IRC Logs for #crux Monday, 2010-04-12

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jhwi'm just trying out crux on a vm to figure out if its suitable for me. there remains one question though: does crux use mostly vanilla software?11:30
tadzikwhat do you mean?11:30
tilmanjhw: yes11:31
jhwwell, are the ports shipped with crux free of patches except for when they are needed to run a software on crux?11:31
jhwthx :)11:31
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juehello11:35
luxhhi jue11:35
cruxbot[core.git/2.6]: kbd: update to 1.15.211:37
cruxbot[core.git/2.6]: psmisc: update to 22.1111:37
cruxbot[core.git/2.6]: sudo: update to 1.7.2p611:37
cruxbot[opt.git/2.6]: whois: update to 5.0.211:38
frinnstbah, psmisc still dont build right on 64bit11:45
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frinnsthttp://www.infoworld.com/d/adventures-in-it/true-it-confessions-643?page=0,0&source=fssr11:51
frinnstworse than any horrorfilm ever made11:51
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tilman"output to punch cards"11:56
tilmano_O11:56
frinnstyeah, epic11:56
otwieraczSomebody uses postfix + procmail + fetchmail?11:56
frinnstyes11:56
otwieraczCan you give me ~/.fetchmailrc?11:56
otwieracz(best, if you use gmail)11:56
frinnstnah, some old pop3 crap11:57
otwieraczMaybe will help.11:57
frinnsti use fetchmail independently from postfix, so doubt it11:57
tadzikfetchmail and procmail here, but no postfix12:15
tadzikby the way, why would you need postfix when using gmail?12:22
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jueI'd like to have a bit more 'splitted' default configuration for sysklod with 2.7, comments ? -> http://pastie.org/91598812:38
frinnstme like, current config is pretty much useless :)12:40
tadzikho, is 2.7 getting closer and closer?12:43
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jueonly a little bit ;)12:44
frinnstany 2.7 repos up yet?12:44
thrice`that looks like a nice default indeed12:44
juefrinnst: no12:44
juefrinnst: I'd say we wait until gcc 4.5 is out12:46
tadzikAny pkgutils/prt-get improvements?12:47
frinnstyeah, probably a good call12:47
thrice`pkgutils6, you mean?12:47
thrice`:p12:47
frinnsttadzik: some footprint (finally) features12:47
frinnsti think :)12:48
tadzike.g?12:48
frinnstignore new12:48
juetadzik: dunno, we have to ask tilman for that, maybe the small changes listed in TODO2712:48
frinnstrather, no error on new12:48
tadzikho, llvm+clang in ports12:49
tadzik"possibly move man-pages from /usr/man to /usr/share/man" -- that's interesting. Why actually are they in /usr/man in CRUX?12:50
thrice`there's only 1 thing I would like in prt-get, after using a gentoo machine awhile back.  I can't figure out how to do it, though :(12:52
juetadzik: cause this was the default location for man-pages 9 years ago :)12:52
tadzik:D I see12:52
tadzikthrice`: what is it?12:52
thrice`on gentoo, when you issue an update or something, it will continue to fetch tarballs in the background, while the first app compiles12:52
tadzikah, pararell fetch, or how does one spell this awkward word…12:53
thrice`yeah, I guess so :>12:54
thrice`of course, not *that* much of a time saver, but kind of a "why not?"12:55
jueIIRC that was on cptn's todo list ...12:57
thrice`I thought it would be simpler, since you had all of the source URL's lined up anyway, but could not get it to work13:00
frinnsti dont like the idea of surrendering to /usr/share/man :)13:03
thrice`don't worry, slackware is /usr/man too :p  I say we remain true as well :D13:04
thrice`but, couldn't care less either13:04
juefrinnst: me neither, but the number of ports with --mandir=/usr/man is growing13:07
tadzikoh, are there any without this?13:07
tadzikhuh, has anyone tried llvm from tilman's repo?13:09
