IRC Logs for #crux Monday, 2009-06-01

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*** sets mode: +ooo jaeger aon tilman00:14
bombastthis is really weird00:15
bombastholy crap00:18
bombasti have no idea about this one, fstab and lilo.conf are A-OK00:19
bombastkernel config is right00:19
bombasti might be better off just doing this on my external hard drive than this stupid cf card00:22
bombasti can get it installed, it just wont boot00:22
jaegerI wonder if you need a device settling timeout or something like that00:33
jaegeror maybe just something missing from the kernel00:33
bombasttoo bad lilo is a piece of crap and doesn't support uuid's00:33
bombastnope jaeger00:33
bombasti can almost gurantee it's correct00:34
bombasti can just install grub from the cd00:34
jaegerthat unknown block thing is almost always some missing support but I certainly can't say it's 100%00:35
bombastbut.. its not on this cd00:35
bombastjaeger: yeah, i know - but the kernel config is from my working install and i made sure to double check some gotchas for 64bit and booting from cflash00:35
bombasthere it is00:36
bombasti dont remember grub-static being on the x86 cd00:37
bombastnow im unsure which i need.00:38
bombasti guess ill go with static to be safe00:38
bombasti've come as far as grub being able to find the kernel, but i think i wont be able to get much further00:58
bombastso ends that adventure01:07
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bombastHey, sepen.01:09
sepenhey morning01:09
bombastlate note for me ;)01:09
bombastI installed crux65 on my compact flash card01:10
sepen08:08 here01:10
sepenhmm crux51201:10
bombastBut I couldn't get it to boot for anything thanks to a weird grub/lilo issue01:10
bombastmaybe it's my BIOS01:10
sependid you tried with options┬┐?01:11
bombasti tried everything01:11
bombastit's not a huge deal, i just thought it'd be a cool thing to say i installed crux64 on a compact flash card01:12
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bombastit would boot the kernel01:12
bombastbut has hd(0,0)01:13
bombasteven though it was sdc01:13
bombastwhich leads me to believe it's my BIOS01:13
sepenno idea, just using official 68601:13
DarkNekrosmorning gentlemen ;)01:13
bombastsepen: I am on my desktop01:13
sepenhey DarkNekros01:13
bombasthello DarkNekros01:13
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bombastI did notice that crux uses /lib64 as a symlink to /lib01:44
bombastthat seems a little redundant01:44
nipuLit's needed, trust me01:47
bombastnipuL: I'd trust you with my life.01:47
nipuLthat's probably not a good idea01:48
nipuLi'm quite the sadist01:48
bombastI guess if I ever reinstall Crux I'll go 64bit.01:48
bombastthe install was pretty smooth01:49
f1yHi there.01:51
bombasthi f1y01:52
aongm is going bankrupt01:53
aonha ha01:53
bombastthank god01:54
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bombasthey hey02:12
aon(ie. "good morning", not "general motors" anymore)02:16
aonlet's see if cpan segfaults again02:18
bombastcpan gives me nightmares02:19
aondidn't \o/02:25
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spaceninjajaeger: Do you know how to fix the empty application menu in gnome?03:40
cruxbot[contrib.git/2.5]: virtualbox: updated to 2.2.405:06
tilmanhow goddamn hard is it to get subpixel rendering in gtk apps!?05:48
tilmanenabling that stuff in freetype instantly makes qt use it, but gtk still fails05:49
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thrice`I've never messed with subpixel rendering07:18
tilmanquite beautiful :D07:23
thrice`so, I take it linking to another screenshot means yours doesn't work yet? :(07:29
tilmanonly in qt, i think07:31
tilmani think cairo is to blame07:32
aonblurry :s07:32
thrice`cairo would make sense, I guess07:35
thrice`I'd be curious if you figure it out, though.  that shot does look pretty nice07:38
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rehabdollits beautiful when sweden meets finland08:19
jaegerspaceninja: which is empty? the entire "Applications" menu? I haven't run into that myself08:30
jaegerspaceninja: update-desktop-database might need to be run08:30
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aonhc tips in the viewer competition :)09:17
aonthis can't be real :D09:17
aonthen again, it looks like quite a lot of effort to not be09:18
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aonrehabdoll: :|09:24
aonnotice the insightful comments09:24
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rehabdolli guess they didnt use the audio-preview09:45
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thrice`huh, empathy seems pretty bundled to gnome - bummer.  I'd like to see a pidgin alternative :(10:49
Rotwangthrice`: instantbird10:51
Rotwangxulrunner based im10:51
Rotwangive got geforce 4 mx 42010:51
Rotwanghow do i know wheter is it 3.3V AGP?10:52
