IRC Logs for #crux Friday, 2010-05-28

cruxbot[opt.git/2.6]: lcms: new source url01:00
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pitillogood morning01:06
Rotwangmorning01:08
RotwangI'm looking sane way to manage nfs shares01:09
Rotwangsay about 50 people have access to one nfs share01:09
Rotwangnow someone deletes important files from that share01:10
Rotwangteh question is how can i prevent it?01:10
Rotwangor keep some kinds of back ups?01:10
Rotwangsnapshots?01:10
Rotwangis there some popular method?01:10
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joacimmutilation02:03
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Rotwang1mutiwhat? [;02:09
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entellanero: YUCK08:06
entellanero: I was just looking at slackware initscripts >.<08:06
entewhy do they hardcode every single initscript? :(08:08
thrice`the main init script is awful indeed (rc.S I think?).  it's a "do this, then do this, then do this" kinda thing, which results in an awful boot08:09
enteexactly08:10
enteand I have no clue how to add my own initscripts except hardcoding them08:10
thrice`someone was showing me gentoo's the other day, which is written in C  I think?  that was really quick08:10
thrice`ente, rc.local is probably appropriate08:10
entegentoos initscripts? :D08:11
entedo they run make in /etc/rc.d when they want to add new ones? :D08:11
thrice`or init system.  they use openrc  I think08:11
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entethrice`: I just renamed rc.inet1 and put the slackware rc.net in that place08:17
enteand the sysv init they layer on top of their own one sucks too08:19
entewhy would one do that?08:19
enteI wonder what else I could check out... maybe frugalware08:19
thrice`it's not used, but things like vmware search for those directories I think, so he kludged 'em in08:19
thrice`my buddy almost had me sold on gentoo yesterday, I might give that a spin over the weekend08:20
Zababah, gentoo..08:20
enteI never tried it...08:21
entethrice`, Zaba: what do you use when not on crux?08:21
ZabaI run it on my workstation08:21
Zabafor, like, four years or so08:21
linopoluseveryone a suggestion how to get evdev working here?08:21
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ZabaI don't really know whether gentoo's issues are primarily administrative or technical.08:22
Zabait seems to have plenty of both...08:22
Zabaif I was to give a "Gentoo Has Issues" speech, I wouldn't know where to begin08:24
jaegerI like gentoo reasonably well for a desktop but I wouldn't put it on a server again08:25
jaegerat my last job there were 20ish gentoo servers, was a pain even with binary upgrades08:26
entewould you put crux on a server?08:26
jaegersure08:26
jaegernot that many, though :)08:26
jaegerI'm mostly using ubuntu LTS for servers now08:27
enteI think I'd install NetBSD if it wasn't a vserver08:27
enteyuck, ubuntu?08:27
ZabaI run netbsd on a server08:27
entewhy not at least use debian?08:27
jaegerwhy use debian over ubuntu?08:27
Zababetter QA08:27
jaegerperhaps, though I haven't had any major problems with ubuntu so far08:28
jaegerI have run into situations where the available debian packages were too old but not too many08:28
jaegereven ran into that with ubuntu 8.04 LTS recently, though08:28
enteand debian does not treat the user as if he were a stupid kid that has no clue what it's doing all the time08:28
jaegerI feel like it does at times08:29
jaegerbut I'm able to work around that without much trouble08:29
entefar less than ubuntu08:29
jaegerI don't feel that way but to each his own08:29
entewell, it makes me rather unproductive08:29
jaegerThere have been very few times when I've had to fight with it08:30
thrice`ente, I use slackware for my little home server, as it's super stable and easy to maintain08:32
thrice`the only other hardware I own is the laptop, which is is crux08:32
entethrice`: how about upgrades?08:32
thrice`slackware releases from 6 years ago or something are still getting updates for security08:32
Zabaslackware always seemed too messy for my liking08:34
Zabastarting with the init scripts, and slackbuilds...08:34
thrice`it can be, yes.  it was the first distro I used, so I guess i'm used to it08:34
ZabaI mean, seriously, it's not hard to do a _simple_ init script system that's not a bloody mess.08:35
Zabalikewise, it's not hard to introduce a bit of infrastructure into package building to reduce clutter and boilerplate.08:35
thrice`I think there's a bit of, "this is how i've always done it" mentallity there :>  he's not one to change just for change-sake08:36
jaegermany users are the same way08:36
Zabathat's not changing for the sake of change, that's changing for the sake of having to write less and copypasta none.08:37
Zabawhich is also known as "common sense"08:37
