IRC Logs for #crux Friday, 2009-06-12

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shimshamif any developers/admins are around00:24
shimshamim in the process of setting up a mirror site00:24
shimshami like CRUX but all the mirrors suck00:24
shimshamthe box is in Canada, i guess it can replace shellcode.us00:25
shimshami also tried to provide CRUX virtual private servers, but youd be amazed how dumb people are.00:27
shimsham'ports?! wtf i asked for Linux!'00:27
aoni'm not sure if i'd want crux on a vps00:28
shimshamwhy not?00:28
shimshamfor a low end to medium configuration?00:28
aontoo much upgrading :)00:29
shimshamand i take that back,, is a damn fast mirror00:29
shimshami understand what you're saying00:29
shimshami like CRUX cause it has the ability to be mostly secure out-of-box00:29
shimshami have rare problems with CRUX00:30
shimshami run it on our production hosting server00:30
aoni have centos 4 here :)00:31
shimshami cant do the RPM thing.00:31
shimshamim not a crazy source based gentoo type freak, however, i do not believe that binary package mgmt is the way to go about things00:32
shimshamanyways ill be back when the mirror is done00:42
shimshamand give you guys the info00:42
shimshamits still leeching00:42
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Darknekrosmorning gentlemen ;)01:29
aon"How are you gentlemen !!"01:31
Darknekrosaon, xD01:31
Darknekrosand ladies if you wish ;)01:31
aonwishful thinking01:33
Darknekrosaon, las time I said good morning to ladies and woman, men didn't like it :S01:34
shimshamYou have no chance survive01:38
shimshamMake your time01:38
sepenthat's from #xfce-dev channel's topic: '<JPohlmann> Moe: See, only one of us can ever have a girlfriend. Now it's kelnos' turn ;)'01:38
sepenseems that ladies don't develop on xfce01:39
shimshamxfce is great.01:39
aonare there much ladies hanging out on other wm channels? :)01:40
aon(surprisingly #stumpwm has had a few)01:40
shimshami only know one attractive girl on IRC01:41
shimshamand she doesnt like Linux01:41
RyoS_pro tip: its the fbi01:41
shimshami hate writing html01:42
nipuLthen don't01:42
shimshami need to find someone who will do the work for me in exchange for some hosting services01:42
shimshamnipuL: gotta get it done =/01:42
sepenshimsham, then use a framework01:44
shimshami was thinking about Joomla01:45
shimshami've made a few sites with it01:45
shimshamWhat do you like? Drupal or something?01:45
sepenI prefer to use my own framework and eventually something like js, mootools, etc.01:45
shimshamthe site im working on now is just for a hosting company, it doesnt really need any bells or whistles01:45
shimshamthe customer control panel is ClientExec01:46
shimshamwhich does all the bells and whistles01:46
sepenshimsham, nipuL is using python for all01:46
sepennipuL, right?01:46
shimshamyeah i like my site to load faster than python can provide :>01:46
shimshamatleast hes not using Ruby01:46
nipuLare you claiming django is a slow framework?01:54
nipuLdon't make be beat you to death with benchmarks01:54
sependjango isn't slow, 486 generation's proc is really slow as a server running it ;D01:55
shimshami write all my websites in shell script01:55
sepenshimsham, pfff I hate html-tables instead of div,spam,dd, ...01:57
shimshamsuppose i should finish modding this01:57
shimshamso i can make some $$01:57
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Kwesokyso what wm is popular nowerdays around the CRUX community :)03:22
mike_kKwesoky: whatever you like. CRUX has well maintained XFCE repo, and many simple wm's around.03:24
shimshami always just used fluxbox03:25
shimshamsince i hate waiting for shit to compile03:25
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nipuLi use xmonad03:41
Kwesokyi like xmonad its a pain to build though03:41
Kwesokynot even sure if there any xmonad ports available03:41
* Kwesoky checks 03:41
aonwell, i'm currently on stumpwm due to laziness03:43
aonbut i guess i like ratpoison more03:43
Kwesokyhmm havent used ratpoison in a while03:45
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mike_knipuL: btw, do you think nginx 0.8 branch fits contrib?03:48
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aonKwesoky: it hasn't changed much in a while03:53
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f1yGood morning.04:16
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nipuLmike_k: hmm misread the release info04:25
nipuLi'll roll back to 0.704:25
