IRC Logs for #crux Wednesday, 2009-09-23

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pitillogood morning01:08
aonmorning01:09
pitillo:)01:14
Teminian_RobinAfternoon. :)01:17
pitillo:)01:17
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tilmanmorngng01:27
pitillo:)01:27
eintopfmorning01:28
pitillodoes someone know how to copy from a qemu console? (if it's possible)01:34
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pitilloseems to be needed some kind of guest adition (or by serial console). Sorry if I disturbed someone01:42
Teminian_RobinAny minimalistic web browser for recommendation?01:47
Teminian_RobinI'm safely landed with my Enlightenment E16, but I don't think Firefox is that much simple.01:48
tilmanthere's arora01:48
pitilloe16... long time01:48
Teminian_Robinarora?01:50
Teminian_RobinLet me try.01:52
grafzeroMorning.01:52
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sepenmorning all02:07
teK_hello02:13
dru1dhey02:14
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juemorning03:17
cruxbot[opt.git/2.6]: gtk-engines: update to 2.18.303:30
cruxbot[opt.git/2.6]: samhain: update to 2.5.9b03:30
cruxbot[core.git/2.6]: dhcpcd: update to 5.1.103:31
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nipuLuzbl is quite minimal03:53
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juenipuL: btw, sorry for the confusion I caused wrt your break, I looked only at your additions to OrphanedPorts and don't read your email carefully04:02
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fhoTeminian_Robin: uzbl is minimal:)06:58
Teminian_Robinuzbi.06:58
fhouzbl06:58
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Teminian_Robinuzbl.....07:02
Teminian_RobinJeffJohnson: I've looked around, but it's too minimal for me to use(.....).07:02
Teminian_RobinThanks anyway.07:02
Zabasuckless' surf is minimal07:06
Teminian_RobinWell, I think I'll settle on arora.07:08
Teminian_RobinI like WebKit(so I use Google Chrome in my Windows Vista).07:08
rehabdollive never used vista. is it as sucky as everybody says?07:09
Teminian_RobinI don't think so.07:09
Teminian_RobinI've just turned off UAC(User Access Control).07:09
Teminian_RobinAnd everything was good.07:10
rehabdollthe last ms os i had installed was win2k07:10
rehabdolloh, running as root is a great idea :)07:10
rehabdollUAC seems to me as the most useful thing in vista07:10
Teminian_RobinIn what sense?07:10
rehabdolluh, not running as root? :)07:10
nipuLBS, vista is  POS07:11
Teminian_Robin:P07:11
nipuLPiece Of Shit07:11
rehabdollxp is truly a piece of shit07:12
rehabdolli always get to clean out everyones infested xp install07:12
rehabdollsooooooooo much fun07:12
Teminian_RobinIn Korea due to too much dependency on ActiveX I've got to use Windows anyway.07:12
Teminian_Robin-_-07:12
rehabdollfor what, banking?07:13
Teminian_RobinBanking, commerce, web page design(IE-specific tags and script grammars),07:13
Teminian_Robin.....07:13
Teminian_Robingovernmental services,07:14
Teminian_Robinetc.07:14
jseuzbl has been great so far. I'm digging its minimalism.07:21
thrice`I haven't tried that one yet07:21
nipuLi use it on my netbook07:21
jsewebkit is a painful compile though because my desktop is getting very old.07:22
nipuLit can be a bit slow though07:22
nipuLas it has to spawn a process everytime is sets/reads a cookie07:22
thrice`O.o07:23
nipuLbut there is a new socket based communication system being implemented07:23
thrice`that's a webkit thing, no?07:23
nipuLuzbl is based on webkit07:24
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nipuLbut it only uses it for rendering07:24
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thrice`oh, ok07:24
Teminian_RobinI've installed arora.07:26
Teminian_Robin.....07:26
Teminian_RobinAnd.....07:26
Teminian_RobinAll the characters are squares. :P07:27
Teminian_RobinI'm installing all the fonts in X now. Maybe it will help.07:27
thrice`I usually just install ttf-bitstream-vera07:28
Teminian_Robinvera is already installed.07:28
