IRC Logs for #crux Friday, 2010-04-16

tilmanoops, i actually wanted to let #crux know last night00:51
tilmanso: one of the discs in the raid died00:52
pitillogood morning01:03
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cruxbot[opt.git/2.6]: [notify] nano: update to 2.2.402:22
cruxbot[opt.git/2.6]: [notify] jre: update to 1.6.0_2002:22
cruxbot[opt.git/2.6]: jre: update to 1.6.0_2002:22
cruxbot[opt.git/2.6]: quota: depends on tcp_wrappers02:22
cruxbot[opt.git/2.6]: socat: depends on tcp_wrappers02:22
cruxbot[opt.git/2.6]: vsftpd: depends on tcp_wrappers02:22
cruxbot[core.git/2.6]: curl: update to 7.20.102:26
cruxbot[core.git/2.6]: exim: depends on tcp_wrappers02:26
cruxbot[core.git/2.6]: openssh: depends on tcp_wrappers02:26
n0nsensethere is or at least was a bug in /etc/rc.d/sshd02:29
jue?02:31
n0nsenseyes02:32
n0nsensethere was some if [ -f /var/run/sshd.pid ] then killall `cat /var/run/sshd.pid`; rm -f /var/run/ssh.pid; fi02:32
n0nsenseI installed from the 2.6 CD yesterday so I don't know whether it is already fixed or not02:33
n0nsensethe cat is btw useless too02:33
n0nsensekillall `< /var/run/sshd.pid` *duck*02:33
jueahh, I see, you mean the missing d02:34
n0nsenseyes02:34
n0nsensejue: it looks wrong :P02:34
n0nsenseoops, kill not killall02:35
jueyeah, it's a _very_ old bug, that's the untouched original script by Per02:36
n0nsenseif I upgrade sshd and run rejmerge, it will be changed?02:37
jueif you give me some time to commit the fix ;)02:39
jueno need to run rejmerge if you are using default pkgadd.conf02:39
n0nsenseoh, alright02:43
n0nsensejue: well, I thought maybe this bug was known and already fixed ;)02:44
n0nsenseyou said it was old02:44
cruxbot[contrib.git/2.6]: openoffice: update02:45
RotwangteK_: ^02:45
Rotwang^__^02:45
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spaceninjahurray!02:56
* spaceninja and the peace was restored once again02:56
n0nsensecan everybody commit to contrib?02:59
cruxbot[core.git/2.6]: openssh: fixed start script02:59
juen0nsense: thanks for the report03:00
n0nsensejue: thanks for fixing :)03:00
Rotwangn0nsense: of course not03:03
* n0nsense wishes he was at home so he could play with crux :<03:13
n0nsensewhy am I not surprised to see nmh in contrib and no usb_modeswitch at all? :D03:18
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cruxbot[core.git/2.6]: openssh: update to 5.5p104:01
n0nsensejue: what version was there before?04:10
n0nsenseah, 5.404:11
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spaceninjanice, openoffice looks like a gtk application after the update06:47
frinnstwhat version?06:49
cruxbot[contrib.git/2.6]: pokerth: New port.06:50
spaceninja3.2, it might been jre, got updated at the same sysup06:51
frinnstnah, not jre06:52
spaceninjaok. I don't think it's fully gtk, it's something else, but it doesn't matter, it works :)06:56
thrice`you can hack it06:58
thrice`in my ~/.xinitrc, I have:06:58
thrice`export OOO_FORCE_DESKTOP=gnome06:59
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n0nsenseopt/tmux is broken07:49
n0nsensethe file is a 40407:49
frinnstthats sourceforges wonderful mirrors for you07:51
frinnsti suggest you put a url to a gentoo distfiles mirror in your pkgmk.conf07:51
n0nsenseno, not the mirrors07:53
n0nsensethe download link changed07:53
n0nsensehttp://npaste.de/QB07:53
n0nsensecan someone apply it please?07:53
n0nsensemd5-sum is still the same07:53
juen0nsense: works for me07:54
n0nsensejue: which one? the original link? strange...07:54
n0nsensethen it's the mirrors07:54
jueyeah, probably07:55
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n0nsensealthough this is the URL they offer on the tmux site07:55
frinnstworks here too, returns a 302 and redirects07:56
n0nsenseI bet everybody bloody hates sourceforge :307:56
frinnstyes :)07:56
jsesf provides a decent service until you get to tangle with their "astounding" round robin mirror system.07:58
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frinnstworks ok with a regular browser. not so much with wget07:59
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n0nsensein my opinion the web-UI continuously becomes worse08:06
n0nsensethere are similiar platforms with much better structure and organisation, if you ask me08:07
frinnstyeah sure, but you can atleast download with a regular browser08:19
