IRC Logs for #crux Monday, 2010-08-30

pitillogood morning01:05
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RotwangI cant forward X01:38
Rotwanga crux.01:39
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RotwangI can't get ssh X forwarding to work02:09
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cruxbot[opt.git/2.6]: foomatic-filters: update to 4.0.503:10
cruxbot[opt.git/2.6]: lvm2: update to 2.02.7303:10
cruxbot[opt.git/2.6]: ocaml: update to 3.12.003:10
cruxbot[opt.git/2.6]: transmission: update to 2.0403:10
cruxbot[opt.git/2.6]: transmission-gtk: update to 2.0403:10
cruxbot[opt.git/2.6]: unison: fix build with ocaml 3.1203:10
cruxbot[opt.git/2.7]: foomatic-filters: update to 4.0.503:11
cruxbot[opt.git/2.7]: lvm2: update to 2.02.7303:11
cruxbot[opt.git/2.7]: ocaml: update to 3.12.003:11
cruxbot[opt.git/2.7]: transmission: update to 2.0403:11
cruxbot[opt.git/2.7]: transmission-gtk: update to 2.0403:11
cruxbot[opt.git/2.7]: unison: fix build with ocaml 3.1203:11
cruxbot[opt.git/2.7]: Merge branch '2.6' into 2.703:11
cruxbot[core.git/2.6]: db: don't try to download the patches from the oracle website.03:16
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cruxbot[opt.git/2.6]: xterm: updated to 26206:37
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cruxbot[opt.git/2.6]: sharutils: updated to 4.1006:40
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Rotwangany latex wizardz around?06:42
tilmandangerous meta question detected!06:42
Rotwangi usepackaged indentfirs, but my paragraphs arent indented!06:42
RotwangIm using letter format06:42
tilmani thought letter was an us-specific thing06:42
tilmanand everyone else (including poland :p) used a406:43
Rotwangok [;06:44
RotwangI'm writing cover letter for my job application06:44
tilmanokay, then you really should switch to a406:45
tilmanotherwise you might get into trouble when printing it06:45
tilmanRotwang: i'd just use scrlttr2 and use their defaults... though it might be that scrlltr2 is tuned for german 'standards'06:46
Rotwangok, will try that06:54
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Rotwangg-brief and sctrrrttttl210:33
Rotwangaren't suitable for polish cover letters :\10:33
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tilmanoh :(10:34
RotwangIn my quest for a better job I think crux may help me a bit10:46
Rotwangtoo bad not many people know what crux is ;[10:48
tilmanjust write something like "... contribute to the crux linux distribution in my spare time"10:48
thrice`or use flashy buzz words, like advanced, enterprise, etc10:48
tilmanin a team of international unix experts :D10:49
thrice`maybe cloud too10:49
tilmanso they realize you're improving your english skills as a side effect10:49
tilmanresp that your english is good enough to do this kind of collaboration10:49
tilmanthrice`: does mentioning XML do the trick still? or is that oooold? :)10:49
thrice`lol - not sure, I'm not in the IT field (maybe for this very reason :p )10:51
Rotwangshould I w rite that I "know XML"10:52
tilmanno, because he doesn't know what's hip and what's not10:52
tilmanplease god no10:52
tilmanwell, depends on the kind of job you're applying for10:52
Rotwanghow is called space between beginning of the paper and first text?10:57
enteRotwang: what kind of job are you looking for?10:58
Rotwangente: some kind of linux administration10:59
RotwangI doesn't have much experience though [:11:00
enteexperience with what? ubuntu? :D11:00
tilmanRotwang: something-margin?11:01
tilmantop margin?11:01
Rotwangente: <__<11:01
enteRotwang: taking care of ubuntu systems is harder than taking care of CRUX systems, because ubuntu keeps telling you that you're braindead and stabs you in the back if you want to change something :)11:02
Rotwangente: I know11:03
enteso ubuntu needs more experience than crux11:03
