IRC Logs for #crux Sunday, 2009-11-01

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tadzikdamn, sorry04:37
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tadzikRotwang: ping06:42
Rotwangtadzik: pong06:42
tadzikRotwang: what is the estimated compilation time of texlive?06:45
tadzikis is something openoffice-alike, longer, shorter?06:46
Rotwangno texlive compiles relatively quick06:46
tadzikwow. So most of this stuff is binary, or something?06:47
Rotwangtadzik: yes, you dont compile fonts actually ;D06:47
tadzikah, I see :D06:47
* Rotwang is going to watch F106:49
tadzikwell, the 'source' is like 23 MBytes06:49
jkramerHow do ramdisks behave when memory gets low?06:50
jkramerIs the reserved memory used or is it hardwired to the ramdisk?06:50
Rotwangtadzik: yes, rest is fonts and packages06:50
tadzikhuh, big stuff06:50
treachjkramer: tempfs should spill over into swap when you run out of space afaik.06:56
treachtadzik: texlive takes a while, openoffice takes an eternity unless you use the binary package, which is what the port uses. :>06:58
thrice`I did it once on gentoo on this laptop, and it was around an hour and a half, I think06:59
thrice`(for ooo)06:59
treachwhat's that laptop? A "Ferrari"? :D07:01
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thrice`nah, C2D07:01
jkramertreach: The tmpfs isn't full, it's completely empty to be honest. I just wonder if when applications run low on memory, if the tmpfs-memory is used for them or if it is strictly reserved for the tmpfs07:01
jkramerWhat, nope? :)07:02
treachnot afair at least, it's been a while since I read about it.07:02
treachnope, the tempfs size allocated isn't "locked" to the tempfs.07:03
treachif you set, let's say size=512m, that just means that's the maximum size your tempfs can use07:04
treachif it needs less, it uses less.07:04
treachand once it needs less than it's currently using, it shrinks again07:04
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treachand iirc, if you need more space than is currently available, it should spill over into swap space, however, not exceeding the max size you're set, which is 50% of your ram by default.07:06
treachjkramer: clear enough? :>07:07
jkramerHmmm ... :)07:08
jkramerI'm not sure :)07:08
treachI can only recommend google then. :>07:09
jkramerSee, I have a tmpfs with 1G (of 2G RAM total), but it is completely empty07:09
treachthat's the default max setting I spoke about07:10
jkramerNow I'm running jdownloader, vmware, firefox and maybe some more bloat, and I wonder if the RAM of the tmpfs is used for those apps when the remaining 1G is full, or if it is swapped and the 1G of the tmpfs remains unused07:10
treachif you set, let's say size=512m, that just means that's the maximum size your tempfs can use07:10
jkramerAh, ok, so if the tmpfs has 1G max but 0M content, I have the full 2G for apps?07:11
tilmandoes anyone know a working tool for gpg-key recovery?07:12
tilmani forgot which of my key's characters are upper case and which aren't :(07:12
treachheh, if there were such a tool, wouldn't that be kind of problematic? :p07:13
* treach "forgets" tilmans keys, and recovers it. :D07:13
tilmansecurity by -lets-hope-noone-writes-a-brute-force-program-to-guess-our-keys?07:13
tilmantreach: it's not a problem, because usually you need to search a much larger space than i do07:14
treachbut if you remember the actual characters it shouldn't take long to bruteforce with a script.07:14
tilmanbut i don't know how to feed the guessed passphrase to gpg07:14
tilmani found some tools that use libgpgme for that task... but those don't work either07:15
tilmani still get the ask-passphrase-window oppping up o_O07:15
tilmanmaybe i should write my own ask-passphrase script07:15
treachusing -z doesn't help?07:16
treachI have no idea what "canonical text mode" means..07:17
tilman-z? what? where?07:17
treachgpg -z07:17
tilmanset compress level? :]07:17
treachgah, sorry looked sligty "snett" :p07:18
treach--textmode was what I was after07:18