frinnstwith wget you are pretty much left to the luck of the resolv :)08:19
otwieraczopt/fontforge/ has error 404.08:24
otwieracz(as 90% pacgaes which source is on sourceforge)08:24
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frinnstbad dns-cache..08:30
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otwieraczsourceforge works.08:33
otwieraczURL is wrong.08:33
n0nsensefrinnst: do you have an example for the gentoo thing?08:33
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otwieraczCan anyone try prt-get depinst fontforge?08:34
frinnstPKGMK_SOURCE_MIRRORS=(ftp://ftp.sunet.se/pub/Linux/distributions/gentoo/distfiles)08:36
frinnstotwieracz: works for me(tm) http://94f0d961e311274a.paste.se/08:38
otwieraczHow to clean dns cache?08:40
Zabaotwieracz, pester whoever runs your dns servers08:41
Zabaunless, of course, you have a local dns cache08:41
otwieraczI have dnsmasq on router, it's my DNS server.08:42
Zabawell, then it probably takes some signal for clearing the cache, I dunno.08:42
Zabanever used it08:42
n0nsensefrinnst: thanks08:43
jueotwieracz: send a SIGHUP and read man dnsmasq ;)08:45
otwieraczkill -1 PID08:58
otwieraczAnd nothing.08:58
n0nsensehmmmm09:06
n0nsenseopt/evilwm doesn't build either09:06
thrice`!google smart questions09:06
n0nsensethere is no /usr/include/X11/extensions/shape.h09:06
n0nsenseanybody knows which package provides it? should be in the dependencies I guess09:07
thrice`try "prt-get fsearch shape.sh"09:07
thrice`er, shape.h  of course09:07
n0nsenseoh, thanks09:07
n0nsensexext it is09:08
n0nsenseand wtf, it already depends on it o_O09:08
thrice`and it's installed? :)09:08
n0nsenseyep09:10
n0nsenseI upgrade it and see if that changes something09:10
n0nsensebtw, why are the docs in irssi removed in the Pkgfile?09:11
n0nsenseeh09:11
n0nsenses/irssi/vim/09:11
frinnstall docs and info files are removed09:11
thrice`well, all docs, info files, and locales are removed on CRUX09:12
frinnst.909:12
n0nsenseok09:12
n0nsenseas long as you don't remove manpages, it's fine :)09:12
thrice`I think Per's original philosphy when he invented CRUX, was that if he ever needed them, he'd use google :>09:12
n0nsenseyes, I read about it09:13
thrice`keeps the packages nice and trimmed :>09:13
n0nsenseI just uncomment this line for vim, since vim docs are the only docs I actually use ;)09:14
n0nsense(just non-man docs I don't want to use google for)09:14
n0nsenseblah, this was confusing :D09:14
thrice`so, how is your crux experience so far? :)09:22
n0nsensevery good :)09:24
n0nsensewhat about the format for Depends on: in Pkgfiles? Some of them contain , others don't09:26
joacimactually i never read the local docs09:35
joacimi always google09:35
aepn0nsense: did you find the include?09:36
aepwondering how much "out of the box"  crux works for devs.09:36
aepi regularly laugh at debian users when they have to hunt for headers :D09:37
thrice`n0nsense, either should work, actually09:38
n0nsenseaep: I did, it just was for some uber strange reasons not in the package I installed while setup09:39
aepuhu09:39
aepi'll wait a week for your judgement :)09:39
mike_k_n0nsense: "Depends on:"  can be omitted if there are no deps (in practice), but I'd keep that header anyway09:39
n0nsenseit was in there after upgrading :P09:39
aepas you've seen lucas is quite fond of arch :<09:39
n0nsenseindeed, he is09:40
n0nsenseI have seen enough of it though09:40
n0nsenseand while I am reinstalling anyway, I can just switch my window manager too09:40
aepwell we all agree it is broken. just not on how we unbreak it09:40
n0nsenseI think I might need a browser09:40
n0nsenseaep: switching to something else is the easiest09:41
n0nsense;)09:41
aepindeed. and a good short time solution09:41
otwieraczwget http://dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/fontforge/fontforge_full-20090923.tar.bz2 works?09:53
thrice`I've never tried arch, but it seems to get some bad feedback09:55
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n0nsenseunlike crux, arch's community sucks10:19
n0nsensethey tell you to RTFM even if your proposals are not in TFM10:19
n0nsensewhich makes it impossible for me to fix arch, simply because they won't listen to what I say anyway10:20
thrice`with crux, we just complain until tilman fixes it :>10:20