RotwangI'm not really convinced if it does ;D11:07
cruxbot[opt.git/2.7]: ruby: update to 1.9.2-p011:07
cruxbot[opt.git/2.7]: ruby-doc: update to 1.9.2-p011:07
Rotwanganyway, writing letter in latex really can suck life out of you11:09
tilmanwriting the same shit in openoffice is worse11:11
tilmanalso, the documents you will generate with latex look soooo great compared to openoffice crap ;p11:13
enteI'd write the letter on my typewriter :P11:15
enteyou can use troff or ConTeXt instead of LaTeX :P11:16
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teK_considered using iTeX *sound of a bell*?11:35
jaegerRotwang: I did my calculus homework in LaTeX in college11:36
jaegertalk about sucking11:36
jaegerbut my professors loved it11:36
enteteK_: haha11:36
tilmancalculus sucks, yes11:37
enteteK_: only the raw XML backend :P11:37
enteseriously, I love knuth11:37
entehmmm... calculus11:37
teK_he's crazy11:38
teK_I always found latex to be a bit strange. Maybe this changes after *some* usage11:38
jaegerente: I find that ubuntu generally doesn't get in my way, running it on a lot of servers at work11:45
teK_tilman: now I get the footprint mismatch, too11:55
entejaeger: I think they care mostly about the desktop packages, and it ususally gets in my way there...11:57
jaegerente: ah, fair enough11:57
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enteI guess most of the server packages are just stolen from debian and rebranded ubuntu11:57
jaegerpossibly, or at least built without the desktop deps11:57
jaegerin most cases11:58
teK_maybe someone from core cares:
jueteK_: missing a group mlocate?12:03
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dum8d0gHello, I would like to ask about portdb.12:05
Rotwangdum8d0g: hi12:05
dum8d0gImagine following situation - I have repo. I want to have some package xyz. I don't have package xyz neither in core/opt/contrib nor in my own repo.12:06
dum8d0gBut somebody has that desired xyz port in his repo. What is the right way to do?12:06
dum8d0ga) add his repo to my system, even if I don't trust his repo12:07
dum8d0gb) copy his port into my own repo, leaving 'Packager' line unchanged12:07
dum8d0gc) copy hist port into my own repo while changing 'Packager' line to me12:08
enteI have my own repo (wzff) and a local repo (local)12:08
enteand I do stuff nobody is interested in in the local one12:09
enteduplicating ports should be avoided, I guess12:09
dum8d0gente: like changing configure flags?12:09
dum8d0gI also think that duplicating ports isn't the right way to go, but it has some benefits.12:10
dum8d0gFor example, since you have full control over freshly gained port, you can update it to the newer version.12:10
entethere's no way to keep track of the features your special version of "foo" does compared to the "foo" in the foreign repo12:10
enteyou can write the maintainer a mail if it's outdated, they usually appreciate that12:11
Rotwangdum8d0g: also you are supposed to change maintainer line not packager12:11
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dum8d0gRotwang: well, that is part of my question too. What purpose have 'Maintainer' and 'Packager' lines?12:12
entepackager is the person who initially wrote the port, maintainer is the person who bumps the version variable, right?12:12
frinnst"Packager" is just a tribute :)12:12
dum8d0gSo, I should never modify 'Packager' line. Only create.12:12
dum8d0gfrinnst: that solves my issue with forgoten credits12:13
frinnstpretty much, ofcourse its not "required" but its usually a nice thing to do12:13
dum8d0gRelated question - under what license ports are?12:13
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frinnsti dont think anybody has bothered licensing a "Pkgfile" :)12:14
dum8d0gfrinnst: There are even licenses on licenses. I assume, there is some 'default' license for ports.12:14