tilman-> check the form of the pci connector thing10:53
Rotwangcant find much :<11:01
Rotwangon teh agp seal there is small sticker that reads if i put 3,3V AGP card in there, then my PC is going to blow11:02
Rotwangso i need to be sure ;]11:02
thrice`hm, xulrunner based anything scares me ;)11:14
bombasthola folks11:33
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bombasthey sepen11:34
Rotwangthrice`: ive tested instant bird for a while (few minutes) and its pretty similar to pidgin ;]11:38
Rotwangby the way if motherboard has DDR(1) slots11:38
Rotwangit means that i can put any ddr1 ram in there11:39
jaegermake sure the speed is proper11:40
jaegerDDR-333, DDR-400, etc.11:40
Rotwangdman google isnt helping much :<11:42
Rotwangive upgraded my moms pc11:52
bombastWow to remove a Microsoft installed extension you have to use the registry editor to delete a few keys, using about:config in Firefox and delete obscure .NET files - Windows is clearly not ready for the desktop.11:52
Rotwangusing some parts from random non working pc's11:53
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bombastthere's a problem w/ the gmpc Port in contrib12:41
bombastit lists "gob2" as a dependency but "gob" in contrib is gob212:41
Rotwangfile a bug report12:41
Rotwangor mail maintainer12:41
Rotwangbut imo filling a bug report is better12:42
bombastgmpc is kind of a terrible name12:42
bombastit really has no gnome dependencies12:42
bombastjust libglade12:42
bombastit's out of date too12:43
treachdo not use enter as interpunctation.12:45
bombastthat's kind of a rude way of asking12:48
treachA) I'm not asking. B) probably depends on what cultural background you have. English people can't poop without sayin "please", germanic languages tend to be a bit more abrupt. No offence intended.12:52
bombasttreach: Well I understand that, but I'm thinking out loud in a process manner. I'm just trying to take some time out of my day to help get some stuff done in contrib, if your biggest issue is with how many times I hit enter.. then so be it.12:53
* bombast rolls his eyes12:53
Rotwangbombast: just file a bug report12:53
bombastRotwang: I'm just going to fix it myself. The packager's website is down so I can only assume his email is also.12:54
sepenor just ping teK12:54
sepenbut don't waste your time with this kind of discussions ;D12:55
bombastWho is tek?12:55
treachthomas penteker12:55
sepenbombast, did you read the Pkgfile for gmpc?12:55
sepenso the maintainer iircd12:55
bombastOh, I was only looking at the packager.12:55
Rotwangbombast: always look at the maintainer12:56
sepenthen read the handbook about the meaning of packager and maintainer12:56
Rotwangpackager is a credit for earlier maintainer12:56
bombastAh, duly noted.12:56
Rotwangwhich is confusing12:56
* treach nods12:56
bombastI thought packager was the person who wrote the last Pkgfile.12:56
bombastWhich would make more sense.12:56
treachbombast: we've had this up before, and I have propagated for the removal of the packager line as it is confusing, which you have duely noted by now.12:57
treachalas, the powers that be does not agree.12:57
bombasttreach: Indeed.12:57
bombasttreach: I actually agree with you 100%12:58
treachanyway, now you know how it works.12:58
bombastI wish dolan would show up again.12:58
bombastI really want to know how my nvidia port update worked for him so I could know if it's worth pushing to contrib12:59
Rotwangactually i think previous maintainers should be credited some way12:59
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bombastRotwang: No doubt, but "packager" is the worst possible name.12:59
sepenI think that is not confusing if you know how it means12:59
Rotwangarch people has "contributeor" iirc13:00
treachsepen: well, that's kind of the point.13:00
bombastsepen: Well, that's like saying it's not confusing that go means stop if you're told that.13:00
treachif you know what something means it's not confusing, that some nobel laurelate material there. :>13:01
sepensure, but I also like to respect the work that packagers did in the past13:01
bombastWe're not disagreeing with that, sepen.13:01
bombastWe're saying Packager is a bad name.13:01
sepenah, sorry then13:01
Rotwangtheyve taken ck4up to community!13:01
Rotwangdamn thieves!13:01
treachsepen: it's not a question of respect, but when it gets in the way of effective communication, I say hang it.13:02
bombastYeah, Contributor or Originator seems more appropriate.13:02
sepenRotwang, some flavours of bsd also have it13:02
bombastPackager makes it seem like "Okay this is the maintainer, but THIS guy wrote the Pkgfile you see."13:02
sepentreach, but you know that all of we are keeping the per liden guidelines, right?13:03
thrice`omfg, kiss plz13:03
treachyeah, but that's not the point.13:03
bombastthrice`: lol hey13:03
sepenmaybe I missread something, could be13:03