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jaegerI don't have any particular problems with xp or vista but I'm not a typical "click everything I see and install everything I get in my email" user08:17
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* thrice` wonders if new gtk stack is safe08:48
tilmanoh god08:49
tilmanmore work08:49
tilmanthrice`: i don't think it's safe08:49
tilmangnihi08:49
tilmanwait08:49
thrice`will you compile all of gnome to test?  I'd feel better ;)08:49
tilmanthrice`: gtk 2.18 isn't out yet apparently08:49
tilmanjust new glib afaics?08:50
thrice`http://ftp.gnome.org/pub/gnome/sources/gtk+/2.18/gtk+-2.18.0.tar.bz2   seems OK08:50
thrice`are .0 releases generally good?08:50
tilmanoh08:50
tilmanit's not on www.gtk.org08:50
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thrice`aah08:54
thrice`then maybe it's still dangerous :)08:54
tilmanpff, no changelog files yet on the file server08:54
aonanything on gnome.org is dangerous08:54
jaegerthat's a bit of a brash statement08:55
thrice`isn't glib making its way into the core these days?08:55
thrice`I think udev stuff will need it eventually08:55
tilmanno way08:55
tilmanwe could have opt/udev-extras though08:56
tilman:]08:56
jaegerhrmm, I wonder if any crux users are actually using gnome these days08:56
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thrice`considering switching? :>08:57
tilmani wonder if there's any crux users out sde the #crux poulation08:57
jseI can hardly wait for the integration of qt and gtk into udev. That makes so much sense I'm paralyzed at the thought. :>08:57
jaegerthrice`: just wondering if I should bother to update it08:57
* aon is on windows08:57
tilmanjse: glib, not gtk08:57
aonand using the sane wm's on linux generally08:57
jaegerI still use it but I don't ever receive bug reports, complaints, suggestions, etc.08:57
thrice`maybe it's perfect :)08:58
aonisn't it general unix knowledge that "no feedback == success"08:58
thrice`I like to try out the latest gnome release, but usually boot a ubuntu CD in a VM or something instead of compiling it08:58
jaegerthat's understandable08:58
jaegeraon: perhaps so, hehe08:59
aoni think the last gnome i've used is 2.6 or something08:59
jaegerI know it isn't perfect because some things like automounting CDs don't work in the current ports... but I haven't bothered to look into it since nobody complained :P08:59
tilmanautomounting media is for noobs08:59
tilman;)08:59
thrice`haha09:00
thrice`I have a right-click to mount in the openbox menu, does that count? :)09:00
tilmanno, that's not automatic09:01
thrice`but it's kinda noob-like09:01
tilmanokay09:02
tilmanyou're officially noob-like09:02
thrice`:O09:02
rehabdolli automount some usb-keys via udev :(09:03
jaegernoob....ish?09:03
tilmansomewhat noob-likeish09:03
jaegernooblike leanings09:04
tilmanmaybe that was too harsh09:07
thrice`I acked hal last night from my system.  It had 9 processes going or something09:07
jseI've kept both hal and dbus off my systems.09:10
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jaegerhrmm... the dvd drive on my MSI laptop spins up and down constantly in linux now09:12
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jaegermaybe it's just a bad drive09:16
thrice`hal is doing it?09:17
jaegerhal isn't installed :)09:17
jaegerthat was the first thing I looked for09:17
thrice`yeah, maybe it's polling was going crazy :)09:18
jaegerI'd prefer that to bad hardware09:18
jaegerI'm seeing I/O errors in the log now, though, so I'm thinking it's hardware09:18
jaegerIt makes no difference what disc is in the drive09:18
mike_khdparm was not used to modify drive's defaults, right?09:21
jaegerright09:22
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jaegerI'm gonna take it out and attach it to another machine, see if it still gives me trouble09:23
jaegerwell, at least it won't be hard to find a replacement if I need to09:24
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jaegerit does spin up and down in windows but I don't know if that's because the disc is "mounted" or what09:38
jaegerer, doesn't09:38
jaegerno firmware update available, unfortunately09:38
