IRC Logs for #crux Friday, 2009-12-04

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pitillogood morning01:04
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fakerootHello.01:14
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tadzikIsn't there something to be done about those duplicates?05:52
tadzikWhen one wants some new version of a port and there are 3 or 4 port providers one does not even know which one to poke05:52
pitillotadzik: is any of them in contrib? I think poking contrib maintainers or directly the maintainer of the port, talking about the bump or telling him to put it and maintain it in contrib05:59
tadzikno, the contrib won't be a problem06:00
pitilloor may be if the maintainer doesn't want to put it in contrib, make a request to contrib maintainers to add it06:00
tadzikI mean the situation in which there are various repos, none of which even semi-official, providing some port06:00
tadziklook at libtorrent e.g.06:01
tadzik7 version, none in contrib, no one to poke even06:01
tadziklet's say 6 version. Then there goes a guy, let's call him tadzik06:01
tadziktadzik wants new libtorrent, which no one provides. So he creates his Pkgfile for libtorrent, for he does not even know which one of libtorrent providers is even active, and who should he poke06:02
tadzikdamn, there are even thing available in opt which have several other providers06:03
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pitillotadzik: then the way to go, you can pick it up and maintain yourself06:14
pitillotadzik: if you trust ina  maintainer of a personal repo, talk to him to see if he can bump it up06:15
pitillotadzik: ask a contrib maintainer to add it to contrib and mainain it up to date06:15
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pitillotadzik: make a request to join contrib and you can add it to contrib and maintin it there06:15
tadzikpitillo: I'm to fresh to join contrib I guess06:37
tadzikthere was written somewhere that one needs to have his repo for a year or something06:37
tadzikbut I'd be glad to give something from myself if I can06:37
rehabdollthere are two projects called "libtorrent"06:47
rehabdollthe one i provide is the rtorrent-one06:47
rehabdollthats the latest unstable version btw06:48
fakerootWell, some of my ports are duplicated, but there are some other ./configure options or more CRUX-way paths (f.e. fonts).06:48
fakeroot(but my repo isn't in portdb)06:48
tadzikrehabdoll: yeah, your looks good06:48
rehabdolli find it easier to adopt someones port and maintain it myself, rather than to keep updating from someone elses repo06:50
tadzikyeah, that's the sad thing06:50
rehabdollits not that bad06:51
rehabdollstill prefer crux ports to any other package-solution ive ever tested :)06:51
fakerootrehabdoll: But some things should be changed imo.06:52
rehabdollwell sure, everything can always be improved06:53
fakerootF.e. contrib/x11-fonts-dejavu -> xorg/xorg-font-dejavu with path changed from /usr/share/fonts/dejavu to /usr/lib/X11/fonts/dejavu06:53
thrice`as tilman mentioned, changing port names means that users with x11-fonts-dejavu in their package database will be sad :)06:54
fakerootAnd another thing: if bash-completion puts everything into /etc/bash_completion.d, why not to change paths of extensions? Why to keep files in /usr/lib, why everything else is in /etc?06:55
fakerootthrice`: But they can make it fixed in easy way :)06:55
tadzikalright, cleaned up my repo from your ones rehabdoll06:55
tadzikone step forward to something better :)06:55
tadzikrehabdoll: are you sure rfkill's md5sum is alright?06:56
fakerootI have a propose. If there is bash-completion port, why not to change extensions into bash-completion-extension_name ports with corrected paths? F.e. bash-completion-crux, bash-completion-git and so on...06:57
fakeroothttp://157.158.41.107/06:57
rehabdollit was when i added it, they might have changed something06:57
tadzikI keep getting f4d693c2a3e5f0503a3cde3d84be8919, like 4th time in a row06:57
fakerootpkgmk -um inside port dir?06:58
tadzikbut how do I know if I really have a good package then? :)06:58
rehabdollblind faith06:58
tadziko, by the way rehabdoll06:58
fakerootMaybe, but it works.06:59
tadzikI now knew why I had my rfkill port, you left empty /usr/share in your06:59
fakeroottadzik: You might /j #crux.pl by the way, prosze Pana :)06:59
rehabdollthe sha1sum seems to be correct, im updating my md5sum06:59
tadzikfakeroot: I probably won't, too many #archlinux.pl fags there imho06:59
rehabdolli might have been drunk when i added it07:00
tadzikno offence of course :)07:00