treachthings that cause problems should not be carved in stone.13:03
sepenI'm agree with that13:03
* thrice` thinks packager is fine13:04
* bombast finds it confusing and missing the mark13:04
thrice`probably, but now that it's been explained, it's pretty clear13:04
sepenwell, is a bit confusing if you think crux is a package oriented distro ;D13:05
bombastBut that's not how things work, thrice`.13:05
* bombast slaps his forehead13:05
thrice`we should form a committee, maybe13:05
treachthrice`: the problem, which is somewhat alleviated by the fact that crux is such a small dist, is that a *lot* of people don't get it, until they are actually told.13:05
bombastthrice`: So we could have OFFICIAL arguments?13:05
bombastI just think Packager should be more implicit on what it means.13:06
bombastWhich is Originator credit.13:07
treachI don't actually care, but I see it as one of those useless "traditional" things people keep doing for no particulary good reason. :>13:07
sepenalso sometimes the maintainer acts has pottential packager13:07
bombastso there's no good reason for keeping it, but gains for changing it?13:07
joacimdidnt gentoo do that? form committees?13:07
bombastjoacim: every distro in existence have13:07
bombastexcept maybe slackware because that's all of 2-3 people13:08
treachsepen: and sometimes the original packager gets email about broken packages he has had nothing to do with for years.. :>13:08
bombastI just think "Packager" is the wrong term.13:08
bombastThat's all.13:08
sepenand which is the one for you?13:08
treachbombast: Just get over it, it will probably not change anyway so it's a waste of energy. :>13:09
bombastI think Originator or Contributor would be more appropriate.13:09
sepen-1 contributor13:09
treach"Think of the electrons!"13:09
bombasttreach: Meh, nothing I try to help with has any hope of making a difference.13:09
sepen# Ninja packager:13:09
bombast+1 Ninja13:10
treachwell, Originator isn't so bad13:10
Rotwangit is13:10
thrice`bombast: I disagree.  crux is excellent about integrating work :)13:10
Rotwangit sound terrible13:10
bombastIt does?13:10
bombastIt's 100% to the point.13:10
sepenwell, packager or foo... imho is not the most important thing on crux13:11
bombastof course not but it does matter13:12
treachsepen: no, that's correct, but it's an unnecessary annoyance IMO.13:12
bombastI agree with that assertion.13:13
thrice`to whom, though?13:13
bombastthrice`: Anyone trying to help.13:13
thrice`I'd guess there are alot who never even read Pkgfiles13:13
treachthrice`: the guy who gets emails about stuff he did years ago, and the guy who try to report an error and gets no reply because he's mailing the wrong guy?13:13
sepenif you create a package (the first time) then you're a Packager, if you are maintaining some Pkgfile's on a collection then you're the Maintainer13:14
sepenwhere is the doubt?13:14
treachsepen, you're missing the point.13:14
thrice`I see the point, but don't think it's worth changing the entire ports collection.  simply easier to educate those few who actually want to contribute13:15
treachthe point is that you more or less have to *know* what is what in *advance* to make head or tail of it.13:15
sepentreach, sure, crux is targeted for advances users that can read the hanbook13:15
bombastNot to mention by looking at it you can assume the wrong thing without thinking you're wrong.13:15
bombastsepen: ^13:15
sepenmaybe we should document more13:16
treachsepen: frankly I don't care, but please keep the fucking handbook out of the discussion.13:16
joacimwell. The difference between packager and maintainer isnt that hard to understand.13:16
thrice`why?  if it's confusing, at least document it13:16
treachif you have to read the handbook to find out who to email about problems, that's an epic failure.13:16
bombastjoacim: Once again.. it's not about understandability, but wether it's logical or not.13:16
sepenthrice`, +113:16
bombastAnd if it's confusing, why use it?13:17
bombastDocument now, change later.13:17
joacimI didnt find it confusing either13:17
thrice`so, in case there is an issue, you have a resource to look to possibly?13:17
thrice`say, maintainer A has a problem.  Perhaps Packager B can provide some input13:17
bombastWe're not asking for the removal of the field.13:17
bombastJust a changing of the name..13:17
treachjoacim: it's not about what *you* think is confusing. Just the fact that we get these questions now and then proves that there are people who do get confused.13:17
bombastAs "Packager" makes no sense.13:17
joacimis it bad of me to ignore the apostrophes in isnt and doesnt?13:18
bombastI can already tell this will go nowhere.13:18
thrice`I'll admit it did confuse me for 2 seconds a few years ago too, but I've since learned and never wondered again ;)13:18
bombastI'm dropping the issue.13:18
treachbombast: I told you. :>13:18
sepenI can't send an email to "foo at server dot com", should we change it too?13:19