jaegeron a side note, ext3 bitching about the superblock mount time being in the future every time the clock changes between UTC and local is pissing me off09:44
jarmmm cheap beer!10:05
jari hate when hipsters latch onto someone i like10:07
jarD:10:07
jarluckily there's not many hipsters here10:10
aonlol10:15
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jarlol sup aon10:16
aonnot much10:16
aonphp10:16
jarim sorry10:16
jar:D10:16
jarat least you're not using a hipster language like ruby ;)10:17
aonthis course happens to be in php10:17
jaruniversity?10:18
aonyes10:18
jarneato10:18
jari have to learn flash for a class of mine so you win10:18
aonhttp://www.cs.uta.fi/wo/wo2009/index.php?app=news&id=about10:18
aonnot very well-formed english :)10:18
jari didn't realize you were finnish10:19
aonyeah, it's very hard to realize10:19
jarlol10:19
jarhaha10:19
aonnot evident from my whois, or anything10:19
jar"Like it or hate it, it's here to stay" (XML)10:20
jar:D10:20
jarLike or hate, no room for love10:20
tilmanaon: i thought .fi was florida10:20
jarI thought .fi French Islands?!10:20
jarwas*10:21
aonwoudln't florida be fl?10:21
jar^ truth10:21
tilmanaon: yes, but i couldn't think of anything else10:22
jarNever sneak up on a man who's been in a chemical fire!10:23
jaegerhrmm... irssi's /upgrade is pretty slick10:23
jarAgreed.10:24
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joacimmy irssi always crashed when I did that10:25
jarthat sucks10:25
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jaegerthis was the first time I'd used it, seems to work with this version10:29
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aoni used it when migrating from 0.8.9 to 0.8.10 iirc10:51
aonworked back then10:51
jaegeryay, imported my ports svn into git successfully, it seems11:01
thrice`is there a working ports driver ?11:07
thrice`git ports driver *11:07
thrice`(kinda unrelated)11:07
jaegerno idea here, I export my repo to rsync anyway11:08
rehabdolldidnt segfault atleast11:08
rehabdolljar: if red stripe tastes like shit, you die11:15
thrice`it does11:15
thrice`well, more like "piss" than shit,but11:15
aonheh11:16
aonrehabdoll: how much'11:16
aond you pay for red stripe?11:16
rehabdoll13.90 sek11:17
rehabdoll33cl11:17
rehabdollif it does taste like piss, i also bought some porter and ale to wash it down with11:18
aonoh11:20
aonwell that's quite cheap11:20
aonhere it's 3.90e/0.33l11:20
aon:D11:20
rehabdollouch11:22
aonwhich is quite a lot more than some actually good beers11:22
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rehabdollArboga 10.2%/50cl costed me 18.90SEK11:22
aonbeer is that cheap in sweden? :o11:23
rehabdolli guess :)11:23
aonhttp://tinyurl.com/lz7ofa vs http://www.alko.fi/tuotteet/fi/79564611:24
aonugh11:24
aoneven reindeerpiss is cheaper :(11:25
rehabdollholy shit11:31
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rehabdolli thought we were the worst in the world11:31
thrice`I'd have to convert it to our dying USD :)11:32
thrice`for red stripe, ours is probably $6 for 6, 12 oz (33cl -ish) bottles11:32
rehabdollwtf?11:32
rehabdolloh, 6 of them11:32
tilmanthrice`: git driver is kinda pointless imo11:45
tilmanwho wants to be able to 'git log /usr/ports/whatever'?11:45
* aon just has a script to update the repositories11:45
tilman+ local clone size will explode11:45
thrice`what if I host my ports on github or something? :)11:45
tilmanthen you fail11:46
* aon also points prt-get at /home/aon/dev/crux/git/...11:46
tilmanask me for hosting instead11:46
aoni could uninstall ports, never use it for anything :)11:46
thrice`lol11:46
thrice`I agree, though :)  kinda silly11:46
aoni wonder how well git works on windows11:47
tilmanokayish11:47
tilmani used msysgit about 14 months ago11:48
aoncool11:49
tilman\n\r vs \n is an issue11:50
tilmanfirst thing to do: set core.autocrlf to true11:50
tilmanotherwise you'll enter a world a pain11:50
tilman(not sure i got the name of that config variable right, you better google it)11:51
aonyou did11:51
aonalthough, why?11:51
aonshould be ok if you want to write and read crlf's?11:52