n0nsensesomehow the gcc download from the redhat server takes forever :X10:20
n0nsensethrice`: hrhr10:21
* n0nsense wonders where to get nvidia drivers10:21
thrice`there should be an nvidia port if you want to go that way :>10:21
n0nsenseyep10:22
n0nsensein the flaveur ports collection10:22
thrice`mm, not in opt?10:22
n0nsensenv is in opt or somewhere10:23
n0nsensexorg I think10:23
n0nsensebut nv and nvidia is not the same10:23
n0nsensethrice`: this is what made me curious10:26
thrice`hm, ok.  I can't get to crux.nu from work for some reason, but was pretty sure the binary driver existed in opt/ :(10:26
n0nsensehmm10:26
thrice`like, 99% sure :>10:26
Rotwang$ prt-get search nvidia10:26
Rotwangnvidia10:26
Rotwanghrhr10:26
spaceninjaopt10:26
n0nsenseweird, it does10:26
thrice`maybe because it has such a hidden name :p10:26
n0nsenseI was using the online search though, not prt-get10:26
n0nsense"Search ports". I assumed it to do the same :(10:27
Rotwangonline search shows opt/nvidia too10:28
n0nsensemmh I think I need the legacy driver10:28
Rotwanghttpup sync http://members.optushome.com.au/dfmarks/crux/ports/#nvidia-legacy nvidia-legacy10:30
* Rotwang feels bored10:30
Rotwangmy job is sometimes boring10:31
frinnstim also bored10:37
Rotwang:C10:40
Rotwangim going to drink some beers today10:40
Rotwangyay \:D/10:40
thrice`I drhink beers almost every friday :(10:40
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n0nsenseme not :(10:43
RotwangI try not to10:43
Rotwangtoo expensive10:43
Rotwang[;10:43
n0nsenseI don't have the time :P10:44
frinnsti cant move, my back is b0rked10:46
n0nsenseI can't think, I need coffee :D10:47
Rotwangfrinnst: what happened?10:49
frinnsti didnt lift with my legs :)10:52
Rotwanguhh10:53
thrice`haha10:54
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frinnstits a lot better today, last night i almost passed out on the floor11:31
frinnstcouldnt get up for over an hour :)11:31
teK_wtf11:31
cruxbot[opt.git/2.6]: cmus: 2.3.1 -> 2.3.211:38
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n0nsenseis it ok to introduce new variables in Pkgfiles?13:59
frinnstnot generally, no. like what?13:59
otwieraczI think no.13:59
n0nsensefor instance something I want to write a Pkgfile for has an additional timestamp13:59
otwieraczprt-get will not support it.13:59
n0nsense201003133713:59
thrice`for version?14:00
n0nsenseit's not about prt-get but about "may I use another variable called date to simplify upgrading or is introducing new variables strictly forbidden to be conforming to common other Pkgfiles"14:00
n0nsensearch does not allow additional variables unless prefixed with _, because you could overwrite some makepkg internals14:01
thrice`I guess I still don't understand what the "date" thing is, but I get your general concern14:04
n0nsenseit's not important for prt-get to know, but for my program14:05
n0nsenseon the other hand, I can use %s/2010foobar/2011foobar/ later, but that's ugly14:05
n0nsenseit's just for internal use14:06
thrice`ah, ok :>14:07
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n0nsensehttp://npaste.de/Cvlo5LstTi/ < that's what I have so far14:10
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n0nsensemostly copied from the arch PKGBUILD14:10
n0nsenseI actually don't understand why they wget parts of the source within build14:11
thrice`that's about as ugly and dangerous as you can get :p14:12
DaViruzlooks to me like $date is only used once?14:12
n0nsensesorry for spamming this channel :)14:12
n0nsenseDaViruz: twice14:12
n0nsenseDaViruz: line 11 and line 3014:13
DaViruzoh.14:13
DaViruzstill, i don't think two instances warrants a variable14:13
thrice`I would just spell it out myself, the variable seems overkill14:13
DaViruzthere are other words which are more redundant14:13
thrice`wget in the build is really nasty though14:14
n0nsenseoh, the only reason why this wget thing makes sense is md514:15
n0nsensethis part probably changes all the time14:15
thrice`then it's the packagers job to be sure it works, rather than some dangerous binary :>14:15
n0nsenseyep ;)14:15
n0nsenseI removed wget and moved that into source...14:16
n0nsenseis there a trick for the md5sums file?14:16
thrice`pkgmk -um  will update14:16
n0nsenseok14:16
spaceninjahi, is there a good video editing software in the repos'?14:17
n0nsenseI could just use * instead of that number14:18