bombastI just truly hope further contributions will not be met with as much animosity.13:19
bombastsepen: Now you're just being foolish.13:19
sepenwell, I can't see the problem really13:19
bombastOf course you can't.13:19
bombastIt's habit to you.13:19
thrice`I agree with sepen13:19
bombastBut habit is not logic.13:19
sepenjust I think that we should document more13:19
bombastDocumenting illogical practices helps, but doesn't make it any more logical.13:20
treach#packager Foo (Do not email this person)13:20
thrice`it'll never be completely agreed upon, so why even change it.  easier just to document it in the handbook, and answer the 1 question / year that comes to irc13:20
joacimyou could fork crux ;)13:21
sepenlike others13:21
bombastNot the worst of ideas.13:21
lennartwhy not just remove the packager's email address?13:22
bombastlennart: They do deserve credit for their work.13:22
lennartshe would still get the credit, because of the mentioned name13:22
bombastBut Packager is by far the worst name for that field.13:22
treachemail adresses are worth money, ie, credits. So the credit lies in the adress, and not the name. ;)13:23
* thrice` goes back to work13:23
joacimI dont think the proposed alternatives are any better13:23
pitiIIoML are there too, another way to expose your idea about start thinking about an habit and turn it to "logic", and talk that with people to see if it can be interesting or not for the comunity13:23
bombastjoacim: I'm not saying mine are golden..13:23
joacimim not saying you said either13:23
sepenbombast, that should does the trick for you ;D $ sudo ports -u; find /usr/ports/ -type f -name Pkgfile -exec sudo sed 's|Packager|Ninja|' -i {} \;13:23
pitiIIomay be a better way to keep opinions and arguments a bit more sorted13:24
bombastThe long-time users with the most pull are simply going to say "i know what i means"13:24
bombastso it's not even worth discussing13:24
bombastI was here back in 05 but I was a jackass.13:25
bombastSo I probably have even less pull than a normal member.13:25
bombastSo I formally drop the idea.13:25
* bombast goes on with life13:25
pitiIIoyou are free to do that, or to do whatever you want bombast13:25
* bombast shrugs13:26
sepenbut comunity is not only the irc channel, think that13:26
bombastYes because the mailing list is over-run. *snicker*13:26
sepenyou can open a discussion in our mailing list, It would be fine imho13:26
bombastYeah, I'm subscribed.13:26
bombastI like how the example screenshot for ck4up includes a gkrellm line.13:30
bombastThat will remain "ok" for a very long time.13:31
bombastWow, that is an extremely complicated build system they have.13:48
treachdownload,configure, add details, lookie at deps do some prebuild, trigger shit, patch some stuff, prepare and build and then finally, make final? :D13:52
bombastall in seperate files no less13:52
treachoh, right, don't forget, write it down in the history books too.13:53
treach"The epic tale of the installation of Mutt"13:53
bombastwhat a complicated system they have @_@13:53
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thrice`hurray, zsh release \o/14:21
bombasti need to fix this stupid libsdl/sdl name problem14:24
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jaegercurse you, gcc14:58
jaegertrying to build a cross compiler and it keeps complaining about fenv.h14:59
bombastSoounds like a common issue in the cygwin world.14:59
jaegermaybe I need the fixincludes patch15:00
thrice`doing a 64-bit build ?15:01
jaegeryeah, mostly as a learning exercise... building a 64 bit compiler on my 32 bit install15:01
tilmanthrice`: patch for opt/zsh or it isn't true15:01
tilmanjaeger: for cygwin!?15:02
tilmanplease say no15:02
bombasttilman: No, that was just a comment by me based on google results.15:03
jaegerno, nothing cygwin here15:03
tilmanbombast: what's up with sdl?15:03
bombastAnything I ever say can be safely ignored as "crazy"15:03
thrice`tilman: not at home yet.  I think just a version bump, from the changelog.  lots of bug fixes apparently15:03
bombasttilman: A poorly made Pkgfile which used "sdl" instead of "libsdl"15:03
bombastThrew me off.15:03
tilmanthat's unfortunate ;)15:04
* bombast nod15:04
tilmanthe zsh website is _weird_15:04
bombastI know zsh has some wonderful features15:05
bombastbut I just can't ever switch15:05
tilman!seen viper15:05
treach@seen viper15:05
clbtreach: I have not seen viper.15:05
tilmanwhat's the magic incantation?15:05
tilmanah, thanks15:06
tilman@seen viper_15:06
clbtilman: viper_ was last seen in #crux 1 year, 2 weeks, 6 days, 9 hours, 2 minutes, and 26 seconds ago: <Viper_> ok, thanks15:06
treachthat's some activity. :p15:06
treachhad enough, maybe? :D15:06
bombastHe was obviously annoyed by the Packager field and left.15:06
tilman7 months ago he said he'd take some time off15:07
