IRC Logs for #crux Sunday, 2009-12-06

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cruxbot[opt.git/2.6]: glib: updated to 2.22.3.03:26
cruxbot[opt.git/2.6]: git: updated to 1.6.5.5.03:26
cruxbot[opt.git/2.6]: libpng: updated to 1.2.41.03:26
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cruxbot[opt.git/2.6]: gtk: updated to 2.18.4.04:31
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clareHi all, I have decided to realy work at crux, but as yet cannot spend much time especially on IRC.04:34
clares/realy/really/04:35
clareso my first problem with a new machine, rsync seems to need getaddrinfo. THis stops it getting the ports. I had to put the IP numbers into /etc/ports/core.rsync04:37
clarefirefox had the same problem.04:37
tilmanclare: did you check your /etc/resolv.conf?04:42
clareHi Tilman, yes, I am really puzzled by this as it has never happened before.THe only oddity is that the machine is capableof 64 bit and rsyncmay be bothered.by that04:55
clareI can get theip numbers with dig or host.04:55
tilmanhuh04:56
tilmanhuhstrange04:56
clareMy other questions - you may remember me complaining about the caps lock light. Well I still have the light, I have not yet started evilwm which I now suspect was the problem.04:59
clareBut before proceeding, I have 3 xterms which are quite usable so I dont need a window manager just yet, But of the three, one looks as though it is  ? aliased.05:01
tilmanclare: anyway,,l what does "rscyn need addrinfo" mean? what's the problem exactly?05:01
clareIt sent an error message I am thinking how easiest to get it to here.05:04
tilmansee the paste url in the topic05:05
sirmacikOh, thx Nomius [;05:10
clarehttp://paste.lisp.org/+1YQL   its number was 9167705:14
tilmanokay, that's a problem with resolv.conf05:21
clareOH! so is there a way to fix it?. I have3 nameservers in there but no search05:25
tilmanif dig can resolve crux.nu, then rsync should be able to do it, too05:28
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clareTilman: Ihave added a run on my no 2 install which is like the other was earlier. shows the resolv.conf05:53
clareTHe answer may come to you later. Meantime how about these Xterms05:54
clareI have added to the paste the 3 xterms from this machine which are the same I always use these same 3. The question is why does the first one look different from the other two.05:57
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clareBlurred on the sidebar and not clear and crisp in the writing, "improved"  by anti-aliasing (?) perhaps.05:59
tilmanum, how would i know without seeing a screenshot? :P06:01
clareI will make you one but not sure how long as I will need to install the scrot06:02
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jseThat problem sounds like you should try a different font in your xterm.06:14
jseI was also going to say that I've had such problems in the past but they turned out to be the monitor's fault.06:15
jseThat was mostly fixed by having the monitor autorefresh itself.06:15
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clarenothing is ever smooth, one of the required routines wont pkge  please see paste http://paste.lisp.org/+1YQL/3  (added)06:21
sinistrethat doesn't look that bad, apparently you're missing mp3 support for imlib..06:23
clarejse: I have not specified a font, I expect them all  to use the same. how do I specify?  especially howdo I specify the one I like?06:24
sinistre(don't ask me WHY imlib wants some mp3 related crap)06:24
sinistreor rather idtags for audio stuff06:24
tilmanmp3s may contain coverart06:25
clarehehe no I wont,but souds as though I can force itto proceed.06:25
sinistretilman: ah. I never thought that was part of the mp3 file..06:25
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clareI have finally made a couple of screenshots, but it looks as though jse was right about the monitor, as the left side writing is more blurred on its left and crisp on its right.06:42
clareI do have a webpage but have forgotten how to use it. I might have worked that out by next weekend. Probably that is all for this week anyway for these problems,06:44
clareWill visit next weekend06:45
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cruxbot[opt.git/2.6]: htop: update source10:24
Rotwanghttp://paste.lisp.org/display/9168210:40
Rotwanglol10:40
sinistrepractically since the stone-age, IOW. :>10:41
Rotwangi had to rebuild bc [;10:42
sinistrerevisioist. :>10:43
Rotwangand i always use perl as calculator10:43
sinistre*revisionist* sigh..10:43
