IRC Logs for #crux Wednesday, 2010-09-15

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lowellgrippoHi y'all. I have a friend at Linuxforums who wants to run 2.7 when it comes out in 64-bit. He is interested in how 64-bit ports is managed and I didn't know what to tell him on that. Can someone fill me in so I can tell him?00:37
pitillogood morning00:59
pitillolowellgrippo: like they work in crux but with a port overlay for 64b (some of them need some love)01:05
jayd512Hi all... I know the guy that lowellgrippo is talking about... Are you saying that pretty much averything can run 64-bit?02:04
pitillojayd512: no, I just tried to explain how crux-64b manage its ports, it uses some collections overlays for some ports (you can check the webpage, in the development secion, to verify some x86_64b collections) I really have any kind of experience with crux 64b (I don't know which is the status really, but sure someone here can tell you about how things are going with it)02:07
pitillos/I really have/I really haven't02:09
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jayd512Thanks..! I appreciate the explanation. I was just trying to double-check, and you cleared it up for me :)03:00
tilmanthere's a mesa 7.8.3 rc available, if anyone wants to help testing ;)03:06
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pitillojayd512: you are welcome. May be someone else can explain it better (and give more info about its status)03:23
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tadzikuhm, someone "updated" Perl from 5.12.1 to 5.10.1 :(04:17
sepenyou're talking about 2.7 which is not official yet04:22
tadzikyes, I'm talking about 2.7 which is not official yet04:22
tadzikthe last commit on git shows 5.12.2 yet04:23
tadziksepen: also, seems like p5-gtk2 needs Pango now04:24
sepentadzik, in 2.7?04:29
tadziksepen: p5-gtk2 1.222, yes, in 2.704:29
sepenalso in 2.6, please read:;a=commit;h=f3bc46ba00bddebc1386718baf95080962b57eff04:30
tadzikbah, update does not install new deps04:30
tadzikmy bad04:30
sepenI fixed it a month ago or so04:30
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frinnstbtw sepen, your script worked with the x86_64 iso. tried another stick and it just worked. guess something was b0rked with the other one05:10
frinnstso dont worry about it :)05:10
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Rotwangcookie for a person who will enlighten me why ping cannot be executed as a normal user?08:49
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pitilloRotwang: ping setuid08:50
sepenRotwang, the 's' bit maybe? -rwsr-xr-x 1 root root 31K Dec 10  2008 /bin/ping08:50
enteRotwang: it needs raw socket capabilities08:51
enteRotwang: it can be executed as user if you use capabilities08:51
ente drepper has written something about it08:51
teK_yeah :)08:52
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entefirst time I start emacs ;P11:41
mhiwhy? :)11:42
aubicnow that I think about it, I never ever started emacs :D11:43
entemhi: because my uni has it installed and I'm bored ;)11:43
enteand I'm always open for change, maybe emacs isn't that bad after all11:43
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entemhi: even though suckless people say so :P11:45
enteif you listen to them, you end up with ed11:45
entetried sup?11:45
mhiyea, or acme :P11:45
enteor sam11:45
mhiwell, not yet :)11:46
mhistill reading about ELF at the moment11:46
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mhiI'm about to install CRUX on my laptop and use it as my main system again.11:56
mhitilman: Does CRUX need any help ATM?11:57
enteI'd help too11:58
entebefore uni absorbs my brain entirely11:58
tilmanyes, we are in dire need of port maintainers12:01
mhiany certain ports?12:02
tilmanmmh, check the OrphanedPorts wiki page12:02
tilmannot sure it's up to date though12:02
mhithere are some ports I'd care about12:04
enteHow would that work?12:06
tilmanideally you'd sign up for the contrib collection12:07
* thrice` wonders what would happen if opt and contrib were to merge12:07