frinnsti dont think anybody has bothered12:15
frinnstmaybe we should start hiring lawyers :>12:15
enteyes, I need someone to defend my right as port writer12:15
dum8d0gI am little in doubt when changing someones port, because I don't know if he would like it or not.12:16
entesomeone could use it to package software for another distro :O12:16
frinnstteh horror!12:16
dum8d0gyes, the evil archlinux packagers could steal crux port db!12:16
dum8d0g(didn't I twisted that?)12:16
entein fact, I usually get my uhm... "inspiration" from arch PKGBUILDs :P12:17
Rotwangente: I do it rarely12:17
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enteRotwang: it's useful to find how they patch things to make them work... I usually don't bother looking if ./configure; make; make install DESTDIR=$PKG works12:18
RotwangIts easy to spot sometimes when someone takes "inspiration" from pkgbuilds12:18
dum8d0gente: I thought about compiler PKGBUILD->Pkgfile12:18
Rotwanglike || return 112:18
enteI purge things like that12:18
enteI dislike ugly ports.12:18
thrice`i've looked at alot of arch builds that were quite nasty12:19
enteme too12:19
dum8d0gthat is mainly cause by braindead developer techniques12:19
thrice`i'm quite scared to try arch as a result :>12:19
dum8d0ghave you seen xmlrpc-c for example?12:19
entethrice`: in fact, most code looks ugly too, but it works12:19
entethrice`: same goes for arch I guess12:20
dum8d0gthose idiots can't even make a proper release12:20
dum8d0ganyway, given I would like to dedup ports I have control over, what should I do?12:21
dum8d0gtry to cooperate with related maintainers?12:21
entexmlrpc already sounds broken by design, sorry :P12:21
entedum8d0g: yes12:21
dum8d0gente: there are to many things broken by design.12:22
entethis is too damn true :(12:22
dum8d0gente: If you stay away from thing just because they are too ugly to handle, you will end up in middle of universe angry to point of negative temperature12:23
enteI try to avoid them where possible12:24
entefor instance, I don't have hal and dbus since I started to use CRUX12:24
enteand no policy, console, pol and whateverkit12:25
dum8d0gente: old unix days are gone. Get along with that.12:25
entedum8d0g: so? we swap simplicity for total crap that doesn't even work?12:25
dum8d0gente: what is simple about linux anyway?12:25
* dum8d0g like those flames..12:25
entewell, in fact many parts of linux are still quite simple12:26
dum8d0gAlright, back to the subject. How and when should I try to push my ports into contrib/opt?12:27
Rotwangdum8d0g: you cant12:27
dum8d0gyou mean, there is no spoon?12:28
entedum8d0g: why do you want to force people to use ports with configure options that only make sense to you? :P12:28
dum8d0gente: I do not talk about changed configure flags12:29
dum8d0gente: I talk about new ports12:29
enteah.. well, make your own repository and if someone of the contrib/opt people thinks it's important enough to go there, they adapt it?12:30
dum8d0gSo, there is general interest to have larger contrib?12:30
enterun your ports collection for a while and you will be asked if you want to become a contrib maintainer or something like that12:31
dum8d0gOr it is more like designed to be small as possible in order to avoid orphaned ports?12:31
entecrux is not exactly the distro with the biggest manpower I guess :/12:31
littleomardum8d0g: what is that you really want?12:32
enteworld domination :D12:32
dum8d0gente: no, that will wait12:32
dum8d0glittleomar: I think to get some new ports into contrib, maintain them and give a chance to others to overtake those ports of mine.12:33
dum8d0gIt is not like I WANT. More like I maybe would secretly wish for.12:34
juedum8d0g: have a look at ->
dum8d0gYes, I read that.12:35
littleomardum8d0g: which stage are you at?12:36