jkramertilman: You can just pipe the PW into gpg, IIRC07:19
jkramer/usr/bin/gpg --passphrase-fd 0 --batch07:20
jkramerfor foo in ${(f)"$(<your-pw-list)"}; /usr/bin/gpg --passphrase-fd 0 --batch <<<"$foo" && print "$foo works"07:21
jkramerOr something like that07:21
jkramerNeeds more params of course07:22
tilmanthere's also --passphrase-file07:22
jkramerBut that's only for one pw07:23
tilmansame for --passphrase-fd07:23
jkramerYup, but with for foo in ${(f)"$(<your-pw-list)"}; you can iterate through the lines of a pw list file07:23
jkramerWHich is better than writing pw into a file, trying with passphrase-file, then writing the next one into that file and so on ;)07:24
tilmani guess on tmpfs the performance differenceisn't measurable07:25
jkramerOf course you could use --passphrase too :)07:30
tilmanyes. i think that's what i'll end up doing07:30
tilmanafter disconnecting this machine and wrapping it in tin foil07:31
jkramerDon't forget export HISTFILE=/dev/null ;)07:32
tilmani'm writing a ruby script to process the wordlist07:32
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jkramertilman: Are you done yet?07:49
jkramerIf not, you can try this one:
tilmanwriting the word list generator now07:50
jkramerNice programming practice :)07:50
jkramerThis generates the words:07:51
jkramerallCases [] = [""]07:51
jkramerallCases (x:xs) = let rest = allCases xs in (map ((:) (toLower x)) rest) ++ (map ((:) (toUpper x)) rest)07:51
tilmanallCases :: String -> [String] ?07:51
tilmanseems to work, nice07:52
jkramerI think i used too much parens, but it should work07:52
jkramerOk, np07:52
tilmani was referring to allCases only ;)07:52
tilmandidn't try the whole program yet07:53
jkramerIf you do, you obviously have to tweak the command function :)07:53
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jkramer--passphrase should be at the end07:53
jkramerDon't scroll down too far, you might find the code where your PW is mailed to me ;)07:54
tilmanmain = getArgs >>= mapM_ tryPW . allCases . head07:59
tilmanmentioning command there seems useless07:59
jkramerOh right08:00
jkramerI didn't really test it ;)08:00
tilmanmission accomplished08:07
jkramerCan you paste your final version of the code somewhere? Maybe it'll be useful sometime later :)08:10
tilmanwill do in a second08:14
tilmanjkramer: a version that runs N processes at a time would be nice08:14
jkramerYup, and with exchangable string permute function :)08:15
jkramerAnd maybe configurable "try-pw-with-$EXTERNAL_TOOL" function :)08:16
jkramerHrm, isn't there something in haskell core for parallel io?08:18
jkramerparmap doesn't work here, I think08:18
tilmandunno, haven't looked at that yet08:18
tilmanyou misspelled w00t ;)08:19
treacheiffel. :D08:20
treach(if you want parallellism :o) )08:20
jkramerCool, thanks08:22
tilmanyou should blog about it08:23
tilmanso i can find it next time using google08:23
jkramerHmm, maybe I'll do :)08:24
jkramerparMapIO f xs = forM xs (\x -> do var <- newEmptyMVar; forkIO (f x >>= putMVar var); takeMVar var)08:25
jkramerI like haskell for being so weird, tricky, simple and useful at the same time08:27
thrice`[opt.git/2.6]: new port: secret-tilman-hax08:38
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tilmanalmost got me ;)08:39
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tilmanthrice`: i really was recovering my own key08:47
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tilmangreat, haskell already messed up my ruby09:30
treachRuby Haskell 0-109:31
Rotwanghour and a half 0__o09:35
Rotwangthats not fast09:35
Rotwangthats uber fast09:35
Rotwangit took me few hours on my cd 216009:36
Rotwangtilman: im talking about OOo compilation09:36
Rotwangregarding thrice`s OOo build speed09:37
treachRotwang: maybe he has umphteen GB ram and built it all in a tempfs? :P09:37
Rotwangthats still fast09:37
thrice`I think it can be done in under an hour on a quad-core09:38
treacha lot of oo.o is java, right?09:38
