IRC Logs for #crux Thursday, 2009-10-22

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pitillogood morning01:28
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cruxbot[opt.git/2.6]: mdadm: update to 3.0.305:43
cruxbot[opt.git/2.6]: mysql: update to 5.1.4005:43
cruxbot[opt.git/2.6]: nvidia: update to 190.4205:43
cruxbot[core.git/2.6]: module-init-tools: update to 3.11.105:43
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namenloshi @ all07:17
namenlosjust a question: has anyone else a xserver which segfaults since the last upgrade?07:17
budzigniewwell, it did segfault few time when I send SIGKILL to it (or was it SIGTERM?) on everyday work it's just fine07:18
namenloshm, it crashes on startup07:19
namenlosidea: i could recompile dwm an d dmenu...07:19
namenlosi will talk back in the evening.07:22
budzigniewmy dwm was working just fine07:24
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namenlosi doubt, that it would be dwm. i just want to make sure.07:29
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Rotwanghi sepen_09:07
thrice`hey sepen_ :)09:14
sepen_hey lokos!09:14
* Rotwang has a briliant idea ;D09:16
Rotwanghow to find new job09:16
Rotwangim going to write a spambot09:16
sepen_bah' I'm developing antispam appliances to kill them ;D09:16
Rotwangwhich is going to send my cv and cover letter to every fscking company in my city09:16
treachhah, I thought it was to start a glass firm, and then spend the dark hours making sure the jobs keep coming. :>09:17
sepen_someone knows the equivalence between libtool and ld? just I want to convert this line "$(LIBTOOL) --mode=link $(CC)" to another one based on the 'ld' command and not libtool09:20
sepen_any idea?09:21
* Rotwang s libtool knowlege is minimal09:22
Rotwangand bounds to 009:23
rehabdollmost of my knowledge is less or equal to 009:24
rehabdollfeels good and empty in my head09:25
sepen_hmm I think you can't compile libjpeg without libtool09:25
sepen_I fixed some parts for compilation without libtool but I fail in this 'ld' stuff :|09:26
namenloswhy does libjpeg fail?09:26
namenloson my machine it compiled just fine09:26
namenlosah, overread the "without libtool" ...09:27
cruxbot[contrib.git/2.6]: wop: fix build09:29
cruxbot[contrib.git/2.6]: rss-glx: 0.8.1 -> 0.9.009:29
cruxbot[contrib.git/2.6]: physfs: fix compile and not bumping revision as it wont need to be recompiled if it compiles, fixes bug #50609:29
cruxbot[contrib.git/2.6]: wesnoth: 1.4.7 -> 1.6.509:29
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sepen_hey namenlos09:52
namenlossepen_: hi09:52
sepen_are you maintaining this page?
namenlosah, i remember09:53
namenlosi was once writing it, but since then i didn't change anything09:53
namenlosis something wrong?09:53
sepen_I updated the old stuff. now its called mpup (some guy from this channel give me this name)
sepen_also I added a port09:55
namenlosi will have a look09:56
sepen_please if you find something stupid in spanglish feel free to correct me ;D09:56
namenlosabout the wiki page: atm i don't maintain it (still struggling with my new crux installation ;) )09:56
namenlosdo you want to delete the mult page?09:59
sepen_well I could update the page10:01
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namenlosfeel free ;)10:01
namenlosi got to go home and get my xserver right ... bye10:02
sepen_hehe bye10:03
sepen_and goodluck10:03
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namenloscan anyone help me with this:
namenlosthis is since the last xorg update. the (EE) with the fb device was there since the beginning.10:47
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EmoSpiceAlright - I'm currently using ecarux's Crux64 build, but that's stuck at 2.5. Would it make sense to simply comment the ecarux portdb's out and update from core/opt?11:50
EmoSpiceFrom what I understand, that would simply compile using my CFLAGS, meaning they'd be decently optimized for X86_6411:51
thrice`cool, glad the fucking Euro keeps INCREASING11:51
thrice`you damn Europeans, and your economy11:52
treachEmoSpice: it's not quite that simple11:52
rehabdollEmoSpice: enjoy11:52
treachrehabdoll: have you started supporting that now? ;)11:53
rehabdollsupport? fuck no :D11:53
Rotwangthrice`: haha11:53