spaceninjafound avidemux14:18
n0nsensehttp://npaste.de/cEL1iO4h32/14:21
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n0nsensedoes it look ok?14:21
thrice`I would personally use /usr/man, and simplify to mkdir -p ${PKG}/{etc,lib/udev,usb_modeswitch,usr/man/man1} , but looks nice :>14:22
n0nsensethanks :)14:23
n0nsensethrice`: although the expansion looks quite senseless :P14:25
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thrice`oops, I have an extra "," it seems before udev and usb_modeswitch14:30
thrice`I guess I hate long ports with useless comments and more calls than needed :P14:31
n0nsensehttp://npaste.de/5NXBopa2Lj/14:31
n0nsensecleaned up a little more, but no need to paste that14:34
* n0nsense starts his own repo14:34
thrice`looks great :>14:34
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n0nsensewhat's .footprint good for?14:47
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sinistreconfusing newbies. :>14:59
n0nsensecool15:16
n0nsense:P15:16
n0nsensethat's what every distro needs15:16
* n0nsense thinks of ubuntu15:16
sinistre:>15:16
n0nsenseI think ubuntu might be number one reason why most people are scared of terminals15:16
sinistren0nsense: obviously it's for seeing any differences between the package you got, and the one the packager got.15:17
sinistreand I blame windows for scaring people of the terminal.15:17
n0nsenseubuntu, windows, where's the difference/15:18
sinistrewell. there are two points in time wrt computer users. Pre Win95, and post win9515:18
sinistrecompletely different attitudes in users from these eras.15:19
n0nsensehey, I'm post win 95 :P15:19
n0nsensewin 95 was my first computer experience I think15:20
sinistreI'd think most linux users are eW95. :>15:20
sinistreAw95.15:21
n0nsensealthough I didn't do very much with 9515:21
n0nsenseewww 9515:21
n0nsense:P15:21
sinistremostly rebooting, I guess. Like most people. :p15:21
n0nsenseI didn't spend much time in front of a computer back then15:22
n0nsensebut I already learned how to use DOS15:22
sinistrethat's probably why you're here.15:22
n0nsensemy dad bought a win 95 computer and I learned how to use DOS15:23
n0nsenseI wonder how that happened15:23
n0nsensecan't recall... I was like 5 or 6 years old15:23
sinistrelet me guess; It was the only thing that actually worked reliably?15:23
sinistreor maybe you needed it for games? :p15:23
n0nsensenah, I think it showed one of it's menus and I asked my dad what it is15:24
tadzik3.1 :)15:24
* sinistre gets a flashback to the days of quemm, xms and ems..15:24
n0nsensehaha15:24
n0nsensewell, these days came later for me15:24
n0nsensewhen I didn't have internet connection in ~2002 or something, I ran freedos exclusively15:24
n0nsenseparallel with DOS 6.0 and Win 3.11 or something15:25
tadzikhah, when did I have internet connection15:25
tadziklike 4-5 years ago15:25
tadzikfor the first time I mean15:25
n0nsensefirst time I was in the internet with my own computer was with some ubuntu like 5 years ago :D15:25
n0nsensebefore that my parents had isdn and didn't want me to use it since it was expensive15:26
n0nsenseI was allowed to read my mails though15:26
sinistren00b. real cruxers started off with slackware in the 90's. :P15:26
n0nsenseI\15:26
n0nsensem too young to have started with slackware :P15:26
sinistreaah, the generation divide.15:27
* sinistre feels ooold.15:27
jaegerI remember setting up ppp on slackware for the first time, that was a pain15:27
jaegerkernel 1.3.19 or something15:28
sinistreheh, I only played around with that, it was too early for me for serious use.15:28
tadzikI was starting at RedHat 7.215:28
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tadzikstill it was to difficult for me to install it :)15:28
sinistreI remember being able to push the cursor around in the output text in the terminal and erase stuff that had been put out by ls etc. :P15:29
tadzik:D15:29
n0nsenseI was starting at SuSE 8 :P15:29
sinistreand, my first encounter with vim. "How do I get out of this!"15:29
n0nsensewhen I was 11 or so15:29
n0nsensesinistre: with the X button in  KDE :P15:30
sinistreahem..15:30
sinistreit wasn't available back then. :>15:30
tadzikbutton15:30
tadzikkde15:30
tadzik:D15:30
sinistrethat was years before kde.15:30
n0nsensespeaking of which, why is there no twm?15:30