enteI wouldn't do that12:07
enteI mean, I think it's a bad idea to merge opt and contrib12:08
thrice`really? :>12:09
enteon the other hand, as probably 90% of CRUX people enable contrib anyway (we should make stats about that, maybe some perlscript on the rsyncd logs?)12:13
entebut I think opt shouldn't get too big12:14
thrice`I guess I don't see the difference between the two repos any more.  it would even solve some problems of other repos (gnome, xfce, kde) needing stuff from contrib12:16
entethey are semiofficial too, right?12:18
entewhy can't they depend on contrib which is semiofficial then?12:18
entebut I think we already talked about it, and I forgot it12:18
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mhitilman: how stable is the RC3?12:27
mhiOr should I go for 2.6?12:27
frinnstrc3 should work just as well as final, probably12:28
mhihmm, okidoki12:28
mhiWhat's the easiest way to get the .iso on my USB pendrive? With syslinux?12:33
mhiAwesome. Thanks!12:35
tilmanmmh, i forgot to create an usb image for rc312:38
enteyou could ask the arch guys how they make their images to boot from both usb and CD12:41
entein case you already know, I'd love to hear how ;)12:41
mhimake_usbdisk isn't working for me, hmmm12:45
frinnstgot all the deps?12:45
mhiDeps aren't the problem:
mhibut that looks easy to corret, just annoying :>12:47
mhi    which --version 2>&1 >/dev/null || msgError "you need 'which' to run this script"12:49
mhiDoes your which version has longopt flags?12:49
mhiCommenting out that line was enough to get it working, BTW.12:51
mhiAnd: &>/dev/null   ==   2>&1 >/dev/null12:52
aubicI've got a 64-bit specific integer overflow in gtk on 2.7, it crashes stuff13:20
aubicanyone familiar with it?13:20
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thrice`yes; I had to steal a patch from gentoo13:31
thrice`relating to libpng14, iirc?13:32
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mhiHmm, the usbimage complains about not finding the CRUX media, during booting from the pendrive.13:34
thrice`aubic, this is what I used:
aubichmm, I already tried this one13:35
mhiDid anyone have that problem before? It executes a sh for me to correct the problem, but I can't :>13:37
Rotwangmhi: try to mount it by hand then13:38
mhiRotwang: I was a bit confused first, that it only finds /dev/sda, and not sdb, but apparently that's my pendrive, not the laptop's harddisk.13:39
Rotwangto /.tmpfs/.media13:39
Rotwangand then exit13:40
Rotwangit should go further13:40
Rotwangand boot13:40
mhiDoh, right, I tried mounting to /mnt.13:40
mhibrb :>13:40
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aubicthrice`: I was wrong, this one you showed has two more changes than the one I used, building :313:44
aubicthrice`: fixed, thanks very much for your help14:01
aubicalso, shouldn't this be in opt-x86_64?14:02
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thrice`I wonder if the patch harms 32-bit also14:02
frinnstany links to bugreports?14:03
frinnsti havent had any issues14:03
mhiHmm. Okay, next problem: After copying the files from squashfs and I try to mkfs.XXX, but my devices aren't there. Only /dev/sda, which is the pendrive itself. What to do? Is just a kernel module missing or is that some kind of udev problem?14:03
* mhi goes with the 2.6 image for now14:07
frinnstmhi: what controller are you using?14:08
cippppyxbuf in gtk2 is out in next (last) gtk2 , for compatibility with gtk314:08
mhifrinnst: it's all Intel, ICH8 family14:09
thrice`I have trouble with the usb booting too, but only with crux :/14:10
mhithrice`: in general or only with the RC?14:11
thrice`I couldn't get it to work with either 2.6 or 2.714:11
mhiThat would be bad, since this laptop has no cd drive :-P14:11
jaegermhi: can you get the output from lspci -k into a pastebin or similar?14:12
jaegeranother lenovo, heh14:13
mhi(it says Thinkpad T61, but it's a X61s)14:13
mhiyes :>14:13
jaegerThe only machines that give me trouble with the usb image are lenovos14:13
jaegerIn my case it's T400s14:13
thrice`I have an R61 ;)14:14