tilmansay you're cloning a repo with source code written by sane people (in *nix environments)11:52
tilmanie they added files with lineending = \n11:52
aonyeah, won't probably happen :)11:52
tilmanif you clone it in windows, git might mess up all the line endings11:53
aonalthough there's not much harm done either, emacs can handle both :)11:53
thrice`see, I'd probably mess up the repos which such assumptions :D11:53
tilmanand tell you you changed the whole damn file ;)11:53
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jaegerI wonder if I can make git-svn convert the tags directory in svn to branches in git12:23
tilmanyou can make it convert the tags directory to tags, and the branches directory to branches12:24
tilmaniirc12:24
jaegerooh, seems like it's pretty easy12:24
jaegergonna try that12:24
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jaegerit created some odd stuff12:28
tilmanwell12:28
jaegerturns the tags into branches called tags/<branch> and a couple called trunk@<rev>12:28
tilmandid you use tags/ as branches? :p12:28
jaegershouldn't be too hard to fix, just odd12:29
tilmanie, did you commit to a tag after you created it?12:29
tilmanif you did that might confuse git-svn maybe?12:29
jaegerI've never specifically tagged anything, just specified tags/ as tags, branches/ as branches12:29
jaegerdoing something like http://www.gitready.com/advanced/2009/02/16/convert-git-svn-tag-branches-to-real-tags.html12:30
tilmani meant when you were (only) using svn directly12:30
jaegeryeah, that was meant to answer both things, really12:30
tilmanerr. mso tags is empty? ;)12:30
jaegersince svn just lets you put whatever wherever12:30
tilmanso*12:31
tilmanwell12:31
tilmanjaeger: i've only read about that feature, never used it :(12:31
jaegerit's just odd, not really a problem12:32
jaegerIt does make me want to think about how I plan to structure the repo in git12:33
thrice`like tagging gnome releases?12:34
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jaegeryeah, exactly12:34
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jaegerThis would be easier if I knew the real difference between branches and tags and why you'd use one over the other...12:39
* jaeger Rs TFM12:39
tilmana tag is just a label12:39
spaceninjano, X stopped working after I rejmerged, it was updating some font stuff, then I saw that the vera font stopped working, so I restared my computer. But when X and slim starts, I get //dpaste.com/97291/ in dmesg12:40
tilmantagging a revision is like attaching a post-it that says "this revision is what gnome released as v 1.2.3"12:40
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tilmanyou cannot edit the tagged version or anything, it's just a label12:40
tilmana branch is a separate line of development12:40
tilmantrunk/master are just branches with a special name :)12:41
jaegerso it's good to have a tag that just signifies some useful point-in-time... like a crux 2.6 release12:41
tilmanyes12:41
jaegerbranches continue development12:41
tilmanyes12:41
jaegerok, thanks12:41
tilmanwhich is why subversion's tag handling is a bit ... strange12:41
tilmansvn allows you to keep committing changes in foo/tags/gnome12312:41
tilmanwhich really doesn't make much sense12:41
jaegeryeah, that's odd12:42
tilmanif you wanted to apply a bugfix to that tagged release, you would:12:42
tilman* branch off the code from the tag12:42
tilman* commit the bugfix in the branch12:42
jaegerI didn't do development in tags/*, just copied a branches/X to tags/X when I wanted a tag12:42
tilmanyou'l leave the tag untouched12:42
jaegerbut subversion didn't enforce any of that, of course12:42
jaegeryou don't have to create a new tag to replace the original one? just branch the tag, apply fix, commit that branch?12:43
jaegerwhat do you do with that extra branch afterwards? leave it alone? delete it?12:43
tilmanthe original gnome123 tag will keep on pointing to the original revision when you finished gnome123 integration12:43
tilmansay the branch is called gnome123-hotfix-for-bug-4212:44