rehabdollbut it works (tm) albeit there are some cosmetic issues11:53
Rotwangeconomical crisis is for pussies11:53
treachEmoSpice: rehabdoll's iso is the best bet if you want a 64bit crux.11:53
thrice`$1.50 today for a Euro :(11:54
RotwangEU doe s not care about this shit11:54
thrice`but come on, thrice` is poor11:54
treachand don't upgrade through the ports unless you really know what you're doing.11:54
treachthrice` can't pay the price'11:54
rehabdollEmoSpice: there are core-x86_64 and opt-x86_64 ports hosted by crux11:54
rehabdollalthough they only contain the ports that need special x86_64 love11:55
EmoSpicerehabdoll: I was reading through that on the mailinglist, though I wasn't sure if that had been continued till now11:55
EmoSpiceit seemed as if the general consensus was that it was a bit more work that it was worth11:56
EmoSpicebut I musta been mistaken11:56
thrice`nah, it's really simple :)11:56
rehabdollwell the issues are basically how to maintain it i think11:56
EmoSpicethrice`: Are you the same thrice from #archlinux? (out of curiousity)11:57
rehabdollsupporting full ports for x86_64 would be the cleanest way, but would require lots of redundant work11:57
EmoSpicerehabdoll: makes sense11:57
thrice`don't think so, I've never used arch11:57
EmoSpicethrice`: Ahh11:57
EmoSpiceComing from Arch, crux is really interesting11:58
thrice`it's a little cleaner, and from what people have mentioned, "more stable" :)11:58
budzigniewand it has sane devs11:58
* Rotwang came from arch too11:58
* budzigniew also11:58
EmoSpiceI like the 'download straignt from the author' part, though I do rather like the rolling release that Arch uses11:59
thrice`well, minus the toolchain, crux is continuous updates too12:00
EmoSpicethe toolchain is where I got caught up the first time I installed. :/12:00
budzigniewwhat do you mean as the "toolchain"?12:01
jseThe toolchain is usually left alone in a release. A new gcc is not unheard of but there will not be a glibc update, for instance.12:02
budzigniewI see12:02
budzigniewbut they are still in ports, so it shouldn't be a problem to compile them yourself, should it?12:03
jseNo one's stopping the user from messing with the toolchain. :D12:03
EmoSpicemy problem was that I got caught up in some circular deps (or some such thing...) for gcc12:03
treachhowever, there will be lots of laughter when it such playing around results in broken systems. :P12:03
EmoSpicetreach: such was the case here :D12:04
jseRight on point.12:04
thrice`budzigniew, no, but its best for the toolchain to be bootstrapped in its own environment (like building an iso does)12:05
thrice`I don't think glibc is as fragile as it used to be, though12:05
jseHopefully it's limited to its nutty maintainer :D12:09
jseIn typical use, it's probably advisable to not tinker with the toolchain, especially if you don't know what you're doing.12:09
treachmmh, "glibc, now with xml inside"12:17
treachjust that is enough to make me consider *bsd or even solaris..12:17
EmoSpiceonly reason I'm not testing out FreeBSD now is that it needs a primary partition12:18
thrice`gentoo used to advise you rebuild your entire system, I think, on glibc/gcc updates :D12:20
EmoSpiceused to advise you to do so or not to do so?12:21
thrice`to do so12:21
EmoSpiceThat was what i was attempting to do. Install 2.5, update kernel, update gcc / glibc etc, recompile installed packages - but I messed up somewhere in there :/12:22
jseIt's somewhat more complicated than that. It might have been a year ago when the mailing list detailed some instructions on how its done.12:24
treachthere is a guide for that some place in the wiki, but that's probably moot at this point.. :>12:24
jseI don't recall exact details but the toolchain actually needed at least two rebuilds before you could move on to recompiling other ports.12:24
EmoSpiceyeah probably. with this iso, I'll be fine I think12:25
EmoSpiceI'll probably go look through the wiki in a bit, just to see where I went wrong :/12:25
EmoSpiceIf I type repeated characters, I apoligize. The new kitten is clambering all over my desk and person12:26
cruxbot[opt.git/2.6]: iotop: removed.12:27
EmoSpicedoes cruxbot provide any services other than package update notifications?12:28