Rotwangnot bc or dc10:43
sinistreI always use TI. :]10:44
RotwangTI.?10:45
sinistre;)10:45
strawhaha @ error message10:48
tilmanRotwang: texas iinstruments... ie a calculator10:56
* tilman uses the ruby shell :p10:57
* straw uses hugs ;]10:57
* gcov irb too11:01
Rotwangperl!11:12
thrice`zsh? ;)11:13
thrice`print $(( 2 + 2 ))11:14
thrice`:>11:14
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gnufsi'm trying to decide what distro i should try on some 100MHz, 233MHz and 266MHz laptops i'm gonna receive in a couple of weeks12:05
tadzikfreedos :)12:06
gnufsi'm torn between crux, arch and kongoni (a free slackware variant)12:06
Rotwangim not sure if they will work without some messing around12:07
sinistredepends on what you're planning to do with them. If you're going to put Gnome/KDE on them, crux is probably not the best fit. ;p12:07
gnufsgnome/kde on a 100MHz machine with 40MB RAM??12:08
gnufsdon't think so sir12:08
sinistrejust make sure you've got plenty of swap. :D12:08
gnufsi'm not even sure if framebuffer will be lean enough ;)12:08
sinistre:>12:09
gnufsthe whole kmandla phenomenon got into my blood.12:09
teK_you can always add a decent SSD :>12:10
sinistremh, I had crux on a p166 with 32MB ram a few years ago. most things worked, but browsers were a pita.12:10
gnufssinistre, you ran X on it?12:11
sinistreyeah, fluxbox12:11
gnufsbut then it was constantly swapping i presume12:11
sinistrenot really.12:11
gnufsinteresting12:11
sinistrebut it was as I said a few years ago, it might have changed a bit since then.12:11
gnufsthen i'll stick to the older X, if that's the case12:12
sinistreyou could always try first and see what happens12:12
gnufsthat's the plan :)12:12
gnufsthe only bit that's bothering my conscious (and makes me consider kongoni) is that crux is not 100% free12:13
gnufsthen one could easily spin a free variant i presume :)12:13
sinistrecrux install unfree things? I'm surprised.12:14
tadzikoh gosh12:17
tadzikthis flash in repos: who forces you to use it?12:17
tadzikI have no non-free software on my crux and I'm quite happy with it12:17
tadzikwell, maybe the intel firmware12:18
teK_the cool thing in free software is: you can always start a project to replace unfree software :)12:18
tadzikyeah. Let's use GNU/Hurd :>12:19
gnufsnot really needed12:19
sinistretadzik: didn't you know, just because there are ports for unfree stuff, the entire distro is tainted since it facilitates the infection. How these people handle the fact that their very browsers do the same is another question. :>12:19
gnufsbut one can take the extra step and use linux-libre12:19
gnufsanyway, i'm not forcing on you12:19
tadzikor gnewsense12:19
gnufswas just talking about my own concern12:19
sinistregnosese12:19
sinistre*gnosense*12:19
tadziknewsense sounds pretty like nonsense in some fancy dialect :>12:19
gnufstadzik, i'm already using gNS :)12:20
tadzikfree enough, not light enough, huh? :)12:20
gnufsyeah, at least currently12:20
gnufshence my thinking about kongoni12:20
sinistrerofl, OpenGL considered "Non-Free"12:22
gnufsnot anymore12:22
gnufsmay try reading more up-to-date sources12:22
sinistremaybe they should update their faq then12:22
gnufsyeah, lotsa dead pages on gnewsense.org12:23
gnufsbut it was a great for the whole free software community12:23
gnufsmostly thanks to gNS developers' decision to blacklist openGL, SGI actually changed their licensing12:24
gnufs*a great win12:24
sinistresure, gnewsense must have looked like a battleship on sgi's radar.12:26
gnufsif you wanna scorn gnewsense, well it's your decision to so. but it was the _direct_ result of fsf's and gnewsense's actions, that sgi changed their licensing12:27
gnufsit's sad for me though that people feel the need to be hostile against free software people12:28
gnufsyou may not see their actions necessary, but they're not really doing any harm to you12:29
gnufsand in some cases, like the openGL issue, they actually have concrete benefits to the whole12:29
sinistreI'm not hostile against people who do free software. I'm allegic to hypocrites with an overinflated ego who tries to push their own agenda on other people.12:30
gnufsanyway, think what you wish. if you're interested, interwebs should be full of the free software movement's opinions and arguments12:30
sinistrenot saying that you, or "free" software people in general are such, but there are plenty around.12:30
gnufssinistre, not getting how getting a more free license for a software is pushing or harming people12:31