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jaegerso you'd have to check out the new branch to get the bugfixes, not the original tag, right?12:44
tilmanyou'd additionally create another tag called bug42fixed, which would point at the commit in branches/gnome123-hotfix-for-bug-4212:44
jaegerok, got it12:44
tilmanyeah, because tags are immutable12:44
tilmanif you want a 'moving target', follow a branch12:44
jaegerok, that makes sense, I just misunderstood from what you were saying initially12:45
tilmansorry =)12:45
jaegernot your fault, I'm still a newbie when it comes to proper VC practices12:45
tilmanwith crux ports it's getting a bit more complicated12:46
tilmansince we're usually using branches only to distinguish crux versions12:46
tilmanyou could of course call your branches '2.5-gnome20', '2.5-gnome22' etc12:46
jaegerhrmm, true12:47
tilman_or_ you decide that you will only ever make ports for the current crux release12:47
tilmaneg in my private ports repo i only use the master branch12:47
tilmanin your case that would mean you have branches called 'gnome20', 'gnome22' etc12:48
jaegerright12:48
tilmani think i'd go with X.Y-gnomeAB12:50
jaegerthat would be my preference as well, just trying to decide if I want to maintain multiple releases :)12:50
thrice`yeah, I don't see a point in separating crux releases too12:52
tilmanit's helpful when you want to adapt ports for a soon-to-be-released crux version12:52
tilmanthen you can still apply fixes to the stable version, and do radical insane improvements in the development branch12:52
thrice`yeah, that's true12:54
thrice`but then again, gnome releases only occur every 6 months :)12:54
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* jaeger gives jhbuild another try13:25
thrice`trying 2.28?13:35
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jaegernah, sticking with 2.26, just curious if the build process is cleaner these days than last time I checked it out13:47
rehabdolljar: do you really like red stripe?13:56
thrice`haha13:56
rehabdollim sorry, but it is the worst beer i have ever tasted13:56
tilmanrehabdoll: please don't give him a reason to talk about beer13:56
rehabdolli could not even finish it13:56
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rehabdollright, sorry13:59
Rotwangrehabdoll: imma really happy for you and im gonna let you finish, but "super mocne" from "Jabłonowo" brewery is the wors beer of all time! ALL TIME!14:00
Rotwangworst*14:00
Rotwangit was distributed in plastic bottles and had 10% alcohol14:01
Rotwangit was really ugly14:01
Rotwangbuut i drank it because it was cheap and strong ;f14:01
rehabdollwow, its actually possible to brew something even more disgusting?14:01
rehabdollthats quite an achievement14:01
aonhaha14:01
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aonhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilju14:01
rehabdollDue to its low cost and simple making method kilju is a relatively common beverage among students and alcoholics.14:06
rehabdolli thought students and alcoholics was the same thing14:07
tilmanas they say, every student is an alcoholic14:07
tilmanbut not every alcoholic is a student14:07
rehabdollahh, an important distinction14:08
Rotwangindeed14:08
Rotwangbut cheap wines are around 1 Euro here14:10
Rotwangso making your own doesn't pay off really [;14:11
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tilmannipuL: can the body of this function be simplified or shortened using some monad magic? http://965efe0a434802b9.paste.se/14:24
rehabdollcool, i just found a 400gb disk in my box that i had forgotten about14:27
joacimwhere I live alcoholics drink those big 1.5 liter beer bottles called Pokal14:28
joacimstudents tend to go with Tuborg14:28
aonthe for-real alcoholics i know tend to stick to cheap vodka14:29
Rotwangand cheap wine14:30
Rotwangive heard good way to get drunk quickly14:30
aoni guess fortified wine too, but some of those seem like they're sold as a joke14:30
thrice`and get a good hangover ;>14:30
Rotwang1) pour some vodka on some material (piece of something that absorbs liquid)14:31