fakeroottadzik: Many of them have had CRUX in their lives :)07:00
rehabdollfixed it07:00
thrice`lol07:00
fakerootrehabdoll: :D07:01
rehabdollgood someone is paying attention, i know im not :)07:01
tadzik:)07:01
tadzikhmm, I'm seriously considering moving my green tea to a bottleā€¦07:02
tadzikI've prepared it too late07:02
rehabdollhttp://ingenting.se/klass4b.mp307:04
fakerootAnd about duplicating ports: like I said, some ports have different ./configure options. F.e. gpgme needs pinentry. If I use something with gpgme and using only console, why the heck should I build qt4 and whole xorg?07:04
fakerootAnd this brings another question imo.07:05
fakerootShould Pkgfile have another section like # Provides and should we name ports to suggest their options like flavours in BSD? F.e. pinentry-nox11?07:05
fakerootThis is only a question of course.07:06
tadzikI have my wicd-curses in my ports07:06
tadzikwithout pygtk and stuff07:06
tadzikbut I didn't know how to name my gcc-without-objc07:06
tadzikso it's just gcc, duplicating the core one :F07:06
fakerootYes, but if something needs pinetry and you have pinentry-nox11, prt-get will try to install pinentry, so # Provides: pinentry in pinentry-nox11 Pkgfile whould be enough...07:07
tadzikmhm07:07
tadzikI see your point07:07
pitillofakeroot: in that case I see a personal port is the way to go, the port provided in a official repo it's the base, if you need any extra/option flag, you can pick it up and maintain it yourself, better than making Pkgfiles harder to read07:07
pitillofakeroot: I maintain some of them in a repo to keep my server clean and with my needed options07:08
rehabdollfeel free to post your ideas on the ml. preferably with a patch :)07:08
fakerootpitillo: Yes, and that's what I do, but imagine, that someone uses portdb to search pinentry and sees 3 ports. It would be easier to see pinentry-curses, pinentry-gtk and pinentry-qt imo.07:09
pitillocrux for production server?, bleding edge for production server?, these questions are very hard to answer atm for me, maintaining some services in a CRUX production server (with my repo to fill my needs) and I have less problems than maintaining other distros...07:09
pitillofakeroot: I think then renaming the ports in personal repo can be enought07:10
pitillos/then/than (not sure if it's well said)07:10
fakerootpitillo: OK, but you have pinentry-curses and gpgme needs pinentry, so prt-get want to build pinentry and whole xorg and qt. That's my point of needing # Provides: in Pkgfile.07:11
fakerootHmm wait, I might be wrong...07:11
fakerootOr I ain't.07:12
pitilloI see, then you need another port gpme-pinentry to link with it (or may be it will pick it up)07:12
fakerootpitillo: That's the other way of solving dependency problem.07:13
pitillofakeroot: it's a hard discussion, and may be I am not a good candidate to discuss this for lack of knowledge07:13
fakerootBut if this is something with a long dependency list, I might need to rename a half of contrib ports.07:13
fakerootThis is only a little suggestion from lame CRUX user like me :)07:14
pitillowell, I see that can be hard, but it can be solved in 2 ways, looking for a solution like you say adding more info to pkgfile, or letting the user make whatever he wants07:14
fakerootpitillo: Yes, but then we will have many duplicates in portdb.07:15
pitillothink that CRUX let you do whatever, but looking for general solutions can be hard (like I said, this can be a good talk with people who has more knowledge)07:15
pitillotrue, but they will be there, then you have "official" and personal repos to check how are people doing their ports07:16
pitilloand verify which one fills your needs07:16
pitillothe "official" one will depend directly in how the maintainer does the job too07:17
fakerootHmm, just wanted to start something like brainstorm about that :)07:17
pitillothis can be a good talk/discussion like I said07:18
fakerootI'll try to write something about that to ml when I have some time.07:18
pitillofakeroot: I like discussing things, but like always, is so hard to get time for the comunity and try to stay together to propose/discuss/ask/request ....07:18
fakerootAnd UTC complicates it too.07:19
pitillofakeroot: like rehabdoll told you, that can be a good idea too, "non temporal solution"07:19
pitilloyep07:20
fakerootWell, maybe ml would be the best way...07:20
fakerootAhh, and another thing. Isn't install much more elegant than cp or mv in Pkgfile? :)07:21
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thrice`hm, latest udev kills off /dev/hd* rules  .  that's interesting07:56