treachwell, I guess you could say he did. :>15:07
tilmandon't laugh/sniker/mock, help out you lazy *censored*15:07
bombastIf dolan would ever show his ass back up.15:08
bombastI could send a much needed update to contrib15:08
treachtilman: wasn't mocking really. I just find it slightly annoying when people just drop off the face of the earth, I guess.15:09
bombastMuch to tilman's distaste.15:09
bombastI'm here for good long time.15:09
tilmanbombast: i'm not believing that yet15:09
bombastAs long I'm in university I'll have the time to dick around with my computer.15:10
bombastAnd I'm still in undergrad.15:10
bombasttilman: The only reason I left Crux last time was because my PC died.15:10
tilmanlast time doesn't count because you pissed off anyone anyway15:10
bombastJust sayin'15:10
tilmanactually "piss off" isn't strong enough an expression :>15:11
bombastI was 16, who isn't an idiot at 16?15:11
bombastHad a lot of personal drama going on during that time which set me off at a moment's notice.15:12
bombastMore interested in Unix now. :P15:12
thrice`tilman: btw, you don't want my zsh patch, as I'd relocate it to /bin/zsh too ;)15:12
bombastOh noes, we got zsh fanboy.15:13
tilmanwhen i was 16, i wrote a program called winlamer15:13
tilmangui to lame15:13
bombasttilman: See, we all made mistakes at 16.15:13
treachzsh "rm a *" "Oh fuck" every time. :>15:13
tilmanjust googled to see whether the lame website still links to it15:13
treacheh, zsh *beats*15:13
tilmanand now i find there's a virus called w16/winlamer :D15:13
thrice`you're famous-ish :)15:14
tilmanback then i didn't know why the lame website divided lame-related apps in "free as in beer" and "free as in speech"15:14
tilmanand why mine was in the beer category :)15:15
bombasttilman: You mean GNU/Lame, right?15:15
bombastBecause Lame is just a missing piece in the GNU system.15:15
treachGNU/Linux/MIT/X11/KDE ftw. :D15:16
tilmanthrice`: is zsh basic enough to be in / instead of /usr?15:16
bombastI guess it'd depend on the results of ldd zsh right?15:16
jaegerok, fixincludes is not the problem15:16
tilmanbombast: true15:17
tilmanour zsh links to libpcre15:17
tilmanwhich probably is in /usr15:17
* bombast nod15:17
tilmanthrice`: FAIL15:17
thrice`I just remember doing a 'chsh /bin/zsh' on my first installation, that was a bigger fail15:18
tilmandoesn't that fail gracefully?15:18
tilmanor did you add /bin/zsh to /etc/shells?15:18
tilmaninstead of /usr/bin/zsh? :D15:18
thrice`it did fail, but gave me a "crux suckz" mentallity :)15:18
bombastmy monitor can hold a lot of urxvt's15:20
bombast16 pretty comfortably15:20
bombasttilman: Is the reason for some ports being in contrib and not opt simply due to a lack of maintainer or not wanting them in opt?15:24
tilmanlack of maintainer usually15:24
* tilman tries to think of an exception15:24
bombastI'm just noticing that pidgin is in contrib but that's an application a LOT of people use15:25
tilmanit was in opt before, but the maintainer moved on15:25
jaegerAnyone else run into this problem of gcc 4.3.3/4.3.2 not being able to find fenv.h?15:25
bombasttilman: Well I've updated it.15:25
treachcontrib is for people who wants to contribute and meet certain criterias afaik, but without being part of the "team" as such"15:26
tilmanbombast: please submit a patch to the guy maintaining it in contrib15:26
tilmanbombast: or even better: build your own ports repo with httpup, stick the updated port there, and send the patch15:27
bombastthat would be Rotwang himself15:27
bombasttilman: I have my ports online they're just not up for syncing due to my crapping dsl line.15:27
bombastI need to update that too..15:27
* thrice` should put some crap into contrib15:27
bombasttilman: How would I go about getting something sent to opt? I think my firmware port would help a lot of people.15:28
tilmanbombast: expect very little traffic for your repo15:29
tilmanit's just three small text files per port15:29
bombastHm, fair enough :)15:29
tilman+ few people will probably sync your repo regularly15:29
treachprovided that *anyone* finds it. :P15:29
bombastWell, the goal would be to get my original work pushed to opt15:30
bombastI wouldn't want it to set in a local repo nobody uses.15:30
bombastEspecially something like firmware.15:30
treachcontrib wold be a better targen, no?15:30
treachtarget, dammit15:30
thrice`yeah, I think contrib would be perfect for that stuff15:30
thrice`I kinda like a slim core/opt15:31
bombastMight wanna rip transmission outta opt then :p15:32
treachhistorical inconsistency.15:32
treachcya tilman15:32
bombastbye tilman15:32
tilmanbombast: i'll get back to you15:32
thrice`see ya tilman15:33
bombasttreach: to me, being "slim" is for core15:33
* thrice` contemplates updating the 2.6 handbook, and replacing the local stuff with en_US15:33
treachnah, core would be just plain cli. :P15:33
bombastcontrib is more for.. loosely maintained here and there15:33