juewell, we looked at that before 2.5 last, and back than most ports didn't have the --mandir option13:10
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tadzikhttp://wklej.org/id/314746/13:12
tadziklooks like it's not that bad13:12
Rotwangcrazy prompt13:13
Rotwangmaybe I should change from '$' someday [;13:13
frinnstmy root-prompt is red and bold13:15
Rotwangmine is bold '#'13:15
frinnsthelps me avoid teh h0rrors :)13:15
cruxbot[contrib.git/2.6]: ntp: fix URL13:28
cruxbot[contrib.git/2.6]: syslog-ng: 3.0.5 -> 3.1.113:28
tilmantadzik: what's wrong with the port?13:29
tadziktilman: not sure: http://wklej.org/id/314741/ ← an attempt to compile hello world13:30
tilmaninteresting13:31
tadziknot much different with -v13:32
tilmandid you modify the port before building?13:35
tilmanwhat are your CFLAGS/CXXFLAGS for pkgmk?13:35
tadzikno modifying13:36
tadzikexport CFLAGS="-O3 -march=native", same CXXFLAGS13:36
thrice`-O3 madness13:37
tilmantry with Os13:39
tilmanerr, O213:39
tadzikCXXFLAGS="blah blah" prt-get blah will do, or do I need to change values in pkgmk.conf?13:40
RotwangIT WONT WORK13:40
Rotwangsorry for capslock13:40
Rotwangit was an accidnt [;13:41
Rotwangtadzik: prt-get execs pkgmk which in turn sourcess pkgmk.conf13:41
tadzikI see13:41
Rotwanghowever if you unset CFLAGS in your pkgmk.conf it might work13:45
frinnst-O3 ..13:48
frinnstbrr13:48
frinnsthttp://funroll-loops.info/13:49
frinnst\o/13:49
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tadzikyou may use -O0 as well ;)13:50
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Rotwangyeah13:53
Rotwang--fuck-upstream     haha [;13:54
tilman"Yet, binary distros are riddled with bugs, and are much more annoying to fix given the the cumbersome edit/build package/install package cycle."14:01
tadzikyep, works with -O214:05
thrice`tadzik, so, you think being a crux dev is easier, just having to push out silly ports ? :)14:05
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tadzikEasier than what? :)14:06
thrice`oops, I meant tilman14:06
thrice`but, than a binary distro14:06
tilmansure it's easier14:07
tilmanthrice`: i was just quoting funroll-loops.info14:07
thrice`oh, lol14:08
tilmanof course it's total crap14:08
Rotwanghttp://github.com/SFEley/candy/blob/master/LICENSE.markdown14:15
Rotwanghrhrhrhrhrhr14:15
frinnst:D14:18
thrice`hahaha14:18
tadzikNOTE: Despite its original gender association, the word "Dick" is used herein in a cultural context and not a genital context.14:18
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tadzikhttp://www.commodoreusa.net/Commodore_Phoenix_computer.html15:09
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frinnstswedes after winter: http://i42.tinypic.com/2dh8r55.jpg17:12
Rotwangdid they just defrost or what?17:15
Rotwang[;17:15
frinnstevery bit of sunshine helps to defrost :)17:21
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thrice`haha17:26
frinnstand now something to give you nightmares before bedtime: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWfhn7HHpMc&feature=player_embedded17:37
RotwangX__x17:53
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n0nsensehello, world18:45
* aep pokes n0nsense in the kidney18:46
* n0nsense cries18:48
aepso you guys do rolling releases?18:48
* aep might be slightly to drunk to do first contact18:48
* aep hands microphone to n0nsense18:48
n0nsenseit isn't the first contact for me anyway :P18:49
aepoh18:49
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aepso they do rolling release?18:49
n0nsenseafaik they do.18:49
aepthe pkg format looks sane. hm18:50
n0nsenseI'm more interested in how crux compares to slackware + pkgsrc18:50
aepexcept its bash.18:50
n0nsenseyou want bash anyway18:50