treachmaybe it's because thrice` had a newer version of that?09:38
* Rotwang is going to drink vodka09:39
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tilmando you get decent d/l speeds for ?09:57
thrice`yep, about my max on my crappy dsl09:59
thrice`300 kb/s or so10:00
tilmani'm damn wireless speeds vary mucho10:00
tilmanerr, my*10:00
tilmani got stable 25 kb/s last week, now it's down too 5-8 kb/s10:01
jkramerNot perfect, but an interesting exercise :)10:03
jkramerActually I think the speed is pretty poor10:03
tilmanwhat's the bottleneck? fork/exec?10:08
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jkramerOf course calling gpg is a bit of an overhead10:09
jkramerBut I didn't really profile it10:09
tilmando you know how to build and install haskell libraries manually? ie without using cabal10:12
jkramerThere usually is a Setup.hs or similar10:14
jkramerTry runhaskell Setup.hs {configure,build,install}10:15
tilmani wrote haskell bindings for xmms2. they ship  with the xmms2 source code10:15
tilmani wonder how to install my hs stuff from within the xmms2 build system10:15
jkramerI'd just add a Setup.hs/cabal file and call it from the xmms makefile10:16
jkramerOr build them with ghc --make and copy the libs somewhere where ghc can find them10:18
tilmanthat sounds better10:19
tilmani was after something more specific though :D10:19
jkramerI really don't know where haskell puts looks for libs, sorry :)10:20
jkramerI always use cabal configure --user, which puts them somewhere in my home10:20
jkramerI think maybe the libs need to be registered somewhere to, for haskell to find them10:21
jkramerBut I'm not sure about that10:21
tilmani am10:21
tilmannipuL's haskell ports all come with register/unregister scripts10:21
tilmanit's ghc specific though10:21
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thrice`haskell, xmms2?  eek10:21
jkramerOr you could just use mpd and install the existing bindings from hackage :)10:23
tilmani could also drill a hole in my knee and fill it with lead10:24
jkramerYup, but that won't take you any further with your problem :)10:24
tilmanditto for your proposal10:25
thrice`I was looking forward to the end-all client.  did that get finished for SoC?10:27
jkramerI'd still prefer mpd over lead in my knee10:27
tilmanthrice`: no10:28
treachthrice`: the end all client, isn't that amarok? I heard rumors about them including a baseball arena in the next release. :>10:29
tilmani recently converted a coworker from amarok to xmms2 :D10:29
thrice`I guess a simple gtk client is really too much to ask for these days10:30
thrice`LXMusic doesn't look too bad10:31
tilmani thought there's at least 5 simple gtkclients :D10:31
thrice`well, I was speaking outside of xmms210:32
thrice`I'm not a huge server/client fan10:32
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treachwhat happened to audacious/bmpx or whatever they call themselves these days?10:33
thrice`maybe I'll give xmms2 another go.  I think the last I tried was 0.3-ish10:34
thrice`I thought I had a problem with it, though.  I wanted to load all of my music into the play list, and have it sorted by artist10:34
tilmaniirc you wanted to have random-play10:35
thrice`ah, right; load all music, sort it, and have it play randomly10:36
tilmanwe still don't have random-play10:36
tilmanit's not on any feature wishlist afaik10:39
tilmanthrice`: did you try party shuffle mode btw?10:39
thrice`I can't recall, actually10:40
thrice`I think i'm maybe mis-understanding the goal of xmms210:46
tadzikRotwang: have You encountered anything like this?10:46
tilmanthrice`: o_O :D10:46
thrice`hey, having xmms in the name is kind of decieving :D10:47
tilmani don't think you're misunderstanding anything10:48
thrice`mm, ok :)10:52
thrice`(seriously, waf??)11:05
tilman(18:07) <  SkitIDet> tilman: Highest karma: "bhalu" (74), "theefer" (67), and  "tilman" (59).  Lowest karma: "waf" (-33), "myspace"  (-18), and "--- Starting new xmms2d -" (-9).  You (tilman)  are ranked 3 out of 1236.11:07
