :)08:36
tilmanxfs works for me these days, but i like how i can convert ext3/ext4 to btrfs next year08:36
treachWell, colour me suspicious, but I think we got stuck with ext3 for two reasons.08:36
treachbackward compatibility, and red hat payed for it..08:36
treachnot sure which of those two were the biggest factor though08:37
thrice`typically it's the latter, no?08:37
tilmanredhat payed tweedie to do the joural thing?08:37
nipuL"quick we need a journaling file system, HACK, HACK, HACK!!"08:37
tilmanaha, indeed08:37
thrice`hurray, newest pm-utils makes suspend work again on intel cards :)08:38
nipuL"but sir, there are several implementations of this, that are tested and shown to be reliable and fast"08:38
treachnot to forget, "spread a lot of fud and other kinds of bullshit about our competitors".08:38
treachlike "JFS will eat your children if you have a multi processor system"08:39
thrice`oh wow, it DID eat one of my cores08:41
thrice`is -3 still the latest 64-bit iso around?08:57
* thrice` would like to avoid recompiling gcc if possible :(08:58
jaegerI believe so, until we figure out the modules issue08:58
thrice`ah, bummer.  alright, thanks :)08:59
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thrice`I wonder if there is a way to see how many unique IP's pull from the ports tree?09:18
tilmani'd rather not now ;)09:19
thrice`no? :>  i've always been curious09:20
treachin a world with proxies and NAT, what does an IP even mean..?09:20
thrice`i wouldn't know a better method of guessing, I suppose09:21
treachwelcome to the game "how many linux users are there", where your guess is as good as any record labels estimation of imaginary losses. :>09:22
thrice`ok, i'll stick with my original guess of 1,000,000 :)09:22
tilmanthrice`: i'm guessing we have 250 users09:23
* treach thinks there are quite a bit more than 250.09:23
thrice`really?  I honestly was thinking about 1,000 or so09:24
jaegerrsync logs?09:24
joacimMy guess is 3709:24
treachtilman: I'm no big irc user, yet I from time to time run into some fellow cruxer whom I've never seen before.09:25
treachthat would at least be an indication that there are more than you'd think09:25
tilmancool. i've never met a crux user who i didn't see in #crux before09:25
thrice`I think there are alot who don't speak english as well who don't bother with irc09:25
tilmanyou mean romster?09:28
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thrice`strangely, I've only met 3-4 people in real life who actually use linux09:34
treachprobably because the rest either were playing their pirated games, or convinced the computer won't work without Microsoft Word being in control of it. :>09:36
treach"OMG it doesn't show that flag thing when it starts, it must be broken!" :p09:36
thrice`or the mac spinning beach ball, of course :)09:37
treachmacs are quite uncommon here09:37
thrice`ah, yeah, I suppose09:38
treachI think we actually are getting to a point here were more people knows about linux than mac, even if they don't use it.09:38
joacimI always get these snide remarks when people find out I own and use a mac :/09:43
thrice`my girlfriend does too, but I don't take her out in public09:44
nipuLi know quite a few linux users IRL09:47
nipuLtreach: coming from a bsd background i've found i know more about osx than osx users09:48
thrice`yeah, osx isn't too bad09:49
treachheh, doesn't surprise me.10:01
treachthen otoh, you're slightly amazed you meet *any* habitual mac user that actually knows *anything* about computers. :>10:01
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thrice`heh, I'll agree with that :)10:22
thrice`though, they often think they know everything :)10:22
treachnot what I've experienced, but rather that to them a computer is something you press on a key and it starts so you can begin using your programs like photoshop and whatever else they use.10:25
thrice`yep.  definitely not an OS to tinker with10:25
treachheh, windows is not necessarily "an OS to tinker with" but something you try to keep hanging together with strings and chewing-gum..10:27
treachyou learn how to be a mechanic because you have to.10:27
thrice`windows generally works OK for me.  granted, I use it only at work, which is XP, and it's behind quite a large layer of anti-virus and firewalling10:29
treachmeh, it works, if you're lucky.10:30
treachif you're unlucky, windows update gets a hiccup, and it's game over10:30
thrice`ah, yeah.  their update system kinda sucks10:31