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tilmanfeel free to keep bringing up this x11-fonts-dejavu (non-)issue13:15
thrice`perhaps at release time is best for such a thing13:16
tilmanyep13:18
tilmanthtat's what i said (ish) when i took the port13:18
tilmanfrigging gprs fail13:18
Rotwanghi [;13:32
Rotwangive noticed "user" option for filesystem13:32
Rotwangdoes that mean that orsinary user will be able tyo run "mount ip:blahblah?"13:33
Rotwangi have no way to check it myself atm13:34
mike_kRotwang: kind of13:41
Rotwangkind of?13:43
Rotwang[;13:43
Rotwangmike_k: ive been given a mission to add nfs shaed directory to ubuntu laptops of our HR department13:44
Rotwangso it needs to mount at boot, and in case of network sortage it needs to be remounted after network is down13:44
Rotwangso im looking for a best way to do it13:47
Rotwangbut cant get much help on google and irc :C13:47
mike_kRotwang: 'user' option allows ordinary user to mount fs.13:51
mike_knfs would need some forcing on unmounting on network outage, AFAIK13:52
Rotwangmhm13:52
Rotwangmike_k: maybe you have some good advices for me about nfs? [;13:53
mike_kRotwang: not really. I just remember having pain to umount it.13:57
Rotwanghehe13:57
Rotwangi always thought managing nfs shares client side was much more comfortable13:58
mike_kwho knows what git hook to use on the remote repo to get commit messages sent somewhere?13:58
mike_kRotwang: maybe it is or it was.13:58
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tilmanmikepost-update maybe14:25
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mike_ktilman: yep, I was unaware of git-show14:32
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tilmanwhat does git-show have to do with the post-update hook? :D14:35
mike_kI was hoping it can show commit messages14:40
tilmanhang on14:41
tilmanfuck it14:41
tilmancan't ssh into crux.nu14:41
sinistrecrux.later :>14:42
mike_ktilman: thanks, forget it14:42
tilmanmike_k: shouldn't be too hard to google this anyway ;D14:43
tilmansinistre: haha, right14:43
mike_kyeah, it should14:43
thrice`omg, crux.nu is dying14:47
tilmanno, but my connection sucks ass14:48
tilmani'm not willing to wait 60 seconds to ssh in14:48
thrice`tilman, did you see intel 2.10 will require KMS?14:56
tilmanno14:57
thrice`they stripped out all UMS stuff, so I think if you don't have KMS enabled, X simply won't start14:57
thrice`well, this is how I understand it14:57
tilmanwow15:00
thrice`sorry, just read that and found it "interesting" :)15:01
tilmanno, it really is wow-ing15:08
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tilmanwow-worthy15:08
tilmanwow-able15:09
tilmanttyl15:09
sinistrenot enough orcs.15:09
jseJust not that WoW. :>15:09
sinistre:>15:09
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thrice`oh :)15:15
thrice`I took "wow" as "big f'ing deal" ;)15:15
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jseInitially that's what I understood as well. These days you can never be too sure, though. :p15:19
sinistreI've heard KMS isn't fully reliable, it probably needs more WAAAGH!15:27
thrice`I had some issues on 2.6.30, but .31 and .32 have been great15:33
sinistreheh, my own current desktop experience is probably not much to go by atm. :p15:34
thrice`not good? :)15:38
sinistreI've no idea why, but the "linux desktop" frequently remind me of this -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ork_(Warhammer_40,000)#Technology15:39
sinistrethrice`: playing around with a few too many moveable parts atm. :p15:39
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joacimsomeone tried to tell me that linux-based systems and their applications are behind windows on the progress of new hardware. such as cpus and graphics15:48
joacimmakes poor use of multiple smp-enabled systems15:48
joacimtoday15:48
joacimdont quite know what to think about that15:48
sinistrewell, the first part is probably true, since no hardware manufacturer are busting any veins to get linux drivers working at launch day.15:50
sinistresecond part is pretty laughable.15:50
joacimi dont quite know what he meant either :/15:51
sinistrejust tell him about the altix, and ask him how many cpus windows runs on. ;)15:51
joacimi do agree that graphics arent quite at the top. and is laughable as a gaming platform. but i dont think thats where these systems should be put to use either15:51
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jsejoacim: yeah, if you want games then the best bet is to consider a proper games console. :p16:41
joacimalways did prefer my ps2 over desktop computer gaming =)16:47
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