gnufsyes, there are some overenthusiastic free software activists around, but most of them are quite okay people in my experience12:32
gnufsthey're just trying to accomplish something and you can't be all non-aggressive and pacifist when you're fighting for such a goal.12:32
sinistredude, I know you haven't done this, so don't take it personally, ok? We've had these "free software or die" people coming here before, denouncing crux, demanding changes across the board for little reason other than satisfying their own agenda.12:33
sinistrethat's pushy, and annoying as hell.12:33
gnufsi see. as i said i can't push you anything, but i also think that as soon as i get the necessary skills and oppportunity, i'd spin a free crux and share it with people. not to spite you, but solely because i'd have liked to have such a thing myself12:34
rehabdollwell thats atleast not hypocrisy12:34
gnufsbut i see you point about some people's being annoying12:34
rehabdolli turn red everytime people start to mock stallman and fsf12:34
sinistreI find it highly hypocritical to preach "freedom" and trying to use supression of choice as a mean to archive this "freedom".12:41
sinistres/and/while/12:41
thrice`for "free" crux, I guess you'd just need a nice rsync --exclude list for ports.12:42
gnufsthrice`, there's also the kernel12:42
gnufsit would need to be deblobbed12:42
gnufsor just use linux-libre releases for ease12:43
thrice`oooh jeez12:43
gnufsthrice`, it's not an easy job ;)12:43
rehabdollyeah, linux ships firmware12:43
tadzikkernel? is kernel even supported by any way in crux?12:43
tadziks/supported/shipped/12:43
sinistreyeah12:43
tadzikoh yeah, tarball on install cd12:43
thrice`yes, the tarball is12:43
rehabdollwell, its on the iso :)12:43
gnufs:)12:43
tadzikshould be patched and retared12:43
gnufshow would you boot to the iso without a kernel :D12:43
tadzikarr, non-free kernel!12:44
rehabdollhurd!12:44
rehabdolli ran a hurd partition a while back12:44
rehabdollit ruled12:44
rehabdoll:)12:44
tadzikI even once booted this kernel :>12:44
thrice`stripping the kernel is where I start to roll my eyes12:44
* straw rolls with thrice` 12:45
tadzik...even if the Hurd didn't depend on Linux code (and as far as I know, it does, but since I think they have their design heads firmly up their *sses anyway with that whole microkernel thing, I've never felt it was worth my time even looking at their code), I don't believe a religiously motivated development community can ever generate as good code except by pure chance.12:45
tadzik--Linus12:45
rehabdolli applaud people who live as they preach12:45
straw"freedom" is cool and all, but zealotism isn't12:45
rehabdollofcourse not12:47
teK_FSF is forcing info pages on me :(12:48
thrice`I never thought hurd was actually real, I guess.  just something imaginary :D12:48
straw like.. "GNU Hurd 'em Forever"12:49
strawOk, that was a bad one, sorry.12:49
rehabdolldebian has a hurd-port12:49
rehabdollhttp://www.debian.org/ports/hurd/12:50
strawI prefer GNU/kFreeBSD over the Hurd ;]12:50
rehabdollwell sure, if you want it to work :)12:51
straw:D12:51
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rehabdollspeaking of free software, im going to boot into win7 and play call of duty13:17
rehabdoll\o/13:18
Rotwang[;13:19
Rotwangand im going to fire up my ol' ps213:19
Rotwangand play something13:19
sinistrew7 & cod, free software courtesy of tpb. :>13:20
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jkramerI'm playing Manhunt 2 in wine :)13:37
Rotwang[;13:39
jkramer...and watching downloaded movies at the same time \o/13:42
jkramer...and chatting13:42
jkramerTrue multitasking. Do that on you fscking iPhone! :D13:42
Rotwangnice13:43
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sinistre13:47
sinistrehttp://tinyurl.com/y9d5lvz13:47
sinistrewtf13:47
sinistrepaste fail. :/13:48
jkramerBwahaha, that's why iPhone users don't need multitasking anymore :D13:50
sinistre:p13:50
jkramerIs it multitasking when you're not active?13:51
jkramerI mean, watching movies and reading chats is rather passive13:52
* Rotwang is looking for some good opensource strategy game13:52
sinistreof course it's multitasking.13:52
jkramerFrom the view of the OS of course, but for me?13:52
sinistreyour brain still has to process the information13:52
sinistreall jokes aside.13:52
tadzikRotwang: wesnoth? :P13:53
jkramerfreeciv :)13:53
Rotwangwesnoth boring13:55
Rotwangfreeciv is ok13:55
Rotwangany more suggestions?13:55
tadzikwesnoth boring–freeciv ok13:55
sinistrexboard. :>13:55
jkramerThere are some engines for existing game data of popular games13:55