jaegermhi: Would you mind trying something for me? when the mount fails, try to rmmod ahci and libahci, then modprobe them again, libahci first?14:15
mhiUhm, sure. I only have this laptop here ATM, that's why I have to leave all the time.. brb :>14:17
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mhijaeger: Well, it doesn't make any difference.14:28
jaegermhi: thanks for trying it, at least. did the machine hang for a while when loading either module?14:28
mhiyup, loading ahci took like.. hmm 10-15 secs, I would say.14:28
jaegerdid you happen to check the output of dmesg when it did? I'd be willing to bet there are errors there14:29
jaegercould not identify or some such14:29
jaegerthe same happens on my T400s here14:29
mhiUhm.. no. I forgot about "Linux troubleshooting 101" :)14:31
mhiI'll check, brb!14:31
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jaegerI feel bad that he has to reboot every time14:31
jaegerholy crap, one of our users actually just asked for *smaller* monitors14:35
jaegerNever thought I'd hear that one14:35
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mhijaeger: You were right. But it isn't ahci, but 'ata4' which gives me several "failed to IDENTIFY" errors.14:41
mhiIf you need more details.. I took a photo with my phone :>14:41
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frinnsthave you run linux on it before?14:44
frinnst"ata4" is just the port, right?14:45
frinnsti know my eeepc as well as a asus p5b mb have several dummy-ports14:45
mhifrinnst: Well, this Debian is running on it :>14:45
frinnstok, thought it might be a ahci quirk not included in the kernel14:46
cipppmhi: its easy to install crux from other distro14:46
mhiHmm, I can't find the data cable to my phone. But yes, there were also entries like "ata3: dummy port" etc.14:46
thrice`fwiw, crux is the only usb stick that my thinkpad struggles with; I've loaded slackware on the same laptop via. usb, and a few live environments alright14:47
mhiMaybe I should diff my current kernel config with the one from the 2.7 image.14:49
jaegermhi: sorry, had some people in my office... ata4 is the device as the ahci driver/scsi stack label it15:00
jaegermhi: on my t400s I can work around it by turning off AHCI mode but that's just a workaround, not a fix15:01
jaegerAll the machines that have this issue seem to be thinkpads from what I'm heading15:01
jaegerI think the AHCI driver in the current kernels just has a problem with them15:01
thrice`really?  self-compiled kernels work nicely :)15:01
jaegerwhat do you mean by self-compiled?15:02
jaegeranything you built after install?15:03
jaegerThe kernel on the CD isn't anything special, no patches15:03
jaegerI wonder if some other driver conflicts with it15:03
thrice`that would be my guess15:03
thrice`I wonder if making it * instead of module would help?15:03
thrice`or, making the controllers in general compiled in?15:04
mhijaeger: Ah, I see. I'm not really keen with *HCI. Am I able to install from the usb image when booting with noahci?15:05
jaegerthrice`: worth a try, I suppose, though I doubt that makes a difference15:06
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jaegermhi: if you turn off AHCI mode in your thinkpad's BIOS it will likely work but if you're dual booting that will piss windows off pretty badly15:06
mhiI would be dual-booting CRUX/Debian :>15:07
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jaegerthrice`: booted with all the modules disabled except for generic cdrom and disk support, etc. - manually loaded libata, libahci, ahci, and no luck. It still doesn't work :(15:11
thrice`not sure :(  I've loaded debian, slackware, and a couple others via. usb on the same hardware :/15:15
jaegerHave they all used the same kernel version?15:15
thrice`no, they haven't - but compiling my own kernel which is the same version loads OK of course :>15:16
thrice`for 2.7, I couldn't get it to boot via. USB, so I loaded ubuntu on to the usb drive, loop-mounted the .iso and used pkgadd -u, and then compiled 2.6.35 in a chroot15:17