tilmanthrice`: yes. we justlove waf.11:07
tilman"it's vastly superior to any other build system" according to the author11:08
Zabawhat is?11:08
Zabapersonally I think that 'build system' is a vastly dreadful concept11:10
Zabaa makefile + portable code + package manager checking dependencies works out pretty well..11:11
thrice`oh!  well, who am I to argue ;)11:12
Zabawell, if the program is complicated, it should be simplified and split up.  If it can't be, something like linux/busybox/etc. make *config targets could be used...11:12
tilmanchecking for external deps manually is a pain in the ass11:13
Zabaa README file telling package maintainers, and those rare people installing things by hand, what's required11:13
* tilman rolls his eyes11:14
treachZaba: I feel you migth be qualified to join the brotherhood of suckless. :D11:16
Zabatreach, they sometimes take things too far and make them rather unusable11:16
Zababut otherwise, I'm a dwm user11:16
treachdwm is probably the only thing they've ever come up with that I felt comfortable with.11:17
treachstill, having to recompile the wm to change some random setting is... nutty.11:17
* Zaba doesn't remember when he last did that11:18
Zabathere aren't a lot of settings, after all11:18
treachno, but anyway.11:19
treachbtw, having few options is not an argument in favor of not having a config file..11:19
thrice`waf trying to run /sbin/ldconfig!  how rude11:20
Zabawell, dwm was designed to be simple (i.e., not like wmii) from the very beginning, after all11:21
treachcome on. simple is one thing, primitive another.11:21
Zabasimple means no dead code lying around11:22
tadziksimple is subjective11:22
Zabacode for reading a config file, being used just on startup, is dead code ;p11:22
tadzik…was that the right word?11:22
tadzikone man's simple is another man's primitive, that's what I meant11:22
Zabaah well, you can make a shell alias dwmconfedit that'll $EDITOR the config and recompile it11:23
treacha simple file for setting what terminal you're using or if you want the bar or not is hardly bloat.11:23
Zabanot that it takes very long :>11:23
thrice`ok, waf is a piece of shit11:24
Zabait's hard to make something like that so it's not a piece of shit11:24
Zabawhat we have today actually suggests "impossible"11:25
tilmanthrice`: i think there's --dont-run-ldconfig or something11:26
thrice`I'm trying to build it on my slackware server, which needs lib64, which apparently waf is struggling with11:29
thrice`--with-libdir=LIBDIR   is cryptic, implying that would work ;)11:30
thrice`mm, and #waf blames xmms2 guys, not their buildsystem11:43
cruxbot[opt.git/2.6]: wireshark: updated to
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thrice`sorry tilman12:47
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tilmanthrice`: for what?12:49
thrice`I was hoping it'd be a simple mistake in my buildscript, not a half our of fixing waf :D12:49
tilmanlet's hope that patch has some use for somebody if you decide xmms2 still sucks :>12:53
treachhah, that's a fatal one. "This won't take long", yeah, right. :D12:53
thrice`strange that noone else hit it, as /usr/lib64 is quite popular I thought12:53
tilmani love how the #waf idiots blamed us12:54
tilman"it's your fault for using a x month old release"12:54
tilmanupdate every week or you're SOL?12:54
thrice`I guess so :D12:55
cruxbot[contrib.git/2.6]: x86info: 1.24 -> 1.2513:03
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.6]: xorg-xf86-input-joystick: updated to
tadzikyay, got tex working13:22
tadzik(by reading arch's texlive.install, forgive)13:23
tadzikbut working13:26
tadzikthere even is some post-install script, too bad I don't use'em13:28
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tilmanque pasa?13:44
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thrice`tilman, is he an xmms2 dev?  he was the "not our problem" commenter :)13:49
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tilmanhe's the waf author13:50
thrice`aha, ok :)13:51