entewe could ask him?08:37
jaegerbut common sense is rarely ever either :)08:38
teK_so it should be called uncommon sense, then?08:38
thrice`you'd think08:38
jaegerMight be interesting to hear why he's continued to do it that way08:45
jaegerAnyone running the Mac OS X version of VirtualBox?08:53
linopolusthe hal port wants to chown a file with haldaemon:haldaemon but neither the user nor the group exists08:53
thrice`linopolus, use the pre/post install scripts ?08:54
jaegerit's in pre-install in hal's case08:54
thrice`jaeger, my girlfriend does at home, but I don't have access to it currently08:54
linopolusoh. :D08:54
jaegerthrice`: if you happen to think of it sometime, would you check if the "check for updates" function works there?08:54
thrice`you can configure prt-get to always run these if youw ant, in /etc/prt-get.conf08:54
jaegerthrice`: I've got 3.1.8 on my macbook pro and it tells me that I'm running the latest, even though I know there's a 3.2.008:55
thrice`jaeger, sure :>  she depended on it for school, so once I had it working properly, I was pretty nervous to attempt updating it08:55
jaegerfair enough08:55
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entecommon nonsense09:37
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jaegerthrice`: ah, I'm guessing now that it's intentional after a bit of research... since 3.2.0 is now Oracle VM VirtualBox09:44
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llanero09:07 <Zaba> that's not changing for the sake of change, that's changing for the sake of having to write less and copypasta none.11:05
llanero09:07 <Zaba> which is also known as "common sense"11:05
llaneroZaba: +1 so hard patrick is reduced to tears11:05
ente+1 the same amount11:06
ente:>11:06
entethe initscripts do not seem the least bit like KISS to me11:06
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enteI think slackware is uglier than arch12:03
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frinnstslackware is nice12:19
RotwangI think slack is uglier than anything12:19
frinnstnever used arch12:19
Rotwangis anyone familiar with basic termodynamics?12:19
RotwangI need some help12:19
frinnstyes, enough to keep away from it12:19
frinnst:)12:19
thrice`no, but I did study something close called "thermodynamics" once12:19
Rotwang-__-12:20
Rotwangso i'll go to my question12:20
Rotwangk?12:20
thrice`maybe :>  it was a while ago12:20
Rotwangwe have equal quantities of gas (lets say oxygen 02) in 300K in normal pressure12:21
Rotwangnow we compress it to the pressure raises three times12:21
Rotwangone portion of gas is compressed adiabatic and one isotermic12:22
Rotwangwhat is the temperatura after compression12:22
Rotwang?12:22
Rotwangtemperature*12:22
Rotwangs/to/the12:22
Rotwangthe numbers I come up with are quite high :c12:23
Rotwang~ 800K for isotermic and ~5700 for adiabatic12:23
Rotwangcame*12:23
thrice`mm, can't you use "P*V=n*R*T"  ?12:23
Rotwangthrice`: I do12:23
thrice`oh :>12:23
Rotwangbut im somehow dissatisfied with number I come up with12:24
RotwangI'm probably doing mistake somewhere12:24
thrice`I don't think it's more complicated than that12:25
Rotwangyes I think so too12:33
Rotwangbut still numbers I come with are crazy [;12:33
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jaegerRotwang: regarding your nfs question - if you can use opensolaris for the server, zfs snapshots work well12:53
jaegerotherwise an rsync snapshot setup or something could work well12:53
Rotwangthanks12:54
RotwangI'm not an admin of that nfs server though [;12:54
jaegerah12:55
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linopolusrtorrent-extended(with some patches including colors) now available :)14:17
linopolus(copypasted from the aur PKGBUILD)14:17
tadzikho ho14:17
thrice`eew, formatting14:20
thrice`and "../" for patching should probably be $SRC/14:20
linopolusI've seen it this way in some Pkgfiles in opt. Didn't found any docs *hide*14:21
entealways use $SRC and $PKG where possible :P14:22
enteI actually tend to copy many of my Pkgfiles from arch :D14:22
thrice`what if the work directory is located some place funny? :)14:23
linopolusI didn't even know that I can use $SRC :)14:23
entethrice`: "$SRC"?14:24
thrice`ok, I just re-synced it, and 'wtf??'14:24
linopolusbtw. should I use /usr/man or /usr/share/man?14:24
entehm?14:24
entelinopolus: /usr/man14:24
thrice`linopolus, I hope those commands asking for user input is a joke? ;p14:25
enteoh, yuck14:26
enteI remember this one14:26
entethat was one of the most fucked up PKGBUILDs I've seem on arch14:26
entelinopolus: people on CRUX are generally capable of using # if they don't want a certain patch14:26
thrice`just call the patches you want; people on crux are smart enough to comment things14:26