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cruxbot[contrib.git/2.6]: iotop: adopted from opt12:29
tilmanclb is another bot that spies on us (logging)12:29
tilmanits a generic infobot thingy12:29
tilmanbut cruxbot only monitors the git trees12:29
tilmanit also dies occasionally when people push *lots* of updates at once :D12:29
EmoSpicedidn't know if it was anything like phrik (on #archlinux), which is much more full featured, suppose12:29
jseMuch of what happens revolves around simplicity and being in a working state. :p12:31
EmoSpiceunderstandable - phrik is more of a side project for one of the devs.12:32
EmoSpicehe (Phrakture) adds features whenever he geets the urge, from what I understand.12:33
tilmancruxbot is just a quick hack12:34
* rehabdoll feels dirty12:34
thrice`seems to work well, though :>12:34
rehabdollam about to install win7 \o/12:34
tilmanTMI you filthy filth person12:34
budzigniewwhat for?12:34
thrice` :(12:34
thrice`VM at least?12:34
rehabdollno, a different disk12:34
EmoSpicerehabdoll: used it for a while (for Adobe's design suite), and it's not that bad12:34
treachjust another dosis of "more of the same"12:35
thrice`didn't they take c# out of the core?12:36
tilmanthrice`: what what?12:36
thrice`knowing about 0% of programming, I thought vista was slower from c# crap12:36
thrice`and that a feature of win7 was redoing it12:36
tilmandon't think so12:36
thrice`mm, ok.12:37
treachthrice`: I think you're confusing c# and the graphics drivers. :p12:37
tilmanvista shipped with the .net framework, but that's just like ubuntu shipping with mono12:37
tilmanit doesn't mean your apps actually use it ;)12:37
treach"empty" os > 10GB = fail.12:38
EmoSpiceempty os > 1 GB == pretty fail12:38
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treachthat too.12:38
tilmandebian with lots of crap > 5 GB = also fail (imho)12:39
tilmandebian default-installation i mean12:39
thrice`i've never actually used plain ol' debian12:39
EmoSpicenor have i12:39
thrice`before CRUX, I used slackware, which was also about 5gb12:40
tilmanyou gotta see it to believe it's weirdness12:40
EmoSpiceused Ubuntu and Mepis, but never vanilla devian12:40
thrice`I read that to become a debian developer, you have to travel to another debian developer, and have him sign off or something12:40
budzigniewdebian's -dev packages is like a monstrous fail to me12:40
EmoSpicerecently I've stuck to Arch, Crux and SourceMage.12:41
Rotwangi always wondered why debian devs apply gadzillion patches in their packages12:41
EmoSpiceRotwang: +112:41
budzigniewthey think it's good probably12:42
budzigniewthe most evil things in the world come from people thinking something's good12:42
EmoSpiceprobably much the same reason that Gentoo does12:42
tilmanseparate -dev packages has advantages12:42
EmoSpice'Sensible Defaults'12:42
tilmanif you never build software yourself, why waste diskspace with headers and little other crap?12:42
treachhah, that "sensible defaults" stuff is one of the biggest red herrings in the industry.12:43
thrice`yep.  maybe you don't WANT people to have such capabilities?12:43
treachjust like the rumoured "normal user"12:43
EmoSpicetreach - agreed.12:43
EmoSpiceI understand setting things up a certain way, if you KNOW that's how most people will use it, but to remove functionality because you want 'sensible defaults' is absurd12:44
EmoSpiceNotify-OSD is a good example of that12:44
treachYou've gotta love gnome. "Users easily get confused by settings, so lets hide them in a 'proto-registry' where they can really screw things up if they mess around".12:45
tilmantreach: apparently there's a gconf replacement in the works... called dconf iirc12:46
thrice`yes, in gnome 2.28 eg, they turned off icons by default12:48
thrice`and the only way to turn them back on is hacking in gconf :D12:48
treachicons was apparently deemed confusing.12:48
budzigniewyay, no icons spoiling wallpaper! \o/12:48
tilmannot those icons12:48
tilmanthey are removing icons from menus (and toolbars?)12:49
thrice`no, the ones in the gnome menus,a nd on the buttons12:49
EmoSpicethrice`: couldn't even set it in .gtkrc to get them back?12:49
treachthey can't get rid of the ones on the desktop, if they do that, there will be thousands of gnome users who won't be able to get to their cds.. :D12:50
