IRC Logs for #crux Friday, 2011-01-07

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entejue: why are mutt configfiles installed in /usr/etc?06:53
enteis there a packaging policy on /etc vs /usr/etc?06:53
teK_yep06:53
juecause that's the right place for user-level progs06:54
thrice` /usr/etc/  is typica for user-level, but some people cheat and go to /etc anyway ;)06:54
teK_http://crux.nu/Main/Handbook2-7-Package06:54
enteah06:55
entethanks06:55
teK_I dislike /usr/etc (too?) :)06:55
enteI like a /usr/etc if people follow it strictly06:55
entewhy is libexec deprecated?06:56
cruxbot[opt.git/2.7]: aspell-en: update to 7.1-007:12
cruxbot[opt.git/2.7]: cups: update to 1.4.607:12
cruxbot[opt.git/2.7]: mpg123: update to 1.13.107:12
jueteK_: the big benefit of having a /usr/etc is that you don't need rejmerge stuff you never will edit, like Muttrc07:17
teK_okay07:18
Romsteronly time you don't use /usr/etc is if it's a daemon service.07:58
tilmancrashing cruxbot...08:24
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-xf86-input-mouse: updated to 1.6.0.08:25
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-libice: updated to 1.0.7.08:25
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-bdftopcf: updated to 1.0.3.08:25
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-bigreqsproto: updated to 1.1.1.08:25
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-cf-files: updated to 1.0.4.08:25
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thrice`:-)08:36
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cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-font-util: updated to 1.2.0.09:15
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-libxaw: updated to 1.0.8.09:15
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-libsm: updated to 1.2.0.09:15
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-compositeproto: updated to 0.4.2.09:15
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-damageproto: updated to 1.2.1.09:15
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-fixesproto: updated to 4.1.2.09:15
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-makedepend: updated to 1.0.3.09:15
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-randrproto: updated to 1.3.2.09:15
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-xtrans: updated to 1.2.6.09:15
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-xf86-video-geode: updated to 2.11.11.09:15
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-xproto: updated to 7.0.20.09:15
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-font-adobe-100dpi: updated to 1.0.3.09:22
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-font-adobe-75dpi: updated to 1.0.3.09:22
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-font-adobe-utopia-100dpi: updated to 1.0.4.09:22
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-font-adobe-utopia-75dpi: updated to 1.0.4.09:22
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-font-adobe-utopia-type1: updated to 1.0.4.09:22
thrice`poor cruxbot09:23
thrice`so much work for a friday afternoon09:23
ente:D09:24
tilmanmore coming09:39
mike_kdo we have another a way to identify the crux version besides calling /usr/bin/crux?09:42
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-font-arabic-misc: updated to 1.0.3.09:49
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-font-bh-100dpi: updated to 1.0.3.09:49
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-font-bh-75dpi: updated to 1.0.3.09:49
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-font-bh-lucidatypewriter-100dpi: updated to 1.0.3.09:49
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-font-bh-lucidatypewriter-75dpi: updated to 1.0.3.09:49
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-font-bh-type1: updated to 1.0.3.09:49
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-font-bitstream-100dpi: updated to 1.0.3.09:49
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-font-bitstream-75dpi: updated to 1.0.3.09:49
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-font-bitstream-speedo: updated to 1.0.2.09:49
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-font-bitstream-type1: updated to 1.0.3.09:49
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-font-cronyx-cyrillic: updated to 1.0.3.09:49
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-font-cursor-misc: updated to 1.0.3.09:49
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-font-daewoo-misc: updated to 1.0.3.09:49
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-font-dec-misc: updated to 1.0.3.09:49
teK_mike_k: I don't think so. Why?09:51
tilmanxorg=fucking grunt job09:51
thrice`tilman, but our xorg is so nice and simple :p (and awesome, etc)09:52
tilmani neglected xorg updates for a while, and the backlog was kind of large ;)09:52
mike_kteK_: some packages do things like this http://pastebin.com/PSKx3kA3 in their sources to get distro version for whatever crazy reazon09:53
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-font-screen-cyrillic: updated to 1.0.4.09:54
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-font-sony-misc: updated to 1.0.3.09:54
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-font-sun-misc: updated to 1.0.3.09:54
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-font-winitzki-cyrillic: updated to 1.0.3.09:54