enteunlike arch users who obviously need menus like ubuntu14:27
linopolusok :D14:27
linopolussry :)14:27
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linopolusI was removing the menu already, but then thought: No, It could be confusing :D14:28
linopolusShould I leave the descriptions as comment?14:29
thrice`yes14:30
linopolusnow better?14:34
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thrice`http://www.slackadelic.com/~thrice/Pkgfile  is cleaner formatting :)14:40
frinnsthttp://lkml.org/lkml/2010/4/1/12814:40
thrice`linopolus, yeah, looks nice :)14:41
linopolus░█▀▀ ░█▀█ ░█ ░█▀▀ ░░█▀▀ ░█▀█ ░█ ░█ ░░░14:42
linopolus░█▀▀ ░█▀▀ ░█ ░█ ░░░░█▀▀ ░█▀█ ░█ ░█ ░░░14:42
linopolus░▀▀▀ ░▀ ░░░▀ ░▀▀▀ ░░▀ ░░░▀░▀ ░▀ ░▀▀▀ ░14:42
linopolus@ link14:42
frinnstthanks for pasting crap in the channel14:42
thrice`I deleted it linopolus, after looking at yours14:43
thrice`linopolus, you could also, since there are SO many patches, just wrap it14:44
jse"I wanna overclock my rig by echoing strings to /proc/cpuinfo!"14:44
linopolusthrice`: I meant the link by frinnst14:44
thrice`'for patch in $SRC/*.patch; do patch blahblah14:44
thrice`oh :>14:45
linopolusno speed improvement, and no simplicity improvement, and only marginal size improvement14:45
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claretilman:hi, no progress on intel machine except I have been reading mailinglist intel-gfx14:48
clareand now am trying to help one who wants to run fortran on 64bit intel machine14:48
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linopolusand for the ../$SRC on patching: grep patch /usr/ports/**/Pkgfile|grep -v '$SRC' returns for example /usr/ports/opt/rcs/Pkgfile:    patch -p1 < ../$name-$version.patch14:50
linopolusbut I see $SRC is better :)14:50
thrice`mm, it should be possible to define the PKGMK_WORK_DIR to not be $pwd, and have that fail, right?  or am I thinking incorrectly14:51
thrice`no, I guess the patches will be copied over14:51
linopolusthe patches are copied in workdir/src or something, and you start there. so both should be fine14:52
linopolus↑ my guess14:52
thrice`how do you like crux so far, out of curiosity? :)14:53
linopolusyes :)14:58
linopolusthe only crux of crux is that there aren't any binary packages. It's a long time to compile anything with my P4.14:59
linopolusBut the nights are long :D15:00
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jsedistcc and a compiler farm is one option.15:16
linopolusdistcc is on my todo list(so say: in my head ^^), lol @ compiler farm :D15:18
linopolusMine is the best PC in house :D15:18
linopolusno wait15:19
linopolusdistcc was the distributed c compiler15:19
linopolusI meant this cache15:19
tilmanccache15:19
linopolusyes15:19
linopolusall this Cs…15:19
linopoluss/this/these/15:23
linopolusenglish is not my favourite :(15:23
treachlinopolus, the man always being besides himself. :>15:23
treachthe cc-man.: :>15:23
jseCC's to rule them all... eventually. maybe.15:34
llanerolinopolus: patch /usr/ports/**/Pkgfile # no15:41
llaneroargmax15:41
llaneroand that requires shopt -s globstar15:41
linopolus?15:42
llanerolinopolus: spoon fed: http://www.in-ulm.de/~mascheck/various/argmax/; man bash /globstar15:42
llanerocant do /dir/**/file without shopt -s globstar15:43
linopolus1. I did not patch the files, just grep through them, 2. setopt extended_glob is set15:43
linopolus3. zsh >>> bash15:43
llaneroit still can hit arg max...15:43
linopolusthat doesn't interest me, cause I was just searching how patches are applied :D15:44
thrice`yes, assuming someone uses bash is quite rude :p15:44
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llanerojust to be clear15:44
linopolus^^15:44
llanerois this supposed to go on a pkgfile15:44
linopolusI know what I'm doing. most times…15:44
linopolusno15:44
linopolusi was just lokking up how to apply patches in Pkgfiles -.-15:45
linopolusgn815:45
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prologicWhere is this Justin fellow ? :)16:15
prologicI wanna have a speak with him :)16:15
* prologic wonders how long he's been ugins CRUX for now16:15
prologicgaw16:15
prologicgawd*16:15
treach"God"16:18
prologic:)16:18
prologicI believe i started using CRUX about a year before Per Liden announced he was leaving the project16:18
prologicwas that version 2.0 ?16:18
frinnsti think i started with 2.316:30
frinnstor whatever version used the old devfs thing16:30
frinnsti remember using old static devicenodes instead :)16:30
thrice`I remember doing 2.2 with jaegers guide to hack udev in mid-install16:31
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prologicheh16:50
prologiccan't believe I've been using crux longer than you some of you guys :)16:50
thrice`I converted once I learned how to compile a kernel :)16:51
prologic:)16:51
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