mike_knipuL: thanks. I use my own port, but others might be surprised.04:26
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cruxbot[contrib.git/2.5]: nginx: update to 0.7.59 (0.8.x is development version)04:31
shimshamoo thats quacktastic04:32
aona machine with xp pro costs less than the license stickers torn off machines04:46
shimshamwindows xp is great04:49
shimshamdont you guys all just love windows/04:49
aoni do04:49
aonwouldn't use the word "love", tho04:49
aonthe only feelings i have towards software is occasional hatred04:49
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tilman:> ?04:53
tek_I don't really get the joke, this sucks :)04:56
tilmanwhat's up?04:57
tek_tek is registered but unused04:57
tilmanso someone stole your nick yesterday?04:59
cruxbot[core.git/2.6]: filesystem: added example fstab lines for ext4.05:01
tek_tilman: it has been registered ever since I /connect ed05:02
tilmantek_: i mean, did someone register it after the recent db purge?05:03
tek_no, before05:03
tek_before the cleanup I got warned via notice that this nick is registered but I still could use it05:03
tek_not so now. so what..05:04
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cruxbot[core.git/2.6]: filesystem: removed the relatime option.05:10
shimshami finished up with my CRUX mirror05:15
shimshamits in Canada05:16
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shimshamits got all the ISO's05:16
tilmanit's a full mirror though?05:17
tilmanor did you hand-pick the files?05:17
shimshamroot@firefly:/home/crux/crux/ > ls05:17
shimshamcrux-2.2  crux-2.3  crux-2.4  crux-2.5  latest05:17
shimshamthats whats on there05:17
shimshamroot@firefly:/home/crux/crux/latest/ > ls05:17
shimshamChangeLog  contrib  iso  sources05:17
tilmani know, i just checked, too :D05:17
tilmanshimsham: are you mirroring using rsync?05:17
shimshamno sir05:17
shimshamyour rsync server is real slow :)05:18
dbboltoncould anyone help me diagnose a kernel panic? i just got the error about VFS and not able to mount root filesystem immediately at boot, even thought i built ext3 support into my kernel0 the only filesystem on my disk05:18
treachwhat about the controller?05:18
shimshamyou sure you're mounting the right device?05:18
dbboltonshould be, specified the right partition in lilo.conf05:19
shimshamwhen i was setting up my HP Proliants i thought i was forgetting the FS too05:19
shimshamjust forgot that its /dev/cciss/c0d0p105:19
shimshaminstead of /dev/sda105:19
dbboltonmine is an old deskstar ide drive05:20
dbboltonjust for kicks i tried to boot the debian stable vmlinuz image and it panicked too05:21
shimshamare there any IDE error05:21
shimshambefore it panics?05:21
dbboltonno, it just says bios check successful, or something, then the panic05:21
shimshamsounds like its booting with 'quiet'05:21
shimshammake sure quiet isnt specified in the LILO/Grub options05:22
dbboltonyeah, that was in the lilo.conf by default, so i left it05:22
dbboltoni'll try removing it05:22
shimshamit might give us some insight05:22
shimshaminto wtf is going on05:22
cruxbot[core.git/2.6]: lilo: fixed bad indentation in lilo.conf.05:23
cruxbot[core.git/2.6]: filesystem: updated .md5sum for recent fstab changes.05:23
dbboltonhmm, interesting timing05:23
dbboltoni'm actually installing freebsd on that hard drive now to test the system. i'm going to try a clean install of crux on another one05:24
tilmanshimsham: i just added your mirror. thanks :)05:24
shimshamaha awesome05:24
shimshamnow you can remove some non working ones05:24
dbboltoni'm also using the 586 port. i don't think there is any bug tracking for it, right?05:25
shimshami just know doesnt work05:25
tilmanah, okay05:25
tilmanstraw: is your mirror? it's b0rked05:26
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sepentek_, contrib/bind has a md5sum mismatch with named.root source file06:15
tilmanthrice`: did you repack all of the packages on the iso with xz? remember how much it slimmed the iso down?06:17
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juetilman: I'd say we can save around 50-60MiB (rough calculation)06:23
tilmanthat would be nice06:24
tilman_if_ we decide to try that, we need to measure how much ram is needed to extract those tarballs :)06:24
jueyeah, good point06:24
tilmanand/or find out whether the compression level has a direct influence on the memory needed for decompression06:25
jueif there is a linear dependency, we can forget about it IMO06:28
tilmanjue: depends on how large the largest package is on the iso :)06:29