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg-font-xfree86-type1: updated to 1.0.4.09:54
cruxbot[xorg.git/2.7]: xorg: updated to 7.6.09:54
tilmanphew. done.09:54
teK_\o/09:54
mike_kyeah, thanks god tilman still takes care!09:54
teK_mike_k: I remember creating those files so that the oracle installer would stop complaining09:55
teK_but it'd be a nobrainer to include a /etc/crux-release filesystem09:55
teK_+in09:55
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frinnstou, loads o'updates09:57
thrice`I think lennart is trying to a distro-global-world-ending file somewhere09:57
thrice`for systemd09:57
tilmanoh, poettering09:59
thrice`yes, sorry :>10:00
tilmanwtf @ that code mike_k linked to10:00
mike_kteK_: this case is for xbmc (not sure if it is essential), but having those etc file could help10:00
lennarti was confused for a second there ;)10:00
tilmanthey are popen'ing "cat /etc/blah"10:00
tilmanto read the contents10:00
tilmanW T F10:00
mike_ktilman: xbmc10:00
mike_kyeah, that is strange as for me-non-programmer10:01
tilmanah okay10:02
tilmanthey are trying N times to create that pipe10:02
tilmanwith the fallback being lsb_release10:02
tilmanstill questionable though :D10:03
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mike_kanyone knows how /etc/arch-release or similar file on other systems looks like?10:10
teK_haha trick-question :D10:11
entesystem dependent :P10:32
mike_kjust like version number, or contains a distro name too...11:01
entedepends11:01
entehttp://paste.xinu.at/TiEX/ <- ubuntu11:01
ente/etc/lsb_release11:01
ente/etc/debian_version just contains the version name11:02
entefor instance 3.1 for sarge11:02
mike_kente: thanks11:02
cruxbot[opt.git/2.7]: [notify] php: update to 5.3.511:02
cruxbot[opt.git/2.7]: php-fcgi: update to 5.3.511:02
cruxbot[opt.git/2.7]: mod_php: update to 5.3.511:02
cruxbot[opt.git/2.7]: php-mysql: update to 5.3.511:02
entecrux has /usr/bin/crux which is again different11:02
enteslackware iirc has "Slackware version 13.1" in /etc/slackware-version11:03
enteubuntu has a /etc/debian_version too, but it usually just says sid11:03
entewhateverdebiantestingiscalled/sid11:03
mike_kthan I just don't get how xbmc devs rely on that array of files11:04
entemike_k: http://paste.xinu.at/irm/python <- this is what gajim uses to determine the distro(-version)11:07
enteIMO that's something the distro should set during ./configure11:08
entebut nobody asked for MO11:08
thrice`:P11:09
thrice`yeah, stfu11:09
jaegercurse you, sources.redhat.com11:10
deus_exDoes anyone know of a program that does the opposite of mp3splt, i.e join multiple mp3 files?11:54
deus_exaudacity chokes at 20 ;(11:55
thrice`cat ?11:55
thrice`I thought cat 1.mp3 2.mp3 > 3.mp3     worked11:55
deus_exfor 56 files, I suppose it could work...11:56
deus_exit is an audiobook, I'd like to make it one file.11:57
tilmannot sure you can just concatenate them11:58
tilmanif you do, you might want to check for audible artefacts11:58
tilman(at the former file boundaries)11:58
deus_extilman: google search suggests that you are right, cat does make one file, but it needs major/minor repair afterwards.12:01
deus_exI do have windows VM somewhere, if I don't figure out linux native way to do it.12:04
deus_exLuckily, drag-n-drop works betwwen VM and my machine.12:04
deus_ex$deity bless Vmware :)12:04
deus_exAnyone else tried this:12:06
deus_exhttp://www.webupd8.org/2010/11/alternative-to-200-lines-kernel-patch.html12:06
deus_exMaybe it is placebo effect, but deadbeef stutters no more when I compile something :)12:09
mike_kdeus_ex: what is the exact option to get /sys/fs/cgroup/cpu? the last part of the path does not exist here12:22
deus_exI added this to rc.local12:25
deus_exmount -t cgroup cgroup /sys/fs/cgroup/cpu -o cpu mkdir -m 0777 /sys/fs/cgroup/cpu/user12:25
mike_k /sys/fs/cgroup is empty here (12:26
deus_exzgrep CGROUP /proc/config.gz12:29
deus_exhttp://paste.lisp.org/+2JCW12:29
thrice`you need it in the kernel, and a 2.6.36 or higher version12:30
thrice`(or a patch applied to pre 2.6.36)12:30
mike_kI have half of the options enabled. should read that thread and recompile once again. really tired recompilling the same version after a hardware change.12:31
deus_exI enabled it in 2.6.36, just reused .config with 2.6.3712:32
deus_exthat 200-line patch that this is suppposed to subsitute should be merged in 2.6.38, iirc.12:33
deus_exsubstitute*12:34
thrice`alot of people think it's crap, I think, so who knows :p12:34
deus_exLinus likes it, so... :) who knows what will they make out of it until 2.6.38..12:36
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pedjaLinus did say "[...]enjoy the calm sanity while it lasts." ;)12:39
pedjabtw, anyone using swapfile (as opposed to swap partition)?12:42
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mike_kmm, is swap somehow deprecated? P12:44
pedjai can't mount it from fstab (' is a directory' error), but it mounts fine manually, with 'swapon $foo'12:44
tilmanit was deprecated by insanely low ram prices ;)12:44
mike_kkinda. but I left it to try hibernate one again12:45
Rotwangand /me is still using his box with 1GB of RAM12:46
pedjaI thought 4gb of ram is enough, but after OOM killer episode that I had, I added 2gb swap file, just in case...12:46
