IRC Logs for #crux Tuesday, 2010-11-09

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pitillogood morning01:12
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Rotwangpitillo: morning01:16
pitilloyo Rotwang :)01:17
Romsterjaeger, get the xml docbook stuff working?01:27
Romstergood evening.01:28
tilmanhahaha docbook01:31
Romsteryeah one hell of pain that is.01:33
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pitilloRomster: ping03:18
pitillogood morning jue03:18
Romsterpitillo, pong03:18
pitilloRomster: is there any problem with your domain? I can't get midori's source03:18
pitillobetter said, with your webserver03:18
Romsteryeah i noticed it's sshing fine but web server seems out, sent a message to the admin03:19
pitillooka, do you have a mirror to get it?03:20
Romsterit's not hosted here, plus midori is now off sourceforge if you do a ports -u in the 2.7 branch03:20
pitilloummm I'm on 2.6 atm, I'll check 2.7 tree03:20
pitillosorry then03:20
Romsterunless your still on 2.6?03:21
Romstershould i still be pushing to 2.6?03:21
pitilloyes, I'm getting 2.6 tree in the wm850503:21
pitilloI don't think so03:21
pitilloI'll get that port from 2.7. Thank you.03:21
Romsterif anything else is a issue like libdvdread etc i'll get i t on a mirror i wasn't expecting this host to go down this much03:22
pitilloI hadn't notice it until now03:23
Romsterit's not off my home server thats starting to be more reliable than this host is :/03:23
pitillothat sounds hard03:23
Romster ok some reason that works.03:26
Romsterwhat gives.03:26
Romsteryou could probably use crux 2.7 safely on crux 2.6 opt and core.03:27
Romstercontrib 2.7*03:27
pitilloyes, I think so too, but atm I'll try to don't mix. I don't really need 2.7 ports atm (making test under ARM and native builds are a little pain...)03:28
pitilloI'm not sure that midori will be built fine in this machine, I'm making a test before start making cross-build for it03:29
Romsterit should if webkit goes fine.03:30
Romsterdepinst webkit did break before glib was added to vala03:30
pitillonot with this, I cross compiled webkit finally03:31
Romsterin the 2.7 tree. if it's ok i might just push webit and midori to 2.6 branch03:31
pitillovala is built with glib support here, but native build eats lot of ram in this machine and may be I need to make a bigger swap to finish midori's build03:31
pitilloI think 2.6 could be closed to push people to update to 2.7, btw, I'm not sure if this is a good movement03:32
Romsteronly thing that went to insane levels of space at compile time was what i tried to build the other day wasn't it virtualbox or something.03:32
Romsterah no might of been kvm03:33
pitilloit was qemu03:33
Romstermidori built fine wthin 2GB03:33
Romsterah that one yeah.03:33
pitillowell, we are talking about a 300Mhz with 128Mb, ARM wm8505 cpu...03:33
Romsternot a very big file but boy does it chew cpu for compiling.03:33
Romstereek it be best to build in a chroot for that arch03:34
Romsterthen pkgadd the final result.03:34
pitilloyes, that's how we are doing that, cross-compilations with a little framework03:34
pitillowe are managing cross-built packages with pkg-get too, to avoid native builds in little machines03:35
Romstermakes sense03:35
pitillobut day by day, ARM is getting stronger, and newer CPU's (around 1Ghz) with more ram (512MB and above) will make good native builds03:35
Romsterso what are you using them systems for?03:35
pitillothe wm8505 is a little and cheap netbook03:35
pitillothere are other machines where we are running CRUX too (handhelds and HP jornada 72x)03:36
pitilloI think frinns_t and tilma_n are running CRUX in their sheeva/guru toys too03:36
Romsterok so you just net surf with midori?03:37
Romsteron hem03:37
pitilloyeah, I hope so, using dillo atm, but it's smaller and not as powerfull as midori/netsurf (webkit based web browsers)03:37
Romsteryeah i'm quite impressed with midori03:38
pitilloit's getting bigger bit by bit and it seems to be a good (small) web browser03:38
Romstermidori itself doens't eat much cpu to compile.03:38
pitillowell, it depends really... on a 1ghz or powerfull it doesn't eat so much... in a 300mhz you can make an idea about what compile means there03:39
pitillolot of patience with native builds03:40
Romsteri've compiled a tool chain on a p3 before it took 2 entire days.03:40
Romsternow i can do it on my system in like 4 hours.03:40
pitillohere I haven't spent more than 10h to make a native build... (I think an old gtk version)03:41
Romsterthat's with bootstrapping it.03:41
pitillohere (at server's work) it takes around 1 hour to build the ARM crosstools03:41
pitillo*work's server03:42
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Romsterdon't know how big that is but i gather it's less effort than the x86 arch is.03:42
pitilloI think it's near it (this toolchain is based on glibc too)03:43
Romsterso why not uclibc? or does that create too many problems?03:43
pitilloI don't know, never tested it. we are trying to use CRUX's toolchain (and we got it working fine)03:44
pitilloatm using 2.6 version (gcc 4.5 and glibc 2.12 give a big battle...)03:45
Romsteri could imagine alot of hair pulling in frustration03:45
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pitilloI didn't spend too much time on it03:47
pitilloplaying with toolchains and more for this arch, is really hard (for me atm, may be one day I'll have the knowledge needed...)03:48
Romstergive crosstool-ng a try.03:48
pitilloah, another thing not related to this, I forgot to tell you about this morning03:48
pitilloyeah, we did, but I really prefer to make it from scratch... it gives more knowledge03:49
pitillothere are lot of alternatives to get ARM toolchains over there...03:49
Romsterit could be a start.03:50
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pitilloabout your idea to make automated tests in your chroot, I don't know if I told you about some time ago, but we use prt-clean, a little script to make snapshots about installed packages, then it can be put in another script to automate tests03:50
Romsterhmm don't think i've seen that.03:51
Romsteri do have a clean target that removes all but core ports in the chroot.03:51