aepfor what? :D18:50
n0nsensedependencies18:50
n0nsenseI don't think autoconf™ will work without it18:51
aepuh right18:51
aepautorape18:51
aepcrux is like .. old it looks. why didnt i ever find that18:51
* aep downloads18:51
aepcrux-2.6? huh18:52
n0nsenseyou pull the ports tree anyway18:52
aepis that linux-2.6?18:52
n0nsenseno18:52
thrice`just coincidence :)18:52
aephrf no philosophical statement on the site18:54
thrice`the "about" is good18:54
n0nsense"CRUX is a lightweight, i686-optimized Linux distribution targeted at experienced Linux users."18:55
n0nsensenuff said :)18:55
* aep reads about18:55
aepn0nsense: so does arch claim to be18:55
aep"Simplicity over automation"18:56
aep<318:56
thrice`looking for an alternative to arch, or?18:57
aepok well that was a good read18:57
aepyes18:57
aepwe actually started a distro and are looking for a better base ;)18:57
aepor maybe just drop it and go use something existing18:58
n0nsensewe could make heresy an alternative ports db for crux18:58
thrice`ah, ok :)  anything particular you don't like about arch?18:58
n0nsensepublic rsync would be all we need18:58
aepyes, automation18:58
aepand dbus,rapekit,hal18:58
aepxml configs, all the weird windows crap18:58
n0nsenseI particularly hate the decreasing quality in arch packages18:59
aepjust wanted to say that18:59
aeppacman -R bluez still hangs btw18:59
aeptries to run some script i never wanted19:00
n0nsensedecreasing quality obviously includes the package manager :P19:00
aeppopularity seems to corelate with bad quality19:01
aepno qemu. depends on dbus. now i have to build my own >_<19:02
aepor find a real disk to try crux19:02
thrice`well, you probably won't get around dbus :(  FF needs it eg19:02
n0nsenseFF is badly written code made by monkeys19:03
aepwe recompile stuff to remove it19:03
aepor just not support things that cannot be fixed19:03
aeplike Microsoft Kde or Microsoft GNome19:03
thrice`I think the last thing linux needs is a new distro :p19:04
n0nsensewhat about Apple XFCE? :P19:04
aepthrice`: tastes differ19:04
aepand i believe there should be a distro for every taste19:04
n0nsensethrice`: additional ports db for crux would be fine for *me*, however I am the least significant bit in heresy :-)19:04
thrice`to answer your first question, CRUX is mostly 'rolling' release, but doesn't do major updates (like the toolchain) until release time19:05
aepwould be fine with me too, if i like the basics. no need to rebuild stuff that works19:05
aepwhich is why we wanted to use arch core and just replace SOME packages, but they started to be so nasty that it cannot be avoided19:06
thrice`so, what's wrong with crux ? :)19:07
aepnothing yet.19:07
aepi am trying to install it19:07
n0nsenseaep: coreutils-8.4$ ./configure --disable-dbus *hide*19:07
aepneed to compile qemu first, since the arch package is broken19:07
aepn0nsense: yeah...19:07
aepnot funny19:07
thrice`being source based, it's really easy to change a port if you don't like it19:08
aepdo you have flags like gentoo?19:08
aepdoesnt look like it19:08
thrice`no, usually ports just use a minimal-ish set of deps19:08
n0nsenseaep: I think the character to introduce a disabled flag is #19:09
aepuh looked like thats for versions19:09
thrice`things like use flags are too complicated :)19:09
aepyeah very19:09
n0nsenseaep: I was talking about comments :P19:09
n0nsense./configure # --enable-dbus19:09
aephm network config looks good :D19:10
aepn0nsense: i feel lied at19:13
n0nsensehm?19:13
aepPKGBUILD == Pkgfile renamed and incompatible19:14
aepfor no apparant reason19:14
n0nsense;)19:14
aepPkgfile doesnt seem to support install files19:14
thrice`it does, called "post-install" or "pre-install" as needed19:15
aepsad. i hoped it doesnt19:15