treachthrice`: why, does it make your american head hurt? ;)15:34
bombastWell most Crux users are European15:34
bombastSo that'd be bad15:34
thrice`yeah, probably true15:34
bombastdoes iputils and iproute2 provide anything essential?15:39
bombastoh wait15:39
bombastiputils probably provides /sbin/ip15:39
bombastoh wait, that's iproute315:45
bombaster, 2.15:45
bombastWell, I guess I learned some more info about Crux's init system. Which programs it uses, etc.15:49
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bombastAnyone here use VMWare Workstation?15:55
bombastI'm about to install it but I'm afraid it will shove files in random places without asking me.15:56
treachvirtualbox is probably the vm of choice here15:57
bombaster, I've never had much luck with VBox in Linux.15:57
treachwell, lots of people are using it quite successfully. :>15:58
bombastI don't doubt it ;)15:58
treachonly drawback I can think of is that it isn't too multicore-friendly15:59
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cruxbot[opt.git/2.5]: glib: updated to
cruxbot[opt.git/2.5]: zsh: updated to
rehabdolldamn summer, the sun doesnt even set completely16:24
bombastHey rehabdoll16:24
bombastrehabdoll: What's with the gpm lib errors during install currently?16:25
jaegerlibgmp not installed?16:29
bombastI suppose so. :P16:29
bombastJust fishing for a reason why from rehabdoll.16:30
thrice`aaw, tilman, I was gonna send a patch16:31
jaegerMy guess is libgmp being left out of ISO_PACKAGES16:32
bombastwonder why16:32
jaegerIt wasn't needed for some earlier versions of gcc, etc.16:32
thrice`probably just an oversight :)16:34
tilmanthrice`: sounded like it would take you a while, so i just went ahead16:37
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thrice`yeah, sorry, I have to use windows at work :(16:38
tilmannothing to be sorry about16:38
tilmanyou probably don't get paid to patch crux ports ;)16:39
bombastit's a labor of love :D16:39
thrice`I don't get paid to complain on irc all day either :)16:39
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DarkNekrosbombast, instead of Packager I suggest PkgFileMantainer (or PkgMantainer or something like that)  ;)17:19
bombastDarkNekros: lmao17:19
DarkNekrosbombast, lmao??17:20
bombastYou're not kidding?17:20
bombastthrice`: the point is to convey "guy who ORIGINALLY wrote, but no longer maintains"17:21
bombastthat's why I think Originator works so well17:21
DarkNekrosOriginator is too oddy17:21
bombastI think we should just go with Asshole: and be done with it.17:22
DarkNekrosnot as strict :P17:22
DarkNekrosperhaps PkgMantainer for Mantainer and PkgMaker for the original packager, there are as many as you want ;)17:23
bombastYes but all these examplers are just as bad as Packager IMHO17:24
bombastthey can still be confused for "guy who wrote THIS pkgfile"17:24
DarkNekrosthe problem is to say who make the pkgfile and who is maintaining it17:25
thrice`now you see why it's remained Packager over the years ;)17:26
DarkNekrossometime when you say mantainer you can refer to the guy who made the aplication or the guy who mantains the pkgfile or perhaps the guy who mantains both of them :)17:26
bombastoh god17:27
tilmantrue, but for crux ports we don't care who maintains it upstream17:27
DarkNekrosthrice`, I can see it :)17:27
bombastdon't go into knocking maintainer too17:27
bombastpackager is the only problem we need to brainstorm17:27
DarkNekrosperhaps if we say something like pkgwriter or likewise...17:28
bombastIf it doesn't convey the message of past-tense17:28
bombastit's just as useless as Packager17:28
DarkNekrospgkCreator as God of packages ;)17:29
tilmantilman@centaur [../ports/opt] > grep  Packager */Pkgfile|wc -l17:29
tilmantilman@centaur [../ports/opt] > grep  Maintainer */Pkgfile|wc -l17:29
tilmanpeople don't set packager as often these days ;)17:29
DarkNekrostilman, is this ritgh?17:29
bombasttilman: try that with contrib17:30
DarkNekrosfrom the crux handbook "Packager can be omitted if the maintainer and packager are the same person." ;)17:30
bombastthe point is.17:31
bombastto a crux user, or even NON Crux user17:31
bombastPackager could mean two very different things17:32
DarkNekrosand why not delete the packager field and add "Created by" or "pkgWriter" or "pkgCreator" ? :D17:32
bombastonce again17:32
bombastit does not convey the sense of past-tense needed to seperate the two17:32
bombastall 3 of those are just as "current" as Packager17:32
DarkNekrosso delete the "packager" field and it will be done ;)17:34
bombastThen we would not be giving proper credit to original authors.17:34
DarkNekrosonly the maintaner is the God of pkgfile :P17:34
bombastDarkNekros: So you're saying if someone writes a 500 line Pkgfile for a VERY complex app17:35
bombastand I come along17:35
bombastand change 1 number17:35
bombastI should get to take all the credit?17:35