tadzikwho needs it anyways?15:31
sinistreaon. :>15:31
jaegerI have a great screenshot of dual-head twm somewhere15:31
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frinnsti feel like a newbie. my first kernel was 2.4.2015:31
tadzik2.4.sth, yeah15:31
tadzikredhat 7.2, as I said15:31
sinistreblergh15:32
jaegerhttp://jaeger.morpheus.net/linux/images/twm-is-awesome.jpg <-- there it is, heh15:32
n0nsenseI don't remember, but I think 2.2.sth15:32
tadzikI had adsl back then, yet my modem was only 2.6 compatibile15:32
tadzikand somehow 2.6 wasn't working on my motherboard… I know, weird15:32
sinistrerh7.x was horrible, but then again the earlier weren't very nice either.15:33
tadzikso I was waiting with rh72 for the new motherboard, and then there was ubuntu 7.0415:33
sinistreo_O15:33
tadzikthen I came to Polish ubuntu channel on irc, and they said "xchat how lame, use irssi!"15:33
frinnstlol15:33
tadzikthen "gnome, you dork, use xfce!"15:33
jaegerI think I used every version of RH from 3 to whenever fedora came around15:33
n0nsenseoh, I know that kind of things :D15:34
n0nsensetadzik: reminds me of my own story15:34
n0nsenseI landed on swissirc15:34
tadzik:)15:34
tadziknostalgia time?15:34
n0nsense#linux, best place ever... back then15:34
tadzik:')15:34
sinistrejaeger: 4.0 - 7.2, then I called it quits with that dist.15:34
n0nsensenow it sucks and they hate me :D15:34
tadzikI still have the book with rh7.215:34
tadzikit says "Gnome is so versatile you don't need anything else"15:34
sinistrehaha15:35
jaegersinistre: I haven't looked back either :)15:35
sinistreindeed.15:35
n0nsenseI tried to move to another IRC network since one of the ircops at swissirc was a stupid mirc kiddie with an uber large ban-key15:35
n0nsense*move the channel15:35
tadzikhuh, mir15:35
tadzik*mirc. Never really used this15:35
n0nsenseso, the nice part of the channel came with me, the rest is still there :>15:35
tadzikyet I remember Pirch 95 in primary school15:35
jaegerI used mirc before xchat/irssi, wrote rather a large script for it back then, heh15:36
tadzikPirch, anyone?15:36
frinnstmirc, icq and quake215:36
frinnstquake2 was the reason i bought a pc :)15:36
n0nsenseat least you knew how to write one15:36
* sinistre never was much of an irc'r until his computer broke so graphics wouldn't work. irssi was the natural choice then. :p15:36
tadzikI had wolf3d with my first pc15:37
jaegerhehe15:37
tadzik386 then, norton commander, stuff :15:37
tadzik:')15:37
frinnstbah, amiga ftw :D15:37
tadzikand windows 3.1 and then 486dx2 and 3.11 :')15:37
frinnstncomm! /X!15:37
tadzikhttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/87/Pirch98.png15:37
tadzikhah, this newer versin15:37
tadzikwith stupid tabs and this blue boxes15:38
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jaegergrrr... hate it when users submit helpdesk tickets but spell their own email address wrong15:59
jaegerthanks for shitting up the ticket with bounce messages15:59
sinistre"Corporate punishment"? :p16:08
jaegerheh16:10
frinnstharhar16:25
n0nsenseare there any binary repos for crux? :D16:25
n0nsenseI mean, it's possible to put all the precompiled stuff online aswell16:26
tadziksteal some from archers :>16:26
n0nsensesteal what exactly? :)16:26
tadzikdunno. Why would you need binaries anyway :)16:27
tadzikah, gnite16:28
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frinnstanything specific youre looking for?16:28
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n0nsensegrmpf17:17
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n0nsensenvidia-legacy is too old and nvidia is too new17:17
jseWelcome to no man's land.17:17
teK_IF your are adventurous, you can try nouveau17:18
* sinistre presents "the nvidia landmine"17:18
teK_provided your card is supported17:18
n0nsensemaybe there is yet another port?17:18
n0nsensemy card worked fine on arch17:18
n0nsenseit's just a version between legacy on crux (seems to be for *very* old cards) and modern nvidias17:19
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cruxbot[contrib.git/2.6]: sakura: 2.3.4 -> 2.3.720:17
cruxbot[contrib.git/2.6]: ant: 1.7.1 -> 1.8.0 fixes bug 58020:17
cruxbot[contrib.git/2.6]: yacy: 0.91 -> 0.9420:17
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spaceninja gmorning23:05
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