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thrice`at least I can understand when pkgmk fails :>10:31
treachyep. as opposed to anything proprietary.10:31
treach"An error 0x242da5f98 has occured, your computer will now reboot"10:32
treachwhich it subsequently fails to do10:32
treachHappened to me while back, don't remember the actual number though10:32
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nipuLmost people are unlucky when it comes to keeping windows running10:42
thrice`the lack of consistancy doesn't help :)10:42
nipuLthe causes of failure are fairly consistent10:43
nipuLthe filesystem crapping itself was a common one10:45
nipuLthat or fucking spyware10:49
thrice`indeed :)10:49
nipuL"my computer's running slow, i think i need a bigger ram"10:49
nipuLor the guy that thought he had a virus, but instead had no hdd10:50
thrice`well, keeps the IT field running, I guess ;)10:51
nipuLor the guy that broke the plasic clips on his heatsink, so superglued it back ontop of the cpu10:51
thrice`h aha10:51
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tilmancrap, i cannot live^Wsurf without awesomebar anymore11:08
treachwell, the guy with ram might be correct. windows xp as released is not exactly the same beast as sp3+ in terms of ram useage..11:08
* thrice` slaps Rotwang 11:09
tilmanRotwang: are you pissed off because i correct your spelling yesterday?11:09
Rotwangimplaying w/ you guys, don't be so touchy11:10
treachRotwang: thank you. now if you could only apply your knowledge of english to your own typing. ;)11:10
nipuLdamn insomnia, i have stuff i need to do tomorrow11:12
rehabdollsleeping is for pussies11:13
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tilmannipuL: tried beer/booze? :p11:13
nipuLthat just keeps me up longer11:13
treachincrease the dosis. :>11:13
tilmannipuL: what timezone are you in?11:14
nipuLheh, according to WP insomnia is associated with increased longevity11:16
nipuLit's prtoobably because dst has just ended11:19
aontreach: more like decrease it, at least i'm quite sleepy after one beer :)11:28
treachyou should be rendered unconcious after 1+N if you're a normal human. :)11:29
aonbut from what i know that doesn't really coutn as sleeping :)11:30
thrice`yes, you don't wake up feeling rested :)11:31
treachat least you're not awake; And if you sleep badly you don't feel rested when you wake up either.11:31
treach(try having your alarm clock going off every half hour for one night)11:32
nipuLor i could just day break it :)11:33
nipuLthen atleast i'll sleep tomorrow night11:33
thrice`there ya go :)11:34
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thrice`hi spaceninja12:26
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thrice`rehabdoll: I think binutils should go into core-x86_64, btw12:38
thrice`since it adds a bunch of x86_64 crap :)12:39
thrice`oh wait, I still have the one pulled12:40
tilmantry core-c64.rsync12:40
tilmandon't remember the url though ;>12:40
thrice`, no? :>12:41
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thrice`treach: do you have the core-64 rsync path handy?12:41
treachone moment12:41
thrice`ah, thanks; missed the c12:44
treachor, well, that's rehabdoll's secret, evil repo.12:44
treachthere is a core-x86_64 too, but if you installed -3, you should already have that12:45
thrice`yes, that seems useless now, though12:46
thrice`I really like the idea of only having offending ports in /usr/ports/opt-x86_6412:51
treachmmh, IMO, having overlay repos is the only feasable solution12:51
treachthere will NEVER be enough maintainers for two complete, independent trees.12:52
thrice`nor does there need to be, I don't think12:53
treachwell, if you don't use overlays..12:53
treacheither that, or you accept that one of the archs will hobble along.12:53
thrice`yeah, it kind of forces the devs to stick to i686, I guess12:55
thrice`or at least a 686 install, anyway12:57
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thrice`huh, kbd still fails here13:09
* thrice` is blaming toolchain for this one13:10
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DarkNekroshi everybody ;)15:08
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nipuLtreach: i maintain my own x86_64 for core, opt, contrib and xorg17:02
nipuLbut i let the main repo maintainers do all the work for me17:03
nipuLi just cherry pick updates as I need them17:03
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