tadzikI've just experienced enlightenment13:55
jkramerE.g. CnC, Total Annihilation etc.13:55
tadziklgeneral13:56
sinistretadzik: so did we, in 1995. We've now moved on to other window managers :>13:56
jkramerI think CnC1 was released for free some time ago, so you won't have to steal the game data :)13:56
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tadziksinistre: hah :)13:57
tadzikI'm still on dwm though  :)13:58
jkramerI'm using subtle for a while now, not bad either :)13:59
sinistrethat looks nice, even got a systray.14:00
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jkramerThe widget system is a bit wonky compared to WMs like awesome though14:01
sinistreI think I'll wait to see what kdesc4.4 brings first. Apparently kwin will sport both tabs *and* tiling windows now. :p14:03
tadzikwow14:04
tadziksounds good14:04
sinistreyep14:04
jkramerIs kdesc part of KDE or is it just a normal WM with a funny name?14:05
sinistreno, it is was was called kde before.14:06
jkramerAh14:06
sinistrethey changed it because it was a bit strange that there are plenty of applications that *are* kde apps, like amarok, but have their own release schemes.14:06
sinistreso, amarok is a kde app, but not part of kde.14:07
sinistrewhich is a bit silly14:07
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jkramerWeird14:08
* straw agrees14:08
jkramerThat's like wondering why all windows applications aren't released together with each new windows version :)14:08
sinistrenot really. kde applications tend to be quite a bit more integrated with eachother than your average windows app.14:09
joacimmore comparable to macosx?14:17
sinistreI don't know really, but my guess is that it's more integrated by far than any other desktop.14:19
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sinistrejoacim: to be more specific; I don't think osx has something like akonadi where you can store all your emails, bookmarks, contacts, rss-streams etc, and have them universally accessible to all native osx applications.14:27
joacimany application that need access to my contacts or calendar can access them14:32
sinistreand if you make a change, you can immediately see that change in some other application that you have open that shows the same day?14:33
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joacimyes14:34
sinistreok, that's cool, seems like it's something in the same direction.14:35
joacimI dont think there is a common system for feeds or bookmarks tho14:37
joacimbut all the other features you mentioned are covered14:37
sinistreno, that's what I thought. I don't think anyone has taken the concepts that far.14:37
joacimI'm not really interested in sharing bookmarks and feeds between applications, but it would be very nice if i could sync them between computers14:39
tilmanyou can use xmarks to sync bookmarks (if you're using firefox at least)14:40
sinistrethere is nothing that says you can't do stuff like that too. this is just for local or groupware settings.14:41
sinistreand I can definitely see benefits from different applications being able to share information.14:42
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strawhttp://www.monzy.com/intro/drama_lyrics.html14:42
strawhahaha14:42
sinistrewhat I find sligtly more worrying in the long term is this talk about contexts and applications using some kind of "ai" or what they are calling it in order to show you information it deems relevant for your current task. :>14:43
sinistrewe're not there yet though, but who knows, maybe it's back to good old fvwm by then. :p14:44
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jkramerAnyone running vmware(player) on 2.6.32?16:01
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isaakhi all, is there a USB install for CRUX?19:43
thrice`http://jaeger.morpheus.net/linux/crux/tmp/convert-to-usb-notes.txt19:48
isaakthrice`: thanks :D19:56
NomiusWhy in god's name that script says sudo all over it...20:10
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jaegerNomius: because I use sudo20:28
jaegerAnd because it's not a script, it was a set of notes copied and pasted from the terminal20:29
* thrice` uses sudo too :>20:29
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isaakhey thrice` can you repaste that link again, lost it and can't find anything useful in http://jaeger.morpheus.net/21:37
thrice`http://jaeger.morpheus.net/linux/crux/tmp/convert-to-usb-notes.txt21:38
thrice`sure :)21:38
isaakthanks once more :)21:38
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