pitillowell, midori is built, now I need to try vnc connection to home and check if it works...03:51
pitillothat sounds like prt-clean then03:51
pitillobut without snapshots (not sure if this can be interesting, may be with a clean core is enought)03:52
Romsteri've been thinking of some way to easily setup multiple chroots i currently have a SBPREFIX=$HOME/.safe-build03:53
Romsterso i can make as many as i need.03:53
pitilloyes, something similar, but using snapshots you can keep other ports if you need them and don't mess with other tests...03:53
Romsterthe thing i'm not too keen on is the left over untracked files. from font caches etc.03:54
Romsteri've been thinking even if that file is touched in the build() function of the Pkgfile and then the post-install can write to that it would clean itself up on a pkgrm.03:54
pitillowell, that's hard, but I don't know if that clean is needed (I don't know if it will be affect other ports, I think it doesn't)03:54
Romsterwhat can affect other ports is not removing all the packages before doing a depinst on another port.03:55
pitilloyes, but because you let libs and headers in your system (pc files too, used by pkg-config to link with them)03:56
Romsteras sometimes a needed port has another port to link to where it may not be listed on the depends on line. that wont get compiled in on another deptree.03:56
pitilloI don't think other little files like fonts.cache is used to get dependencies from them03:56
Romsterno but they do clutter the system up a little.03:57
Romsteri like that pkg-not that sepen made03:57
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Romsterthat was another idea if a file is shared between more than one package then some file count for each of those ports is needed then once the last port is removed it'll go to 0 count then it's safe to remove the cache file. but that's going a bit far for crux but i'm debating on testing that in my own stuff.03:58
Romsterbut getting back to the automated building03:59
pitillowell, really it makes the enviroment dirty, but I don't think they can give builds problems04:00
Romster that's the code to my safe-build clean04:02
Romsterit could be a bit neater but it works.04:02
Romsteri could just use pkg-not /usr/lib | rm -r after a safe-build clean04:03
Romsterto be sure.04:03
pitilloI think we only have the safe-env pre-packaged source (mikeux hasn't the development enviroment)04:03
pitillowell, prt-get remove (or pkgrm) will take care of those files sure (the problem begins with non-tracked files)04:03
Romstermine is made from the built packages off the core on iso.04:03
Romsteri'll see what i come up with, it be nice for a buildbot.04:04
pitillowell, not sure about the buildbot (it can be interesting, but think about that all maintainers should use a clean enviroment to develop their ports)04:04
Romsterthey should but not all do, i do that's why anyone rarely ever see any issues.04:05
pitillomay me it could be great for contrib, where new people come and it can give a point of trust there04:05
pitilloI think core/opt are maintained in a chroot enviroment (at least the most opt ports)04:06
Romsterit be good to catch errors for bumping a port that others depend on. and it it breaks to many to revert that change and collaborate with all the affected ports maintainers on how to solve the problem.04:06
Romsterit would avoid the hidden broken build ports.04:06
pitillowell, that's a good reason to think about that04:07
Romsterpossibly ones that some maintainer hasn't looked at in a while or even has time too.04:07
pitillomay be that opinion isn't shared by all maintainers04:07
Romsterin any case i'd use it myself to make sure my ports arn't breaking.04:08
Romsterit's just fun to do.04:08
pitilloyes, here the same (but I have my development machine down near 6 months now...)04:08
Romsteroh, you need a new machine?04:09
Romsteror is it remotely located and you need someone to give it a boot <<04:11
* Romster remembers how i locked myself out of a server remotely before.04:11
pitillowell, it's fun and it gives a "plus" to ports built inside (and maintainers too) IMHO04:16
pitillowell, it's an old computer (p4 with 512ram...) but I have powered it down at my parent's house. I'm thinking to pick it up again and put on another place to go ahead maintaining/developing there instead of doing here at work (but here is really faster, that's why I finished owering it down)04:17
Romsterah k04:25
Romsteri only upgraded because my old motherboard started to die.04:26
Romsterthen i went while i'm at it i may as well build something that will last a good while.04:26
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Romsterpitillo, nameservers been altered on the zone it'll work later on my site.04:57
pitilloRomster: perfect, thank you04:58
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jaegerRomster: yeah, it was working after I upgraded docbook-xsl, just wondered if there was anyone who actually KNEW it08:14
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cruxbot[opt.git/2.7]: dovecot: update to 2.0.710:26
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Romsterjaeger, all i know is it transforms xml using a xsl stylesheet to html and other formats, but you probably know that much about it already.19:46
jaegerIt's not too tough to use a port someone has made or to copy one but I just wondered if anyone really KNEW it19:48
Romstermaybe the developer of it19:51
Romsteri barely understand how them dtd rules work.19:51
jaegerheh, perhaps so19:52
Romsterthe LFS guys might have some insight since there howto is pretty clean.19:52
Romsterunless they also copied it from another distro.19:52
Romsteri'd try my luck around them if your keen to learn it.19:53
Romsterif you do find any good details, i'd be keen on seeing it too.19:53
jaegerwill keep that in mind19:53
jaegernot sure yet if I want to or not, heh19:54
Romsteri'd only pursue it if you really need to know.19:57
jaegerthat's how I'm leaning right now19:58
Romsterman time flies when ya busy, be back after work.20:00
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andariusgreetings and salutations21:15
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