tilmanxulrunner is 18 mb atm06:30
shimshamyou guys ever consider having a seperate CRUX-Hardened version06:32
shimshamcomes with grsec+pax, no default suid files, fs's all come mounted with nosuid06:33
shimshamand /tmp, /dev/shm are noexec06:33
shimshamsometimes basic shit goes a long way06:33
tilmannobody brought that up yet06:33
shimshamand also a port to build apache with mpm-peruser06:34
shimshamwould be nice06:34
shimshamalso not sure if you know06:34
shimshambut the last time i used the CRUX/x86-6406:35
shimshamit was completely fucked and didnt boot06:35
shimsham(about 3 months ago)06:35
tilmanwhich iso did you use?06:35
tilmanthe one from or the one from
shimshamone i downloaded from latest'06:35
shimshamon ecarux06:35
shimshamthere was some typos in the init scripts06:36
shimshamif you guys need help scripting anything06:36
shimshami can help with that06:36
tilmanecarux' version isn't very popular around here i think06:37
tilmanand we don't really have any contact at all with him06:37
shimshamclearly, it doesnt work :)06:37
shimshamyeah i just ended up sticking regular CRUX on tehre06:37
shimshamand the box still lives today06:37
tilmanthat's rehabdoll's x86_64 iso06:37
juetilman: yeah, had xulrunner in mind, so we have to expect 128 mb ram usage in the worst case06:37
shimshami'd love to06:37
shimshambut the server is already configured and up06:38
shimshamno downtime allowed06:38
tilmanjue: because it's twice as large as coreutils-foo.xz?06:38
tilmanjue: i'm debugging unxz now to see what value it's estimating06:38
tilmanjue: the estimate is 8 mb for xulrunner.tar.xz compressed at level 606:41
tilmantrying with level 9 now06:42
tilmanjue: 64 mb needed at level 906:45
thrice`tilman: yes, I think ~30% or so06:56
thrice`I didn't actually re-create packages; just gunzip'd them all, and re-compressed with xz (left them compressed with tar)06:56
tilmanyeah, that's what i meant06:57
thrice`it seemed like 50 MB or so06:57
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thrice`mm, I see your bug is no longer visible for libarchive ?06:59
tilmanvektori o/06:59
vektoriHey :)06:59
thrice`oh, I see it got fixed :)06:59
tilmanthrice`: yeah, he committed a fix06:59
thrice`neat :>07:05
shimshamsomeone should make a 'dsniff' port too07:06
shimshamah there is one07:07
shimshamstupid me07:07
thrice`someone = you ? ;)07:08
nipuLit's in contrib07:08
nipuLthat's almost slapworthy07:08
shimshamyou telling me its in contrib after i said twice i found it07:09
shimshamis slapworthy07:09
thrice`nah, it's our job to make you feel bad for silly things07:09
shimshami am a crux mirror maintainer! you will respect me!!! :PPP07:10
shimshamjust kidding, keep the CRUX comming and we're even07:10
nipuLwow, that weekly rsync cron job must really take it out of you :)07:10
thrice`yes, definitely; now I feel bad!!1 :>\07:10
thrice`shimsham: you use crux too ?07:13
shimshamfor a while nw07:13
shimshami also tried something called ArchLinux which is supposed to be the 'new crux'07:14
shimshambut i still like CRUX better07:14
thrice`i've tried arch once without much luck07:15
shimshamits OK, its package mgmt 'pacman' is supposed to be the best07:15
nipuLarch is a mess at the moment07:15
nipuLalso every time i try it, i seem to hose my libc by just doing a system update07:16
tilmanshimsham: recently someone posted a link to the arch forum where some guy managed to break the local package database by running some upgrade07:16
tilmanbecause pacman decided to segfault07:16
nipuLalso lack of a rejmerge like tool is a pain07:16
shimshamam i crazy or is not resolving07:17
nipuLlooks like it's down07:18
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strawtilman: My bad. Http and rsync are working again!07:56
treachmore crux for the masses. :>07:58
shimsham15 mirrors up now07:59
treachmore mirrors than users soon. :D07:59
thrice`our irc channel is growing still too, it seems08:00
thrice`yeah, some loser^W^W people leave crux for silly things like Suse; qutie sad :(08:00
thrice`d'oh, quite *08:00
tilmantreach: that's only funny if crux users make the joke08:01
treachoh, sorry. I'll make a reapperance with it when I eventually get to a point where using crux is once again feasable for me. :)08:02
thrice`on the xz note, I saw lzma compression as an option for kernel compression in 2.6.30 :)08:02
vektoriWhy isn't it feasible now?08:02
treachhi vektori, not enough time/energy.08:03
vektoriOkay :P08:03