tilmanwho the hell goes on vacation for 2 months13:51
thrice`we call it unemployment in the states13:52
treachhere it's "prison" :p13:54
tilmansvenska gardinera?13:54
treach"gardinerna". never heard that expression but I guess yeah.13:55
tilmanlucky guess :D13:56
tilmanthat's why i like your crazy funny language ;)13:56
cruxbot[opt.git/2.6]: eject: fix URL and source13:56
treachtwo months is was you get for like beating someone up, or drunk driving, usually refered to as "being on vacation" :>13:57
treachseen the swedish tiger? :P13:57
tilmani'll ask the guy whether he's been convicted for assault13:57
treachthat's a classic, not related though in other terms than being a play on words.13:58
treachessentially our version of "feind hört mit", "en svensk tiger"
treachtiger means "keeps silent" too.13:59
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teK_swedish curtains it says in Germany because they made/make  hard steel or iron14:00
treachI always thought that tiger looked like he had escaped from prison.14:00
treachhaha, ok14:00
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thrice`mm, xmms2 lives!14:09
treachlife is live!14:10
tilmannana nanana?14:11
treachlol :D14:11
tadzikpa ba bap bap bap live14:11
thrice`except it started with "mind in a box", nad had me confused :D14:11
tilmani bet mpd doesn't get samples of internally known electronic acts :D14:11
tilmaninternationally* :)14:12
tilmanthey are austrian, but still :D14:12
treachthat means mpd only plays waltz-music? :p14:13
thrice`great marketing :D14:13
rehabdollhow does the newest transmission client work for you guys? seems i cant connect to perfectly good trackers with it14:18
thrice`I'm using 1.76 ok14:19
tadzikhmm, any neat way to generate md5sums/footprints after package building?14:32
thrice`pkgmk -u{m,f}14:32
tadzikkind thanks14:32
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tilmani need to color my prompt14:43
* treach gets a flashback to when all the cool kids were trying to outdo eachother with how much they coudl abuse the DOS-prompt. :P14:46
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jsemy prompt > your prompt :p14:50
tilmantreach: you're just giving up like this!? :D14:51
treachgiving up?14:51
tilmanyou just acknowledged that jse's prompt > your prompt ;p14:52
tilmanteK_: the fdp guy just said 'schwarz-geld' on tv :D14:52
treachaha. well, I'm not into that kind of stuff anymore anyway.14:52
treachlet's just say I've grown out of it. ;)14:52
tilmantreach: just kidding anyway14:52
thrice`I also use the zsh defaults :(  very boring14:53
tilman%n@%m [%(5c,../%2~,%~)] >14:53
tilmanthat just trims the shown directory a bit14:53
treachrompt=%m:"$PromptColor%~%(!|$Yellow|$Grey)%#$Normal "14:54
treach+p at the beginning, obviously. :P14:54
tadzikhah, mine is 2-lined14:54
treachI take no credit, I think I nicked it from han's rather massive .zshrc14:55
rehabdollhmm, transmission 1.71 is the latest working version for me14:58
treachtadzik: btw, mine is 5 lines, if I count the ones where the "PromptColor,Normal,Yellow and Grey" stuff is defined. :>15:02
jseWhen getting greedy with your configuration lines is a virtue. :p15:03
joacimautoload -U colors15:05
joacimwhy define your own =)15:05
treachbecause the predefined quite often aren't that nice?15:05
treachespecially that blue one, it's almost impossible to see on black. :/15:06
joacimPROMPT="(%{${fg[green]}%}%n@%m%{${fg[default]}%}) %# "15:06
joacimI get around it by not using blue15:07
tadziktreach: ;)15:07
tilman$fg[green] should work after loading colors?15:08
joacimworks for me15:08
tilmandoesn't work. zsh sucks.15:09
tadzikwhy not just writing it by hand? zsh is reading this, not you15:10
joacimdid you run "colors" after autoloading it?15:10
tadzik%{\e[1;33m%}└─[%{\e[1;35m%}%#%{\e[1;33m%}]─>%{\e[0m%} '15:10
tadzikI mean, who cares about readability when talking about PS1 ;)15:10
thrice`that's hideous :D15:11
tadzikzsh can read this quite well15:11
treachI think he was refering to the result. :D15:11