mike_kpedja: who was killed?12:49
pedjaeverything but xorg and FF.xfce, pidgin, vmware... gone12:50
mike_kwhat have you done to trigger that? I'm enjoying this new box and don't want same thing to happen.12:52
pedjaI think I compiled...something....boost or something like that...12:55
pedjamike_k: new box?congrats :)12:55
pedjait was few months ago12:56
mike_kpedja: thanks. so long to old laptop.12:56
pedjayou have a new laptop now?12:57
mike_know have tmpfs for pkgmk and ccache. I guess 2.5GB is enough for any single compile12:57
mike_kpedja: just plain simple desktop with lappy's hdd.12:58
mike_kanyone using SSD btw?12:59
pedjajaeger, I think.12:59
pedjaI had to increase tmpfs from 2 to 2.5gb for gcc update recently, so I think you should be ok.13:01
frinnst<- intel x25m13:02
frinnstand yes, it is as good as you think/hope it is13:02
tilmanalso x25m, also happy with it :)13:03
pedja80gb x25m is ~170E here...13:07
pedjax25v, also 80gb, is almost 200.what is the difference?13:09
tilmanno idea, but the v series is the newest of the three afaik13:13
tilman(worthless info of the day)13:14
frinnst"v" is for "value" or something like that13:14
tilmani thought so, but why would the x25v be more expensive than the m?13:14
frinnstits not supposed to be13:15
pedjaexactly.13:15
frinnst:D13:15
pedjait is 'newer' :)13:15
pedjaat least that is how IT market works in this part of the world...13:16
tilmanyou could compare the kind of flash chips the x25m and x25v use13:19
tilmanmaybe one is MCC and one is SCC13:19
tilman(not sure i got the names right :D)13:19
mike_kany problems using them on / & /home so far?13:24
tilmanno13:40
pedjaboth M and V use MLC, but no mention of 80gb version for V at Intel site...13:43
pedjaso, it must be very fresh.13:43
tilmanjust get the x25m :)13:44
pedjaI will, I will :)13:45
pedjamy friend has a couple of them in RAID at work, they are 'fscking awesome', he says :)13:46
pedjawhat fs do you put on them?ext4?13:49
tilmani put a btrfs on it14:27
jaegerpedja: I use 1.8GB tmpfs and gcc builds16:16
jaegermike_k: my SSDs are OCZ - vertex (indilinx) and vertex 2 (sandforce 1200)16:17
jaegerboth are great, the vertex 2 is awesome16:17
pedjajaeger: I know. I haven't tried to build gcc lately, but I might, just to see what happens :)16:19
mike_kI am in doubt about wear-out. even if pkgmk would live out of the SSD... there might be few daemons liking to write stuff in /var16:20
mike_kwould be great if .ccache could live on SSD for a few years )16:21
jaegermike_k: anandtech's had some articles about that in the past and said something like if you write 20GB per day it would still take quite a few years to break the drive16:21
jaegerI don't remember the exact numbers, though, sorry16:21
mike_kdo you make any special fs partiotioning to avoid that?16:22
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jaegerI didn't do anything special16:26
mike_knice to know16:27
jaegerI have no swap, though, for what that's worth16:27
jaeger /dev/sda1   *        2048      264191      131072   83  Linux16:27
jaeger/dev/sda2          264192   125045423    62390616   83  Linux16:27
jaegerjust /boot and /16:28
mike_kum, yeah. swap can live on separate low-speed hdd just in case16:28
mike_kjaeger: fs?16:28
jaegerext416:29
jaegeryour only choices for proper TRIM support (as far as I know) are ext4, btrfs, nilfs16:29
mike_kack16:29
mike_kAFAIK, there was some changes in newer SSD. like thet won't need TRIM16:30
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jaegerwouldn't surprise me, or at least some better way to do it... but my SSDs aren't the latest hot stuff :)16:32
mike_kthey (at least Sandforce) do more funny stuff: compressing and repositioning data on the fly16:35
mike_kdunno if that is a cleaner way16:35
jaegerno idea16:36
entesomeone recommended intel ssds16:43
jaegerthe x25m are really good ones, too, comparable to the sandforce 1200, more or less16:44
jaegerI simply bought OCZ because it was on sale at the time :) I was originally going to buy an intel x25-m16:44
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tilmani took some care to align the first partition on erase block size16:54
tilmannot sure it was really needed16:54
jaegerit's automatic now, seems like16:54
jaegerI didn't have to do it manually16:54
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profilIs there any usb installation image?17:32
teK_the handbook should have something wrt this topic17:33
profilteK_: I couldn't find anything about that in the handbook..17:34
teK_ftp://code-monkey.de/pub/crux/crux-2.7/usbdisk/17:34
profilteK_: thanks!17:34
teK_np17:35
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frinnstor use isohybrid on the image..18:08
frinnstits a bit simpler18:08
frinnsthttp://syslinux.zytor.com/wiki/index.php/Doc/isolinux18:09
profilhow can it be more simple? :)18:09
profilcan't I just dd dd usbimage and then boot from usb?18:09
frinnsti assumed you had the regular iso :>18:10
frinnstyes18:10
profilahh, okay18:10
profilIt will be fun testing crux, it's my first time getting in touch with crux :)18:11
teK_have fun18:13
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Romstermust check my xorg see how far out of date it is it was newer than crux's for a while.19:41
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