tilmanthrice`: yeah. i didn't test how much it slows down the booting though08:03
thrice`I think I left gzip; kernel size didn't seem too important08:03
shimshamsomeone left CRUX for SuSE?08:03
shimshamthats OK. We didnt want him anyways.08:04
tilmanshimsham: i won't tell you who it was to protect the guilty :D08:04
tilmannah, he's a good guy :P08:04
thrice`only confused currently ;>08:04
thrice`I did notice some slight UXA improvements in 2.6.30 on my intel :)08:08
tilmani noticed my intel now comes up with 50% backlight or something08:08
treachUn eXploded Ammunition? ;p08:08
tilmanunified acceleration architecture08:08
treachoh, drat, I was thinking of UXO08:09
tilmani thin it's unified08:09
tilmanuxa is for UMA devices08:09
tilmanunified memory architecture08:09
tilmanie, no separate vram08:09
treachkidding, kidding. ;)08:09
thrice`not something classy like "ultimate?" :)08:09
treachwaiting for the GEM/KMS thing to apply to something else than intel. :/08:10
thrice`I thought radeon was close?  I think I read fedora ships it in their new release08:10
treachI thought so too, but I couldn't test it, since I didn't feel like doing a net install, and for some reson my laptop won't boot from dvds anymore. :/08:11
treachCD's are fine though. :>08:11
treachhardware defence against thoughtless installation of unsafe sw, maybe. :P08:12
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tilmantreach: 2.6.31 will have kms for radeon as a staging driver08:18
tilmanand apparently fedora 11 already ships with that one enabled08:18
treachpre-staging area enabled. Jup, that's fedora. :D08:19
thrice`they did that with intel too, didn't they ?08:19
tilmanit's only going in staging for 2.6.31 because they are afraid it might be broken but it's good enough for fedora08:19
tilmanthrice`: i think so08:19
sepenvektori, nice to see you ;D08:25
vektoriHi sepen, long time no see :)08:25
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jaegerheh, nice10:19
thrice`wow, next ubuntu will ship with grub2 as default10:40
tilmani see you're busy at work again thrice` :D10:41
thrice`actually, I get to ditch work today to go sailing with a colleague from Japan :>10:42
tilmanGRUB 2 targets at the following goals:10:42
tilman* Scripting support, such as conditionals, loops, variables and functions.10:42
tilmani'm confused. is this a bootloader?10:42
treachgood question.10:42
tilman* Internationalization10:42
tilmanit's not.10:42
thrice`the bootloader to end them all10:42
jesse_The grand bootloader to end all bootloaders.10:43
aon* Mail reader10:44
aon* Emacs10:44
tilmanwhy exactly did we get so excited about lzma?10:54
tilmannobody uses it o_O10:54
tilmanmaybe 6..7 gnu projects10:54
treachsmaller iso? :>11:00
tilmanthe smaller-iso bit was only brought up recently11:02
treachok, I was just trying to find some benefit. :P11:03
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pedjatilman: (FF update).11:11
tilmanpedja: crap, i forgot about that. sorry.11:12
pedjanp :)11:12
pedjaI played with 3.5b4, and it froze with Flash video.not a good sign for 3.5 ;)11:14
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tilman-       make13:51
tilman+       make -j313:51
tilmanpedja: please put export MAKEFLAGS=-j3 in pkgmk.conf instead13:51
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pedjatilman: oops14:27
pedjaI forgot about that14:28
cruxbot[opt.git/2.5]: [notify] xulrunner: updated to
cruxbot[opt.git/2.5]: firefox: updated to
tilmanpedja: thanks for the patches14:36
pedjanp, sorry for the -j3 part, little experiment :)(will xulrunner bomb out)14:37
pedjasome apps are picky about that, aren't they?14:38
pedjaany rule of thumb for that, or it's trial and error?14:39
tilmanpedja: you should have just asked14:39
tilmanit would have saved you 20+ minutes of waiting :D14:39
tilmanpedja: parallel builds work most of the time14:39
pedjatbh, it never occured to me to actually ask :)14:40
tilmannow to merge the xulrunner update into 2.6...14:41
pedjaso, bottom line, it's safeish to add export MAKEFLAGS=j3 to pkgmk.conf ?14:41
tilmanpedja: rumour has it that num_cores * 2 is best14:42
* tilman uses -j 4 on a dual core system14:42
tilmanpedja: export MAKEFLAGS="-j 4"14:42
pedjaI'll try that, but I rhink I saw somewhere '(number_cores*2)-1'.14:43
pedjacan't remember where, though14:44
* aon has seen $cores+114:44
tilmanthat's the same people who tell you to use -O9 with gcc :>14:44
tilmanjust kidding14:44
aonwell, yes14:44
vektoriMy gcc goes to -O11!14:44
aonactually i've seen cores+1 in gentoo manual14:45