dum8d0glittleomar: I would say pre-newbie?12:36
dum8d0galpha version12:36
dum8d0gAlright, I installed CRUX this weekend.12:37
littleomarthen you probably have 6 months left until your stuff is in contrib12:37
littleomaryay! :-)12:37
dum8d0gYou mean, this community is really so dynamic?12:37
thrice`i'm nto sure a giant contrib repo is desired.  isn't that the rumor, that arch linux's AUR is full of mostly crap as a result?12:37
littleomardum8d0g: my guess is "protection from script short-lived script-kids".. but hey, I don't know.12:38
Rotwangthrice`: ++12:38
dum8d0gthrice`: 'full of mostly crap' is called evolution12:38
entefunny, most of the AUR stuff actually works12:39
dum8d0gthrice`: without the crap, you couldn't tell what is good.12:39
enteI've seen a few ridiculous things though12:39
littleomardum8d0g: just trying to help mate12:39
dum8d0gSince 'good' must have 'bad' to be known.12:39
entedum8d0g: we have plenty of inspiration elsewhere, we don't need to put the crap into CRUX to have examples how not to do it :P12:40
dum8d0gente: ;)12:40
littleomardum8d0g: to be honest, if you just installed CRUX and you want to change stuff right away... you might be looking at the wrong distro to begin with12:40
littleomarnot saying that to be mean or anything12:41
dum8d0glittleomar: I do not want change things. Just trying to see what is at horizont.12:42
dum8d0glittleomar: I really like CRUX since first boot.12:42
littleomardum8d0g: ok12:42
dum8d0glittleomar: And the community is awesome.12:42
entethe community is totally AWESOME12:42
enteexcept of me, I'm the dick. you wouldn't spot the awesomeness otherwise :D12:42
littleomarI'm the scarecrow12:43
teK_jue: i have slocate. thanks12:43
cruxbot[opt.git/2.6]: gutenprint: update to 5.2.612:47
cruxbot[opt.git/2.6]: python: update to 2.6.612:47
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dum8d0gOh, another question I wanted to ask. Since port-dedup is wanted, what do you in case, that somebody has your desired port?12:52
dum8d0g*do you do12:53
ente"desired port"?12:53
dum8d0gente: you want package XYZ. Is in someones repo. What do usualy do?12:54
frinnstuse mpup12:54
dum8d0g*do you usualy do12:54
entedum8d0g: why do you want to package something that's already packaged?12:54
frinnstsyncs specific packages from various repos into one local repo12:54
entedum8d0g: packaging is not a competition or something12:54
enteor did I get that wrong?12:55
dum8d0gente: I dont mean 'want to package', but 'get package'12:55
frinnstdum8d0g: try mpup12:56
frinnstrsync -aqz mpup12:56
frinnstjust cut & paste :)12:56
dum8d0gyou mean copy & paste12:56
dum8d0gIf I would cut that, nobody could see it anymore12:56
entefrinnst: thanks for mpup, I used to do it by hand :)12:57
cruxbot[opt.git/2.7]: xterm: updated to 26212:59
cruxbot[opt.git/2.7]: sharutils: updated to 4.1012:59
cruxbot[opt.git/2.7]: gutenprint: update to 5.2.612:59
cruxbot[opt.git/2.7]: python: update to 2.6.612:59
cruxbot[opt.git/2.7]: Merge branch '2.6' into 2.712:59
frinnsthmm, python 2.6.6 in 2.7? :)13:00
dum8d0gmpup seem as nice answer to my question. thanks13:01
juehmm, I've resolved the merge conflict, but dunno what happens there ...13:02
frinnststupid sepen, he should put it in contrib already, or even opt :)13:02
dum8d0gfunny that first thing in mpup meta will be mpup itself.13:02
teK_it makes sense :)13:02
teK_imho mpup should be part of prt-get :-)13:02
teK_+ a CLI search tool for the portdb13:03
enteor at least a dsearch for the online portdb13:03
dum8d0gmeh, the port environment is big enough ATM13:03
juefrinnst: it's a wrong message, the port is still at 2.713:03
dum8d0ggod, I love this distribution13:06
frinnstok, wierd13:06
dum8d0gI work with ubuntu at my job. Crux is very nice refresh to me.13:07
frinnstyep, if you dont mind tinkering a bit, its pretty perfect13:15