cipppthrice`: you want to try with my iso ?15:18
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jaegerhrmm, wish I knew but no idea what the problem is15:26
tilman"D-Bus in the kernel, faster!"15:31
frinnstdear god, no15:31
entelinus is arrogant enough to refuse to do that15:33
enteI'm glad he is15:33
entebut it's not a surprise people were working on this15:33
entewhat happens to linux right now is definitely to be regarded sick15:33
entein my opinion at least15:34
mhi"It is not ready for merging and has limitations, including security ones" ;x15:38
enteoh, really15:38
entethat one came unexpected15:38
entehow can dbus in kernel be unsafe? ;)15:38
tilmanhehe, see the third comment on the blog post15:43
mhiRude, but true, I guess :)15:46
tadzikso much hate, so much hate15:49
enteI don't hate, I find things retarded :p15:52
tadzikoh by the way, we were supposed to write a network manager to get rid of dbus and python :)15:54
tadzikthe fact that I didn't touch the idea for 3 months might be because I didn't really need a network manager in this time15:55
jaegerok, so the problem happens with 2.6 as well15:56
entetadzik: I do, but wicd kind of works15:57
tadzikyeah, that's probably the main reason for the lack of motivation :)15:58
enteand I'm at university for 9h each day15:58
tadzikthough, to make wicd work on python 2.7 I had to patch... python15:58
enteafter that, I fall into my bed and sleep15:58
tadzikwhich is kinda wrong15:58
tadziktrue story15:58
mhijaeger: :|15:59
tadziknot to mention I did it accidentally, I thought I was editing wicd source :P15:59
tadzikente: and they do nothing about this16:00
enteprojects hosted on lauchpad...16:01
tadzikhookers where are they hosted, for me they can host it even on bittorrent, just I'd like them to work and have critical bugs resolved in less than 3 months16:04
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tadzikbtw, something's still wrong with my Perl on 2.716:34
ente is that really all of them?16:38
frinnsthey, i filed that bug16:42
frinnststill nothing?16:42
thrice`I don't think wicd is too maintained these days :(16:43
tadzikyay motivation16:43
mhiente: maybe even less; don't think all of them are active ATM16:45
entetadzik: In fact, I'd be glad to write anything but java16:53
thrice`I liked wicd's curses interface :>16:53
enteso, as soon as I get some free time, I'll help you. You didn't do anything yet, did you?16:53
entetadzik: me too, I usually use that, not the gtk one16:53
enteeh, thrice` >.<16:54
enteI'm damn tired16:54
tadzikente: nah :)16:54
entetadzik: do we already have a {git,hg} repo, possibly on {github,bitbucket}, also I guess both of us have servers so we can host them ourselves ;)16:55
tadzikente: we started something :)16:55
enteI can't remember anymore16:55
enteah, right16:55
entebesides, what kind of networks will we support?16:56
tadzikall of them! :)16:56
entewlan only? or maybe also umts and LAN?16:56
tadzikwifi and wired I think16:56
tadzikI don't have anything with umts, but if someone writes a part for it I'm ok about it16:57
enteI have an umts stick16:57
enteguess I could do that16:57
enteI dial up using wvdial right now16:57
enteneed to be logged in as root for that, I guess16:57
entenever tried anything else though16:58
tilmanadd your user to the dialout group16:58
entewhat about the ppp0 interface stuff?16:58
entecan ordinary users add interfaces?16:58
tilmanuh, dunno16:58
prologicthey can16:59
tilmani don't use my umts dongle anymore ;)16:59
prologicbut it depends16:59
prologicit's likely the binary will be suid (then users can create special devices)16:59
prologicyou asked17:00
entesuid and running as the user himself is quite different imo :P17:00
tadziksleepytime, goodnight17:00
entegood idea17:00
entedamn, and I wanted to do stuff on freebsd by now17:00
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entetomorrow then17:00
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tilmanfrinnst: re. your keyboard/mouse problems:
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