EmoSpicedumb question - gnome-settings-daemon.12:50
thrice`I don't think so, it's a nautilus thing12:50
Rotwang(it's good to use lxde [;)12:50
thrice`I didn't play too much, was just setting up ubuntu for a buddy12:50
thrice`   ah, it's a feature :D12:51
treachgnome is fantastic. remove old cruft that is or should not have been used for years -> Major version release. :>12:53
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treachGnome 3.0 -> Us too!12:57
thrice`I still prefer gnome to kde4, I must admit12:59
treachhorses for courses.12:59
thrice`on intel, kwin is easily the slowest WM i've used12:59
treachwell, that's not kwins fault is it?13:00
treachslow code is slow code, no matter what the hardware.13:00
budzigniewit IS slow13:00
budzigniewI remember times when I was using fluxbox13:00
thrice`treach, well, gnome feels much snappier on the same hardware13:00
budzigniewI put on kde4 to see how it looks like, just plain kde4, not much around13:00
Rotwangi used kwin13:00
treachthrice`: that's irrelevant.13:01
budzigniewrun nexuiz on that, and I had to reduce details, for it was so slaw13:01
Rotwangand must say kwin is the best app in kde13:01
treachthrice`: that's like saying that a Caterpillar(tm) is faster than a Ferrari, because it can traverse a field faster.13:01
thrice`if my only goal is the traverse the field, why do I care?13:02
thrice`if i'm never going to hit the autobahn, I couldn't care less :D13:02
treachwell, you would get laughed out of town if you tried to spread your assertion that the caterpillar was faster as a general truth.13:03
treach(unless you live in Iowa, I guess. :) )13:03
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rehabdollnow why did i expect this to work? silly me, ive been away from microsoft too long13:23
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thrice`hopefully, you at least didn't waste money on it :D13:24
rehabdollnah, student license13:24
rehabdollcost me a total of 1 dvdr13:24
joacimask for a refund13:24
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budzigniewmail microsoft13:34
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Rotwangjohn safrans is for lulz16:20
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Rotwangpalestinian donating sperm in jewish sperm bank ;DD16:21
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rehabdolldont forget the palestinian spermbank :D16:24
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Rotwangheh ;d that was good16:30
Rotwangyes we can!16:30
jkramerPoor Apple users16:36
treachnono, that's one of those amazing _features_ that makes it a must have.16:38
namenlosany suggestions, i could do, when my xserver segfaults?16:39
jkramerReplace VMWare with VirtualBox :)16:40
jkramerWorked great for me16:40
treach"reflect, repent and reboot"?16:41
jkramer(at least if vmware makes it crash, otherwise the switch might be useless)16:41
namenlosare we talking about the same thing?16:42
jkramerMaybe not16:45
jkramerMy X crashed with a seg fault whenever vmware got focus, switching to virtualbox fixed it16:45
namenlosi don't have vmware, virtualbox or any of this installed16:46
namenlosi boot my pc, log in and type startx16:46
namenlosthen x crashes16:46
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mernilHello fellow linux users!16:52
mernili use suse right now, but i'm a fan of crux!16:52
treachrunning low on places where you're not banned?16:53
mernilreason im here, is that major distros dont appreciate my kind of humour. treach ^^ that's it!16:54
mernilI dont think im to bad tho!16:55
treachpoor persecuted you. maybe you should just learn to behave.16:55
mernili know how to behave16:56
thrice`slackware too, actually :)16:56
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mernilthrice`: i know, can you ask them to unban me?16:57
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thrice`namenlos_, no clue here :(  that's very strange.16:57
namenlos_thrice`: damn, i am running out of ideas16:58
thrice`namenlos_, you have FB ?16:58
namenlos_recompiled the whole xorg-* ports16:58
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thrice`can you "modprobe vesafb"  ?16:58
thrice`mm, surely vesafb isn't a requirement of xorg16:59