n0nsensethey make sense, when they are not overused19:15
thrice`sometimes you need to, for things like user creation19:15
aepsee. i dont want that19:15
n0nsenseI doubt crux overuses them, and if so, you can add your own version of the port19:15
thrice`they are not run by default19:16
aepat least its a better format to base on19:16
aepthey arent? cool19:16
aepexplicit user request?19:16
aepthats exactly what i had in mind19:16
thrice`yep, or through a variable19:16
thrice`(for global)19:16
n0nsenseI have to sleep now, good night19:17
aepnow i wish qemu was done compiling already so i can go try19:17
aepn0nsense: nighty19:17
n0nsenseaep: good luck, I hope crux is what you were looking for19:17
aepoh damn 2 am19:18
aepfunny that the package manager looks like what emg already built for heresy19:19
aepn0nsense: you know, you could have told us half a year ago :P19:19
aepn0nsense: and fix your irc client. it MSGs people on away.  use /away19:20
thrice`:)19:20
aepcan pkg* work with binaries?19:26
aeplooks all source19:26
thrice`the ports build packages19:26
aepah so pkg IS binaries?19:26
aep(sorry i still dont have crux installed. qemu still compiling)19:26
thrice`yep :>  so, 'pkgmk' builds a package from a port, which can be 'pkgadd'ed to the system19:27
aepgot a link to the sourcecode of pkg* ?19:27
aepnice19:27
thrice`there is a wrapper called "prt-get" which is mainly used to wrap that process (including doing dependencies)19:27
aepoh. pkgadd cant do deps? :/19:27
thrice`right.  pkgadd just installs the package19:28
aepi'm thinking maybe we should at the very least use that package manager. i LOVE the update rules. thats exactly what i want19:28
aepplease dont touch my /etc.19:28
aepits mine :D19:28
n0nsenseaep: I do use /away, and the away notices are intended. you don't see my away message when you just hilight me.19:29
thrice`so, you can do 'pkgmk', 'pkgadd package.pkg.tar.gz' for every one of firefox's deps, *or* (easier) a 'prt-get depinst firefox' which will do those for you19:29
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thrice`aep, configs are rejected by default if they exist, and you merge them with a tool called "rejmerge" (or by hand)19:30
aepgreat19:30
aepcan i redirect stuff? ie install all files that WOULD go in /etc, into /usr/etc for example19:30
aepn0nsense: it msgs me when i highlight you.19:31
n0nsenseaep: no, it sens you a NOTICE, not a PRIVMSG.19:31
thrice`http://crux.nu/gitweb/?p=tools/pkgutils.git;a=tree;h=master;hb=master   is the pkgutils files19:31
aepthanks19:31
aepwell, that simple.19:32
aep:D19:32
aephm or not. whats db_*19:33
aepah never mind19:33
n0nsense"Also accept *.tar.lzma source archives." <- do you use libarchive for that?19:36
aepstill trying to find that part19:36
thrice`yep19:36
aepew19:36
thrice`bsdtar :)19:36
aepwhy not just call tar?19:36
aepnow i'm confused19:37
aepits decent code though.19:37
aepunlike failman19:38
frinnstcrux lacks BASICS19:39
frinnstno fun19:39
frinnst</internal joke>19:39
thrice`plain tar is boring19:39
aepin what sense of boring?19:40
aepwell we're really looking for something with minimal dependencies. the drop of pacman.static was a knife in the chest for most power users who dont click through their ugly installer19:40
n0nsenseaep: btw, I think I did tell you about crux and slackware. not sure anymore though. good night now, I have to stand up at 7 >_>19:41
aepugh, better go sleep then. night19:41
aepah well, i'll continue tomorow as well. going to drop qemu on the compiler machine. my netbook wont finish this any soon :(19:48
frinnstwanna race? im building crux on arm.. sheevaplug19:48
aepheh19:49
frinnstsleep sounds like a good idea19:49
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