Rotwang2) stick it up your ass14:31
Rotwangalcohol will go straight to your blood system14:32
aonit probably won't feel too good tho14:32
aonand seems like a pretty pointless exercise anyway14:33
Rotwangnever tried it myself tho14:33
aoni can't drink alone at home anyway so i kinda have to consume booze the normal way14:35
joacim"something really awful and the crew wouldn't even drink it."14:35
joacimhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonshine#Norway14:35
aoni should make moonshine some day14:36
aonjust to keep up the tradition14:36
aonmy grandma has made it :)14:37
rehabdollhehe14:47
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cruxbot[opt.git/2.6]: [notify] mpeg2dec: dropped in favour of libmpeg215:34
cruxbot[opt.git/2.6]: libmpeg2: initial import (thx acrux)15:34
tilmanteK_: prt-get deptree scummvm|grep mpeg2dec :P15:35
teK_fuck15:36
teK_thx.15:36
teK_i'm stupid :P15:36
tilmandoes scummvm work with libmpeg2?15:36
* jaeger looks at a graphviz gnome dep tree and cries a bit15:37
tilmanthere there15:37
cruxbot[opt.git/2.6]: scummvm: replace mpeg2dec dependency with libmpeg215:40
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thrice`lol16:28
thrice`hm, handbrake requires webkit for it's "help documentation" only.  wtf?16:29
* jaeger sighs16:29
thrice`also, clicking help -> about launches FF16:29
jaegerI wish --disable-gtk-doc actually worked16:29
jaegerever16:32
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thrice`jaeger: me too.  evince can now build without any gnome deps, but will bitch about gnome-doc-utils  even when --disable-all-fucking-docs  is added16:34
jaegerso lame16:35
jaegerI can't even build libsoup in jhbuild because their gtk-doc autoconf shit is completely broken16:35
thrice`and, I don't think it actually installs them, but won't build without :>16:35
jaegerit doesn't even actually give an error, just stops16:35
thrice`hm, I built libsoup OK, but with --without-gnome16:36
thrice`which, you probably want :>16:36
jaegerwish I could figure out what the actual error is16:36
jaegerthere's no log that I can find (this is during the automake phase)16:36
thrice`and you're doing 2.26, or 2.28 ?16:37
jaeger2.2616:37
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jaegerall it will say is GTK_DOC_BUILD_HTML does not appear in AM_CONDITIONAL16:43
thrice`awesome, dvd scan results in 99 titles on the dvd, all at 1:30-ish O.o16:59
thrice`if DVD companies make it so challenging to back up discs, why the fuck should I resist downloading things again?17:00
jaegerheh17:01
thrice`ah, it's a disney thing, apparently.  of all companies O.o17:07
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nipuLoh that can't be good19:31
nipuLjust noticed the email header from my invoice from my isp19:31
nipuLreturn-path: root@xxxxxxxxxx19:31
nipuLam i to understand that they run their billing cycle as root?19:32
rehabdollheh19:45
rehabdollhttp://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/09/23/213023219:45
rehabdollmaybe its the same company owners19:45
thrice`Building '/usr/ports/packages/xorg-xf86-video-intel#2.8.99.902-1.pkg.tar.gz' succeeded.   :D20:31
nipuLso does it fix xkcd #619?20:53
thrice`dunno, haven't restarted X yet.  I assume so...I mean, see how big of a number it is?20:54
jaegerIt still won't run flash videos smoothly fullscreen21:09
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Teminian_RobinHmm.23:09
Teminian_RobinWhere should I set LANG variable in CRUX?23:09
Teminian_RobinOr..... LOCALE23:16
Teminian_RobinAll the characters in arora are shown as square boxes.23:17
joacimAll I did was export the charset in /etc/profile23:32
joacimSounds to me like you are missing some fonts23:32
Teminian_RobinWell so I installed all the fonts at ports but it didn't work.23:43
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joacimthen I am out of ideas :/23:44
Teminian_RobinMaybe that's because arora refers to some fonts that don't belong to ports.23:44
Teminian_Robinexport.....23:45
Teminian_RobinLet me double check.23:45
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