namenlos_i don't think so, i am still using the crux default kernel (with minor changes)16:59
namenlos_the fb error was there before the update, too16:59
thrice`you could try a the very ugly hack to mknod  it16:59
thrice`ooh, ok16:59
thrice`probably nothing more useful in /var/log/Xorg.0.log ?17:00
namenlos_just a moment moment17:01
jkramerHmm, the chance is probably very small, but is anyone here using a combination aus VirtualBox, Windows XP and a BlackBerry? :)17:03
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namenlos_looks like the nv driver?17:04
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thrice`namenlos_, do you use a xorg.conf ?17:10
namenlos_thrice`: no17:13
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jkramerDamn, I don't like virtualbox anymore17:16
namenlos_ok, i will talk back to you tomorrow.17:19
namenlos_i got to go to bed, now17:19
namenlos_good night17:19
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jkramerAre scanned and emailed documents as valid (legally) as faxed documents?17:23
treachI guess you'll need a lawyer to answer that question, since it might vary with the jurisdiction.17:25
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treachhere, I think the general idea is "no", but usually it works anyway, if you explain that you don't have a fax.17:25
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jkramerThat's what I did, and it "worked", I just wondered if it's really valid from a legal point of view17:28
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treachas I said, if you want to find out, you'll probably have to find a lawyer.17:29
jkramerI think I'll do sometime :)17:29
treachdon't forget the garlic. :>17:30
jkramerNah, I won't really ask a lawyer, but I got a judge in the family :)17:31
jkramerMaybe he'll know17:31
treachI think that's a better bet than irc. :)17:31
jkramerYup, but IRC has open 24/7 :)17:32
jkramerIt's really annoying when people you communicate with a lot (like family) depend on weird things like phone and SMS17:33
jkramerAnd check their email once a week or so17:33
treachhm, I don't think sms is that great for "communicating".17:33
jkramerThat's what I mean :)17:34
treachindeed, I was just pondering the fact that someone would use it for that purpose.17:34
jkramerAnd phone calls are too volatile for me17:34
jkramerI need something that I can search17:34
treachvolatile? They explode?17:34
jkramerIn that I forget everything 5min after the call :)17:35
treachtape recorder? :p17:35
treacherr, I mean, use your mp3 player to record the conversation..17:35
jkramerStill not searchable :)17:35
jkramerUnless I find a good speech recognition tool17:36
jkramerNot bad :)17:36
jkramerA BlackBerry application that can do that on the fly on the call would be nice17:36
treachhah, I guess I know what people will say when you call...17:37
treach"Stop bugging me!"17:37
jkramerYay, now I can search my IRC logs when I forget what people told me on the phone \o/17:37
* treach logs nothing. :>17:38
jkramerActually, I don't either :(17:38
jkramerNow I forgot what I wanted to do before talking about lawyers17:38
treachif it's important, pen+paper still works.17:38
jkramerI right, I wanted to email that scan somewhere :)17:39
jkramerDamn, I always get confused with the keys from gmail and mutt17:40
treachkwallet ftw. :>17:40
jkramerNot those keys, the keyboard shortcuts17:41
treachgmail has shortcuts?17:41
treachI use imap with gmail..17:42
jkramerSure, a lot of them17:42
jkramerMostly very useful, but some things are annoying17:42
jkramerLike that 'm' doesn't compose a mail as in mutt but "mutes" the currently selected mail/conversation17:42
treachwhy not just connect to gmail via imap?17:43
treach(or pop, if you prefer)17:43
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jkramerI don't like the way gmails tags/folders are represented in IMAP17:43
treachfair enough17:44
jkramerI think I should stop complaining and just send that stupid mail17:44
jkramerMost of the time I'm using my BlackBerry for mails anyway, so for the few times I'm mailing on my notebook the gmail interface is ok17:47
jkramerDid anyone try parallels on linux?17:53
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