frinnstbtw, why are nobody pushing in contrib/2.7?13:18
dum8d0gThat tinkering is the best part. In Ubuntu, if anything breaks, you can just walk away and cry. That is pretty much only supported solution.13:18
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enteyou can reinstall :P13:24
teK_that was the windows-way13:24
enteah, ubuntu just reboots13:24
enteteK_: I thought ubuntu is copying windows wherever possible13:25
enteI wonder when people will finally say that linux does not suck13:25
enteI guess it's the day when they port the BSOD to linux13:26
teK_windows is not purple :>13:26
enteeven the brown was better than the purple :-(13:26
dum8d0gI found a port, where maintainer/packager does:13:31
dum8d0gsed -i -e 's|#!/usr/bin/env python|#!/usr/bin/python|' ..13:31
dum8d0gI think it is stupid. What do you think?13:32
entewhy is it stupid?13:32
dum8d0gWhy does he modify the source?13:32
dum8d0gIt works anyway.13:32
RotwangI find it unnecessery13:32
enteI agree with Rotwang, it's unnecessary but not stupid13:32
dum8d0gAnd more, the original hashbang line is actually better13:32
dum8d0gyour arguments are unbreakable13:33
entewhy is it better?13:33
enteCRUX has python in /usr/bin/python13:34
entehe packages it for this particular distribution, so it works exactly as well as the original thing13:34
dum8d0gTo use 'env' is good practice I think.13:34
entewhich is why it's unnecessary13:34
entewe're not packaging for anything but CRUX13:34
teK_we are not pkgsrc :>13:35
dum8d0gYes, but what modify what works by default?13:35
enteas I said, unnecessary13:35
dum8d0gI thought that patching should avoided if possible13:35
enteis it in core/opt/contrib/xorg?13:35
entesee? :P13:36
entethere's a reason why it's not there13:37
teK_sane reasoning > policies13:37
dum8d0gI will mail him anyway.13:38
dum8d0gI couldn't get good sleep if I didn't13:38
teK_I don't even look at a Pkgfile if it's result works for me[tm]13:38
dum8d0gand wtf is up2date_url ?13:39
dum8d0gdid I miss something?13:39
teK_romster cooks his own soup as we say in germany :p13:40
dum8d0gwe would say 'he plays on his own sandbox' in czech ;-)13:42
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dum8d0gWhat was that with sepen and mpup? ;-)13:49
frinnst"stupid sepen, he should put it in contrib already, or even opt :)"13:49
frinnstwrt mpup btw13:49
sepenhmm, which place would be better, opt or contrib?13:53
frinnstpeople wont notice it in contrib13:53
sepenyep, I prefer opt too13:53
teK_it's rock solid, too13:54
sepenif nobody disagrees13:54
frinnstits too awesome to fade into contrib-oblivion13:54
teK_It'd be interesting to see how many people do NOT use contrib13:54
sepenok I'll do, I'm using mpup-contrib ;D13:54
enteyes, should be in opt13:54
sepenand another thing, what do you think about flash plugin's stuff?13:56
frinnstmm, flash-player-plugin or something similar is probably better suited13:58
dum8d0gThe 'flashplugin' seems good.13:58
dum8d0gIf it was up to me, I would remove flash from repositories for good.13:59
dum8d0gThat thing should by banned by law.13:59
sepenflash-player-plugin is used on some many distros too13:59
frinnsti tried the firefox-beta with webm a while back.. laughably slow on my system.. 1-2 fps with youtube videos14:00
sepenthe fact is that I tested the path /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins with google-chrome and autodetected it14:00
sepenthis path seems more portable between browsers14:01
dum8d0gCould please somebody try to build opt/ruby?14:02
dum8d0gNeed to confirm gcc bug.14:02
frinnstgcc bug?14:04
dum8d0gthe -O{>0} seems to make something inline and it causes problem14:05
frinnst1.9.2-p0 built fine14:05
frinnstbut im on 2.714:05
frinnstgcc (CRUX) 4.5.114:05
enteruby does stupid inline asm things anyway14:05