DarkNekrosno, I'm just saying that if there's more than 1 mantainer, you will credit the latest and the person who make de pkgfile ;)17:36
bombastthat really doesn't work very well17:36
tilmanbombast: for complex pkgfiles, you really should keep Packager intact17:36
bombasttilman: that's the point I was making17:36
tilmanbombast: however, for generic configure/make/make-install stuff i don't think anyone will be upset if you don't give credit17:37
bombasttilman: I was illustrating the point in having the Packager field, while saying the name for it sucks.17:37
* thrice` runs away17:39
DarkNekroswell, that's the point, packager1 - Originator: 017:40
tilmanbombast: tbh, it's not a big deal i think ;D17:40
bombasttilman: Not a big one, but I do think it is one.17:40
thrice`there are better things to worry about :)17:41
tilmanand it's painful to change17:41
bombastIt is?17:41
bombastIs it even looked at by any script?17:41
DarkNekrosa real crux 64bit? /P17:41
bombastDarkNekros: I installed crux64 on a compact flash card last night17:41
bombastcrux being primarily source based, all you need is a 64bit boot media17:42
DarkNekrosbombast, I'm amazed ;)17:42
thrice`i may dump my lappy back to 32-bit.  64 isn't as exciting as hoped on it17:42
bombastMy desktop remains 32bit.17:42
bombastPrimarily because I'm lazy.17:42
bombastAh hell, bbs. Food.17:43
DarkNekrosbombast, sleep time here!! \o/17:44
thrice`huh, reading the LFS book, it seems they've switched from "man" to a program called "mandb"17:47
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bombastthrice`: never heard of it17:55
bombastive considered joining the LFS mailing lists just to keep on the pulse of things17:57
nipuLwho cares about the packager fieds, are we really that vain18:09
bombastno, but all of us wants to share credit18:10
nipuLto me the maintainer field is more about who to complain to when a port is broken rather than who to direct praise to18:10
bombastnipuL: and that's just the thing18:10
bombastyou wouldn't know that just by looking at the Pkgfile for the first time18:10
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bombast the only thing i dislike about screen is I cannot get it to set my term's title no matter what :(19:13
bombastif it weren't for that it'd be perfect19:13
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joacimworks for me19:23
bombastjoacim: does it set it dynamically?19:24
bombastlike if you change directories from within bash/screen it changes your term title?19:24
joacimI dont do fancy stuff like that19:24
joacimthe title says "screen"19:25
joacimand it stays like that until i detach =)19:25
bombastThat's not what I meant.19:25
bombastI'd like apps from within screen to be able to set the term title like they normally would.19:25
joacimmy irssi does that (using the script)19:26
bombastI have that script.19:26
bombastBut it doesn't work within screen19:26
joacimworks for me :p19:27
bombastyou just said it says "screen"19:27
joacimbecause i dont use the script19:27
joacimit gives me that dynamic title stuff when i load it19:27
bombastdoesn't work for me19:28
joacimdo you know any other applications that can set the xterm title?19:29
joacimI know ncmpc can, but i dont use mpd anymore19:29
bombastwell, bash usually does19:29
bombastmy patched mutt does19:29
joacimI use zsh19:29
joacimand I configure my zsh to only print the currently running application in the xterm title19:30
bombastugh there's gotta be a way to change the gimp's icons19:31
bombasti HATE tango19:31
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*** sets mode: +o jaeger20:27
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* jaeger kicks gcc 4.1.0 in the nuts20:32
jaegerI WILL find a version of gcc and an appropriate kernel, damn it20:34
jaegertrying to find the right combination of gcc and whatnot to cross-compile my kernel20:44
bombastlooks like im getting kicked out of my house20:47
joacimThey've must have heard you dont like gui applications written in python20:47
bombastNot they, just my step-dad.20:48
bombastMy mom actually begged me not to move out when I began my university work.20:48
joacimlol you still live with your parents? me too20:49
jaegerI've gotten along with my mom far better since I've lived by myself :)20:50
nipuLmy mum lives in cambodia, which makes getting along with her really easy20:55
bombastme and my mom get along real well21:18
bombastmy step-dad is just an angry angry person21:18
bombastim the youngest and the only one who decided to go to a university21:19
bombaster, it's just a messy situation.21:20
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bombastthe Wikipedia article for Crux is terrible21:35
bombastit claims the only platforms are i586 and i686 and that the default user interface is openbox21:36
nipuLopenbox is the default wm21:37
bombastis it really?21:37
nipuLand officially crux only supports i68621:37