tilmanjoacim: no. that fixes it15:11
tadzikwell, I like it ;)15:12
thrice`mm, xmms2 <tab>   <315:18
tilmantilman@centaur [~] > pkginfo -l zsh|grep xmms215:19
thrice`aren't you both a) an xmms2 dev, and b) the zsh maintainer?  :D15:21
tilmancoincidence :p15:21
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thrice`is "kill" the best way to stop xmms2 when i'm done?15:26
tilmanxmms2 quit15:26
thrice`oops, I see quit15:27
thrice`sorry :)15:27
tilmanjust killing it is okay, too, though15:31
Rotwangtadzik did not run post install script15:50
Rotwangthat is pissing me off15:50
thrice`too much vodka Rotwang :)15:51
Rotwangnooo i will not enable post install scripts in prt-get conf15:51
Rotwangand then they come to irc saying, this does not work!15:51
Rotwangthrice`: 0.9 litree for 4 people :\15:52
Rotwang+ 2 beers each15:52
thrice`fun :)  I drank some good stuff in germany last week15:53
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Rotwangi drunk some good and some not so good vodka today16:00
Rotwanggood vodka doesnt throw you off when you drink it16:01
Rotwangin "small" amounts16:01
* Rotwang found a beer in his pocket16:06
treachok, now that makes you officially a drunk. Hth does one just "find" a beer in your pocket?16:15
thrice`ha ha16:15
Rotwangyears of practice :c16:15
treach"Whoupsie, lookie a beer in my pocket. It probably only weighs half a kg, but I had no idea it was there, huzza!"16:17
Rotwangit happens ;D16:17
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treachapparently. :>16:18
* Rotwang is drinking piast16:19
Rotwangwhats funny16:19
Rotwangin polish beer commercials16:19
Rotwangthey always say how muuch polish beer is known around the world16:20
Rotwangwhich is bullshit16:21
treachyep, commercials usually is.16:21
treachs/is/are, wtf16:22
joacimyou have beer commercials in poland? :-O16:23
treachworse, apparently they have beer too.16:23
treachor at least something they refer to as a beer. :>16:24
Rotwangyes we have got commercials16:24
Rotwangwe've got automobiles as well16:24
Rotwangso we can move our beer from one place to another16:24
joacimafter you drank it?16:25
treachbe nice.16:25
Rotwangjoacim: drunk driving is problem around here16:27
Rotwangso better watch out ;>16:27
joacimI dont think TV stations are allowed to run commercials for beer and tobacco16:30
joacimhere in norway16:30
treacharen't they doing like here, transmitting from the UK, so they can do it anyway?16:30
joacimnope, never seen a single commercial for beer or tobacco.16:31
joacimexcept for those I've seen on youtube16:31
Rotwangthey cant run tobacco commercials here, and vodka commercials16:33
Rotwangbeer is allowed16:33
nipuLin australia there's a plan to ban display of tobacco products entirely16:42
nipuLput them under the counter and non-branded packaging16:42
treachhah, that will make some fine movies. like that photo of trotsky. :D16:42
joacimdont you try to ban everything in australia?16:43
jse*censored* :D16:43
nipuLnope, just tobacco and refugees16:44
Rotwangpromoting tobacco is like promoting salt or flour16:47
Rotwangits the same16:47
treachand Vodka is just medication, right?16:48
nipuLi say just ban advertising in general16:48
treach*sigh* if only..16:49
nipuLone out all out16:49
nipuLi suppose not watching tv + adblock is effective16:49
thrice`i've canceled my cable this year.  I can't stand it any longer16:50
treachindeed, I usually have no clue when people discuss products x or y. :D16:50
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nipuLnow to convince the other 99.9% of the population16:50
nipuLseen this funny ad for a video store16:51
nipuL"so i heard pay tv is repetative"16:52
nipuL"pay tv is repetative?"16:52
nipuL"yeah, pay tv is repetative"16:52
nipuLand so on16:52
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thrice`tilman, omfg:
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tilmanthrice`: hehe, looks familiar23:56

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