entesaw that once, it actually makes it slower and is less portable :-D14:06
entethey look if they are compiling for x86, and have the same thing written in C if not14:07
dum8d0git is called 'agressive programing techniques'14:07
dum8d0gyou program like crazy and it then release furiously14:07
cruxbot[opt.git/2.6]: mpup: initial import14:09
dum8d0gok, ruby compiles fine now.14:09
dum8d0gsepen: thanks :-)14:10
dum8d0gI can remove mpup from mpup now.14:10
sepenfixes, bugs and reports are welcome too14:10
dum8d0gnice, I trimmed my repo by half14:21
enteis it in the portdb?14:22
dum8d0gIt should show up14:25
dum8d0gon the website in less than 24 hours.14:25
dum8d0gDate: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 22:40:48 +020014:25
dum8d0gI guess it has still 30 minutes14:25
dum8d0gshould be named 'd8g'14:25
dum8d0goh, 70 minutes left14:26
tilmanfound a typo in the db control file :(14:31
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luxhis that utf8{14:48
teK_unicode i guess14:48
teK_ ;-)14:48
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enteis there a unicode character for "I feel really shitty, fuck off everybody"?15:17
enteif IRC would support unicode as nicks, I guess that would be my nick :-(15:17
tadzikthat's called /part15:17
teK_that must be the windows logo :\15:17
entewindows does not have unicode long enough ;)15:18
teK_ente: so I hope you will feel better anytime soon15:18
enteI'm constantly pushed in the direction that I have to decide what I'm going to do for the rest of my life, until I fall right into the grave15:19
entethat's not a motivating thought, maybe I should rearrange the way I think15:20
teK_there's a nice proverb:15:20
teK_life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you react to it15:20
teK_combine it with:15:20
teK_life's a bitch so you better learn to fuck it15:20
teK_and you're just fine15:20
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dum8d0gsepen: I updated your 'contrib/qiv', do you wanna patch?16:05
dum8d0g(I assume that 'Maintainer: Jose V Beneyto, sepen at users dot sourceforge dot net' = sepen)16:06
teK_your assumption is correct16:06
pitillodum8d0g: you can notify the maintainer from the bug tracker webpage too (assigning the ticket to the maintainer)16:12
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dum8d0gpitillo: yes, I read that in faq. But since he is here (maybe).16:13
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pitillodum8d0g: ok, I didn't know wether you you knew that way too :)16:16
Rotwangdum8d0g: irc is very informal16:16
dum8d0gpitillo: Should bugtracker be used for distrib to? I don't see category for that when submiting new issue.16:16
Rotwangso if you have some issue with port bug tracker is the best imo16:16
pitillohard to keep track if the client is directly closed, it's good to keep track in the mail too16:17
Rotwangdum8d0g: yes, there is contrib section in flyspray16:17
pitillodum8d0g: yes, there is a project for contrib too16:18
dum8d0gI see only 'ports - core/opt/xorg'16:19
teK_there's a dropdown menu16:19
dum8d0g(and few irrelevant choices)16:19
teK_upper left16:19
pitillodum8d0g: switch to crux-contrib project16:19
dum8d0gthat is what I call 'Seemless UI'16:20
dum8d0gI wasn't aware of that dropdown16:20
Rotwangdoes '8' in your nick stand for 'B'16:25
Rotwang? dum8d0g16:25
teK_stand was actually correct ;)16:26
dum8d0gI have got round 640! :)16:29
teK_who tested my zsh completion file?16:30
teK_rehabplug or frinnst? don't remember16:30
tadzik what completion file?16:31
tadzikI remember asking for it some time ago16:31
teK_for prt-get16:31
teK_does it work?16:31
tadzikI don't remember getting it16:31
tadzikI have no crux now :( My thinkpad is on warranty16:32
tadzikThinkpad! On warranty! O tempora, O mores!16:33
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