nipuLof course ports for other architectures exist21:38
bombastThat's what I was saying.21:39
bombastIf they want to include unofficial arch21:39
bombastppc and x86_64 need to be added21:39
bombastBecause i586 is unofficial.21:39
nipuLoh right, wikipedia is a haven for 100% accurate articles21:40
nipuLalso the aim is to discourage people from using crux21:42
nipuLotherwise the channel would be full of people asking stupid questions21:42
bombastYeah but for every 100 stupid people, we could net a new ports maintainer.21:42
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jaegeryay, my drives work... time for some dmraid22:05
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barumcan anyone help me with installing xalan-c?22:08
barumI get /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lxalan-c22:08
bombastwhat is xalan-c?22:08
bombastXalan is an XSLT processor for transforming XML documents into HTML, text, or other XML document types.22:08
barumI was installing virtualbox and it's one of the dependencies22:09
aonit's in contrib22:09
bombastif aon says it22:09
bombastit's true22:09
barumdoes that mean I have to ask somewhere else?22:09
aonit's in the contrib repository22:10
jaegerdo you have /usr/lib/
aonthe same place you're installing virtualbox from, supposedly22:10
jaegeryou get that message while building it?22:11
jaegeror while building something else?22:11
barumbuilding xalan-c22:12
jaegerhrmm, very odd. I have it installed here without trouble22:12
barumthis is the last thing before the error22:13
barum -L../../lib -L/usr/ports/work/xalan-c/src/xml-xalan/c/lib -lxalan-c -lm  -lpthread  -L/lib -lxerces-c -L../../lib -lxalanMsg ../../obj/XalanExe.o -o ../../bin/Xalan22:13
bombastbarum: You wouldn't happen to be on 64bit would you?22:13
jaegerbuilding it to test22:14
jaegerit builds fine for me22:26
barumis virtualbox best option for emulation?22:33
bombastbarum: sadly, yes.22:33
nipuLthat would depend on what you're emulating22:34
barumi'm trying to run windows xp22:34
bombastnipuL: a commodore64 obviously22:34
barumokay on the virtualbox website it says:22:38
barumlibxalan (only VBox version < 1.6, Xalan XSL library, depends on Xerces; again, the C++, not the Java version!)22:38
barumdo you think that means libxalan is required for vbox version <1.6?22:39
nipuLthat's what it says to me22:39
nipuLyay, off to stab my child in the arm with an infectious disease22:40
bombasti hope that translates to vacinations22:41
barumbtw how do you guys manage packages not found in ports? (I just installed CRUX a few days ago)22:43
barumdo you write your own Pkgfile or22:43
bombastmy usual process is22:43
bombasti search everyone's ports tree22:44
bombastif i find one i need22:44
bombasti download it to my local tree22:44
bombastand build it22:44
bombastand if i don't22:44
bombasti maike it22:44
barummake your Pkgfile?22:44
bombastive yet to find a single icon theme that themes gimp22:45
bombasti *HATE* tango22:45
jaegerwell, I'm able to create a mirror using dmraid but the box won't boot after I do, oddly22:47
bombastthat's not good!22:48
jaegerit doesn't even get to the boot loader, just freezes up after "Verifying DMI Pool Data..."22:48
jaegerif I reboot and recreate the mirror, I can boot again22:48
jaegersoon as I fdisk it and create a partition it goes back to this22:49
bombasti hate tango so much23:24
bombastim starting to hate gtk because it's becoming impossible to avoid it23:24
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nipuLi find qt to be more invasive23:45
nipuLmost qt application developers have a habit of linking against kde-libs23:45
bombastno doubt23:45
bombastim just saying23:45
bombastfuck tango23:45
nipuLyou're problem against gtk is an icon theme?23:46
bombasti was just being overly dramatic for the sake of saying I hate tango23:46
nipuLso change your icon theme23:47
bombastYeah, that's kind of why I was getting pissed off.23:47
bombastWith GIMP.23:47
bombastYou really can't unless you go out of your way to make your own.23:47
aonluckily i don't usually run any other gtk apps than firefox23:47
bombastI should find a replacement for pidgin23:48
aondon't see icons all that much23:48
aonthat reminds me, i haven't been connected to bitlbee for some time23:48
bombastgnome used to have some REALLY nice icons23:48
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aonhad to install qt3 yesterday23:50
bombastif i ever faced that decision23:50
bombasti'd just shoot myself in the face23:50
aon uses it23:51
aonstrange that a c++ app from 2006 still compiles and runs23:51
jaegersuch a sensationalist23:51
bombastjaeger: I say it more for comedic effect than anything.23:51
nipuLall these weird uses for ham are funny23:53
nipuLi've even seen tcp/ip over ham tunnels23:54
nipuLlol, ham has it's own ip block23:56

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