aonin 2003ish14:45
tilmanthere's some package that uses -O4 or something14:45
tilmanmaybe mplayer, don't remember14:45
aonvektori: why didn't you just make -O10 more optimized?14:45
pedjamplayer...only package I can't build under fakeroot14:45
tilmanis it O the letter or 0 the number?14:45
aonthat joke doesn't work with terminus14:46
tilmandoesn't work with smooth either14:46
tilmanbut i know that you know the joke, so.14:46
vektoriaon: ...this one goes to eleven.14:46
pedjaif -j4 works with boost, I'll be a happy bunny.14:47
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tek_sepen: thnx15:04
cruxbot[contrib.git/2.5]: bind: updated named.root15:05
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cruxbot[opt.git/2.6]: [notify] xulrunner: updated to
cruxbot[opt.git/2.6]: firefox: updated to
cruxbot[opt.git/2.6]: Merge branch '2.5' into 2.615:46
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cruxbot[core.git/2.6]: libusb-compat: update to 0.1.216:16
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cruxbot[opt.git/2.5]: mysql: udpate to 5.0.8316:29
cruxbot[opt.git/2.5]: ocaml: udpate to 3.11.116:29
cruxbot[opt.git/2.5]: nvidia: udpate to 185.18.1416:29
shimshamsomeone here in the USA16:30
shimshamthink they can do me a favor?16:30
shimshami seem to have lost my mobile phone16:30
shimshamits in here16:30
shimshami just need someone to call it16:30
shimshamplease? i need to get lunch :)16:31
tilmanshort distance ringing is more gratis than high distance ringing? ;D16:32
aonisn't all ringing gratis if nobody answers?16:32
tilmanaon: my point16:32
vektoriYou'd never know, what with having to pay for receiving an SMS in the states...16:32
shimshami just need to make it ring!16:33
shimshamso i can hear it16:33
tilmani'm a bit afraid some crazy ass telco would toll me for relaying the ring :D16:33
aonso give the number including international area code16:33
tilmanshimsham: # ?16:33
shimsham1 sec16:33
shimshami msgd you the nmber16:34
tilmanactually i don't know how to enter + in this dialer16:34
aonwell jesus crhsit :D16:34
tilmani don't have a phone, i have a freerunner16:34
aonwithut typos16:34
aoni have several nokias here which i don't pay for :)16:35
shimshamill hve someone else call16:35
tilmanshimsham: figured it out. still need the call?16:37
shimshamgot it16:38
shimshamit was behind the couch somehow16:38
jaegercurse you, phone-eating couch!16:41
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claretilman: I have a freerunner, do others here have one too?17:46
aondid cptn have one too?18:08
jaegerIs that one of the openmoko phones?18:17
aon"linux on a phone - because symbian just isn't bad enough"18:18
jaegermy first thought was Parkour18:18
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claretilman: will ask you about freerunner later; time to clean horseyards. bye all18:38
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aondamn urxvt wont compile on 2.618:53
nipuLsame here, i've seen that compiler error a few times, it's pretty easy to fix18:57
aoni'm drunk so i won't fix anything18:58
nipuLno balmer effect?19:00
j^2hey anyone around?19:02
j^2hey aon :D19:02
j^2i got a dumb question but i cant figure it out19:02
j^2grep 4-4-0 * | sed 's/4-4-0/4-4-1/'19:02
j^2but i want those changes to stick19:02
j^2with -i in sed it doesnt say there's any input files...19:03
aonsed -i 's/4-4-0/4-4-1/' *19:03
j^2*face palm*19:03
j^2thanks aon19:04
aon02:58 <@aon> i'm drunk so i won't fix anything19:04
j^2it's 1902 here, and i'm still at work19:04
nipuL10:15 saturday19:16
aonyeah, sat too, obviously19:17
nipuLgot the house to myself, feel like hacking on something but nothing's motivating me19:17
nipuLi'll probably just end up pissing the monring away on reddit19:18
shimshamEnough is enough! I have had it with these motherfucking linux on this motherfucking cellphone!19:22
shimshamsnakes on plane -- linux on a phone19:23
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strawshimsham: Android is quite awesome ;)19:35
shimshamits just a fad19:42
shimshamim into future fads19:42
shimshamrunning CRUX on my microwave19:42
nipuLnot as silly as it sounds19:45
shimshamhaha ofcourse it would be NetBSD19:45
shimshami always joked netbsd would run on a toaster19:45
aonisn't that like eighteen thousand years old19:46
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* straw nods19:57
nipuLaee: yes, but not everyone is that old20:16
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